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US, Israel Escalate Threats Against Flotilla, Including US Citizens
A co-founder of the right-wing blog RedState (and former Bush speechwriter) created a mini-controversy over the weekend when he issued a sociopathic endorsement of Israel's possible shooting of his fellow unarmed citizens on a flotilla currently sailing to Gaza; that flotilla is trying to deliver humanitarian supplies to Gazans and protest the ongoing Israeli blockade:
When asked by Israeli-American journalist Joseph Dana -- who is covering the flotilla for The Nation -- whether that sentiment applies to the shooting of journalists on board the ships, this was the reply:
Condemnation of this outburst was pervasive but also easy: cheering for a foreign army to shoot unarmed protesters -- one's fellow citizens -- is self-evidently warped; that this came from a right-wing war-cheerleader-from-a-safe-distance with endless pretenses to uber-patriotism just added a layer of irony (Dear Foreign Nation: go ahead and shoot and kill Americans).
But over the weekend, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton also gave her views on the flotilla, and while her rhetoric was somewhat more restrained than that quoted above, she also seemed to endorse possible violence by this foreign nation against her own country's peacefully protesting citizens:
Well, we do not believe that the flotilla is a necessary or useful effort to try to assist the people of Gaza. Just this week, the Israeli Government approved a significant commitment to housing in Gaza. There will be construction materials entering Gaza and we think that it's not helpful for there to be flotillas that try to provoke actions by entering into Israeli waters and creating a situation in which the Israelis have the right to defend themselves.
Though Clinton's language was draped with the subtleties of diplomatese, there is little doubt that she, too, is justifying a potential attack by a foreign government on unarmed American protesters (ironically, Clinton's remarks came at the same Press Conference where she impugned the patriotism of others -- namely, critics of the Libya War -- by branding them as "on Gadaffi's side").
The perception that Clinton endorsed possible Israeli violence against Americans is bolstered by the conduct of the U.S. Government in the wake of Israel's attack on the prior Gaza flotilla, when Israel killed 9 people, including the unarmed 19-year-old American citizen (and Turkish citizen) Furkan Dogan. While most governments instinctively condemn the killing of their own unarmed citizens by foreign armies -- Turkey was furious at Israel for months and world leaders in virtual consensus harshly condemned the Israeli aggression -- the Obama administration almost immediately took Israel's side, culminating with Joe Biden's disgusting rhetorical question, posed before the American teenager was even buried: "what's the big deal here"?
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Show AllTypical fascist sentiment. This is what I mean when I say that we have not reached full-blown fascism yet, despite the fact that the US demonstrates most of the key elements of fascism. When the restraints are really lifted from these thugs, and they are allowed to carry out their desires unrestrained by the remnants of the American judicial system, we will see what fascism really entails. Murder of journalists with impunity, disappearances and torture of leftist dissidents, and general thug rule.
Nice that Hillary Clinton essentially gave Israel the green light to kill Americans BTW. Why not just give them the green light to nuke American cities?
In a sane society, wouldn't she be prosecuted for treason?
Exactly. Amazing how many people in this shitty country don't even see what we are becoming/have become. The VAST majority of American citizens don't even know what fascism is - they think of swastikas and goose-stepping SS brownshirts and Adolf Hitler. PERIOD. And even if they could get off the couch long enough to read up on it, and see that America is - as you stated - already exhibiting most of the key elements of a fascist dictatorship, they wouldn't give a rat's ass.
America and the principals on which it was founded died long, long ago. The descent continues unabated, into full-blown blatant fascism, as you said.
Move while you can.
While I agree with most of your comment, I disagree that the US ever had any principals. We came to an already occupied country and murdered most of them. Then we imported "savages", horribly abused them then went on to conquer the rest of the world. I am sickened what the US does with my taxes.
I do see your point. However, I think that once, long ago, this country did at least TRY to uphold the principals of decency and democracy. Not in everything - your examples of slaughtering the native Americans, slaves, etc, are glaring examples - but there was at least some pretense towards at least trying to be that "shining city on the hill" during the 20th century. Think of all the progress that was made on labor, environment, women's rights, civil rights, and so forth. Now, however, it is apparent we have abandoned even that flimsy half-assed effort and embraced full-blown corruption and evil.
