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Can WikiLeaks Help Save Lives?
If independent-minded Web sites, like WikiLeaks or, say, Consortiumnews.com, existed 43 years ago, I might have risen to the occasion and helped save the lives of some 25,000 U.S. soldiers, and a million Vietnamese, by exposing the lies contained in just one SECRET/EYES ONLY cable from Saigon.
I need to speak out now because I have been sickened watching the herculean effort by Official Washington and our Fawning Corporate Media (FCM) to divert attention from the violence and deceit in Afghanistan, reflected in thousands of U.S. Army documents, by shooting the messenger(s) - WikiLeaks and Pvt. Bradley Manning.
After all the indiscriminate death and destruction from nearly nine years of war, the hypocrisy is all too transparent when WikiLeaks and suspected leaker Manning are accused of risking lives by exposing too much truth.
Besides, I still have a guilty conscience for what I chose NOT to do in exposing facts about the Vietnam War that might have saved lives. The sad-but-true story recounted below is offered in the hope that those in similar circumstances today might show more courage than I was able to muster in 1967, and take full advantage of the incredible advancements in technology since then.
Many of my Junior Officer Trainee Program colleagues at CIA came to Washington in the early Sixties inspired by President John Kennedy's Inaugural speech in which he asked us to ask ourselves what we might do for our country. (Sounds corny nowadays, I suppose; I guess I'll just have to ask you to take it on faith. It may not have been Camelot exactly, but the spirit and ambience were fresh - and good.)
Among those who found Kennedy's summons compelling was Sam Adams, a young former naval officer out of Harvard College. After the Navy, Sam tried Harvard Law School, but found it boring. Instead, he decided to go to Washington, join the CIA as an officer trainee, and do something more adventurous. He got more than his share of adventure.
Sam was one of the brightest and most dedicated among us. Quite early in his career, he acquired a very lively and important account - that of assessing Vietnamese Communist strength early in the war. He took to the task with uncommon resourcefulness and quickly proved himself the consummate analyst.
Relying largely on captured documents, buttressed by reporting from all manner of other sources, Adams concluded in 1967 that there were twice as many Communists (about 600,000) under arms in South Vietnam as the U.S. military there would admit.
Dissembling in Saigon
Visiting Saigon during 1967, Adams learned from Army analysts that their commanding general, William Westmoreland, had placed an artificial cap on the official Army count rather than risk questions regarding "progress" in the war (sound familiar?). It was a clash of cultures; with Army intelligence analysts saluting generals following politically dictated orders, and Sam Adams aghast at the dishonesty - consequential dishonesty.
From time to time I would have lunch with Sam and learn of the formidable opposition he encountered in trying to get out the truth.
Commiserating with Sam over lunch one day in late August 1967, I asked what could possibly be Gen. Westmoreland's incentive to make enemy strength appear to be half what it actually was. Sam gave me the answer he had from the horse's mouth in Saigon.
Adams told me that in a cable dated Aug. 20, 1967, Westmoreland's deputy, Gen. Creighton Abrams, set forth the rationale for the deception.
Abrams wrote that the new, higher numbers (reflecting Sam's count, which was supported by all intelligence agencies except Army intelligence, which reflected the "command position") "were in sharp contrast to the current overall strength figure of about 299,000 given to the press."
Abrams emphasized, "We have been projecting an image of success over recent months" and cautioned that if the higher figures became public, "all available caveats and explanations will not prevent the press from drawing an erroneous and gloomy conclusion."
No further proof was needed that the most senior U.S. Army commanders were lying, so that they could continue to feign "progress" in the war. Equally unfortunate, the crassness and callousness of Abrams's cable notwithstanding, it had become increasingly clear that rather than stand up for Sam, his superiors would probably acquiesce in the Army's bogus figures. Sadly, that's what they did.
CIA Director Richard Helms, who saw his primary duty quite narrowly as "protecting" the agency, set the tone. He told subordinates that he could not discharge that duty if he let the agency get involved in a heated argument with the U.S. Army on such a key issue in wartime.
This cut across the grain of what we had been led to believe was the prime duty of CIA analysts - to speak truth to power without fear or favor. And our experience thus far had shown both of us that this ethos amounted to much more than just slogans. We had, so far, been able to "tell it like it is."
After lunch with Sam, for the first time ever I had no appetite for dessert. Sam and I had not come to Washington to "protect the agency." And, having served in Vietnam, Sam knew first hand that thousands upon thousands were being killed in a feckless war.
What to Do?
I have an all-too-distinct memory of a long silence over coffee, as each of us ruminated on what might be done. I recall thinking to myself; someone should take the Abrams cable down to the New York Times (at the time an independent-minded newspaper).
Clearly, the only reason for the cable's SECRET/EYES ONLY classification was to hide deliberate deception by our most senior generals regarding "progress" in the war and deprive the American people of the chance to know the truth.
Going to the press was, of course, antithetical to the culture of secrecy in which we had been trained. Besides, you would likely be caught at your next polygraph examination. Better not to stick your neck out.
I pondered all this in the days after that lunch with Adams. And I succeeded in coming up with a slew of reasons why I ought to keep silent: a mortgage; a plum overseas assignment for which I was in the final stages of language training; and, not least, the analytic work - important, exciting work on which Sam and I thrived.
Better to keep quiet for now, grow in gravitas, and live on to slay other dragons. Right?
