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Operation Breakfast Redux: Could Pakistan 2010 Go the Way of Cambodia 1969?
Sitting in air-conditioned comfort, cans of Coke and 7-Up within reach as they watched their screens, the ground controllers gave the order to strike under the cover of darkness. There had been no declaration of war. No advance warning, nothing, in fact, that would have alerted the "enemy" to the sudden, unprecedented bombing raids. The secret computer-guided strikes were authorized by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, just weeks after a new American president entered the Oval Office. They represented an effort to wipe out the enemy's central headquarters whose location intelligence experts claimed to have pinpointed just across the border from the war-torn land where tens of thousands of American troops were fighting daily.
In remote villages where no reporters dared to go, far from the battlefields where Americans were dying, who knew whether the bombs that rained from the night sky had killed high-level insurgents or innocent civilians? For 14 months the raids continued and, after each one was completed, the commander of the bombing crews was instructed to relay a one-sentence message: "The ball game is over."
The campaign was called "Operation Breakfast," and, while it may sound like the CIA's present air campaign over Pakistan, it wasn't. You need to turn the clock back to another American war, four decades earlier, to March 18, 1969, to be exact. The target was an area of Cambodia known as the Fish Hook that jutted into South Vietnam, and Operation Breakfast would be but the first of dozens of top secret bombing raids. Later ones were named "Lunch," "Snack," and "Supper," and they went under the collective label "Menu." They were authorized by President Richard Nixon and were meant to destroy a (non-existent) "Bamboo Pentagon," a central headquarters in the Cambodian borderlands where North Vietnamese communists were supposedly orchestrating raids deep into South Vietnam.
Like President Obama today, Nixon had come to power promising stability in an age of unrest and with a vague plan to bringing peace to a nation at war. On the day he was sworn in, he read from the Biblical book of Isaiah: "They shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks." He also spoke of transforming Washington's bitter partisan politics into a new age of unity: "We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one another, until we speak quietly enough so that our words can be heard as well as our voices."
Return to the Killing Fields
In recent years, many commentators and pundits have resorted to "the Vietnam analogy," comparing first the American war in Iraq and now in Afghanistan to the Vietnam War. Despite a number of similarities, the analogy disintegrates quickly enough if you consider that U.S. military campaigns in post-invasion Afghanistan and Iraq against small forces of lightly-armed insurgents bear little resemblance to the large-scale war that Presidents Lyndon B. Johnson and Richard Nixon waged against both southern revolutionary guerrillas and the military of North Vietnamese leader Ho Chi Minh, who commanded a real army, with the backing of, and supplies from, the Soviet Union and China.
A more provocative -- and perhaps more ominous -- analogy today might be between the CIA's escalating drone war in the contemporary Pakistani tribal borderlands and Richard Nixon's secret bombing campaign against the Cambodian equivalent. To briefly recapitulate that ancient history: In the late 1960s, Cambodia was ruled by a "neutralist" king, Norodom Sihanouk, leading a weak government that had little relevance to its poor and barely educated citizens. In its borderlands, largely beyond its control, the North Vietnamese and Vietcong found "sanctuaries."
Sihanouk, helpless to do anything, looked the other way. In the meantime, sheltered by local villagers in distant areas of rural Cambodia was a small insurgent group, little-known communist fundamentalists who called themselves the Khmer Rouge. (Think of them as the 1970s equivalent of the Pakistani Taliban who have settled into the wild borderlands of that country largely beyond the control of the Pakistani government.) They were then weak and incapable of challenging Sihanouk -- until, that is, those secret bombing raids by American B-52s began. As these intensified in the summer of 1969, areas of the country began to destabilize (helped on in 1970 by a U.S.-encouraged military coup in the capital Phnom Penh), and the Khmer Rouge began to gain strength.
You know the grim end of that old story.
Forty years, almost to the day, after Operation Breakfast began, I traveled to the town of Snuol, close to where the American bombs once fell. It is a quiet town, no longer remote, as modern roads and Chinese-led timber companies have systematically cut down the jungle that once sheltered anti-government rebels. I went in search of anyone who remembered the bombing raids, only to discover that few there were old enough to have been alive at the time, largely because the Khmer Rouge executed as much as a quarter of the total Cambodian population after they took power in 1975.
Eventually, a 15-minute ride out of town, I found an old soldier living by himself in a simple one-room house adorned with pictures of the old king, Sihanouk. His name was Kong Kan and he had first moved to the nearby town of Memot in 1960. A little further away, I ran into three more old men, Choenung Klou, Keo Long, and Hoe Huy, who had gathered at a newly built temple to chat.
All of them remembered the massive 1969 B-52 raids vividly and the arrival of U.S. troops the following year. "We thought the Americans had come to help us," said Choenung Klou. "But then they left and the [South] Vietnamese soldiers who came with them destroyed the villages and raped the women."
