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Can America Prevail on Afghanistan/Pakistan Front? No!
It's Obama's war now, and a Vietnam-like quagmire is dead ahead.
Shades of Vietnam. Do we ever learn?
It brought back memories of the late Gen. William C. Westmoreland, the U.S. commander in Southeast Asia, who kept escalating the troop numbers after the 1968 Tet offensive in Vietnam. His strategy produced a debacle for us.
Fast forward to Afghanistan, 2009.
Now seven years into the war there, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the new U.S. commander in Afghanistan, is in the middle of a 60-day assessment of the war, due next month. But a Washington Post article says he has been giving Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates weekly updates about the need to bolster the size of the Afghan army and police force and the likely deployment of thousands more U.S. trainers and advisers.
The present Pentagon plan calls for about 68,000 U.S. troops to be in Afghanistan by late this year.
Afghanistan, which once harbored Osama bin Laden's Al-Qaida training camps, has been on Obama's agenda since his presidential campaign. Now it's his war -- big time -- even as it takes on the appearance of another quagmire for U.S. forces in their effort to quell the Taliban and Al-Qaida fighters.
Gates is expected to go along with whatever McChrystal concludes is necessary. So is Obama, a neophyte who has taken on the mission defined by the Bush administration, apparently without hesitation.
Maybe the president should have asked the Russians on his recent journey to Moscow how it was that a superpower like the Soviet Union could have been forced to retreat from Afghanistan in the 1980s, despite its modern military might.
Granted the United States was supporting the Afghans with arms and training but the war proved to be too much for the Soviet forces.
The late Defense Secretary Robert McNamara in the Kennedy and Johnson eras delivered public mea culpas in the aftermath of the Vietnam War. I don't expect the same kind of acknowledgement from the neoconservatives who got us into Iraq. That would be the day.
Nor will former President George W. Bush or Vice President Dick Cheney or their hawkish team of architects show any remorse for their terrible mistake in attacking Iraq.
The buck now stops with Obama, who is making a big deal about how he doesn't want to look back at past mistakes.
He could end up repeating those mistakes.
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46 Comments so far
Show AllThe buck now stops with Obama, who is making a big deal about how he doesn't want to look back at past mistakes.
He could end up repeating those mistakes.
Not could . . . but will end up repeating those mistakes. The man's a fool who can't see any further than a quarter inch in front of his nose. May he occupy the same Hell as McNamara, Johnson and Nixon. That's Obama's "special fate".
Agreed! He has already made mistakes and is in up to his eyebrows.
The man is either stupid or compromised ethically. We know he is not stupid, so he must be compromised.
Anyone who listened knew he was a right-wing tool for aggressive, predatory capitalism. Problem with the French Revolution is it didn't go nearly far enough. Far enough is the only thing saves the rest of us.
Yeah, Obama and most of the D party, wants to "look forward", focus on the "way forward" (sounds like Tony Blair here), not focus on the past (translation: forget our history, ignore the context, make a mockery of the rule of law, and continue to expand imperialist business as usual).
At least with Bush Jr., he did not beat around the Bush and it was all too easy to see through the miasma. The Obama regime could easily prove more dangerous as many "liberals" and many in the so-called Left, are still in love with his brand and image. They are caught in a vicious discourse trap and cognitive constraints of the Duopoly.
As with most empires, ours is slowly cannibalizing itself and crumbling from within. I have seen no real change whatsoever other than more sophisticated rhetoric and more attractive window-dressing.
Obama was put into office by Goldman Sachs and the people who will profit from the pipelines and oil and gas available on those pipelines from Asia. The big boogeyman now is that China will get its hands on OUR oil and gas!
We always seem to have somebody with whom we need to war.
Jeevee
"We always seem to have somebody with whom we need to war."
All of your above comments are "too true"!
Obama was put into office by Goldman Sachs and the people who will profit from the pipelines and oil and gas available on those pipelines from Asia. The big boogeyman now is that China will get its hands on OUR oil and gas!
We always seem to have somebody with whom we need to war.
To Kitty Lady...This just in on the Goldman Sachs Obama connection from the Financial Times today.
