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Published on Wednesday, July 8, 2009 by CommonDreams.org
Seeing Obama as Norwegians See Him
I just returned from a research trip to Norway where the people I
interviewed often brought up the topic of our new President. The
first was Kristin Clemet, the director of a conservative think tank.
"This spring on a delegation to Washington I was struck again," she
said, "by how different the political spectrum is in Norway from your
country. Here, Obama would be on the right wing."
I checked her view with others -- academics, politicians, activists all
over the Norwegian spectrum -- and all but one agreed. In Norwegian
terms, our President's positions are very conservative.
When Norway hit a major financial crisis in the early '90s (from a real estate bubble and speculating banks), the Norwegians decided against bail-outs. Three of the biggest banks were simply taken by the government, their senior management fired, their stockholders sent packing. The government nursed the seized banks back to health over time while the economy made a quick recovery. The other troubled banks were left to declare bankruptcy or find new capital. Norway's action sent a clear message to the banks: mismanagement and greed don't pay. The result is that today its own financial sector is clean and only needs to deal with the impact of other countries' disasters. Norway's strategy was very far from Obama's bank-friendly game plan.
When Norwegian oil was discovered, the country decided not to risk putting their new treasure in private ownership. Norwegians were therefore able to lead the world in environmental responsibility and to avoid boom/bust impact on their seacoast cities. Most important, Norway has been stashing the oil profits in a public, socially responsible "Pension Fund" that will support the Norwegians' famously high living standard for many generations to come.
Half a century ago Norway already had a universal health care system that is simplicity itself. There's a single payer (the government) and minimum red tape, something like Medicare but for everyone and better. The entire political spectrum supports this. By contrast, Obama says he backs the failed U.S. private insurance scheme and his team is wobbling on his own modest proposal to add a public option. So I would have to say to thoughtful Republicans: even if you don't like the Nordic blend of capitalism and socialism, with its virtual abolition of poverty, free university education, and enlightened environmentalism, you're only confusing the issue when you try to label the President with the "S"-word. You may think his policies are wrong, but in Norway even conservatives would say the Democrats and Obama don't go nearly far enough.
When Norway hit a major financial crisis in the early '90s (from a real estate bubble and speculating banks), the Norwegians decided against bail-outs. Three of the biggest banks were simply taken by the government, their senior management fired, their stockholders sent packing. The government nursed the seized banks back to health over time while the economy made a quick recovery. The other troubled banks were left to declare bankruptcy or find new capital. Norway's action sent a clear message to the banks: mismanagement and greed don't pay. The result is that today its own financial sector is clean and only needs to deal with the impact of other countries' disasters. Norway's strategy was very far from Obama's bank-friendly game plan.
When Norwegian oil was discovered, the country decided not to risk putting their new treasure in private ownership. Norwegians were therefore able to lead the world in environmental responsibility and to avoid boom/bust impact on their seacoast cities. Most important, Norway has been stashing the oil profits in a public, socially responsible "Pension Fund" that will support the Norwegians' famously high living standard for many generations to come.
Half a century ago Norway already had a universal health care system that is simplicity itself. There's a single payer (the government) and minimum red tape, something like Medicare but for everyone and better. The entire political spectrum supports this. By contrast, Obama says he backs the failed U.S. private insurance scheme and his team is wobbling on his own modest proposal to add a public option. So I would have to say to thoughtful Republicans: even if you don't like the Nordic blend of capitalism and socialism, with its virtual abolition of poverty, free university education, and enlightened environmentalism, you're only confusing the issue when you try to label the President with the "S"-word. You may think his policies are wrong, but in Norway even conservatives would say the Democrats and Obama don't go nearly far enough.
72 Comments so far
Show AllI hope to see more writers tackle an point noted in this article: "I was struck again... by how different the political spectrum is in Norway from your country. Here, Obama would be on the right wing."
Today's Progressives certainly have their hearts in the right place, but I think the problem is that they don't understand just how much power they actually have, if they'd only organize and try. I don't think they grasp how people are linked by social, economic and political issues, so punitive policies that impact those at the bottom will have a negative impact on nearly everyone else. When a powerless segment of the population is scapegoated and exploited, the trend inevitably moves on to the next economic segment. When we remain silent when people are denied their fundamental legal and human rights simply because they're poor, it puts these rights in jeopardy for everyone else.
Our progressive media doesn't always "get it" when it comes to how the mistreatment of any segment of the population ultimately effects everyone else. Or maybe they're just disinterested. For example, an issue that has largely been ignored is welfare "reform." We're generally ignorant about poverty here in the US. How many progressives know that some of these "reform" policies are actually in violation of international human rights standards, per the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights? Or that these policies were enacted, ironically, around the time that we were all celebrating the anniversary of the Declaration? How many care?
It puzzles me that we've ignored the impact of these policies on all of the working class. Workfare, in a nutshell, is a pool of mandatory labor that can be paid subminimum wages, that has virtually no workers' rights and protections, and that has increasingly been used as replacement labor. It's a Third World workforce that spares corporations the cost of moving jobs to foreign countries. Want to organize a union? Strike for better wages? Don't -- you can be replaced with workfare labor by morning, at a fraction of your wages. With each wave of layoffs, more people end up as workfare labor, themselves. Put all together, welfare reform has been a tool for suppressing wages and keeping workers "compliant." The money taken out of human needs funding has gone toward helping to cover the costs of "tax relief" for the rich/corporations since the Reagan years. We can see the results all around us today.
Those who learned about social/economic injustice the hard way have tried to prod the progressive community into action, but we're talking about a generation who have been inundated with the Reagan doctrine. We need a progressive media that can connect the dots, filling people in on those issues that are disregarded by the mainstream media.
