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Israel’s ‘Crime Against Humanity’
Israel's siege of Gaza, largely unseen by the outside world because of Jerusalem's refusal to allow humanitarian aid workers, reporters and photographers access to Gaza, rivals the most egregious crimes carried out at the height of apartheid by the South African regime. It comes close to the horrors visited on Sarajevo by the Bosnian Serbs. It has disturbing echoes of the Nazi ghettos of Lodz and Warsaw.
"This is a stain on what is left of Israeli morality," I was told by Richard N. Veits, the former U.S. ambassador to Jordan who led a delegation from the Council on Foreign Relations to Gaza to meet Hamas leaders this past summer. "I am almost breathless discussing this subject. It is so myopic. Washington, of course, is a handmaiden to all this. The Israeli manipulation of a population in this manner is comparable to some of the crimes that took place against civilian populations fifty years ago."
The U.N. special rapporteur for human rights in the occupied Palestinian territory, former Princeton University law professor Richard Falk, calls what Israel is doing to the 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza "a crime against humanity." Falk, who is Jewish, has condemned the collective punishment of the Palestinians in Gaza as "a flagrant and massive violation of international humanitarian law as laid down in Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention." He has asked for "the International Criminal Court to investigate the situation, and determine whether the Israeli civilian leaders and military commanders responsible for the Gaza siege should be indicted and prosecuted for violations of international criminal law."
Falk, while condemning the rocket attacks by the militant group Hamas, which he points out are also criminal violations of international law, goes on to say that "such Palestinian behavior does not legalize Israel's imposition of a collective punishment of a life- and health-threatening character on the people of Gaza, and should not distract the U.N. or international society from discharging their fundamental moral and legal duty to render protection to the Palestinian people."
"It is an unfolding humanitarian catastrophe that each day poses the entire 1.5 million Gazans to an unspeakable ordeal, to a struggle to survive in terms of their health," Falk said when I reached him by phone in California shortly before he left for Israel. "This is an increasingly precarious condition. A recent study reports that 46 percent of all Gazan children suffer from acute anemia. There are reports that the sonic booms associated with Israeli overflights have caused widespread deafness, especially among children. Gazan children need thousands of hearing aids. Malnutrition is extremely high in a number of different dimensions and affects 75 percent of Gazans. There are widespread mental disorders, especially among young people without the will to live. Over 50 percent of Gazan children under the age of 12 have been found to have no will to live."
Gaza now spends 12 hours a day without power, which can be a death sentence to the severely ill in hospitals. There are few drugs and little medicine, including no cancer or cystic fibrosis medication. Hospitals have generators but often lack fuel. Medical equipment, including one of Gaza's three CT scanners, has been destroyed by power surges and fluctuations. Medical staff cannot control the temperature of incubators for newborns. And Israel has revoked most exit visas, meaning some of those who need specialized care, including cancer patients and those in need of kidney dialysis, have died. Of the 230 Gazans estimated to have died last year because they were denied proper medical care, several spent their final hours at Israeli crossing points where they were refused entry into Israel. The statistics gathered on children-half of Gaza's population is under the age of 17-are increasingly grim. About 45 percent of children in Gaza have iron deficiency from a lack of fruit and vegetables, and 18 percent have stunted growth.
"It is macabre," Falk said. "I don't know of anything that exactly fits this situation. People have been referring to the Warsaw ghetto as the nearest analog in modern times."
"There is no structure of an occupation that endured for decades and involved this kind of oppressive circumstances," the rapporteur added. "The magnitude, the deliberateness, the violations of international humanitarian law, the impact on the health, lives and survival and the overall conditions warrant the characterization of a crime against humanity. This occupation is the direct intention by the Israeli military and civilian authorities. They are responsible and should be held accountable."
