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Conyers Rips Rangel, Waxman for Backing Off Single Payer
John Conyers (D-Michigan) was not happy last night with his colleagues Charles Rangel (D-New York) and Henry Waxman (D-California).
Conyers is sponsor of the single payer bill (HR 676) in the House.
The bill has 79 co-sponsors.
Rangel and Waxman were co-sponsors last year.
But they are not co-sponsors this year.
Rangel, Waxman and George Miller (D-California) each chair committees that will be hearing health care reform proposals.
Only Miller is cooperating with Conyers - remaining a co-sponsor of HR 676 and holding hearings.
In fact, Miller's committee today held the first ever Congressional hearing on HR 676.
Conyers spoke last night on Capitol Hill at a dinner in honor of outgoing Public Citizen President Joan Claybrook.
"There are three committees that have been designated to work on (health care) on the House side," Conyers said. "[They are headed by] three dear buddies of mine - Charlie Rangel, Henry Waxman and George Miller. Guess what? All of them were on single payer (HR 676)."
"Guess what? All of them got off except for George Miller of California. Not only did he not get off, he said - you want a hearing, you got a hearing."
"It's one thing to go down in defeat, which I don't plan to do by the way," Conyers said. "But it's another thing to say - we don't want to hear the most popular bill. I've got 79 co-sponsors. Seventy-nine men and women saying - let's get this thing on. We've got 300 to 400 unions. We've had three polls. The American people have spoken."
"And here I am in the most Democratically controlled legislature in my life. And they are saying - it's kind of too late because we have to get this thing through by the end of July. And we don't have time."
"Hey look - I've worked on this too damn long to let anybody - I'm going to every Committee not just Miller's. Charlie Rangel - get ready for your pal to come to your Committee."
"Henry Waxman, my brilliant friend, open up your door. And then if you want to try to pull something that's okay. But to tell me it's too late - I've got news for you. That means you really didn't know me all of these years."
"We're going to have HR 676 heard in every committee of the House of Representatives or my name ain't John Conyers."
"I don't mind losing a debate or losing the vote, but Jesus Christ don't tell me that my proposal is off the table before we start, without even a hearing," Conyers said.
"What kind of a Democratic congress is this?" he asked.
Conyers also gave the back of his hand to President Obama.
"I've finally persuaded my favorite president in life to - not put single payer on the table - but to at least let me in the room," Conyers said. "That was a great complement I suppose."
"How are you going to have a transformational health care program that has been vaunted and touted for so long if you take the most popular remedy for it off the table to begin the negotiations?" Conyers asked. "You won't get it."
"The reason is elementary Dear Watson," Conyers said. "The corporate health care people, the insurance people don't want to leave the room. And they are not leaving the room. And as long as they are there, you are going to have some sad version of the same crap you were supposed to be fixing in the first place."
(Listen to audio of Conyers' remarks here.)
- Posted in
49 Comments so far
Show AllWhat part of Dick Durbin's comment (about the banking and insurance industries owning Congress) didn't you understand?
Please contact your US Congressional Rep. and two US Senators and tell them that this issue will be a deal breaker...if they don't support single-payer, you will not vote for them, irrespective of the rest of their voting record.
This issue is so critical that we cannot let Obama and Congress sell out to the insurance and drug industries.
So people should contact the people who banking and insurance industries (F.I.R.E. -- real estate too -- cf. Michael Hudson)? And you will vote for who? Republicans or some other Democratic shills who are also bought off? That's a bit like pouring more bailout money into the hands of the banksters who have already stolen everything through fraud. (What part of the statement about Congress being *owned* didn't you understand? -- take it to logical conclusion.)
What needs to be done is outside the system which is already owned. At the very least we need to vote Green or Socialist in any case, but do a lot more too -- people need to *organize*, and BDS -- boycott, divest, and sanction here as well as in Israel. That's the where power of the people is.
I hear you there pilgrim
The majority of people have desired a universal single-payer type system for decades. The corrupt system will not allow corporate profit to be undermined. Therefore the poeople must demand it, otherwise we aint gonna get nothing. Voting has not worked, we must boycott, demonstrate, orgnaize and even engage in civil disobedience. If we settle for nothing now, we'll settle for nothing later.
The only thing that possibly gets their attention is a SERIOUS PRIMARY CHALLENGE. And, it's very easy to see who needs a challenger.
