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TechnoratiSaving the Big 3 for You and Me...
A Message From Michael Moore
I drive an American car. It's a Chrysler. That's not an endorsement. It's more like a cry for pity. And now for a decades-old story, retold ad infinitum by tens of millions of Americans, a third of whom have had to desert their country to simply find a damn way to get to work in something that won't break down:
My Chrysler is four years old. I bought it because of its smooth and comfortable ride. Daimler-Benz owned the company then and had the good grace to place the Chrysler chassis on a Mercedes axle and, man, was that a sweet ride!
When it would start.
More than a dozen times in these years, the car has simply died. Batteries have been replaced, but that wasn't the problem. My dad drives the same model. His car has died many times, too. Just won't start, for no reason at all.
A few weeks ago, I took my Chrysler in to the Chrysler dealer here in northern Michigan -- and the latest fixes cost me $1,400. The next day, the vehicle wouldn't start. When I got it going, the brake warning light came on. And on and on.
You might assume from this that I couldn't give a rat's ass about these miserably inept crapmobile makers down the road in Detroit city. But I do care. I care about the millions whose lives and livelihoods depend on these car companies. I care about the security and defense of this country because the world is running out of oil -- and when it runs out, the calamity and collapse that will take place will make the current recession/depression look like a Tommy Tune musical.
And I care about what happens with the Big 3 because they are more responsible than almost anyone for the destruction of our fragile atmosphere and the daily melting of our polar ice caps.
Congress must save the industrial infrastructure that these companies control and the jobs they create. And it must save the world from the internal combustion engine. This great, vast manufacturing network can redeem itself by building mass transit and electric/hybrid cars, and the kind of transportation we need for the 21st century.
And Congress must do all this by NOT giving GM, Ford and Chrysler the $34 billion they are asking for in "loans" (a few days ago they only wanted $25 billion; that's how stupid they are -- they don't even know how much they really need to make this month's payroll. If you or I tried to get a loan from the bank this way, not only would we be thrown out on our ear, the bank would place us on some sort of credit rating blacklist).
Two weeks ago, the CEOs of the Big 3 were tarred and feathered before a Congressional committee who sneered at them in a way far different than when the heads of the financial industry showed up two months earlier. At that time, the politicians tripped over each other in their swoon for Wall Street and its Ponzi schemers who had concocted Byzantine ways to bet other people's money on unregulated credit default swaps, known in the common vernacular as unicorns and fairies.
But the Detroit boys were from the Midwest, the Rust (yuk!) Belt, where they made real things that consumers needed and could touch and buy, and that continually recycled money into the economy (shocking!), produced unions that created the middle class, and fixed my teeth for free when I was ten.
For all of that, the auto heads had to sit there in November and be ridiculed about how they traveled to D.C. Yes, they flew on their corporate jets, just like the bankers and Wall Street thieves did in October. But, hey, THAT was OK! They're the Masters of the Universe! Nothing but the best chariots for Big Finance as they set about to loot our nation's treasury.
Of course, the auto magnates used be the Masters who ruled the world. They were the pulsating hub that all other industries -- steel, oil, cement contractors -- served. Fifty-five years ago, the president of GM sat on that same Capitol Hill and bluntly told Congress, what's good for General Motors is good for the country. Because, you see, in their minds, GM WAS the country.
What a long, sad fall from grace we witnessed on November 19th when the three blind mice had their knuckles slapped and then were sent back home to write an essay called, "Why You Should Give Me Billions of Dollars of Free Cash." They were also asked if they would work for a dollar a year. Take that! What a big, brave Congress they are! Requesting indentured servitude from (still) three of the most powerful men in the world. This from a spineless body that won't dare stand up to a disgraced president nor turn down a single funding request for a war that neither they nor the American public support. Amazing.
Let me just state the obvious: Every single dollar Congress gives these three companies will be flushed right down the toilet. There is nothing the management teams of the Big 3 are going to do to convince people to go out during a recession and buy their big, gas-guzzling, inferior products. Just forget it. And, as sure as I am that the Ford family-owned Detroit Lions are not going to the Super Bowl -- ever -- I can guarantee you, after they burn through this $34 billion, they'll be back for another $34 billion next summer.
So what to do? Members of Congress, here's what I propose:
1. Transporting Americans is and should be one of the most important functions our government must address. And because we are facing a massive economic, energy and environmental crisis, the new president and Congress must do what Franklin Roosevelt did when he was faced with a crisis (and ordered the auto industry to stop building cars and instead build tanks and planes): The Big 3 are, from this point forward, to build only cars that are not primarily dependent on oil and, more importantly to build trains, buses, subways and light rail (a corresponding public works project across the country will build the rail lines and tracks). This will not only save jobs, but create millions of new ones.
2. You could buy ALL the common shares of stock in General Motors for less than $3 billion. Why should we give GM $18 billion or $25 billion or anything? Take the money and buy the company! (You're going to demand collateral anyway if you give them the "loan," and because we know they will default on that loan, you're going to own the company in the end as it is. So why wait? Just buy them out now.)
3. None of us want government officials running a car company, but there are some very smart transportation geniuses who could be hired to do this. We need a Marshall Plan to switch us off oil-dependent vehicles and get us into the 21st century.
This proposal is not radical or rocket science. It just takes one of the smartest people ever to run for the presidency to pull it off. What I'm proposing has worked before. The national rail system was in shambles in the '70s. The government took it over. A decade later it was turning a profit, so the government returned it to private/public hands, and got a couple billion dollars put back in the treasury.
This proposal will save our industrial infrastructure -- and millions of jobs. More importantly, it will create millions more. It literally could pull us out of this recession.
