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TechnoratiPunishing the Palestinians
In the long sixty-year tortured history of the Palestinian expulsion from their lands, Congress has maintained that it is always the Palestinians, the Palestinian Authority, and now Hamas who are to blame for all hostilities and their consequences with the Israeli government.
The latest illustration of this Washington puppet show, backed by the most modern weapons and billions of taxpayer dollars annually sent to Israel, was the grotesquely one-sided Resolutions whisked through the Senate and the House of Representatives.
While a massive bombing and invasion of Gaza was underway, the resolution blaming Hamas for all the civilian casualties and devastation-99% of it inflicted on Palestinians-zoomed through the Senate by voice vote and through the House by a vote of 390 to 5 with 22 legislators voting present.
There is more dissent against this destruction of Gaza among the Israeli people, the Knesset, the Israeli media, and Jewish-Americans than among the dittoheads on Capitol Hill.
The reasons for such near-unanimous support for Israeli actions-no matter how often they are condemned by peace advocates such as Bishop Desmond Tutu, United Nations resolutions, the World Court and leading human rights groups inside and outside of Israel, are numerous. The pro-Israeli government lobby, and the right-wing Christian evangelicals, lubricated by campaign money of many Political Action Committees (PACs) certainly are key.
There is also more than a little bigotry in Congress against Arabs and Muslims, reinforced by the mass media yahoos who set new records for biased reporting each time this conflict erupts.
The bias is clear. It is always the Palestinians' fault. Right-wingers who would never view the U.S. government as perfect see the Israeli government as never doing anything wrong. Liberals who do not hesitate to criticize the U.S. military view all Israeli military attacks, invasions and civilian devastation as heroic manifestations of Israeli defense.
The inversion of history and the scope of amnesia know no limits. What about the fact that the Israeli government drove Palestinians from their lands in 1947-48 with tens of thousands pushed into the Gaza strip. No problem to Congress.
Then the fact that the Israeli government cruelly occupied, in violation of UN resolutions, the West Bank and Gaza in 1967 and only removed its soldiers and colonists from Gaza (1.5 million people in a tiny area twice the size of the District of Columbia) in 2005. To Congress, the Palestinians deserved it.
Then when Hamas was freely elected to run Gaza, the Israeli authorities cut off the tax revenues on imports that belonged to the Gaza government. This threw the Gazans into a fiscal crisis-they were unable to pay their civil servants and police.
In 2006, the Israelis added to their unrelieved control of air, water and land around the open-air prison by establishing a blockade. The natives became restless. Under international law, a blockade is an act of war. Primitive rockets, called by reporters "wildly inaccurate" were fired into Israel. During this same period, Israeli soldiers and artillery and missiles would go into Gaza at will and take far more lives and cause far more injuries than those incurred by those rockets. Civilians-especially children, the infirm and elderly-died or suffered week after week for lack of medicines, medical equipment, food, electricity, fuel and water which were embargoed by the Israelis.
Then the Israeli bombing followed by the invasion during the past three weeks with what prominent Israeli writer Gideon Levy called "a brutal and violent operation...far beyond what was needed for protecting the people in its south." Mr. Levy observed what the president of the United Nations General Assembly, Miguel d'Escoto Brockmann called a war against "a helpless and defenseless imprisoned population."
The horror of being trapped from fleeing the torrent of the most modern weapons of war from the land, air and seas is reflected in this passage from Amira Hass, writing in the leading Israeli newspaper Haaretz:
"The earth shaking under your feet, clouds of choking smoke, explosions like a fireworks display, bombs bursting into all-consuming flames that cannot be extinguished with water, mushroom clouds of pinkish-red smoke, suffocating gas, harsh burns on the skin, extraordinary maimed live and dead bodies."
Ms. Hass is pointing to the use of new anti-civilian weapons used on the Gazan people. So far there have been over 1100 fatalities, many thousands of injuries and the destruction of homes, schools, mosques, hospitals, pharmacies, granaries, farmer's fields and many critical public facilities. The clearly marked UN headquarters and UN school were smashed, along with stored medicines and food supplies.
Why? The Congressional response: "Hamas terrorists" everywhere. Sure, defending their Palestinian families is called terrorism. The truth is there is no Hamas army, airforce and navy up against the fourth most powerful military in the world. As one Israeli gunner on an armored personnel carrier frankly said to The New York Times: "They are villagers with guns. They don't even aim when they shoot."
Injured Gazans are dying in damaged hospital corridors, bleeding to death because rescuers are not permitted to reach them or are endangered themselves. Thousands of units of blood donated by Jordanians are stopped by the Israeli blockade. Israel has kept the international press out of the Gazan killing fields.
What is going on in Gaza is what Bill Moyers called it earlier this month - "state terrorism." Already about 400 children are known to have died. More will be added who are under the rubble.
Since 2002, more than 50 Arab and Muslim nations have had a standing offer, repeated often, that if Israel obeys several UN resolutions and withdraws to the 1967 borders leaving 22 percent of the original Palestine for an independent Palestinian state, they will open full diplomatic relations and there will be peace. Israel has declined to accept this offer.
