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TechnoratiFox News "War Games" the Coming Civil War
Bill Clinton's election in 1992 gave rise to the American "militia movement": hordes of overwhelmingly white, middle-aged men from suburban and rural areas who convinced themselves they were defending the American way of life from the "liberals" and "leftists" running the country by dressing up in military costumes on weekends, wobbling around together with guns, and play-acting the role of patriot-warriors. Those theater groups -- the cultural precursor to George Bush's prancing 2003 performance dressed in a fighter pilot outfit on Mission Accomplished Day -- spawned the decade of the so-called "Angry White Male," the movement behind the 1994 takeover of the U.S. Congress by Newt Gingrich and his band of federal-government-cursing, play-acting-tough-guy, pseudo-revolutionaries.
What was most remarkable about this allegedly "anti-government" movement was that -- with some isolated and principled exceptions -- it completely vanished upon the election of Republican George Bush, and it stayed invisible even as Bush presided over the most extreme and invasive expansion of federal government power in memory. Even as Bush seized and used all of the powers which that movement claimed in the 1990s to find so tyrannical and unconstitutional -- limitless, unchecked surveillance activities, detention powers with no oversight, expanding federal police powers, secret prison camps, even massively exploding and debt-financed domestic spending -- they meekly submitted to all of it, even enthusiastically cheered it all on.
They're the same people who embraced and justified full-scale, impenetrable federal government secrecy and comprehensive domestic spying databases conducted in the dark and against the law when perpetrated by a Republican President -- but have spent the last week flamboyantly pretending to be scandalized and outraged by the snooping which Bill Moyers did 45 years ago (literally) as part of a Democratic administration. They're the people who relentlessly opposed and impugned Clinton's military deployments and then turned around and insisted that only those who are anti-American would question or oppose Bush's decision to start wars.
They're the same people who believed that Bill Clinton's use of the FISA court to obtain warrants to eavesdrop on Americans was a grave threat to liberty, but believed that George Bush's warrantless eavesdropping on Americans in violation of the law was a profound defense of freedom. In sum, they dressed up in warrior clothing to fight against Bill Clinton's supposed tyranny, and then underwent a major costume change on January 20, 2001, thereafter dressing up in cheerleader costumes to glorify George Bush's far more extreme acquisitions of federal power.
In doing so, they revealed themselves as motivated by no ideological principles or political values of any kind. It was a purely tribalistic movement motivated by fear of losing its cultural and demographic supremacy. In that sense -- the only sense that mattered -- George Bush was one of them, even though, with his actions, he did everything they long claimed to fear and despise. Nonetheless, his mere occupancy of the White House was sufficient to pacify them and convert them almost overnight from limited-government militants into foot soldiers supporting the endless expansion of federal government power.
But now, only four weeks into the presidency of Barack Obama, they are back -- angrier and more chest-beating than ever. Actually, the mere threat of an Obama presidency was enough to revitalize them from their eight-year slumber, awaken them from their camouflaged, well-armed suburban caves. The disturbingly ugly atmosphere that marked virtually every Sarah Palin rally had its roots in this cultural resentment, which is why her fear-mongering cultural warnings about his exotic, threatening otherness -- he's a Muslim-loving, Terrorist-embracing, Rev.-Wright-following Marxist: who is the real Barack Obama? -- resonated so stingingly with the rabid lynch mobs that cheered her on.
With Obama now actually in the Oval Office -- and a financial crisis in full force that is generating the exact type of widespread, intense anxiety that typically inflames these cultural resentments -- their mask is dropping, has dropped, and they've suddenly re-discovered their righteous "principles." The week-long CNBC Revolt of the Traders led by McCain voter Rick Santelli and the fledgling little Tea Party movement promoted by the Michelle Malkins of the world are obvious outgrowths of this 1990s mentality, now fortified by the most powerful fuel: deep economic fear. But as feisty and fire-breathing as those outbursts are, nothing can match -- for pure, illustrative derangement -- the discussion below from Glenn Beck's new Fox show this week, in which he and an array of ex-military and CIA guests ponder (and plot and plan) "war games" for the coming Civil War against Obama-led tyranny. It really has to be seen to be believed.
Before presenting that to you, a few caveats are in order: There is nothing inherently wrong or illegitimate with citizens expressing extreme anger towards the Government and the ruling political class. There isn't even anything wrong or illegitimate with citizens organizing themselves into a movement that -- whether by design or effect -- is threatening to entrenched elites. If anything, we've had too little of that. In fact, it's only a complete lack of fear of a meek, passive and impotent citizenry on the part of political and financial rulers -- a certainty that there will be no consequences no matter what they do -- that could have given rise to the endless corruption, deceit, lawbreaking, destruction, and outright thievery of the last eight years. A political and financial elite that perceives itself as invulnerable from threat or consequence will inevitably vest itself with more power and more riches. That's what we've had and, largely, still have.
But this Rush-Limbaugh/Fox-News/nationalistic movement isn't driven by anything noble or principled or even really anything political. If it were, they would have been extra angry and threatening and rebellious during the Bush years instead of complicit and meek and supportive to the point of cult-like adoration. Instead, they're just basically Republican dead-enders (at least what remains of the regional/extremist GOP), grounded in tribal allegiances that are fueled by their cultural, ethnic and religious identities and by perceived threats to past prerogatives -- now spiced with legitimate economic anxiety and an African-American President who, they were continuously warned for the last two years, is a Marxist, Terrorist-sympathizing black nationalist radical who wants to re-distribute their hard-earned money to welfare queens and illegal immigrants (and is now doing exactly that).
That's the context for this Glenn Beck "War Games" show on Fox News this week -- one promoted, with some mild and obligatory caveats, by Michelle Malkin's Hot Air. In the segment below, he convened a panel that includes former CIA officer Michael Scheuer and Ret. U.S. Army Sgt. Major Tim Strong. They discuss a coming "civil war" led by American "Bubba" militias -- Beck says he "believes we're on this road" -- and they contemplate whether the U.S. military would follow the President's orders to subdue civil unrest or would instead join with "the people" in defense of their Constitutional rights against the Government (they agree that the U.S. military would be with "the people"):
They don't seem very interested in bipartisanship and in transcending ideological divisions.
Immediately prior to that segment, Fox viewers were warned (as usual) that the unruly, uncivilized, violent Muslims are coming, and only Benjamin Netanyahu will be able to subdue them with a massive attack:
In one sense, all of this drooling rage is nothing more than the familiar face of extreme right-wing paranoia, as Richard Hofstadter famously described 45 years ago:
The paranoid spokesman sees the fate of conspiracy in apocalyptic terms—he traffics in the birth and death of whole worlds, whole political orders, whole systems of human values. He is always manning the barricades of civilization. He constantly lives at a turning point. Like religious millenialists he expresses the anxiety of those who are living through the last days and he is sometimes disposed to set a date fort the apocalypse. (“Time is running out,” said Welch in 1951. “Evidence is piling up on many sides and from many sources that October 1952 is the fatal month when Stalin will attack.”)
But it's now inflamed by declining imperial power, genuine economic crises, an exotic Other occupying the White House, and potent technology harnessed by right-wing corporations such as Fox News to broadcast and disseminate it widely and continuously. At the very least, it's worth taking note of. And I wonder what would happen if MSNBC broadcast a similar discussion of leftists plotting and planning the imminent, violent Socialist Revolution against the U.S. Government.
147 Comments so far
Show AllAll I can say is ... spare a thought for people in other countries who have read this and watched the videos.