I worked for six months on the Norwegian bulk carrier 'MS Jane Stove" in 1962. I must admit that they were some of the happiest times of my life. They had a highly developed sense of egalitarianism. No one used the term 'socialist' in those days. They had a great work ethic. All worked together and everyone was happy to do his or her job. (Yes, there were women crew, even then).
Had it not been for the Cuban missile crisis that October-November, I might have sought Norwegian citizenship. I did see ICBM's on the way to Cuba on Soviet Bloc ships at that time and experienced a fatal feeling of patriotism and joined the US Navy. It didn't take me very long to realize what a pile of horse shit American politics was and is.
I've been traveling and dwelling in Norway for varying length intervals of time since the mid sixties. I've watched the country's social order change and evolve over that period. I've learned too much about that society to go into here. It's has a curious mix of capitalism and socialism in comparison to other European nations. The Norwegians possess a strong inclination toward capitalism but their collective behavior also demonstrates a strong commitment to social responsibility which is translated into state managed socialist practices. With respect to all the nations in Europe, Norway is one of the more conservative ones.
Having lived in and traveled extensively in other parts of Europe, I can say with certainty that, what is considered centrist or left of center in matters cultural, political, economic, and social here in the US is or would be considered far to the right by the vast majority of the inhabitants of all the European nations. If Obama displayed behaviors that they would consider centrist of leftist, he would not be president of the US. It has to do with an enormous cultural difference between the US on the one hand and the Central and Western European nations on the other.
To highlight this, I'll mention that I was listening to David Garland on WNYC this evening and he spoke of the discovery somewhere in Germany of a flute that was almost completely in tact an has been estimated to be about 35 thousand years old. I believe that the man or woman on the street of any European country would find both the discovery to be quite interesting and also not even be inclined to question the validity of the instrument's dating, and this by a ratio of better than 10 to one. In the US I suspect that a similar sampling of opinions would have a significant minority of those told of this archaeological find questioning the validity of this dating, given that their belief systems conceive of the world to be only 6 thousand or so years old.
Norway has a system of government that reflects and is a microcosm of its own people, unlike the US.
From Wikipedia:
"Norway elects its legislature on a national level. The parliament, the Storting (or Stortinget by Norwegian grammar), has 169 members elected for a four year term (during which it may not be dissolved) by the proportional representation in multi-seat constituencies. The Storting is for legislative cases divided into the Lagting (1/4 of its members) and the Odelsting (3/4)."
"Norway has a multi-party system, with numerous parties in which no one party often has a chance of gaining power alone, and parties must work with each other to form coalition governments and/or minority cabinets."
Search wikipedia for "Elections_in_Norway".
They don't allow private money to influence elections either. Most modern democracies don't.
If we had such a system, in short order, US policies would come to reflect the will of the people. The Preamble of our second and current Constitution is on the progressive side of this issue. The rest of the Constitution is antiquated in many ways and needs amending. For example Norway has had over five national referendums on important issues. How many has the USA had? Zip! The Constitution doesn't allow for a national vote on any question or issue. Not even voting for our president.
We've got to connect the dots between a corporate totalitarian system and the flaws in the Constitution which allows such a system to prevent democracy. There is no better measure of a nation's governance than the gap or lack of a gap between public opinion and public policy. (Do a search for "progressive majority" and find out for yourself if you don't know.)
Obama is a right-winger because corporate interests gave him the majority of the $580 million he needed to win his election. He owes them, and needs them to get reelected. The entire spectrum is right wing because the system is controlled by big money and the two-party system excludes its greatest threat: progressives.
Our goal should be to have a progressive, constitutional revolution.
~EggZactly~
Democrats are the new Republicans, and Republicans are just plain hypocritical fascists.
"...in Norway even conservatives would say the Democrats and Obama don't go nearly far enough."
In America a lot of Progressives _know_ that Obama doesn't go far enough.
I've been harrassing Ron Wyden for weeks on the health care issue. The idiot _still_ thinks that what Americans _want_ is mandatory insurance, despite polls that are calling for the "public option", which wouldn't go far enough toward Single-payer. Jeff Merkley, being new to the Senate, isn't pushing Single-payer, but says he'd "vote for it if it ever gets to the Senate floor". Fat chance of that happening, with most Senators not having any balls.
Guess I need to find my old passport, get a new one, and figure out if there's a country with more progressive thinking that I might want to visit ... permanently. My great-grandparents came from Sweden in the 1850s-1860s; maybe they'd take me back as an ex-patriot.
We live in a golden cage.
Let's face this: 0's conservative in the US, too.
In the US, the president and the legislature, together, are most always to the right of the electorate on most issues. And the electorate is almost always to the right of the population as a whole.
This is not a question of going far enough or not far enough. Obama is going in the wrong direction.
when are they going to stop killing whales?
A wee bit off topic here dryfruit. Maybe you could elaborate ?
Why should we stop killing whales ?
a) They are beautiful animals.
b) The killing is inhumane
c) Whales are endangered specie.
d) All of the above.
Fact is that our whalers kills ca 1000 minke whales pr year of a population of 200 000. Each whale eats 5% of its weight (5-6 tons) pr day. You do the math.
Years of institutionalized anti-socialist propaganda are a proven success for the US conservative beast.
It seems to me that the left right divide is meaningless as the politicos have allegiance only to money and the folks who got the goods on them. That is why USA politics looks so hopelessly fucked from anywhere else on the planet.
Sophie Scholl-The Final Days
Aside from and beyond the "S" word is the commonly held believe in America that government is inefficient incompetent and untrustworthy. And most folks are perfectly incapable of discerning how there is a distinct difference between government as it should be versus government as it is. Too many think less government is better government, and they are blind to the concept of government as a guardian and promoter of the common good, as the principal agent to provide equitable relief from abuses of power and to provide benevolent wise and moral leadership for posterity.
