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Published on Sunday, November 29, 2009 by New America Media
The Poorest Immigrants Subsidize Healthcare for Everyone Else
Would it be acceptable if we were to make medical care out of reach for any segment of our nation’s population? For the 15.5 million Asian Americans, Native Hawaiians, and Pacific Islanders? Or for the 44.3 million Latinos? Let’s hope not. But, as it stands, our growing acceptance is paving the road for health reform proposals that categorically exclude our nation’s immigrant population. We forget that when people like Lou Dobbs or Rep. Joe Wilson are enraged about “immigrants” they are talking largely about communities of color. Americans know it is wrong to discriminate based on immutable characteristics such as sex or race—but convincing them to protect the act of being an immigrant remains a challenge that cuts across social justice issues such as health reform.
The days are nearing when we may see the passage of major health reform legislation. We know that there are significant differences between the House and Senate bills on how immigrants are treated -- for example, in the House bill, undocumented immigrants are able to purchase health insurance with their own money in the exchange while they will be excluded from doing so in the Senate. There are also common problems with both bills: the continued ban on federal funding for legal immigrants in Medicaid who have had their status for less than five years.
Currently, legal immigrants, who work and pay taxes that contribute to our health care system will continue to be ineligible to receive federally-funded Medicaid services for five years. In this case, we are not talking about those who make at least 133 percent of federal poverty level and could access affordability credits like everyone else for purchasing insurance in the exchange. We are talking about immigrants with the lowest incomes. It is unreasonable and saddening that under the current health reform proposals, the people who really need it will not get it.
This August we saw indignant crowds who largely had health insurance opposing the ability for more Americans to be insured. The indignation should also be coming from immigrant communities. And it is rising now. In the last two weeks, more than 6,000 people from Washington State to Washington, D.C. signed petitions demanding that immigrants be treated fairly by repealing the five year waiting period and enabling undocumented immigrants to purchase insurance.
On Monday, November 23, hundreds of people in California and Washington, D.C. stood up for immigrants in health reform in two distinct actions to highlight the best and the worst that there is in the national debate concerning how we as Americans treat immigrants. The rally and vigil outside of Speaker Pelosi’s office, and the confrontation with Rep. Joe Wilson’s staff are actions that drew not only longtime health advocates, but also people who realized that this complicated health care issue is intimately about them and could result in the exclusion of their friends, families, and colleagues.
Communities across America are waking up to this realization and Congress needs to take notice. In San Francisco, a group of Chinese American tenants gathered over 1,000 signatures in just two days, for example. A strong and diverse coalition of local and national community organizations from health advocates to immigrant rights organizations to Asian American and Pacific Islander community groups came together, because the call for equity in health reform needs to be louder.
The days are nearing when we may see the passage of major health reform legislation. We know that there are significant differences between the House and Senate bills on how immigrants are treated -- for example, in the House bill, undocumented immigrants are able to purchase health insurance with their own money in the exchange while they will be excluded from doing so in the Senate. There are also common problems with both bills: the continued ban on federal funding for legal immigrants in Medicaid who have had their status for less than five years.
Currently, legal immigrants, who work and pay taxes that contribute to our health care system will continue to be ineligible to receive federally-funded Medicaid services for five years. In this case, we are not talking about those who make at least 133 percent of federal poverty level and could access affordability credits like everyone else for purchasing insurance in the exchange. We are talking about immigrants with the lowest incomes. It is unreasonable and saddening that under the current health reform proposals, the people who really need it will not get it.
This August we saw indignant crowds who largely had health insurance opposing the ability for more Americans to be insured. The indignation should also be coming from immigrant communities. And it is rising now. In the last two weeks, more than 6,000 people from Washington State to Washington, D.C. signed petitions demanding that immigrants be treated fairly by repealing the five year waiting period and enabling undocumented immigrants to purchase insurance.
On Monday, November 23, hundreds of people in California and Washington, D.C. stood up for immigrants in health reform in two distinct actions to highlight the best and the worst that there is in the national debate concerning how we as Americans treat immigrants. The rally and vigil outside of Speaker Pelosi’s office, and the confrontation with Rep. Joe Wilson’s staff are actions that drew not only longtime health advocates, but also people who realized that this complicated health care issue is intimately about them and could result in the exclusion of their friends, families, and colleagues.