In California, there are FOUR members who are on the Health Subcommittee under Congressman Henry Waxman's Energy and Commerce Cmte. Starting with (and including) Henry, it includes Jane Harman, Anna Eschoo, and Lois Capps. NONE of them are co-sponsors of Conyers' H.R. 676. Waxman WAS a co-sponsor last session but has since retreated in spite of overwhelming support for Single Payer in his congressional district.
Harman already has a primary opponent, Marcy Winograd (winograd4congress@gmail.com)-- a strong SINGLE PAYER SUPPORTER and peace activist. She challenged Jane back in '06 and got over 38% of the vote with only three months of campaigning. She's out there early this time and has an excellent chance. GO MARCY!!!
Now for the others.
"What kind of Democratic congress is this"
Boy does that sum it up.
1)Violent Revolution is not acceptable.
2)Third Party Success would demand a Right/Left Coalition and a miracle.
3)Mass civil disobedience has a proven record of defeating empires and governments.
4) Creating all encompassing local support systems.
Numbers 2, 3, and 4 may be practiced simultaneously.
Writing as a constituent of Representative Henry Waxman, I am most disappointed with this cave to the "Health" industry. I have already made my disapproval known to his office (I informed them that I tore up one of his fund raising letters), and urge any other habituates of this sight whom reside in his or any other Congressperson's district to do likewise.
Start calling and faxing and don't stop:
310-652-3095, 818-878-7400, 323-651-1040, FAX 323-655-0502
202-225-3976, 202-225-4099 FAX
(USE 91364-4435 as your zip if asked)
I have known that Rangel is a douchebag but I am seriously disappointed in Waxman. Up to this point, I've held him in the same high regard that I hold Sanders, Feingold, Kucinich, and Durbin.
There must be something in his district that is causing him to abandon his principles (Please stop laughing).
q
Only because you haven't been in his office hearing him make lame excuses why he wouldn't support impeachment. Many people WITHIN his district still remember the earlier Waxman.
He's very good at holding great hearings and following up with the press conference. But, just ask him to USE the findings!
His office is having a meeting at UCLA 6/17 -- as part of his support for the HCAN group that is NOT SINGLE PAYER.
If you're anywhere NEAR LA, SHOW UP & voice your opinions to his staffer.Event link:
http://healthcarereformforum.eventbrite.com/
ANOTHER issue to call or fax about is his SUPPORT FOR THE WAR FUNDING.
And, he HAS been on the right side of many issues in the past...so why not now??? His constituents in Woodland Hills, Topanga, Pacific Palisades, Santa Monica, and Malibu want to know this too. PHONE AND FAX NUMBERS POSTED ABOVE EARLIER.
"And here I am in the most Democratically controlled legislature in my life. And they are saying - it's kind of too late because we have to get this thing through by the end of July. And we don't have time."
This is exactly the same argument used by the Bush administration when the UN came back with proof that the yellowcake documents were forgeries. Ooh baby, it might be wrong but I can't stop now! Premature ejaculation, war or "health" "care" "reform".
Well Conyers, we're getting old. And if you told me the Democrats could control the White House, the Senate and the House and sit there and lie and take bribes and sell us out and that we would make excuses for them, I would have said no, they'd do something right for us. I do believe Hillary would have at least fought for us on this issue. But not Obama. Hurry, hurry. The man still has other goodies to deliver to GE, we bring good things to those that can afford them.
Jacksonian
Your comment is cynical, bitter, and totally true. As long as Congress is bought and paid for, what difference does it make who controls power? It's time for serious campaign finance reform, especially the removal of private money from public office. Why don't we do away with campaigns altogether and just elect Congress by lottery. Could we do any worse?
isn't conyers the one who, as head of the judiciary committee, shelved impeachment by letting it die there?
how great to be able to whine for the 'correct' position, as if you'd love it to come to pass, and are incredibly disappointed that it might not, when, really, you're just reading lines...he and sanders are really working it...I guess that comes with seniority?
You got in ahead of me, dubet.
While I commend Conyers for plodding along with single-payer, my first thought was that now Conyers knows how many of us felt when he similarly abandoned his support for impeaching Bush-- and had Cindy Sheehan and her group forcibly removed from his office and arrested by Capitol Police.