In contrast, yesterday General Motors presented its restructuring proposal to Congress. They promised, if Congress gave them $18 billion now, they would, in turn, eliminate around 20,000 jobs. You read that right. We give them billions so they can throw more Americans out of work. That's been their Big Idea for the last 30 years -- layoff thousands in order to protect profits. But no one ever stopped to ask this question: If you throw everyone out of work, who's going to have the money to go out and buy a car?
These idiots don't deserve a dime. Fire all of them, and take over the industry for the good of the workers, the country and the planet.
What's good for General Motors IS good for the country. Once the country is calling the shots.
Yours,
Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
MichaelMoore.com
P.S. I will be on Keith Olbermann tonight (8pm/10pm/midnight ET) to discuss this further on MSNBC.
75 Comments so far
Show AllMaking extra money during a recession will help people keep their finances in order while the majority of the country is struggling through a bad economic situation. Despite the recession, things will eventually get better and people can then decide whether to keep it up and continue making extra cash or to take a load off and enjoy the long-awaited economic upswing. Recession is an ugly topic to ponder. A lot of people suffer during a recession, with a down economy and loss of jobs; it can certainly feel as though Armageddon is on its way. Armageddon probably isn’t on the way. Some people can still qualify for a personal loan to weather a personal recession of cash due to a sudden expense. If you need a personal loan of some kind, first you better have a job, and second, do all the appropriate research and make sure you’re not getting signed up for funds from a company that will essentially own you and your house, car, arm, leg, and first born until the world ends. The best thing to do is keep your head up and stay active in whatever you need to do to weather a recession.
jonabark
The CEO blues, by jonabark
Give it to me baby, cuz cash is really true
and the others sure don't outsource the way I do
No the others just don't outsource, they don't build'em just to die
they don't guzzle, they don't pork out, got no pretty TV lie
My lear jet's in the garage and baby I'm so blue
but the others just can't outsource the way I do
no the suckers gotta work as long as they are able
cuz they don't know the magic of cash under the table
I love it when you whisper the ' b' word in my ear
You're my only congress, now come on over here
I drove it all the way you didn't like it when I flew
but the others just don't outsource the way I do
Yes I drove my little hybrid, and I wrote a poem too
I know that you will love it , cuz all the lies are true
No the others just don't outsource, they don't build'em just to die
they don't guzzle, they don't pork out, got no pretty TV lie
Sure they make it last, when things fall apart they're true
but the others just don't outsource the way I do
sierra7
America
The Big Three
R.I.P.
2009
Any intelligent person not blinded by propaganda knows what has to be done. Michael Moore is not a genius, just an average guy with superior film making abilities stating the obvious. The problem is that our country is so corrupt, and has been for so long, that we've forgotten how to make any real changes. The powers that be (large companies) are in control and they are not going to give up that control. They will throw money around to get their way (as they've always done) and if that doesn't work, they will assassinate and commit murder and carnage. They not only own our government, they own the military. They are masters of the bottom line mentality (which says that you do what needs to be done to get what you want).
I pity those who are hopeful because of Obama. His main task is going to be how to create the most effective window dressing for the same old shit that's been going down ever since Eisenhower give us fair warning. He's probably smart enough to get away with it.
jdmon George, I agree with 99% of what you are saying, but one thing we have "going" for us is that the total (economic, political, military, etc.) situation is SO bad now that "they" want the Democrats in office now to be faced with solving all of these problems. Except that the whole purpose of everything that is happening is to destroy the middle class and wipe out most of the poor people on this planet so that the ultra-wealthy can survive without worrying about class warfare. I just don't know that they are ready to totally apply their plan right now. I hope they think there will be too much resistance but you never know. There could be some kind of "terrorist" attack that allows the inauguration to be "postponed". WHY DON'T THE BANKS LEND THEM THE MONEY!!
Has President-Elect Barak Obama read Michael's commentary? If not, let's see that he does.
Dear xyz: The other countries in the world use a fraction of the oil imports expended in the US - why do you think this is true? Could it be our reliance on the automotive/oil industries control of our options since Ford/GM screwed us?
Why don't we have bullet-trains, maglev, and all those other things that can be found even in some Third World countries? Will saving the Big3 change this? Wouldn't it be cheaper just to buy out all the workers and retirees? Do the math. Stupid is as stupid does.
Buy outs sound more like something Wall Street would come up with - absolutely no productivity but big pay outs. I think the US auto makers need to change to the production of more hardware for public transportation, super efficient and long lasting vehicles.
Ford & GM are big companies...the employees pay for the failure of their management. The government has protected these companies from improvements they should have been required to make.
This is a big mess but I think it will only get worse if they go under. You can ask the former auto worker next to you when you are standing in the soup line in a couple years.
xyz, the argument that we should save the elite establishment from itself to preserve benefits for the people is getting buried now along with the rest of the laissez-faire capitalist ideas. R.I.P. The people can take care of themselves.
The american auto industry is asking for a loan commitment from the federal government - not a bailout. It amounts to about what we spend in two months in Iraq (a total waste of money). The auto industry is one of the few manufacturing enterprises left in the US. If is goes, I think you will see much bigger problems for the american economy. We gave hundreds of billions to Banks and investment firm who didn't make anything but created a house of cards on corruption and there is virtually no oversight.
Now, an industry where average americans could earn a decent wage and have decent benefits like all of us should have is getting trashed. Are people just jealous because auto workers are getting what others should be getting. Why not bash the banks and their employees? If we had national health care and other national benefits, these wouldn't even be an issue.
If America were the Titanic, I think failing to help the auto industry, would be like looking for more icebergs to hit so the ship could go down faster. Sure, the auto industry needs to change and government has its share of the blame for letting them get away with a lot of things ...but this is an important and vital part of our economy and one of the few viable manufacturing industries in American.
