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Venezuela is Not Greece
Given the Venezuelan government's low public and foreign debt, the idea the country is facing an 'economic crisis' is plain wrong
With Venezuela's economy having contracted last year (as did the vast majority of economies in the Western Hemisphere), the economy suffering from electricity shortages, and the value of domestic currency having recently fallen sharply in the parallel market, stories of Venezuela's economic ruin are again making headlines.
The Washington Post, in a news article that reads more like an editorial, reports that Venezuela is "gripped by an economic crisis," and that "years of state interventions in the economy are taking a brutal toll on private business."
There is one important fact that is almost never mentioned in news articles about Venezuela, because it does not fit in with the narrative of a country that has spent wildly throughout the boom years, and will soon, like Greece, face its day of reckoning. That is the government's debt level: currently about 20% of GDP. In other words, even as it was tripling real social spending per person, increasing access to healthcare and education, and loaning or giving billions of dollars to other Latin American countries, Venezuela was reducing its debt burden during the oil price run-up. Venezuela's public debt fell from 47.5% of GDP in 2003 to 13.8% in 2008. In 2009, as the economy shrank, public debt picked up to 19.9% of GDP. Even if we include the debt of the state oil company, PDVSA, Venezuela's public debt is 26% of GDP. The foreign part of this debt is less than half of the total.
Compare this to Greece, where public debt is 115% of GDP and currently projected to rise to 149% in 2013. (The European Union average is about 79%.)
Given the Venezuelan government's very low public and foreign debt, the idea the country is facing an "economic crisis" is simply wrong. With oil at about $80 a barrel, Venezuela is running a sizeable current account surplus, and has a healthy level of reserves. Furthermore, the government can borrow internationally as necessary - last month China agreed to loan Venezuela $20bn in an advance payment for future oil deliveries.
Nonetheless, the country still faces significant economic challenges, some of which have been worsened by mistaken macroeconomic policy choices. The economy shrank by 3.3% last year. The international press has trouble understanding this, but the problem was that the government's fiscal policy was too conservative - cutting spending as the economy slipped into recession. This was a mistake, but hopefully the government will reverse this quickly with its planned expansion of public investment this year, including $6bn for electricity generation.
The government's biggest long-term economic mistake has been the maintenance of a fixed, overvalued exchange rate. Although the government devalued the currency in January, from 2.15 to 4.3 to the dollar for most official foreign exchange transactions, the currency is still overvalued. The parallel or black market rate is at more than seven to the dollar.
An overvalued currency - by making imports artificially cheap and the country's exports more expensive - hurts Venezuela's non-oil tradable goods' sectors and prevents the economy from diversifying away from oil. Worse still, the country's high inflation rate (28% over the last year, and averaging 21% annually over the last seven years) makes the currency more overvalued in real terms each year. (The press has misunderstood this problem, too - the inflation itself is too high, but the main damage it does to the economy is not from the price increases themselves but from causing an increasing overvaluation of the real exchange rate.)
But Venezuela is not in the situation of Greece - or even Portugal, Ireland, or Spain. Or Latvia or Estonia. The first four countries are stuck with an overvalued currency - for them, the euro - and implementing pro-cyclical fiscal policies (eg deficit reduction) that are deepening their recessions and/or slowing their recovery. They do not have any control over monetary policy, which rests with the European Central Bank. The latter two countries are in a similar situation for as long as they keep their currencies pegged to the euro, and have lost output six to eight times that of Venezuela over the last two years.
By contrast, Venezuela controls its own foreign exchange, monetary, and fiscal policies. It can use expansionary fiscal and monetary policy to stimulate the economy, and also exchange rate policy - by letting the currency float. A managed, or "dirty" float - in which the government does not set a target exchange rate but intervenes when necessary to preserve exchange rate stability - would suit the Venezuelan economy much better than the current fixed rate. The government could manage the exchange rate at a competitive level, and not have to waste so many dollars, as it does currently, trying to narrow the gap between the parallel and the official rate. Although there were (as usual, exaggerated) predictions that inflation would skyrocket with the most recent devaluation, it did not - possibly because most foreign exchange transactions take place through the parallel market anyway.
Venezuela is well situated to resolve its current macroeconomic problems and pursue a robust economic expansion, as it had from 2003-2008. The country is not facing a crisis, but rather a policy choice.
66 Comments so far
Show AllThis is all the more the perfect reason a 10 year moratorium on capitalism in the US needs to be placed with socialism to take its place. Viva Chavez !!
People should also remind themselves that Mr. Chavez holds hands with the butchers of Tiananmen Square, the murderous anti-democratic Mullahs of Iran, Cuban dictators, and Putin's Russia.
Caracas is now one of the leading murder capital's of the world. Human Rights Watch, that paradigm of right-wing punditry, stated that "Rights abuses under Chavez's reign had 'undercut journalists' freedom of expression, workers' freedom of association, and civil society's ability to promote human rights in Venezuela."
On the so-called economic front: can the author please provide evidence where persons in the PIIGS states routinely cannot purchase basic amenities, such as sugar and rice?
