Kipling Haunts Obama's Afghan War
The agenda was top-heavy with RAND speakers, and the thinking was decidedly “inside the box” — so much so, that I found myself repeating a verse from Kipling, who recognized the dangers of imperialism, to remind me of the real world:
It is not wise for the Christian white
To hustle the Asian brown;
For the Christian riles
And the Asian smiles
And weareth the Christian down.
At the end of the fight
Lies a tombstone white
With the name of the late deceased;
And the epitaph drear,
A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East.
With a few notable exceptions, the RAND event offered conventional wisdom to a fare-thee-well. There was a certain poetic justice that President Carter’s national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski, who has chaired RAND’s Middle East Advisory Board, was chosen to keynote the proceedings.
As national security adviser under President Carter, Brzezinski thought it a good idea to mousetrap the Soviets into their own Vietnam debacle by baiting them into invading Afghanistan in 1979, the war that was the precursor to the great-power quagmire in Afghanistan now, three decades later.
On Thursday, Brzezinski disclosed that he had advised the Bush/Cheney administration to invade Afghanistan in 2001, but insisted that he told Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld that the U.S. military should not stay “as an alien force” once American objectives were achieved.
Exuding his customary confidence, Brzezinski first addressed — and ruled out — several “No’s,” the things that the U.S. must not do:
-Withdrawal is
“not in the range of policy options.”
-The U.S. must not repeat the Soviet experience in going it alone, but
rather must “use all our leverage” to make NATO’s commitment stick.
-The U.S. should not neglect the need to include
“Islamic” groups in the coalition.
Brzezinski offered a much longer litany of “Yeses” — but his list was disappointingly bereft of new ideas. Indeed, it was notable only for his insistence that the U.S. ought to be more actively engaged in promoting a north-south pipeline through Afghanistan to the Indian Ocean. He said, for example, that India needs access to the resources of central Asia, an area especially rich in natural gas, as well as oil.
Without batting an eyelash, Brzezinski noted that within three months the war in Afghanistan will be the “longest war in U.S. history,” and warned that the United States could be “bogged down there for another decade or so.” At the same time, he argued, the world impact of an early U.S. departure “would be utterly devastating.”
Quagmire, anyone?
Questioned about growing opposition to the war, he conceded condescendingly that “public fatigue” is understandable, but expressed confidence that adoption of his recommended policies would be “persuasive” enough to turn public opinion around.
Outsiders Impinge
One must give RAND credit for inviting a few outsiders whose remarks came closer to reflecting reality. Former national intelligence officer for the Middle East, Paul Pillar, and Harvard professor Stephen Walt offered observations that, though eminently sensible, somehow seemed oddly out of step — “out of the box,” as we say in Washington.
Pillar asked if what the U.S. was doing in Afghanistan is enhancing the security of the American people. Are the costs justified, given the amount of change and the “direction of change” that U.S. policies can be realistically expected to produce?
Even if the U.S. and NATO effort is, as they say, “properly resourced,” large parts of Afghanistan will remain open to the Taliban, and perhaps al Qaeda — not to mention alternative locales like Somalia and Yemen.
And then there are the counterproductive consequences.
It is a given, said Pillar, that sending more troops perceived as occupation forces will — more than any other step — bring more and more recruits to the Taliban. As for the cost, Pillar cited the recent congressional testimony by Stephen Biddle, a defense policy fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations.
Biddle, though supportive of Gen. Stanley McChrystal’s counterinsurgency approach, said it would incur “Iraq-war-scale cost for three to five years.” Pillar asked if that kind of anticipated cost was worth what he suggested would be “at best, a slight reduction in the danger from terrorism.” Whether the game is worth the candle is, he said, the calculation that the President has to make.
No Alternative?
Stephen Walt picked up on Pillar’s themes, pleading for a realistic assessment of benefits against cost. As for U.S. troop casualties, 850 have already been killed. At a rate of 50 deaths a month, five more years would bring 3,000 dead — not to mention the many thousands more who have been wounded.
And the longer the United States stays, the more it looks like a foreign occupier and the more various Afghan factions are pushed together by giving them a common enemy. Plus, al Qaeda will have a safe haven — in Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, even Europe — no matter the degree of “success” the U.S. achieves in Afghanistan.
Walt opined that it is the epitome of hubris for the U.S. to take on the monumental task of “social engineering” the 200 million people in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and that the chances of succeeding are “not great.” He questioned the disproportionate attention in resources directed toward Afghanistan when there is little reason to send more U.S. troops, except for the fact that there are already U.S. troops there with too much to handle.
Walt pointed also to a significant “opportunity cost” in the drain on President Barack Obama’s time, noting there are lots of other problems — domestic as well as foreign — that crave his attention.
Remarkably, among virtually all the speakers there was broad consensus that Brzezinski’s first No-No would prevail — that is, that no U.S. troop withdrawal will be in the cards. Walt put it bluntly, saying the President “painted himself into a corner” last spring and would probably not be able to change course to address “one of the world’s most intractable problems” in a sensible way. The Harvard professor predicted that in just a few years the Obama administration will look back with huge regret on how badly it erred.
The Cato Institute’s Christopher Preble took strong issue with the notion that “a country like ours would have no alternative” to escalation. He, too, asked if adding to the U.S. presence in Afghanistan is essential to U.S. national security. Or, Preble wondered, has the conflict there simply become an interest in itself — “that we must win this war because it is the war we are in?” He, too, gave U.S. policy makers a failing grade on “the cost-benefit test.”
RAND and the Establishment
The biggest surprise for me came in the remarks of well-respected diplomat James Dobbins, director of RAND’s International Security and Defense Policy Center. Dobbins provided no supporting data or reasoning to support what seemed — to me, at least — to be scare tactics. His words were the kind that a diplomat would use in selling a policy aimed at avoiding the worst.
Addressing the possibility of U.S. departure from Afghanistan, Dobbins predicted a long list of calamities: civil war (as if one isn’t already under way), the involvement not only of Pakistan but of Iran, Russia and China; millions of refugees, widespread disease, negative economic growth, increased extremism and use of Afghanistan for more terrorism.