The point of this Israeli siege, ostensibly, is to break Hamas, the radical Islamic group that was elected to power in 2007. But Hamas has repeatedly proposed long-term truces with Israel and offered to negotiate a permanent truce. During the last cease-fire, established through Egyptian intermediaries in July, Hamas upheld the truce although Israel refused to ease the blockade. It was Israel that, on Nov. 4, initiated an armed attack that violated the truce and killed six Palestinians. It was only then that Hamas resumed firing rockets at Israel. Palestinians have launched more than 200 rockets on Israel since the latest round of violence began. There have been no Israeli casualties.
"This is a crime of survival," Falk said of the rocket attacks. "Israel has put the Gazans in a set of circumstances where they either have to accept whatever is imposed on them or resist in any way available to them. That is a horrible dilemma to impose upon a people. This does not alleviate the Palestinians, and Gazans in particular, for accountability for doing these acts involving rocket fire, but it also imposes some responsibility on Israel for creating these circumstances."
Israel seeks to break the will of the Palestinians to resist. The Israeli government has demonstrated little interest in diplomacy or a peaceful solution. The rapid expansion of Jewish settlements on the West Bank is an effort to thwart the possibility of a two-state solution by gobbling up vast tracts of Palestinian real estate. Israel also appears to want to thrust the impoverished Gaza Strip onto Egypt. There are now dozens of tunnels, the principal means for food and goods, connecting Gaza to Egypt. Israel permits the tunnels to operate, most likely as part of an effort to further cut Gaza off from Israel.
"Israel, all along, has not been prepared to enter into diplomatic process that gives the Palestinians a viable state," Falk said. "They [the Israelis] feel time is on their side. They feel they can create enough facts on the ground so people will come to the conclusion a viable state cannot emerge."
The use of terror and hunger to break a hostile population is one of the oldest forms of warfare. I watched the Bosnian Serbs employ the same tactic in Sarajevo. Those who orchestrate such sieges do not grasp the terrible rage born of long humiliation, indiscriminate violence and abuse. A father or a mother whose child dies because of a lack of vaccines or proper medical care does not forget. A boy whose ill grandmother dies while detained at an Israel checkpoint does not forget. All who endure humiliation, abuse and the murder of family members do not forget. This rage becomes a virus within those who, eventually, stumble out into the daylight. Is it any wonder that 71 percent of children interviewed at a school in Gaza recently said they wanted to be a "martyr"?
The Israelis in Gaza, like the American forces in Iraq and Afghanistan, are foolishly breeding the next generation of militants and Islamic radicals. Jihadists, enraged by the injustices done by Israel and the United States, seek to carry out reciprocal acts of savagery, even at the cost of their own lives. The violence unleashed on Palestinian children will, one day, be the violence unleashed on Israeli children. This is the tragedy of Gaza. This is the tragedy of Israel.
- Posted in
118 Comments so far
Show AllAlthough Israel and the US hold most of the blame I do think the response of the Palestinian Authority and Arab governments is also significant.
The blockade was broken once--but Hamas helped reseal the border.
The PA is helping Israel.
Its very difficult to have a unified position when you have so many within your own group that are willing to do anything to appease the oppressors.
And it has been that way for a very long time.
"This is the tragedy of Israel." Yes, it is. I am a Jew,an American and I agree with Falk's point of view, observations. I have often thought of Warsaw (where my grandparents grew up and left at turn of/into 20th century), since the start of the building of the Wall. I think the survivors of the Holocaust in Europe, who are still alive, in Israel, must be feeling great emotional pain. Please see the website of Jews Against the Occupation of Palestine and Gush Shalom, the Israeli peace group, Peace Now (translation). Noam Chomsky has said that Israel is an outpost of the US military. I think we, as Americans, need to push for the US to act as "honest" brokers for peace and immediately stop the blockades, etc. "Collective punishment" is a crime against humanity.