One can, I suppose, always find excuses for not sticking one's neck out. The neck, after all, is a convenient connection between head and torso, albeit the "neck" that was the focus of my concern was a figurative one, suggesting possible loss of career, money and status - not the literal "necks" of both Americans and Vietnamese that were on the line daily in the war.
But if there is nothing for which you would risk your career "neck" - like, say, saving the lives of soldiers and civilians in a war zone - your "neck" has become your idol, and your career is not worthy of that. I now regret giving such worship to my own neck.
Not only did I fail the neck test. I had not thought things through very rigorously from a moral point of view.
Promises to Keep?
As a condition of employment, I had signed a promise not to divulge classified information so as not to endanger sources, methods or national security. Promises are important, and one should not lightly violate them. Plus, there are legitimate reasons for protecting some secrets. But were any of those legitimate concerns the real reasons why Abrams's cable was stamped SECRET/EYES ONLY? I think not.
It is not good to operate in a moral vacuum, oblivious to the reality that there exists a hierarchy of values and that circumstances often determine the morality of a course of action.
How does a written promise to keep secret everything with a classified stamp on it square with one's moral responsibility to stop a war based on lies? Does stopping a misbegotten war not supersede a secrecy promise? Ethicists use the words "supervening value" for this; the concept makes sense to me.
And is there yet another value? As an Army officer, I had taken a solemn oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies, foreign and domestic. It was also drummed into us that officers do not lie. (Pardon, if that has come to seem quaint or obsolete.)
How did the lying by the Army command in Saigon square with all that? Were/are generals exempt? Should we not call them out when we learn of deliberate deception that subverts the democratic process? Can the American people make good, informed decisions if they are lied to?
Would I have helped stop unnecessary killing by giving the New York Times the not-really-secret, SECRET/EYES ONLY cable from Gen. Abrams? We'll never know, will we? And I live with that.
I could not take the easy way out, saying Let Sam Do It. Because I knew he wouldn't. Sam chose to go through the established grievance channels and got the royal run-around, even after the Communist countrywide offensive at Tet in January-February 1968 proved beyond any doubt that his count of Communist forces was correct.
When the Tet offensive began, as a way of keeping his sanity, Adams drafted a caustic cable to Saigon saying, "It is something of an anomaly to be taking so much punishment from Communist soldiers whose existence is not officially acknowledged." But he did not think the situation at all funny.
Dan Ellsberg Steps In
Sam kept playing by the rules, but it happened that - unbeknown to Sam - Dan Ellsberg gave Sam's figures on enemy strength to the New York Times, which published them on March 19, 1968. Dan had learned that President Lyndon Johnson was about to bow to Pentagon pressure to widen the war into Cambodia, Laos and up to the Chinese border - perhaps even beyond.
Later, it became clear that his timely leak - together with another unauthorized disclosure to the Times that the Pentagon had requested 206,000 more troops - prevented a wider war. On March 25, Johnson complained to a small gathering, "The leaks to the New York Times hurt us. ... We have no support for the war. ... I would have given Westy the 206,000 men."
Ellsberg later copied the Pentagon Papers - the 7,000-page top-secret history of U.S. decision-making on Vietnam from 1945 to 1967 - and, in 1971, he gave copies to the New York Times, Washington Post and other news organizations. In the years since, Ellsberg has had difficulty shaking off the thought that, had he released the Pentagon Papers sooner, the war might have ended years earlier with untold lives saved. Ellsberg has put it this way:
"Like so many others, I put personal loyalty to the president above all else - above loyalty to the Constitution and above obligation to the law, to truth, to Americans, and to humankind. I was wrong."
And so was I wrong in not asking Sam for a copy of that cable from Gen. Abrams. Sam, too, eventually had strong too-late regrets. He doggedly pursued the matter, but within CIA, until he learned that Dan Ellsberg was on trial in 1973 for releasing the Pentagon Papers and was being accused of endangering national security by revealing figures on enemy strength.
Which figures? The same old faked numbers from 1967! "Imagine," said Adams, "hanging a man for leaking faked numbers," as he hustled off to testify on Dan's behalf. (The case against Ellsberg was ultimately thrown out of court because of abuses by the Nixon administration.)
After the war drew down, Adams was tormented by the thought that, had he not let himself be diddled by the system, the entire left half of the Vietnam Memorial wall would not be there. There would have been no new names to chisel into such a wall.
Sam Adams died prematurely at age 55 with nagging remorse that he had not done enough.
In a letter appearing in the (then independent-minded) New York Times on Oct. 18, 1975, John T. Moore, a CIA analyst who worked in Saigon and the Pentagon from 1965 to 1970, confirmed Adams's story after Sam told it in detail in the May 1975 issue of Harper's magazine. Moore wrote:
"My only regret is that I did not have Sam's courage. ... The record is clear. It speaks of misfeasance, nonfeasance and malfeasance, of outright dishonesty and professional cowardice.
"It reflects an intelligence community captured by an aging bureaucracy, which too often placed institutional self-interest or personal advancement before the national interest. It is a page of shame in the history of American intelligence."
Tanks But No Thanks, Abrams
What about Gen. Creighton Abrams? Not every general gets the Army's main battle tank named after him. The honor, though, came not from his service in Vietnam, but rather from his courage in the early days of his military career, leading his tanks through German lines to relieve Bastogne during World War II's Battle of the Bulge. Gen. George Patton praised Abrams as the only tank commander he considered his equal.