As for the administration’s public posture, Dobbins pointed to a need to “expand the explanation for our presence in Afghanistan,” so that the rationale will appear more commensurate with an increased commitment” — read, more troops justified by more rhetorical flourishes.
Although Dobbins performed yeoman service, for example, in securing Iranian cooperation in setting up the Karzai government in Kabul, his experience with Asian insurgencies appears paper-thin. I was painfully reminded of this by his gratuitous remark that “in Vietnam we had neutralized the Viet Cong” (sic), and only when the North Vietnamese came into the fray, and the U.S. commitment slackened, did we lose that war.
With that faux history as background, it is less surprising that Dobbins would tout, as he did, the “Powell doctrine” of overwhelming force and advocate for a still deeper U.S. commitment in Afghanistan, to be accompanied by a more persuasive rationale to explain it.
Professor Walt pointed out that, applying the insurgent-to-population ratio Dobbins has used for Bosnia, 600,000 troops would be needed to defeat the insurgents in Afghanistan.
RAND veteran and former U.S. ambassador to Afghanistan, Zalmay Khalilzad, addressed the public perception problem regarding the Afghan war with unusual candor: “People don’t believe we know what we’re doing.” Still, endorsing the Brzezinski No-No dictum, Khalilzad said that “no serious person” would contemplate U.S. withdrawal thus enabling “extremism” to prevail.
Khalilzad argued for playing to U.S. strengths with a “purchasing power” approach — the United States comes up with the money to pay potential or actual insurgents more than they earn fighting for the Taliban. And he stressed that the U.S. needs to expand Afghan forces.
Speaking last, Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin, D-Michigan, also emphasized the need for building up Afghan forces, as the administration considers increasing the U.S. troop presence in Afghanistan. Levin spoke of the need for a 400,000-strong Afghan army and police force by 2012, trained by U.S. and NATO specialists.
Training the Indigenous: Panacea or Mirage?
I am reminded of what former CENTCOM commander, General John Abizaid, described to the Senate Armed Services Committee three years ago as a “major change” in the Iraq war — namely, new emphasis on training Iraqis.
The final returns are not yet in for Iraq, but in my experience this is almost always an unfruitful exercise, as many of us learned from Vietnam. Been there; done that; should have known that.
Three months after John Kennedy's death, Defense Secretary Robert McNamara sent President Lyndon Johnson a draft of a major speech McNamara planned to give on defense policy. What follows is a segment of an audiotape of a conversation between the two on Feb. 25, 1964:
Johnson: Your speech is good, but I wonder if you shouldn't find two minutes to devote to Vietnam.
McNamara: The problem is what to say
about it.
Johnson: I'll tell you what to say about it. I would say we
have a commitment to Vietnamese freedom. We could pull out there; the
dominoes would fall and that part of the world would go to the Communists.
... Nobody really understands what is out there. ... Our purpose is
to train [the South Vietnamese] people, and our training's going good.
McNamara: All right, sir.
But the Vietnamese training wasn't "going good.” Before long, half a million American troops were in Vietnam trying to save South Vietnam’s government.
It is a forlorn hope that unwelcome occupation troops can train indigenous soldiers and police to fight against their own brothers and sisters. That the British also seem to have forgotten these lessons, along with some of Kipling’s cautionary poetry about the risks of imperialism, is really no excuse.
If President Obama is depending on the RAND folks and embedded neo-con pundits like the Washington Post’s David Ignatius, we are in trouble. In Friday’s column Ignatius appeals for more troops “to continue the mission,” as the President and his advisers attempt to figure out what the mission should be.
As I sat at the RAND event on Thursday, I could not help wondering what would be the judgments of my former colleagues in the intelligence community on these key issues? Specifically, what might a National Intelligence Estimate on Prospects for Afghanistan say?
NIEs are the most authoritative genre of analytical product, embodying key judgments on important national security issues. They are coordinated throughout the 16-agency intelligence community and then signed by the Director of National Intelligence in his statutory capacity as chief intelligence adviser to the President.
An NIE can, and should, play an important role. An estimate on Iran’s nuclear program, for example, given to President George W. Bush in November 2007, helped derail plans by Vice President Dick Cheney and White House adviser Elliott Abrams for war on Iran. The most senior U.S. military officers had realized what a debacle that would be and insisted that this NIE’s key judgments be made public.
They anticipated, correctly, that public knowledge that Iran had stopped working on developing a nuclear warhead in 2003 (and had not resumed such work) would take the wind out of Cheney’s, Abrams’, and Israel’s sails. Bush and Cheney were not pleased; but the NIE helped stop the juggernaut toward war with Iran.
There’s Always an NIE, Right?
As one of the intelligence analysts watching Vietnam in the Sixties and Seventies, I worked on several of the NIEs produced before and during the war. All too many bore this title: “Probable Reactions to Various Courses of Action With Respect to North Vietnam.”
Typical of the kinds of question the President and his advisers wanted addressed: Can we seal off the Ho Chi Minh Trail by bombing it? If the U.S. were to introduce x thousand additional troops into South Vietnam, will Hanoi quit? Okay, how about xx thousand?
Our answers regularly earned us brickbats from the White House for not being “good team players.” But in those days we labored under a strong ethos dictating that we give it to policymakers straight, without fear or favor. We had career protection for doing that. And — truth be told — we often took a perverse delight in being the only show in town without a policy agenda.
Our judgments (the unwelcome ones, anyway) were pooh-poohed as negativism; and policymakers, of course, were in no way obliged to take them into account. The point is that they continued to be sought. Not even Lyndon Johnson, nor Richard Nixon, would be likely to decide on a significant escalation without seeking the best guess of the intelligence community as to how U.S. adversaries would likely react to this or that escalatory step.
Wrong: No NIE
Here’s the thing. Would you believe there is no current National Intelligence Estimate on Afghanistan? Rather, Generals David Petraeus and Stanley McChrystal are running the show, allowing professional intelligence analysts to be mostly straphangers at planning and strategy meetings.