Communities across America are waking up to this realization and Congress needs to take notice. In San Francisco, a group of Chinese American tenants gathered over 1,000 signatures in just two days, for example. A strong and diverse coalition of local and national community organizations from health advocates to immigrant rights organizations to Asian American and Pacific Islander community groups came together, because the call for equity in health reform needs to be louder.
Copyright © Pacific News Service
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41 Comments so far
Show AllOnly citizens will or should be eligible for any government provided health care in America. An illegal alien is neither an American nor an immigrant.
Being here legally does not make you an immigrant.
Untill you become a citizen you are not a citizen of our country, as hard as that is to understand for some people.
You don't recieve benefits simply because you want to become a citizen.
Remember we take all levels of immigrants rather that screen out anyone without skills and education as Canada and Australia do. They cherry pick their immigrants.
The kind of thinking in this article could very well lead to real changes in our immigration system. Restricted numbers, skills only system like Canada, even a shut down of immigration for a while......Anericans won't take another Amnesty nor are they buying the hate speech from the ethnic organizations.
Henry
You need to actually read the article before making sweeping commentaries.
"You don't recieve benefits simply because you want to become a citizen."
Her main point is that LEGAL immigrants have to wait 5 years AFTER achieving legal status before receiving Medicaid.
That's absurd, they shouldn't have to wait at all. On another note, the way the new health care bill is shaping up, maybe they'll be better off (lol).
first off,
we/they are not aliens, we are immigrants.
second, the UK permits undocumented immigrants to receive health care.
call me selfish, i want to give immigrants health care because i don't want them getting me sick.
undocumented immigrants should receive free health care just like the citizens.
You are a true human . A true American . If there were only more of you .
"undocumented immigrants should receive free health care just like the citizens."
I agree with everything you say, regarding legal immigrants, but how can we justify a two-tier system, meaning one set of rules applying to those who obey immigration law, and another set of rules that apply to a special class of immigrants who are allowed to break the law? Moreover, if we agree to this, are we not giving those businesses who exploit cheap labor for only THEIR benefit a free pass?
However, you do make a good point about treating everyone to halt the spread of disease. I'd love to see the system go after the employer when an illegal worker goes for medical help, and make THEM pay the bill as well as a hefty fine. I know, I know, this would discourage undocumented workers from seeking medical care. Sigh.
Many people who are pro-illegal immigration think it's just fine and dandy until or unless they personally have to pay the bills for their support and care. At a time when so many are out of work and municipalities are in trouble, where are the funds supposed to come from to support the added burden? What if the government were to create a new tax, an immigrant tax, and deduct it from every paycheck, like they presently do with medicaid?
You see, nothing can be given that is not paid for, it is a universal law. The question always is: "who should pay, and how much?" Part of the reason things are in such a mess is that big corps (and other businesses) have been reaping huge profits without properly 'paying,' or paying and inequitable amount for what they actually receive. This is what exploitation is. The cheap goods we buy at Walmart, for example, will prove to be much more expensive in the long run.
Chessgames,
I don't know anybody who is pro-illegal immigration per se (other than most big and small businesses - unofficially, of course). However, many people, including myself, are against scapegoating illegal immigrants as the ones responsible for the immigration mess in this country.
If it wasn't for various policies of the US government, including "free trade", lack of immigration law enforcement (that should penalize employers, rather than immigrants), many of those "illegal immigrants" wouldn't be here.
Right, Bea, they are only doing what they feel they need to do to survive. And yes there is an elite oligarchy that is pro-illegal immigration (translated: cheap labor). Of course, if asked, those benefiting from this would say they weren't (pro-illegal immigration)
I would also add that any American who gets sick or has an accident in those countries of Western Europe (and, for that matter, the Middle East) which have national health services will be treated free. The reason is that it's cheaper to simply treat visiting non-citizens than to set up and pay for the massive bureaucracy to sift through every sick or injured person's status, and to require that every eligible person living in the country carry some official proof of eligibility in order to be treated.
I know it annoys Henry8, but sometimes doing the decent thing is actually much more efficient and much less costly to the public purse than doing the curmudgeonly thing. It's largely the latter position that makes our healthcare system so expensive.
I was a permanent resident in Japan for nearly 20 years. Not a citizen. I worked and paid taxes there. Full medical health insurance was available to me. Same as for Japanese citizens.
I became a permanent resident of Australia earlier this year. Not a citizen. I work here and pay taxes. Full medical health insurance is available to me. Same as for Australian citizens.
The same should be available to all people who are living and working legally in the US. Citizenship shouldn't be an issue.