None of these and many other aspects of this conflict matter to the Congress. Its members do not want to hear even from the Israeli peace movement, composed of retired generals, security chiefs, mayors, former government ministers, and members of the Knesset. In 60 years these savvy peace advocates have not been able to give one hour of testimony before a Congressional Committee.
Maybe members of Congress may wish to weigh the words of the founder of Israel, David Ben-Gurion, years ago when he said:
"There has been anti-Semitism the Nazis Hitler Auschwitz but was that their [the Palestinian's] fault? They only see one thing: We have come here and stolen their country."
Doesn't that observation invite some compassion for the Palestinian people and their right to be free of Israeli occupation, land and water grabs and blockades in the 22 percent left of Palestine?
194 Comments so far
Show AllWho else could put it more eloquently than R. Nader. His last sentenece:
"Doesn't that observation invite some compassion for the Palestinian people and their right to be free of Israeli occupation, land and water grabs and blockades in the 22 percent left of Palestine?"
22% ... 22% the "greedies" don't want to even give that up. Ghandi said conquerers and occupiers need to show some "humility" 22% (which is not given out) is NOT humility.
Thank you, Ralph. God bless you.
Thank you, Ralph Nader. I wish you had been elected President, with your Native American running mate. My vote wasn't enough. We continue to need you more than ever. Timothy Ray
Pan
Israeli,now you can go back to BULLDOZING homes, are you living in a Palestinians home and farming the land of his Fathers ,maybe you could let one of them clean your swimming pool; while their crops die for a lack of water so he can feed his malnourished children.
We have given per capita thousands to each Israeli while many Americans have are poor and do not have Health care or are disable while you continue your ideology of purity Israel for Jews only.
Others pay the price while willing to guarantee your safety while endanger others.
Israeli`s live off American Welfare Roll it`s own citizens are denied.
Pan
A Man who believes in Liberty and Justice for Israeli`s AND Palestinians, others have perverted the American Ideal.
Always a voice of reason ,Americans deserve him not .
Are the elected representatives in Congress, including the 'Change is Coming', Democrats, cowardly victims of the Zionist Lobby or are they simply enthusiastic militarists cheering the current slaughter in Gaza and anticipating Obama's attack on Venezuela or Iran? Given the huge disconnect between the documented views of the Democratic party electorate (not to mention the masses of non-voters) and their elected representatives on everything from the occupation of Iraq, national health care, the 'bailout' of the financial elite and Israel's policies...its seems that the permanent ruling elite in Washington are simply blood-thirsty thoroughly, bourgeois politicians and not spineless opportunists capitulating to the Israel-First thugs. Maybe we are giving too much credit to Israel for its manipulation of our political parasites. Much as I view the Jewish State as nesting place for a tribe of uncultured brutes, our own 'leaders' are more than capable of systematic mass murder and pillage.
Ham - ass ( aka Pork -Butt) sure got their heads handed to them by our boys these last 3 weeks. Maybe, now that we've taken a break to re-load they'll come out from behind their mommies skirts and fight us like men? I won't hold my breathe.
Izz, you know what the rooskies did when then got to Berlin. If someone fired from a building, first they demolished the whole building with canons, and then they went in.
This is how occupation army's "brave" soliders acted, hence few deaths... massive destruction before stepping anywhere, from land, from air, from sea.
israeli, you idiot, the biggest cowards are you guys. It was your chicken soldiers who were calling home, scared shitless, during the second lebanon war. You fight because of your big guns, handed to you by your leeched host.
Always good to hear from the clowns. The problem is that "Your Boys" have been killing children and women and firing phosphorous rockets into UN "safe" buildings. So it's not really that funny.
Penis envy here, Israeli?
What I am wondering is whether these "resolutions" that the house and senate almost unanimously voted for ("The right of Israel to defend itself") are legal considering that they were apparently written by and for a Foreign Government. Isn't this Subversion? I would like to find out if there is anyway this could be thrown out. It makes no sense that foreign governments can write legislation and the U.S. congress vote on it.
I really think people should keep writing their congress people on this. We should not let this go. The slaughter that the Israeli's are committing is in direct response to our Pro-Israeli Congress. This is NOT RIGHT, and it is time that the Citizens take up this issue and stop the influence of Israel on our Government. For God's sake, This Fascist criminal Olmert is bragging how he humiliated Condi Rice when he called Bush and told them not to vote for the U.N. Resolution. For once Condi was actually doing something good, and it just took a phone call to Bush by the Fascist Israeli's to stop it. Wow, now if that isn't subversion I don't know what is!
Israeli leaders once again showed that when it comes to wanton destruction, they are the best. 4,000 buildings have been totally destroyed and 16,000 damaged. 1500 factories were destroyed. Schools, UNRWA centers, medical centers and sport facilities have been destroyed.
Instead of acknowledging and apologizing for the 1948 ethnic cleansing, Israeli leaders continue to persecute their victims again and again.
Goodwill begets goodwill, and in its entire young history, Israel can show no goodwill ever done toward the indigenous people that it had persecuted.
The Israeli people need to wake up and smell the coffee. The world is changing. The US this Tuesday is going to have an African American as a President of the United States. Apartheid in South Africa is gone and the indigenous people rule today. Israel is the last apartheid on earth, and without serious change and amendments, it can only head down a road of self-annihilation.