He had no love for the North Vietnamese communists either. "They would stay at people's houses, take our hammocks and food. We didn't like them and we were afraid of them."
Caught between two Vietnamese armies and with American planes carpet-bombing the countryside, increasing numbers of Cambodians soon came to believe that the Khmer Rouge, who were their countrymen, might help them. Like the Taliban of today, many of the Khmer Rouge were, in fact, teenaged villagers who had responded, under the pressure of war and disruption, to the distant call of an inspirational ideology and joined the resistance in the jungles.
"If you ask me why I joined the Khmer Rouge, the main reason is because of the American invasion," Hun Sen, the current prime minister of Cambodia, has said. "If there was no invasion, by now, I would be a pilot or a professor."
Six years after the bombings of Cambodia began, shortly after the last helicopter lifted off the U.S. embassy in Saigon and the flow of military aid to the crumbling government of Cambodia stopped, a reign of terror took hold in the capital, Phnom Penh.
The Khmer Rouge left the jungles and entered the capital where they began a systemic genocide against city dwellers and anyone who was educated. They vowed to restart history at Year Zero, a new era in which much of the past became irrelevant. Some two million people are believed to have died from executions, starvation, and forced labor in the camps established by the Angkar leadership of the Khmer Rouge commanded by Pol Pot.
Unraveling Pakistan
Could the same thing happen in Pakistan today? A new American president was ordering escalating drone attacks, in a country where no war has been declared, at the moment when I flew from Cambodia across South Asia to Afghanistan, so this question loomed large in my mind. Both there and just across the border, Operation Breakfast seems to be repeating itself.
In the Afghan capital, Kabul, I met earnest aid workers who drank late into the night in places like L'Atmosphere, a foreigner-only bar that could easily have doubled as a movie set for Saigon in the 1960s. Like modern-day equivalents of Graham Greene's "quiet American," these "consultants" describe a Third Way that is neither Western nor fundamentalist Islam.
At the very same time, CIA analysts in distant Virginia are using pilot-less drones and satellite technology to order strikes against supposed terrorist headquarters across the border in Pakistan. They are not so unlike the military men who watched radar screens in South Vietnam in the 1960s as the Cambodian air raids went on.
In 2009, on the orders of President Obama, the U.S. unloaded more missiles and bombs on Pakistan than President Bush did in the years of his secret drone war, and the strikes have been accelerating in number and intensity. By this January, there was a drone attack almost every other day. Even if, this time around, no one is using the code phrase, "the ball game is over," Washington continually hails success after success, terrorist leader after terrorist leader killed, implying that something approaching victory could be somewhere just over the horizon.
As in the 1960s in Cambodia, these strikes are, in actuality, having a devastating, destabilizing effect in Pakistan, not just on the targeted communities, but on public consciousness throughout the region. An article in the January 23rd New York Times indicated that the fury over these attacks has even spread into Pakistan's military establishment which, in a manner similar to Sihanouk in the 1960s, knows its limits in its tribal borderlands and is publicly uneasy about U.S. air strikes which undermine the country's sovereignty. "Are you with us or against us?" the newspaper quoted a senior Pakistani military officer demanding of Secretary of Defense Robert Gates when he spoke last month at Pakistan's National Defense University.
Even pro-American Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani has spoken out publicly against drone strikes. Of one such attack, he recently told reporters, "We strongly condemn this attack and the government will raise this issue at [the] diplomatic level."
Despite the public displays of outrage, however, the American strikes have undoubtedly been tacitly approved at the highest levels of the Pakistani government because of that country's inability to control militants in its tribal borderlands. Similarly, Sihanouk finally looked the other way after the U.S. provided secret papers, code-named Vesuvius, as proof that the Vietnamese were operating from his country.
While most Democratic and Republican hawks have praised the growing drone war in the skies over Pakistan, some experts in the U.S. are starting to express worries about them (even if they don't have the Cambodian analogy in mind). For example, John Arquilla, a professor of defense analysis at the Naval Postgraduate School who frequently advises the military, says that an expansion of the drone strikes "might even spark a social revolution in Pakistan."
Indeed, even General David Petraeus, head of U.S. Central Command, wrote in a secret assessment on May 27, 2009: "Anti-U.S. sentiment has already been increasing in Pakistan... especially in regard to cross-border and reported drone strikes, which Pakistanis perceive to cause unacceptable civilian casualties." Quoting local polls, he wrote: "35 percent [of Pakistanis] say they do not support U.S. strikes into Pakistan, even if they are coordinated with the GOP [government of Pakistan] and the Pakistan Military ahead of time."