I agree with this article. We need to nationalize industries that impact the public: transportation, utilities, health care, pharmaceuticals, oil, insurance. My response to people who claim (correctly) that the government is not very good at running anything, I say we will have better luck making the government competent than making capitalists socially responsible. This is, of course, socialism, so it won't happen until we either get tired of being sodomized by privateers or the current system collapses the rest of the way into rubble.
While GM is asking for more money and hinting that if they can get it they will turn over a new leaf and make efficient cars, etc. Well right now there is an Ad promoting huge trucks running some kind of obstacle course and bragging they are getting somewhere around 20 miles a gallon. Which leads one to realize that the vehicles the big three are making are products of huge advertising campaigns to sell such gas burning monsters. Something about manliness toughness driving around in over built piles of junk whose main purpose is to take one from point a to point b. So here is an idea. Instead of bailing these companies out give them work. Set up a program that the big three make very efficient electric vehicles and then take these electric vehicles and replace every gas guzzling vehicle in the country for free. This can be done on a voluntary basis. A note for those that want to keep their self centered gas guzzling vehicles require a $10 dollar tax a gallon.
I totally agree with every one of Michael Moore's proposals.
(Imagine how much intellectually poorer we would be were it not for Moore cutting through the crap on health care, transportation, jobs, gun violence.)
Joe
We let engineering grad students from MIT Berkely Cal-Tech etc, the country's youngest but brightest run the big three who are each tasked ONLY ONE THING. One lays the light rail, one makes the light trains and one makes electric hybrid cars. And bicycles. Ecologists work with them.
You just keep telling them straight, Pal. You just keep telling them straight.
In Love All Ways
Years ago, before I grew up, I worked on the line at Generous Motors. From time to time I got laid off, no payout, just goodbye. It was that job insecurity that took me to pastures new and ultimately a life where I was the boss. Of course no responsible government should take the reins of industrial companies, but they do. Right now the French president is in the act of bailing out Renault cars, but then the French are used to their government owning everything, that's why they always languish behind the rest of Europe. But the French also have an enviable welfare and health care system too, courtesy of the taxpayer. I have a Honda car I bought new 12 years ago, from time to time I've repaired it. But it still runs well enough to be entrusted to take me on a five thousand mile journey around Europe now and then. Frankly that car will see out at least another five years no sweat. So why would I need a new car? To impress my neighbors perhaps?
Moore is right about one thing reliabilty is the keynote. If your US made car isn't capable then get a foriegn car it doesn't even have to be new.
Just to digress a little from the subject. I have my import company in Eastern Europe been at it for years. I have often seen really good products made in the US and have tried to get the makers interested in doing business. I have never succeeded yet in doing that business. When US manufacturers don't bother to answer requests or put up viable offers, because they just don't understand how commerce works outside of the US. Or maybe they're just too darned lazy to go and chase business prefering to sell Asian made imports to equally gullible Americans, small wonder they're in trouble over there.
I owned a 1998 Toyota Camry. I loved the car except for one little excentricity; it wouldn't start sometimes. Dealer had no idea why. Replaced several parts to no avail. Traded it in on a Buick stationwagon. It always started. The paint faded early on, but I could go where I wanted or needed.
I think Mr. Moore's idea of "retooling" the auto industry to make trains and buses and electric cars is a fantastic idea!
If GE can make engines for airplanes and locomotives, why can't GM make trains?
When will the elite oligarchs run out of "shocks" to rationalize their raiding of the public treasury? When Comrade Bush and his wise guy consigliere Paulson finally leave office if we are lucky. Although given the appointments of Obama to date, it is hard to believe much in lucky anymore.
Poet
I certainly feel for the employees and their families. As for the companies themselves...not a dime, until they come up with plans to start producing fuel efficient cars. Electric cars even better. But of course, producing larger cars also means larger profits. How much longer before they learn from Toyota, Honda, Subaru, etc. etc.?
A couple of points.
First of all Japanese workers actually earn more in Japan than their American counterparts in the U.S. averaging over $3,600 a month (before benefits) while paying less taxes and having universal healthcare. Americans working for Japanese car companies in America earn less because simply put... they can get away with it here. Bottom line is despite unionized, higher paid autoworkers in Japan, the Japanese produce more popular cars while not having the financial problems that their American competitors are experiencing.
Secondly Moore is correct in the need for American companies to produce the cars that Americans want and need. Electric cars are not some far-fetched, futuristic concept. A simple tax on internal combustion (IC) cars used to offset the price of non-IC cars would propel the shift to a greener and more sustainable alternative with much more urgency. However the Big 3 repeatedly display an arrogance and a lack of vision every time they face the public and our elected officials. This is due in part to the fact that the Big 3 have had an unholy alliance with Big Oil since the Model T.
Nationalizing the car industry is not necessarily the way to go, but regulating the industry so as to force them to produce the cars of tomorrow (rather than the cars of yesterday) is prudent. If the Big 3 resist, then Michael is right to suggest that the public steps in and assists this vital industry into transforming itself to meet our national interests. As it stands right now, each time you fill up you gas guzzling SUV, you're doing more to support terrorism and national insecurity than any other act in your daily lives.
Many of the other contributors here at CD's are correct to point out too that other 'civilized' countries have a vastly superior method of transporting their populations around than we do. It would be great (but unrealistic) if every American could travel abroad to witness other societies rather than relying on our biased, Amerocentric MSM for comparisons. But unfortunately our MSM (sponsored in big part by Big Oil and the Big 3) is committed to keeping the public in the dark while reinforcing the status quo.
.Those golddurn facts keep slipping in there:
TOKYO: Japanese workers' wages were little changed in March, the government said Monday, and economists say job prospects will improve, sustaining a consumer-led expansion of the world's second-largest economy.