Sadly, as things turned out, 23 years later Abrams became a poster child for old soldiers who, as Gen. Douglas McArthur suggested, should "just fade away," rather than hang on too long after their genuinely distinguished accomplishments. In May 1967, Abrams was picked to be Westmoreland's deputy in Vietnam and succeeded him a year later. But Abrams could not succeed in the war, no matter how effective "an image of success" his subordinates projected for the media.
The "erroneous and gloomy conclusions of the press" that Abrams had tried so hard to head off proved all too accurate.
Ironically, when reality hit home, it fell to Abrams to cut back U.S. forces in Vietnam from a peak of 543,000 in early 1969 to 49,000 in June 1972 - almost five years after Abrams's progress-defending cable from Saigon. By 1972, some 58,000 U.S. troops, not to mention two to three million Vietnamese, had been killed.
Both Westmoreland and Abrams had reasonably good reputations when they started out-but, when they finished, not so much.
And Petraeus?
Comparisons can be invidious, but Gen. David Petraeus is another Army commander who has wowed Congress with his ribbons, medals and merit badges. A pity he was not born early enough to have served in Vietnam where he might have learned some real-life hard lessons about the limitations of counterinsurgency theories.
Moreover, it appears that no one took the trouble to tell him that in the early Sixties we young infantry officers already had plenty of counterinsurgency manuals to study at Fort Bragg and Fort Benning. There are many things one cannot learn from reading or writing manuals - as many of my Army colleagues learned too late in the jungles and mountains of South Vietnam.
Unless one is to believe, contrary to all indications, that Petraeus is not all that bright, one has to assume he knows that the Afghanistan expedition is a folly beyond repair. Thus, it is not encouraging that he regaled a Washington Post reporter yesterday (Sunday) in Kabul with stories about "incipient signs of [you guessed it!] progress in parts of the volatile south" and "nascent steps" to reintegrate low-level insurgents.
According to the Post, Petraeus has been "burrowing into operations here [Afghanistan] and traveling to the far reaches of this country," and "has concluded that the U.S. strategy to win the nearly nine-year-old war is ‘fundamentally sound.'" Does this not sound very much like the approach taken by Gen. Abrams in his August 1967 cable from Saigon?
It is rubbish, and it is hard to believe Petraeus does not recognize it as such. Moreover, it is virtually impossible to believe that Ambassador Karl Eikenberry (see below) shares that rosy view. This, of course, is precisely why the ground-truth of the documents released by WikiLeaks is so important. We need, among other things, to hear more from Eikenberry, and we will not get anything useful from some public speech.
Whistleblowers Galore
And it's not just the WikiLeaks documents that have caused consternation inside the U.S. government. Investigators reportedly are rigorously searching for the source that provided the New York Times with the texts of two cables (of 6 and 9 November 2009) from Ambassador Eikenberry in Kabul. [See Consortiumnews.com's "Obama Ignores Key Afghan Warning."]
To its credit, even today's far-less independent New York Times published a major story based on the information in those cables, while President Barack Obama was still trying to figure out what to do about Afghanistan. Later the Times posted the entire texts of the cables, which were classified TOP SECRET and NODIS (meaning "no dissemination" to anyone but the most senior officials to whom the documents were addressed).
The cables conveyed Eikenberry's experienced, cogent views on the foolishness of the policy in place and, implicitly, of any eventual decision to double down on the Afghan War. (That, of course, is pretty much what the President ended up doing.) Eikenberry provided chapter and verse to explain why, as he put it, "I cannot support [the Defense Department's] recommendation for an immediate Presidential decision to deploy another 40,000 here."
Such frank disclosures are anathema to self-serving bureaucrats and ideologues who would much prefer depriving the American people of information that might lead them to question the government's benighted policy-in this case toward Afghanistan.
As the New York Times/Eikenberry cables show, even today's FCM may sometimes display the old spunk of American journalism and refuse to hide or fudge the truth, even if the facts might cause the people to draw "an erroneous and gloomy conclusion," to borrow Gen. Abrams's words of 43 years ago.
Polished Pentagon Spokesman
Remember "Baghdad Bob," the irrepressible and unreliable Iraqi Information Minister at the time of the U.S.-led invasion? He came to mind as I watched Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell's chaotic, quixotic press briefing on Aug. 5 regarding the WikiLeaks exposures.
The briefing was revealing in several respects. Clear from his prepared statement was what is bothering the Pentagon the most. Here's Morrell:
"WikiLeaks's webpage constitutes a brazen solicitation to U.S. government officials, including our military, to break the law. WikiLeaks's public assertion that submitting confidential material to WikiLeaks is safe, easy and protected by law is materially false and misleading. The Department of Defense therefore also demands that WikiLeaks discontinue any solicitation of this type."
Rest assured that the Defense Department will do all it can to make it "unsafe" for any government official or contractor to provide WikiLeaks with sensitive material. But it is contending with a clever group of hi-tech experts who have built in precautions to allow information to be submitted anonymously.
That the Pentagon will prevail anytime soon is far from certain.
Also, in a ludicrous attempt to close the barn door after tens of thousands of classified documents had already escaped, Morrell insisted that WikiLeaks give back all the documents and electronic media in its possession. Even the normally docile Pentagon press corps could not suppress a collective laugh, irritating the Pentagon spokesman no end. The impression gained was one of a Pentagon Gulliver tied down by terabytes of Lilliputians.