The Pakistani Army has, in fact, launched several significant operations against the Pakistani Taliban in Swat and in South Waziristan, just as Sihanouk initially ordered the Cambodian military to attack the Khmer Rouge and suppress peasant rebellions in Battambang Province. Again like Sihanouk in the late 1960s, however, the Pakistanis have balked at more comprehensive assaults on the Taliban, and especially on the Afghan Taliban using the border areas as "sanctuaries."
The New Jihadists
What happens next is the $64 million question. Most Pakistani experts dismiss any suggestion that the Taliban has widespread support in their country, but it must be remembered that the Khmer Rouge was a fringe group with no more than 4,000 fighters at the time that Operation Breakfast began.
And if Cambodia's history is any guide to the future, the drone strikes do not have to create a groundswell for revolution. They only have to begin to destabilize Pakistan as would, for instance, the threatened spread of such strikes into the already unsettled province of Baluchistan, or any future American ground incursions into the country. A few charismatic intellectuals like Khmer Rouge leader Pol Pot always have the possibility of taking it from there, rallying angry and unemployed youth to create an infrastructure for disruptive change.
Despite often repeated claims by both the Bush and Obama administrations that the drone raids are smashing al-Qaeda's intellectual leadership, more and more educated and disenchanted young men from around the world seem to be rallying to the fundamentalist cause.
Some have struck directly at American targets like Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the 23-year-old Nigerian who attempted to blow up a Detroit-bound plane on Christmas Day 2009, and Dr. Humam Khalil Abu Mulal al-Balawi, the 32-year-old Jordanian double agent and suicide bomber who killed seven CIA operatives at a military base in Khost, southern Afghanistan, five days later.
Some have even been U.S.-born, like Anwar al-Awlaki, the 38-year-old Islamic preacher from New Mexico who has moved to Yemen; Adam Pearlman, a 32-year-old Southern Californian and al-Qaeda spokesman now known as "Azzam the American," who reportedly lives somewhere in the Afghan-Pakistan border regions; and Omar Hammami, the 25-year-old Syrian-American from Alabama believed to be an al-Shabaab leader in Somalia.
Like the Khmer Rouge before them, these new jihadists display no remorse for killing innocent civilians. "One of the sad truths I have come to see is that for this kind of mass violence, you don't need monsters," says Craig Etcheson, author of After the Killing Fields and founder of the Documentation Center of Cambodia. "Ordinary people will do just fine. This thing lives in all of us."
Even King Sihanouk, who had once ordered raids against the Khmer Rouge, eventually agreed to support them after he had been overthrown in a coup and was living in exile in China. Could the same thing happen to Pakistani politicians if they fall from grace and U.S. backing?
What threw Sihanouk's fragile government into serious disarray -- other than his own eccentricity and self-absorption -- was the devastating spillover of Nixon's war in Vietnam into Cambodia's border regions. It finally brought the Khmer Rouge to power.
Pakistan 2010, with its enormous modern military and industrialized base, is hardly impoverished Cambodia 1969. Nonetheless, in that now ancient history lies both a potential analogy and a cautionary tale. Beware secret air wars that promise success and yet wreak havoc in lands that are not even enemy nations.
When his war plans were questioned, Nixon pressed ahead, despite a growing public distaste for his war. A similar dynamic seems to be underway today. In 1970, after Operation Breakfast was revealed by the New York Times, Nixon told his top military and national security aides: "We cannot sit here and let the enemy believe that Cambodia is our last gasp."
Had he refrained first from launching Operation Breakfast and then from supping on the whole "menu," some historians like Etcheson believe a genocide would have been averted. It would be a sad day if the drone strikes, along with the endless war that the Obama administration has inherited and that is now spilling over ever more devastatingly into Pakistan, were to create a new class of fundamentalists who actually had the capacity to seize power.
- Posted in




41 Comments so far
Show AllAnd the Afghans are eating our breakfast and blowing it back! It's Their #@%&* COUNTRY, NOT ours. Get Out; just(ly) GO!
Nixon's secret bombing raids on Cambodia, followed by the actual invasion of Cambodia in 1970 by US and south Vietnamese forces, led to an article of impeachment being introduced by antiwar members of the House of Representatives several years later as part of the Watergate scandal hearings. That particular high crime alleged against the Nixon White House - first carpet bombing, then launching a ground war of aggression into Cambodia without prior authorization by the Congress - was eventually withdrawn by its sponsors when the proposed articles of impeachment directly related to the Watergate break-in and coverup were approved by Sam Irwin's Committee.
The Gulf of Tonkin resolution did not extend to military operations inside Cambodia. Neither does the 2001 AUMF authorize drone attacks inside Pakistan (or Yemen, or Somalia, or anywhere else except where those who actually took part in the terrorist attack of September 11, 2001 might be found).
In retrospect, what is amazing about the Vietnam War is that it did not produce terrorist incidents inside the United States. There was nothing new or novel about plane hijackings, the clandestine placement of bombs, or even suicide bombings in the 60's and early 70's. Yet neither the Vietnamese nor the Cambodians directed such tactics at the continental United States.