Progress was made in the aftermath of the defeat of the Axis, when it was widely recognized that US institutions & society were themselves deeply infused with practices which we found intolerable among the Nazis; and in the 1950s, the fascists in the US rode high while civil rights' activists were being castigated largely as 'communists'; ultimately in the '60s & the '70s the lessons of the '40s & '50s had seemed to been learned by the US electorate, all of which began to be turned back when I was in college & a movement conservative (which I regretted in the latter part of the '90s). -- The antebellum history of the US shows just how violent & racist the US was during its period of establishment and expansion. Only the Civil War & the decade following saw any progress, which the whitewashing of Confederate origins & ideology eradicated in the Gilded Age & its sequel, the imperialist age.
Most of the people I know feel exactly as does Trevino. I imagine if Americans are shot or hurt, it won't be in the news for more than a day or so and then relegated to sites like this one where people feel differently.
Right on, DC-CPH. All must genuflect before Zion, because Zion has its tentacles spread throughout the government of the US, at the controls of the "Secret Government." It also controls much of the media so sets the agenda. Anyone who steps out of line by failing to ritually and automatically genuflect before AIPAC and Israel is targeted for removal from office or worse.
I am a Zionist. -- Joe Biden
this is just poltical gamesmanship... while the concentration is on israel's possible use of violence, concentration is taken from the issue of the illegality of the blockade of gaza itself, . and the illegality of israeli actions to halt the flotilla..the americans and the israelis are succeeding. they have taken the initiative from the flotilla and it's reasons. and focused it on the question of the possible levels of israeli violence.
A very clear and astute observation. It would be useful if readers were more aware of these discourse narrowing tactics.
Peace.
Any violence against the flotilla by Israel will result in a backlash and will greatly increase world condemnation of Zionists, maybe even resulting in less standing ovations for Zionist zealots in Congress.
This is a bit naive. Jewish terrorists executed 9 Turks a year ago on the last flotilla, so what is Turkey doing now? Cooperating with Israel, of course, presumably because their US aid was threatened if they didn't play ball.
War has been declared by Israel and its US client state against the human family, and no one is fighting back, because we are still in the happy, joyful, candy-colored fantasy-land of "Ghandian non-violence."
Glenn Greenwald gets it right. This is the old right wing stab America in the back first crowd of the old Dulles' brothers "fame." Need we ask more?
Over,
My comment was tongue-in-cheek, as I don't believe that Israel's world image could possibly drop lower.
Contrast Israel's world image with AIPAC, their servants in US government, and their control of msm
As I just posted above, almost no one I know cares what happens to activists there or maybe here. Just not an issue when they are thinking about planning their vacations or watching baseball.
And here we go - the slide towards all-out fascism increases here in the U.S. Now we have our own leaders and public figures actually endorsing the illegal murder of its own citizens (like Obama claiming the right to order the assassination of any person - American citizens included - anywhere, anytime, on his say-so). No big deal. And lots and lots of U.S. citizens also jumping on the bandwagon, like the Good Germans they are swiftly becoming, demonizing any of their fellow citizens who have the audacity to do anything that appears to undermine or criticize their mighty U.S. government. Check out the blogs on Firedog and DailyKos, and even RawStory (I don't even want to think about the right-wing ones) - lots of people saying that if an American is stupid enough to join the flotilla, he/she deserves what's coming to him/her.
As the next 10 years go by, and the U.S. no longer even tries to hide its fascism, watch just how many American citizens become uber-nationalistic government-supporting Good Germans. Be VERY careful which of your neighbors you talk to, and what you say to them. I'm not kidding. For those still naive enough to think "it can't happen here," you already missed the boat. It IS happening here. And it will continue to get much, much worse.
Again and again, the vile influence of AIPAC manifests itself.