Morrell's self-righteous appeal to the leaders of WikiLeaks to "do the right thing" was accompanied by an explicit threat that, otherwise, "We shall have to compel them to do the right thing." His attempt to assert Pentagon power in this regard fell flat, given the realities.
Morrell also chose the occasion to remind the Pentagon press corps to behave themselves or face rejection when applying to be embedded in units of U.S. armed forces. The correspondents were shown nodding docilely as Morrell reminded them that permission for embedding "is by no means a right. It is a privilege." The generals giveth and the generals taketh away.
It was a moment of arrogance - and press subservience - that would have sickened Thomas Jefferson or James Madison, not to mention the courageous war correspondents who did their duty in Vietnam.
Morrell and the generals can control the "embeds"; they cannot control the ether. Not yet, anyway.
And that was all too apparent beneath the strutting, preening, and finger waving by the Pentagon's fancy silk necktie to the world. Actually, the opportunities afforded by WikiLeaks and other Internet Web sites can serve to diminish what few advantages there are to being in bed with the Army.
What Would I Have Done
Would I have had the courage to whisk Gen. Abrams's cable into the ether in 1967, if WikiLeaks or other Web sites had been available to provide a viable opportunity to expose the deceit of the top Army command in Saigon? I cannot speak with certainty about "then." What I can say is I am confident I would be able to summon that courage today, having made a serious effort to think through not only the technology aspects but-more important-issues regarding how one properly goes about prioritizing competing values.
The Pentagon can argue that using the Internet this way is not "safe, easy, and protected by law." We shall have to watch how that argument fares in court. Meanwhile, this way of exposing information needed by people in a democracy will continue to be attractive - and, while perhaps not entirely "safe," surely a lot easier than running the risk of being seen with someone from the New York Times.
From what I have learned over these past 43 years, supervening moral values can, and should, trump lesser promises. Today, I am confident I would "do the right thing," were I to have access to an Abrams-like cable from Petraeus in Kabul.
And I believe that Sam Adams, if he were alive today, would enthusiastically agree that this would be not only the morally correct decision, but also the only one with half a chance of exposing the lies.
Footnote: In the Tradition of Sam Adams
Sam Adams Associates for Integrity in Intelligence (SAAII) is a group of former CIA colleagues and other associates of former intelligence analyst Sam Adams, who hold up his example as a model for those in intelligence who would aspire to the courage to speak truth to power.
Sam did precisely that, and in honoring his memory, SAAII confers an award each year to a lamp lighter exemplifying Sam Adam's courage, persistence, and devotion to truth - no matter the consequences. The Washington, DC, presentations are held in the fall, usually before a large university audience; Dan Ellsberg, a charter member, is usually with us.
Sam Adams Annual Award recipients:
-Coleen Rowley of the FBI, in Washington, DC
-Katharine Gun of British Intelligence; in Copenhagen, Denmark
-Sibel Edmonds of the FBI; in Washington, DC
-Craig Murray, former UK ambassador to Uzbekistan; in NY City
-Sam Provance, former Sgt, US Army, truth teller about Abu Ghraib; in Washington, DC
-Frank Grevil, Maj., Danish Army Intelligence, imprisoned for giving the Danish press documents showing that Denmark's Prime Minister disregarded warnings that there was no authentic evidence of WMD in Iraq; in Copenhagen, Denmark
-Larry Wilkerson, Col., US Army (ret.), former chief of staff to Secretary Colin Powell at the State Department, who has exposed what he called the "Cheney-Rumsfeld cabal;" in Washington, DC
In April, the SAAII nominating committee decided unanimously to give this year's award to Julian Assange of WikiLeaks. Stay tuned for information on time and place for the presentation. Or check with Geoff Morrell, who is likely to know as soon as we decide.
An earlier version of this article appeared on Consortiumnews.com.
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38 Comments so far
Show AllI initially received McGovern's confession with sympathy but as I read on, that turned to rage. He briefly gives us weak reasons why he did not do anything about the information that could have possibly saved thousands of US lives and a million Vietnamese lives and then goes on to tell us of Sam Adams. Some of us refused and opposed the US War effort in Vietnam and we did not even weigh the costs and benefits. I personally was indicted by the Justice Dept. for Failure to Comply with the Selective Service Act and had some meetings with the FBI. It is not even cowardice that would explain McGovern's actions. He should remove himself from public life - - he has nothing to offer but self justification or worse.
I had the displeasure a few months ago to meet many times with Stuart on China Beach, outside DaNang, Vietnam but at least he had the dignity to continue drinking himself to death for all that he had done during the war. I asked him if his drinking came from his many years experience during the American War in Vietnam and he replied in a soft voice with his head down: "I think so." Stuart "Loved Obama" which he proclaimed many times with great feeling and this is what we have with McGovern. I have followed the writings of McGovern quite closely and wrote to him a few times before he removed his email address from his writings and I found he is an abject apologist for the murderous war effort of Obama - - he blames bad advisors, he blames Bush/Cheney, he blames politics, he blames
Conservatives and Republicans and he omits to call Obama a mass murderer. If you think Obama is doing his best with the bad hand dealt to him by Bush or that Obama is the lesser of many evils or that you should "hold his feet to the fire" then you should continue with
McGovern. I am sure we will see McGovern's guilt splashed all over the Liberal/Progressive Media from CommonDreams.org to CounterPunch.org to Antiwar.com and probably many more and we will see comments of sympathy, concern and approval for what he has written but I am not favorably impressed but rather disgusted. This is typical McGovern style of fakery, misdirection, insincerity, self promotion and lack of moral responsibility. He now goes on not only to receive awards but he gives awards - - what can I say. And then after we read of the despicable career of this Sam Adams we are treated with the note that an award is given in his name for those who "aspire to the courage to speak truth to power". What an inelegant hackneyed phrase so over used and so trite: "speak truth to power". And you print this guy. Shame has no meaning. Guilt has no meaning. Contrition has no meaning. Only arrogance and pride remain. I suppose this is what is called audacity. What's the use - - McGovern goes on and prospers and Consortium is considered a brave and worthwhile institution. This is our world.