In addition to the insult that drone war mission creep brings to the people of the Af/Pak border region and to the doctrine of separation of powers under the US Constitution when it comes to waging war, we should expect that this time around Uncle Sam shall reap what Uncle Sam so cavalierly sows.
Bill from Saginaw
Sioux Rose
BILL: You know history's details far better than I do, but I can say one thing with respect to your well-stated post: the TIMING was not yet ripe for the terrorist response you mentioned. Allow me an odd analogy. We all know people, or one person in particular, who do all the wrong things: they smoke a lot, drink too much, eat all the unhealthy foods; and then brag about being as strong as they were in their youth. Indeed, they appear quite robust. Then one day, you hear through the grapevine that this individual just collapsed and fell over, dead as a door knob.
The U.S. is like that braggart. It does all the "wrong" things, and throws a little mercy money here and there to give the illusion of charity, when all the while, as Naomi Klein's "Shock Doctrine" exposes, the motive is to get inside impoverished lands to privatize their industries and essentially make life more miserable for "the least of these." Like the arrogant fellow mentioned, the U.S. still bounds about creating misery, war, havoc, and environmental calamity and is STILL STANDING. Perhaps not for long. Things do come full circle... and the astrological portents are NOT easy on this nation for the next few years. If there still is a CD forum, and this prediction does not come to pass, I will gladly own that and perhaps be glad in that instance to be proven wrong.
I said months ago that the economic crisis is hardly over... and I mentioned that the end of 2009 into early 2010 was one vulnerable phase (stocks, ugh!), with a HUGE perturbation in May-June possibly holding to August, time of some big fireworks. The astro-logos defines the relationships between the larger cycles of time, and their imprints here on earth. While the human (me) may err in her analysis, the cycles do not lie. Just as I have sometimes seen The Weather Channel, for all its models, misread where a hurricane will go, or whether or not it will rain. We are imperfect channels doing our best to read the "sign" language emanating from a living cosmos.
Let's not forget that the Muslim fundamentalists who take over Pakistan will also come into possession of nuclear-armed missiles.
Sioux Rose
CHAOKOH: That is exactly what my big fear is! And it's so seldom mentioned in any MSM channels! At this point, given the way the US military like a drunken cowboy with unlimited cash on a worldwide gun-toting adventure, has laid over 1,500,000 to their premature rest... I would imagine that a lot of well-placed Muslim operatives would be salivating for a chance to retaliate against the nation that has humiliated them, left their lands littered in toxic (DU) debris, and murdered entire families wiping out long lineages... I am unsure of the full measure and species of karma's boomerang, but I am sure it's coming to the Homeland Security state. The carnage is inexcusable, and nothing at all has been learned, nor do the "leaders" serve the interests of citizens. I refuse to legitimize any notion of consensus around these wars when the Media has used generals, paid experts, and its right wing shock jocks to lie and therefore create plausible outcomes and reasons for combat where NONE rightfully existed. Something will take the mad giant down, and whether it's the repeated blows of rapid climate change (all the storms now marching across the U.S.), its own vacuum-suctioned economy (where did the jobs and money go?), or the retaliatory sting of vengeance's metaphorical tail... or all three. Evil is evil and allotted no "get out of karma" free pass.
Wonderfully put. Thank you.
"I would imagine that a lot of well-placed Muslim operatives would be salivating for a chance to retaliate against the nation that has humiliated them, left their lands littered in toxic (DU) debris, and murdered entire families wiping out long lineages."
It just makes me insane that our "leaders" just can not see the real logic of this and where the supposedly increasing number of "terrorists" are coming from. Every one of those damn drone-borne missle attacks kills innocent people. This isn't supposed to somewhat annoy their remaining friends and relatives. These occupations are insane. Literally insane. It can not end well.
/rhetorical question
Why aren't Pakistan's nukes as much a worry to our fascist rulers as potential Iranian or actual Israeli nukes?
/end rq
Sioux Rose
KENT: Responding to WHY they don't see it (where terrorist acts beget more terrorism); here's my take:
1. They believe in End Times and truly feel it does not matter. The end is near.
2. They are blinded by profit and with money their god, they really don't CARE what the outcome of bad policies becomes so long as the gravy train rolls for the MIC and its well-paid enablers.
3. They have their protection plans mapped out, and are sociopaths essentially ready, willing, and able to turn a portion of the rest of us into sacrificial lambs.
P.S. Thank you for the compliment.
Sioux Rose, I have thought about your point #3. From a sociopathic mindset, it might actually make sense. The right-wing average Joe's are stupid not to realize this. And the possibility that they may actually have more in common with others on the left than with their capitalist masters - for whom they are nothing more than useful idiots and totally expendable.
