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US Launches First Predator Drone Attack in Libya
WASHINGTON – The United States carried out its first drone strike in Libya on Saturday, the Pentagon said, two days after approving the use of pilotless aircraft to aid rebels fighting Moamer Kadhafi's forces.
A US Predator unmanned drone armed with a missile, pictured here in Afghanistan in June 2010. The United States carried out its first drone strike with a Predator in Libya on Saturday, the Pentagon said.
(AFP/Massoud Hossaini) "The first Predator strike in Libya occurred today in the early afternoon local time (our morning time EDT)," a US military press spokesman said in a statement sent to AFP.
But he said there would be no further information about the target or where the strike occurred. "Per common practice we are not providing any details," the spokesman added.
US President Barack Obama on Thursday authorized the use of missile-carrying drones in Libya for what his administration called "humanitarian" reasons.
Rebels, battling to oust veteran leader Kadhafi after four decades in power, have bogged down despite a NATO-led operation launched last month to provide them with air cover and target pro-regime forces on the ground.
They welcomed the decision to send in the drones, which have been widely used in Pakistan and Afghanistan, despite controversy over the deaths of civilians caught in the cross-fire.
The NATO military alliance says the unmanned drones and their precision will give the coalition forces more options, especially in urban warfare.
"The use of drones will make it easier to target Kadhafi forces in crowded urban areas. A vehicle like the Predator, that can get down lower and can get IDs, will better help us carrying out the mission with precision and care," a NATO official said.
Intense fighting on Saturday gripped Misrata, a port city east of Tripoli, overwhelming its hospital with casualties after Kadhafi's regime gave its army an "ultimatum" to take the besieged Libyan city.
At least 10 people were also killed and 50 wounded in the street battles after NATO air raids struck near a compound in the capital Tripoli where Kadhafi resides.
The Pentagon spokesman said in an earlier statement that it is "standard procedure not to discuss specifics about UAV (unmanned aerial vehicle) missions in any theater of operation."
75 Comments so far
Show AllI'm so proud of US for protecting the civilians.....
I'm joking, of course.
Do you honestly believe the US is protecting civilians ? Or aure you being ironical ?
Pardon me;I did not read your entire post.
WAR CRIMINALS ! ! !
So this is what our "civilized" world is evolving into - one more habit-forming and violent video game, where the guy with the joystick is judge and jury.
What? We're only taking out known terrorists and war criminals? Then maybe the "trigger man" for the cowardly and completely shameless drone attacks should be Mohamed ElBaradei.
"the guy with the joystick is judge and jury"
So simply said the disgust of out of control - drone killing.
...And WIKILEAKS is wicked?? We need Wikileaks more than ever.
Rebels asked for drone strikes? Our "friends" Pakistan hate us for our Drones.
Iran had better watch out. We are running out of countries to attack and bomb.
Oh? Mexico and Venezeula have oil.
So does Canada and the border is already drone patrolled.
Israel isn't bothered by Mexico and Venezuela.
The fact that we are willing to lose control of the oil countries in the Americas
in order to skewer ourselves in the Middle East
is proof that it's not really about oil.
Just a matter of time before I'm banned.
And we have yet to see any members of the Obama administration be impeached or indicted for war crimes and crimes against humanity.
"The economic root of imperialism is the desire of strong organized industrial and financial interests to secure and develop, at the public expense and by the public force, markets for their surplus goods and their surplus capital. War, militarism and a 'spirited foreign policy' are the necessary means to this end." -John Atkinson Hobson [1858-1940], English economist
"The world is drenched in mutual slaughter...Held to be a crime when committed by individuals, homicide is called a virtue when committed by the state." -Saint Cyprian [3rd century], Carthaginian bishop and early Christian writer
"There is a demand today for men who can make wrong appear right." -Terence [ca. 190-159 BC], Roman playwright
"Name me an emperor who was ever struck by a cannonball." -Charles V [1500-1558]. Holy Roman Emperor
And we have yet to see any members of the Obama administration be impeached or indicted for war crimes and crimes against humanity.
not to mention the george wanker bush admin...................
Who bombs?