It's frightening to know that there is a nation in the world that is so wealthy, so powerful, so militarised and so sure of its right to police the world that it's perfectly 'normal' to air programs like this on national TV.
Unfortunately, as a citizen of one of America's allies, all I can hope for is that we don't get dragged down into your paranoid Civil War II if it ever happens ... just as we get dragged into all your other wars.
I'd just like to say, and I don't care who doesn't like it, that all you have to do is take one look at the guy on the tv monitor, as we all did scrolling down the article, and it should be enough to gag. Who in their right mind would ever listen to anything someone like that might say? And anyone who says you can't judge a book by it's cover is a fool when the cover looks like that.
Peace
When does this play acting cross over to pure and simple treason?
what strikes me most in the first video is the first 'expert's' statement about 95% tax rates to pay for the 'money we've already spent.' this is a lie. if the stimulus money is spent honestly, the resulting increase in real production will far more than pay for the stimulus. anyone who's done Econ 101 knows this. the 'expert' is worse than a liar, he's a tory.
i didn't watch the second video. i can't vomit more than once a day.
Bring America Back !!!! Ingenius analysis here by Sir Glen Greenwald.
*Just one more reason I am nominating Greenwald to become a sitting member of the Commission on Truth, Senator Leahy's Judiciary Committee panel !!!!
***But are we saying Clinton's Attorney General Janet Reno should not have authorized incendiary devices against the Davidians at Waco, Texas, or to have sent Jackboot Swat Armed Troops into the home of the Cuban Gonzalez child in Miami, Fla ????, to kidnap him ???
***Lets see, Clinton......now that name does sound familiar, don't it !!
***(As in===well, we'll just Obliterate those darn Iranians !!!!) end quote !
Civil War, you say,.......hmmmm!!
Amen! It is tribalism at its innermost core! Beautiful analysis!
If any groups specifically stated that they hated Jews or white Americans in general and wanted to wage a war against Jews and whites in general, they would have their bank accounts seized immediately (al qaida).
But if a group hates blacks and liberals, they are entertained as possible legitimate groups of concerned citizens. They are discussed as if they are heroes from a long lost era of American greatness.
It makes me sick to my stomach.
How can terrorism only apply when you hate and wish to kill certian US citizens (Jews and whites) but not others? Black American citizens are threatened every day by racist domestic terrorists who spread hateful lies about them and form organizations to oppose them. I say the US gov should sieze every racist militia's assets and give the money to the United Negro College Fund.
"I say the US gov should sieze every racist militia's assets and give the money to the United Negro College Fund."
I second that idea.
Agreement with one commenter that CD has really become
a well of negativity. For the one who needs a daily dose of
pessimism and separatism. That is the reason why I have
restrained my Self lately from joining the crowd getting all
excited about 'what the others do'.
Before I convey my take on this I would like to point out some
similarities to a movement in Germany starting in the Twenties
and ending in 1945. The 'Brown-Shirts' or Sturmabteilung,
abbreviated 'SA'. As a native German the similarities not only
in talk, but more so in intend are striking to me.
Glenn Beck indeed would have had a brilliant career with the
Nazis. As opportunist as one can be he would have decorated
the place next to Hitler with his infamy. We still call people of
his ilk 'Demagogues' for very good reasons.
Fortunately this is the 21st century and the futility of militarism,
both the home style one through guns, or the national one
through the armed forces, becomes apparent to the majority
of people on the planet.
As much as You cannot eat money, You can't eat guns either.
So here is my take on this:
Meditation, Meditation and more Meditation. Why? Because
only in the stillness of the mind lies the possibility of raising
one's 'vibrational frequency'. Sure there are still people out
there who believe the Universe and Earth were handcrafted
by a big militarist god in six days. A role model that has brought
human mankind to the brink of extinction.
In opposition to this belief there is rock solid proof for a world
based on vibrational frequency. It is called 'Quantum Physics'
and explains our existence based on Energy in its various
states of appearance. Whereas unconditional love has the
potential to give supernatural powers, the opposite frequency
that is so carelessly spread by Beck et al, will ultimately lead
to destruction. The Brown-Shirts did not survive personally
and their survived philosophy is doomed to extinction.
Fear mongers create their own demise. A human being that
is aware of the principles of interdependence and the huge
potential of positive intend has nothing to fear. Fear is an
illusion, abused by the powers to achieve their selfish goals.
It would indeed serve the community of humans eager to see
long lasting change, for CD to come up with a section that is
entirely dedicated to the good news 'out there' and there are
always more good news than bad ones. The question is, do
we want to do well, or do we want to suffer? Out of suffering
comes more suffering, out of good comes more good. Easy.
To conclude, I am not at all worried about all the wanna be
Brown Shirts 'out there'. They are digging their own nameless
graves. As there is proof, that collective positive intend shows
the desired results, there is equally proof for the results for
collective negative intend.
It is entirely our choice on which side we want to be. The rest
will be managed by Energy. Remember my words when the
first Category 8 Hurricane pays those 'militias' a visit.
May All Beings Be Blessed.
No Restrictions Or Limitations Shall Apply.
Peace
"Meditation, Meditation and more Meditation"
Maybe Meditation, Mediation and more Medication.
Try "Yes!" or "Ode" magazines for happy shiny feel good stories...
Some folks find value in knowing the horrors and negativity one finds in articles and comments here on CD...
They are less likely to be fooled by the continuation of horrors packaged to look like hope & change...
I don't think it's a question of wanting happy shiny feel good stories or being fooled, at least not with those of us on here. If you've found your way to CD, registered, and are posting, you are not being as fooled as 90% of the population (yes, I pulled that number out of my arse).
It's more a question of, "What are you going to do about it?" One option is to fret, bicker, and vilify those with dissenting views, often treating them as an evil "other" and painting them with unrealistically broad strokes. We see black-and-white right wingers do that way too often.
An alternative is to reach out and make connections--to everyone. Connect here. Connect in your community. Connect with like-minded folks. Connect people you disagree with. These face-to-face (or keyboard-to-keyboard) connections are where real change happens. It doesn't mean you have to compromise your views or split the difference, but it means you acknowledge and celebrate the humanity of all, even those whose opinions are diametrically opposed to yours.
Thanks, that's the core message I wanted to convey. Negativity
is of course as well a question of judgment. For most right wing
people I am 'negative', because I don't buy into their la-la-land.
Yet I do my best to stay focused on what I want to see, or I deem
to be changed to the better. For me it indeed feels good that the
Israeli massacre on the Gaza children has stopped. I envisioned
that, even though I was outraged in the first place.
To accept that CD is a sole forum for the publication of what's
wrong, with comments on how to see it, or to argue about it, might
be feasible, it is not what I envision.
To have gathered people with a critical or educated mindset and
to not make use of the enormous potential those minds constitute
in their local environments is a waste in my eyes.
It reduces the energy on these boards to mere disagreement of
the establishment without tapping those brains and using them to
propel the change we need so urgently.
Staying positive is not a weakness, it is courage and I will keep on
dreaming for a section on CD to funnel those exceptional minds
with their exceptional views into practical local grass roots levels.
Glenn leaves out one crucial aspect of the neo-fascist mindset---they love anything authoritarian. This, more than anything else, explains why they looked the other way on Bush's spending and enlarging of government.
They love anything authoritarian as long as it's controlled by the Right. The might have actually enjoyed living in Nazi Germany.