Certainly, given the current culture in Washington, how could we begin to trust anything "they" devise to have absolute integrity. No matter what the schema, someone somewhere will unduly benefit from the redistribution of our tax dollars into their private coffers. It is quite simply The American Way - that is capitalism and the rationalization of private profit before the general welfare.
I have always been a believer in our Constitution and of the conviction that by its virtue we the people could affect the course of our nation. In any event I believed it assured us the right and means to effect a lawful revolution, by which we the people could restore the integrity of our good nation. That's what I believe Amendment X ultimately guarantees. It's just too bad so few folks can perceive that and rally around it. I believe it is the one and only thing we can actually hang our hat on, and use to bring about real change.
But yes, for the "S" phobes out there, and there are way too many of you, Norway offers (as do some others) the proof that your fears are unfounded. And their perspective offers you proof of what happens to the man that steps into the wolves den that is Washington. I just hope some of you other folks here start to understand that it isn't Obama near as much as it is the machinery that dominates the American political landscape, of which you yourself do play a part, whether on purpose or not.
Nice post!! All of the arguments we hear over and over again are turned to mush when confronted with the simple evidence that others have already demonstrated that it is indeed possible to do things right.
I admire the accomplishments of the people of Norway. I also admire the fierce individualism of freedom-loving Americans. I wish to remind those who would idealize Norwegian politics that prior to the economic meltdown in the Fall of 2008, the Norwegian conservative politicians were singing Bush's praises and praising the global economy, completely oblivious of their own good fortune due to excellent management of their oil resources.
What can we learn from them? We could learn that preserving the environment and harvesting our own oil and natural gas are not incompatible if both are owned and regulated by our own government. We have to stop treating our minerals and forests as though they belong to property owners. We have to preempt greed.
We could learn that our workers are our best and most scarce resource and that a thriving economy requires that workers at all levels are able to secure a decent living wage, health care, housing, and safe working conditions. We could learn that we gain happy citizens with high self-esteem when we pay for their education and university costs. We could learn that we retain our own highly trained professionals when we do not burden them with debts in communities that have no employment opportunities for them.
and I want to SAY IT AGAIN -- CT from Connecticut -- what you say is UNIVERSAL , it INDEED applies to ALL people on the planet, if rapacious structures such as those fomented and imposed by the USA were denied.
you comment is one of the most beautiful ways I have seen putting things in perspective, i wish i had written it:
exactly the same as Henry CK Liu said (and I believe his writings are SERIOUSLY being studied by the Chinese leaders - who are becoming wary of the growing wealth gaps and consequent destruction or undermining of their national unity among their different cultural groups -- such as between the majority HAN Chinese and the Muslin Uighurs being fomented by separatists but largely due to the growing disparities produced by capitalism - and so they are trying to find a way THROUGH it....in many ways ALREADY applying gradually many of Liu's suggestions...particularly in divesting AWAY from the Dollar HEgemony and FOCUS on INTERNAL development ).
as Henry CK Liu also observed: i paraphrase as below is a compilation ROUGH summary of DOZENS of separate , very involved articles of his:
"The global structure is built upon designs by imperial powers led by the USA - designed to Render weaker nations permanently subservient - one instrument being the Dollar Hegemony through the USA's monopoly of Dollar Fiat Printing -which effectively forces nations to not merely support the USA economy through their forced Dollar denominated savings from their earnings -- but ALSO by DENYING them the power to USE THESE SAVINGS for INTERNAL development -- in order to SERVICE their international trade transactions - and in effect - their SAVINGS are TWICE absorbed BACK into the USA's coffers with virtually NO PENALTIES for the USA's OWN mismanagements and debits and deficits and debts"
"the world is also structured - led by the USA - through wage arbitration by multinational corporations forcing this structure onto under developed and developing nations a regime of LOW WAGES .
what the globe NEEDS is an international
LABOR CARTEL to render the power of FINANCE capitalism become SUBSERVIENT to labor which is the TRUE WEALTH of NATIONS...ONE route towards THIS is for nations to realize that they do NOT NEED INTERNATIONAL or FOREIGN CAPITAL for their internal developments ....but instead for them to USE their SOVEREIGN CREDIT to FOSTER internal development".
and -- it seems that is EXACTLY what china is moving towards right now. while the US tries to keep china "buying US treasury bonds"
in what Liu calls - the UNEARNED and UNJUSTIFIED american "right" to "make other countries pay for ITS debts". ...which DEPRIVES THEM of PROPER USE of THEIR sovereign credit. ..which is INTERNAL development.
We could learn that our workers are our best and most scarce resource and that a thriving economy requires that workers at all levels are able to secure a decent living wage, health care, housing, and safe working conditions. We could learn that we gain happy citizens with high self-esteem when we pay for their education and university costs. We could learn that we retain our own highly trained professionals when we do not burden them with debts in communities that have no employment opportunities for them.
=========
that in particular is such a refreshingly clear way of intoning what a fine , highly educated and learned historian and writer for AsiaTimesonline has written:
HENRY CK LIU.
in a very long series of dozens of articles - basically detailing - right down to the personages, treaties, circumstances, entities, etc - of the HISTORY of economics - capitalism Monetarisn, banking, "sovereign wealth" , what is "credit" - what is "sovereign debt". what was the "bretton-woods" monetary regime all about. what is dollar hegemony. etc....
he basically PUT DOWN the DOGMA of capitalist "faith" based on twisted versions - AND ALSO the fundamentals of Adam Smith's "WEALTH OF NATIONS".