Obama bombs!
No bombs!
Nobama!
No bombs!
Nobama!
Hooray for our side!
Don't think of it as "mission creep". Think of it as jobs, jobs, jobs!
It's a win-win situation. Those Predator drones don't build themselves, you know.
Not yet, anyway...
PS: Don't mind me; I'm just trying to get in touch with my inner Juan Cole. I understand that he's still chuntering along, insisting that the US/NATO kinetic military action, aka "humanitarian intervention", in Libya remains, on balance, a worthy and commendable mission.
"US President Barack Obama on Thursday authorized the use of missile-carrying drones in Libya for what his administration called "humanitarian" reasons."
---------
Whew !!!
Glad it wasn't for oil ...
That's what everyone at the market was bitterly saying.
I'm going to print this out and show them PROOF that they are wrong.
Obama would never lie.
Drone for Humanitarianism!!!
Hiel Obama !!!
Support U.S. Democratic Fascism!!!
It's a good thing the drones weren't available when Israel attacked the USS Liberty. We would have made certain that there were no survivors.
"The use of drones will make it easier to target Kadhafi forces in crowded urban areas. A vehicle like the Predator, that can get down lower and can get IDs, will better help us carrying out the mission with precision and care..."
Any responsible reporter would follow this idiotic statement with a reference to the hundreds of reports of drones killing wrongly "ID'd" persons.
"Excuse me, can i see your ID?"
Of course, as the evil machinery continues to grow exponentially more sophisticated, it is only a short time before the drones ARE, literally, speaking to us, as they hover above us...
AND, anyone who does not think "us" when thinking of drone targets, better go in for a check-up on their humanity, as well as their grasp on the trajectory of collapsing empire...
Webwalk, that passage really got to me too, particularly 'crowded urban area.' Could there be a worse place to put the lives of civilians in danger? Is this something any rational person over the age of 10 would believe?
They have lots of room and urban centers to practice on right here at home. Cloudy days are a great cover. War only pays when its 'over there', so far.
Meanwhile, also back in the US where the drone pilot sits:
I have noted an anti muslim surge again-online which is interesting considering how many Israelis are living here now. Is this Americas big fear too? Note to dual Israeli citizens, Welcome. You are not in Israel. You are in the United States of America with our own unique history. We have lived side by side with muslims and most every nationionality represented in one Country. Mostly at peace with each other until 9/11/2001 brought on by Saudi highjackers. Don't bring your loud hate of muslim people, fear and racism here. Americans are fed up with it. We are one human race. Good Planets are still hard to find.
"But he said there would be no further information about the target or where the strike occurred. 'Per common practice we are not providing any details,' the spokesman added."
why does the phrase "oops - collateral damage" come to mind?
"standard procedure not to discuss specifics about UAV (unmanned aerial vehicle) missions in any theater of operation."
'theater of operation'..............theater being the operative word. 'the comedy of errors'..............................
It's a comedy of MURDER- and like everything "they" do, it is NOT funny, humane, fair, just etc etc etc ad nauseum.
Wake up. In about twenty days the country of Libya will be in DEBT to the IMF or WORLD BANK. They are going to bury this country in DEBT, all according to plan.
Bingo.
step 1 blow up a country we want to control
step 2 loan the country the money to have Bechtel rebuild
step 3 keep loaning until country is way beyond its ability to repay
step 4 commence ownership of country
What we rally need for starters is an 'Idiots Guide To Military Dictatorships'. Unfortunately there is none. But I do ponder about writing a book. Like "How To Rid Yourself From A Military Dictatorship - An Easy Guide To Get Back To A Civilized Life".
My father always told me not to stick my nose in a quarrel between husband and wife. That's what marriage counselors are for.
I think the same goes for dictators and their people. That's what the UN is for.
I agre Ezeflyer. I thought the UN okayed our helping the citizens of Libya fight their revolutionaly war. .
"The UN buckled to bullies. Nothing less, nothing more." That's it and that's that. Really sophisticated argument with lots of evidence to back up assertion. Kudos.
Not exactly.
The UN resolution authorizes members to take "all necessary measures" to protect civilians and civilian centers.