In the face of the obvious collective punishment of the Gazans, the US Gov't, instead of attempting to correct that injustice, threatens its citizens who are trying to alleviate it. All in an effort to curry favour with this tiny minority of American Jews who somehow have gotten control of US foreign policy.
this tiny minority of American Jews who somehow have gotten control of US foreign policy
-----------------------------------
I believe the "somehow" is readily explained: if people want to illegally hire only others like themselves, there are a number of groups that have characteristics distinctive enough to make that a simple task.
Sex membership and race/ethicity are the easy ones. If a White male wants to hire other White males, it's not hard to selectively value certain characteristics over others so that the predetermined decision can be justified.
Religion is more chancy. Someone trying to hire an Irish Catholic would probably not choose William Clancy or George O'Brian, William and George being English "proddy dog" names not favored by RC parents. Francis X. O'Toole, however....
Similarly, if someone wants to stack the deck with Ashkenazi Jews, Joseph Goldberg, Sarah Berkowitz, or Sanford Feinbaum would all be good choices, whereas Meiling Chen, Mary Margaret Murphy, or Khalil Ghibran would get 'thank you for your interest' letters.
So Henry Kissinger is named Secretary of State, and for the next layer down he hires Goldberg, Feinbaum, Hollander, Greenblatt, Vogel, and Kelly, and they hire similarly, and it's not too long til 'somehow' US foreign policy is in the hands of Ashkenazi Jews just as 'somehow' US corporate governments have for ages been in the hands of White men.
It would explain why the publishing, tv, and film industries also have far higher proportions of Ashkenazim than can be accounted for by unbiased selection processes, and why certain companies in the computer industry have far higher percentages of engineers from India ditto.
US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton: "....creating a situation in which the Israelis have the right to defend themselves."
Israelis have rights and Palestinians do not. This is a Biblical concept. God told Moses to cross the River Jordan and kill all 'those people', (man, woman and child), because I want you to have their land - you are My chosen people. God also warned Moses that if you do not, (kill them all), they will forever be a thorn in your side. God was right again! (That or Moses has been seriously BSing us for over 2000 years!) God Himself will be with the IDF when they board the flotilla. Those on the flotilla are obviously all liberal socialists and godless.
Hillary values Israeli lives higher than Palestinian or American lives. Hillary is concerned for the safety of the brave men and women of the IDF and thanks them for their service.
America sold its heart and soul for a few pieces of silver at the altar of capitalism years ago. It was a Faustian bargain.
Okay Hillary, I think I've got it. Israel can kill unarmed U.S. citizens as an act of self-defense. Can Palestinians also defend themselves?
25 % of the passengers on the Audacity of Hope are Jews. I suspect that a good deal more than 75% of the funding was from Jews. While the US media is Jewish, Jews who oppose Israel's occupation and ethnic cleansing are 100% NOT represented by their fellow Jews in our media. Why?
It's not hard for rightwingers to ask innocuous-sounding questions that reveal whether the interviewee is or isn't a fellow-traveler.
The media MUST ignore Jews who oppose Israel's occupation and ethnic cleansing in order to keep promoting the lie that opposing Israel's ocupation and ethnic cleansing is anti-Semetism.
I'm afraid that the preponderance of Jews continue to gleefully support Zionism and Israel through the worst human atrocities. There's no hiding from that.
omng, US CITIZENS are at risk!!!!!
does this mean it's a war???
Since when has the ruling class in the United $tates of Perpetual War Profiteering ever given a damn about U.$. citizens? And especially in regard to the $ociopathic criminal $yndicate in Tel Aviv?
The U.$. ruling class, and their 'psychophantic' lackeys in Congress and main-$tream corp-rat media, have inculcated a large segment of the Amerikan corn syrup population to blindly support the violent, ethno-racist Zionist proclivities for committing crimes against humanity. This includes killing Amerkans who oppose the apartheid, Jim Crow Israeli policies for openly indulging in kidnapping, torture, murder, piracy on the high seas, ethnic cleansing... and genocide in the WARSAW GHETTO OF GAZA!
Aside from being a racist, bigoted, sheep-minded thinker, a KKKristian/Zionist with the insight of a rabid dog, Joshua Trevino is a psychopathic whore for insane tribe-all-eeego and backwards religious dogmess.