I think you might have omitted a few things. Let me guess, you didn't do landscaping or custodial work, you obtained insurance if and when you drove an automobile and you sure as hell weren't working for low wages. You sound like either a degreed professional or an expert in some field.
Also, Japan is a homogeneous society, meaning, nearly everyone is of Japanese descent. Their immigration laws are complex and strictly enforced.
As you might also find with AU, their laws are complex and strictly enforced, being an island nation helps. The Aussies are only ~23million, mostly anglo, and families are small. I've spent considerable time in AU and know their customs. Like I've mentioned in another post you just about have to be a professional to get AU citizenship. Also, you must speak, read and write English fluently to get AU citizenship. Unlike the pandering, spineless US gov't they don't provide signage in any other language than English, at least when I was last there. I also don't remember any minorities who were hell-bent on breeding their way to political power.
No Japanese or Aussie would stand to have their nation turned into a country resembling Mexico. Why should we?
You make some good points, annek. However, for the reasons I stated above, I think legal aliens should be eligible for benefits. They had to pay with a lot more time, hassle and money than many people realize. I feel that Australia is correct with its policy.
On this one, I'll have to disagree with you, Henry. If an immigrant is here as a legal alien, he or she is playing by the rules, paying medicare and medicaid taxes, as well as presumably working toward his or her citizenship. He or she has already been fingerprinted, photographed, paid a hefty fee, given a physical, filled out difficult forms, and been interviewed by the INS to make sure everything is in order before given a green card. Thus, in my view, they should be eligible for public assistance.
On the other hand, while interviewing with Laura Flanders on Grit TV, Howard Dean said he did not think undocumented workers or illegal immigrants should be included. His reason was--and I quote--it would only serve as a magnet for more [illegal] immigration.
Many who post here would argue here that the whole system needs to be reformed regarding immigration, and as the spouse of a legal immigrant, I would wholeheartedly agree.
But let's reward those who play and have played by the rules. In my view a carrot is generally better than a stick.
Let's cut to the chase. You wanna help these people out? Then join the fight for single payer. Any questions?
Disease vectors know no boundaries, people. So if an illegal immigrant presents with, say, smallpox, ebola, or the plague, henry8 and his ilk would still restrict his or her access to health care? Or maybe they could then join the ranks of multitudes in the ER, incedentally driving up the price of care. For the price af a few bucks, we should put everyone at risk? That does not sound smart or responsible, let alone kind or compassionate.
And don't even get me started on the whole if-you-ain't-Native-American-you-IS-an-illegal argument.
Why not? It's the only true answer to the anti-immigrant crowd. If you are not a Native American either you or or whoever in your family first came here are not only an illegal immigrant you are also an a member of an occupying force. The only legitimate citizens are the ones who got pushed into reservations by the invaders.
Some how we we elected a group of the meanest people on earth and have allowed them access to every form of media we have so they can call on their brethren to increase and multiply . Yet these same people will hide behind a bible or our flag and do all kinds of pontificating about patriotism while spouting hatred . They have brought forth their merchant of meanest (Rush) to give them a media to spew their venom in to the ears of millions and allow followers to participate . They must have an enemy and people of color have long been and will always be the enemy and they will use lies and innuendos to effect the thinking of the millions of gullible people. What they do should be illegal but they are allowed by the powers that be to continue their parade of meanest . Hopefully some of us will realize their charades are designed to take our eyes off of their real activities . Thank you for this informative article . I hope many will read it .
The powers that be love to see us squabble among ourselves, lest we turn our attention them and learn about what's really going on. While we stay in the kitchen arguing, they send someone in to steal all our food. This is a metaphor, but I think you see what I'm getting at. While those at the top are presently (I say presently because their ill-begotten gains cannot be maintained in the long run) profiting from the status quo, the multitudes everywhere are sinking. Rather than address the destructiveness of NAFTA and GATT (both here and elsewhere), they keep us squabbling about illegal immigration. Ingenious when you think about it.
I have a feeling if the U.S. did have universal single-payer, you'd have a lot of people flooding the country just to get free treatment. That wouldn't give Mexico any incentive to embrace socialism either, unless of course they elect someone left-wing next time without any hanky panky.
Thom Hartmann said this in a CD article from March of '06...
"Shouldn't we be compassionate? Of course.
But there is nothing compassionate about driving down the wages of any nation's middle class. It's the most cynical, self-serving, greedy, and sociopathic behavior you'll see from our 'conservatives.'