It was specifically intended and implemented to respond to the alleged "humanitarian crisis" of the prospective wanton mass slaughter of civilians, presumably by Kadhafi's forces.
It had nothing to do with directly intervening one way or the other in Libya's "revolutionaly" [sic] civil war.
That objective arose solely from the utterly predictable and expected miracle of "mission creep".
The USA's drones look VERY easy to shoot down. And everybody knows the USA has for a long time persistently violated the UN charter of which it is a signatory, effectively rendering the USA internationally lawless... Quite a mix that instituted evil and foolishness. Karmic boomerang coming soon!
The USA's drones look VERY easy to shoot down. And everybody knows that the USA has for a long time persistently violated the UN charter of which it is a signatory (via warz of choice), effectively rendering the USA internationally lawless... Quite a mix that instituted evil and foolishness. Karmic boomerang coming again soon I suspect!
And its all for the good of the people of Libya.
Just like Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan,
The US will look after their oil for them After all, its always been US oil.
For BP, Exxon-Mobile, Total, Shell, those declining oil monsters,
and their extra market "forces". Business is war business. Just another
corporate take-over.
The US military needs its oil, so they have to take over more nations, because it needs its oil. And oil is running out. The US is running out of countries it can take over, just because it says it can.
Whoever wins, the main deals will be all about oil, and who gets to control it, and how much is paid. The oil mafia did not like Ghaddaffi, since he insisted on Libya having too much of its own take. So this about enforcing the profit and supply share of the top oil profiteers, as always.
All I can figure out is that Obama's gran never bought him an original Atari system back in the latter '70s . . . I wonder if he bothers to look at what the O-drones do . . ..
I sure do hate to stick my neck out here and get blasted, but I am looking at the flip side of the coin. First of all; I was never in favor of Bush starting the illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanstan and believed Obama should have ordered our troops be immediately pulled out of both countries the day after he was sworn in as president. And we should not be using drones in Pakistan either.
The deal in Libya is not the same thing, not at all! The citizens, the people, most of them, in that country begged us to assist them in their revelutionary war to oust their long time crazy dictator and have a democracy. They "begged" us for assistance as our forefathers begged France to assist us in our revolution for freedon from the King of England. France helped us or we would be driving on the wrong side of the roads, talking funny and eating kidney pies. Yuk!
So We helped the citizens of Libya and then backed off a bit and allowed NATO to help. NATO was not a big help so we have gotten back into it wih these unmanned drones. The drones are very effective most of the time. Most of the time and like all wars there sometimes are deadly errors.
However; since our president, our elected governmnet, has taken the option of helping the citizens of Libya oust their crazy and evil dictator, then perhaps we should seriously consider supporting it too, or complain about it, that is our right also. I choose to support this one and complain about the others. And I do.
The Germans have a cute expression for your view of how Obama's war in Iraq began. It is "Wie sich der kleine Fritz die Weltgeschichte vorstellt" or "How little Fritz views world history".
For openers what is your evidence that "most of Libya's citizens begged us to assist them in their revolutionary war"? That you have sucked out of your thumbs. In fact, at least one faction of the rebels did not want us "to help" because they knew very well that outside interference would be the end of their control of the uprising. That has already happened with the importation of several Libyan-Americans by the Obama regime and now of NATO advisers. Remember how the Vietnam war began? Or were you not yet born? It began with advisers to the Diem regime. To day the so-called Libyan revolution is already completely controlled by outsiders thanks to Mr. Obama's interference.
For a second, the comparison of the Libyan uprising with the American Revolution of "our forefathers" is hilarious because the "helpful" French did not bomb England to defeat the nasty King George. They remained safely at home and sent only one General named Lafayette to America. Wait, Lafayette was not sent, he volunteered. So if you will have your wish Mr. Obama should stop the bombing and send General Petraeus to Libya to accept the surrender of Kadaffi?
For a third, the reason why "we backed off and allowed NATO to help" was, in my opinion, a condition of the Pentagon for doing the "no fly zone" over Libya, a condition that your hero Obama swallowed with the disastrous consequence that he must now escalate the bombing of Libya to secure his re-election in 2012.