INSTEAD OF MONETARISM - upon which the global structure is dictated....
Henry CK Liu upended it - with those great supporting arguments and histories - with the conclusion just like yours above:
saying:
"THE TRUE WEALTH OF NATIONS is PEOPLE...........without PEOPLE there is NO economy..Money, goods, services are only there to SERVE people - and these as well as the Market is ONLY a subset of an economy..and governments that are wise need to invest IN people above all..for a nation that invests in the good health, the education, the old age, the basic needs of people is a nation that has people able to be truly creative and free to be who they want to be....a nations TRUE Destiny is and always should be the happiness fulfilment of its people who - in their individual capacities and interests give what they have to their fellow citizens and others with JOY because their BASIC WANTS are being met ....and a society that strives to provide conditions towards these goals produces people who are all WEALTHY -- and where all are wealthy -- WEALTH gradually becomes IRRELEVANT...THIS can be achieved much more simply and QUICKLY than classic monetarist policies dictate over the centuries....the answer is VERY simple:
Nations should use THEIR NATIONAL RIGHT to utilize their SOVEREIGN CREDIT issuance power to create , in short time, FULL EMPLOYMENT AT HIGH AND EVER RISING WAGES - redeemable through taxation payable THROUGH the SAME SOVEREIGN credit issued by governments.
DOLLAR HEGEMONY is the greatest obstable to nations REALIZING their TRUE NATIONAL DESTINIES of prosperity for all their peoples".
We exchanged social benefits like Norway enjoys to play fantasy democracy by believing the nonsense that we could affect progressive change within the Democratic Party. For generations, the Democratic Party has successfully prevented the development of a viable progressive third party in the US. In the book "The Democrats: a Critical History", author Lance Selfa consistently demonstrates that this is in fact the Dems role in American politics. Why is this the case? Because we have a one party state, the business or capitalist party with two factions: Democrats and Republicans. Both factions serve the interests of the elite class - not the interests of the majority. The few progressive changes that we were able to achieve, did not come from the Democrats, they came from massive social movements not connected to party politics. The influence of the social movements in the '30's and '60's atrophied when movement leaders were lured into the Democratic Party in the 1940's and 1970's.
The Democratic Party has sold us out every time, and will again now and in the future with "hope", "change" and "yes we can" Barack Obama. The Democrats are not, and have never been, on our side.
Well, yes and no. It's at least debatable whether you've really been "sold out" by either of the corporate political parties or whether you've simply allowed wishful thinking to so distort the obvious historical realties of both that you've only seen and heard what you wanted to see and hear -- not just once but repeatedly and in the face of ever-increasing evidence about their true "representational" character.
Yes, however when the corporate oligopoly that controls most information that American see and hear, sponsors, censors and dictates election campaigns and debates; elections that cost 100s of millions; corporate personhood legal frameworks; money-as-free-speech legal frameworks; election fraud etc. There is no meaningful practical choice, just an illusion of choice.
In short, the point is moot as we don't live in a country where democracy is actually practiced, it is only and ideal. Democracy here is only a very expensive PR stunt.
RE: wishful thinking
But isn't that the key? Every election cycle, Americans buy into a myth that the Democrats actively promote.They are convinced that the Democrats will fight for their interests, or, at least the Dems are the "lesser of two evils". As you correctly point out, it is this wishful thinking that gets sold out.
"It's been OK to marginalize blacks and Amerinds and other minority groups. We will see how it goes when the middle class is marginalized." - George Markley
The middle class is already being marginalized. Last month, Sen. Max Baucus of Montana convened a panel of the anointed from the private health care industry - hospitals, doctors, HMOs, insurance companies - to discuss health care reform before the Senate Finance Committee. When a number of people, including doctors and nurses, rose to protest that single payer national health care advocates had been excluded from the discussion, Sen. Baucus had them arrested. At the time, a half-dozen polls showed that a publicly financed, privately delivered health care system was favored by a majority of the electorate. Nothing more clearly demonstrates that our legislators represent, not the people who voted them into office, but the corporate interests who finance their election campaigns.
Norwegians are not alone in tending to focus on individual presidential characteristics and those of other incumbent holders of governmental office when assessing what passes for a "political spectrum" in the U.S. The sad fact is that neither the president nor the U.S. government as a whole is representative of anything at all excepting their paid sponsors.
The real tragedy is that many Americans share the same misperceptions about their so-called "representative democracy" and its alleged popular sovereignty as a "republic." In fact, the wants and wishes of ordinary Americans aren't radically different from the rest of humanity anywhere. The U.S. government is there precisely in order to ensure that they never get what they want and wish for. And, in that role of representing the interests of USA Incorporated, it's quite successful.
What you are all missing is the homogenous nature of such progressive societies. Any country that allows large numbers of foreign (to their culture) immigrants devolves into an 'us' against 'them' mentality in short order. I've seen it happen, even in very small countries composed of various tribes with pretty inconsequential differences.
Americans have always hated 'the other' - for one reason or another - usually blaming them for poverty (taking THEIR jobs) before finally embracing them as a new wave of immigrants arrived. Of course, those 'wealthy elites' promote such primitive notions and spend a lot of money dividing us all so we will squabble among ourselves while they loot the country. (Funny how both 'us' and 'them' end up picking up the tab for the predations of those warmongers.)