Excellent comment.
one of the saddest things i saw was when Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by a far right wing orthodox jew. remember how rabin recanted on many of the things in his entire career as a brilliant military man responsible for many of the dispossessions of the palestinians? and he said things such as:
what israel had done with palestinians was a shameful act - and that it should never have been israel's reality to become a conquering nation:
"we should not be conquerors...this is not who we are" and said that the occupations of palestinian lands and dispossessions needed to stop. shortly after that and his meeting with arafat (both after all had been guilty of crimes of war against each other's people) - he was killed. I cried for a week after that because i had seen how palestinians and jews in israel and in the west bank and gaza -- neighbors , tradespeople, were SO happy being just ordinary people. and then a 'dream' died. but it was HE that , from a warrior, stated that israel to have peace with palestinians MUST give up land back.
i remember seeing in the news how EVEN palestinians cried when rabin was killed.
you are an example of the compassionate jew that people across the world, muslims, hindus, asians, recognize and always know are among us. the kind of jew - that brings out one of the great traditions of jewish thought:
an insatiable quest for TRUTH no matter where it leads. this is something I learned first hand from some jewish friends and teachers i came across . may there be more of you.
.Hello Lantzman,
I think it important to note that this has nothing to do with Judaism and everything to do with one nation's unethical treatment of an oppressed people. Too many times I see this conversation degenerate into Jew vs. Arab rather than a rogue nation's treatment of those it dispossessed in order to gain total control over that which it was given for humanitarian reasons.
I do understand the link to Judaism of course, just as I see the vast majority of Israelis being of that religion. Yet it is counter productive, in my opinion, to treat this as anything other than political in nature. The debate remains much clearer when the almost irrelevent mention of religion enters into it.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
ardee:hi. Please see my new comment higher on the page. Besides what's going on:Israel and Palestine, Israel's bad policies, US bad policies, the whole hate Jews thing comes out from under its rock. Then there's the "hate Muslims" thread by various conservatives... There are Republicans who think I'll join in their scapegoating of Muslims because I am a Jew:it surprised one person I know that I won't support prejudice against Muslims or hate speech. Because I am a Jew, I am sensitive to oppression of all groups.
You mean like this Jew hating?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/05/opinion/05wed2.html?_r=1&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink
My blood boils when American Jews bring up the antisemitic charge as cover for war crimes. It is like stating that we musn't condemn the Nazis because of unfair charges against the German people.
This politically correct parsing what is is just to stroke the delicate sensibilities of the Jewish portrayal as the victims has been used as a tactic to silence the outrage.
Personally, I don't know how American Jews can throw their lot with the vilest war criminals in support of Israel--claiming that Israel is being driven into the sea--while it is they who confiscate land and bulldoze homes. Instead good liberal and progressive Jews turn away and focus on the Sudan or other cause while never questioning their unconditional support of the oppressor promised land. Because we know how much influence the American Jewish lobbies have on our policy and politics, but I don't hear the voices of american Jewish outrage--tell you what I hear---excuses and attempts to deflect and minimize.
So much for seeing things as we want them to be.
.We see things as we are, as my sig line notes.
I read the article to which you referred and found no antisemitism within it. Perhaps you might enlighten this poor inadequate intellect on exactly where within it was the hating?
I do not support the actions of the State of Israel towards the Arabs who once resided there, I thought I made that clear enough on numerous occasions , but, as a Jew myself I am aware of the importance of the homeland to all Jews everywhere. It is a cultural thing that most non Jews cannot fathom. Whenever my family gathered, on whatever holiday or occasion, toasts were always begun with the words,"next year in Jerusalem". For so very many years, ever since the fall of the temple to the Romans and the diaspora, Jews have yearned for a land to call their own, so ,if there is a blind eye turned to the actions of the Israeli government, if there is a loyalty beyond the ken of those who do not know the reasons, well there it is....
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Well put, and I agree.
Joe
It is a sad commentary that the lone comment on this article strains to blame the victim as a way to almost justify or minimize the unspeakable crimes of Israel--even the suggestion that "it has been that way for a very long time" suggests that this is an ancient struggle.
When actually it isn't.
This truth--more than any, has been deliberately kept suppressed with the full awareness of so-called progressive American Jews, so indoctrinated to defend Israel as the eternal victim, they would rather share an alliance with war criminals of their own tribe than admit a moral failing.