Thanks for the above remarks. Much truer than the article itself.
McGovern is a master at shifting and dodging blame for his total lack of courage and any moral fiber.
But hey what do you expect from army and CIA flacks. Plunder, murder and rape and that is just lunch for these people. Ability to lie is standard military stuff backed by patriotism and propaganda that cover the guilt and shame of their inhuman acts of violence.
I, too, tired of McGovern long ago and blasted him for trying to atone for his very costly sins and devotion to the US Empire. He was so stupid he couldn't see that JFK was calling people to serve the state just like the Soviets and Chinese, not to serve each other instead.
"I personally was indicted by the Justice Dept. for Failure to Comply with the Selective Service Act and had some meetings with the FBI."
Cool. Did they attend your father's funeral and burial, photographing your grieving family and taking down license plate numbers from the cortege - as if your father were a mafia Don?
No. My father died in 1991. I was never convicted, never tried, never left the country to seek asylum. I eventually received a classification of 1Y. Would you like to hear more of my story? Perhaps you would like to discuss the career of Ray McGovern.
You've explained it. It has something to do with vodka. Thanks.
I'm glad you want to keep this discussion going and perhaps you can help with the discussion of the career of Ray McGovern as I am having difficulty finding much about his career especially during the period of the 1960's. We know that McGovern was an Intelligence Briefer for Ronald Reagan which included GHW Bush, National Security Advisor, Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Cabinet as well as giving direct advice to Henry Kissinger. We don't know what McGovern advised during this time but perhaps you can help us in this matter. We know that McGovern received the Intelligence Commendation Medal. We also know that he is a very religious person and belongs to The Church of the Savior. What I am most interested in is his time during the American War in Vietnam. Where was he during this time? Was he in Vietnam? Did he see any action? Did he personally kill anybody or did he just give advice concerning killing people? Was he in Saigon during the Tet Offensive of Jan/Feb 1968 as I learned that there was a lot of bloody street fighting during that period involving all US personnel and would like to know if McGovern participated. If you have any information concerning this matter I and many readers of CommonDreams.org would appreciate your contribution.
ekzile,
I read your post with great care.
Two-three years ago,I was present at a November NJ Peace Action Luncheon at which Ray McGovern was the featured speaker.He gave an impassioned and moving speech.
I have never served in the Military, tho 1-A originally at the start of the Korean War.
Now senior citizenship makes me wary about any instant judgements.
May I be bold enough to ask why and how you "had the displeasure" to talk to "Stuart" on a beach outside DaNang? Was this encounter part of a reunion of American veterans of the Vietnam War? Are you A VET....who, even today, is in great anguish? Did McGovern's admitted moral hesitancy during his military service in Vietnam trigger old war memories?
What I am certain of is that no human being is flawless,that Johan Gultung is perhaps too optimistic about the future of the U.S. Republic "after the Empire collapses,by 2020, he opines", and that I'm going to ask my library to get Andrew Bachevich's new book,"Washington Rules: America's Path to Permanent War, so I can read it. Your post reflected great frustration and self-righteous passion.
I welcome your questions because they seem to be sincere and lack sarcasm. My wife and I were staying at Hoa's place on the part of China Beach called Non Nouc which is accross from Marble Mountain about half-way between DaNang and Hoi An. Stuart had his table at one of the beachfront restaurants and one day he waved me over and we had many conversations over a period of about 10 days this March. Our conversations were quite argumentative but I found him interesting. He drank vodka continuously and it was quite amazing to me that he could talk at all. There were times when he would pause in midsentence for ten seconds or more before he could continue but he was more or less coherent. He couldn't walk much and drove his motorbike up to the restaurant and wouldn't move for the rest of the day. Perhaps too much detail here but I thought he was a good source of information and I believed what he said. He had been studying Vietnamese for many years and said he would only talk to the Vietnamese in their own language; however, the Vietnamese could not understand him very well. Anyway, he was interesting and did give some information and insight of the war which I am interested in. But getting back to your question, I am not a Veteran . . . wait a minute, you said that you had read my post with great care but you failed to note what I said about my service . . . well, no matter. I am not ashamed or fearful or anguished when we visit Vietnam . . . I opposed that war, never served and remain fervently antiwar to this day - - my older brother says I should get over it. Great frustration, indeed - - self-righteous passion, maybe, I'm not sure what that means. We were just passing through Vietnam as tourists (travellers) and had been thoughout the country many times. I am quite sure we will be there in a few more months. One would suspect that McGovern is a very good speaker.
Ray McGovern likes Obama?
Yikes--that's certainly a turn off!
I just read all you said about McGovern; I had not done so when I made my post yesterday. I think it is interesting that McGovern is putting up a front of sympathy, compassion, guilty conscience, regrets and so on to place a protective shield over the CIA.