You can't compare apples and oranges - what would Norway (or Finland, or any other advanced developed nation) look like if it opened its borders? (It helps when those borders are extremely hard to approach, as well.) Having lived in Europe, I've seen how those 'outsiders' are treated by the indigenous population (or those who claim to be so) and I've seen how major countries are torn apart by different indigenous tribes - who always seem to want 'their own' country, so they DON'T have to extend all those social niceties to the 'lazy others' - it's the same all over the world, and don't let anyone tell you different until you've lived there for a while yourself. (And I don't mean as a week-end tourist, either, but as 'one of them' - if you can.
nah you got to try a little harder, despite the attempts of our governments to make us more like you, I still consider Canada to be a socially progressive country. It is not a cultural melting pot but a cultural mosaic, where any ethnic member may celebrate and promote their ethnicity.
You might want to come up for a visit, hell, you can even celebrate the fourth of July!
Sophie Scholl-The Final Days
Lack of diversity is more the culprit than foreign immigrants. The two-party system in the US reduces the debate to a us/them dialogue.
probably one of the most uneducated comments i have read on CD.
maybe if these "progressive" white homogeneous societies started treating the "uneducated,poor, brown" societies with respect.
then lowered their tariffs, so that these farmers could have a fighting chance on the supposed "Free market".
maybe then i might consider these WHITE homogeneous societies, "progressive" as you say.
ever heard of paul farmer?
my favorite quote from him is this to a banker:
banker: the poor really need to control their sexual urges, because population is out of control.
paul farmer: i think the bankers need to control their sexual urges, not because they are getting laid, but because they are screwing the poor people.
I agree. People with diverse cultures living in communities existing side-by-side leads to a diversity of viewpoints, values, and goals, which results in an increase in miscommunication, misunderstanding, mistrust, and social division and a greater degree of social chaos. Predators thrive in environments filled with social chaos, as their potential victims are more easily manipulated and will have more difficulty in banding together for protection. A culturally diverse country is the perfect Petri dish for predatory modes of behavior, such as those of corporatism, to grow.
Right after the election of 2004 I went to the Norwegian Consulate in San Francisco to find out about emigrating to that country. Immigration, however, had been curtailed in the 1970's. Very smart move on their part. They told me the only way to get in is to own property there.
Now we have SLOBama . . . and I still wish I could move there.
I hear you loud and clear on that Mordechai, I have some former Norwegian colleagues who have it made in the shade:
They not only did not pay a dime for their university education (including MA/MS PhD) they received expense checks and stipends from the Norwegian govt. They got PAID to become educated! Debt after going to university is unheard of there. They have healthcare, pensions (not 401ks), paid paternity leave, minimum of 5 weeks paid vacation etc.
Having visited Norway, I can attest to the place being one of the most pristine places on earth, spotelessly clean, perfectly smooth roadways, not one piece of trash anywhere, it is an unbelievably beautiful place. The only catch is the weather and it costs $10-12 dollars for a beer in a bar/restaurant. I would overlook that anyday to get those benefits; as you said, getting permanent residency is almost impossible (no wonder)
Obama, and US politics in general, is firmly to the right of center compared to the rest of the developed world, with the possible exception of the UK.
Yea, I am at this time looking for a country like Norway to move to. Possibly New Zealand. I have lived in Latin America in the past mostly in Costa Rica but the speculators and tourists have pretty much ruined that nice little country. I am tired of all this ridiculous political sham war going on in this country. It is used to cover up the fact the the corporations run the country. We could move both Republicans and Democrats to Texas and let them fight it out for eternity. We could call their country the Capital of Greed.
Note that the conservative pro business mag The Economist lists Norway as one of the ten top countries for entrepreneurs.
Go figure.
What the author George Lakey fails to mention in his piece is an important cultural facet of Norwegian society; the overall well being of the whole is valued much more highly than individual achievement. The natural cultural manifestation of this is their generous social benefits that is financed by North Sea oil and their national hedge fund (which sets the gold standard for full disclosure of investments and strategy for the entire planet). A visible manifestation of this ethos can be seen every time their national soccer teams (Men's & Women's) plays, as the side favors team play geared towards victory and eschews individual stars.
Speaking of Michael Jackson, I saw one of the most absurd thing I think I ever saw on the news this morning. One of the big Mainstream Media reporters was commenting on how the Michael Jackson story was crowding out other important stories, like the riots in China, North Korean missile tests, and the economy to mention a few.
Hello!!! MSM decides what the American people see! They act like they are helpless to decide what goes on the boob-tube. There must be a boob-tube fairy that magically puts the crap on TV that we have to watch.
NC-Tom:
In a sense the MSM is helpless. The corporations run the show. They broadcast what attracts the most viewers so they can go for the big bucks paid by their sponsors and advertisers. And what attracts the majority of Americans? Stories/gossip, etc. about stars, their "personalities", their icons, their idols. Most Americans don't care (and don't know) what's going on in the rest of the world because, as far as they're concerned, they are the centre of the universe. The MSM keeps track of what attracts the most viewers and they give people what they want. If everyone stopped watching and/or started demanding quality programs, they would have to change.
Seethroughbs sez:
"In a sense the MSM is helpless. The corporations run the show."
***************
Close but not exactly true--each of us run the show of what will enter our minds and with what we will fill our minds day after day.
Poet
When Marx spoke about opiate for the masses, he probably had the MSM in mind :-(
Thanks for this informative and fascinating piece. My question is this: why do the mainstream media not bring this kind of info into the mainstream public view? Surely there's room among all the Michael Jackson tributes for a tidbit or two about other ways to solve our problems?
You are not going to hear about it from the mainstream media because holding bankers responsible and firing them is not allowed in the corporate culture that the MSM espouses, and neither is using oil profits for public good.
I love this site but the more I read here the more I get disgusted with how this country is being run, and how we seem to be helpless to do anything about it. I fell bad for all the people that worked so hard to get Obama elected only to find out that he will probably be a no more than an articulate version of George W. Bush.