"An advocacy group on Wednesday launched a campaign to derail the nomination of a Goldman Sachs executive to a high position in the US state department because of his past role in raising public funds for a Chinese company linked to Sudan.
Public Accountability Initiative, a not-for-profit organisation, said Robert Hormats, whom Barack Obama nominated this week as undersecretary of state for economic affairs, had made misleading comments about the 2000 listing for PetroChina, the Chinese energy group whose parent, CNPC, has been present in Sudan since 1996".
Looks like Goldman Sachs is running our Federal Reserve AND now wants in with the State Department. We need to stop this war is a racket business.
The big 0 is clearly doing the empire work of those who hired him. Representing one branch of the Dem/Repug single party of global empire, he is performing the tasks assigned to him, probably finding them quite consistent with his own views of the place of the US in the world. Certainly, no real detectable reluctance has been observed. The oligarchs of the ruling elites wanted a slicker and more articulate performer after 8 years of Bush, but also one who understands and supports the ideology of empire, exceptionalism and entitlement.
At this stage of empire, rulers become heedless of any lessons of history, with a total inability to "back down" from military ventures no matter how destructive and heinous. A testosterone poisoned patriarchy cannot even consider admitting error and reconsideration and changing directions as that is seen as weak, and totally unacceptable, indeed unthinkable. Thus do empires act as their own worst enemies, especially the financially bankrupt US. The sorrows of empire are bound to get ever more devastating at home and abroad.
Sioux Rose
COURT JESTER: Very well-stated and powerful analysis.
"Granted the United States was supporting the Afghan forces with arms and training but the war proved to be too much for the Soviet forces."
That's the illusory difference between the Soviet occupation and the American occupation of Afghanistan. The Reaganites take a lion's share of the credit for humiliating the Russian forces during the 1980's. No major power on the outside is covertly providing hi tech counter weaponry to the Taliban today however. Therefore, Uncle Sam can win where the Soviets lost.
Like I say, it's an illusory difference, but a fatally attractive one.
Bill from Saginaw
The Taliban are being financed by European and American drug users plus their support base in northern Pakistan. Modern weaponry is increasingly being delivered, in the form of human bombs (a derivative of the Iraqi human bomb which in turn is an offshoot of the Palestinian human bomb, although the original credit for the explosive vest goes to the Tamil Tigers, I believe.
The Improvised Explosive Device, another recent development, is of course going to see expanded use in Afghanistan. As a matter of fact, given enough time, the Taliban will probably develop significantly improved weaponry over time. It's fairly easy to design a laser-guided missile, and I believe it's a matter of time before home made devices with such capabilities are deployed by the Taliban in Afghanistan.
In conclusion, given the Western funding, the confused situation, and the US inability to develop a coherent working strategy, I believe the US occupation of Afghanistan will fail. Being fairly old, I suppose I'll miss the war movies we're sure to see emerge in 20 years, after the scars from the defeat are less visible.
I remember buying pounds of Afghani hash when the ussr was occuping Afghanistan in the 80s, but damned if I can find it now. Of course at the time all of us druggies argued that we owed our hash supply to those nice folks at the CIA... I suppose the ungrateful buggers are only exporting heroin these days, and only fools use that nasty stuff.
I bought about an oz. of hash in Kabul in '72 for pennies a gram - - strong, black, soft and sticky. Ah, the good old days. We smuggled it overland inside my wife only to have it and our entire VW microbus stolen in Venice Italy. I don't think the Afghanis use much opium products - - strictly export.
The Taliban are being financed by European and American drug users plus their support base in northern Pakistan. Modern weaponry is increasingly being delivered, in the form of human bombs (a derivative of the Iraqi human bomb which in turn is an offshoot of the Palestinian human bomb, although the original credit for the explosive vest goes to the Tamil Tigers, I believe.
The Improvised Explosive Device, another recent development, is of course going to see expanded use in Afghanistan. As a matter of fact, given enough time, the Taliban will probably develop significantly improved weaponry over time. It's fairly easy to design a laser-guided missile, and I believe it's a matter of time before home made devices with such capabilities are deployed by the Taliban in Afghanistan.