CIA Director Panetta, a self-described “creature of Congress,” is not going to risk putting any senior military noses out of joint by objecting, and neither is his nominal boss, Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair. And, sad to say, National Security Adviser James Jones, in deferring to the military, is serving President Obama just as poorly as Bush apparatchik Condoleezza Rice served President Bush.
How many “militants” are there in Afghanistan? How may “insurgents?” How do you draw a distinction between a militant and an insurgent? Could it be that these combatants are widely regarded, in many areas of Afghanistan, as resistance fighters? What would be the implications of that?
When the Military Does the Packaging
Forty-two years ago, my CIA analyst colleague Sam Adams was sent to Saigon to have it out with the Army intelligence officers working there for Gen. William Westmoreland. After several months of exhaustive analysis, Adams had connected a whole bunch of dots, so to speak, and concluded that there were more than twice as many Vietnamese Communists under arms as the Army would carry on its books.
Bewildered at first, Adams quickly learned that Westmoreland had instructed his intelligence staff to falsify intelligence on enemy strength, keeping the numbers low enough to promote an illusion of progress in the war. After a prolonged knock-down-drag-out fight, then-CIA Director Richard Helms decided to acquiesce in the Army’s arbitrary exclusion from its enemy aggregate total paramilitary and other armed elements numbering up to 300,000.
These categories had been included in previous estimates because they were a key part of the combat force of the Communists. The Adams/CIA best estimate was total Communist strength of 500,000. However, it was the doctored estimate that went to the President and his advisers in November 1967. That was just two months before the countrywide Communist Tet offensive in late January/early February 1968 proved — at great cost — that Adams figures were far more accurate than the Army’s.
Years later, when Adams and CBS told the story of this internal battle on “60 Minutes,” Westmoreland sued, giving Adams his day in court, literally. Subpoenaed documents and the testimony of Westmoreland’s own staff in Saigon established the accuracy of Adams’ charges, and Westmoreland withdrew his suit.
Yet, right up until his premature death at age 55, Sam Adams could not dispel the remorse he felt at not having gone public with his findings much earlier. He felt that, had he done so, the entire left half of the Vietnam memorial would not be there, because there would be no names to carve into the granite for those later years of the war.
Ellsberg’s Regret
In recent years, former Defense Department and RAND analyst Daniel Ellsberg also has expressed deep regret that he waited too long; that he did not give the press the “Pentagon Papers” history of the Vietnam War and its many deceptions until 1971.
What few people know is that a couple of patriotic truth-tellers, including Ellsberg, did reveal key facts about the war in the late Sixties, when they learned that the Johnson administration was working on plans to expand the ground war into Cambodia, Laos and right up to the Chinese border — perhaps even beyond.
In 1967, the beribboned, bemedaled Petraeus — sorry, I mean Westmoreland — addressed a joint session of Congress during which he congratulated himself on the “great progress” being made in the war. Congress was unaware that Westmoreland was on the verge of getting President Johnson to agree to sending 206,000 more troops for a widening of the war that threatened to bring China in as an active combatant.
Two key leaks to the New York Times helped put the kibosh on that escalation. The first, on March 10, 1968, revealed the 206,000 escalation figure; and the second, on March 19—by Ellsberg himself—disclosed the suppression of the CIA’s higher, accurate count of Vietnamese Communists under arms. On March 25, Johnson complained to a small gathering of confidants:
“The leaks to the New York Times hurt us. ... We have no support for the war. ... I would have given Westy the 206,000 men.”
I believe that President Obama wants to make the right decision regarding Afghanistan. For me, his poignant visit Thursday night to the U.S. Air Force Base at Dover, Delaware, to receive the coffins of 18 Americans recently killed in Afghanistan bespeaks an authentic desire to do the right thing and face into any political repercussions.
It is clear, at the same time, that he is under great military and political pressure to send more troops on what those of us who experienced Vietnam are convinced is a fool’s errand. And, sadly, his national security adviser and his intelligence chiefs seem to have gone AWOL.
For Intelligence Analyst Colleagues:
One clear lesson from what Ellsberg did in March 1968—not to mention the November 2007 NIE on Iran—is that patriotic truth telling, official or unofficial, can prevent wider wars. And so I address you all—both my erstwhile colleagues and newer analysts in the intelligence community:
Those of you working on Afghanistan and Pakistan have your own educated estimates of the prospects for success of various U.S. courses of action. If you have not been asked by now to prepare a National Intelligence Estimate, wait no longer. Keeping silent is not a responsible option.
The President should not be deprived of your views.
Perhaps it was serendipity (or maybe a reward for sitting through the entire RAND event Thursday morning), but that evening I was privileged to attend the Washington premier of an excellent documentary on Dan Ellsberg — “The Most Dangerous Man in America” — the sobriquet he earned from Henry Kissinger when Ellsberg gave the Pentagon Papers to the New York Times and other newspapers.
The film contained hard-to-watch footage of the war that took the lives of two-to-three million Vietnamese and 58,000 Americans—a very painful reminder. I was happy to see, though, that the film did pick up, from Ellsberg’s book Secrets, his decision to begin revealing important facts to the New York Times in early 1968 and help prevent a still more dangerous escalation and widening of the war in Vietnam.
Think about it, friends. And don’t look just at one another. Visualize instead all those young people from our country’s inner cities and small towns who form the pool for the de facto poverty draft that provides the bulk of U.S. troops sent off to bear the present-day White Man’s Burden.
You may be in a position to help give the President the wherewithal to resist pressure to escalate the war in Afghanistan. Let’s stop the Dover deliveries of the dead headed to tombstones white, with the names of the late deceased.
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42 Comments so far
Show AllRay McGovern wrote, "One must give RAND credit for inviting a few outsiders whose remarks came closer to reflecting reality. Former national intelligence officer for the Middle East, Paul Pillar, and Harvard professor Stephen Walt offered observations that, though eminently sensible, somehow seemed oddly out of step — “out of the box,” as we say in Washington".