Perhaps one day they will say, "we didn't know".
We can only hope, but my cynically bitterness here more than anywhere, leads me to doubt it. Never again is for Jews only.
Clearly Palestinians are sub-human 'terrorists,' that is why it is apropo to run over them with tanks-Hi Rachelle-torture Arab children and become the new, I dislike saying it, Nazi's. What a desecration of Jewish heart and soul, for me, this is something no amount of land would be worth selling my soul for...
Let's see...a predominantly Christian country works hand in hand with a predominantly Jewish country to battle a predominantly Muslim country and region. And visa versa. Hmmm, what's the common thread here? Sounds like the next Crusade to me.
Yeah, except the Jews fought on the side of the Muslims during the Crusades, defending their common cities against European aggression. This is worse.
I agree with almost everything Chris said, but I take exception at his repeating Richard's condemnation of Hamas' rocket attacks. These attacks are self-defense against Israeli occupation and aggression-and are justified by international law.
The complicity of Israel with Fatah goes back decades, which was used by an oppressor to divide and conquer. Arafat, numerous times, fell for this tactic-even though the general nature of his resistance was sincere.
I would recommend we all put pressure on Obama to sign off on the Arab league proposal-which returns all territories to the Palestinians pre-1967-and allows their legitimate right of return. Even Shimon Peres supports this plan.
As for Gaza-right now-the blockade must end -and we on the left must take this issue to the streets !
"I would recommend we all put pressure on Obama to sign off on the Arab league proposal-which returns all territories to the Palestinians pre-1967-and allows their legitimate right of return."
How about we return all territories to the Palestinians PRE-1948 when "Israel" was created by the KHAZAR immigrants from Eastern Europe, the phony "Jews". Hmmm. I guess that would "displace" the Khazars. Oh. Well. No problem there. Just give them all of New Jersey and 50% of New York City. Anybody see any possible problems with that?
-- EKATON --
you might be surprised to know that Gaza has a border with Egypt too. This border at the Rafah Crossing is also closed since the Egyptians don’t want Hamas terrorists in their country anymore than Israel does.
So, I guess Egypt is “blockading” Gaza as well?
How’s the “Boycott Egypt” campaign coming along? When can I expect to see the first press release?
They know where their bread is buttered. Egypt is second in US foreign aid--only Israel gets more. And they dance to the tune. Again, another example of straining credibility--or deflection or downright denial to hold Israel and it's criminal ally, the US accountable.
For shame.
Excuse me? Now we are telling the Egyptians to blockade? I'm still trying to figure out what interest you believe we have in blockading Gaza? Americans are now responsible for the blockade in Gaza?
Can you think of one reason we would do that? I can't.
AIPAC
Vern
While I could see the possibility that the lobby could influence us not to interfere, I still don't see why we would ever be interested in confining a group of people in Gaza. America could be blamed for non intervention, but so can every Arab/Muslim nation in the middle east along with Europe.
Dear Sir, Please don't confuse Egypt's "President," with the will of Egypt's people, who are repulsed by Israel's homicide, brutality and aggression. I spell for ****, but I hope my point is clear....
Egypt -- or more specifically , Mubarak , is doing the US's bidding to get his Billions of US military aid...and the US is doing Israel's bidding - and effectively "squeeze" the palestinians that way .
what this reminds one of is:
a SLAVE HOUSE -- where the slaves' "quarters" are so cramped and locked in every way ..and the slaves are allowed to "get out" (:"enter israel:") only if they behave: which means
work as the designated cheap labor israel needs to wash the floors, do the constructions of buildings, etc...and at the end of the day , go "back" to their slave quarters.
this is israel's version of ensuring that not only does it "corner" the palestinians right where they "ought to be" according to israel's convenience, but that they also don't go "around" where they're "not supposed to be" since they are the designated "second rate" people suited only for slave work. they should only come "out" of gaza and ":enter" israel according to their "proper" designation. it is israel's version of building its prosperity (true -- with much of jewish hard work and resourcefulness) based as much upon slave labor as anything else.