I am sorry to say my son has gotten caught up in this sick movement! And has been in it for almost 20 years now. He has become such a virulent person from all the hate rhetoric. I no longer know him. He no longer speaks to my husband or I either one. I assume we are the enemy as far as he is concerned. We are moderate conservatives who see where these people are destroying this country!
Sorry about your son. Just curious though, who did you vote for?
I feel sorry for your son and wish him and you and your husband lots of luck. Unfortunately, both sides are engaged in too much partisan quarreling which started with the Nixon goons back in the 1960s and escalated starting with Reagan in 1980. Until more of us learn to give up the sick corporate media and stop relying on them, I'm afraid we've got more tough rides ahead of us. I learned this lesson the hard way when I used to keep relying on them. You have to reframe the debates so that in time your son will come for you. I know the feeling and I see a lot of these kinds of divisions between parents and children out in my state.
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
gnken
All I can say is that these so called Patriotic Militia's want to form and attack our Govt. then they are the ones who are forming Organizations "Who want to attempt to overthrow the Government". I believe that question is on every Government application for employment and the Military. So if Fox News and these fear mongering radio talk show host and by the way most of there listeners have no life anyways, want to from and start a movement. Then not to quote the former President, but "Then bring it on". I will fight for America, and if they want Civil War the I will fight for America but not one these goof ball Conservative types want, to the end. "God Bless America"
What is the matter with This Beck fellow !!!!!
When was the last time a non European country attacked a Europe country in its homeland?
Name one none European country in the world that was never attacked and pillaged by a Western European power.
Physical enslavement ,financial enslavement Language stripped Religion stripped, taught to hate themselves, continental Genocide of indigenous Nations including the whole Psychological melt down of most None Europeans peoples
We forgive you and your Evil sadistic types Beck, but the decent civilized humans of the planet are going to make certain you type will never be able to perpetuate this mayhem against humanity again
Beck ....You must truly be a tortured soul!!!!
Albert Einstein althrough it is not discussed much, was a socialist.
He wrote an essay in the 40's entitled "Why Socialism".
Here is a link to the essay: http://www.monthlyreview.org/598einstein.php
jeffj
Glenn you crazy SOB. Have they implanted a chip into the remnants of your brain or has your doc changed your meds. Perhaps your just another who' for the monied classes who live in mortal fear that America will one day live up to its creed. Regardless, it's time to put some of those squirrels running amok inside your ample cranium back into their cages. You will be happy to know, at least, real socialists like myself, are no longer content with the traditional armaments of left wing resistance in America.... pies, water ballons, pudding, and long and pointless organizational meetings. We have discovered and embraced the second amendment. I'm in the market for reliable, domestically manufactured guns, you know, to start a collection. Anyway, Glenn your commentaries are consistently treasonous, and remarkably incoherent. Most enjoyable.Gotta run Glenn, but you are one crazy dude. Happy squirrel hunting.
Semper veritas, J
PS. When has the miltary ever sided with the people? Read some history, Glenn. They have NEVER hesitated to fire on the working class and powerless.
You might want to clarify that you're talking about Glenn Beck, not Glenn Greenwald who wrote the article :-)
America has been in a state of undeclared civil war ever since the Republicans stole the 2000 election.
I can't figure it any other way. Stealing an election is not a dirty trick. It is an act of war. In a non-comatose republic, Republicans and Democrats would be fighting in the streets right now.
Fortunately, the Repubs are too stupid to realize what they did, and the Democrats are too meek to confront it. The fact remains--these people intend to destroy us.
Myst
Revolution? Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,hahaha, ha. You got to be delusional. This is all bar room talk.
Figures. Hardcore Naderites such as yourself provide more than enough fodder for the Faux Noise network. My wife may have voted for Nader but even she wonders why folks such as yourself are hell bent on turning more people away from Nader than towards him. Sure, go ahead and laugh at me for voting for Obama and regretting it. There were somethings I didn't quite anticipate but you would much rather imitate the typical "personal responsibility blah-blah-blah" conservative and say "well, you're a dumb voter and it's your fault, blah blah blah. You should have voted for Nader." Is that why your man flunked miserably on election day?
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
Still another Nader hater comically fixated on Ralph as THE focal point for all that's wrong, anywhere, everywhere. My god, where do these people come from? This article has NOTHING to do with Nader, but it could be about oceanography, the Civil War or crocheting and this fool would find some way to rant about Nader as the deep cause behind it all, whatever it is. Get to a psychiatrist quick, Terrance. The continuing existence of Nader has left you quite undone.
It's too bad you didn't read my post or you would have realized that I wasn't a Nader hater. You're the one who needs to see a psychiatrist, sir. And as others have pointed out, you're blind support of Nader just because he's not a Democrat is what screwed his chances.
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
I didn't vote for Nader this time, though I did twice before, and excuse me but I don't need a psychiatrist because I can notice your obsession with Nader as some evil entity who has spoiled your dreams of whatever utopia you dream of. So my "blind support of Nader" exists only in your fevered imagination. It's your own blind and raging obsession with anyone who has supported Nader that makes you a decidedly irrational character and in need of psychological-political intervention.
"because I can notice your obsession with Nader as some evil entity who has spoiled your dreams of whatever utopia you dream of."
Like I said, you didn't even read my posts or you wouldn't be mistaking me as "obsessed with hating Nader". Does it get through your thick skull that some people like Nader's ideas but don't like the way Nader tries to go after the problem in the wrong way? Of course not, but then again, since you're hallucinating and calling us Nader haters, you really do need to see a psychologist and psychiatrist. Besides, your rightwing warmongering is showing.
"It's your own blind and raging obsession with anyone who has supported Nader that makes you a decidedly irrational character and in need of psychological-political intervention."
Nowhere did I indicate such obsession. In fact, I've met people who have voted for Nader but don't act as rightwingish as you. No wonder you "lefties" never win. But go ahead. Join your buddies such as Red Rick and attack because you're nothing more than a divider and the reason we're stuck with conservatives. You don't know me.
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
You certainly don't know me, you fucking yokel. You're really too ignorant to reply to, if you think that defending others' right to vote for or support Nader makes one a "rightwinger". It was you who were banging on about how stupid it is to vote for Nader, not me. But somehow that makes you far more of a real leftist than me! And I'm acting "rightwingish" by saying how tiresome it is to constantly encounter clowns like yourself who can't get enough of bashing Nader, even if you say it's because of "the way Nader tries to go after the problem in the wrong way." According to you, but of course you know absolutely everything there is to know about the "right way" he should go about it. So you agree with many of his ideas but vilify him for "going about it all wrong." And again, you clearly imply that it's Nader's (and my) fault that "we're stuck with conservatives." Sorry Terrance, but I'd say you're "nothing more" than an ignoramus running on his hamster wheel.
"I'd say you're "nothing more" than an ignoramus running on his hamster wheel."
Speak for yourself. You really do need a psychiatrist and a psychologist to help you out. In the meantime, go grab yourself another beer and steak and cool your nerves.