Israeli destruction has achieved nothing but provide more power and strength to more people around the world to stand up and speak against an ongoing injustice that has gone on for far too long.
Ralph, thanks so much for speaking your conscience. Let's hope that Obama has some of his conscience left and will seriously work towards a two state solution that brings equality, peace and justice to Palestinians as well as to Israelis.
Amen Asynch,
Yes, the last apartheid.. and they hope that despite near universal condemnation, just because of uncritical support of US gov and occupied senate/congress, all will be well.
Well, I have news. The American public is waking up, thanks to Gaza as the latest wakeup signal. Only 33% of democrats were for the invastion of Gaza....
If Ami is lost to Isreal, there is no one left to prop them up. The people maybe wandering the earth for another 2,000 years, but then no one can be blamed. Do unto others ....
Pierre:
My answer to your questions: Eli Weisel is very busy now, having lost tens of millions of dollars in the Bernard Madoff Ponzi scheme and, besides, Weisel actively participated in the ethnic cleansing of Palestinian villagers in an earlier (pre-literary) life. You might be disillusioned by his 'concern' for Arab children. He is also trying to pressure President Bush to pardon Jonathan Pollard.
As for Poland: Of the 6 million Polish citizens murdered or worked and starved to death by the Nazis, I have always been told that three million were Polish gentiles - who as Slavs, were classified as members of an inferior race in the way of creating more 'living space' (correct my German - Lebensraum) not unlike the pesky Gazans and greater Israel.
This hideous slaughter in Gaza is not intended to 'wipe out the Palestinians - as a people' since a small docile illiterate tribal Palestinian slave or peasant workforce has always been envisioned for the Jewish State from the beginning by the founding fathers of Zionism. The Zionist pioneers quickly learned to rely on thousands of evicted native peasants and villagers to till their (stolen) fields and clean their houses. Today the Israeli Zionists have to import Romanians and Thais to work in the fields, Filipinas to change bedpans in nursing homes and scrub floors and Russian girls to populate the ever-popular brothels at the sea-side mafia-run resorts. And ailing Israelis are the biggest customers in the commercialization of kidneys from impoverished donors for transplant at fancy medical centers in the Third World - like the Philippines - and we are talking big business.
So it is more for the moral education of world's working people who are or might resist the dictates of the US empire and the regional hegemony of Israel that the starved people of Gaza are being shoved into a widely televised meat-grinder: The message is clear: Don't elect independent leaders (like Hugo Chavez or Hamas or Hizbollah) or your children will suffer the fate of Gaza (or Falluja or Haiti with Aristide or secular nationalists like the Baathists in Iraq).
Politically, this was the point of putting the heads of defeated rebels on sharp pikes at the city gates in Europe, or of the Romans killing and enslaving rebellions populations at the fringes of empire and salting their lands or of lining the imperial roads with crucified slaves in the aftermath of Spartacus slave rebellion. It certainly did not advance the aesthetic or rhetorical concerns of the Roman elite. These were very effective smelly, nasty lessons to the inferior races. We shall see how effective this current practical course on the consequences of resistance and human dignity will play out in the midst of a world wide economic recession/depression.
But our plucky little ally, Israel, surrounded by a billion 'savages' has its interests to define and defend: Last month a group of Jewish parents moved vigorously to prevent the enrollment of one single Israeli Arab-Christian toddler (a darling, dimpled 2 year old girl) in their fancy, modern nursery school - despite the baby's indigenous Arab parents being highly educated, cultured, Hebrew-speaking, tax-paying Israelis who had already paid the baby's tuition. One would imagine that the upset Jewish parents evoking the horrors Holocaust in their efforts to maintain a 'pure' nursery school and prevent 'death by assimilation'.
And former Mossad hit-woman, Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni recently told a group of Israeli Arab university graduates (the sons and daughters of tax-paying Israeli citizens) to seriously consider getting out since there was really no place for them (as the region's untermenschen) in the Jewish State.
As for the 99% of elected representatives in the US Congress supporting the slaughter in GAza- remember: Thousands of Lebanese civilians were murdered by the Israelis in 2007 with the enthusiastic support of all of our now in power Democrats. What a price the Lebanese, secular and religious, had to pay for their stubborn insistence on self-determination and modern social institutions - like schools, hospitals, apartment blocks, factories, ports and their own political parties. Israel deliberately salted the soil of southern Lebanon with cluster bombs in order to maim generations of Lebanese farm children and murdered scores Lebanese Christians as they fled their homes on Israel's orders.
A change is coming with Obama-the-Con-Man and, given his reactionary appointees, it will not be one of greater civilized discourse. The gloves will finally come off and History will show that Bush was a 'wuz' compared to the experts in empire maintenance from the Democratic Party.
Our 'representatives' ... will impose and celebrate the massive collective punishment of any people who resist the Empire and its 'plucky little ally', the Jewish State of Israel.
And still we wonder why Iran might want military technology to defend itself?