Can the author further elaborate why any sane person or company would invest in Venezuela, when El Presidente routinely seizes company assets and installs incompetent lackey's to run state-owned businesses which further undermine existing and productive businesses?
It is unfortunate some would rather play politics than state that this man is a dunce and taking Venezuela nowhere.
"People should also remind themselves that Mr. Chavez holds hands with the butchers of Tiananmen Square"
And we don't?
More to the point, China is holding most of the US's paper.
Then comes Japan....
Vete de aqui, sr. NEOCON. Ya sabemos que no sabes nada de la Venezuela y su historia por lo que has escrito.
Your true colors are showing!
No need to talk, discuss or argue. Just shut-up and let the self appointed leaders of the "People's Front for the liberation of Judea" do the talking.
Is that a dead parrot I see on your shoulder?
"installs incompetent lackey's"
An apostrophe preceding the s in lackey's makes the word possessive. If the word is
meant to be plural, there should be no apostrophe.
The same rule applies to "leading murder capital's".
Yep, the poster is illiterate and incoherent.
And he even plagiarized from the "wrong" side of the political spectrum when referring to HRW as a "paradigm of right-wing punditry"--I laughed out loud at the foolishness of quoting against his own position!
If he is really a lifer, he should take advantage of the educational programs they have in The Pen. I designed and implemented one in the New Mexico Pen 25 years ago. Back then inmates could get PELL grants, too. I haven't lived in the US since 1993 so I don't know if those still exist.
Or maybe those funds went to AIG and GM, too.
So the quality of one's thinking can be judged by his correct use of the possessive? Need evidence for that.
How many folks do you know, that you consider to be intelligent--are functionally illiterate?
When I see that someone did not even learn what is taught about his native language in primary school, I doubt his intelligence, yes.
And I have to admit I doubt the intelligence of someone who DOESN'T.
Don't bother to come back with the current cant about emotional intelligence. Been there, did not buy it.
Bottom line is, language serves two functions: thinking and communicating. And they are related.
In my book, an incoherent user of language is a muddled thinker.
You are free to hold whatever opinion you choose.
I've taught school for many years and recognized that some of my students understand complex ideas quickly, remember them, and then have trouble expressing what they have learned. There are many reasons for such behavior: a childhood spent away from those that love language, not a native speaker of English, actual brain dysfunction in which some modules work wonderfully well, but not that for verbal expression, and more. I have known engineers who can solve difficult problems but have verbal deficits. That doesn't mean they are stupid, though. You should not be so dismissive of posters who have trouble with the language. You might miss an insight that could lead somewhere.
I realize that it was snarky of me to pick on Lifer's grammatical errors. It's just that his post was so full of logical and factual errors that I felt overwhelmed and resorted to a cheap shot. I'm not apologizing, though.
It is hardly propaganda to state the obvious.
Basic food amenities are rationed and unavailable in many places across the country. Is this in dispute?
Private businesses are seized and people with no background in business, finance, or even general commerce are placed into positions of authority. Of course, you don't seem concerned when those around Chavez feed at the public trough and become millionaires via cronyism.
The Oil and Gas sector's core management and engineering has been eviscerated and been forced to seek employment elsewhere, such as in Canada, America, and Spain. How does forcing your best and brightest to flee the country help the long term prosperity of a country?
Again, I ask, please tell me other than the unsavory mass-murderers in the Kremlin, Tehran, and Beijing, who is it that is lining up to invest in Venezuela?
What does the mistreatment of native Americans and American Imperialism have to do with Chavez not having a clue how to run the Venezuelan economy?
Is this what the "loonie" left is about? Making excuses for Mullahs who slaughtered their own people last year and who stole the election from reformers. Making grand arguments about the viciousness and cruelty of America while excusing the Castro junta? Brushing off that China has been ethnically cleansing itself of non-Han ethnic groups and the poor, while shrieking about the evils of American hegemony!
Make all the ridiculous claims you want. You have far more in common with the Tea-baggers, birther-movement, and the maladroits of the Republican Party, in their dismissal of reality, than anyone who actually believes in progressive values and human liberty.
Before I respond to you nonsense, I must say, people like you refuse to have a balanced view of the country. It's hard to take much of anything you say seriously. You don't offer critiques then acknowledge what endless organizations and groups have documented about the advances that Venezuela has made. You don't come across as someone logically critiquing the country (and you'd never apply your ridiculous standards to countries and movements you approve of). To people like you, there was no pre-Chavez Venezuela. There was no crumbling infrastructure, no horrible and systematic corruption before Chavez, no neglected and underfunded health care system (at least for the non-rich), no neglected and underfunded educational system, no large and growing differences in wealth and Venezuela wasn't a neo-liberal basket case before Chavez took over. As I said above, obvoiusly the revolts in the late 80's, early 90's (supported by a large majority of Venezuelans) happened because Venezuela was a paradise.
"Basic food amenities are rationed and unavailable in many places across the country. Is this in dispute?"