That's Walt of Walt and Mearsheimer on the Israeli Lobby and there supposedly being no evidence at all for the war on Iraq having anything at all to do with OIL, I expect; and if right, then people who believed these two co-authors on the Lobby controlling the U.S., or the Lobby and Israel doing so, should be able to rest assured that they were nuts all along for believing these liars who grossly dismissed known proof, plenty of it. They claimed the war on Iraq was for Israel, which was never a believable claim, but which many conspiracy "theorists" in the U.S. used to express their hatreds; blindly.
Even if OIL isn't the sole, or top-most, reason for the war on Iraq, there was nevertheless plenty of proof that OIL was a related reason; and there was no real proof that the war was due to Israel and/or the Lobby, which instead of controlling the government of the USA, are controlled by it and its real rulers. The war is about global hegemony and empire for the U.S. and its real rulers, but oil or profitable natural resources are always related.
Now seeing that Walt is associated with RAND, I'm not surprised.
Most or all Americans refer to the Vietnam War as having lasted eight years, however there are other people who explain that it was really thirteen years and the explanation is always the same, just that some have details others lack; and the explanation for 13 years is certainly credible and surely true. If it is true, then the U.S. and NATO have another five years to go in order to begin to make the war in Afghanistan the longest one, although if we add what the U.S. did there in 1979 and the 1980s, then I guess it would already be the longest U.S. war; just that the fighting a few decades ago wasn't with troops of the U.S.
It's odd that Americans always say 8 years, while some other people well explain that it's 13 years for the war in Vietnam. It also seems as if we have to live outside of the U.S. to learn of the 13-year war that the U.S. conducted there. And with the 8-year version, Pres. JFK is often additionally said to have gotten the U.S. into comitting this war; a history or non-history that doesn't occur with the 13-year version of the history. The U.S. was certainly there before he became President, but I don't recall what kind of war it was before his presidency.
Wikipedia even gives a longer time-frame.
Quote: "The Vietnam War, also known as the Second Indochina War, was a Cold War military conflict that which may be said to have occurred in Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia from September 26, 1959[1] to April 30, 1975
...
The United States entered the war to prevent a communist takeover of South Vietnam as part of their wider strategy of containment. Military advisors arrived beginning in 1950. U.S. involvement escalated in the early 1960s, with U.S. troop levels tripling in 1961 and tripling again in 1962.[13] U.S. combat units were deployed beginning in 1965. Involvement peaked in 1968 at the time of the Tet Offensive. After this, U.S. ground forces were withdrawn as part of a policy called Vietnamization. Despite the Paris Peace Accords, signed by all parties in January 1973, fighting continued.
... The Case-Church Amendment, passed by the U.S. Congress in response to the anti-war movement, prohibited direct U.S. military involvement after August 15, 1973. U.S. military and economic aid continued until 1975.[14]".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War
The war lasted more than 13 years, 1950s to 1975, since military aid lasting to 1975 was U.S. warring, just that it then wasn't with U.S. troops. Who the U.S. has or pays to fight its wars doesn't matter; as long as the U.S. is doing this, then it is warring. Whether a company employs citizens and legal residents, or foreigners, to do the production doesn't matter in terms of whether, or not, the company is operating and producing.
The war in Afghanistan has some years to come before equaling the duration of the U.S. war on Vietnam, but this also depends on whether, or not, we consider U.S. history in Afghanistan in 1979 and the 1980s, which I think we can justly do. But then we could also consider that U.S. hegemony on Vietnam didn't end in 1975.
Otoh, the U.S. imperialist, colonialist, aristocratic, Euro-bs, ... war on aboriginal Americans still hasn't really ended, after centuries; the LONGEST U.S. war of all. The day when these aboriginal peoples will no longer be in reservation concetration camps and will have plenty or enough of their ancestral land back will commence the end of this LONG war.
Similarly for Canada.
Without batting an eyelash, Brzezinski noted that within three months the war in Afghanistan will be the “longest war in U.S. history,” and warned that the United States could be “bogged down there for another decade or so.” At the same time, he argued, the world impact of an early U.S. departure [[“would be utterly devastating.”]]
To whom?
Those pushing war want the end of America, its principles and its ability to stand in the way of global corporatism.
CORP IS BORG.
The message from McGovern to you military officers and CIA analysts is clear:
If you want to save your country from lying, stupid, arrogant and stubborn superior officers,
YOU MUST LEAK, LEAK AND LEAK!
Be a Patriot! Stop lying for your country!
Or you can keep lying, keep quiet and keep collecting your check like a loyal American Traitor.
We have already passed the "tipping-point" of Empire.
We have, and continue to bury our "sons for Imperial Glories Imagined". Our military is broken, our treasury is bankrupt, and the global economy is in the toilets.
WAKE-UP AMERICA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
.
JBPeebles states, "To clear my comment up, I'll say that McGovern's position--however badly I phrase it--is irrelevant. His reporting is the issue for me, as well as some other commentators."
Actually, several of us are contending that McGovern's "position" (collection of unstated biases, to be precise) is something that is quite important in evaluating both how he analyzes information and how he offers prescriptive advice about how to deal with problems. In the present case, McGovern seems to be in line with the approach of the Democratic Central Committee, which, roughly stated, is:
He's our guy, so we can't oppose him.
Yes, certainly, McGovern does provide a lot of useful information--he used to be one of my favorite writers, as a matter of fact--but his deferential attitude does color his writing and influences our perception of the facts and conclusions he presents.
I will just repeat my caution to be careful when you read his writing and try to spot these assumptions when they occur. By the way, this is the general advice that writing students receive anyway; it's just good advice for evaluating the information and arguments you encounter.
I think this has been a very worthwhile discussion thread.
PENTAGONS master plan revealed on cspan in the first hour
Sunday nov 1. Afghanistan will become the worlds largest
military base rivaled only by the Iraq strategic community.
The stream of pentagon/corporate/"conservative" mouth-
pieces has swelled to a torrent. The 2010 horserace has
begun in earnest as the party that Destroyed the american
economy positions itself to blame the leftwingers for the
14 trillion dollar RAPE. IT IS the refined use of the
concept of CONTROL FRAUD THEORY wherein corporate headquarters,
executive branch manipulations and pentagon intelligence
machinations combine to spoon feed the new reality to american
consumers, wholly based on the MASSIVE lie that is AL QAEDA.
the core of the control fraud exemplified by
the ENRON debacle is the USE of the FED to
allow insiders to manipulate the stock market;
hence buying the lows and selling the highs,
none of which are based on economic conditions,
but solely on the credit rate and money supply.