There is nothing compassionate about being the national enabler of a dysfunctional oligarchy like Mexico. An illegal workforce in the US sending an estimated $17 billion to Mexico every year - second only in national income to that country's oil revenues - supports an antidemocratic, anti-worker, hyperconservative administration there that gleefully ships out of that nation the "troublesome" Mexican citizens - those lowest on the economic food-chain and thus most likely to present 'labor unrest' - to the USA. Mexico (and other 'sending nations') need not deal with their own social and economic problems so long as we're willing to solve them for them - at the expense of our middle class. Democracy in Central and South America be damned - there are profits to be made for Wal-Mart!
Similarly, there is nothing compassionate about handing higher profits (through a larger and thus cheaper work force) to the CEOs of America's largest corporations and our now-experiencing-record-profits construction and agriculture industries.
What about caring for people in need? Isn't that the universal religious/ethical value? Of course.
A few years ago, when my family and I were visiting Europe, one of our children fell sick. A doctor came to the home of the people we were staying with, visited our child at 11 pm on a weeknight, left behind a course of antibiotics, and charged nothing. It was paid for by that nation's universal health care system. We should offer the same to any human being in need of medical care - a universal human right - in the United States.
But if I'd applied to that nation I was visiting for a monthly unemployment or retirement check, I would have been laughed out of the local government office. And if I'd been caught working there, I would have been deported within a week. Caring for people in crisis/need is very different from giving a job or a monthly welfare check to non-citizens. No nation - even those in Central and South America - will do that. And neither should the United States."
As long as they pay taxes though...who are we to say that people can't come to America?
Should there be a path to citizenship? I've read that it's harder to become a Mexican citizen than it is to become an American citizen. Should we even bother with all that, just letting people come and go when they want?
the great 3:02 -------- I believe some things have changed with the collapse, recently I believe a report said that the flow of money has reversed because of the lack of construction in the USA( if not totally reversed alot less going to Mexico and alot more Mexican families supporting unemployed relatives in the USA.
Depicting Mexican immigrants as riffraff is highly objectionable. 80% of the Mexican immigrants I know are more efficient and pleasanter to work with than USA non Mexican citizens.
And Nafta impovished the Mexican small farmer with subsidized USA corn imports. So many of the immigrants are these USA impoverished farmers.
Also the small farmers in the USA are going bankrupt or selling out to subdivisions in order to survive.
"Mexican immigrants I know are more efficient and pleasanter to work with than USA non Mexican citizens."
Yes, yes, I know, American workers are lazy, unpleasant, and/or not qualified to do the jobs that are available so we must, of course, import more immigrants to fill these jobs. Spoken like a true oligarch.
"And NAFTA impoverished the Mexican small farmer with subsidized USA corn imports."
NAFTA has impoverished just about everyone but the elite, and mega-buck stockholders. It has not only been a race to the bottom for Mexico, but for many of us here as well.
Let's change and reform the trade agreements, then, not open the borders, which will only increase the exploitation by the profiteers.
But there is nothing compassionate about driving down the wages of any nation's middle class. It's the most cynical, self-serving, greedy, and sociopathic behavior you'll see from our 'conservatives.
Yes, it is highly cynical and corrupt, and even a betrayal to everyone involved. Though many here seem to avoid addressing these issues.
Here's what Ralph Nader says concerning the issue of immigration:
Q. What is your stance on numeric caps for legal immigration and/or quotas for specific countries for immigration, and whether there should be amnesties for illegal immigrants?
A. The first stage for our immigration policy is stop supporting oligarchs, dictatorships, authoritarian regimes that drive people to leave their native lands out of economic desperation or political repression. Lots of people from Mexico and Central America would now be in those countries, not in this country, if they had a decent chance in a democratic society to have an adequate standard of living. We cannot have open borders. That’s a totally absurd proposition. It would depress wages here enormously, and tens of millions of people from all levels, including scientists and workers, would be pouring into this country. One way is to provide work permits for people who come in and do work for short periods of time that Americans don’t want to do instead of criminalizing the border.
Great post, you raise a lot of important questions.
"The Poorest Immigrants Subsidize Healthcare for Everyone Else"
A subsidy is a payment of some kind. So I was looking for the author to somehow support the headline.
"legal immigrants, who work and pay taxes that contribute to our health care system "
*How much* in taxes paid is the question.
"We are talking about immigrants with the lowest incomes."