You are pathetic. For one, Venezuela is a poor country, it was FAR poorer before Chavez took over. Only you and the right wing nut sites would state otherwise. See, there WAS a Venezuela before Chavez, and whatever you want ot say about Chavez and the Bolivarian Revolution, it was in far worse shape than the country is in now. Was this situation better or worse for the majority of people in the country before Chavez took over? Did the owners of the supermarkets not announce to the public that they would hoard needed goods from the public (trying to get them to pressure the government, what patriots)? Is this not the latest attempt by fascists like yourself to harm a country trying to pull themselves up fromt the horrible, neo-liberal mess that you hold water for?
"Again, I ask, please tell me other than the unsavory mass-murderers in the Kremlin, Tehran, and Beijing, who is it that is lining up to invest in Venezuela?"
Oh, I see, you live in a bubble. See, the world is very complicated. The US doesn't like Venezuela, you might know that. None the less, they import about 10% of their oil from Venezuela. In the past, during the Third World period (Vijay Prashad wrote a great book on the history of the third world if you're intersted), countries that were ideologically direct opposites would work with one another at times. The Chinese Communists would do things like support the right wing Greek government and sell arms to the contras. Nehru would work with Castro while persecuting domestic leftists. Venezuela is hell on Earth, on the other hand they should turn down countries who need oil or have common interests in some areas when no other country in the world is living up to your lofty standards. Who ISN'T doing business with China? Is Europe damned for doing business with Iran as well? Is Makes logical sense, really.
"How does forcing your best and brightest to flee the country help the long term prosperity of a country?"
You're an idiot. Venezuela is in need of technicians, to claim that they've told people to leave is nonsense. Are you talking about the right wingers who have sabatoged the oil industry? You might play dumb well, but it is well known that PDVSA was full of the parasites that people like you want to put back into place.
I have a question for you anyway: Venezuelans don't want neo-liberalism. It was and is a disaster the world over. You don't like Chavez or anything like him. So what should Venezuela and similar countries do to improve their standard of living, especially when there are domestic elites and powerful forces outside that will attack them with all their might (economically, militarily, through the media) if they choose the wrong policies (basically policies that benefit the poor majority and the not the rich minority)? I expect nothing but silence.
"You are pathetic. For one, Venezuela is a poor country."
Really? The article states that at $80/bbl, the country is flush with cash. Care to reassess your statement?
"you live in a bubble"
There is a substantial difference between buying basketballs from China than trading oil for weapons and heavy armaments. Curious, that a poor country like Venezuela has put in orders in the Billions of dollars for military hardware from both the Chinaman and the Ruskies. Shouldn't that money be spent on the poor to improve their welfare too?
"You're an idiot...PDVSA was full of the parasites"
At least you're consistent in your argumentation. I'm sure Adolf Eichmann would give an equally ingenuous response: They were traitors to the Fatherland; hence they must die.
I thank you for revealing to all of us what truly evil people you are lurking behind the veil of progressive values. Perhaps the Catholic Church has a place in their daycare centers for people like you!
"Really? The article states that at $80/bbl, the country is flush with cash. Care to reassess your statement?"
Man, are you trying to play dumb? So you equate Venezuela having a lot of oil revenues with them being a rich country. Really? Is that your argument? You completely ignored my main points, for obvious reasons. Venezuela was one of the poorest countries in the Western Hemisphere (despite having a lot of natural resources), with no national health care system, a crumbling and underfunded educational system, an economic sysytem that worked for foreign investors and corporations and the tiny domestic elite and not for the poor majority, systematic corruption, far more widespread human rights violations (to this day, a good portion of the human rights violations come from the police, where the right wing parasites are still strong, again, Venezuela is a work in progress), huge and growing differences in wealth and not even a pretense of real democracy. Throw in a government that killed thousands of Venezuelans when they spoke up about the horrible racket, and you have a horror show. I'm sure you were even MORE concerned about the country then than you are now, right? That's because you are objective and aren't a sad, pathetic ideologue who wants a return to pre-Chavez Venezuela. Do you expect the country to go from what it was to being a developed country, with no issues left over from that period, in 12 years? Does it surprise you that a country that was in that bad of shape still has major issues to deal with? Do you realize the condition Venezuela was in before Chavez? As I said, people here will not be moved by your...argument...whatever you call it. You don't even pretend to be objective and people here know too much about the situation to fall for your nonsense.
"There is a substantial difference between buying basketballs from China than trading oil for weapons and heavy armaments."
The US, through the NED, the CIA, USAID, the International Republican and Democratic Institutes, amongst other organizations, have from day one supported the violent, authoritarian opposition. The same opposition that tore up the constitution (voted on and approved by 70% of the citizens in that country), all branches of government and the central bank, and set up a dictatorship in 2002. The same opposition that did the oil lock out, the same student groups that commit violent acts against innocent people, etc. The same organizations are behind the violence in Bolivia and the US has set up military bases in neighboring Colombia, along with continuing to give that government (with the worse human rights record in the hemisphere) weapons and aid. Throw in the fact that Colombian paramilitaries have been busted within Venezuela with the intent of attacking the government. Once again, Venezuela exists in a vacuum, they buy weapons because they are evil and because they want to take over the world, not because they are under attack (in front of the world if you want to use the eyes and brain that god gave you).