· Yr Obd't Servant
I know Conyers was between a rock and a hard place on impeachment. Pelosi was threatening to throw him off the committee chairmanship if he didn't shut up on that. She has shown herself perfectly capable of running a tight ship when she chooses. At least he's being allowed to fight this fight. That says something.
PNHP has these great buttons, and they're pretty smart. You have to buy 5. They say "Ask me about Single Payer". So we have to try to find 4 friends to wear them and make sure they can answer the question. They also have bumper stickers that say "I'm a Single Payer Voter". The words "Single Payer" are actually creeping out into the wilderness AKA the American Public. Still a lot of ignorance. Even my chiropractor didn't know anything about it. I think practically everyone is apolitical, which leaves the wolves free to roam the field.
When the people fear their government there is tyranny,
when the government fears the people there is liberty.
~ Thomas Jefferson
The term "single payer" is unfortunate, because it has to be explained to people. Don't know why we started using this euphemism for National Health Insurance. I'll buy some buttons though.
Agree, tho --
MEDICARE FOR ALL . . .
which is Conyers bill is very clear
.
"According to all myth, the female - not the male -- gives life"
Where can people find what Representatives have signed on to be cosponosors or not?
thanks.
http://www.johnconyers.com/hr676endorse has the current list.
Last year there were 93 co-sponsors according to http://www.democrats.com/node/18878.
"http://www.johnconyers.com/hr676endorse has the current list."
That list can't be current--it has Rangel's name on it among 88 others. The bill currently only has 79 co-sponsors--not to mention that Rangel aint one of them.
To Conyers' credit, he would have pursued a more aggressive course of action against the Bush Cartel if the Pelosi/Hoyer cartel held justice as a higher priority than poilitical ambition.
Democratic Party "leadership" has been a massive failure to the people of this country. I will alway detest republicans, but I will always distrust democrats.
Too bad Coinyers didn't show the same vigor in fighting Pelosi over impeachment. Watch as Pelosi tries to stop HR 676, which is what her job is--Don't allow anything to become law that actually helps US commonfolk.
karlof1, at least she's not stomping on Conyers on this one. He's running around in Congress raising Hell.
When the people fear their government there is tyranny,
when the government fears the people there is liberty.
~ Thomas Jefferson
they can't stomp conyers on this one. this is a set-up. this is the opening act of theatrics 101 in Congress, where "good guy" tries very publicly to get a hearing on something popular. Much fighting ensues, bill dies the usual death. Everyone shrugs their shoulders and says "we tried". We vote for them all over again two years later.
I suppose it's consoling knowing that even Pelosi and Co. know that just smashing the option down cold like impeachment would be radically unpopular with even the milder Democrats of the base (which these days is most of them). But this is still kabuki.
I'm actually in that shitbag Ben Nelson's state, and his staff has the permanent "ignore" button pressed for anyone supporting public healthcare of any kind. He also knows he'll get away with it.
I guess it's fine to encourage the actors to play their roles and all--it's not like we have many immediate choices--but don't get too giddy even if hearings are conceded. These jokers are masters at screwing the American people and blaming it on each other.
I think Conyers tipped his hand here by yakking about how he could "stand losing" a vote; I suspect that's precisely the plan.
Jacksonian
Jacksonian
"What kind of Democratic Congress is this?" EXACTLY.
Virtually every poll taken on the single payer issue for the last I don't know how many years shows the people want this!
A lot of "juice" is keeping people from discussing it in a meaningful way, including the mainstream media.
This sounds too much like the tag team "mutt and jeff" thing. We, the people, are allowed to have a representative democracy as long as money runs it routinely into the ground.
Well, they just made the asshole in Peru back down. Maybe we can have democracy here in the U.S. too.
BDS
Boycott-Divest-Sanction
Yeah, they did, because it got big nasty. That's usually what it takes. But that story's far from over. Elites want those resources, and they'll find a way to get them. They just need to do a better job of hiding the bodies. As for the Amazonian indigenous, they need to train up, because that one is going into fisticuffs overdrive.
Universal Single Payer Health Care has other advantages, beside throwing off the Insurance Parasites ala Thidwick the Big-Hearted Moose, and that is, the same congress that is responsible for the health of it's voting puplic also regulates the poisoning of the public via the EPA. America would soon have the same environmental rules as the rest of the civilized world. A healthy country is a happy country!
Otherwise, We-The-People will exercise our rights under the Declaration of Independence to throw off this Corporate Tyrany (and any of their elected toadies) and live again as Free Men and Women!