Is the author aware that the "lowest incomes" pay *zero* federal income taxes? So how do they subsidize anything when they don't pay anything? The answer is they don't.
I'm certain the author knows the lowest incomes pay zero federal income taxes.
But like the majority of ALL wage earners, they pay the same rate in Social Security taxes as anyone else that is subject to them, the ceiling being $106,800 for this coming tax season. I know some people who only pay that tax for about the first half of the year. A friend of my brother-in-law is in the NFL and only paid it for his first game check. For the first time in her life, my wife stopped having Social Security taxes deducted from her paycheck with 3 paychecks to go. Her final paychecks of this calendar year will be about $280 larger as a result.
"I'm certain the author knows the lowest incomes pay zero federal income taxes. "
I disagree. The idea that low income immigrants *subsidize* healthcare costs is bugus, yet that was the case he was trying to make. Social Security taxes has nothing to do with that point.
Another god-d&mn3d pro-immigration article. Except I'm seeing more of a gag reflex to CD's "ram it down your throat" tactics.
Astute observation jakenewton, I've been seeing this scam going on for my entire life and wonder what these pro-immigration types are even thinking.
No citizenship unless you bring a degreed profession to the U.S. -period. We're full, I'm sorry, it's not the late 19th or early 20th century. Despite what others here say their work quality and ethic is second rate.
Actually, the lowest paid undocumented laborers (Mexican farm/ranch workers, dishwashers, landscaper laborers, for example) do have income taxes stopped every week, like everyone else. But like Americans they are unable to file a W-2 and get a tax refund at the end of the year, partly because they have no valid SS# and partly because they are afraid of being picked up and shipped home if they give their names and addresses. So they don't file for a refund.
Then there are the employers who mysteriously find ICE visiting their property and rounding up their workers on the morning of payday (funny how often that happens) so they don't have to pay their workers.
The solution is as simple as the Immigration Reform Act of 1986: fine the employers. It worked wonderfully for about 6 months--until the word got back across the border that the employers weren't, in fact, being fined and were, instead, desperate for labor. And so the Act was abandoned. You see, the problem is not those coming here in search of work; it's the ranchers, farmers, restaurateurs, etc., who don't want to pay Americans to do what Mexicans will do cheaper because Mexicans don't have to support a family and household and can live 6 to a one room roach-infested apartment or a bunkhouse in conditions Americans, quite rightly, aren't expected to have to endure.
So let's stop blaming the victims and blame those who have created this mess: greedy business owners and greedy Americans who want vast amounts of food and want it at rock bottom prices.
"Actually, the lowest paid undocumented laborers (Mexican farm/ranch workers, dishwashers, landscaper laborers, for example) do have income taxes stopped every week, like everyone else. "
Can you please explain the exact mechanism of how the employer removes taxes that end up as reciepts for the US treasury where there is no social security number against which to do that and given that doing so would subject the employer to legal scrutiny? And after doing that, can you estimate the total number of those tax receipts so that we can figure out how they "subsidize" health care?
"So let's stop blaming the victims"
One thing we can't blame the "victim" for: Subsidizing health care for the rest of us.
The workers give phony SS numbers. Sometimes they actually belong to someone else or to some dead person or a former migrant who has now returned home. The record keeping in the majority of government departments is chaotic with computers being inaccessible to other computers and also inaccesible from one government department to another (remember the scandal when this came out after 9/11?), plus the IRS is there to collect taxes, not persecute migrant laborers. That's the function of ICE who are so officious that they routinely snatch, jail and deport US citizens whose skin color is a bit darker than usual.
"The workers give phony SS numbers."
Please explain how it is possible for the IRS to actually collect taxes on a phony SSN. Demonstrate exactly how prevelant the practice is, and how much revenue is collected this way.
"Sometimes they actually belong to someone else or to some dead person or a former migrant"
Do you think the hiring firms actually take no precautions against such fraud given the fact they can be ruined if caught? They are actually required to file an I9 form for each worker and to keep meticulous records of the forms of ID produced, including photo ID. Did you know that or is this the first you heard of an I9 form?
"The record keeping in the majority of government departments is chaotic"
Do you actually have specific evidence of this as it pertains to the IRS, or are you really just making up things?
"That's the function of ICE who are so officious that they routinely snatch, jail and deport US citizens whose skin color is a bit darker than usual."
Please give me your best example of a specific US citizen who has ever been deported as you state.