Average wages, which include overtime, commuting costs and bonuses, slipped 0.2 percent in March to ¥282,888, or $2,489, from the same month a year earlier, the Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare said in a report released in Tokyo. The ministry began surveying more companies for the report last month, which contributed to the decline.
"The underlying movement is generally positive," said Azusa Kato, an economist at BNP Paribas Securities Japan. "The fluctuation in the numbers reflects a change in the survey sample."
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/05/01/bloomberg/sxyenwage.php
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
TRANS PO’S
STILL UNSAFE AT ANY SPEED -
ALL OIL BAD CAR KARMA GREED
A LINCOLN IN BLACK
GOLD ROLLS PASSED DOORGUARDS
DOWNSIDE WIDESTREETS
FAST CAR TO AFFORD SUPERFARMARKETS IN
CARNIVOROUS AINT ATE STATES
CADILLACS & CARNATIONS BLOOM DOOMD BOMB/BOOM!
JOINING JONI INCOME TAXI
WE GOT PARKING LOTS OF LOST
AND FOUND BIG GREYHOUND BUSSES
EMBARKING UP THE WRONG TREE-FREEWAYS
NO FARE:
NUMISSED--
MUNI METRO ROW,,
SO SLOGO LOCALOCO..
MONEYDAZE SOONDELAYS.,
CROWDEAD COMPLAIN BUSTRAIN IN VAIN!
AINT PROOF OF PAYMENT A POOPED-OVER-POPULATION?
WHERE WERE U 9-11-2/?
COMEPLANE--COMEPLANES
THEN ANTHRAX CAME FOR
SOME MORE HORROR ATAX
AMBUSHWACKS LIE WRACK
WARDEADDEBTOR INSTEAD
OF AVIATION TRUSTFUND
AND HIGHWAY TRUSTFUND
LESS POINTLESS ARROWS
BUY THE BULLET TRAINS
CRISSCROSS WANDERLAND
ON BRAND NEW TRAX AND
LIKE POST OFFICE MAIL
RE-FUND AMTRAK’S SAIL
DOWN GOES THE AIRPLANE INDUSTRY
COULD AMTRAK BE ALL IT COULD BE
I THINK IT CAN - I THINK IT CAN
STEAL FUNDING FROM THE MILITARY
- Gg Re
poetreefree.us
The money would be better spent if used to send as many ignorant stupid Americans as possible to visit CIVILIZED countries and see how things are supposed to work in a modern First-World country. How can Americans change anything when they've never seen how good a country can be? (There are at least 40 countries far superior to the US in so many ways that everyone can find a suitable place to visit - and LEARN. Maybe then we wouldn't have this endless cycle of misery and corruption...
One thing about 'army brats' - we get to travel around the world and compare notes - and eye-opening experience if you've only been exposed to American propaganda. (My family is CONSERVATIVE, by the way - just not FASCIST.)
Please stop repeating Republican propaganda about US auto workers making $74.00 per hour. They average $28.00 per hour.
The $46 difference is calculated from health care and pension costs including what's paid to retirees. This is like including $$$ paid to social security and medicare recipients in the "average salary of the American worker".
So the $74.00 figure is a complete "apples vs. oranges" distortion.
What this country needs is maglev trains.
http://www.o-keating.com/hsr/maglev.htm
http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/Summer03/maglev2.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maglev_train
"You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model which makes the existing model obsolete"
-R. Buckminster Fuller
My wife nearly died in an accident from a Chrysler auto and the police and us were able to take on Chrysler and make them pay. The Big 3 need to take lessons from the foreign auto manufacturers first and foremost before making dangerous "cheap" quality vehicles and ripping us off with it. Henry Ford is probably rolling in his grave these days !
Hey Moore !
What happened to Single Payer Heath Care ?
You Lazy good-for-nothing CLOWN !
I'm holding out for a solar-powered jet-pack built from the parts of a used AMX Javelin.
Michael Moore is singing zionist tunes apparently to keep his film distribution deals. Why else would he ignore the progressive truth? The people do not need the elites and their concentrated consolidated enterprises. Moore should know this. We've spent the past two years at least discussing and working toward real progressive change to shatter the public delusions that the people need the elites. We don't need Detroit. We don't need any concentration of wealth, power. We don't need these greed-stricken idiots. How much more evidence does it take? Let the whoe capitalist house of cards go up in flames, people! Build your cars in your local shops! 1000 lbs, 20 hp diesel for 150 mpg. Add electric drive for 200 mpg. Oilweed production on 1/5th acre yields fuel for 2000 zero-carbon miles per year. This is the progressive way.
.Errr Zionist tunes? Could you perhaps elucidate what the hell you are talking about?
.Is this a hint that you consider Hollywood a bastion of Jewry? What next, the twelve Rabbi's who rule the world?
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Michael Moore, another great article, one of the most underappreciated Americans. If the DLC-run Kerry campaign had used any of his great stuff from Fahrenheit 9/11, bush would've been terminated in'04. And, meditate on the significance of that for a moment.
I say follow the good example set by some of the Latin American nations and nationalize the industry, along w/oil. And then, reconvert some of their capacity to making train cars.
Someone told me that part of the problem is that the workers, that is UNIONIZED workers make around $74 dollars and hour. Also these UNION workers, if they are laid off, the car maker is to pay for 2 full years to these folks, at 90% salary.
When these folks retire, they continue to draw close to 100% salary, plus medical benefits for themselves and all their dependents.
Contrast this with the Toyota plant in the USA, I understand they are NON-union, and they make $27 dollars an hour, with none of the other benefits stated above.
Is it evident to everyone why Toyota makes a profit, and why the US automakers Do NOT ?
I would support to bail out the big 3, BUT ONLY IF:
1-they first file chapter 13 and get rid of the UNION, then offer the workers that wish to work for a living the same wages and benefits that Toyota makes.