Well of course we are lavishing all of our media time on Michael jackson. Isn't that what we do, to feel good about ourselves? Isn't that what all the GOP adulation of Ronald Reagan is about? The truth is that we are living in a society that is so far right it is fascist in all but name.
The problem is not that we do not have the resources. The problem is that it is squandered in the constant building of new and better systems for killing people. America has to drop the myth of redemptive (heroic) violence in order to become a society where life actually matters.
Thank you.
albert camus points out that the leader of a crack fascist ranger battalion in the spanish civl war, scarred and crippled, designed the flag for his group, which said,"long live death"....
You are so right, Leaderless. I saw a program on Discovery or some other such channel, about our failing infrastructure. Our dams, levees, highways, not to mention schools and social programs, are falling apart and we will soon be having huge natural disasters without the social means to help those in need (just think Katrina, but on a much larger scale). Then I read an article in CD about how much we spend each year on the military (in the hundreds of billions of dollars). Our wars of aggression are not only costly in moral terms and terms of death and destruction, they are ruining our country in a very physical way. The myth you talk about is one propagated by those cashing in on our wars (and those of Israel, by the way, which we finance). The middle class in this country has been living in a dream laced with all sorts of fancy myths. We are one of the most propagandized societies in the world, starting in grade school (at least as much as Muslim societies). For example, we were taught to shudder at Communism, now it's Socialism. But it's getting harder and harder to keep these myths going, despite the blitz by neo-conservatives and their 'liberal' allies in the corporate owned media. The middle class, increasingly out of work and loosing its property, is waking up to a grim reality. Soon they will have to call out the army and national guard to quell unrest, the kid gloves will be off and we will be another "banana republic" (ironically at a time when Latin America is waking up to indigenous rule). It's been OK to marginalize blacks and Amerinds and other minority groups. We will see how it goes when the middle class is marginalized.
People often don't seem to realise spending HUMONGOUS amounts of money on the military is also Big Government.
The right isn't against Big Government. Right wingers just want to use Big Government for the military.
"We will see how it goes when the middle class is marginalized."
Sorry George, but we're seeing it. And from what I can tell most are ecstatic that we have a president that can actually put a few sentences together and seems 'thoughtful', never mind the continuation of pro-corporate policies that are actually causing their/our own demise.
Yes we are the most propagandized society in the world. Banality rules OUR airwaves while we keep bombing people to feed the military-industrial-congressional complex. Throw in the concept of American exceptionalism and voila, you get a perfect storm of a shrinking middle class of Obomba apologists.
I'm a little more optimistic than you about the middle class, Old Peculiar, but I'm probably wrong.
As a 3rd generation Norwegian American I think we could learn alot from thier society.They are rather conservative socially.But have a much more equitable system,and very friendly people. peace
We could learn so much from Europe, not to mention all the other peoples of the world, if we weren't so arrogant. All over the world there are people doing some things right. It's all out there for the harvest. But in a nation of arrogant sheep being led to the slaughter house by very evil, greedy men, who is there to listen and learn?
Indeed. Just think of what the French, for example, could teach us about assimilating immigrants. lol...
Bah, you don't know the whole story. The people involved in the riots are usually *illegal* immigrants and kids looking for trouble. How quiet is LA these days, any black riots lately? And how are those street gangs doing?
Of course not everything is perfect in every European country, why should it be? France is the exception with regards to its immigrants and minorities, they struggle with a minority that chose to stay after the French colonies gained independence. That's pretty unique for France (in both the Americas and Europe).
If you take Portugal on the other hand people from *their* colonies are fully integrated. It's a different story from country to country.
I think you're really silly for using them as an example when your *own* country has plenty of bad examples to choose from.
Gender neutral marriage is legal in Norway. Norway was the first country in the world to legally prevent discrimination against homosexuals. Norway has extensive anti discrimination laws. Adoption by same sex couples. Immigration rights for same sex couples.
About half the Norwegian government is usually female. About 40 percent of the Norwegian legislature are women. Regular campaigns are waged to get more women involved in politics.
Norway has a Gender Equality Ombud that enforces Gender Equality laws. Not that women are completely in equal positions but, there is a very good argument to be made that Norwegian society is the most equal society in the world for women.
Increasingly, Norway is also looking at gender equality, for males. Men have exclusive "maternity" leave: 4 weeks of the maternity leave that a couple gets is specifically for the father. A woman can choose to "give" more of her maternity leave to the father, if he's the main child carer.
In contested divorce cases, fathers are increasingly getting a more equal hearing.
Equality and egalitarianism appear to be a central fundamental tenets of Norwegians. Socially conservative or not. Most Americans, including Obama, would probably consider Norwegians to be deranged social radicals.
Gee. A country that recognizes that there's more to gender equality than doubling the wage slave labor force. What a unique concept!
rfloh, Progressive as far as sexual egalitarianism for sure,but strict moralism and public safety laws that border on draconian by U.S. standards,thats what I meant by socially conservative.Dont get caught driving drunk or kiss your license goodbye and do some time(first offense 1 year correct me if thats changed),drug laws are improving but still strict.Of course you can always get a ride or designated driver.The work week and vacation time are generous even by European standards.I believe the place seems so idylic comparitively that the imigration laws had to be tightened up.I spent a summer there as a youth and didn't want to return to New York. peace
As a Norwegian lawyer I think you must have misunderstood the penalties.
You automatically lose your license for at least a year or two. However jail time is rarely a full year for such an offense, that would be disproportionate (and in conflict with Norwegian legal principals).
I believe you would spend a month or so in jail for drunk driving but it depends on the circumstances and levels of intoxication. Several months if severe.
Of course if your drunk driving caused harm to someone/something that is a different matter.