"I don't mind losing a debate or losing the vote, but Jesus Christ don't tell me that my proposal is off the table before we start, without even a hearing," Conyers said.
---------------------------
Talk about putting one on a tee!
Mr. Conyers, you and that f*ng table were best friends from 06' to 08'.
You made damn sure that that table remained famously unused.
You CHOSE Pelosi and party over oath to office.
You CHOSE to throw away ALL your credibility.
And now you wonder why the Wax Man and Wrangler laugh at you?
Even thieves demand loyalty.
Why in the world would anyone stand behind you and follow your lead?
Didn't you know that 676 would end up paying the price for your inexcusable behavior?
It's clear that the insurance companies will have to be killed with a stake through their heart ...
It is also very clear that we need Public Funded Campaigns and Elections ....
As long as these lobbies hold the contribution club very little in Progressive Goals will be accomplished ...
Americans must begin to apply appropriate labels to what is going on . . .
It's Campaign finance BRIBERY --
It's Corporate-press --
________________________________
BRIBERY in DC is at such high levels that it encompasses most of the time
of our Senators/Representatives -- and has become a self-feeding industry in
DC -- familial, dual party and highly protected.
We actually have presidential debates run by a PRIVATE corporation decided upon
by both parties.
Futher ---
While more and more Americans are turning off their TVs and turning to
alternative sources, they have to understand the depth of the betrayal --
our corporate-press has been very much involved in aiding and covering up
stolen elections by computer for decades.
There was concrete proof of this in 2000 with the John Ellis/Fox Network
switch of Florida from Gore to Bush.
Coincidentally, computers -- both those used by corporate-press and those
used for voting -- began coming in from mid to late-1960's. Even more
COINCIDENTALLY, around the time we passed the Voting Rights Act!
Needless to say, our corporate-press continues to NOT acknowledge the political
violence our nation has suffered over almost 50 years now!
We are being controlled by hierarchies ---
in fact, suicidal hierarchies --
Patriarchy::organized patriarchal religion::capitalism
They are one and the same -- FASCISM
.
"According to all myth, the female - not the male -- gives life"
Americans must begin to apply appropriate labels to what is going on . . .
It's Campaign finance BRIBERY --
It's Corporate-press --
________________________________
BRIBERY in DC is at such high levels that it encompasses most of the time
of our Senators/Representatives -- and has become a self-feeding industry in
DC -- familial, dual party and highly protected.
We actually have presidential debates run by a PRIVATE corporation decided upon
by both parties.
Futher ---
While more and more Americans are turning off their TVs and turning to
alternative sources, they have to understand the depth of the betrayal --
our corporate-press has been very much involved in aiding and covering up
stolen elections by computer for decades.
There was concrete proof of this in 2000 with the John Ellis/Fox Network
switch of Florida from Gore to Bush.
Coincidentally, computers -- both those used by corporate-press and those
used for voting -- began coming in from mid to late-1960's. Even more
COINCIDENTALLY, around the time we passed the Voting Rights Act!
Needless to say, our corporate-press continues to NOT acknowledge the political
violence our nation has suffered over almost 50 years now!
We are being controlled by hierarchies ---
in fact, suicidal hierarchies --
Patriarchy::organized patriarchal religion::capitalism
They are one and the same -- FASCISM
"According to all myth, the female - not the male -- gives life"
"What kind of a Democratic congress is this?" he asked.
The type that refuses to impeach a president for crimes against the peace.
Impeachment, Mr. Conyers? Remember impeachment? Mr. Conyers? I'd say Waxman knows you quite well.
In Ct, we know Dodd is bought and sold, how about John Larson,
a professional back slapper, is he with us or against us?
"What kind of a Democratic congress is this?" he asked.
The same......
Entitled
Secretive
Reckless
Deceptive
Indulgent
Calculating
Exploitive group of elitists they have been for decades!
Henry Waxman is a disappointment. I really thought he had more integrity.
The only thing that seems certain to pass is "the mandate," which is a euphemism for a very regressive tax collected from those who can not afford private insurance and from those who don't like to grossly overpay for things, for the benefit of...
For the benefit of who? This question is supposedly being discussed right now. Since they want to get the money from the new tax, the incredibly rich private insurance industry is throwing their money around in Congress to prevent any true public insurance option from emerging.