2-fire all the top management and executives at all these three automakers, and re-establish new blood, perhaps with some of the Toyota management or similar, and with the same minimum management structure and same reasonable salaries as Toyota.
3-the big 3 could only produce for the first 3 years the economy good mileage cars that they currently sell in Europe (under other names). They could subsequently start building larger cars, as long s they met a very high mileage standard.
The bailout would be a LOAN, not a handout, to be repaid in xx number of years, with each of the big three's stock as collateral.
.Much of what you posted above is myth. The $74/hr figure includes all benefits. Retirement income is based upon length of service and your statement implies a blanket pension that does not exist.
Compare and contrast the money paid to executives at those firms, Ford's CEO makes 20 million a year plus huge bonuses and a retirement that ensures great luxury for life.
.Toyota plants in the USA pay essentially the same as do the big three, by the by. You seem a bit callous with the lives of the auto worker, are they not entitled to paid vacations, medical benefits, etc.?
Our own elected politicians get pensions for life to which they pay not one red cent, same with lifetime medical, why are we the working class not eligible for such? The problems with our automobile companies are self generated and not due to union contracts. They make crappy cars and gas guzzling road hogs in an era of smaller and more economical vehicles being sought by the consumer. By the by, the Chevy Malibu is, according to independent industry magazines, a better vehicle than the Toyota Camry. So it can be done, and without throwing the worker out with the bath water....
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
"Someone told me that part of the problem is that the workers, that is UNIONIZED workers make around $74 dollars and hour."
Who told you that? Rush Limbaugh?
UAW members earn $27/hr on average. This $70+ you get is complete garbage. The automakers take all outlays for pensions and medical care for all employees and RETIREES and divide that by the number of actual workers. Why are people so stupid that they would believe this $70/hr BS!? Limpdick, Insanity, O'liely, USA Inc. , and the MSM push this propaganda. It's amazing how many people actually buy into it.
And Toyota is nothing to admire. They probably have more in common with the big 3 before the 1930s. Abroad they are strikebreakers, low wages, long hours, and dictatorial. The only reason foreign automakers pay decent wages is because of UAW wages. Most of the government and business want the big three to fail. It will help to further reduce wages for all working men and women and continue to lower our standard of living.
Unfortunately or not, the idea is to create auto companies that do not need to replicate Toyota but instead strive and succeed in surpassing it.
The whole problem in US automobile manufacturing recently is that in trying to duplicate what is happening at Toyota they are always playing catch up. That looks like, and always did look like, fear. They need to be better than Toyota. They need to make the people who work for them feel better about working for them than workers at Toyota feel about working for Toyota. The Union can be a part of that or not... As long as they are a better Union than exists now, better at integrating worker need into excellent production standards and invention, and are better at coordinating with management to create and maintain outstanding benefits and worker investment with product excellence, there is no reason why a Union can't be a integral part of a new US auto industry. I imagine they could be a (or THE) very important part of creating it... but they have to shed their skin and their antiquated culture of top down rewards and management just like the companies themselves do.
bobv, Detroit does not want to copy Toyota. Detroit is not interested in delivering value to the auto market. For the ones in control in Detroit, selling autos is not the end but only the means to an end. The end for them is to contribute to the USA's geopolitical dominance by providing a heavy industry reserve to the Pentagon, promoting nationalism and materialism, contributing to economic growth, supporting the elite establishment by keeping Americans dependent on it. These are not conscious goals, but rather are requirements understood subconsciously, conveyed through the elite networks by winks, nods, grunts. If Detroit wanted to deliver REAL value to the market, Detroit would have to buck the elite establishment which would greatly agitate the Pentagon, Wall St., the energy sector, and the other nodes in the elite establishment. There's only one way to look at Detroit: A gargantuan racket.
The progressive way is localism, so cars are built in small shops. They are made very light, powered by small engines and driven lightly. Small local biofuels farms supply the fuel. Public transport is expanded and made efficient and cheap. Everyone knows the solution.
I agree with Moore's proposals to nationalize the auto industry and force it to become "green," but he knows as well as I do it'll never happen. Wouldn't happen under Bush, won't happen under Obama. Everything they've done so far to bail out the financial thieves sector, and are about to do for the automobile moron thieves, is all about shoring up capitalism, protecting its elite class of major investors and CEOs. Obama won't nationalize the auto industry any sooner than he'll push for single-payer health care. The top priority of both wings of the Business Party in D.C. is to rescue capitalism from its worst excesses and allow it to continue any way it sees fit. We can't have government meddling in the private sector! No matter how incompetent, negligent and ultimately self-destructive it is. So, Moore is right, but Obama isn't listening to him any more than he is to Kucinich about impeaching the worst criminal in US history. Obama's there to save the system, not change it or in any way threaten it. The CEOs, like the Wall Street pirates, will prevail. And we'll all lose.
Dead on, Ephraim.
It might be better to take the money being proposed for a bail out of the Detroit auto companies and invest it as the start-up of other American auto companies. However unrealistic it is to propose that the bigwigs in the big three would refrain from what ever it took to stop such a venture, it still might be worth a try. These guys have had plenty of time, and plenty of impetus over the past thirty years of market share losses, to come up with products that are economical, evolving toward green, and attractive to consumers. Once past the Ford Escort the big 3 gave up all attempts to compete in a world market that they seemed to be unable to admit was actually sucking away their customers with smaller, more economical, and more reliable vehicles.
The SUV market's immediate profitability quotient never really had the potential to outlast the obvious onset of the phenomenon of dwindling oil supplies, the warming of the planet, and the absolute requirement that to bring US automakers into the next century their products had to do more than speculate on other fuel economy gimmicks that, in the end, use more energy than they save and were never refined enough to bring to the marketplace except as half-assed PR gimmickry. SUVs may have appeared to make the companies a lot of money per vehicle, but in the meantime people like me were, first, priced out of the American car, and then forced to admit that a Subaru Forester at ten years old is more economical to run, and safer to drive, than any hybrid American SUV.