(irony alert) Yeah, I'd hate to live in a country that punishes drunk driving.
And the US is the most draconian and punitive of all the Westen democracies (heck, it doesn't even qualify as a democracy anymore, in my book). It imprisons more people than most tin-pot dictatorships. It's become a pretty squalid place - the Trailer Park of Western civilization.
They may be a bit stodgy over in Norway, maybe even a bit parochial because of all the homogeneity, but their life is much better and built on better values.
Is Obama just a terrible wimp or is he so incredibly stupid that he doesn't see the big picture?
Or is he a corporate shill after all?
Ah, ok, I see what you're saying.
One thing though, drunk driving: not drink driving is considered socially conservative? Punishing drunk driving heavily is socially conservative? Why? There can be very serious consequences to other people when someone drinks and then drives. Would punishing heavily someone who gets drunk, then walks around waving a loaded gun in a public place, be considered socially conservative?
This is all true (other than calling Norway "socialist," it is a capitalist cradle to the grave welfare state. While much better than our system, it still does not mean that the society controls the means of production.)
Anyway, the truth is that Obama is even on the right here in the U.S. True, he fakes towards what we absurdly consider "the left" on occasion, but his policies have more or less been a perfect match to Bush's. Everything from taking money from the working class and the poor and giving it to the rich, to torture and detaining people indefinitely are Bush policies. And of course, he has continued Bush's wars, not to mention other forms of intervention around the world, such as in Honduras.
It's gotten so ridiculous that Bush would have been considered to be to the left if he had switched to the Democratic Party.
Whenever someone touts a certain political or economic theory on this site (e.g. Libertarianism, parecon, etc.), I like to ask for working models of such ideas.
It's wonderful to see that Progressive ideals have such a model (so much for the fraud of Friedmanism). I now await the trashing of Norway by the reactionary troglodytes have been directed to foul this board.
Why can't Norway's example be emaulated by the US? The answer is simple: Norwegians care about the welfare of other Norwegians. Americans don't give a rat's ass about each other.
q
My 'Significant Other' lived in Norway about 30 years ago, in a relatively small city. Even then, the roads and towns were kept clean of snow and trash, even the sidewalks, thanks to an aggressive state-run agency that paid its employees well. Housing was extremely cheap; an apartment that would rent for $500 per month in Chicago went for $100 in Norway, often with utilities included. Food was also inexpensive, even imported brands. And, of course, health care was 'free' and she even once went to the doctor for a minor non-emergency injury and -- guess what -- no long lines, no insurance forms, no unneeded tests, no expensive drugs or treatments. He didn't even ask her for a medical ID card, he just treated her, knowing she was an American and, technically, not eligible for Norwegian health care. Oh, and every person who wanted one had a job, but even those who didn't or couldn't work weren't out begging in the streets or living in shelters or cardboard boxes. They had modest apartments and money enough to eat and live decent, dignified lives. She saw no homeless people there, even in Oslo. True, the government taxed even average workers 70 percent of their income, but they enjoyed the highest standard of living in the world, and it was offset by how cheap everything else was. This is what Americans don't know and aren't being told about Norwegian-style socialism. Most importantly, Norway is a democracy and they could easily vote out socialism any time they choose -- there are always right-wing parties on the ballot ready to junk Norwegian socialism for American-style 'free market' corporatism. Those parties were dismissed by most sane Norwegians as fringe nutcases and never garnered much of the vote.
She thought it was telling that not one Norwegian she talked to was willing to give up their 'horrible' state of socialism for what we have, and they weren't angry at the government or each other all the time. The government was regarded as a friend there to help, rather than an enemy of the people. As one of her Norwegian friends told her, "If you want a civilized society that works for everyone, you have to be willing to pay for it." It's a concept foreign to most modern American minds, even though our country was founded as a commonwealth of, by and for the people.
quickstepper,
Interesting comments. Have you visited the Kingdom of Norway? From your words, probably not. For instance, your statement, "I now await the trashing of Norway by the reactionary troglodytes have been directed to foul this board." followed by, "Americans don't give a rat's ass about each other." would be considered ignorant, intolerant speech in Norway.
Norway looks alot like the west coast of New Zealand or the southwest coast of Alaska. It's a beautiful country. The entire population of the Kingdom of Norway is about 4.8 million people. Harald V is Norway's king. Norway has an official state church (Evangelical Lutheran), too. I'm uncomfortable with the idea of a king and a state church. How about you?
The Norwegian people share an ancient, homogeneous culture based on rural, Lutheran values. Generally, Norwegians are friendly, hardy, thrifty and socially quite reserved. Norwegians tend to form tight social cliques, are irritatingly self-satisfied and were a little to cozy with the Nazi's during WWII.
Since, WWII, Oslo has diversified somewhat through immigration. For the most part, cultural tolerance and social pluralism abound in that city and "multi-culturalism" (separated sub-cultures) is discouraged.
The primary reason Norway's economy is prosperous, quickstepper, is due to their massive North / Norwegian Sea oil reserves - the largest in Europe. Norway's taxes are high, alcohol is very expensive and technical innovation is low. Norway has an active whaling fleet, too.
Go check it out ....
Oregoncharles
I've been to Norway! I was astounded by the wealth of what looked like just about everyone. The people I encountered were, yes, quite self satisfied but never failed to assist me if I needed help getting around. I'm sure Norway is not the perfect Utopia but consider how Americans are forced to live, forced (by reasons of economic necessity) to fight imperial wars. At least Norwegians have single payer health care and all citizens have a roof over their heads, food on the table. The US has the money to ease the pain and suffering of its citizens, but that would mean that billionaires would have to give up a little. Can't have that in America.