In conclusion, given the Western funding, the confused situation, and the US inability to develop a coherent working strategy, I believe the US occupation of Afghanistan will fail. Being fairly old, I suppose I'll miss the war movies we're sure to see emerge in 20 years, after the scars from the defeat are less visible.
The only difference between getting f--ked by Bush or f--ked by Obama is Obama tries to romance us. The results are the same. We're getting f--ked.
Actually, Obama does a bit of foreplay before he effs us.
"The prize lies in the gulf"....That one line is the reason we're a few hundred billion in the hole in Iraq for.
You don't need 60 days, Stanley. Drag your three-starred loser butt out of there.
And it's 1 - 2 - 3, what are we fighting for?...
Listen to this program and find out how long the CIA believes that Osama Bin Laden's actually bin DAID!!!
http://www.kpfa.org/archive/id/52610
I heard this; thanks for the link, KPFA is the best source of information on the airwaves, TV or radio. The first publicly funded radio station in the country.
Guns and Butter is a great program. I also recommend listening
The broader and more significant issue may be whether the NATO alliance can survive the attempt, regardless of its being defined as a success or a failure. If not, and many of NATO's recent departures from its original raison d'être are beginning to look quite shaky, the geopolitical implications could be enormous.
Especially if considered in conjunction with such manifestations as SCO-BRIC discussions regarding world reserve currency issues, we may all be in for some very unpleasant global instability in the not too distant future.
Like General Smedley Butler said: "War is a racket".
here it is :
USA just honored in a whitewashed way (regarding his basically antiwar stance) - the venerable WALTER CRONKITE....
and as SHE is getting up there in age - HELEN THOMAS speaks truth to power - and america .
Shrugs......
and when SHE is dead they will whitewash HER honor too.........
and the WARNATION goes on for more "victories"............
Wow. To think this entire fiasco could have been avoided if we'd just accepted the Taliban's offer to hand bin Ladin over to a neutral third-party nation where he could be given a trial. Does anyone even remember that? "We know he's guilty," said the chimp, although how he knew that still boggles my mind. I guess it was the immaculate passports found intact amidst the million pounds of WTC rubble that proved it.
Helen Thomas asks, will we ever learn? The answer to that is simple. No. The US can't learn from its mistakes because it isn't allowed to admit to itself that it makes them. "My country right or wrong" etc. This nation becomes more and more like an abusive father every day, threatening the world with an ass-kicking if they even note his abusive behavior. Sadly, so many USAmericans are abusive shitheads themselves that this behavior seems not only normal, but praiseworthy. And God forbid one should raise questions and connect dots about how the US operates, because then they must be a "conspiracy theorist."
What the US needs, by way of object lesson, is for the next up-and-coming superpower to hand us our collective asses. Alas, seeing as how we have the entire planet surrounded, I think the US's lesson in humility will have a drastic cost for every living human being.(Not that its unchallenged arrogance doesn't.)
I'm surprised that the phrase 'my country, right or wrong' still gets spouted. Indeed, I'm amazed that they consider the concept that the country could be wrong at all...
Who was that comedian who said it's like saying 'my mother, drunk or sober'.
But, yah. I agree with what you said...
It is really quite startling to me that these wars are going on. I suppose I am naive but this Iraq-Afghanistan-Pakistan war is just amazing. It's a sure loser for everyone. I guess that's not true as there are those who are profiting from it. I'm an American War in Vietnam draft resister and I must say that I am truly shocked that the American President, Congress and public are jumping into the bloody quagmire with both feet. Do these people really believe what they are saying: something about terrorism, democracy, etc. I think what makes some sense is that the people in charge of this operation are not like us - - we can't understand them - - they are ruthless and brutal, vicious - - human life and suffering means nothing to them. They may believe in some perverted fantasy, some delusion, I don't know - - it is all very strange to me. And the American public (include public in NATO countries as well) goes along. The Left/Progressives/Liberals are in on the game. Just had an exchange on CD concerning Stewart/Colbert support for our brave troops - - to me I'll never watch them again but for some young lady (thong girl) they are still funny - - just a big joke. What a world we live in. I gotta go on the road again - - SE Asia is very attractive and Vietnam is quite a nice place and they've forgotten what the US did to them.
You're right. Vietnam is quite a nice place to live now.