This is the crime that revolved for the last
not so few years which revolved around the
"leadership" of alan greenspan...the MEDIOCRE
clarinet player. A faux economic theory actuated
and played by insiders, particularly jp morgan and
goldman sachs. Consolidation of everything and anything
will follow as they continue to centralize control of
MEDIA so the MIGHTY WURLITZER continues to play the
tune of the mil indus media complex.
The highest longterm unemployment since the last
depression will naturally play well into the
need to expand the us military to strategically
contain and surround all potential rivals...
china and russia are the targets, but the straw
man al qaeda is the screen that obscures the reality.
To resurrect a Freudian term that evaporated with the bathwater, I'm the LAST person to defend the Freudian premise that the "well-adjusted" personality is an achievement exemplifying the highest civic virtue, and indeed is the keystone of civilization.
But, as astute commenters have noted in this informative and lively comments thread, McGovern remains one of a group of analysts who can't or won't cut an umbilicus of emotional-- or at least extra-rational-- support for Obama.
FWIW, my hunch is that they're dogged by "pragmatic" considerations, like, "My God! This guy has THREE-AND-A-HALF years to GO! And there are some marginal positives that may eventually do some good for the Little People, so it's not ALL bad... and most importantly, what the hell is Plan B if we cross over to even the APPEARANCE of an adversarial attitude NOW? Won't we risk upsetting and sinking the boat ALTOGETHER if we stop trying to bail it out with any baby bottle that comes to hand, and try something bolder and less compromising?"
They may be unconsciously, or even quite self-consciously, trying to remain "well-adjusted" citizens. I'm not defending it, just trying to understand it.
· Yr Obd't Servant
t_g
Why is everyone putting the blame almost solely on Obama? Is the USA a democracy or is he a dictator? If the USA is a democracy, than Obama has one voice only (even if it a bit more powerful than his cabinet's or the Congress's).
In your "democracy", I guess he has to tow the line, whatever the majority wants, will happen. At this stage the majority of your politicians is bought and manipulated by powerful business interests, whose goal is to remain in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, maybe Iran and of course in all those Central Asian "...istan's".
Greetings from Down Under!
Greetings from Up Over!
Thank you for the compliment of calling our society a "democracy." It is really very kind of you.
But, unfortunately, our government is about as democratic as a game of "musical chairs." All of us get to play, sure, but the government calls the tune and takes away the chairs. Do you have musical chairs in Australia?
While we're at it, do you still have toads there? We seem to be running out of ours...
t_g
G'Day!
Yep, I live in cane toad country, in Far North Queensland. All sugarcane fields, saltwater and freshwater crocodiles, snakes, box jellyfish, irukandji and toads galore. (all deadly, but the toads)
As for musical chairs: not quite like in the USA, our "Liberal" party (far right, almost fascist under John Howard) is not really interchangeable with the Labor party of our Mandarin-speaking PM, Kevin Rudd.
I am sure that our society is on the best way to resemble yours - but not yet!
Yes, we went "all the way with Georgie Bush to the Hindu Kush" and yes, we are still there and even sending more lamb to slaughter, but hey: we were in Vietnam and Iraq too.
We have our "peacekeepers" in East Timor (HUGE gas and oil fields in the Timor Gap!), RAMSI in the Solomon Islands and let's not forget about Papua New Guinea. But we are a much smaller version of Empire America.
As for democracy: don't know enough about the US to really decide, but us here, we do live in a democracy.
G'Day to you, too! We just woke up on this side of the Pacific.
I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, land of freeway gridlock, high-rise buildings that sprout like genetically-modified corn, and bridges that keep falling apart...but also beautiful natural scenery and parks, and lots of creative, intelligent people who keep informed about world events. All deadly, but the people and parks.
I have often been intrigued by Aussie politics. Why do you get involved in so many military adventures around the globe? What is in it for you? Or is it simply a residual effect of British Colonialism? Britain does it, so you have to join in, too?
Or is it because all Australians are descendants of criminal exiles, and sometimes you miss your old buddies, partners in crime, around the world? (ha)
Seriously, why the consistent military adventurism? Does the Australian public support these military campaigns?
t_g
We fancy ourselves as part of the Anglo-Saxon world elite. Simple as that. Even though we have a large South East Asian population, many Chinese, Italians, Greeks (myself, I am part French, part Hungarian), we are all encouraged to assimilate.
So we learn to play cricket (I don't understand it properly), rugby (which is called here: footy), call football/soccer "wog-ballet". We are all surf-lifesaving, love the outdoors, barbies (barbecues) and the "bush" (outback).
If our Anglo-Saxon brothers go to war, we are "shoulder-to-shoulder" with them. Ostensibly, because of the ANZUS treaty - but I always wonder, where is the NZ part from it all? We consider the Kiwis wusses, because they are kinda outside the club: don't let nuclear-powered warships into their harbours, or even into their territorial waters and when USA starts some war somewhere, they wiggle out somehow. And yet, they are always welcome everywhere. Go figure...
As for the public and our taste for war: I flew down to Sydney twice with friends to participate in the peace marches of early '03 (once we combined it with a Bruce Springsteen concert, the second time we saw the Rolling Stones - why waste all the carbon footprint on just one worthy cause :)
These were some of the biggest peace rallies in the world: the media played it down, it was reported that there were around 100,000 people. I was there: believe me, there were many more. Everything was peaceful. We sang, marched and the police just stood by. No drama. As for the marchers: mostly middle aged, middle class, people you'd think they are just apathetic, age-mellowed softies. There were also little old ladies in beige cardigans and families with pets. You know who were not there? The "troublemakers": anarchists, junkies, drunks, lowlives.
As for now: I think most of us realized, that yes, we can say what we want, but then what, who listens? We said it, but nothing happened. So we just stopped saying it...