Racial excuses for cruel, murderous, and cowardly blame-the-victims game. Twisted Nazi cunning and cold-hearted killing. It is not ALL Israeli citizens who agree fully with the radical racists and killers of the party in power and its henchmen IDF. They have made themselves essential Nazis, murderers, and Mason-like monsters. Where is Elie Weisel in all this with his blitzkrieg buddies? Did he EVER say this kind of treatment of any people should never happen again? Where is he? Isn't Gaza the ghettos of Poland again? And where are the the Congress and politicians of the United States? Do they too blame the victims of this catastrophe? Shame on them!
Thank you Mr. Nader.
The problem is deep. . .systemic. . . . and has to do with US as Empire.
To quote Bob Jensen---- another brave soul who, like Mr. Nader, consistently speaks truth to power (or anyone who will listen):
"Let’s recognize that resisting the U.S. empire puts us in conflict not only with the politicians from the major political parties but also with the majority of U.S. citizens. The problem is not simply that many Americans do not know the real history of the Israel/Palestine conflict (though it’s true that they don’t) or that the U.S. corporate news media outlets present a consistently distorted view of the conflict (though it’s true that they do). The problem goes deeper, to the core of this country and to the lies we tell ourselves about ourselves.
So, to work for justice for Palestine is to work against the U.S. empire. And to work against the U.S. empire is to dig in for the long haul. Our task is not to play to Americans’ sense of being special, but to help this country come to realize that if there is to be a decent future for anyone -- indeed, if there is to be a future at all -- the United States has to step back from its position of arrogance and affluence. We must imagine what it would be like to live as one nation in the world, not as an arrogant nation that attempts to dominate the world. We must imagine what a good life would look like if we were to give up our commitment to affluence and work toward a just and sustainable world at the end of the high-energy/high-technology era."
Read the whole article:
The Rag Blog: Robert Jensen : Beyond Grief and Rage: Palestine and the Politics of Resistance
Jan 11, 2009 ... By Robert Jensen / The Rag Blog / January 11, 2009 ... U.S. support for Israel’s occupation of Palestine has to be seen as part of that ...
theragblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/robert-jensen-be... - 221k - Similar pages
http://theragblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/robert-jensen-beyond-grief-and-ra...
Interview with Robert Jensen - Video : MediaMouse Progressiv...
as jefferson said:
"IF there is a God of Justice....I TREMBLE for my nation".
or the character the Wizard Gandalf in "Lord of the Rings" said of the evil Sauron , that if the "ring is destroyed...he shall fall -- and his fall shall be so complete that he can never again form himself and rise but become a spirit of malice , impotent and gnawing at his endless designs for power".
what good is all the power and wealth and influence of the United States of America if it has been using it towards the subjugation of others to its will? that is not something worthy of respect or honor.
AMERICA and ISRAEL - the way they are , are like Dorian Gray...
they "look beautiful" and surround themselves with "Glory" and Magnificence...but the ROT is in the soul -- reflected in the Picture of "dorian gray" showing his rotting flesh and soul.
that's what america and israel are today.
from the article:
"There has been anti-semitism the Nazis Hitler Auschwitz but was that their [the Palestinian's] fault? They only see one thing: We have come here and stolen their country."
it was sharone who recently said that he could offer a resolution to the us congress stating that jesus christ himself was a scum sucking, child raping aids infested turd and he could get 97 congressmen to support it
as the jews point out - they are only doing what the us did in iraq
i guess we are not allowed to discuss phosphorous bombs and depleted uranium, that could lead to a discussion on gulf war syndrome and may result in a fiscal liability for the thousands of vets whose lives were ruined by these illegal weapons in gulf war 1 and 2
cheers, b
It's obvious that the United States and Israel are on the same page, and probably always will be. We should insist that congress give Israel all the US military budget and let it run amok in the middle east. That way at least American soldiers would be saved from having to fight those pesky Iraqis and Afghans who don't heil to the American dream.
Thank you Mr Nader for explaining to Americans the truth. I hope Mr Obama reads this article.
billl4291,
Don't hold your breath for Obama's action.
"...now Hamas who are to blame for all hostilities and their consequences with the Israeli government."
Mr. Nader, are you saying that the Hamas' action has nothing to do with prompting the violence? (10,000+ rockets and mortar bombs on civilian targets since 2001 rings a bell???)
"Doesn't that observation invite some compassion for the Palestinian people and their right to be free of Israeli occupation."
I thought this article was about the current conflict in Gaza. (Which wasn't under occupation since 2005)
Letto,
Hmmm.. let me see. Someone is driven from HIS land, drops rockets on his land with the hope of the other side to pack up and leave his land.
What part of dropping rockets on one's land is barbaric. In Texas, if someone comes into your yard, you can shoot them (as a few have, not going to prison).
*** Who's land is it???
letto,
No.I think it was about last 24 hours. Rest of the history and story don't matter.
The Palestinians are living in a prison. Or should we say a concentration camp. This is not a genocide but a politicide. The slaughter will not bring peace to the middle east. If Americans were pushed into a reserve (as they did and do to Indians) they would certainly resist until the end.
I would expect a more balanced view from a politician to your standard Nader! Don't you inform yourself? Don't you do your own research? Are you also playing into this victim/villain black & white myth? Is everyone on this planet completely brainwashed?