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
Terrance and Ephraim,
Both of you are acting so childish and need to STOP this fighting. I've seen posts from both of you and I notice that you both actually have a lot in common. It would be nice if both of you put aside your differences and actually engaged in a constructive discussion rather than calling each other names and spewing all that hate talk. Terrence, nobody on this site wants Obama to fail. Obama is screwing up and bringing failure on himself by pandering to the GOP when he has no business doing so and the electorate made it crystal clear that they want real change, not chump change. Look, Ephraim and I reluctantly voted for Obama but that doesn't mean we have no right to discuss his weaknesses and what needs to be done to correct him. If you're happy that Obama's won and is selling us out, then please leave. Ephraim, there's no use in trying to teach some people grammar and spelling skills on this website. The educational system is broken beyond repair and needs to be rebuilt first and foremost. You and I put up with rightwing lunatics everyday and trying to teach them manners and etiquette is like trying to teach pigs to sing. Try to find some common ground with those folks and then slowly talk them out of their madness if you want to be surrounded by better folks out there. I hope you two apologize to each other and make up ! This kind of quarreling is why I'm getting less interested in reading let alone posting on here.
Ephraim,
As one who knows might I suggest that the only thing good about talking to these stooges is when you stop doing so.....
I really cannot fathom why the administration of this place allows these children to ride roughshod over all attempts at adult conversation?
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so." Bertrand Russell
Red Rick,
Quarreling like this is quite common on these forums. This is why I'm not really taking these comments too seriously as most of them are useless to begin with. Having gone through Ephraim and TMinSD's posts, I realize that both of them have a lot in common than either one of them realize. I don't believe that banning and exluding people will solve anything. We're just gonna have to find better ways to reform one another and put our petty differences aside.
If the purpose of ones posting was constructive then I would concur with your assessment that we should seek common ground. However, if you still read the tripe these three mouth breathers post then you know full well they are either bored High Schoolers seeking entertainment or simply trolls of the first order. Either way they bring nothing useful to this forum.
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so." Bertrand Russell
Awww, poor "Ardee" still wants to fight. Listen LOSER. You, Ephraim, and the rest of the Limbaugh dittoheads posing as "Nader/Mckinney supporters" are the ones who can't stop fighting. I know you're depressed and bored. Tell you what. I'll return you to your boring life and leave you alone. Gotta go back and keep helping them locals while you rot like a fat slob, LOSER.
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
A model post and one that fully discloses your complete uselessness in any political or even adult discussion...Keep it up.
Whom do you think you fool with your boast of community service? One like you cannot possibly be useful to anyone or any cause. You see, lacking a brain as you apparently do, what could be made of your "help"?
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so." Bertrand Russell
Hey Red,
You are right. This guy is imho, obviously like joeshope, a paid neocon troll. The sole purpose of it constantly posting is to devolve the conversation. The conversation is about overthrowing Big Brother. The troll, no doubt is off topic with Ralph Nader.
Although I could be wrong, however, because I don't know what the troll said; when I see it's name, I skip it's post and resume reading at the next post.
Cheers,
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
Great advice and I have adopted similar strategies of late.
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so." Bertrand Russell
Yeah "ardee". A crybaby like you who gets kicked out for being a foul mouth loser just can't define "adults", can he? Loser.
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
I fail to see how you derive all that you note above from a one line post, one that doesnt mention the name Nader.
It isnt that difficult to see why many folks would think an actual violent revolution in this nation is not possible, though I think all things possible myself. The laughter you consider so personal was seemingly directed, not at Obama voters, or you personally , but at the thought of revolution. I would not seek to put words in that poster's mouth but I have noted a trend here among a few to make everything about Nader, silly really.
I have voted for Ralph on three occasions as his platform and agendas best suit my vision for this nation, that is, after all, my choice, even my duty. But politics is a far ranging subject and one note Nader bashing, or endless critique of his supporters, does nothing to make issues clearer and seems almost an avoidance of the deep and disturbing problems within the Democratic Party.
As to where responsibility lies; we live in a democratic republic thus the buck really does stop with the voter. All power resides with the people, whether they realize it or not. I do not criticize the loyalties of any voter, I would love to stick with the issues actually. If you work to make your party better then good for you, just as it is good for me to work towards a third party counterbalance to imperialism and economic slavery.
If you choose to respond, fine, but please do not bother to post diatribe, I have had more than enough from the few really stupid folks that inevitably interrupt the adults, distort the meaning of posts to suit their juvenile and poorly conceived views and satisfy a childish ego. I trust you will not be another such.
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so." Bertrand Russell
So wow did your one of 736,804 votes change anything? The rest of can't stay duped like this. You live in a world of delusion. If your party had any outreach during the campaign, I sure didn't see it, except for posts like yours, usually including a word like "idiot". Or your choice, "stupidity". And you're constantly saying that your vote for Nader was some big world changer. Like to explain what changed from YOUR vote? Or how you figure you're even changing third party chances for the better with yet another immature name-caller now attempting to straighten us all out, without having accomplished one damned thing yourselves? Nader's vote total in 2000 was 2.74%. This election, it was .52%. The internet wasn't supposed to be used by all of you to REDUCE Nader's votes!
Maybe all of you spend some time finding out about your "leader", then you can be actual spokespeople for him. Maybe you could all stop using the internet to repel votes from him. It's unconscionable that so many of you tanked Nader's vote total with your nonstop immaturity and ignorance.
Hi "Ardee". Nice to see you again. I see you got kicked out for being a foul mouth looney tune but decided to sign up under another alias. I could care less that you voted for Nader but obviously he has nothing to show for it. Maybe you could spend some time being his campaign manager for all your talk.
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
Alan MacDonald
Glenn, clearly, as you say, "A political and financial elite that perceives itself as invulnerable from threat or consequence will inevitably vest itself with more power and more riches" ---- and such a political economic ruling-elite is accurately described as an Empire.
Yes, a virtual empire has arisen in our country, but it has nothing to do with average Americans, whether they are white 'blue-collar' working-class, black 'white collar' working-class, Latino 'red-capped' services working-class, or bubba-style 'sweat bandana' construction working-class --- except for the aggregated fact that the ruling-elite 'corporate financial Empire' is screwing all of us.
Glenn, you are absolutely right that this tiny, ruling-elite Empire at the top of their unjust pyramid of economic and political power is now feeling, because of the change potential of a populist/progressive government with Obama, that they are "fortified by the most powerful fuel: deep economic fear" --- fear that they will, because of their extreme minority status as rich schemers, and because of the compelling and clear view that they have rigged and looted the commonwealth and all of us --- they fear for their ill-gotten wealth and status.
You see, I view this turning of events and fear exactly the opposite way, and for these reasons:
1. The tiny ruling-elite of billionaire wealth and CEO excess have already seen that the American people are turning against their hundred million dollar pay packages, their corporate jets, their homes too numerous to even remember how many they have, their abuse of workers, their 'gaming' of the system, their looting of the country, and their arrogant smugness.
2. The worst of these 'bad actor' elites have already been caught in unimaginable deceit and thievery, like Bernie Madoff, caught shipping jewels from his luxury town-house, like Allen Stamford collapsing complete countries with his phony Ponzi CD schemes, the bankster CEOs, the hedge fund whores, and the private equity pirates taking billions of 'our' government money and using it only to pad their escape.
3. Obama, through Executive Branch departments like IRS, Justice, and Treasury has already quietly instituted a clamp-down on ruling-elite theft and expropriation of wealth to other countries as elite escape routes, such as was done with pressuring UBS and the Swiss government crack-down on global stolen funds transfers.
Thus, Glenn, I strongly believe that the shoe (or rather the leg-irons) are precisely on the other foot --- the foot of the formerly ruling-elite imperialist looters, and that they already sense the cell doors slamming shut on them.
Obama is starting to look like the ruling-elite's worst nightmare since Napoleon.
In a global world, where are the Ponzi schemers and looting financial elite to hide?