For a fourth, when a bomber or a drone sends its explosive charge down to Earth the bombardiers do not know for sure what exactly is underneath, a fact that has been proven over-and-over-and-over again in Pakistan. The drones over Libya will kill persons sympathetic with the uprising because, as you have averred "most citizens of Libya favor the revolution". They will also kill Libyans who are neutral in the conflict such as children. In this respect there is absolutely no difference between Pakistan and Libya. Nor is there a difference between the current aerial bombing of Tripoli and the past bombing of Berlin or Dresden. These bombings are, in part, intended to terrorize the people that support Kadaffy into surrender.
For a fifth: "NATO was not a big help" you aver. Have you written a complaint to Mr. Sarkozy and Mr. Cameron? Or to the NATO pilots? I am sure they will appreciate your view.
For a sixth: "crazy dictator". I infer that you are a psychiatrist who has treated Mr. Kadaffy in your own office or else in his palace.
"Wie sich der kleine Fritz die Weltgeschichte vorstellt"
_________________
This must be the same "Fritz" responsible for the idiomatic expression "on the fritz".
Nice rebuttal.
You have posted so may false assumptions and errors I don't know where to begin to reply but will attempt it. First among the founding fathers I refer to are George Washingtion, Thomas Jefferson, Alexamder Hamilton, Benjamin Framkllin, Thomas Paine, The Adams brothers, Paul Revere, Nathan Hale and none were perfect as none of us are. And indeed some of the rebels had greedy reasons, but they did pen our Decleration of Independence and began a new form of government that had never been seen on this planet. Was it perfect? No, but there were none better then or now. The problem now is we have allowed that document to become a piece of paper and are now a fascist form of government ruled by big business.
You do not know the history of our Revolutionary War. France sent thousands of troops and a huge fleet which turned the tide at the battles of The Chesepeake and Yorktown. Gen Cornwallis surrendered to George Washington which essentially ended the war. Witthout the vital help of the French the Patriots would have been defeated by the Brits, primarily German Hessian troops. I won't go into the gory details for you but you may wish to read up on it so you don't sound so horribly foolish and ignorant on the subject again. I'll post a link for you.
Next, I never said "everyone" there begged, many did you cite a few who did not. If Obama had not received the approval of the UN and acted as he did, Kadaffi would have slaughtered thousands of his people if we had not helped, including those you have cited.
As to the NATO forces not being very effective. Well listen to the many repoeters who are covering the story (on site). They say the NATO forces have not been effective in destroying tanks, artillary and heavy weaponry. That is exactly why we are now using the drones.
You wrote, " For a fourth, when a bomber or a drone sends its explosive charge down to Earth the bombardiers do not know for sure what exactly is underneath". Sorry, but you do not know what you are talking about. The operators of the drones can read the name on a golf ball from 30,000+ feet and tell you the color of a person's eyes. There have obviouslly been some very serious errors by operators and there is no excuse for it. That probem must be addressed and eleminated. The drones are excellent weapons for taking out tanks, artillary and other heavy weapons without killing innocent civilians and that is what they should be used for. The good people there deserve a chance to eleminate a "crazy", evil dictator.
And you mentioned Germans, well all Germans are NOT of the mid set you posted. And this Libya fight is nothing at all like Afgan or Pakistan and for anyone to say so is utter nonsense..
Fianlly; I have attacked no one here for posting their opinions. I appreciate fair, decent, honest debates without name calling or false assumptions. You wrote, " For a sixth: "crazy dictator". I infer that you are a psychiatrist who has treated Mr. Kadaffy in your own office or else in his palace."
Nope, wrong assumption, but he has well proven to be a paranoid schitzo, or crazy and he is and has been an evil dictator for 40 years. I am quoting the many shrinks who have that opinion. I think that is enough replying.
Would you have preferred that we didn't do anything and that thousands of protesters who as humans should have the right to protest were slaughtered like rats, pigs or sheep? And it all began with peaceful protests, Kadaffi's army started the killing. Would you please answer that fair question? Thanks.