You are full of it. The King is a mere figurehead, loved by his "subjects". The state church has no say in policy, it even wants to separate from the state!
Our freedom of speech laws are a lot more lenient than you would have it! Speaking as a lawyer I can assure you that those statements you mentioned are NOT illegal.
The Norwegian economy is not fueled by the oil revenue, we have plenty of other sources of income from fishing to tourism. And technology is a big part of our economy! From car parts to electronics, from hydro energy to minerals.
You say technological innovation is low in Norway, how do you come to that conclusion?! I guess Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, HP and others have missed something here. Microsoft just bought our search technology company, FAST Search and Transfer. It's now Microsoft's global search division HQ. HP has it's European health care informatics HQ here. I could go on and on.
From the GSM standard, offshore oil technology, the Opera Browser, Laerdal medical to the invention of OOP programming languages. You have no clue about our technological innovation and progress.
The US is only seen as more "innovative" because of all the foreigners that come to start their companies there (see Google etc). We will see what happens now that Indians are staying in India for example.
The Norwegian economy is far from based upon oil & gas revenue, that is internationally recognized as the whole reason my nation avoided the "Dutch curse". The exact opposite of what you claimed. Oil revenue represented 4% of our budget, the funds are invested abroad!
The Norwegian whaling fleet is perfectly legal according to the IWC, we legally objected and the moratorium is not valid for us. Whaling is ALSO done in ALASKA! What have you got to say about your OWN whaling activities?!
"Harald V is Norway's king. Norway has an official state church (Evangelical Lutheran), too. I'm uncomfortable with the idea of a king and a state church. How about you?"
LOL. You know full freaking well what the role of the monarchy in Norway is. And what it isn't. And you know full freaking well what the role of the church in Norway is. And what it isn't.
"The primary reason Norway's economy is prosperous, quickstepper, is due to their massive North / Norwegian Sea oil reserves - the largest in Europe"
Good job ignoring the article's point that their reserves are nationalised to ensure every Norwegian gets a share of them.
"The Norwegian people share an ancient, homogeneous culture based on rural, Lutheran values. Generally, Norwegians are friendly, hardy, thrifty and socially quite reserved. Norwegians tend to form tight social cliques, are irritatingly self-satisfied and were a little to cozy with the Nazi's during WWII. "
Seriously you really need to do better if you want to troll. Heard of Pippi Longstocking?
As I predicted . . . .
No, I haven't been to Norway and that fact is beside the point of the article.
If the people of Norway are comfortable with their form of government and their church-state relations then what you or I may think is irrelevant.
Your cynical description of the Norwegians says much more about you than it does about them.
q
Absolutely. When people can ally their own self-interest with the interest of those surrounding them, amazing things happen. USAn's need to mature beyond adolescence to get this concept.
a
But such exhortations do no good.
The more interesting and useful question is how did USAns acquire such a philosophy of narrow-self-interest above all, or as Michael Moore has said "me-me-me-me-me"?
Simply describing it as a relic of US rural settler-history doesn't cut it, because from 1930 to about 1972, public social consciousness was on the increase, then, from the late 197O's onward, there was a sharp reversal and an adoption of an an extreme level of economic self-absorbtion as epitomized by the popularity of the socipathic "philosopy" of Ayn Rand which was misnamed "libertarianism". Except for maybe a few followers in the UK, nowhere else has this so-called "libertarian" philosophy reached such levels of popularity.
I believe that this is best explained as a truimph of a deliberate program of corporate PR which has bene sucessfully integrated this pernicious form of individualism into television programming, movies, and the wider culure. If there is a historical component that made this program easier, it might be the US religion of exceptionalism, which keeps USAns from ever examining successful examples of economic egalitarianism in other nations.
Have you seen the BBC documentary, The Century of the Self? Over the 4th of July weekend, I watched the four-part series on Google Video. Previously, I had only seen excerpts. Last week, someone on another thread reminded me about the documentary. The film relates quite an ominous story, which includes the pervasive involvement of the PR industry in U.S. corporations -- something you mentioned in your post.
The other day, I listened to Noam Chomsky deliver a speech and he even mentioned Edward Bernays and his influence on marketing in this country. Edward Bernays was the nephew of Sigmond Freud, and he was hired to enact his theories on PR in this country.
I did see The Century of the Self, Kay. Disturbingly interesting.
So much of what we do, even when we think we're acting as individuals, has actually been planted in our subconscious by marketing psychology. That is why I applaud individual acts of economic subterfuge.
Perfectly spoken quickstepper, and because most Americans don't care about each other is a big reason that we are in the mess we are in.
I also found it interesting that I NEVER heard about what was discussed in the article in any mainstream news source. I guess when another country successfully deals with issues that are not in the "American tradition" of how to deal with those issues, it is not shown to, or should I say must not be shown to the American people by the corporate media.
The mainstream media doesn't cover these stories beacuse they are part of the corporate control of the government.
Makes me just want to sell my property here in the corporate states and move to a sweet little cabin along a fjord somewhere...
Had Republican Dwight Eisenhower (Ike) risen from the grave and competed in the 2008 Democratic Party Primary, he would have been considered too left wing and would have met the same fate as Dennis Kucinich.
During the past 50 years the military industrial media complex (that Ike warned us about) has taken control of the US Government to the extent that Obama is far to the right of the Rockefeller Republicans.
In 1970 corporations paid 29% of US income taxes. Today they pay 6% and within 10 years they will pay no income tax. Every dollar that is not being paid by the corporations is another dollar the gov. will extract from you, with much of your tax money being channneled into more corporate welfare. Meanwhile the corporations gain ever more control of the Government and decide where all the tax money will go.