Hoa binh
Jeevee
Too many rich parasites are eating this country alive.
A list of (military)articles for you, helen:
4/3/03:
"Richard Perle's Corporate Adventures"
by Tim Shorrock
the nation
7/26/04:
"New Halliburton waste alleged"
Former company auditor: "its just a gravy train"
by Lisa Myers & the NBC Investigative Unit
10/29/04:
"Did Pentagon bend rules for Halliburton?"
Exclusive: Whistleblower alleges misconduct in awarding of contract
by Lisa Myers
2/17/05:
"U.S. Contractors in Iraq allege abuses"
Four men say they witnessed the brutality
by Lisa Myers & the NBC Invesitgative Unit
3/20/06:
"Iraqi diplomat gave U.S. prewar WMD details"
Saddam's foreign minister told CIA the truth, so why didn't
agency listen?
By Aram Roston, Lisa Myers & the NBC Investigative Unit
4/19/06:
"contractor admits bribery for jobs in Iraq"
truthout.org
10/31/06:
"Weldon case recalls Ike's warning: corrupting power of military-industrial complex"
1/5/07: "Contractor fraud unchecked in Iraq"
2/18/07:
"Soldiers face Neglect, Frustration At Army's Top Medical Facility"
by Dana Priest and Anne Hull
Washington Post Staff Writers
3/7/07:
"Critics cite ineptness at Walter Reed"
Outsourced maintenance may be a factor in substandard conditions, they say
by Lisa Myers and the NBC Investigative Unit
4/13/08:
"Iraq: State Of Corruption"
by CBS news
12/19/08:
"FBI let workers in Iraq claim liberal OT"
by Spencer S Hsu
washington post
there is so much more..
found quite a bit..and saved it also..for people who havent been paying attention.
It's frickin' hard to believe that like 41 years ago I have to chant, stop the war, stop the bombs, bring our boys home! Are we Sparta or 1984?
Where have all the soldiers gone, so long ago. When will they ever learn? When? Will they ever learn?
Old Ike Eisenhower warned us to be aware of the military-industrial complex. It is still there and Obama is being influenced by it.
Obama is in it. He is part of it. Some people assume that Obama has had bad influences but it appears to me that he is of it ..... he and his team of Zionists and rich guys.
Get this - - just saw the headline:
"WASHINGTON – U.S. military authorities in Afghanistan are assembling a potent intelligence-gathering operation to help defeat the Taliban insurgency, a senior Defense Department official said Thursday."
In case some of you youngsters missed the US War in Vietnam, this high tech stuff was also tried there - - like putting sensors, etc. across the DMZ to detect infiltration from the north. These Pentagon types need some new material.
By God, there's a memory in the house.
These flashbacks are coming thick and fast these days.
I was in Afghanistan for a few weeks in '72 (traveling through from India to Istanbul and beyond) and I can give several more reasons why US and NATO will surely ignominiously fail there. The Afghan man is warlike (loves to fight), proud, aggressive toward foreigners and macho. They will not be pushed around by some foolish cowards - - they would rather die than live under the boot of an alien, degenerate, hostile culture.
ekzile. Thanks for sharing that.
In an eerie way, those who fight with right are quite stong, empowered.
But those who predate get tripped up. Fluid defensive fighting is easier against an opponent coming at you.
I admire the Afghan man.
and what ADMIRAL MIKE MULLEN --chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff says today:
"WE DON'T GO INTO SOVEREIGN COUNTRIES".........yah right....
the USA just PLANTS over 700 military "footprints" in dozens of nations .......and Iraq INVITED the USA........and afghanistan isn't REALLY a sovereign nation COZ the Taliban don't LIKE foreigners FROM the USA.......
kinda like saying:
"we were just passing by vietnam in the 1960's on a world tour to sample different cultures that LOVE US".....
or hearing a Nazi say:
"we never killed anyone unless they asked us to"........
these people are BEYOND crazy and evil...it's simply beyond description.......
Very well stated Ms. Thomas.
When are we going to see this "change" America was promised?
Perhaps it is being sent parcel post or second-class?
I suppose shuffling the troops around gives the illusion of change? In this horrific charade of Middle East hegemony. As the Af-Pak meat grinder continues to churn, with no end in sight.