Sioux Rose
ALCYON: I live in the Bible belt. One of my neighbors is retired military, you know the type, always has a flag flying out front. In fact, he got very upset when someone else let their flag get tattered by weather. Anyway, he sells used bicycles and I got two from him; and strangely enough I went by his house one day to ask if he'd repair a flat tire and that's when my eyes fell upon this adorable brown and white puppy, the ONLY one not yet promised to a buyer. Because I got my darling little dog from him, he has my email and he sends me LOTS of right wing emails. I don't read most of them, but yesterday he sent one which was alerting people to the big brother nature of the Internet and its communications being watched. I thought this, too* might be an issue upon which both "sides" could agree. I keep a low profile here as the rise of Christendom has never been good news for mystics, and although I feel my radar is on low frequency here, given the way things are going, I rule nothing out. Law-less is the rule these days, not the exception; and if the money tree dries up, we can expect more vigilante style "justice." The people on CD who speak about organizing in their communities probably don't live in the Bible belt.
*The other issues are health care, and the banker's own monster ball on the public's dime.
Excellent, as usual, SR.
Your point about living in the Bible Belt strikes home. As somebody said once, I live in the Buckle of the Bible Belt, with two churches a long toss of a Molotov cocktail away. And HUNDREDS of very odd congregations in their little churches scattered all about.
I am also in the Gun Nut Arena, with shotguns behind the seats, frequent gun shows (where _anyone_ can buy one), gun safes for sale in local farm-supply stores, and a distrust of the government that makes our own seen here on CD seem tame in comparison. So spouting PROGRESSIVE ideas is (literally) not healthy. Ostracization is not any fun.
So my organizing has to be very careful. Again and gain a potential member has proved to have a paranoid fixation that corrupts their world-view sufficiently to render them unsuitable. So it goes very slow.
Gary
“Show me a hero and I will write you a tragedy.”
-- F. Scott Fitzgerald
Sioux Rose
Thanks, Gary. I've been posting for several years, and some of us who are courageous enough to retain the same screen name, begin to recognize each other's particular slants and predilections. RFLOH and I have had some debates on astrology, which is fine; and a few on porn. S/he tends to be a stickler for details, and while I respect his/her intelligence, OUR sensibilities could not be more polarized. We show each other respect in the forum, which is ideal. I am here to learn things I didn't know, and share what I do know. There are a few who know little and yet feel entitled to throw symbolic rotten tomatoes at those of us who take our work very seriously. In any case, thanks for the head's up. Perhaps RFLOH will speak for his/her self, and elaborate further?
Would someone care to define for me what is a "Muslim fundamentalist?" A simple explanation will do. I'm waiting...
Operation Prayer Breakfast empirePie Febraury 8th, 2010
Scrabbled eggs and bomb agains
born again s
chanting ‘we’re number one’
the super bombers for kingdom come
bow to the destiny that is bliss
Though we may sometimes miss
the remiss of greater good
pays the bill
from the shining City on the Hill
This is a pretty poor article. Is Chatterjee comparing Pakistan to Cambodia, simply because he is familiar with Cambodia? As Chatterjee himself admits, there are pretty big differences.
How about trying to analyse Pakistan, as Pakistan. Not as Cambodia, not by trying to tie in non-Pakistanis, or something else, but as Pakistan.
Or if you lack the expertise, then admit it. It is interesting that Chatterjee doesn't link any PAKISTANI newspapers, but links the NYT, and the Telegraph. It is interesting that the only quotes he gets from Pakistanis, are only from the elite leaders, from reports from the NYT, and the Telegraph.
I am implying that the author shouldn't write about Pakistan if he lacks the expertise to do so. If he is an expert on Cambodia, then write about Cambodia.
I am implying that I wish that writers would stop trying to make simplistic general links. Just because it was a well known historical event doesn't mean that it is relevant.
And the article is about Pakistan. Not Afghanistan. They are not the same, no matter how much people conflate them as "Af-Pak".
The problem with quotes from the NYT or the Telegraph isn't so much they support elitist views, or that they are MSM. The problem is that those are not PAKISTANI newspapers.
Was the author too lazy to read through Pakistani newspapers? Pakistani web fora? Was the author too lazy to talk to PAKISTANIS, instead of westerners, and then resorting to getting a couple quotes from a couple Pakistani leaders out of a couple western papers?
When writing an article that is basically about Pakistan, is it really too much to ask that the author provide some PAKISTANI perspectives?
Or put it this way, do you think that foreign writers writers on the US,say a UK writer, should pull quotes from Obama and Palin, out of a couple UK papers, and then leave it at that?
Sioux Rose
RFLOH: I liked the article because the parallels are those of US military strategy, or lack of same, and like an attorney he's establishing PATTERN. Honestly, for all your meticulous fact-checking you often miss the forest for the trees. I realize you're entitled to your opinion, but you easily fall into the trap I'd classify as "tyranny through categorization." Sometimes a too-narrow focus on particulars means you miss the beauty of what's on display in its fullness.