"At least you're consistent in your argumentation. I'm sure Adolf Eichmann would give an equally ingenuous response: They were traitors to the Fatherland; hence they must die."
My god, just THINK for one freaking second. Let's say that in the SS administration or the State Department in the US there are employees that are sabatoging the system in order to cause harm to the Obama administration, they want to ferment violence so that the administration (elected by around 60% of the public like in Venezuela) is overthrown, with a regime put in place that the majority of the country opposes. What would you expect to happen in that situation? Would it be authoritarian and Nazi like to throw those parasites out? Would the public here oppose throwing those people out of the government? Do you really think you're making a logical, well thought out argument by calling me a Nazi?
I will ask the same question I asked before: Venezuelans don't want neo-liberalism. You don't like the Bolivarian Revolution. Venezuela is under attack from the most powerful countr(ies)y in the world on all fronts along with the internal elites that work with those foreign entities. So, articulate what could possibly be done to help Venezuela improve the lives of their citizens given this that would be any different than what Chavez has done? I, personally, think that the participatory measures need to be implemented even more than they have, but outside of that I can't think of anything. Maybe you can.
1. It is in dispute. Basic food is not rationed in Venezuela. It is sometimes not as PLENTIFUL as folks would like, as the big distributors have been part of the sabotage of Venezuela's government for the past 11 years. I can't always buy the staple items I want here in Mexico, either--but, even though I despise the spurious dwarf in the presidency, I am not inclined to take to the streets and blame shortages on him. That would be just foolish. Furthermore, unlike YOU, who would have trouble finding Venezuela on a world map, I spend a fair amount of time there and I have NEVER encountered the problems I regularly face here when shopping for food. It's also cheaper there than in Mexico.
2. Private businesses are seized because they have violated the law or because they are core sectors that have not pulled their weight. They are not seized to give them to cronies--and for a GRINGO to talk about cronies feeding at the public trough is either the height of cynicism or just plain stupidity--AIG, B of A, GM, and the beat goes on.
3. As to the folks who betrayed their country in the 2002-03 PDVSA lockout and sabotage--the best and the brightest are not desirable if they are only in it for themselves and cut everybody else off at the knees. Of course that behavior is the Gringo Way--do unto others before they can do unto you--but that doesn't make it ethical or desirable.
4. Who cares who invests in Venezuela? Are YOU an investor? I will answer that for you: NO. And your cold war McCarthy crapola doesn't cut it as argumentation. You are a propagandist--and a real low roller at that.
5. The mistreatment of Native Americans shows the utter viciousness and hypocrisy of gringos, rendering their credibility even to COMMENT on any other countries at a level of absolute zero, that's what.
The rest of your post is nothing but right-wing rant a la Fox News.
Get back to me when you converse about the real world instead of just smearing masturbation fantasies about how great gringoland is on internet threads.
Your response validates my points more than anything I could provide, Comrade.
I'm sure you and rest of the "People's Liberation Front of Judea" will succeed in your meritorious struggle over the villainous forces of Gringoland!
Another crackpot primary school retort.
When you have no arguments, dive under that bed and look for commies.
How many are currently living under yours?
HOW do you know whether students understand anything if they cannot express themselves? That is just crap. We are not talking about solving math problems here--we are talking about posting comments in an internet site, aka: COMMUNICATING. If you cannot do it, you should not be here wasting other folks' time. Muddled thinking is not necessarily an indicator of utter stupidity, but it sure doesn't light my fire. And if you were honest, you would have to admit it doesn't give you a whole lot for your money either.
As for your having taught school, I don't only give courses and seminars about Latin America. I will stand my PhD in English and my 40 years of experience as a specialist in learning AND language learning and teaching up against your defending functional illiteracy as a form of intelligence any day of the week. Bring it on.
I am only just barely a native speaker of English, as my first language was French and I did not become English-only until starting primary school in the US. Yet I manage to write well enough in English to have had a long career as an educator, journalist, poet and playright--and I have the same history in Spanish.
It may be the case that it is not evil deeds that bring the gringo empire into the dustbin of history, but sheer laziness and lack of criteria.
The term "lifer" does not uniformly apply to just prisoners. It applies to a great many persons who have or have had a career in the armed services, someone who is dedicated to a task or mission,... etc.
Frankly, your criticisms are of the lowest level. Instead of addressing the points made, you chose to highlight grammar and pursue a tangent on my moniker as a response. Okay, you're correct on the grammar front. I'm sorry I didn't meet your high expectations of checking my grammar twice.
I was being ironic, lifer grunt. I am fully aware that lifer refers to both dishonorable states of being a prisoner--in the military and in the pen.
My criticisms of you are right fucking on. You made NO points to comment on.
Too bad the military doesn't provide an education so that at least you could learn English.
LOL!
Obviously everyone will take you seriously with you throwing profanity around, Comrade!
That's right RRWW, I'm laughing at your supposed higher intelligence!