Even the pirates in Somali waters are getting nabbed today.
These financial pirates may find that their only chance may be the mountainous Afghan northeastern territories with Osama --- but when he touches them with a sword; it won't be to knight them, like that phony, Sir Allen Stamford!
No, Glenn, I think that riling-up the working-class crowd would be the stupidest thing the elitist crooks could possibly do for their own personal safety.
The average, honest, working-class people of the United States know exactly what the score is, and they know who screwed them, and it's not their fellow citizens.
And although that low-life elitist media liar, Rupert Murdoch, used to be able to distract and rile-up some people with his scurrilous, racist NY Post, with things like showing our black President as a monkey shot and bleeding to death on the sidewalk, and get-away with lying that he didn't mean 'that', and he used to be able to put baffoons like Beck on his FOX fascist propaganda channel and seed fears of WMDs, GWOT, and riots in the streets, the ruling-elite is starting to see that their old tricks of 'divide and conquer' are not working anymore --- and they correctly sense that they are absolutely alone (which is just how they live their nasty, thieving lives), and they are scared for their pitiful lives, and even more scared for their money!
Didja catch Glenn Beck's comment about his fear that the problem would devolve into a French Revolution type scenario? That's the outcome that the elites shit themselves over. Do you recall early reportage from the morgue in Baghdad? At its peak somewhere in the range of 600 corpses arrived EACH day. It was attributed to vendettas. This was prior to the label of civil war between Sunni and Shia. And as such, there is no exemption in Karma for American Exceptionalism. We Americans should prepare for that giant, unjudging wheel of what comes around goes around.
I've laughed at the left/progressive politicians as they constantly seek gun control because it suggests that if it will not allow the individual the right of self defense how can it pre-suppose an ability to protect the collective. Also, I've laughed at the right/conservatives who seem to believe that selfish rapine and plunder are sustainable/profitable without recognizing that the slaves will burn the master's house down. I've laughed at both sides of the same coin when it insists we are a nation of laws not men. For the truth is we are a nation men "led" by the lawless opportunism of corporatist greed and militarisms of might makes right.
Beck is correct in that the goverment has betrayed the people. On both sides of the spectrum each has betrayed itself as well as the betrayal of other side. Betrayal of good people, the cogs so to speak, here in the common weal.
But Beck is also calling up his believers, and they are armed and monied, and they are awaiting an event of masses behaving badly. It is easy to think they wait another terrorist attack. Certianly the Bushies creamed in their panties of such another "attack". They do not see themselves prostrate upon the junk heap of broken ideologies. They are bullies and they want us scared. Beck brings on stooges of ex military and ex CIA to legitimize his menacings backed up with "war-gamings." He and Fox dare not bring onto the show the mercenary armies of Blackwater et. al., but certainly they too await.
So, make no mistake. They want it to turn ugly. Confront the bully. Read your Constitution, arm yourself, and be prepared to die for what you believe in and be prepared to die protecting those you love. For they, those compasionate conservatives are willing to make you die.
After all, YOU are the enemy to Beck and his ilk, not foreign, rather domestic. We read here of Generals styming Mr. Obama's plan to draw down the Iraq war. This is treason. We have mercenary armies on our soil. Again treason. We face draconian laws to stifle dissent which shame Hitler's Enabling Acts. We allow the topic of "will American soldiers fire upon their fellows?" as talk show verbiage. These are threats. Any abuser worth his salt has an uncanny ability to find and keep his fearful recipient afraid. Certainly, our recent election offers a ray of hope but it alone does not absolve us from the responsibility of fighting for the dream, er, the idea of America. I say again, arm yourselves for it truly will become a political statement. A statement not of overthrow or open rebellion, but one of I am ready, thug.
Actually, it was the Oklahoma City bombing that cause many of the militia groups to disband and fade away.
There is an element in this country which would like to see the US divided and at war with itself. Comparisons of Obama to Lincoln suggest as much, and the necons seem to be trying to incite their followers now that they are not in power. When the dust settles, a new constitution will arise from the ashes. This is their dream. Unfortunately, I think the same dream exists in both parties, and they will work in tandem to make it come true.
Revolution is just another word for change, and shock promotes change, as outlined by the Shock Doctrine. But while shocks may be accidental, they may also be created by those seeking change. What you see with the current economic crisis is Financial Terrorism to induce shock then change (with or w/o revolution).
The MSM is a propaganda machine of the ruling elite to influence peoples opinions. They actually provide a clue to the plan. On the left you saw a lot of talk about comparisons with 1968, a revolutionary time filled with civil rights and anti-war protests. Now the new Lincoln is in charge, and on the right the neocons are bringing up images of 1860 and civil war. Interesting, no?
Hey, if you are going to have a Civil War, do you need some mercenaries?
I'm getting together a group of Australian Security Thugs to be known as the WhiteWine Whackers (not to be confused with Blackwater).
We'll come over and whack anyone you tell us too at so much a whack, say $100. Remember, "Once whacked, they'll stay whacked," is our motto and we use only the best quality baseball bats.
Put your order in early to avoid disappointment! Contact:
www.dangerouscreation.com
How do I go about getting the contract to supply baseball bats? Or has KBR already got that one locked up?
d.k.shaw
Run out of cricket bats to clobber people with?
lol
No, we haven't, Morticia. But a baseball bat is easier to hide on one's person and it's much easier to swing in close quarter combat!
Cheers.
Let them march around like toy soldiers, who cares. A bunch of klan wanna bees. Pathetic aholes.
Glen Greenwald wrote:
"And I wonder what would happen if MSNBC broadcast a similar discussion of leftists plotting and planning the imminent, violent Socialist Revolution against the U.S. Government."
______________________________________________________________________________
Glen,
MSNBC is owned by General Electric and Microsoft Corporations. MSNBC will NEVER have similar discussion about a violent Socialist Revolution.
MSNBC and FOXNEWS in reality are buddies.
Surely you have heard about all the "wars" the left has been waging against America. We have the war against religion, against guns, the war against the family, against freedom (whatever that is), against the Constitution, the propaganda war waged in schools, against white American culture ( again what do they mean), against the rights of business. Sure I've left some out there but you get my drift.
The far right already believe the left is actively waging war.
Morticia,
Please read the comments carefully. What I meant is that push come to shove,
MSNBC and FOXNEWS are buddies. MSNBC will never discuss a Socialist Revolution.!!
hmmm, as in socialist uprising of the people?
I would say part of the reason it is never discussed is that most American's don't have the intellectual framework to be able to think about it, let alone discuss it.
All they know is that the left is anti-American. They haven't even begun to think that there might be oppressors to overthrow.
I can't help wondering how many recently unemployed of the right-wing persuasion are refusing to accept that left-wing socialist unemployment insurance check. Probably most of them, right?
d.k.shaw
If they go by the "Joe the Plumber" model, they'll demand their unemployment checks, since they deserve it from paying into the system, even when they don't pay all of their taxes.
Spot on.
The terminologies of class struggle have been systematically dismembered in US public discourse. Try say "socialism" to the commonly well-informed US citizen and they react as though meeting a devil-worshiper.
(Yet luckily it's not as black and white as that. Though the black and white is what's available to start from, in a more serious discussion. Lot's of good thinking on socialism and economic extrapolations into the current situation among USAn thinkers: Michael Parenti, Michael Hudson, Noam Chomsky - well, the list would be long, once the active looking for them starts!)