My advice? You don't pet rabid dogs. You shoot them!
What is there to say. An armed attack on thr Gaza flotilla is an act of international terrorism. Given the current Israeli anticipatory response, I would hope that Turkey or some other country with a sufficient Navy protects the flotilla. As for what I feel about the matter-mere expletives cannot begin to express it. Let us hope that there is a peaceful outcome. There is no need for violence.
"Israeli waters"
I thought God only promised them the land...
Amazing. This really is a license to kill, and praise to Glen for making a very big deal of this, because it's pretty staggering, as Hillary bloviates out of the other side of her mouth about "human rights" in Libya. Especially when you know that all it took to get the peace flotilla safely to Gaza in 2008 was a phone call from the British Foreign Office. Thus is the life and death of generous people dispensed in the abstract mind of our technocrats and their enforcers. We should all remember this moment, should anyone be killed in the aid mission. We have seen the very words with which our Secretary of State has exonerated murder aforethought.
..and yet some poor souls finally unable to pretend Obama is a good president will talk about how we need Hillary instead. Believe me, it will happen even here at CD.
Hilary Clinton is an enemy of the American people who sold out to corporate interests a long time ago.
I agree. Clinton is a prostitute. She does and says whatever her current owner asks her to say. Dishonest and untrustworthy in the extreme.
Progressive men need to rethink the near-misogynist use of the word "prostitute" to describe corrupt persons. While sexy and titillating, impugning ladies of the night this way is uncalled for. Sex workers provide love, caring and sexual release. Corrupt politicians lead to death, destruction, and social ills. The comparison is horrendous from the get go.
Further, the very concept that women's bodily choices should be the focus of laws is anti-progressive. Respect and value of female sexual agency is ground zero for equality and access to reproductive health care. Until women are unambiguosly free to have unjudged adult consensual sexual relations however they wish, patriarchy and oppression will exist.
As you will hopefully acknowledge, a different word is essential.
According to Craig Murray --
"While I know Ray to be an extremely honest man, motivated by a genuine activist christianity, I tought it was possible that his source was exaggerating. I therefore set my own diplomatic sources to work in Washington, without giving them any indication of Ray’s information. They came back with an independent report from a different source – close to Clinton rather than the White House – with exactly the same result of which Ray was warned. I was told that Obama will welcome an Israeli attack on the US ship, as giving him a chance to confirm his pro-Israeli credentials and improve his standing with AIPAC ahead of the Presidential election race. Fatalities would be “not a problem”.
There was no information that the Obama regime has quietly given Netanyahu a green light to attack the ship. But I strongly expect they will; by deniable means, of course."
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/06/obama-wants-more-dead-rachel-corries-to-boost-aipac-standing/
I continue to believe that this would be a stretch even for Obama. Not that he cares whether Israel kills Americans but whether the perceived benefits vis a vis AIPAC would outweigh the negatives of murdered American peace activists; one here or there doesn't seem to bother Americans -- they even praise the Israelis for killing their own citizens! -- but a whole bunch at once may give people pause. The same PR considerations apply to Israel, though their government continues to legitimately amaze with its own audacious vision.
Rabbis in Israel are becoming increasingly deranged, openly discussing the righteousness of Jews killing non-Jews, including children.
Check out the latest video by Max Blumenthal of Rabbis defending the murder of Goy children and babies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t_LxpCY2G8&feature=player_embedded
Doesn't get much more supremacist/eliminationist than that. I'm starting to see why scholars such as Joel Kovel (Overcoming Zionism) and Noam Chomsky actually take the Samson Option seriously. (the Samson Option is to nuke the world if the Jewish state is existentially threatened). These people are nuts, and they have nukes!
Presumably the "specific condition" mentioned in the video that allow for Jews to murder children and babies of the Goy cattle are those currently at play in Israel/Palestine.
Edit -- I just heard that the American ship is carrying nothing but letters of support from Americans, so the claim that the cargo could "aid the terrorist group Hamas" is even more absurd than usual.