So you are also of those who compete with which side has more horror stories to share, or who is the biggest puppet to whom (Iran or US? Pick your favourite), or again who is the biggest victim and has more right to be violent... because violence Nader doesn't measure up to using a stone or a tank - violence is an emotion, not a weapon.
If you agree with one's side's violence and disagree with the other side's violence, you have nothing to offer to this world. This article is petty.
Where are the leaders who can transcend this game of favourites and realize violence is wrong. point! NO justification on either side...
Aladdin,
"a more balanced view"
In the face of US congress and senate and the president coming out 500% on one side of the issue (the occuper side), don't you think that polarizes the fair minded people to emphasize the other side. It is hard to walk the middle, when you have such truly "impartial" parties as prez/congress/senate.
I applaud Nader for his principaled stance.
Now hope against hope that congress/senate send back those political contribution checks.. so they can vote conscience?
Aladdin,
Nowhere in the article did Mr. Nader support violence on the part of either side. I also believe that he has transcended the game of favourites by not following the other U.S. politicians who don't even question Israel. Like it or not there is such a thing as right and wrong in this world and it is the job of a good leader to look at both sides of a conflict, figure out who's wrong, and settle it accordingly. Hopefully in a peacefull manner. Right now all we have is a government who is all to willing to cheer on this genocide.
Violence is a genetic defect. Nader is responding to that. Faith is a disease. Put the two together and you get atrocities and war crimes.
http://www.metaphoria.org/ac4t0609.html
I did put "hopefully in a peacefull manner" in my comment. I do get your point though, violence is a cycle, everyone knows that. The question I would ask is how would you deal with this crisis without using violence when Israel isn't listening to anyone?
History and facts tells us that Israel is listening more than Hamas - Israel has made peace with Egypt, with Jordan, and perhpas soon with Syria. Back in 2000, Israel was willing to divide Jerusalem and give back land for an agreement with Palestinians. Perhaps there was more to negotiate, but at least the parties were talking. Israel has proven that diplomacy can work. Hamas has never given that a chance.
It is somewhat convenient to portray Israel as a demonic entity, ruthless, and bloodthirsty. It feed our mythology and fuels our precious self-righteousness. But truth is more complex.
And besides, if diplomacy was to fail... NON VIOLENT PROTESTS are the answer! Hamas are at least as violent as Israel, albeit with lesser means!
"Hamas are at least as violent as Israel, albiet with lesser means!" Really, Aladdin. The Amerinds were at least as violent as the US army, though they had to use bows and arrows instead of rifles. Does that sound about right?
Good analogy. A powerful enemy was stealing American Indians' land, murdering them, destroying their culture, etc. They had every right to fight back with violence if necessary. Same with the Palestinians. I don't think that suicide bombings and the like that don't distinguish between military and civilians are justified, but it's easy to understand the feeling of many Palestinians that it's hard to know what else to do. And they can make a good argument that when settlers move in to land which Palestinians have been kicked out of, they're not exactly innocent bystanders.
Be careful Aladdin your views are becoming unbalanced. It seems as though you are trying to make excuses For Israels killings.
This isn't about other conflicts Israel has had in the past, it is about this one. You make peace by talking to your enemies, and while Israel may have spoken to past Palestinian authorities they are not speaking to this one, the one that matters.
As far as non violent protest are concerned. I have taken part in them in the past and will in the future, but I don't believe they achieve anything as the last 8 years have proven. It would be nice if they did but a government has to listen. Governments have figured out that they don't have to listen to non violent protest because they know that non violent protesters won't do anything if they don't listen. At best non violent protest are only good for blowing off steam.
Ha ha.. who is twisting the facts now... this is not about past conflicts???
You are the one who wrote:" The question I would ask is how would you deal with this crisis without using violence when Israel ISN'T LISTENING TO ANYONE"
Just wanted to show you how innacurate this statement was...
Non-Violent Protests have worked with Gandhi and MLK... and they are the among the greatest heroes of history. Non-Violent protest is not meant for complying regimes, but for oppressing regimes - there is tremendous power in non-violence if it is done wisely and coming from true justice.
The past 8 years, people have been ASLEEP - if people would have invaded the white house by the hundred of thousands, like they did in Ukraine and other peaceful protests around the world, this BUsh administration would have collapsed long ago. You need numbers and consistency for a non-violent protest. I'm afraid that protests did not leave the blogs to hit the streets during the past 8 years!
Truth is, if the non-violent protest is fuled by justice and passion - it is practically unbeatable. All walls melt...
Even though you lost me on the first part I will concede to the second.
I do have another question though, and I'm not trying to be a smart ass. Do you think if the Palestinians had marched in the streets when their land was taken from them, would Israel (considering their contempt for the Palestinians) have stoped and given the land back?
It is my understanding that Israel was willing to give back land even without non-violent protests... just by negotiation with Arafat at the time (2000). The Peace talks collapsed not because of land issues but because of the "the right of return for the refugees" and because of "the old Jerusalem city status." Israel wanted to compensate the refugees financially for their loss, while Arafat wanted their physical return granted...
What people don't realize is that Hamas is-not-willing-to-talk! Hamas is the one completely ignoring Israel's existence. Hamas' idea of victory is not peace, it is end of Israel's existence.
You may sympathize with Hamas's point of view and agree that Israel has no right of being, but then... you flush peace down the toilet with that thought.