To all previous intellectual commenters,
ALL I wanted to say is that MSNBC is owned by CAPITALISTS ,
General Electric and Microsoft corporations, so there will never be any
constructive and productive discussion about socialism or socialist sruggle.
That ALL I wanted to say.
You people are speed readers or what?? Everyone went in his own direction
missing the point and that was a very simple point. Gee Louise!!!!???
Ha-ha. Great comment back. You made me laugh, commoner3. Tnx.
As you quite rightly point out, we all have our axes to grind. And quite often the axes fly off the handle. Look out for flying axe-blades! - We may chop down bad-wolf capitalism yet, inadvertently or not... ;-)
Fun, though. Lot's of unexpected views and info appearing that way, don'tcha think?
Re speed-reading:
"I learned speed-reading and read "Ulysses" by James Joyce in 3 hours.
It's about Dublin."
Ullem,
You made me laugh too, and it was a good laugh. Thanks and all the best.
And yet nobody's talking about the ongoing civil war within the Progressive community itself. I notice that people who admit to either voting for Obama or Nader get attacked regardless of what they support. For example, I'll acknowledge that Nader is great and has a lot of great ideas but that he has no chance of getting elected let alone putting his great ideas to work in this country given the currently rigged system and then I'll get attacked. Faux Noise knows this and is cashing in on this growing divide. It's not about guns. Maybe more Obama and Nader voters should spend more time uniting and pushing for progressive policies more often. Oh well, this forum has gotten to be the perfect place to incessently whine.
What these guy's said.
I strongly agree. My wife often wonders too what's with some of the Nader supporters on these sites. She may have voted for Nader but she never expected so much hostility from the Nader fans on these sites. It would indeed be nice if all progressives united but the way I'm seeing it, the so-called progressives are divided that we're about to be laughing stocks for Faux Noise. :(
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
It would be nice if this site included a forum board so we actually could organize...instead of repeating the same arguments as a response to every new happening that gets listed on here.
I cut back my visits to CD--they tend to leave me with anger, frustration, and negativity, but not much of an outlet for positive action. I love the articles and analysis, but I feel like I generally know the score now and am better off getting out there and trying to make an impact with face-to-face interactions.
I hear and understand your call for a CD-based community organizing framework. And while I personally am somewhat dubious of online organizing, I think it's worth a try.
Be not afraid.
The war mongering sorry excuse for a news network FOX parades its pied-piper of pap, resplendent with like-mined (oh pun) talking heads, bathing us in shivering scenarios of MadMax like doom...wheew!
I believe in Americans. Our hearts and minds and goodness have saved us in the past and will do so in the future. It's on our money and written in our hearts.
In God...
Peace
A few points about the militia movement and rightist revolution:
1. The militia movement has working class members, but it is not organized explicitly along class lines. Often there is a sprinkling of more well-off members. Being wealthy is no bar to membership. Without wealthy backers, right wing "populist" movements remain rancid backwaters.
2. The militia movement is only a threat to the government if it has alliances and overlapping membership with the "Intelligence" sector and the military, particularly the officers corps.
That is definitely happening but may not have reached critical mass.
3. The military is not a monlith. "It" could respond in any number of ways to a rightist coup. "It" might fall into "its" own civil war, as "it" did in the American Civil War. This is why organzing within the military is very important and was one of the major factors that brought down the Vietnam war effort. It is often best accomplished by ex-vets.
4. Another important factor is who controls the National Guard, State Police and to a lesser extent, the Sheriffs and large municipal police forces. A lot of potential fascism here, but also some believers in democracy. The governors of the larger states are very important here, as are the battles against direct Presidential control of the Guard. I'd like to know where Obama stands on this last one. Hard to say with his recent satnds on rendition, state secrecy provisions etc.
I advocate the formation of left wing gun clubs and militias. You know gays with guns, feminists with firearms, socialists with sniper (err I mean hunting) rifles. Not to overthrow the government but to come to its defense, particularly if Obama veers left (which is looking increasingly unlikely) and the gazillionaires start to seriously fund right wing thugs, also known as death squads.
But left militia is just one part of the large and serious left wing movement that is essential to "protect" Obama from right wing pressure of all kinds, and to push Obama to the left - he needs a good shove
smipypr
A left-wing militia movement would be a wonderful surprise. I wonder if anything would have sprouted had the election gone the other way... People are amazed to find that I'm a flaming, left-wing liberal who believes in private gun ownership. I have to be very careful when going to one of those infamous "gun shows", though. The Nazi memorabilia booths and Minuteman sign-ups are bad enough, but some of the background chit-chat is pretty freaky as well.
You want a "left army". You're kidding right.
You're apologetics is the same as that used by the loony right, that the use of guns and violence are justified to protect the left and what it believes in.
No, he has a point. Attacks on leftists are far more brutal and deadly than any perceived assault on conservatives. How many people have been murdered just for being gay, or because someone thought they were? How many blacks have been murdered just for being black? There was a small headline article on here about a month or so ago, about this little hick down on the Gulf Coast that hunted down and murdered any blacks they could find in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. Compare that to how many people have been murdered for being a conservative or a Republican...uhh, probably none. Some groups on the Left have started getting more militant, some people created a google map of the locations of anyone who donated money for Prop. 8 in California, and many have been harassed by gay rights activists.
Right now, in theory at least, the Left controls the government, and thus the military. But I remember back in October when that army brigade was first stationed in the US, many people on here, including myself, were really worried it was part of a plot by Bush and Co. to cancel the elections, declare martial law, and permanently rule the country. Now that Obama is President, the Right is suddenly worried about all the things we were worried about up until a couple months ago. But I'm not really worried about those little militia groups. Most of them are way the hell in the middle of nowhere...and I think they'd come off worse against hardcore urban gangbangers if it came down to it.
"How many people have been murdered just for being gay, or because someone thought they were? How many blacks have been murdered just for being black?"
Are you suggesting that just because someone is Gay or Black they are leftists zmann? Surely not.
The costumed militia groups as I see them are pretty much the same as the costumed leftist groups, Neither are dangerous. (I believe many have lost interest in the militia farce)
"some people created a google map of the locations of anyone who donated money for Prop. 8 in California, and many have been harassed by gay rights activists."
I don't see that as a good idea, do you? Don't they run the risk of driving more people away from their viewpoints and interest?
"Are you suggesting that just because someone is Gay or Black they are leftists zmann? Surely not."
No, but they are typically attacked by rightists. I was meaning to say that the Left does not attack people the way the Right does.
"I don't see that as a good idea, do you? Don't they run the risk of driving more people away from their viewpoints and interest?"
Honestly I'm not sure of my beliefs about this. It sure is nice for a change to see the Right attacked for their viewpoints for a change, but if the Prop 8 supporters were to do the same, you can bet the attacks on gays would be far deadlier. For sure, it is not a bad thing for the Right to suddenly be confronted by the ugliness of their beliefs, and see firsthand the effects their ideologies.
zmann
Thanks, I was sure that weasn't what you meant.
Truthfully, I was looking at these attacks as the same as attacks on Gay's. I don't see a difference between someone opposing Gays and using these same attack dog tactics that the Gays are using and the Gays attacking someone that holds a different view than they do.
Sort of like condemning someone for doing something and turning around and doing the same thing.
I take your point on the satisfaction of seeing the attack, I'm just afraid that if the Proposition were held today, they would now lose by a larger margin. Thats the danger I see.