Got you with your pants down, huh!
Folks with their pants down always immediately regress to being in the 2nd grade of primary school and pee in the sandbox.
Chaokoh,
Truly, a fossilized grammarian thou art. May "Lifer" acknowledge your acumen with a hearty "¡Mucha's gracia's!" ;-)
The money in Vezuala is being spent on good things, the likes of which the USA never will. If the USA looked after its citizens the way Venezuala does, instead of spending its money on war for the rich, it would potentially be a great place.
Venezuela is free to be friends with any country it likes. The USA, on the other hand is not only friends with murderous regimes, it IS the most murderous country full stop. None of the countries that you mention are anywhere near as murderous as the USA. None of the countries that you mention are in the habit of telling of lies in order to justify murderous invasion and occupations in order to steal oil. The countries that you mention all have better distribution of wealth than the USA.
"the murderous anti-democratic Mullahs of Iran"
Iran is not anti-democratic. While the Iranian democracy is seriously flawed because candidates have to be approved by the church, it still compares well to the USA. Despite western propaganda there is little evidence that the elections were stolen in Iran. In the USA on the other hand, the elections were stolen twice. Al Gore won the election in 2000, and John Kerry probably won in 2004, but Bush was made president. The US brand of democracy has degenerated into a corporatocracy, or if you like, a plutocracy. On the "economic front" it has left the country bankrupt. The politicians elected in the USA do not represent the people, but instead represent the corporation who fund them, who ensure the P.R., and whatever other bribes make the whole thing go round.
"Cuban dictators"
OMG! While it is true that Cuba has not a democracy, Cuba is a country that has managed to feed everybody despite the effects of crippling sanctions from the USA. When you put it in that light, it is doing quite well. The education and health, for example are way up on the scale of countries.
As for investment, there will be plenty of investment, including from places like China. A country that lets foreign corporations take the oil for next to nothing is a country that is allowing itself to be ripped off for the benefit of foreign oil barons. The reason for all the negative propaganda about Venezuela in the USA is because the oil barons are not being able to take Venzuela's oil for next to nothing.
"routinely cannot purchase basic amenities, such as sugar and rice?"
Venezuela? You HAVE indeed been sucking the corporate propaganda! The author of the artical is not a dunce, he just has the ability to see through the propaganda. Have you not noticed the USA gradually getting desperate. Have you noticed that your crime rate is over the top?
And of course the US is absolutely the quintessential personification of universal light, love, and compassion. We have been at war almost continually since what, 1942? Killing, maiming, and destroying in our attempt to control hearts, minds, and especially resources.
To imply that Venezuela, China or lowly Cuba has a worse record than ours is absolute bullshit. Yes I'm aware of the millions that were murdered by Stalin and Mao, but that was then, this is now. And what about the millions we exterminated here under the guise of manifest destiny or the hundreds of thousands that were "disappeared" in South and Central America by the cadre and graduates of our School Of The Americas, if you insist on the complete historical accounting?
Gimme a break. But if you really were (or are) a lifer I can understand your practical necessity to see us as only the good guys and all of our impact areas as the home of the bad guys. To do otherwise would cause so much cognitive dissonance as to make it impossible to cary out your duties. Which is why we no longer have a military draft. Can't have anguished citizen soldiers refusing to carry out their orders or fragging their commanders after all.
NOT 19-42...
more like 1842 or thereabouts -- as in WOUNDED KNEE. from then on - it was WAR, WAR, WAR -- all the time. and that's just the "formal" wars of imperialism...we are not counting the warlike nature from the VERY beginning, starting with the "discovery of america" by Columbus.
and people shoudl also be aware that the USA held the hands of SADDAM HUSSEIN for DECADES while he waged war against IRAN , and committed genocide against his own people, with APPROVAL and HELP by the USA ...
people should also be aware that the USA has several times now gone to BEIJING to KNEEL BEFORE the chinese BEGGING THEM to please continue to BUY US TREASURY BILLS that are WORTHLESS...
people should also be aware that the USA HELD the HAND of SHAH REZA PAHLEVI after installing him to crown himself emperor of Persia - coz they didn't LIKE the persians and iranians VOTING DEMOCRATICALLY a popular , respected MOSSADEGH who KICKED OUT AMERICAN and BRITISH OIL AND GAS COMPANIES stealing Iran's natural resources....and HELPED and ADVICED the Shah's Dreaded secret service to TORTURE his own people.
people should be aware that THE USA held the hands of BRUTAL dictators like PINOCHET, and DRUG-related Criminals LIKE URIBE and the COlombian president.....
people should be aware that the USA held the hands of BRUTAL CORRUPT military generals in south vietnam, so many of them , one after the other, coz the USA to make vietnam its indochinese province against the wishes of the VIETNAMESE in their own land.
people should be aware that the USA STARTED all that HABIT -- of "stealing land, resources, dehumanizing and exploiting and enslaving people everywhere, in a very, very vicious system of exploitation" (John Perkins, Former CIA "economic hitman") and double dealing --
with the NATIVE INDIANS.
people should be aware the USA is only behaving ACCORDING TO ITS REAL NATURE.......