The fact is that most ileagal aliens work under the table. You know that. You can't work "sort of" above board.
And don't just make up explanations for things, you can't do that with me.
And you forgot to give me your estimate of the total tax revenue paid by ileagals or poor immigrants.
Maybe see to it that there's a fair living wage? Now there's a thought!
"The Poorest Immigrants Subsidize Healthcare for Everyone Else"
Shouldn't the richest 1% be doing that?
Glenn Ford-I know they aren't all or mostly riff-raffs. I don't think that's what Thom Hartmann was saying either. He was just suggesting that most of them are discontented, and Mexico's oligarchy doesn't want its discontented citizens staying and possibly shaking the snowglobe so to speak. Why else would anyone take such a leap?
"80% of the Mexican immigrants are more efficient and pleasanter to work with than USA citizens."
Well a stereotype's a stereotype. Ya can't have it both ways. lol.
I think its objectionable that under the current system, you have people coming here to do work "no one else wants to do." That creates another underclass.
I agree about NAFTA. It has to be repealed.
I blame the elites for all this. Capitalism and the poverty it creates is what in turn created the immigration dilemma.
Oh let everyone in. lol. I certainly agree that the best solutions to this don't involve walls, fences, mass deportations, etc.
I used to be for criminalizing the hiring of undocumented worker, but I've come to realize that it would only be legalizing a form of discrimination.
We do need to have socialist reform in the States. It's just that when it comes to pass, there are gonna be a lot of people from all over (not just Mexico) wanting to come here, even moreso that there already are.
Can we accomodate these new Americans? Can we handle the surge? How many people can fit in the States?
"Shouldn't the richest 1% be doing that?"
They pay the most as a percentage on their income, regarding income taxes.
OTOH, you can see that the poorest pay *nothing*, right?
Good points.
The author should also consider the fact that everyone who comes to the emergency room gets treated.
You don't get everything taken care of this way, but you can get a lot of medical treatment in the ER setting.
Just another way the subsidy argument falls apart.
Any corporation has one legal obligation--ensure and enhance shareholder value. To fail to do that, even upon the backs of poor immigrants, crippled auto workers, infirm old folks, would be an abrogation of that capitalist obligation, and illegal.
godistwaddle writes:
"Any corporation has one legal obligation--ensure and enhance shareholder value. To fail to do that, even upon the backs of poor immigrants, crippled auto workers, infirm old folks, would be an abrogation of that capitalist obligation, and illegal."
When are people on CD going to exorcise this urban myth? Corporations are created by charter, not by some god writing in stone. Also, define "shareholder value." Do I want a return on my investment immediately at the expense of five years out or do I want the corporation to reinvest now for a larger return later, etc.
Also, think about the question, how does a CEO who pays himself $50 million a year even in a year when the company lost money "ensure and enhance shareholder value"?
This proposition about the legal obligation to enhance shareholder value keeps popping up on CD threads and it is twaddle. Cease and desist!
-30-
I think he was being sardonic.
The overpaid CEO is one of the "best and the brightest," and to lose him/her might endanger future shareholder value. I want my stocks to do well NOW, not ten years down the road. I might be dead. And I can just see state charters demanding that corporations give rights to, say, Chinese laborers. I pity idealists as i would village idiots. You don't despise them; they're nice enough; but they just don't know how the world works.
You don't despise them; they're nice enough; but they just don't know how the world works.
I'm not sure you know how the world works either, twaddie. Everything that has been geared to short-term profit is beginning to collapse, meaning that it's unsustainable. The rise in the stock market (and if you know how to play it, you should be making a mint before the present bubble bursts). So what's your beef, if you think that a worker's value is being a pawn for shareholder profit?
Oh, and careful, don't be so condescending with regard to the 'poor worker.' He or she might not be as ignorant as you seem to believe.
"Any corporation has one legal obligation--ensure and enhance shareholder value. To fail to do that, even upon the backs of poor immigrants, crippled auto workers, infirm old folks, would be an abrogation of that capitalist obligation, and illegal."
And no legal obligation to the worker? Oh my, then we need to change that!
"And I can just see state charters demanding that corporations give rights to, say, Chinese laborers."
Wow, you're all heart, and no doubt an 'evangelical atheist' (a phrase coined by Thom Hartman) to boot. Sadly, you and your ilk might get your way, though you will not be able to escape the negative consequences of the society you create.
...deleted by comment author...somewhat off-topic.
This Asian home blood is telling it like it is!
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