by "allowing" the palestinians to have their "work permits" IF THEY BEHAVE LIKE the second class people they are according to israel's designations - israel can then pretend , whatever the world thinks otherwise, that it does not maintain a "ghetto" reminding people of those in nazi germany .
after all -- the palestinians have their "own gaza and economy" -- it's just that Palestinians are SUCH terrorists when they go to israel....the reasoning would go.
you can imagine similar circumstances in the plantations in america until just over a century ago :
tens of millions of africans told to stay in their long-houses like cattle...then roused at morning to work the fields under supervision...their movements restricted as they might "cause trouble"...and then in the dusk told to stay in their long houses....
that';s what israel is doing today.
Todays Nazi's are the Israeli's and today's Jews are the Palestinians.
Worse however than the accuracy of this metaphor of ethnic cleansings and evil is the time line. Nazism lasted only 10 years. The improved version of Nazism is the sanitized Israeli atrocities which have been going on for 60 plus years. It appears that the combination of media manipulation and US political cover is a more effective way to achieve ethnic cleansing than the actual concentration camps of the Nazis. Concentration camps were called laber camps until the Germans lost. Then they were called by a different name. During times of sanitizing war for land and crimes against humanity, such as the Palestinian Holocost of the last 60 years, more creative methods of diabolical political spinning of the same evil have been invented and even improved upon to achieve the same ethic cleansings.
The ultimate hyprocrosy is the portrayal of Israel as being a victim. This ranks as a marvel of collective insanity.
bligh4
"In the Warsaw ghetto folks could go in and out to work and there was access to food"
Are you kidding? On what planet was this true?
Beat me to it, thanks.
.Well, up until the uprising and the gassing of the sewers...As a boy I was so very proud of those folks who fought and died in that ghetto, tying up three Panzer divisions by doing so.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
And I didn't have to say a word. How satisfying. I'm curious to see the quality of your next 'last post' - or how long it is before you start the name-calling.
signed,
Tar baby - from this point on, and for your benefit only, an apt epithet. How fortuitous that your choice of insult coincides with my predilections.
Here is a toxic mix: religion, nationalisn, fear, and the Jewish collective memory of the searing Holocaust. The solution (that word has a such an ugly connotation) will come when one gives in, surrenders. Something bad will probably have to happen to create the dialectic that will finally spur the end to this madness.
Is there a diplomat out there who can broker a peace with such enemies?
Taking as given the Israeli treatment of the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank amount to 'crimes against humanity', what can be realistically done about it?
Condemn Israel in the UN? Been done before - so what? What did it change? Nothing but give hard-line Isreali-imperialists a laugh.
Mount a 'coalition of the willing' to join forces into a military expedition into Israel? Not likely to happen. Most nations don't care about the Palestinians - not even the Arabs who use the plight of the Palestinians to rightly condemn Israel but do nothing to acutally address the conflict. And the US? Until the US works out its own paranoia and imperialism we are not the ones to 'fix' the conflict in Palestine. We're largely responsible for its existence.
Since the first infitada, Palestinians have rejected Isreali hegemony in 'Palestine' but have not had the power to change the situation. In their comparative military impotence they use the weapons of the weak - comparatively ineffective missiles, suicide bombers, and terror. They don't have the high-tech weapons we give.sell the ISraelis. But at one time they had the opportunity to use world opinion as a weapon, but Arafat pissed it away while posing as the great leader.
The whole world bewails the plight of the Palestinians, but nobody really gives a damn. Nobody is going to do anything about it. It is and will remain a running sore reminding us all .
The same thing was true of the 1 millon victim Armenian genocide 100 years ago, the 20 million killed by the Soviet government 80 years ago, the 12 million killed by the German state sixty years ago, the 3 million killed by Cambodian madness thirty years ago, the 2 million killed in SE Asia by American madness thirty years ago - not to mention the hundreds of thousands of killings in Iraq and Afghanistan. Not to diminish the plight of the victims, but in light of these disasters, Israeli's killing madness is frankly second-rate.