It's very clear from your incoherent post that the dunce here is YOU.
Chavez is one of the most intelligent leaders on the planet. And he is unique in that he has both a brain AND a heart.
So when folks are bound for the Emerald City, they will tag along with Chavez, not with sanctimonious, functionally illiterate nitwits like you.
Only the "something-for-nothing" crowd supports Chavez. I haven't heard that Venezuela has a problem with illegal immigration. As long as Chavez has windfall oil profits with which to bribe the masses they will kowtow to his thuggery.
America isn't perfect but it's good enough for most of us.
After you lose your pension in the stock market, your house is foreclosed and you lose your job, then we'll see if America is still "good enough" for you.
My guess is that you will enthusiastically join the "something-for-nothing" crowd.
TOUCHE!! brilliantly put! which reminds me:
under the Bush administration and GOP congress, and i have not heard it has been changed, congress quietly passed a law which ALLOWS CORPORATIONS to free themselves of responsibility towards their commitments in pensions, citing "bad economy, etc".
it's there somewhere, and i caught a small news item about it...but the media never really reported it much. in other words:
these "pensions?"
hah -- your own employers KNOW they can get OUT of it when the time comes for paying pensions. it's LEGAL.
Venezuela should be compared to other nations in Latin America, not the U.S. And, in that comparison, she does pretty well. So well, that many other nations in the region have chosen to emulate her, and turn a bit more leftward (and away from the horribly abusive oligarchal rule that characterized Latin American 'democracies' for most of the last century). I think we should encourage this movement, here in the U.S., and make common cause with it. A huge source of illegal immigration in the U.S. is Latin Americans fleeing oligarchal rule: which is a slow death squeeze for them. How many illegal immigrants in the U.S. are Venezuelan? I think I just made my point.
Ubrew - your remark reminded me , once more, of a statement in a conversation i had with a very old, clear-minded, clear-eyed italian gentleman a couple of years ago - he was already 102 when I met him. sitting ERECT and reading newspapers without glasses in at least five different languages.
the told me words i will NEVER forget:
"WE of the west have MUCH to be ashamed for. we created our prosperities at the expense of others ...we went to other lands and took their resources and left their people with nothing and in desperation...and then we are SURPRISED and offended that they come to our shores ...we should have left them alone, if we were not going to help them...or trade with them fairly. I spent my life as a nautical engineer because I was always interested in world cultures and to learn about them...and I have traveled far and wide...I KNOW about empires, I know about the Roman Empire, because I AM ROMAN...I saw the rise of the two world wars, i saw , with my brothers as we played in the Piazzas in Italy how the Fascists came to power, that is today happening in the USA. and today - that empire is the USA".
That IS a great point! Also, it was complained that Venezuela deals with Iran. Well, the US pours huge amounts of aid to support the governments of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Israel.
actually - the nation with the greatest quality of "having something for nothing" is none other THAN the USA itself.
its prosperity has been gotten for "nothing" ..at the expense of other nations. americans just BELIEVE "we did it all by ourselves".
WRONG - "the only reason americans are living OUR lifestyles is because it is ONLY PART of a very , very vicious system of exploitation that dehumanizes and enslaves people everywhere" John Perkins, Former CIA "economic hitman".
meaning?
MUCH of what passes for americans as "our self-built prosperity" was Accumulated for "NOTHING" by dehumanizing others and stealing THEIR resources with american PAYING THEM nothing for what it took!
I have long suspected and said for years to friends:
the USA is really a "wealthy country" that has been SUPPORTED BY the REST of the globe!!!
america is the ONE that OWES the world - PLENTY, PLENTY, PLENTY for what americans BELIEVE, delusionally, is their "self-built" greatness.
it is PURE BALONEY.
and no one knows that better than the PEOPLE of OTHER countries that the USA has exploited in order to build its wealth and power - which americans DELUSIONALLY think THEY DID ALL ON THEIR OWN.
hell -- they couldn't even have had ANYTHING of the sort to begin with unless they TOOK THE NATIVE INDIAN LAND for practically NOTHING! and enslaved africans and others without PAYING THEM for their proper value of their LABOR !!!
as the Superb Asiatimesonline writer, Henry CK Liu would say:
"THE USA as a nation has its superpower status which is UNEARNED and UNJUSTIFIED"!
Informing Americans of their true history is the way toward meaningful positive change in US society.
Venezuela DOES have a serious problem with illegal immigration--from Colombia, its next-door neighbor, which has been in a state of civil war since April of 1948 (62 years--I am counting them for you, as your ignorance is absolutely perverse). Colombia has one of the highest rates of displacement of its people in the world--close to that of Sudan!
And where do those folks go when they can get outa Dodgevilla? Why, next door, that's where!
Duh.
Folks like you are living proof of the failure of the US as a social experiment--uneducated, bigoted boobs.
But how could one expect a different outcome from a social experiment founded on genocide and slavery?
And, since you haved turned this into a thread on illegal immigration, let me be the first Indian to remind you that since you are not a Native American, you are an illegal immigrant.