We've been hoodwinked, bamboozled haven't we? Such a pity!
The credulous sheople bought the sales pitch, hook, line and sinker.
I have to add to my comment below. The Taliban are not terrorists. This idea is totally insane. They want their land, their religion, their way of life. The notion that the Taliban is a threat to anyone outside their land is absurd. The implications of this is very frightening - - the nature of the Taliban is well known, so why are they portrayed as terrorists by US media and Obama - - it is a fantasy (lie) that has been sold to American public (and NATO as well) and bought. The Taliban are a threat to their women, free thinkers, nonconformists and outsiders - - they are not a threat to anyone else - - this is well know, not a secret and obvious
this naming of taliban - harsh as they are to their own people - as "terrorists" or "insurgents" is typical of Imperial projects into other lands:
if the natives RESISTS invaders and interlopers - they are called "insurgents" by the USA -- AS IF it is a GIVEN that the USA has ANY right to set foot in another country to make people there OBEY and BEHAVE the way the USA wants.
the USA also called Iraqis "insurgents" who wanted the USA OUT!
same thing with the Vietcong "insurgents" --
it is part of a self-appointed "right" to define other people IN THEIR OWN COUNTRIES whatever the USA wants to define them.
one would wonder -- how americans would react if some much higher and more powerful power -- say an alien race - TRAINED its lenses precisely on "that imperial nation down there - earth -- and we must show these americans how to behave" - invaded and occupied the USA -- and
called americans who resists "insurgents" in their own land.......
here's another "saying" by Admiran MULLEN _ of the USA joint chiefs of staff:
regarding torture photos commited by US armed forces (as if WAR itself isn't Torture ENOUGH) --
"WE ARE BETTER THAN WHAT THOSE PHOTOS SHOW".......
------
sorry admiral -- you're NOT better than those photos -- those photos ARE YOU and your wonderful USA WAR MACHINE. those photos are what emerge when all the "noble" nonsens of "warfare" is peeled away. ..behind all the pretty Uniforms and shiny stars and fancy technology and lots and lots of money and philosophizing........
THAT's YOU at the CORE of your wonderful US war machine.
--------
From Mike Mount
CNN Senior Pentagon Producer
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WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Images of detainee abuse at the hands of U.S. troops, which President Obama has barred from public view, so "infuriated" the nation's highest-ranking military officer he demanded leaders ensure continued training of troops to prevent abuse, according to a senior Pentagon official.
Adm. Mike Mullen said in a memo that mistreatment of detainees would have a lasting negative effect.
Adm. Mike Mullen said in a memo that mistreatment of detainees would have a lasting negative effect.
In a July 10 memo, Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, wrote the service chiefs and the U.S. combatant commanders around the world that mistreatment of detainees would have a continued and lasting negative effect on the image of U.S. forces.
"Despite our best efforts, a misguided and misled few have managed to tarnish that reputation and breach the very trust we have worked so hard to earn. I am appalled by even the suggestion that someone in an American uniform would behave in such a way," he wrote in the memo. CNN obtained the memo, which was classified as "sensitive."
In May, President Obama ordered that the photos not be publicly released after commanders said the release could put deployed U.S. troops into harm's way by elements seeking retribution.
"We are better than what I saw in those pictures. We must prove it," Mullen said.
The memo was carefully written not to use the word "abuse" referring to what the photos showed, according to a Pentagon official.
This is right on the mark, but the former senior British commander has said Afghanistan is a lost cause, and the West has to get out and just settle for cutting losses to a minimum. This commander was there, and the British have already been there twice. It's amazing that Gordon Brown, the British prime minister doesn't take the advice of his own top military expert instead of the jack asses who just want to keep the British lion in the fight. Well his party has virtually last the next general election. Go for "broke", Brown as you won't get another term at Number 10.
AD
The purpose of war is not to be won or lost. It is simply to be waged. The profiteers make money and justify their existence only when the war is raging. When it finally ends and the Oil companies rule through compliant proxies, the profiteers will have to fabricate new enemies to justify new wars. All war is waged by way of deception and all war is about money not politics. Smedly Butler was right on all counts.