I suggest that right now the best that can be done by Americans is to compel their government to withdraw US support for Israel's expansionism and illegal actions. Because as it is now, America and Israel, behave with the same disregard for international norms and as long as the US gets away with it, Isreal will.
The only truly realistic thing that can be done about these crimes , by Israel and the U.S.A., is to take the perpetrators to trial.
The only truly just act would be to take the U.S. Criminals, i.e. G.W. Bush and Co., then the Israeli culprits. Build a prison especially for them, and keep them there for long sentences.
Just to make a small comparison,
Millions of U.S. and world citizens thought for ten years that O.J. Simpson "got away with Murder". But when he was eventually convicted it was for a crime that would have netted a very small amount of money, over material items that would eventually turned to dust, unless more was spent to artificially preserve them.
O.J. in his arrogance thought that he was "untouchable" and the amount of sympathy he now has from the world would if converted to "matter",e.g.. powder or dust, would not even fill a thimble.
At least now O.J. is not a threat to anyone, outside of a state correctional facility in Nevada; far away from the rest of us. The same should be the case for all who commit crimes, whether nations or "old football stars". The sentences should reflect the crimes.
Justice always finds a way to bring itself to light. Whether it is an acceptable form depends upon who is applying it, and to whom.
"Most nations don't care about the Palestinians - not even the Arabs who use the plight of the Palestinians to rightly condemn Israel but do nothing to acutally address the conflict."
I'm glad someone is in the real world here and realize there are a lot of folks involved in this mess..
( you left out the approximately 2 million Vietnamese killed by the NVA and Viet Cong)
And the reason that America is telling Isreal to bottle up Gaza? I still don't know what the possible reason could be.
I believe that I requested a reference from you about the statement that you made in a recent posting that the stories of Americans slaughtering the innocent Native Peoples was, I believe your words were to the effect, an overblown rumor, etc.
Now that you have mentioned 2mil Vietnamese killed by the NVA and Vietcong, I am moved to rebut that figure, with the simple statement that it was the Americans who killed that many Vietnamese, which would have been slightly half of the over all population of Vietnam in 1960 (UN estimates). So if your assertion is correct, there should not have been anyone left in Vietnam when the Americans finally left in 1975.
Please help me with my lack of information with some references; or forgive my ignorance.
You seem to make many postings often using conjecture and "misinformation", is there a particular reason for that?
Thank you
bligh4
Actually, the total killed for the Vietnam War (American Phase) was approximatley 1.7 million-including NVA -VC kia, civilians killed by the NVA-VC, civilians killed by US, SVA troops kia, and civilians killed by the SVA.
These totals do not include the french-Indochina war, the 100,000 civilians killed by the NVA in the final 1975 offensive, the 170,000 killed in the re-education camps, or the 600k that perished fleeing Vietnam.
So, unless you want to count EVERY death in Vietnam as caused by the US, the killing was enthusiastically participated in by all parties involved.
Thanks for your time, but do you have a reference/citation which could be refered to?
bligh4
Sure, one of them is Twentieth Century Atlas -death tolls. Gives a wide range of death tolls for various wars and events by citation- and then gives a median.
First, by historical record most native Americans died from disease, not Genocide as was being claimed. Sort of like the smallpox claim for example, no one at that time knew anything about germs, seems strange that settlers would be practicing a form of warfare that no one knew anything about.
I simply was rejecting the genocide fabrication put out by Churchill and others. I did not say at any time there weren't many native Americans killed by settlers and vice versa. These guys were't defenceless little cowards. Most were warriors even before they were hunters. And skilled warriors. Read the histories of the tribes themselves, what we have left and you'll find they were usually fighting each other. Many people miss that some of these fights were traditional and weren't for killing exactly. I believe you know what I mean.
"Now that you have mentioned 2mil Vietnamese killed by the NVA and Vietcong"
That was my bad. Never post when you are in a hurry. Two million was the total number of civilian casualties, not the number killed by the NVA and VC. My apologies.