To answer your question more specifically - yes, if Palestinians would have began massive non-violent protests back in 1987, I'm positive we would long have by now two countries living side by side on that stripe of land. Call me naive... I think it ought to be tried.
Aladin,
I have not yet had chance to discuss the latest calamity with jewish friends (I am deferring until I am a bit less emotional, letting the pictures of dead children fade away a bit...), but you must concede that one has to be a real diehard (or historically/politically ignorant, or both) not to see what is going on, and not be able to lay the blame properly.
Occupiers are hold to MUCH higher standards than occupied. If you are suppressed for 60 years, you are not held to the same standard as the "only democracy" in the middle east (less its arab parties that were just kicked out...).
1987, 1967 or 1937? The Palestinians don't wan't just a part of their land back they want all of their land back. Even though you'll disagree I think they have every right to it.
Do you actually believe in this shit aladdin, that you guys are fundamentally good? You just need to listen to the rantings of your evil politicians, and you will know what you guys have become.
God, my heart bleeds for the hundreds of children who were mowed down so ruthlessly. You guys have truly sold your souls to the devil.
Good point hafeezur.
I believe a country that has sold its soul will sooner or later implode. I think American is trying to reclaim its soul by electing Obama (who might suprise us one way or another).
But Isreal is now going to elect a rightwinger Natanyahoooo who will promise even more violence - he is up in poles.
Isreal was built on "victimhood".. I think that notion is now safely put to rest in the court of public opinion (that is 99% of the people in the world). This does not bode well for them.
What a bunch of worn-out doubletalk. Israel doesn't need anyone to recognize it's silly "right to exist." Israel has nuclear weapons!
What we, all Americans, should be worried about is the Gaza POW's ABILITY to exist under the Israeli war crimes of the past week.
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
First Person
History and "facts" are what is told by those in power. Such is the case about most of the history that we have been taught about the Israel/Palestine conflict in this country, eg "A land without people for a people without a land."
The story we have been propagandized to believe in this country (most of the Arab world knows otherwise) is no different.
In addition to the fact that "Barak's generous proposal" divided the West Bank and Gaza into Bantustans, with internal and external control of trade, borders, water and airspace,the offer to share Jerusalem was truly bogus.An apt metaphor would be a large jail, in which the jailors agree to expand--somewhat--the jail cell space, but forget about getting a key. There was no way that Arafat could have returned to his people having agreed to what was offered, and everyone but the Palestinians knew that going in.
I beg you to look at the following link: www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/israel-palestine/2005/0111truth.htm
This was written by an associate editor to the Wall Street Journal. It's an adult history, rather than the Walt Disney one that we were all fed.
to mdidyk
It is not my personal opionion that Arafat was the sole one to blame for the failure of 2000 Camp David. I was following the issue closely and personally knew that there were problems for this deal to be sealed.
HOWEVER - WHY NOT CONTINUING NEGOTIATING AND TALKING??? Because agreements fail, one must go back to violence? What did that 2nd Intifada bring to ANYONE? Nothing, zero gain, but more hatred on both sides.
Blood is wasted, it doesn't even bring new lessons or resolutions. Same mistakes keep being repeated.
Violence WON'T WORK! Enough of the martyrdom myth, enough of the victim/villain competition...
Enough of it on this forum as well...
Aladdin, you've been playing with your lamp too much!
Don't the casualty figures, 1260 to 10, tell you something? Perhaps your maths is not so good or could it be you only have one eye!
www.dangerouscreation.com
I certainly would not use the holocauste as a justification for using violence - but I would not use the comparaison in the number of death either to justify violence - If a palestinian rocket would have hit a kindergarden in Israel and caused the death of many children, would you then have legitimized Israel's violence??
If Hamas had the means it would not hold back and would not avoid firing more and killing more - I think every one can agree with that.
We end up at the same point - Are we going to compare the horror stories to choose who is more of a victim, or are we going to rise above "the game" and see both sides as human, and both sides equally feeding violence! If we want peace, we can't accept any violence, whether it comes from a rusty rocket or an airplane.
By denying medical care and food into Gaza BEFORE the six month cease fire broke down, Isreal was killing Palestinian children.
When there is no hope, violence is the result.
leave small footprints
Even if that were true (and not grossly exaggerated) where are the >>>hundreds of millions of dollars<<< given to the Palestinian cause? Why don't they smuggle more medicine and food in the tunnels? mmmm...
You can try to deny or justify Hamas violence, but I can give you a list of opposite facts that will contradict these justifications. Don't you see, this will never end, even on these "civilized" forums. The competition for victimhood is not leading anywhere.
Mutual responsibility only will lead to peace.
I'm sure that if YOU we're starving you would also be smuggling FOOD instead of oppressing ending paraphernalia. Sure, you would.
"1260 to 10"
Sure, everyone likes to throw that figure around.