P.s. San Francisco is a nice part of the world!
cheers from Tropical North Queensland
Cheers, Sheila! Thank you for the synopsis of your protest activities. Those were heady days around here, too, in '03, with huge protest marches, lots of very creative actions, strong spirit. Many local political analysts said that the organizing against the military attack was far ahead of the timeline of opposition to the Vietnam war. They assumed that the protests would continue and get bigger, so the war couldn't really last long even if it got started. They were so wrong. When the bombing began, then the ground invasion, people were just stunned. In some ways, they still are. There has been very little significant protest activity ever since.
I'm looking at a map of Australia, and I see Queensland. If you are far north, you might be close to the Great Barrier Reef. Is that so? I saw a TV special about it recently, that indicated that the reef was under environmental stress, and part of it may be dying. Is that true?
Do you and your friends go surfing every morning? That would be nice.
San Francisco is a nice place, to be sure, but it is too expensive!!
Our comments have a long time interval in between, did you notice? That's because you Aussies all sleep at the wrong time, you know. Perhaps you could do something about that.
Regarding your explanation of Australia's military adventurism--see, I was correct: you do miss your fellow criminals! Oh well, as they say, the more, the merrier.
Cheers again ,Tropical North Queensland dweller.
t_g
G'Day, it's late arvo here, just came back from work and before I take the dog for walkies, let's just have a whinge about the state of the Great Barrier Reef. Yep, we live right at the edge of the Reef, in Port Douglas. We have rainforest (Daintree) right behind us and the Reef at the front. Literally. We are beachfront, so if we get a cyclone, you'll see us on the tele: floating on top of some debris, or maybe holding on to a palm tree.
We don't surf, we don't have good breakers, that's for pretty much everyone else in Australia. Also, we have marine stingers (box jellyfish, irukandji) for most of the year and if they touch you, you're a goner in virtually seconds. Also, we have the occasional salty (big saltwater crocs, averaging 5-6m). But diving is wonderful here! If you are into diving, this is a good place to indulge.
We've lived here since 2000, I've been diving regularly (once-twice a week at least) and I can definitely see the changes. When a post comes up about coral bleaching, farm runoffs, (we have extensive sugarcane farming around here) I'll write a bit more about it. All I can say it is sad what's happening. Diving is only a hobby for me, but I am starting to be quite passionate about conservation, especially if it concerns marine life. Commercial fishing and industrial farming is a pet hate of mine. I don't really mind if the Aborigines catch the occasional dugong (like your manatee, just bigger), or turtle (we have mostly hawksbills and green turtles), but I hate trawlers.
But back to our military: we have been piggybacking with you everywhere, no matter which party is in power. They either invoke the ANZUS treaty, or that we have the same values, same traditions (yep: Anglo-Saxon), ergo we have to be there and fight with you.
And sotto voce there is also the admission that there will be some business opportunities for us...
BTW: please don't lump me in with the Anglo-Saxon criminals! I am a proud French-Hungarian, who happens to live in Australia. (but let's not open the can of worms that is today's France or Hungary)
cheers, big-smoke-dweller
I would like to continue this informative discussion thread, but could we shift it to a different article? I recommend you check out the article posted today (Nov. 3) on this site called "The Obama Administration and Food, Year One," br Paula Crossfield. I'm sure you will find a comment to respond to there.
By the way, I have no idea what arvo is. What exactly is it--the name of a new treaty, perhaps? The Australian-Romanian-Venezuelan-Ottoman alliance? Well, if so, it looks like those Kiwis wimped out one more time.
Watch out for the salties, mon amie.
Ekzile, good amplification of points suggested by others. The issue is that for some people, support for Obama is an inviolable tenet, stored carefully in a lockbox of the mind (ever since his inauguration) and not to be challenged. McGovern exhibits this tendency, at some times more than others.
This IS difficult to understand. We would all like Obama to do better, but he certainly has a long way to go. The problem I see is that it is not entirely clear that he wants to change things.
And so far, his record is very poor on US military actions.
I think the term that could be applied to McGovern in his support of Obama is Loyalty as in personal loyalty, brand loyalty or team loyalty. This seems to be similar to "my counry, right or wrong" or patriotism. Loyalty is usually considered to be a virtue. This is not a characteristic that I admire. Obama's direction and intentions, what he wants, seem abundantly clear to me looking at his actions.
Old Kipling has an awful lot to answer for. He enthusiastically encouraged the US to become imperialists. Someone said that he was so far to the right of the Tory party that he'd fallen off the end.
From what I know -- Kipling was an example of someone that was an enthusiast for something which in the end when it soured -- and directly affected him - he became disillusioned.
he is an example of "be careful of what you wish for...you might get it".......
throughout his life he was the "POET OF EMPIRE" and glorified it ..until one day -- in his own rabid glorification, insisted to his own son that the son "MUST SERVE ...for the Glory of Empire"....
apparently the son was not as enthusiastic..and they seemd to have parted with that "gulf" between them..the idealism of the father - and the reluctant obedience of the son...ALL FOR THE GLORY OF EMPIRE...
it was the last time he saw his son ..and then received news his son died in one of the Empire's Glorious battles..
it seems it was after that that he wrote that line "here lies a man who tried to hustle the East"......his moment of disillusionment......
HE GOT WHAT HE WISHED FOR...GLORY of EMPIRE --- and lost his son for it.
I find the interpretation of what Ray McGovern wrote by JBPeebles to be totally baffling. He criticizes McGovern for supposedly endorsing what McGovern believes is Brezinski's suggestion for an "early US departure" from Afghanistan while totally ignoring the query that McGovern put forth directly after that sentence and those are the words:
"Quagmire, anyone?"
If one were to have actually read this article very carefully, one would also have found that the word quagmire was also mentioned by McGovern about six paragraphs before that question was raised as when McGovern makes note of the "great-power quagmire in Afghanistan now". I hardly think that if McGovern was actually against an early withdrawal of US forces in Afghanistan, as JBPeebles clearly implies when he claims that having the the US leave "early" from Afghanistan is a belief that "McGovern likely adheres [to]", he [McGovern] would have drawn attention to the fact that remaining in Afghanistan would be reproducing what happened in a place called Vietnam and that was a quagmire.