We estimated we killed around 1.1 million soldiers, the Viet Namese claimed it was 1.2 million, an NVA col. told me it was a little over 1.25 million so I'd believe its around that figure.
We estimated that around 1 to 1.25 million civilians were killed at the time, the Viet Namese claimed two million. It could easily be anywhere in this range.
Our estimates of those killed by the NVA and VC ranged from 650,000 to 800,000. 650,000 is a minimum based on reports at the time...I personally have no doubt of these figures.
I have no idea why the UN would say Viet Nam had a population of about 6-8 million. Our information then was around 57 million. Hanoi claimed 50 to 60 million. Its over 80 million today.
"You seem to make many postings often using conjecture and "misinformation", is there a particular reason for that?"
A well phrased insult. My congratulations.
The reason is I'm not writing a term paper with footnotes or attribution. And in case you missed it, very few things posted here are. But you can check my figures or thoughts (other than opinions) most anywhere. The Smithsonian has the best information on the "Indian Wars", though you can find a lot of information in Army historical files.
Thomas - they were here all over the country. Now they are not. What happened?
There were diseases, of course. Europeans' ranks had been severly thinned and culled leaving the more immune to carry the diseases. Europeans, while not knowing the formal germ theory of disease, had enough practical knowledge to shun and stay away from people with communicable diseases. They knew diseases were catchy.
And I agree that some tribes knew how to fight, but did not own guns at first. Some did not and were agrarian people with plenty of space.
But you cannot deny the formal forcible evictions to far away places, such as the Trail of Tears. You cannot deny the ubiquitous smaller evictions scattered all over as new folks moved in and WANTED. So many had guns and an attitude of being the real human beings.
I have seen the orders that George Washington issued to evict the people from the Finger Lakes region in New York or, if they refused to move, kill them. That document survived. How many others were there that were followed and then were discarded and crumbled and flew away in a field?
Joe
wellll...if some people are going to remind us of the millions killed by the vietcong -- to somehow diffuse how many were killed or caused to die by the americans in Indochina...we might as well not forget how at least 10 million native indians were genocidally gotten rid of by america -- and we might as well remember the 20 million africans demanded by the american slave trade and plantations and industries to build its wealth foundation.........
u know, just trying to make sure EVERYONE's story is here......
i mean if we're going to talk about GENOCIDE as it came to be known by the 20th century - where we are counting in the MILLIONS --
20 million by stalin from georgia once he made himself dictator in russia -
the 12-16 million by hitler
the millions others in their respective regions...
in the "modern" era of NATIONS that we recognize today ....
which ONE has had the greatest number collected?
it's the USA.
10 million indians , plus 20 million africans that died as slaves.
30 million PLUS.
PRECEDING hitler, stalin , pol pot, idi amin , vietcong, the french in morocco, and modern day israel.
bligh4
I assume that when you say "Americans" killed all the slaves of the slave trade, and killed many of the natives of North American and South American continent- you are not talking about only what happened in the future and current borders of the United States.
Anyone that has cracked a history book would know that fully 95% of the slaves in the slave trade (not counting the 11-20 million in the Arab slave trade) went to other places in the hemisphere than the future United States. The most concentrated Native American societies were likewise mostly located elsewhere.
Not to excuse the behavior of the US government- but if you want to find the prime perpentrators look to the Spanish, Portuges, Brazilian, and English. Probably in that order.
"to somehow diffuse how many were killed or caused to die by the americans in Indochina"
How did you reach that conclusion?
"not forget how at least 10 million native indians were genocidally gotten rid of by america"
Simply not true. See above.
By the way, you should check out your figures on slaves in Anerica. There were about 22 million slaves taken from Africa and about 4% at most were brought to America. 20 million slaves were killed? Don't think so.