Pack 'em up, move 'em out.
"People should also remind themselves that Mr. Chavez holds hands with the butchers of Tiananmen Square, the murderous anti-democratic Mullahs of Iran, Cuban dictators, and Putin's Russia."
not that China cares, but they will happy to compare loss of life in Tiananmen to Iraq, Afghanistan; their prisons to american ones; their military funding to the usa;their prison populations to USA's; their economic inequalities to usa and ; their life expectancies to usa's. Do they have a guantanomo?
are elite interests in usa less ruthless when their interests are threatened?
I am unaware, but perhaps the chinese have the equals of Goldman Sachs,AIG,citigroup,enron, MCi, alan greenspan, palin .... who have brought such credit to their country?
the chinese will also be happy to note that :
there are MORE chinese riding electric bycicles in SHanghai ALONE than ALL of the United States of AMerica put together. they will also be happy to note that they are NOW the most advanced technologically on a countrywide scale of going green and renewable resources technology -- FAR BEYOND the United States of America........
heck , for every "disappeared" Chinese dissident inside china -- we can only GUESS at how MANY the United States has disappeared EVERYWHERE , in and out of america......
for every Chinese prisoner languishing in inhumane conditions, we can only guess how many "non-combatants" the USA has HIDDEN towards their horrific suffering and deaths and THEN DENY it ever does them!!! while the evidence keeps sprouting out everywhere like mushroom after rain!
The problem in Venezuela is how the present regime has abandoned or destroyed all the country’s infrastructure.
Originally it proclaimed the goal of strengthening agriculture, even alimentary independence. Now almost everything is imported. In addition, Colombia, the principle foreign source for food has been closed so goods must be shipped from more far-away places like Argentina.
Existing business is in peril. Retail sale of meat is in crisis. “Harina pan”, a local corn flour and staple food in the country, is very difficult to find because of present conflicts between the principle company that makes it and the government.
Inflation is rampant. Middle-class people have difficulty filling up their grocery carts. The mega-markets set up by the government are difficult to use unless people have lots of time on their hands because huge lines form in front of scarce commodities.
The principle leaders have not been able to go beyond a very aggressive discourse against capitalism, and they have not been able to construct anything new either. Their attempt at establishing cooperatives has failed. The confiscation of land and industry installations has not created productive alternatives to the existing, but now very frail capitalist structure.
Since no money has been spent on infrastructure, electricity and water are rationed. Some bridges are at the point of collapse. Recently there was news that the one over Maracaibo Lake is severely eroded.
The “missions” that were supposed to take care of the vulnerable and needy are in tatters. Leaders of these programs are replaced several times a year, and it is impossible to maintain coherent programs. Recourses for these programs are used for political proselytism.
If it weren't for oil revenue, Venezuela would have entered the "failed-state" category a long time ago. It is important not to idealize discourse without examing results.
"It is important not to idealize discourse without examing results."
Then that said, compare Venezuela's results to the US's and tell me that the United EMBARRASSMENTS of America are doing hunky dory ! Besides, it was the rightwing governments backed by the US before Chavez entered that left him all this mess. At least Chavez tried cleaning it up unlike Obama continuing Bush's mess.
these punditry comments about venezuela are designed to convince americans that the "culprit" of the "coming instability" in the AMERICAS - both north and south - is Venezuela and its "policies" ...next thing you know - they'll blame venezuela for the US ECONOMY's OWN mistakes - and then use it as a pretext to attack because "venezuela causes instabilities threatening OUR way of LIFE".
sorry - but the American "way of life" is - as is now known all over the world -- one of WAR - INVASIONS, DOMINATIOn, and bringing RUIN AND instability to nations, regions and economies across the globe!
examples?
Vietnam, morphing into bombing and destroying Laos and Cambodia for fear of "the communists spreading into laos and cambodia" - and THEN creating destruction and chaos and OUT of that rose the warlords like pol pot -
ALL OF IT -- CAUSED by the United States of America.
that's the "american way" that americans love to shout about as having to "defend from threats" -- when in reality -
the "american way" HAS BEEN THE GLOBAL THREAT ALL ALONG.
that about SUMS it up!
Venezuela has problems depending on OIL -
the USA has problems on how to STEAL oil BETTER...and then GUARD what it STEALS with its grand ARMY everywhere.......and then SOP IT ALL UP after causing ENVIRONMENTAL DISASTER threatening the ENTIRE USA southern sea coasts, not to mention unknown effects on the ENTIRE caribbean!!!
teddy, I can see how an economy based on oil can prove risky but I remember reading an article, this site or Alternet, explaining how Chavez used the oil revenue wisely and in the end, that's what counts. You can't get almost any leader in the USA to do so even on a local level let alone the Washington shenanigans. Now, I understand that Venezuela produces heavy crude oil which I hear damages the environment more than light crude. I haven't heard Chavez on setting up solar panels and wind turbines as part of his infrastructure but I assume that he is trying to get there. Someone also suggested that he switch from oil to hemp though I don't know how hemp would work for fuel. I wish Chavez lots of luck and I believe that he will prevail in the end. His opponents always try to sack him but in the end, he comes out better than ever making his opponents green with envy.