But with all the people now calling Jewish people Nazis, how come no one quotes the figure: 6,000,000 to 1260 ?
you might be surprised that not a few jews CALL israel's policies NAZI - like.
i just heard THAT from a Holocaust survivor - a very old, thin gentleman, a jew , very educated...who , for some reason, started to make remarks about the news in gaza -- and he LITERALLY was trembling with tears streaming down his face as he said:
"we have said --never again--- but it IS HAPPENING to the palestinians -- with my fellow jews doing it as Israelis, they have become Nazis...with the help of the United States....just STOP, STOP, STOP"...he kept saying that....
because 6 Million jews dead in Nazi Germany DOESN"T translate to Israel STEALING palestinian Land nor does it equate to Israel KILLING 1260 and MORE palestinians.
because 6 million dead jews under the holocaust was not something the Palestinians should PAY FOR by THEIR own lives and suffering UNDER the THIEVES of their land called Israeli Zionists.
wasn't THAT clear enough?
where is it in logic that says - when someone has killed YOUR mother or father you go out and STEAL someone ELSE's house and kill HIS and HER children and parents who had NOTHING to do with YOUR tragedy somewhere ELSE?
one might as well say that:
Since one's house was robbed by person A - one will, out of vengeance and recompense for oneself - rob and kill Person B.
but apparently , those who express remorse or distress that no "one remembers the holocaust upon the 6 million jews in europe" , somehow find THAT as a justification for creating a holocaust upon palestinians by the descendants of those 6 million jews....
why wouldn't you remember that when the jews of europe tried to enter the USA -- they were TURNED AWAY?...and england wanted nothing to do with them -- and pointed them TO palestine -- where they eventually STOLE land from palestinians and kill palestinians up to this very second?
are we to say then that the jews were so traumatized by the Holocaust that it GAVE THEM the RIGHT to cause a holocaust upon palestinians?
that is the definition of an excuse for INSANITY.
It's the abused (child) nation syndrome.
Thank YOU, for CAPITALIZING some words, But NOT others. QUITE clever. If YOU hadn't done THAT. I might NOT have able TO follow your rambling ANTI-ISRAELI diatribe. But BY occasionally EMPHASIZING only certain words, YOU make THOSE words stand OUT, and THUS clarify THE tone of YOUR comment.
Or are you writing in code? Is there a hidden message in your post?
The refuge of someone who can't defend: attack.
Instead of sounding like a complete douche bag you can try and justify your argument. Unless you can't, that is.
Thank you Tcolon for citing that.
As Savannah correctly pointed out , the SYSTEMIC , fundamental problem is US EMPIRE - using Israel as the lynchpin for "reshaping the Middle east" - the iraq war, afghanistan, even as far back as Carter's "giving Russia her own vietnam" -- having as a consequence of CIA operations that empowered the Taliban and out of it Al Qaeda through Bin Laden who made a pointed note that his OWN rise was partly a result of CIA american operations - and which according to him only proved that the motives of the USA and "euro-centricism" has always been and REMAINS to reshape the middle east , arab nations, in the way the west wants .
and what is the central pillar of all this? it is the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA as a global empire -- starting all the way from the Monroe Doctrine or even earlier - declaring that "south america belongs to the United States" -- EVEN as far as actually making pronouncements to actually INVADE south america many generations ago..and instead they settled for corporatism and financial manipulations and support of dictatorships.
is it ANY different from US Imperial designs in Southeast Asia? Vietnam? AFrica today where there is a "new" "central command" set up by the USA to FURTHER MILITARIZE africa? is it any different from the USA making Europe -- as the price of liberation and the "marshall plan" -- as a "junior partner?" to surround what has for centuries been the PRIME TARGET and BIG PRIZE for western europe -- even including HITLER's attempts -- which is to control and rule over the great landmass of Russia, Central Asia and Eventually China?
put the dots together -- it is ALL about US EMPIRE - with ISRAEL as the ATTACK DOG in the middle east, japan in the east asian region (why ELSE did the USA make a "marshall plan" version for its sworn enemy from world war 2 while actually suppressing Japan's victims of war such as vietnam, philippines, korea, china, etc?
THIS IS ABOUT AMERICAN EMPIRE. no matter how israel has somehow found a way to become the parasitic "alien" that influences American policies and politics - it is STILL about american empire.
AND in the background is EUROPE's OWN connivance trying to assuage its own guilt about the Holocaust while hoping to continue - at least in its government policies among the former empires -- SOME semblance of european "white man's burden" influence upon the rest of the world.
and in the region of palestine -- who PAYS for ALL THESE with their suffering, subjugation, dehumanization , death, dislocation, virtual imprisonment in their own land, and hopelessness?
the PALESTINIANS.
what is the pattern here?
US EMPIRE in the american continent was exacted upon the Native Indians and imported Slaves - that means THEFT OF LAND and RESOURCES and SLAVE, CHEAP LABOR.
US EMPIRE globally -- in south america , south, east, middle and central asia - for their resources and cheap labor controlled under "cooperative" rules like the Saudis, Jordan, Egypt, Fatah, etc...
US EMPIRE in africa -- fomenting insurrections, arming militias for the expected opportunists of any culture in the face of internal dissensions that should never have been "armed" further to become bigger than they ought to have been
US EMPIRE in south america -- you can list the majority of countries that USA has undermined by supporting rightwing , corporate friendly dictators
it is ALL US EMPIRE with "vassals" or "partners" in crime in all corners of the globe...be they ENGLAND today in europe - or germany or france, or brussels,
or japan in asia
or Jordan , Egypt, and the "new american province" of iraq, and expected Afgahnistan
or some other countries in africa....