The CIA worked some dastardly deeds in Vietnam; millions of people's lives ended in a terrible war, and millions of people are or were addicted to heroin because of the drug trafficking fostered by the CIA. Also, because the CIA kicked of the war efforts, subversively, in 1955, the millions of injured, the changes in US foreign policy that made this a worse world to live in; all of this can be in great part chalked up to an 'Intelligence' Agency hellbent on subverting good to work evil.
McGovern never mentions any of this in his writings and then joins the Ecumenical Church of the SAVIOR !
Yikes!
Someone is really laying it on thick with the soul baring, honest, church going, oh so pitifully sorry, my bad conscience, look at that Big Bad Army, I'm feeling really sorry for the folks that got hurt, I'm carrying on and on about all of this to create a pretty picture of a concerned, caring person who is baring his soul.
Fake, Phony, Saccharine soaked baloney.
I am now concentrating on what McGovern did for the CIA in the decade of 1960's. His biography and Wikipedia give no details at all. We have some idea what was going on during this time such as bombing of Laos and Cambodia, assination programs (Phoenix), spread of agent orange, various massacres and atrocities, etc. As an admitted CIA operative during this time one wonders what was McGovern's involvement during this period. My friend Stuart informed me that during the Tet offensive of Jan/Feb 1968 there was a lot of street fighting in Saigon involving all American personnel in the area so I wonder if McGovern saw any personal action during that period or any time that would involve him killing people or advising in the killing of people. Furthermore, it is my impression that one does not rise in the ranks of the CIA by going against the grain or opposing policy so it is hard to imagine that McGovern rose to the level of advising Presidents, Joint Chiefs of Staff, National Security Advisors by being a "Maverick" but I suppose that is what McGovern is proposing in that he was only involved in pure intelligence gathering and information and not involved in promoting any of the sinister activities of the CIA - - is it possible? What is particularly upsetting to me is that McGovern has successfully positioned himself as a "good guy", a peace loving, caring individual after doing, abetting, promoting terrible, cruel, monstrous things. He is obviously a master of "Information." Or is his change related to his religious conversion in the Church of the Savior that you alluded to.
A fascinating account of government duplicity and private agony. Those that are in the know pay a price either way. They are persecuted and prosecuted if they stand up and are riddled with guilt over the lives they should have saved if they don't.
Too bad those that call themselves our leaders don't experience the same agony. There seems to a complete absence of any moral structure among decision makers.
It's not that the press are "fawning", they are an organ of the state. Their job is to promote whatever military action a handful of people decide upon.
Ray, what you failed to disclose might have gotten you killed by the black ops boys, Bush's buddies in the Phonex Program and the cocaine for the contra guns supply boys.
Obama was a kid when this stuff was hatching so what would he know, or even do about it .... they'll just tell him somethin about JFK and he will shut up.
And we were reading in the free press and underground about the phony numbers anyway...
and the government plan to eliminate the antiwar communist threat to national security.... now who could that be???
Can wikileaks help save lives? Perhaps, that remains to be seen. Will they ever release the key to the "insurance" file? Or will that information never be revealed (presumably to protect their necks!) Of course we don't know the contents of the "insurance" file, so we have no idea whether their protecting their necks in this way will result in loss of lives. Maybe it's just embarassing stuff to people in power, and wouldn't save any lives if released.
"All war is based on deception"-Sun Tzu, and everyone intimately involved in the Vietnam war knew that. They also knew that "progress" was a bunch of lies. Anyone who works for the U.S. perpetual war leviathan should know what they are getting into and what they would be asked to do. It's not as if he was drafted against his will. I guess McGovern and his friend were too young at the time.
Deception applies not only to the enemy, but also to the public, and the soldiers in the field. It's almost inconceivable that wikileaks won't be used by military intelligence to deceive, by leaking fabricated documents (e.g. saying that Bin Laden is alive and plotting things from Pakistan). Is anyone on this site ready to call them (the leakers) on it?
Whatever you say oh mole hunter.
You're getting better at marginalizing people Jim; you didn't even have to use "911" this time.
I guess I look for moles too.
Now that you mention it,
Do you think wikileaks could be a psy ops distraction from 9/11?
You've outdone yourself.
And you are getting nicer too.
Thank you, Ray McGovern, for this thoughtful piece of personal reflection, and important addition to American history. It needs more than instant consideration upon blogs.
Because one of my historical research topics was Thomas A. Dooley, M.D. I got to know, via email, Ralph McGehee, a 25-year CIA agent who served in Vietnam. Here is a remarkable quote by him, found on Wikipedia:
===The CIA is not now nor has it ever been a central intelligence agency. It is the covert action arm of the President's foreign policy advisers. In that capacity it overthrows or supports foreign governments while reporting "intelligence" justifying those activities. It shapes its intelligence, even in such critical areas as Soviet nuclear weapon capability, to support presidential policy. Disinformation is a large part of its covert action responsibility, and the American people are the primary target audience of its lies.===
IMO America has yet to give Ralph McGehee "his propers". He has suffered a lot of harassment.
I think two things are worth comparing: 1) the release of the Ellsberg Papers to the public, and 2) the sad faced Walter Cronkite telling the American public he had lost faith in the belief that we could win a land war in Vietnam. In 1965 he had hosted a 3-night, live CBS Special on the conflict in Vietnam. I can recall watching it, but thinking it was spin, compared to the articles appearing in Ramparts magazine - which history has proven to be deadly accurate. They covered the CIA shill group, organized by Cardinal Spellman, called The American Friends of Vietnam.