The argument that Americans themselves propelled SUV popularity and that GM, Ford and Chrysler merely produced according to market demands is as near to delusional as any reason not to change can be when one considers the over-all losses American automakers have sustained in market share over the past thirty years.
So instead of investing in a failing industry that continues to blame its hourly workers and middle managers and make them sustain the full brunt of their lousy decision-making and loss of creative edge, why not use the money wisely as a start up for a whole new company with a hand-picked cadre of the out-of-the-box thinkers who have either left or been shoved into complacency and compliance with the moldering cultures in the existing auto companies.
Hell, I just flew on Air Tran, and am convinced that in order to make it, new companies are often more likely to succeed because they are less likely to be holding on to the dead weight of petrified blind leadership that only has its own replication and reinforcement in mind… and has forgotten that customer service is key, wide affordability and reliability is essential, and innovation and genuine workable invention is irreplaceable as PR… at least one hell of a lot more so than are new head and tail lights.
Of course, once could just give the money to the existing US auto companies. I am sure we could expect that a good portion of the money would be spent on a colorful and compelling ad campaign that promises change in almost every way possible… but then delivers the same old trash and humbug.
Anyone remember the Soviet system? You really think it's a good idea? Central planning? And how did that turn out...?
As nice as MM's plan sounds, the US government should not be in the business of running the auto industry. It would be a bureaucratic and logistical nightmare.
Look, we shouldn't just keep giving out bailouts forever. But right now we are in the middle of a crisis. I support Obama (remember him? That guy MM worked tirelessly to elect?), and I support Obama's decision to fund the bailout of major industries in America.
Why? Because like him, I also care about working-class people. I know MM comes from working class roots, but for the past 30 years he's gotten extremely wealthy from his Hollywood movies. Perhaps that's why his comments on this subject are so detached from reality. Whatever you think about the Big 3, it's beside the point, people's jobs are at stake.
Anyone remember the family evicted from their house on Christmas in "Roger and Me"? Okay, now if we don't bailout the auto industry, picture that happening to tens of thousands of people, all at once, all during Christmas. Call me insane, but I believe that keeping a families from spending Christmas Day in a homeless shelter is worth spending some of our tax dollars on. After all, we spent far more than this on AIG, why not help out the working people as well?
.A somewhat false analogy....
Comparing the USSR to the USA is more than a stretch. Remember that those were the guys who sent up large wooden desks in their first space stations.
Obama chose to support the funding of Wall Street, not exactly a reason to suggest he supports bailing out all our major industries, or has he said something about that to you?
A major concern is whether pouring money into this maw of capitalist failure will gain the taxpayer anything or will it simply delay the inevitable? So far the vast sums spent to aide the banking system has shown little if any value, tried to get a loan lately?
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Charlie Wilson’s Tanks
It's going to be a sorry day when Detroit metal fades away
fins and chrome and status quo we can believe in aeh?
what ....no more nuckie in a rumble seat?
How you going pimp a de tuned Honda?
Tell me about your ride Jane Fonda
What about all the posers for the future wagens to be
and Charlie Wilson’s war tooling one up you see..
Let victory pose on undone tanks
with schandenfreude... thanks
Many moons ago, before Michael Moore the Flintoid was an international celebrity, our paths crossed at some anti-nuclear rallies and other lefty events here in mid-Michigan. Glad to see he's still out there fighting the cause. Here's my take.
First, if a penny of public bail out funding goes to Ford, the first requirement (seriously!) is that the Ford family divest itself of its most blatantly under-performing asset - the Detroit Lions football franchise.
Everything that is wrong on the day-to-day shop floor at GM, Ford and Chrysler is mirror imaged in the way the Lions football franchise has operated for the last forty years: constant, abrasive clashes between union and management often over the pettiest of issues, zealous exercise of traditional management prerogatives, ruthless adherence to a fixed salary structure heirarchy pitting skilled trades versus semi-skilled trades versus peons vs taxi-squad third party contractors, and above all else, a fierce and stubborn loyalty by the ownership to back up their current executive team come hell or high water - no matter how utterly stupid their past decisions have been, how demonstrably incompetent the current job performance is, and no matter how bad the end product is shown to be when finally exposed in the bright lights of the marketplace. The Big Three treats its workers just like the Detroit Lions treats its players. They are all interchangeable pieces of meat. And you will never be allowed to forget it.
So if we're going to subsidize the American auto industry in exchange for a package of committments to change, Congress should insist first that Ford sell off the Detroit Lions, so we can all focus back on the transportation business.
Second, the auto execs' weird performance in Washington DC has rekindled deep suspicion among many UAW folks in this neck of the woods that much of the bail out posturing is designed to pave the way to what GM in particular really wants - a bankruptcy filing, so they can cheat their long time employees and retirees out of the health insurance benefits the company contracted to provide at the collective bargaining table over the last half century. This is a not so hidden agenda. And there is now precedent from the airline industry for using bankruptcy filing (or the threat of bankruptcy filing) as this sort of an in-your-face union control technique under the guise of corporate restructuring.
Heads I win. Tails you lose.
Bill from Saginaw
Have to respect a guy from Saginaw talking about cars and football. I guess Chevy and Ford may become nostalgia like Mike Lucci, Alex Karras and Lem Barney. Drive the Prius to work and play with the SS 396 on Sunday.