.Thomas, Your figures fail to include those enslaved who were already residing here. I have seen estimates of millions slaughtered by the invading and conquering conquistadors, especially, Cortez, Pizarro and Ponce de Leon.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Maybe we can learn from the English--they never conquered the Irish, as they conquered the Scots and the Welsh. So they kept on fighting for hundreds of years. Finally, each side got tired of the killings and decided to live and let live. So, the Irish live side by side with the British--protestant by catholic.
So, maybe the same will happen to Palestine-Israel. They'll get tired of the killings and live with one another, side by side--Muslim by Jew. A neutral 3rd party to get the two sides together will help as would the US withdrawing all its military and financial help to Israel.
The english did not conquer the Scots. In the 1600s it was a Scottish King who took the throne of England; James I. They are a very canny bunch, the Scots, for centuries now the english think they have ruled their own country.
"So, maybe the same will happen to Palestine-Israel. They'll get tired of the killings and live with one another, side by side -- Muslim by Jew."
Oh. You mean like before the Eastern European Khazar invasion which began in the early 1900's, culminating in the declaration of the Theocratic "Jewish" State of Israel, when indigenous Jews and Arabs lived together in peace. Please re-read Graeme's comment from above, reproduced below.
Graeme December 15th, 2008 1:34 pm
Yeah, except the Jews fought on the side of the Muslims during the Crusades, defending their common cities against European aggression. This is worse.
-- EKATON --
The idea that we Americans are collectively responsible for the genocide of middle eastern goyim may have some merit....especially among those who are being arrested, tortured and murdered by our (ahem)ally, Israel. If we really enjoy freedom of speech and assembly...and if we really object to the Nazi-like behavior of Zionist Jews toward (non-Jews), in this case, Palestinians, then who or what is keeping us from screaming boody murder from our own rooftops? Maybe we are, but the preponderance of Jews in the American corporate media propaganda stream mitigates against the dissemination of that information. Say, who owns the airwaves, anyway?
Most of the comments show that people have drunk the "religion" kool-aid... wake up, it's the [control of] oil and oil pipeline routes.
http://freepublictransit.org
Harvey,
The Zionist War Party In America
http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=234
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5061.htm
'Israelization' of U.S. Middle East policy proceeds apace !!!!!!
Its only 60 years of Ethnic Cleansing supported by the USA with $10 Billion/year !!!
What's happening in Gaza demonstrates why religions of all kinds should be banned, thrown on the scrapheap of history.
In Gaza we have fanatical Jews battling fanatical Muslims with no end in sight to the hatred and killing. In India we have Muslims battling Hindus. In Iraqi we have Christian capitalists killing two separate groups of Muslims to get oil.
Let's give religion a miss. It's all a bunch of silly, fanciful superstition anyway!
www.dangerouscreation.com
I agree about the religious ban.
What is happening in Gaza and in particular the Mid East is not religious in origins but Geo-political.
The Jews were expelled from Jerusalem in 79 CE (current era) after having broken treaties with Rome three times. They were 'reestablished" by the Allies in 1948 as a method to permanently place an Allied presence in the area. They have enjoy a tremendous amount of support with money and technological aid and none of the assistance has been legally supportable. Zionism is simply an another method for the world powers to maintain an illegal hold on what in 1948 was known to be the future area of conflict.
Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Turkey and several other smaller "nations" were established by the same allies who would win WWI.
Now the religious fanatics are lining up to die for their cause, without really understanding that they are just players, much like chess pieces that others move at will for their own enrichment.
Israel does not have the right to exist at the expense of the Palestinian people, any more than any other people have the right to do the same.
Even the U.S.A. exists at the expense of the Native Peoples.
All of these injustices compel others to justify terrible acts of violence in the quest for "justice".
If there were the existence of a God, it would be difficult even for a God to justify one people existing at the expense of another.
Human kind has a very long way to go to reach enlightenment, Religion has never been anything but a poor excuse for one group to hold power over another. "If" humankind can keep from destroying itself it may out grow the need for a "God", and accept repsonsibility for their own actions.
As Mark Twain once said "If is the middle word of l-if-e"