SR, this seems to be the fallacy of Composition. Where a conclusion is drawn about a whole based on the features of its constituents when, in fact, no justification provided for the inference. Both posts (and perhaps the article itself) COULD be accused of this. Patterns are tricky things. Though 1t IS easy, as suggested, to see a parallel where in fact none exists when examined more thoroughly.
The inference here from rfloh is that the Cambodia parallel is not justified because the writer doesn't provide links to any Pakistan news sources but aren't the majority of these that don't follow the party line (in English) in Urdu? And this article was written for TomDispatch.com, an American site. So of course the links would be to English language papers actually carrying fairly balanced accounts (for a change). So the inference seems unjustified.
Gary
See http://www.opifexphoenix.com/reasoning/fallacies/index.htm
“Tragedy is a tool for the living to gain wisdom, not a guide by which to live.”
-- Robert Francis Kennedy
No. that is not my inference. Read Chatterjee's article. He himself admits that there are big difference between the 2 countries. And then he tries to force fit his theory anyway. The inference is not justified because Chatterjee does a poor job arguing why Pakistan is comparable to Cambodia.
That he doesn't provide ANY Pakistani perspectives, other than a couple quotes pulled out of one US, and one UK paper, is a different problem. ANOTHER problem with the article. Though it is of course linked.
If he couldn't provide a single link to a Pakistani source, then why the heck did he not talk to any Pakistani person? Even a Pakistani in America, if couldn't find any Pakistanis in Pakistan to talk to. He had no trouble talking to Cambodians.
Chatterjee's article has 2 problems, 2 problems that afflict a LOT of (English language) "western" coverage of "non-western" countries, whether it is Pakistan, or Russia, or Ukraine, etc.
Firstly, the writer tries to force fit in general simplistic theories and examples. Even if he himself admits that there are big differences between his examples.
Secondly, the writer makes either no attempt, or minimal attempt to find out what people in that country think, whether a janitor, a roadsweep, a waiter, a taxi driver, a doctor, an engineer, a teacher. Nothing. The writer makes minimal attempt to provide a local perspective.
Thirdly, this technique of writing about international affairs, of "parachuting in", of writers coming in with preconceived theories, and making some simplistic generalisations, and then writing their articles based on those preconceived notions, regardless of the local realities, is due to either lack of expertise, or worse, the writer doesn't give a rat's flying ass about the perspectives of locals and doesn't give a rat's flying ass about coming up with a good analysis. Regardless of the reason, the result is an article that only views the situation from a (simple-minded) US perspective.
That Chatterjee's readers are Americans is PRECISELY why it is important that he provide the perspectives of Pakistanis when writing about Pakistan, instead of yet more American perspectives. Since Americans are Chatterjee's writers, where the heck do you think that they are going to get Pakistani perspectives from?
That Chatterjee's readers are Americans is PRECISELY why it is important that he not try to force theories, and try to provide Pakistan specific analysis, analysis that is specific the realities of Pakistan, not the Cambodia 40 years ago, simply because he appears to be an expert on Cambodia. If Chatterjee was writing about say, Canada, this wouldn't be so important, since Americans are familiar with Canada, and can easily obtain Canadian perspectives, and thus, can far more easily come up with a nuanced view on Canada.
The problem with articles that first, try to force fit in simplistic theories, and secondly that don't provide ANY local perspectives, is that readers end up with a VERY simplistic understanding of the situation. Almost always a very simplistic manichean view. This is true whether of Pakistan, or Russia, or Ukraine, etc.
That this technique of writing about international affair is used by a writer on a leftist site is another problem. I expect better out of leftist writers.
I suggest you read what Edward Said had to say about Orientalism, though that isn't a precise illustration.
Among those who are dying from this world at all times, how many of these aren't being murdered in one way or another?
The way we live our lives engenders the forces that free us or bind us when we pass through from this world.
We have entered Humanity's Next Cycle. Where is the fish that can escape the Net of Destiny being tossed upon these earthly waters in these hours?
Is CD HTML? I can never post a hyperlink here.
--------------------------------------------
No, it seems to be homemade software and doesn't support any html operators or even their square-bracket equivalent. I'd guess whoever wrote it had never heard of human-factors psychology, which is particularly saddening given the importance of the site. Oh well.
No, it seems like a 'policy decision' not to allow hyperlinks - because they used to be allowed in the past. Possibly due to spam? But they seem to have gone overboard and removed all html tags - such as italics. I wrote to them once requesting the 'em' tag to be allowed - which allows italics, so some 'emphasis' can be shown without resorting to other "tricks" such as CAPS or *using the asterisk*. It would also avoid some confusion when people respond to someone's comment by quoting parts of the previous comment.