My preferred beginning place with Vietnam history is always the marvelous book "One World" - written by Wendell Willkie between November 1942 and February 1943, published in many languages, including Chinese, in April 1943. If you have not read it, please do so asap because two moments critical for understanding history occur in that book. Thanks again.
Trylon
Only if the US public pays attention to the news and learns to separate the factual data in spite of the media's attempt to rearrange the facts to suit its propagandistic aims.
Does anyone know how much they pay these guys in the CIA to be good soldiers? Just curious....
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding.” –Upton Sinclair
It should be much easier today to err on the side of truth because the only thing that GW Bush did of value was show the utter contempt the governing elites have for the governed. If Bush had been even slightly less incompetent, immoral, unethical and conscienceless, we might find it more difficult to do the right thing, but after living through the lying, the torture, the incredible lack of humanitarianism and the outrageous deficiency in basic human decency that Bush represented it is virtually a given that people have new thoughts on what is and what is not truly important.
I admit to liking the things Ray McGovern has to say but I am not sure I really trust him as he was formerly with the CIA.
I firmly believe the phrase, "once a CIA agent, always a CIA agent." I would just caution anyone reading this to really think long and hard about this. Also, read, then read again what is said in Mr. McGovern's writings and ask yourself, "How might this still be the work of a professional CIA agent even though it is presented as a revelation, even though it is given out as a confession, even though it seems to aimed at uncovering false and revealing the truth? How would this make the CIA -look good-?"
Mr. McGovern seems to be addressing an audience that might otherwise he hostile to the CIA as he says
"I need to speak out now because I have been sickened watching the herculean effort by Official Washington and our Fawning Corporate Media (FCM) to divert attention from the violence and deceit in Afghanistan, reflected in thousands of U.S. Army documents, by shooting the messenger(s) - WikiLeaks and Pvt. Bradley Manning." Good tactic to point the finger at the Army's ineptitude-and they have been fairly clumsy in too many situations but your know what?, the CIA did some pretty damnable things too and still does some hellish things today. Read "The Politics of Heroin: CIA Complicity in the Global Drug Trade" by Alfred W. McCoy to discover how the CIA has kept the global drug trafficking networks alive by first keeping up the conflict in Vietnam, and then when that was turned into a lost cause, in great part BECAUSE of the CIA's ineptitude, they moved on to Afghanistan to keep the flow of morphine products into the streets of LA,Cleveland, Philadelphia, Detroit and many other large urban centers in the US.
In the article above, if it seems like not much is said about the CIA operations ongoing today one thing is obvious,
1. Oh, look, a CIA agent made it back into the light from the dark side. Well, they can't be that bad, can they?
2. Gee if Mr. McGovern made it back from the other side, maybe others will and maybe there's hope still. Maybe the CIA effectiveness will be lessened and that's a good thing.
My thought or hypothesis is maybe we should know the CIA's real message is "Give up all hope all ye who abide here still."
This is my theory: McGovern is still heavily involved with the CIA or other similar organization or group. He did not approve of the Bush era because of their lack of subtlety and by-passing of the CIA by Cheney's own group. He is more closely aligned with the Panetta cartel with their more sophisticated approach to "security". McGovern as many like him opposed Bush/Cheney approach to war but when smooth talking Democrat Obama came on the scene, McGovern became more tolerant, indeed supportive of Obama's approach to war. I did an informal study of this by finding McGovern's web pieces and searching for the word Obama in them. What I found is that mostly the word Obama does not appear and when it appears it is irrelevant or it is supportive of Obama in terms of blaming the situation on bad advisers, politics, Bush/Cheney, Republicans or some reason not to blame Obama for any war disasters, atrocities, massacres or the like. He dismisses any culpability for Obama or responsibility - - it's always someone else's fault. McGovern answered one of my emails to him and responded by saying: read the article again. I did this and found that McGovern exonerates Obama at every turn, makes excuses for him. I replied to McGovern by saying that he should state unequivically that Obama is a war criminal and a murderer but he did not reply. If anyone can refute these allegations of mine, I welcome their submissions right here. McGovern may be old but he is still tricky and dangerous.
McGovern exonerates Obama at every turn, makes excuses for him. I replied to McGovern by saying that he should state unequivically that Obama is a war criminal and a murderer but he did not reply.
I concur in all that you say, and would add that McGovern operates as a smoke screen generator=point the finger in the other direction so no one will blame the real trouble makers for the war in Afghanistan being such a huge disaster: the current occupant of the Oval Office and the CIA.
There is as much honesty in Washington as there are cointel pro gang stalking torture freaks.
The FBI support this horrifying activity nationwide and the DOJ condone the activity of the FBI.
Maybe the CIA dont like the competition of a nation wide spy torture network they dont control, you know , everyone wants Patriot Act job security.
So whats a handful of lies, a few Americans lives destroyed by warrant less surveillance cointel pro, we are building a nation wide stazi to support our conquering Empire of super rich chicken hawks.
So whats a couple of buildings downtown Manhattan worth, 3000 New Yorkers lives, 400 first responders, the 800 sick responders denied medical attention , 5000 plus dead American soldiers, 100000 injured American Soldiers, 600000 dead Iraq men women and children, 2.8 million displaced Iraqis, two middle eastern country's infrastructure destroyed because of rich elite chicken hawks playing God and wanting oil control.