"I take your point on the satisfaction of seeing the attack, I'm just afraid that if the Proposition were held today, they would now lose by a larger margin. Thats the danger I see."
That is precisely why minority rights should NEVER be put to a public majority vote.
Sometimes America scares the fuck outta me.
And I'm not talking about inner city Detroit where I lived happily and safely for years.
It's the easily manipulated right wing loons from the fly over states who are on some kind of crusade to protect America that are the danger.
The militias are just the new face of the Klan. Those pointy hats and floor length gowns were just a bit embarssing. Now they get to wear way macho camo. And burning crosses has become optional. It's the new racist redneck club.
"PJD February 22nd, 2009 4:17 pm
...
"Dow at 2800,"
Better we do away with the stock market altogether"
I DOUBT that that could be made to happen and there are stock markets in socialist countries.
PJD:
""government and unions control most businesses,"
Working-class people, conservative of not, would be find this alarming how???"
Fitting question, for it's been the corporations (businesses) that've been controlling the govt, as well as corrupting and thereby controlling (too much anyway) union leaders or some of them anyway.
PJD:
"So, the mask slips off - this right wing populist uprising will actually be just a clever manipulation of the masses by certain powerful interests to prevent any chance of the US ever becoming anything close to a genuine social-democracy.j"
I DOUBT it's really an 'uprising', a true one anyway; instead, ... as per my prior post and therefore also cape_fear's post. But "a clever manipulation of the masses by certain powerful interests" is involved either way, albeit am not sure it really qualifies as "clever". If it only tricks naive people, the the trick, whichever it is, isn't really clever.
A "genuine social-democracy"? I know of none in North America and Europe, so the U.S. becoming one when countries among Ca and Europe that are more socialist than the U.S. aren't genuine enough for social-democracies, now that's dreaming.
I don't even consider Sweden "a "genuine social-democracy", for, f.e., as the following article describes.
"Sweden toughens stance on Iraqi refugees", Azzaman.com, Feb 19 2009
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m51990
QUOTE:
The Swedish government is tightening rules under which Iraqi refugees seeking asylum could stay in the country and is using force to have them deported.
It recently mobilized its police forces to round up hundreds of Iraqis, among them babies born in Sweden, and force them back home.
Flats were stormed at midnight in several cities amid the cries of children. There are reports of mothers fainting on seeing their children hauled into police cars to detention centers before deportation.
The crackdown is in contrast to the tolerance the Swedish authorities have shown to the plight of Iraqis whose country has been devastated by U.S. invasion troops and sectarian strife.
The police usually separate children from their parents on the pretext that they need to take better care of them while in detention prior to their deportation.
In one instance, a few crying children were kept for at least three nights away from their parents at a time Sweden is internationally known to be more caring to children than any other country in the world.
Many of the children deported recently had spent years in Swedish schools and would find it extremely difficult to join Iraqi schools where the curriculum and language are so different.
The refugees, most of them handcuffed, are forced to board planes especially hired to carry them to Baghdad amid tight security and in the presence of armed Swedish guards.
Swedish newspapers have published pictures of police dragging Iraqis by force to board planes at the airport in Stockholm.
...
END QUOTE
For a social-democracy to be really genuine, it'd have to be a lot more humane and sane than this Swedish govt.
Scandinavian politics are getting pretty right-wing...'nativist' parties are springing up all over Europe.
First of all, the Social Democrats were voted out of power in Sweden in 2006, so the Swedish government is leaning more to the right, yes, their own version of the Republicans (Moderaterna) is in power. Second, Iraqis were given ASYLUM in Sweden due to the Bush-led Iraq-American war and now that the violence has deescalated, I think people can understand that they be sent back home with their families. This is not something that is affecting other nationalities that have emigrated to Sweden, only the ones who were granted temporary asylum.
Living in Sweden, I have to say that the welfare system is having a bit of trouble performing due to the purposefully generated crisis that we are facing and that is a bit sad, because the country was doing quite well under Social Democratic leadership, they just didn't know how good they had it. Also, if Sweden is under strain, I can imagine that the rest of the countries are having even more difficulty. The current Swedish ideology is one that was built on the fact that it should pay more to work, I do believe that at a certain level of taxes, and I am talking somewhere close to 50%, society starts becoming very static, with companies and power not changing hands, but continuing in the same hands due to the barriers that taxes as high as 50% induce. As tax rates fall from 50%, the economy loosens up and positions of power start to change hands as certainty of position falls, this leads then to some companies and power holders defaulting and others who are waiting in the wings coming in and taking over. I am not condoning lowering taxes, I am simply stating what lowering taxes off of the 50% mark does in a society. This type of maneuver is of course good in a strong economy, because a changing society induces new growth and shakes off detritus material, BUT this is not good in a society that starts to experience recession because the safeguards that were in place have been compromised and therefore many of the weaker citizens, who are still considered very important to the society start to fall through the cracks that lower taxes cause. I think it is interesting that every time the Swedes change to the "Moderates" the state's economy experiences a massive convulsion and crisis. Unfortunately for the Swede's, thinking they could time their "crisis" during the roaring economy that was 2006 were mistaken and their "crisis" happened to coincide with a world economic crisis, which I do believe has been put into place by certain elites using certain computers to suck money out of foreign x into certain small nations that do not like to collect taxes.
According to what I have seen, there are mechanisms at work which are sucking financial sums out of circulation, resulting in higher dollar values and a build-up of undocumented stores of wealth in tax paradises. This has been caused by greedy people but I think it may be being exacerbated by the will to pump the dollar back up again to the value it had before Bush (relatively it shed almost fifty percent of its value against foreign currency under Bush, now it has regained its relative value by almost 25%).
I am not trying to promote any ideology at the moment, I think that what Fox is doing is outrageous and stupid, but they have been behaving in this way since 2001. On the point of unrest growing in Europe, my experiences in Belgium showed that the native population are in fact a little bit resentful of the fact that they brought in laborers from Turkey in the 1960's who still have not chosen to speak their language yet. In some way, I do have to say, live by the sword, die by the sword. You bring people into your country to work who are accustomed to a system of tyrannical rule and expect them to adopt every part of your culture is naive and stupid. The Belgians will have to figure out another way to integrate the culture that they themselves inserted into their populace when their own females were too frigid to procreate enough to continue their line and their own native workers found that certain jobs were below them and therefore reserved for "slave" labor who just happened to have it worse in the countries of origin. In some way early on the USA has already gotten through its own circumstances concerning the very ill-advised practice of slave-labor during the civil war and since the president is a black man, I think integration of the black populace into the power circles of government has already taken place. Some may disagree, but the most powerful man is now of the same race that had their freedom stolen from them in the states so many years ago. The fact that Turkish immigrants never had their actual freedom taken from them though, makes it easier to reconcile the differences of culture and can be done peacefully, but it must be done with dialogue and understanding.