The history of CD's conflicted attitude and policies toward its comments threads is a can of worms; I would write "don't get me started", but I have learned the hard way that there is very little tolerance of this topic here. Love it or leave it!
FYI, at one time CD comments permitted HTML tags for bolding and italics. But a few technically-proficient users added text colors, different fonts and sizes, and graphics with and without embedded links. The multi-media effects were impressive, but occasionally too flashy, distracting, self-indulgent, and technically compromising (?).
The present no-frills text editor is the result. Perhaps this is why the administrators are equivocal about automatically deleting all-caps comments. I wouldn't post in all caps myself, but when using caps is the ONLY stylistic emphasis available, one must expect that it will be used to a fare-thee-well.
· Yr Obd't Servant
That's rather interesting. Thanks to you and Alcyon for the history info - it was obviously before my time!
Among other HF problems, I find it disappointing that the "NEW" flag is a graphic (and therefore untargetable for search), that indentation is the only sign of the tree structure, and that when the page is split, the "new" flags on any but the first piece vanish before they can be seen. It'd be much better to have the "NEW" be actual text ( {span class="NewPostFlag" }*NEW*{/span}, only of course with angle brackets not curly brackets ), to have the parent-child relationships made visible by graphics chars, and to have the "new" flags persevere until a different thread is loaded. And of course allowing simple flavoring. If people were able to trick the system into allowing more html than provided, the trap filter must be *very* loosely written indeed!
I just looked at the source for a thread and felt puzzled by some of the representation decisions. It reinforces my suspicion that the software is a hack by someone who doesn't do it for a living. Oh well.
Mairead, the "new" flag *IS* text, not graphic. If you use Firefox, for example, you can search for any text by hitting Ctrl+F, and in the "Find" box at the left-bottom of the screen, type in the text you want to find in the page. You can step through the instances where this text string appears by clicking on 'Next' or 'Previous'. Of course, "new" will take you through all the occurrences of "new" - including "news". You can still minimize these steps by typing in a "space" first, followed by "new" and again a "space" - that way at least you'll avoid "news", "newly", etc.. I agree - the "new" tag gets lost on the second and subsequent pages - there must be a way to 'fix' that. Also, when the comment thread becomes too long, the indentation makes it a hassle, as the column keeps getting narrower. I think that can be fixed too, without much difficulty.
I wouldn't be too hard on the software - because in a large site with so many users, the emphasis has to be on security and decent performance - in terms of page load time. I think it's a deliberate choice to keep the features to a minimum. I have seen other sites that are more flashy, but take longer to load.
Bless my soul, you're right about the 'new' tag being text. How embarrassing. I must have done something silly when I tried searching because the search failed. So I concluded without investigating further that it was a graphic. My ears are red.
You all should just be thankful that CD isn't still banning people for writing comments critical of Obama from the left!
But, I never could understand why they went so viciously after that "namaste" guy for just using fancy fonts and bolds in his/her posts.
- pjd12, formerly pjd, USAn, many others
Really? Hmm...must have been before I came along here. Should be easy to send off an email to the poster from the administrator. BTW, is Obama already a "Dear Leader" or what? :)
E-mails were sent many times and never answered. It was during the election, and I guess the CD adm. felt he needed to maximize the chances of him getting elected, so CD was a no criticism of Obama zone.
Sioux Rose
PJD: I miss him a lot, too. He is quite a profound thinker with a very developed mind and unique perspectives; plus he's got the gift of communication with which to convey them.
Maybe you had typed in as 'NEW' and had the "Match case" checked? So it was probably looking for upper case letters? I've done that sometimes. No biggie.
When does a nation stop and do a bit of soul searching? Is it even important to look back on history?
A critical factor in this whole Af-Pak mess is the Pakistani military. They got used to wielding power, thanks to regular and somewhat generous patronage by the USA all through the Cold War. The Americans had always suspected that India was being too close to the Soviets, and so had tried to have an "ally" in that region. If they had tried to understand India better, they would have known that while some Indian leaders might have had socialist leanings, India becoming communist was out of the question - and hence, was best left alone. Obviously this lesson has been learned - but decades later. But they had people like John Kenneth Galbraith, who was not only close to JFK, but also to the Indian Prime Minister, Nehru (Galbraith served as India's ambassador, and was regarded highly by the Indians). No - doing that kind of a homework to understand a society, so as to adopt an intelligent foreign policy was obviously too much work. And not much profit for the MIC.
The reason I mention the Pakistani military as a crucial factor is because I think in a way, some of this mess is completely inevitable. Support for the Pak. military has been a major, and direct factor in undermining democracy in Pakistan over the decades. It has also allowed the Pak. military/intelligence establishment to continue to nurture their ambition for a regional 'Great Game'. To them, supporting some of the militant groups as proxies to fight in Kashmir or Afghanistan is a perfectly legitimate, not to mention, low-cost, low-risk option. That is why I insist that some of this mess is inevitable - whether the Americans are there or not, that region will be unstable until democracy takes hold more firmly.