The one thing that appears to be certain, "the mandate," is the one thing that is almost guaranteed to make the system worse for those it directly effects and no better for those it does not directly effect.
As long as you are relatively young, healthy, eat healthy, keep some level of physical fitness, and in general practice good "preventive medicine," then in a depression economy you are economically better off if you do not buy the way overpriced private insurance, even if you can afford it.
Of course, you could possibly be that one in 100,000 people who has an unusual disease even while young, but I'm just speaking as an economist here, and as someone observing the World's most dysfunctional and expensive health system.
By saving the money, in effect you are buying insurance against homelessness. Whereas there may be no real option in the event of homelessness, in the extremely unlikely event of a health emergency, you can go to a hospital emergency department. Most hospitals have to provide emergency care to anyone right now, although some have been caught cheating. If you can't pay the resulting huge bill, you can file bankruptcy.
This may be disrupted by "the mandate." If someone can not or will not pay "the mandate," it seems likely that the hospitals will no longer provide as much care in the emergency department to the "deadbeat" as they do now to the uninsured, and possibly not any at all.
I mean, it's an open question right now: if someone is caught with no insurance card at all, are they to be denied any and all care?
If someone does pay "the mandate" and then becomes homeless as a result, I can virtually guarantee you that the net effect on the person's actual health will be negative.
To simplify and conclude, if anything other than single payer emerges, which seems a certainty, to the extent the system does change, it appears it will be changing for the worse. To even talk about anything other than single payer is pathetic actually.
Don't pin your hopes on Conyers. Or any members of the Democratic Party.
So, will we ever see single payer?
“I’m afraid not,” Angell says. “The lobbies are so powerful that the Congress will come up with small little expansions and they’ll celebrate it as though it’s a big deal. They’ll arrange for some more people to get coverage, costs will go up, it’ll be said to be a big deal.”
--Marcia Angell
http://www.singlepayeraction.org/blog/?p=929
It's time to get independent from the Democrats.
"As soon as the left realizes that the Democrats are not on their side, it becomes much clearer and easier to start to work to build the political power on the left that we need. The key is not to tip-toe around the edges of the Democrats. The key is not to ally with the Democrats. The key is to go straight after the Democrats and try to take from them the power they hold by pretending to support progressive ideals. When you realize that we must hurt the Democrats to build our own politial power, and when you are ok with that because you realize the Democrats are not on our side, then the sorts of actions and campaigns we need to be raising become much clearer.
My suggestion would be that we try to run independent campaigns in 2010 where the Democrats are most vulnerable. Any congressional seat that the Democrats won by a small margin on Obama's coattails in 2008 should be a target for a strong anti-war, pro-worker, anti-wall street opposition campaign.
We might not be able to win those races ourselves. But we can make the Democrats lose. We can put into danger their majority in Congress. We can probably also cost them a Senate seat or two.
When we develop and display the power to inflict pain on the Democrats, we'll discover that they will become much more interested in actually supporting our issues. Do you think they'd have diss'd Single Payer in this health care debate if they knew as a lock-tight certainty that an angry left would cost them their majority in the House?
We need to show them that we can hurt them. My feeling is that what the left needs to do is to try to kick the Democrats in the nuts as hard as we can in 2010. Maybe that will get their attention. If not, we start planning on how to kick them even harder in 2012."
--Marc Shuler
http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/21664#12075
HURRAY for JOHN CONYERS!!!
"Rangel and Waxman were co-sponsors last year."
Isn't it funny what happens when you are in power and standing up for Single Payer would mean something. Tells you all you want to know about the intestinal fortitude of these two......(and some others)
There will never be any true changes made until the entire political system has been handed over to the 'people' of the USA. This will require the surrender by big business--in the case of Health Care--the Insurance Industry--of the control over the political process and the politicians----and they will not surrender without a struggle.
Until the American people make the necessary changes in their political process--eliminating the influence and control of the lobbyists, and big business---they will suffer at the hands of those who control all of the political decisions which impact their daily lives, health, wealth and security; 'big business'. 'They' have been in control from the beginning and 'they' will not give it up easily.
The Insurance Industry would fall to such a low level on the "business food chain" that they would spend and do whatever it takes to stay in control-----they already control the minds of many of those whom they hold in "captivity"---much like the 'slave master' holds the 'slave'. The 'slave' is convinced that he could not hope to survive without the 'slave master'----so resistance is held at a minimum. If the 'slave' steps out of line---he is made an example of--and the other slaves take notice---and follow the 'master'..........