Hi Crowsnest, and for you also Obedient Servent, since you thought Crowsnest was so accurate. Here is a link which concerns the French involvement with our War Of Independence and part of a paragraph from the ariticle in the link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_in_the_American_Revolutionary_War
"The arrival of his dispatches prompted the Franco-American army to begin a march for Virginia. De Grasse reached the Chesapeake as planned, and disembarked troops to assist Lafayette's army in the blockade of Cornwallis. The arrival of a British fleet sent to dispute de Grasse's control of the Chesapeake was defeated on September 5 at the Battle of the Chesapeake, and the Newport fleet delivered the French siege train to complete the allied military arrival. The Siege of Yorktown and following surrender by Cornwallis on October 19 were decisive in ending major hostilities in North America."
What is very ironic is thousands of American "Loyalists" fled to Canada and thousands of the hated German Hessian troops who were prisoners of war and many of those who surrendered when the war ended opted to stay in Amreica and settle here. Germantown, Pennsylvania and areas of Bucks County PA and Princeton, New Jersey were three of their major settlements at that time in American history. Many of the Hessians married female Loyalists they had met during the long war.
Quite interesting. Then we had brotwurst and cold beer, instead of kidney pies and warm beer. So you see, sometimes war is not all bad.___ Not serious there.
I quote you: "So you see, sometimes war is not all bad.___ Not serious there".
Except for the bombing of Libya! You gave yourself away. You apparently love good wars like your hero Obama. You were absolutely serious that this is a "good war". I am not fooled by your histrionics.
Now you are not being honest Crowsnest. Where have I ever in my life stated any war is good? I never have. And the quip about brotwurst and cold beer was a joke and I said it was not serious. And obviously you do approve of Kadaffi and his intent to murder thousands of his people. That is your choice and not my business. Bye
"For a fourth, when a bomber or a drone sends its explosive charge down to Earth the bombardiers do not know for sure what exactly is underneath". Sorry, but you do not know what you are talking about."
Precisely. They know exactly what they are going to hit. The question in Afghanistan is *who* is in the building or the car or whatever. In Libya, if there is a tank parked under a tree on the outskirts of Misrata, it is sure as heck not the rebels.
Everyone decries the "inaccuracy" of drones, but compared to ANY OTHER CONFLICT BACK TO ROME, they are safer to civilians than any other method of warfare. If you want to argue that we shouldn't be there or there should be no war, fine, but saying that the drones are indiscriminate, is simply silly.
I will add that I was in Germany when the bombing began and I was told over and over and over by *every* German I met that they should have been there or at least supporting the effort more than they did. They were ashamed that their government was letting people be killed by Gadhaffi's forces and equated his actions to their own in the Second World War. They felt guilt that they were not helping the people more. Granted that is only the Germans I was with, but saying that all the Germans were against it is simply not true.
I don't agree with everything you wrote Wayne, but the assumption here, even if the root cause was and is to preserve a flow of oil, that the intervention was wrong is...
well...
wrong.
Thousands of people are alive today that would not have been regardless of *why* the West is there, the fact that they are there is saving, not costing, lives.
I do not believe that NATO has the no fly zone in Lybya for oil. I do not believe President Obama has authorized military strikes against kadaffi's military for oil and there is no evidence of that. This is not Bush attacking Iraq for oil. This is a totally different operation. And if it was or is for oil then it is wrong and evil.
I do however see that this guy who does not know what he/she is talking about is just a silly big mouth and apparently does approve of Kadaffi murdering thousands of his people and couldn't care less. Maybe he can quote some more "history lessons" for us.
>>The operators of the drones can read the name on a golf ball from 30,000+ feet and tell you the color of a person's eyes.<<
This seems like an exaggeration to me. Please tell us how to verify your statement.