Clue Factory Closure (Outsourcing the Difference We Used to Make Right Here)
Who Knew?
http://flickr.com/photos/garysoup/2868918051/
We MUST have the most expensive mode of transport because we MUST grow the economy at all cost because we MUST dominate the planet economically, militarily. YOU MUST DO YOUR PART AND BUY A 3.5 TON SUV OR YOU WILL BE ENSLAVED BY THE ISLAMIC CALIPHATE. Do you love your freedom or do you not?
-the beast
Yes, buy them out and throw them out!
I'm all Tuckered out over dealing with Edsel's revenge. How about back to the simple life of the Model T?
With flex fuel of course - petrol and natural gas and a little battery to assist acceleration and breaking...
A GEO Metro would work as well but the motor would not sound as nice.
I'm still waiting for my jet-packs.
I have no further interest in their products, whatsoever. Therefore I have no interest in subsidizing them anymore than any other business. Let them go the way of past companies that failed their customers. Look at the demeanor of these three CEOs. They don't have a clue. Look at that (GM) building... are they full of actual people doing anything of value? Really?
Lost jobs are lost jobs. They aren't any more special that the other hard working Americans that have lost their jobs or industry.
Stick a fork in them, their (over) done.
.A riddle wrapped in a conundrum.
First Michael Moore article I have enjoyed in a long time. The issue isnt the ineptitude of the Big Three auto makers, the issue isnt the crappy cars they make either. The issue is the hundreds of thousands of jobs dependent upon the industry.
I foresee a foreign buyer who recognises the value of the dealer network in place and buys GM. I would make, as a proviso of any loan to Ford, the retirement of the CEO, the guy who first refused the relinquishing of his twenty million a year position in order to get a multi billion dollar bailout. These guys are clueless, arrogant and have run their companies into the ground for years. Chrysler products suck, Fords burn gas like we were all oil sheiks and GM thinks a forty mile range for an electric car is the be all and end all, screw em all, nationalise the damn companies and keep the employees working on better products. Socialism rocks!
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
What I don't understand is how, exactly, our Big 3 can continually produce such a shoddy product. It's not like they don't know their product is sub-par, or that a sub-par product is bad for business. It's not like the UAW is filled with unskilled morons, either, seeing as how they seem able to produce superior products for Honda and Toyota.
So what's the deal?
1. Cultural difference: Japan's auto builders focus on perfection using SPC and robust designs. America's are "smart". They "know" what is "good enough". The BS attitude is from CEO to the supplier's workers who make the rivets.
The workers aren't necessarily the morons. Often its the workers who have figure out how to build cars that don't leak, squeal and rattle when plant management won't replace the worn out tooling.
2. The Big Three are locked into yesterday's financials: Lavish contracts, retirements and medical for hundreds of thousands of retirees, old plants... The Japanese don't have these problems, have more money to invest in better cars, and can break even on fewer sales.
3. With today's modular construction and the above quality "attitude" combined with the financial pounding the Big Three give automotive suppliers results in lots of very expensive repairs for problems with tiny components.
The QS-9000 quality system (and newer TS16949)intended to improve quality and cost has been turned into paper chase nightmares of alternating BS and near bankruptcy.
IMHO, Ford is the closest to turning the quality attitude corner.
4. Globalization and competition. As big as these companies are, the only affordable Big Three cars for today's $12.00/hour no benefits worker are the Cobalt and Focus. There are dozens of models in this class from Japan, Korea and elsewhere.
don't forget that Japan, europe and canada have universal, single-payer healthcare so the companies don't have to pay for "medical for hundreds of thousands of retirees".
this alone makes them more competative than the US big 3.
.+I wonder at such as this:
"2. The Big Three are locked into yesterday's financials: Lavish contracts, retirements and medical for hundreds of thousands of retirees, old plants... The Japanese don't have these problems, have more money to invest in better cars, and can break even on fewer sales."
Are you advocating that , once a worker's utility is ended he simply be cast off? A worker who spent thirty or more years toiling in an auto plant needs to eat and needs medical access as much as does a young worker, even more due to age of course.
Obviously the money invested in pension funds and medical insurance cannot be used to refurbish plants etc., but that simply doesn't negate the necessity for that benefit.Perhaps there are better systems which should be installed, one might be nationalized health care of course, free to all. What I wonder is your solution to pensions?
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Cars need to be replaced with Personal Rapid Transit(PRT) systems. These are overhead rail systems that act like elevators; they deliver on cab from station to station without stopping.
Cars and trucks require asphalt that local governments can't afford.
Light rail requires that streets be torn up to move underground infrastructure.
PRT systems can be installed at 1/10th the cost per mile of light rail and deliver people and freight from station to station without intermediate stops. They can have small cabins like cars and deliver freight pods as well.
Check out http://www.acprt.org/ or http://www.jpods.com/ for some proposals. The oil age is over but light rail is simply too expensive in most locations. PRT is a better option.
Fighting the forces of rather dim lighting wherever they may be found!!
I had a great desire to design a project in school based on a personalized monorail system.
I was told that it was impractical, and people movers have never worked in this country, and are highly subsidized elsewhere. Well now I find out the record profits of the oil inudstry are also highly subsidized.
I loved the websites- thank you, Pangolin
Love
Zero
Hi there,
Don't give up. There's always room for talent and growth and a lot of times what gets rejected and/or abandoned always finds its place. You just have to find someone who will give your ideas a thought and convince them to spread the word and the ideas. I too faced hostile hell as a substitute professor when I tried to actually help entire classes understand computer science. I was forced to leave but never gave up teaching outside for help. While I moved on, some of my former students who were very fond of the way I taught CS took after me and my wife was convinced that I better move on and so I did. If there's one lesson I learned from losing my two legs and an arm in Vietnam and getting kicked out by hostile college departments, it's this. Never ever give up what you have to offer. Hang in there braveheart !