McGovern cites Stephen Walt as noting that "the longer the United States stays the more it looks like a foreign occupier" which, of course, it is. McGovern has Christopher Preble questioning how American forces in Afghanistan have any bearing at all on US national security.
All of this should make abundantly clear that to somehow claim that McGovern is against the US finally withdrawing its soldiers and mercenary forces from Afghanistan is not only nonsense but also totally absurd.
Appreciate Erroll's opinion. To clear my comment up, I'll say that McGovern's position--however badly I phrase it--is irrelevant. His reporting is the issue for me, as well as some other commentators.
I admit to losing my enthusiasm for McGovern's article when I read the word "early" in reference to an exit to Afghanistan. My interest in a news source is proportional to its credibility, which hinges on objectivity. Presented as they are, McGovern's facts speak for themselves--with McGovern's basic point I have no disagreement. Sharing the same conclusion--that we must get out--is no news; the facts McGovern presents as reasons to end the war are mine as well, and I need no more reasons for getting out.
It's only a question of when we get out, and I don't think we'll be leaving early by leaving now.
It's my opinion that a departure even now, at this late date, would constitute a belated withdrawal. I cannot, and will not endorse writing that:
1) doesn't challenge myths central to the status quo, the logic of empire and aggression
2) unquestionably repeats what is said by mainstream media outlets
Instead of supplying a perpetual enemy for an unendable war--as sought by proponents of Clean Break would prefer in the goal to destabilize Muslim nations, 9/11 debunked myths central to the ongoing resource wars perpetuated in the name of our security. Coupled with public ignorance (see my post http://jbpeebles.blogspot.com/2009/10/emotions-ignorance-drive-911-wars.html ), the flaccid mainstream media produced a consensual environment that allowed the Washington consensus to dictate policy beyond public scrutiny and much needed debate.
The GWOT has undermined our broader foreign policy goals. These wars have greatly diminished our global stature, military preparedness against growing threats, and economic competitiveness versus real strategic competitors--BRIC.
It is rather confusing. I would say that McGovern prefers a withdrawal from Afghanistan but still supports Obama even though Obama says withdrawal is "off the table". McGovern blames the situation on Bush/Cheney, bad advisors, bad military advice - - everyone except Obama. It is a bit of a mystery to me. I suppose it this fantasy that we so often see here and other places that we should give Obama more time as in 1) he's only been in office a short time, 2) he needs to be pressured to "do the right thing", 3) Progressives should "hold his feet to the fire", 4) he's such a nice, well spoken, ethnic type that he will eventually come around, 5) he got the Peace Prize for future benevolent aspirations, 6) he believes in the audacity of hope and change we can believe in, 7) he's a Democrat and a man of the people (community activist, etc.), 8) he is not a Republican and better than them so we must support him, 9) this is how "the system" works and it takes time for a "good" outcome, 10) Obama doesn't have the balls or some such obnoxious euphemism to oppose the forces against him but he really wants to, 11) we need to protect the women, and 12) etc. These are indeed strange times.
"When your're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Just roll to your rifle,
And blow out your brains,
And go to your Gawd like a soldier!"
The Young British Soldier
Kipling, 1892
Good article but suffering from a problem of McGovern being too close to the Washington establishment.
"news"'s comment about McGovern that "a number of his key assumptions are suspect" was spot on. I wasn't surprised to see McGovern write: "impact of an EARLY [my CAPS] U.S. departure 'would be utterly devastating.'” (Quote attributed to Brzezniski.)
I can't ignore the presumption that leaving now would somehow be an "early" departure. Use of presumptive words like "early" shows how deeply flawed the prevailing attitude is among the corporate media.
Now McGovern may simply have been writing what other reporters asked, using "early" as it might be defined by the Washington consensus, to which McGovern likely adheres, that leaving isn't an viable option.
I like exhile's comment that "McGovern and the Democrats are backing Obama in whatever he wants to do and hoping, praying for a change of plans."
It's not a coincidence that Americans' understanding of the situation in Afghanistan is so underdeveloped, especially if the Clean Break strategy is maintained through our mass media. Kipling fought the same kind of hubris and ignorance in his day. We know what the resuIt was despite the media distortions--defeat in colonial ambitions and the slow death of empire.
Good article,
Just how bad it would get, Kipling didn't know:
9/11 was not planned, funded, recruited or carried out from Afghanistan.
The so called "master mind" was educated in a university in North Carolina and the hijackers were trained in the USA.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32756582
Then Bush/Cheney let it happen after repeated warnings from various Intel agencies because of Bush ties to Saudi money and was the purpose of the cover-up of this criminal needless war. Now the pipelines are still the money prize for the war racketeers while the military pays 400 bucks a gallon for the fuel.
War=Terrorism
Obama must choose to be a peace president now or another failed Empire of War stooge.
Good luck.
Ray is having a harder time apologizing for Obama but he is still trying. Here are two comments by him from this article:
"It is clear, at the same time, that he is under great military and political pressure to send more troops on what those of us who experienced Vietnam are convinced is a fool’s errand."
"You may be in a position to help give the President the wherewithal to resist pressure to escalate the war in Afghanistan."
This seems to imply that Obama really doesn't want to escalate in Afghanistan but is being forced to. This does not seem to be the case. Obama has declared from the start that Afghanistan war is one of necessity that must be fought and won. He and his team have declared unambiguously that withdrawal is not an option. Obama appointed McChrystal as well as all the other advisors and team players that call for further escalation. There doesn't seem be any reason to think that Obama is a nice guy and would prefer peace to war. McGovern and the Democrats are backing Obama in whatever he wants to do and hoping, praying for a change of plans. For all you Ray McGovern followers I suggest that you compare his opinion of Obama with that of Daniel Ellsberg at: http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/11324
Good observations, ekzile. People ought to be very careful when they read McGovern's writing. He does say a lot of good things, but a number of his key assumptions are suspect.