The truth, we cant handle the truth, because we wont admit , we are the evil empire whose leaders are twisted greedy war mongering murdering scumbags spreading democracy using the biggest bombs and Jesus as a human shield.
Shame on them.
Mr, Mcgovern, I'll tell what a man told me when I asked if he worked for the CIA,
He said, " Son , ain't no one ever worked for the CIA"
Put on his Ray bans , And he walked away, Clint Eastwood style.
Yes, I believe that wikileaks can save lives, because I don't believe that the military can or will. I believe it can save lives because I saw those people murdered by those crazy, laughing soldiers. That was my realization of what we do!
Not enough people saw it though. The military is a hierarchy and that is the problem. if they even read their own country's history they would figure out that when people are invaded, they have a reason to fight, while the paid and overly paid fighters are just there for a job, or the money.
Maybe I am being overly influenced by the TIPPING POINT, which I just read. I know it's an old book, from 2000, but it does discuss what motivates and captures society to act, or do or to buy. Yes, it did talk about consumer trends and what kinds of people start them. Since our military is in the PR plus killing people business, why would I believe anything they said?
I kind of liked the rule of 150, and it does seem true that anything over this size in any group becomes unmanagable. Because wikileaks doesn't seem to have a hierarchy, and contributers are anonymous, then I give a higher trust value to that.
I like to think of myself as a pacifist, but once 2 men tried to steal a truck, where I was the passenger.When that happened, they were dragging me by the leg and trying to pull me out to steal the truck ! I was so angry that I was able to kick that first man in the throat and both men fell over and we got away. I was really surprised at how fast that I had the feeling that I wanted to kill somebody. If anyone would ask me if I would or could kill someone, then I would have to say YES! It's still kind of creepy to know that about myself.
Because of that experience, I can make an analogy among all the people of Vietnam and Afghanistan, and Iraq, and every where else we kill people, and see why, if they are attacked, then of course they will fight back.
War is just people trying not to be killed by complete stranger people who are trying to kill them for any reason or no reason. Why are we all over the world killing people, and killing ourselves at the same time?
I don't know for sure that wikileaks will save us, because there are too many "us and them" groups in this whole country. I do believe in wikileaks, because really, that's all I have left to believe in.
Stardust,
Good post.
Chelsea
The seeds are are planting around the world will grow into a lethal crop that will destroy the sower. This nation could have stayed great, but greed and hubris will always, always be the undoing of the mighty. The USA is no exception. No matter who believes a lie, no matter how many people believe a lie, the truth remains the truth. Here's a truth most Americnas don't want to believe--America is the Evil Empire, and freedom lovers all over the world are conspiring to bring us down, not because they hate our freedom (Hell, I wish we had our freedom back) but because WE ARE EVIL!!! All of us! Even if you protested the war, you are evil because you have not stopped this madness being done with our money and with the approval of our elected representatives. I am evil because I sit in my living room and read about our atrocities instead of going out and digging up my own wikileaks. None of us are doing enough.
All of us share in the guilt of this country's vile acts.
Thanks for the history, Ray. It's good to see a little of how your mind works.
Let's play Espionage Thriller. Better yet let's make this a collaborative endeavor. I'll kick it off. You're Julian Assange in a secret bunker in Malmo doing your work to save the world. Enter one of your "volunteers" who informs you that he/she just received what appears to be a highly valuable encrypted message. After decryption and evaluation it appears that there is some "high value" information involved. The sender fears for his safety and the integrity of your system to safeguard anonymity and requests to meet you in person. This person was previously a member of several "security" organization with close links to previous US Presidents and the CIA so he may have some valuable information to divulge. He gives his name as Ray McGovern and explains that "it would be worth your while" to get ahold of the secret information that he has. He further states that he is on your side and would like to help and is appalled by the current war situations having had some terrible experiences during the time of the American War in Vietnam. He gives you (via secure internet transfer) some very tantalizing info. that could make a real difference. He explains that he is a respected member of a professional organization that is in favor of Peace. He further states that he has great respect for you and even wants to give you an award for "speaking Truth to Power." However he says he must meet you in person to give you the information and proposes a meeting at a secret location in UK. What do you do? What is the next chapter in this story?
Does Mr. McGovern ever let on to the real reasons for our wars i.e. the wealth accumulated by those in decision making capacities?
Abolishing the CIA, not Wikileaks, will save lives !
The US military, and all militaries, are chartered to compete against each other to preserve the power of competing elites to prevail over people and natural resources.
Joining the military amounts to a special submission of one's free will to elites under an illusion that the organization is "something greater". But no man-made organization can be greater than earth's bio-community.
Elites are highly motivated to perpetuate the militarist delusions in order to enslave the people.
The people don't need the military. People don't need competition. The people simply want to thrive in a peaceful world. So the military is not only unnecessary, but is absolutely unnecessary.
There's a long list of wars based on lies for profit/power.
Could it be that ALL wars are wrong?
Could it be that war is simply the preferred way for elites to maintain wealth and power?
Problems can be solved if, from the beginning, when they are small, their solution aims at human progress rather than increasing wealth/power.
Cheers.
Neckless Vet
Perhaps yes, perhaps no. But it certainly is informing the entire world of the American lying that is so annoying to the US.