Just because something has not been published in the gringo media does not mean it does not exist.
If you do a Google, you will find out that Venezuela has a fairly large wind power project going--as well as solar projects.
Here's a start:
http://www.evwind.es/noticias.php?tag=451
And here is a site in English: http://venezuelapower.com/
It is true that the American media is dogpoop when it comes to reporting on renewable energy projects around the world. Thanks for the reminder on google. It slipped my mind when I wrote that earlier response. That is good news that VZ is getting on the ball in going green and I wish VZ the best of luck once again. In fact, I think Chavez should get another 10-20 years as leader for what he is worth and keep VZ as socialist as possible. Just maybe in time, the US will finally settle down and follow suit or I can only hope it tries.
I would like to find out if VZ allows people to buy their own solar panels or wind mills and generate their own electricity free of their electric companies. In the US, unless you own an HOA-free home, it is usually impossible especially if you live in an apartment, condo, or townhouse as I had found out from one of my relatives living in a condo.
Hi READREADWEEPWEEP. thank you for giving us some links as I was trying to find the better ones and more persuasive news...thanks also for your own thoughts..and of course also stanley, kivals, GWnorth ... and so many others in this discussion. much more than the confirmations you gave me...your own views and observations never fail to enrich and educate me in my own understanding of events; and as often as not , you all help me adjust my own views with refreshed different observations like you all offer, hopefully towards my own clearer understanding of matters.
for me, the thing here is: with venezuela having substantial oil resources..at least that country, is in some ways, if not all under the present circumstances of global trade and economies, are using their resource as a way to "buy time" -- in which time they are trying to look forward to when the oil will be gone..and therefore, as you brought to our attention, putting some of it in a way that is more serious than the USA shows in things that everyone in the world knows will become the necessary things to have such as wind power or some kind of sustainable energy source.
in contrast what HAS the 300-million strong most powerful, most technologically advanced, most wealthy country on earth been doing? for the amount of national consciousness and seriousness to change in the context of the USA's great size and power - it practically amounts to NOTHING at all.
in that context - it is countries like venezuela, brazil, denmark, china, even the middle east countries, many developing countries - DESPITE their struggles and far greater economic depravities compared with what americans "live by" (the "american way of life") - that are the visionaries. despite their problems of merely surviving as nations in their own right and even with their feasibly used resources barely enough to answer all their problems...it is THEY that are REALISTIC and acting upon realities.
the USA , on the other hand is the one that lives in a BUBBLE and is delusional..thinking that by INSISTING to continue upon its "american way" - it can weather the global storms which it IS the american way and its propagation worldwide that is the CENTER and and ROOT cause of the storms enveloping the globe.
this is an example of what the ":greatest purveyor of violence in the world" (Reverend Martin Luther King, JR.) INSISTS on being CoRRECT even if it is WRONG..that it is CORRECT to wage WARS towards its insistent way of producing IRRELEVANCIES and naming them "an economic model to follow"....
which exact a price of destructiveness that spans the globe - which OTHER countries are merely struggling to try to SURVIVE, and buy time, if only to try a different path with the increasing realization that the planet can NOT sustain what we have done to it and ourselves -- according , primarily, to the "american way" dogma.
sounds to me like some bitter American - complaining about the flaws of Venezuela just because and MAINLY because Venezuela is trying to find ITS own path AWAY from US dominance.
as things stand - venezuela ALREADY is far better off after unshackling itself of American dominance of many decades. gosh --
has it been that LONG? and Chavez has had only a decade or so of trying to fix AMERICAN IMPOSED DISASTERS of SEVERAL GENERATIONS?
and some americans COMPLAIN that they're not doing things WELL ENOUGH?
that's like the instigator and cause of HUGE FIRES and Devastation complaining that the firemen are having such a hard time putting out the fires and saving homes and people....
the USA has NO CREDIBILITY in casting aspersions about how other economies are endangering themselves.
they will find their own way, as ARGENTINA DID, from under far WORSE effects of AMERICAN DOMINATED and instigated DISASTROUS ECONOMICS decades ago.
and so will argentina even if it takes pain to do so. the IMPORTANT thing for THEM - is they are Venezuela - NOT an AMERICAN PROVINCE. and they are BETTER OFF as Venezuela.
and THAT's what some americans DON'T LIKE! even if THEIR own country's system and prescriptions have NOTHING TO OFFER that is actually beneficial to other countries and has ALWAYS ONLY been based on exploiting and enslaving others.
as John Perkins, Former CIA "economic hitman" - who WORKED SOUTH AMERICA for decades for "our project of empire" said:
"what most americans don't really understand or admit is: we are living our lifestyles ONLY because it is part of a very, very vicious system of exploitation that dehumanizes and enslaves people everywhere".
and VENEZUELA KNOWS IT. and soem americans don't LIKE it that chavez and venezuela act on THAT knowledge and WON'T let themselves be turned once more into an american province.