>>all Germans are NOT of the mid set you posted<<
I absolutely hate and abhor this grammatical construction that so many use now. It literally means that not even one German would be of that mind set. It seems to me that at least one German, and probably many more would be of that mind set. Of course, I presume but may be wrong, that what you really mean is that "not all Germans are of the mind set", which means that some are but not all are. This may seem like a nitpick but it is not. Such grammatical constructions, and others, may at some point allow "plausible deniability -- "I never said any Germans were of a certain mind set, and in fact I said none of them were of that mind set when I said "all Germans are not...". Another similar misuse of the language is the phrase, "I could care less", which of course means, "I do care somewhat", when the writer really means, I presume again, "I could not care less", which means of course that, "I do not care at all." These sorts of grammatical constructions lead to confusion and obfuscation.
>>I am quoting the many shrinks who have that opinion.<<
Two is a couple, three is a few, four is many. Name four.
You wrote, "I see a lot in your posts that pisses me off," Really? I am new here at CD, less than a week and have posted only a few comments, mostly on threads about BP, the Disaster in the gulf and the nuclear disaster in Japan. Perhaps you could be more specific about what I have posted that (pissed you off) prior to my three posts here on this thread.
One commenter here at CD named Thomas Jefferson said my posts were excellent. Perhaps you are a friend of BPs crooked laywye Fienberg and or you favor nuclear energy over truly clean energy and don't believe global warming and the resulting climate changes are a fact and perhaps you favor the use of DU ammo? So what exactly were the MANY posts I posted that pissed you off? Those are the issues I posted on. I do believe global warming is a fact and BP and his lawyer are crooks, and I favor clean energy, which does not include nukes, I abhor the criminal use of DU ammunition. Those are the things I have posted and that pisses you off! Okay. Maybe you have confused me with someone else?
If you favor the fact that Kadaffi (sic), was about to slaughter thousands of his own people who began with peacful protests, then just say so. Obama went to the UN received approval and stopped that slaughter. None of it is good or nice, no wars are good. NONE! Sometimes they are necessary for ones own protection. Kadaffi actually started the war with his own people years ago and they got tired of it and protested and now it is a civil revolution and many of them begged us for help and we are helping them. And no, they didn't all beg for help. We could have stood by and let Kadaffi handle it his way and without help thousands would have been slaughtered. Would you approve?
I made it perfectly clear that I did not support Bush's wars and I did not appreciate it that Obama didn't immediately pull our troops out of Iraq and Afghan and he should have eleminated paying for Blackwater troops among other things he should have done. I did not support Obama and I am not a republican either.
The drones and or AC-130 gunships are excellent, incredibly effective when operate correctly for spotting and taking out individuals or taking out heavy artillary, tanks and armored vehicles day or night. They are not easy to shoot down either, but they can be. I don't believe they should be used where civilians are nearby. Give the good people there a chance to take out Kadaffi by taking out his army's heavy weaponry. They deserve that chance.
You also wrote, "You are a textbook example of a US government shill." Really? Well; I haven't been here at CD long enough for you or anyone else to make that false judgment about me. You are (assuming). I believe our government is fucked up royally and we are actually now a fascist government ruled by big business and have previously stated that here on another thread.
I am no "shill" for our government or anyone else and believe we should have a multi-million people, peaceful, silent, long time marching protest in DC and shut it down until they reply to "We The People", start over and do it right, as the original Thomas Jefferson said we should do whenever necessary.
Now do you favor allowing Kadafi the means to murder thousands of his citizens like Hitler and Stalin did? Except those two murdered millions. Do you, yes or no? And finally; I don't make childish comments against those who have a different opinion on an issue than I have. I appreciate fair, honest, civil, adult debates. Do you?
.
Can you reference this textbook for me so I can purchase it through the U.S. Government Printing Office? Sung: "In the shill of the night----"
Thanks.
Trylon
Before you buy any books, see about learning how to (comprehend) that which is written.
The answer to their begging for assistance would have been to assasinate Khadaffi with a well placed cruise missile. Looks like that might well be policy now anyway.
there's a country that's currently murdering civilians in 7 nations
http://tinyurl.com/3kv5llt
if u're so into *hamunitarian bombing*, how about sending some drones that way ?
What would you do denk?
i repeat dreamjoehill's question which u didnt answered
*How do you know how many people Qadaffi would have killed?*
otoh,
amerikka murdering civilians in 7 countries is a fact
if u cant see the difference there's no point carrying on