By the way, do you have a website ? I'd be interested in helping you get your design ideas and innovations spread. And I don't do it these things for money but out of pride and courage even in the face of a hostile rigged system.
Two legs and an arm?
You are a true hero, and your heart is indeed braver than mine will every be.
I wish you and your family the best in life, and I hope you a find a home for your unconventional ways.
I do not believe in God, but I do believe in prayer. I will pray for you.
Love
Zero
Aw thanks. I wished I didn't have to lose my limbs but misfortunes happen when one serves out there. After I got back from Vietnam as Nixon pulled out, finding employment was just hard as hell even in the 1980s but we settled for a home and we didn't go for all those teaser deals that would lead to foreclosure. I used to live in VA but moved back to TX. Thanks for the prayer. It was tough at first but through the years I wouldn't let my disabilities get in the ways of success no matter how hard my opponents would try to exploit it. I hope you're able to make it out there. Do you have a website or something of the likes for me to visit by any chance?
P.S.: With the economy even worse than the 1980s and even the 1970s once the Vietnam War ended, I can already see that as the soldiers from Iraq return, it's going to be even tougher. Today alone, it was even more bad news to find out the rise in military divorces as if the 1 out of 2 divorce rate in this country weren't bad enough.
1991 Toyota Previa - 260,000 miles. 0 breakdowns.
1991 Toyota Camry. Shared by four households. No problems, ever.
Joe
After years of buying Japanese only, I decided to buy an American Product. We just had our first baby and were planning on building a small nucleus. We started to look for a minivan. The Japanese products were out of reach financially for us at that time. So we bought a highly rated oldsmobile, 2 years old for what we thought was a bargain. 32,000 miles on it.
Within two years of owning it, I was told that the pistons in the engine were shot, after a long road trip. It would cost me more than half of what I owed on the car to fix everything that was wrong with it.
I lost some money, but traded it in that day for a Honda.
Love
Zero
A lot of American made vehicles are poorly designed from the onset. Unfortuntely, the unions are wrongly blamed and not the piss poor management that put profits ahead of quality. My wife almost lost her life when she got into an accident with a Chrysler auto as the car nearly exploded on her. Luckily, the police on the highway pulled her out of the car and before he gave her a ticket, the car exploded and it was later proven that a manufacturing defect, not her, was responsible. All charges were dropped and we were able to force the company to compensate though they did it via out of court arbitration. Them Japanese vehicles sure are expensive but I choose life over "cheap" but dangerous quality. Losing money isn't always a good thing but in this case, think of it as saving your life all the way. You won't regret it.
As usual, Michael Moore gets it! Nationalize the big 3 and then use those resources, means of production and skilled workforce to create a green future.
Buy out the car makers, give each American equal shares in non-transferable stock in these companies and let We the People decide what to do in yearly shareholder's meetings.
Question for the economists in the crowd: If the Big 3 shut down completely, would people stop buying cars? Or would they start buying that many more cars from Toyota, Honda, etc? And if they start buying more cars from those carmakers, wouldn't that mean more dealerships, parts suppliers, mechanics, etc. right here in the US that focus on those makes of car?
One clarification to bolster Michael's case against further car production by the big 3:
The big three have not made one penny in profit from cars for at least a decade. The profits have come from:
1) financing the cars they sell (interest and fees)
2) SUVs
3) trucks
Excellent!
If more folks in the US had even a fraction of Moore's common sense, the planet would be a much different place. And even liveable!
Moore: "I care about the security and defense of this country because the world is running out of oil -- and when it runs out, the calamity and collapse that will take place will make the current recession/depression look like a Tommy Tune musical".
Close but not close enough. The automakers produce every vehicle, including tanks, which the military needs. The Pentagon is not going to ask Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Citroen, BMW, or Volkswagen to build "green" tanks for us, will it?
Sorry for you Michael but as always you overlooked the crux of the issue in this case the production of military stuff. That will not be allowed to go under by Bush or by Obama. Grunts in Iraq and Afghanistan do not like having to march to the "front lines"; they want to be brought there by motorized lorries.
Than build shit for the Pentagon if it must, but green cars for civilians.
Once upon a time people bought cars on three-year loans. Then it was five-year. Now they offer a six-year payback. If you put it on the home equity line of credit and pay the minimum it's a 15-20 year payback.
The point -- people won't be able to buy cars until they make more in wages and can afford to pay them off faster; domestic or foreign. The auto makers have "borrowed" future sales because of the extended payback times.
Sorry America, time to pay some bills instead of borrowing more and more, ad infinatum.
If I were the Chysler dealer, I'd worry about mistreating MM! He might come back with cameras and satire at the ready! As far as I can tell about the "plan" the big three are bringing to Capitol Hill, the automakers appear to know only that they want a piece of the bail out pie so they can blithely continue making cars that are about as fuel efficient (sometimes less so)than the Model T.
I worry about people losing their jobs (and the ripple effect job loss would actuate), but do we really want to subsidize makers of obsolete and environmentally harmful products? Maybe the idea of retraining workers for jobs that would develop newer,greener technologies and our infrastructure makes more sense.
How about giving the billions of $ to the consumers with good credit and stipulate they have to use the $ for a down payment on a new car from one of the big three? For all you people that do not recognize it, since it is Michael Moore, I am being facetious.
Maybe the Auto Companies are in trouble because of Mortgage Loans gone bad. I know GMAC does Auto and Mortgage Loans. And I also have a Chrysler, and it also has a problem with starting, low idle. The mechanic quoted me 505$ yesterday, and maybe that will fix the problem, or maybe its the injectors(more money), even he doesn't know? Great, Merry Xmas!
Silence is Consent.
http://www.greenforall.org/blog/neighborhood-stabilization-program
Hey Michael - you are loved the world over - the link looks like a possibility to build on.