Americans, their politicians and presidents and even most of their Doctors and other professinals are slaves to their masters---'Big Business'-------------the "slave masters of them all"-----------
Politicians/Presidents/Kings and Queens/Emperors/ Party Chairmen ----they are all simply 'prostitutes who perform the services for those who pay'---
American can change the system---or outbid the others---but nothing will change until the control system is changed.
Good Luck America, you really need it.
America for the people died long ago folks. It's AMERICA INC. now and the top 1% own all the stock in it. Voting is just for window dressing.
So, Henry Waxman supported the bill last year, while not this year, and what other differences are there between these two years that might tell us a little about why he's made this drastically contrasting switch? Hey, last year was the Bush-Cheney administration and Waxman likely figured that that administration would make sure that the bill would not get passed, or if it did, then the passage would be curbed, one way or another.
Today, with the Obama administration seeming to be authentically planning some real health care system reform(s), maybe Waxman figures it's become too risky to continue his [act] of (pretending to) support the bill.
Perhaps that's not the real reason for this switch he's otherwise inexplicably making, but it's very likely the reason. And based on some articles I read over the past few or several years, Waxman apparently (and credibly) is associated with corporatists, etcetera; and it's just that that is something about him that either (and also apparently) relatively few people know about, or at least know and inform others about.
This is not the first time that Waxman has politically conducted himself in [rotten] ways. I forget what the other cases I had read about were or are, but there were at least two or three instances since 2003; and (I think) all were GWoT-related matters.
God, welcome back to progressivism John Conyers. We missed you.
"WASHINGTON — Senate Democrats are offering to scrap a controversial government-sponsored health insurance provision in an effort to win more than a dozen moderate and conservative Republican votes to extend health care coverage to nearly 46 million uninsured Americans.
Sen. Max Baucus , D- Mont. , the chairman of the Finance Committee , signaled his willingness Thursday to compromise to attract enough GOP support to pass the legislation in the Senate this summer with as many as 70 votes."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, Baucus and the Republicans are going to give Big Insurance "taxing rights" on the American Public. As it is now, one third or our health care costs goes to the Big Insurance 'overhead' like pornographic salaries and bonuses. Now our elected officials are lining up (and lining their pockets) with the corporations to slit the throat of the American citizens and lift their purse. What a fine bunch of road agents they all are. When the Corporations start 'taxing' We-The-People how are we represented? Do we select the Corporate Execs and the Boards of Directors? We have all been through this Taxation Without Representation business before. We no longer have an elected government due to bribery and corruption - we have Corporate Tyrany! We have the right and duty to overthrow Tyrany in our founding document, the Declaration of Independence! It is better to live and die as Free Men and Women than grovel as corporate slaves!
Best regards, Publius
"in an effort to win more than a dozen moderate and conservative Republican votes.."
Baucus is praciticing the art of "pragmatism" he and the rest of the Democrats are learning from the master.
Bring America Back !!!!.......and while you're at it, Mr Conyers, if you are throwing barbs around, hook some in at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue to a guy named "cave-in" Obama, who backs down to Big Med , Big Pharma, Big AMA, & Big HMO !!
****There's only a ghost of a President over there we voted for to bring us Major radical healthcare reforms, and to break thru the DC culture of corruption.
New and Improved health care. So who's writing this bill? By the time the insurance lobbyists are finished writing it Baucus can get 100% Senate support for it. They won't stop until this corpse AKA the taxpayer is picked clean. I can hardly believe that my vote for change turned into a huge stinking fish so fast. All I can see of Obama is his rear end running at top speed from every promise he ever made.
Serves me right for taking a chance on Obama. I should have known when he signed that bill loaded with earmarks he had no intention of holding Congress's feet to the fire. So we've elected a coward to the White House and returned a den of thieves to Congress. Now what? Is it time for the revolution?
When the people fear their government there is tyranny,
when the government fears the people there is liberty.
~ Thomas Jefferson
Are we at the point where we have to stop paying our taxes, en masse? How does one go about such action, does anyone have some insight on this? I wouldn't mind paying into an escrow account or paying the equivalent to some charity.
Personally I do not enjoy supporting these fascists, torturers and thieves with my tax dollars.