Hilary has attended meetings of the Bilderburg Society. Enough said.
You sound like you could bear learning more about the differences between libertarianism and Libertarianism. They're as great as between communism and Communism.
Paul and the other rightwing Libertarians have hijacked 'libertarian' the same way the Leninists hijacked 'communist' and the Nazis and other dictators of various stripes have hijacked 'socialist'. The Pauls' Libertarianism and, e.g., Chomsky's libertarianism are as dissimilar as a poisonous snake and a tabby cat.
Wow, good question, Katrine. I didn't even notice it was gone til you pointed it out.
It's either a database error or (my guess) another design error of the cursëd Drupal software CD uses: no placeholder to show that logical continuity has been disrupted.
highkarate, a CD poster from waaaay back, wrote the Ron Paul comment.
"... we think that it's not helpful for there to be flotillas that try to provoke actions by entering into Israeli waters and creating a situation in which the Israelis have the right to defend themselves."
Sounds like "la Clinton" is getting ready to shoot US citizens on sight...
And that bit about "Israeli waters" outside Gaza? - It means the US Foreign Secretary is approving Israeli usurpation not only of land, but of sea, too. Or she's not very strong and rather wrong on geography...
Sick and tired of this government putting foreigners first just because they have money and influence. Israel is a blight on humanity, a barbaric racist nation inhabited by a population too blinded by racism and hysteria to see that they are committing crimes abhorent to most humans.
"Israel is a blight on humanity, a barbaric racist nation inhabited by a population too blinded by racism and hysteria to see that they are committing crimes abhorrent to most humans."
As it stands: yes.
Israel should:
1) get a constitution (it's been held up since 1948, awaiting the refused acceptance of the orthodox jews for the UN-defined borders, plus other elements of Jewish religious law clashing with a secular constitution), and
2) stop being ethnic-religiously defined (in the Israeli Declaration of Independence) as "A JEWISH STATE", giving rise to racism both to and from Israelis.
Israel should rather define itself as the land within the UN-accepted 1967 borders - where jews may still be admitted some preferential treatment, on par with what other nations give to their citizens, de facto based on ethnic groupings.
Relinquishing the definition of the state as "jewish" is a requisite for Israel stopping "committing crimes abhorrent to most humans", and letting go of their peculiar attitude of being "victims who rule".
Jews should accept being equal to other people, not a superior "chosen people" by god as their "Book of Books" bible (Talmud) says - which indeed the Israeli Declaration of Independence refers to ("The Jewish people ... created cultural values of national and universal significance and gave to the world the eternal Book of Books").
(See the excellent documentation in "When victims rule" at http://examine.webs.com/ ).
Israel should rather define itself as the land within the UN-accepted 1967 borders
--------------------------------------
What generally-accepted principle supports your idea that the Zionist thieves should be allowed to keep what they stole?
.
The United States should distance its military,,,,,,far,,,,,,from the Israeli Defense Force. These Jewish Thugs and their Fascist Leaders have been killing unarmed civilians, both in Gaza and on the High Seas (in international Waters). These are WAR CRIMES. The surprise attack on the USS Liberty was a Major War Crime.
The United States does not want to be involved with any of Israel's War Crimes ! ! ! ! !
//
It is well to remember that the differences that do exist between what is called fascism and what passes for "Western democracy" do not involve better intentions or better character on the part of rulers, only differences in bureaucratic and administrative customs and procedures.
I do not mean to minimize the importance of those differences or the differences between individual politicians, even individual autocrats. I just mean that we can observe commonalities despite the differences, and that those are important, too.
One commonality is that these people are willing to kill, lie, cripple, and destroy quite apart from any even moderately defensible notion of justice. They see themselves as *practical* actors, a word we might better read as *ruthless* or *opportunistic.*
Outside of government and its corporate and military doppelgangers, such people get jailed or killed because they are not safe to be around.
We all need these people de-fanged .
There's really no alternative - peace will come someday, and it will come when Israel is dispersed and reparations are paid.
If you're not for the dissolution of Israel and reparations, you're not for peace.