Erroll/Mustbefree
Ray McGovern is well aware of the appox. two million or so Viet Namese that lost their lives during that war with quite number being killed by the NVA and VC and our 58,000 lost. Don't forget the ones that were maimed and disabled (and are still being killed and maimed by land mines (theirs and ours) clusters (ours exclusively) and other ordanance just laying around for kids to find.....the totals are far higher than just killed.
Same for Afganistan,don't forget the walking wounded and the ones that don't walk anymore. And the future vixctims of this war.
This was one long article to say that we should be the hell out of there. We should never have been there, we shouldn't be there and if we ever get someone with guts in charge, we won't be there.
Winning and losing rhetoric is for bar room warriors, rear eschelon hero's and those that never faced fire.
And the emotional scars and wounds that will never heal for everyone there, us and them.
Only got shot at once while in AF at the airport in Saigon during Tet 68 and even at this late date sending airplanes to go out and kill people is haunting.Remember "puff the magic dragon"?The c47 with the gatling gun,the first sky killer like a drone.Kill everything inside a football size field in less than a minute and,of course,the poisons dropped from the c130's.Which is the more noble war?the classic mano-a-mano or helping to kill from the sky?I was not a pilot but a flightline mechanic;more specific AGE mech.Know some Vietnamese people here and a little pennence for me wrote my take on their creation story.Might be a copout but cant imagine shooting at someone with a gun but helped someone else do it!Tony
Amen brother. It takes a lot to heal those wounds and scars and even then PTSD can strike back turning a minor infection into an ailing condition as it happened early this year.
Mustbefree
Did you read McGovern's entire piece before condemning him? Perhaps you missed seeing the part of the article that is entitled toward the end For Intelligence Analyst Colleagues where he mentions about four paragraphs into that section the two to three Vietnamese who were slaughtered by American bombs and bullets as well as the 58,000 Americans who died in that senseless war. I strongly suspect that since McGovern is aware of the number of Vietnamese who were wiped out by the Americans, that he is more than aware of the number of Iraqis and Afghans who have been killed, brutalized and terrorized by the American military.
Erroll;The last 2 paragraphs are for the homefront and I know that he knows how many of the "others died and were maimed;my point was to say that all count as humans and somebody mourned the one who died or was maimed.Tony
I get his passion to stop the war but when he talks of dead and maimed it is only the young people from the usa that are counted.Over 3 million Vietnamese to about 60,000 us;over one or 2 million Iraqi's to how many usans and there is no kind of count from afpak yet but it is genocide again.Kipling will be shown to be a prophet as well as a poet.Can anyone tell me how we managed to get so much stupid all at once for at least the last 50 years and have them with the power of life and death over us?Karma is.Tony
Thank you again, Ray McGovern. You, along with Daniel Ellsberg, Ralph Nader, Howard Zinn, Daniel Kucinich, and some other courageous souls are the real heros of the American republic in its current deeply troubled condition. Words of wisdom and truth ARE still spoken within our borders despite the attempts during many decades to stamp out dissident views by ridiculing those who deliver them as oddballs and ineffectual misfits. Unfortunately those words of wisdom for the most part only are heard or read by those already disposed to take to heart their message. The great mass of Americans continue in lock step as passive sheep or lemmings as we are misled towards catastrophe on all fronts.
Sioux Rose
BAKUIN: I second your sentiments. Good post.
More Kipling, for those of us who'd have thought him quaint. His reference, of course, is to those whose duty was "not to reason why."
The Last of the Light Brigade
There were thirty million English who talked of England's might,
There were twenty broken troopers who lacked a bed for the night.
They had neither food nor money, they had neither service nor trade;
They were only shiftless soldiers, the last of the Light Brigade.
They felt that life was fleeting; they knew not that art was long,
That though they were dying of famine, they lived in deathless song.
They asked for a little money to keep the wolf from the door;
And the thirty million English sent twenty pounds and four!
They laid their heads together that were scarred and lined and grey;
Keen were the Russian sabres, but want was keener than they;
And an old Troop-Sergeant muttered, "Let us go to the man who writes
The things on Balaclava the kiddies at school recites."
They went without bands or colours, a regiment ten-file strong,
To look for the Master-singer who had crowned them all in his song;
And, waiting his servant's order, by the garden gate they stayed,
A desolate little cluster, the last of the Light Brigade.
They strove to stand to attention, to straighten the toil-bowed back;
They drilled on an empty stomach, the loose-knit files fell slack;
With stooping of weary shoulders, in garments tattered and frayed,
They shambled into his presence, the last of the Light Brigade.
The old Troop-Sergeant was spokesman, and "Beggin' your pardon," he said,
"You wrote o' the Light Brigade, sir. Here's all that isn't dead.
An' it's all come true what you wrote, sir, regardin' the mouth of hell;
For we're all of us nigh to the workhouse, an, we thought we'd call an' tell.
"No, thank you, we don't want food, sir; but couldn't you take an' write
A sort of 'to be continued' and 'see next page' o' the fight?
We think that someone has blundered, an' couldn't you tell 'em how?
You wrote we were heroes once, sir. Please, write we are starving now."
The poor little army departed, limping and lean and forlorn.
And the heart of the Master-singer grew hot with "the scorn of scorn."
And he wrote for them wonderful verses that swept the land like flame,
Till the fatted souls of the English were scourged with the thing called Shame.
O thirty million English that babble of England's might,
Behold there are twenty heroes who lack their food to-night;
Our children's children are lisping to "honour the charge they made-"
And we leave to the streets and the workhouse the charge of the Light Brigade!
The great irony that seems to have escaped the mainstream media as well as many liberals is that we have a president of color of the United States raining down bombs on people of color in Afghanistan and slaughtering more people of color in Pakistan via drone missiles. Agent of hope? Not for those people who have felt the wrath of Obama's militant actions.
“out of the box,” as we say in Washington.
The box being a coffin.
" The most dangerous man in America" the sobriquet he earned from Henry Kissinger when Ellsberg gave the Pentagon Papers to the N.Y. Times. Kissinger is a war criminal that belongs in jail but like the Orwellian doublespeak and punic,vitriol that he spouts he is one of the most dangerous men in America, because telling the truth according to him, is a dangerous lie!