All through the Cold War, and later during the Soviet invasion and occupation of Afghanistan, whatever the US did in that region was only power politics and has nothing to do with democracy. And democracy has to come from within a society - there is no way it can be imposed from outside - unless a majority of the people ask for such help. If anyone really wants to help a people that would like outside help, there is Burma, for example.
It's not enough to simply get out of Afghanistan. It would be necessary to clean up the western act by rolling back the empire. It's western imperialism that allows such sores to pester. Before 9/11, the *ONLY* three countries that had recognized the Taliban government in Afghanistan and were doing "business" with them were Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and the UAE - all three of them friends and allies of the USA.
With "friends" like the Sauds and Pakistan who need enemies? Both have played the United States like a fiddle to advance their own schemes. And we danced to their tune of promised allegiance, while they were supporting terrorists and religious crackpots (including teachers) whose only two mantras are "God is Great," and "Death to America."
Trouble is we've fouled the nest so much in Pakistan that our pulling back would even more destabilize the entire region. And Pakistan has a unknown number of nuclear devices. How well protected is also unknown.
So we seem stuck in the mud. Damned if we continue, and damned if we let the Paks hang out to dry. Would the fragile government be able to resist a probable coup attempt when the military see their funding dry up? Doubtful. And a totally militarized nuclear power is very dangerous -- as the United States itself demonstrates.
Gary
“The tragedy of human life consists in our vain attempts to stretch the limits of things which can never become unlimited, to reach the infinite by absurdly adding to the rungs of the ladder of the finite.”
-- Rabindranath Tagore
I wouldn't go so far as to blame the Saudis and the Pakistani military for "playing the US like a fiddle". If they are able to play games, it's because they have had occasion to see what the real priorities of the USA are, and that there's a big difference between the words (democracy, freedom, yada yada...) and reality.
In the case of the Saudis, they know everyone needs their oil - so if they kick out the USA, Britain would be happy to fill the "vacuum". But they need the West, too. They know that their own legitimacy to govern their country is somewhat tenuous - carefully maintained by sharing just enough of the oil wealth with their population to avoid a revolution, projecting themselves as the custodians of their religious values, maintaining a well-equipped security apparatus, staying out of Israel's way (Palestinians be damned), and of course investing their wealth in the USA. So, it's a win-win - if you are only talking of the rulers.
The case of the Pakistani military is somewhat more complex. Although it derives its legitimacy by projecting itself as standing up to India, it looks like there are enough professionals - so a truly charismatic elected leader can put the military/intelligence establishment in its place - by limiting it to national defense, and not the shadow government that it has been. This has been achieved to some extent in Bangladesh (formerly East Pakistan) - which too has had its share of coups, but seems to be holding on under civilian leadership. But for this to happen, western imperial powers should stay the hell out of the region. They'll still try to sell their weapons. But if it's a purely business deal, it will have less impact on their internal democracy, than, say, some fuzzy 'aid' with all kinds of strings atached.
"Beware secret air wars that promise success and yet wreak havoc in lands that are not even enemy nations."
I am not your enemy but if you bomb my country and my country has not displayed any aggression toward your country, then you have made me your enemy. Too bad the politicians and the military are blind to such logic.
War is big business and big business owns America.
About forty years ago, we the sheeple suddenly decided that "History is bunk." Any time someone pointed out historical parallels, somebody would interrupt with, "Is it relevant?"
Unfortunately, Santyana was right, "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it." America throws out anything that happened before and history starts with, not yesterday, but today.
So, we do the same things that the Romans did, the British Raj did, the Nazis did, etc. To us, we think we are inventing the wheel and need no lessons from the past, not realizing we are about to be run over by a sixteen wheeler built long ago.
We can, or we could, learn from history and the past, if we would just study, analyze and learn from both the mistakes and the successes of those who came before us.
Never mind history...this is a moral and ethical question. Should we, the richest most powerful nation on earth, unleash terrible violence on any other nation?
We are squandering the wealth of our nation killing 'others' instead of taking care of our own people and protecting our environment. This behavior is morally wrong and STUPID. Yes, some members of the military industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about will make great profits---while we, the working people suffer.
We must change our govenment and attempt to get real democracy in our nation. Don't vote for those in power now. You see what they are doing and you see who is getting richer. The working people suffer the effects of our government rewarding the greedy.
As always, history repeats for those who don't read it.
In this alarmist assessment the fears are overblown. As long as the US keeps the bribes flowing to Zardari (Mr. 20%) and party as well as disemburse greencards to the well connected Pakistanis there is nothing to worry about.