To Be Continued on next post)
In any case, as I write this, I see the light at the end of the tunnel, this will not end in uprising but will be painful all the same. Every empire that has begun to rely on slave labor has fallen or gone into civil war to stop the practice, from Rome to the USA. Now all I need is a job and a couple of greenbacks to pay my Swedish bills which have been piling up as I have waited 6 months for my unemployment benefits here in Sweden to be decided on while applying for over 400 jobs and getting two interviews which did not pan out, I am thinking about trying to get a job as a cleaner, its as good as any right now. If we can realize that monetary policy has since October actually been to shrink the amount of money in circulation, we can also understand that this causes a shrinking of jobs, the economy and welfare in general. We can only blame ourselves for this because for the last eight years we have allowed a cabal of power hungry idiots to: usurp our civil liberties, put us into war on two primarily Islamic fronts, pumping out money as fast as it could be printed to finance the wars, resulting in the obvious devaluation of our currency relative to other currencies and allowing things such as torture and total disregard for Constitutional rule to take place. Things need to be restored, and funnily enough, the 'liberal' leadership will have to become 'conservative' when it comes to reverting back to respecting our rights as citizens, restoring order and peace to the Middle East and reverting our misguided war spending policies on policies that focus on benevolent, domestic social policies that nurture life instead of destroying it and spur domestic activities instead of squandering it in a foreign land. What we are seeing now are the results of Bush and they will not be fixed easily, but we must be optimistic knowing that we have already won the battle and now must live through the pain of correcting our past mistakes, including revaluing our currency upward by limiting the monetary supply in order to take in the slack of the last eight years, kind of like exercise, no pain, no gain.
I apologize for straying, it is the main reason I am not a paid journalist, not a politician and definitely not someone who has any power to speak of save a computer hooked up to the net. For all of you out there who are wondering, yes, I do think it is time to come back home to all of you lovely people, very soon.
If all you want to do is prevent wars, draft the rich kids. After all, they are enjoying the fruits of America a lot more than the poor kids. They should be more than willing to go overseas and kill brown and yellow people in order to protect their freedoms and repay their country for its largesse.
d.k.shaw
"Downwinder February 22nd, 2009 4:25 pm
I have always felt that National Guard was sent to Iraq so that they wouldn't be here.
Consider that no Guard units were activated for the Vietnam conflict."
As many other people would if not will surely respond: The NG were probably, if not certainly, sent to Iraq in order to avoid re-instating the military draft; and there was the military draft during the Vietnam War so there wasn't a strategic need to resort to sending the NG there.
You are incorrect. While there were not guard activations of units, there were 23,000 guardsmen called up and 8,700 served in Vietnam. At the time the organization of the Army was such that units stayed in combat for years in one location and replacements were sent to refill ranks as needed. Today, units are pulled, refitted and reorganized and then sent back. Also in the 1980s and 90's the view of the Guard changed and they were called up more often so that they could learn to fight as a unit. In Desert Storm, there were 73,000 guardsmen called up.
"Consider that no [National] Guard units were activated for the Vietnam conflict". Not in Vietnam, but inside USA they were "activated for the Vietnam conflict".
Remember "4 dead in Ohio" - shot by the National Guard on May 4th, 1970.
They were also activated for Watts. These were State activations, not Federal.
"cape_fear February 22nd, 2009 2:18 pm
lol do you think it's in Fox News' interest to cover economic collapse, ... or rising violence in Iraq, Afghanistan & Pakistan? ...
Don't be naive, they'd rather cover this phony "Civil War" and keep this irrelevant right vs. left war going."
It's good that you bring up that point and cape_fear is a fine username for such a post; for fear-mongering is what's been much going on for a long time now and we certainly should not believe that this sort of "game" has ceased, is only past tense.
So much agree with the above quoted words, but am not sure that the "right vs. left war" is 'irrelevant'. Even if it is phony, it's not necessarily irrelevant in other respects; such as fooling some, if not many, people into believing that there really is such a war and that it really needs to be fought and won, to defeat the other side, with each side taking the same view vis-a-vis the other, f.e. People who'd believe would be suckered people and they'd be wasting time and energy if they switched energy that should be used for needed activism to trying to counter this phony war. GG writing about this to inform readers is one thing and I believe it's good, but it wouldn't be good for people to waste energy that should instead be placed on really needed activism. And the purpose of the phony war can be, if not is, which it [probably] is, a distraction from key matters requiring critical attention or focus along with corrective measures.
It may all be a stage sort of act for the purpose of distracting in order to protect status quo; imperialist, corporatist, ... wars of aggression, and so on. It doesn't matter which party is in power, which of the two big or main parties, that is, for they're both war, corporatist, ... parties, and while they operate somewhat differently, they both work on advancing the same underlying agenda; accomplishment of full spectrum dominance with an economic basis that definitely includes the oil or energy industry, while majorly profiting the MIC, the financial industry, and others. Even McDonald's, we've been told in I believe was an article from TomDispatch.com over the past year or two (if not a little further back, but believing no more than two years back), is a war profiteer; besides the many other corporations that were specified in the same article.
They all know that the Clinton administration-led war on Kosovo, Yugoslavia, and, by extension, also Serbia, was part of the overall program of accomplishing full spectrum dominance for big oil, etcetera.
Hence as cape_fear says, the "civil war" the article's about is most likely [phony]. It's to [distract] in order to try to deceive people gullible enough to believe what they're literally told or presented with, instead of reading through the lines or seeing through the smoke- or fog-screen placed in front of them.
That's possibly not what's really happening, but it certainly seems to most likely be what's going on, and I'm presently confident that it is. And, ideally, the subject of the article shouldn't be mentioned without adding that it's very likely that it's about a [phony] "civil war" meant for deception; and, possibly to be added anyway, that the presenters and/or devisers of the stage act still perceive that plenty of U.S. viewers are dumb enough to again believe the rotten baiting (lies) presented to them.
Beware; the "masters" of deception through propaganda are at their games yet again, most likely. After all, pushers of deceitful propaganda, war- and fear-mongering, lying "their heads off", selling their souls to the devil, ..., these people have already illustrated being and we shouldn't be expecting them to be stopping these ways all of their own choosing. They'll persist until forced to stop, and that forcing is not going to happen on any foreseeable date, not as far as I can presently "see" ahead or guess anyway.
By way of a break for some chuckles, here is an e-mail from a fundamentalist christian family member of mine. This is what he thinks is really important these days. Enjoy!
Subject: OT-Great Show
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 23:37:08 -0500
From: (withheld)
To: (various)
Hi All,
First of all, let us apologize to those of you who may have received this more than once. We are still trying to figure out our gmail options, and don't always get it right.
That being said, we would love to take this opportunity to recommend a TV show. While we are the first to say that there is nothing but garbage on TV, we have come to the opinion that a new show this season, Eleventh Hour, is definitely worth an hour of our precious time. For those of you that are of the more liberal bent, you may be amused. For those of you that are of the conservative bent, you may be amazed.
The show is about an FBI team that has to solve forensically (or not) something of an unusual circumstance. Unlike the other forensic shows on TV right now, there has been no sexual innuendo. However, their methods may be a "little" unusual, but that is where the "fun" is.
In closing, we would like to quote, "For those with Faith, no explanation is necessary. For those without, no explanation is possible" Song of Bernadette
[sic - he is a fundamentalist of the somewhat rarer Catholic variety - USAn]
If you enjoy this show, may we suggest that you send an email to CBS commending them on their decision to air this show.
God bless,
XXX and XXX
10 men will not die for what they know to be a lie.
[No, I don't know what that the above sentence means - he closes all his e-mails with this statement]
It really has to be seen to be believed and I thank Glenn for pointing it out, all completely available on youtube.
The legitimate economic anxiety underlies a scenario for 2014 of, all banks nationalized, 12% unemployment, Dow at 2800, commercial real estate collapsed, government and unions control most businesses, while America's credit has been degraded. Hmm, how do the unions get to control business?
Never mind, we're told what to think and do anyway. The popular response we're told will be civil unrest and rebellion, not local empowerment and communal relationships that maintain some level of social organization.