BLOOD, LUST, THIEVERY, EXPLOITATIOn, MANIPULATIOn, LYING, TORTURE, MURDER, LEGAL mumbo jumbo -- you name it -- it's all in the US BOOK OF POLICIES....
pattern, pattern, pattern.
Teddy, i agree totally!!!
Interesting post teddy, very well written imho.
But in essence, you've just described thousands of empires throughout world history, haven't you? In my studies of world pre-history, archaeology is replete with these same tactics being used back and forth for centuries usually in the name of some hypocritic religion.
Rome, Spain, and Britian all once ruled the world and had equally bloody histories. In fact, none of the countries you listed above has been immune from the opiate of conquest at one time or another.
And the defenseless Indians you lament on the North American Continent, had been involved in revenge killings between tribes lasting centuries and more before any European from the "West" set foot off a "Man of War" Ship of the line.
The pattern that you speak of cannot be laid solely at the feet of America.
It is simply the nature of being a superpower.
And more ominously, the nature of man.
Now those of us who love the core ideals of America, know that she must return to her ways of tolerance or she may go the way of those previous world empires.
Witness the world anger against my country due to the Bush Crime Family highjacking the normal mechanisms of checks and balances.
No. It's the "nature" of the savage human that still lives as if the limbic system is more advanced than his brain. Empires are but vastly expounded upon entities that fight each other to prove that their penis is bigger than anyone else's. Isn't it time enough in our evolution to move beyond such self-destruction. Or, are you conceding that humanity is a doomed species?
Of course humanity is a doomed species. Can there be any question of that? Just look around you. We have gone beyond the point of no return in so many ways.
I'm not ready to concede that. If I did I would find continuing my existence difficult. I don't.
I don't know the answer to that: "Or, are you conceding that humanity is a doomed species?" I think that evolution is still ongoing; I just recieved an "A" in Biological Anthropology for my work on exactly that premise (not that my hypothesis is neccessarily correct.) I would say that evolution and anthropology have changed tremendously since I first studied them in the seventies. Culture, it is turning out, is maybe much more important in the struggle for survival than is physical cc brainstructure.
I am not in any way defending the attrocities of the empire. But to wish it away entirely is probably futile. My only hope is that it can become civilized. That it could morph into a great society of knowledge such as Greece or Britian once did.
I agree completely with you: "Isn't it time enough in our evolution to move beyond such self-destruction."
How specifically, do you think progressives could prevail over the power elite's self-destructive game of world chess?
.He usually just runs away..I think I prefer that, far, far away would be even nicer.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Even though the Palestinian leadership was allied with Nazi Germany ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husayni ) The Holocaust is not the reason why Palestinians suffered. Their suffering occurred because their leadership rejected the two state solution and went to war in 1947 (and lost).
The Palestinians in Gaza sufferers today because the Hamas fired rockets on Israeli civilian targets, prompting Israel to overreact. And not because of the Holocaust 65 or so years ago.
No, the Palestinians are suffering because shills like you, Steelgray, Israeli and Joe believe that Palestinians should pay for the crimes that the Nazis did to the Jews in WWII. You both believe because Jews were persecuted that they have a god given right to do it others.
Winning Ticket,
I don't think it is a believe thing. The land is very small, so one group's gain is the group's loss. Israel has decided to be the gainer (with illegal settlement). They have very little if any sympathy for the plight of the other side -- probably think of them as cockroaches that if it was not for UN and world opinion, would have been eradicated by now.
You forgot to mention Gays. I'd love to see homosexuals get the bomb.
letto,
The Italians and Japanese were more allied with Nazis than Palestinians if at all. Why not go and grab their lands and kill them?
That means at the very least Olmert will be nominated for the Nobel Peace prize.
The Change.gov "ideas for Obama" site is almost exclusively calling for Israel to end the carnage.
ezeflyer, yes, and they probably throw the results in the trash can, unfortunately.
We shall see if Obama is willing to ruffle the feathers with two wars and a collapsing economy. He may choose to be quiet (despite his convictions) on this one.
My only hope is Michelle ("I did not like America before") Obama. She sees it as it is, and as a real black american unlike Obi, she feels injustice in her bones. Maybe she would prod him along, my ONLY hope.
It is pointless to talk about the 'cowardice' of our elected representatives in regard to their votes on supporting Israel. They are not cowards. No one is forcing them to vote against the public opinion of their own electorate (in the case of the Democrats - over 60% of registered voters opposed the Israeli invasion of Gaza while over 90% of the Congressional Democrats celebrated the slaughter). There is no secret about it. There is no cowardice, either. It is their fundamental ideological position. The political elite in the US - elected representatives in both parties - overwhelmingly support the genocide of thousands of unarmed and starving Palestinians as a cheap and painless way of showing the world that ....
'WE MEAN BUSINESS' (we being the State of Israel and the political elite in the US) and 'MESS WITH US AND OUR EMPIRE...AND YOU'LL WISH YOU WERE IN GAZA...' For all their humanitarian slogans, their 'liberalism', their concern for the 'environment' and their posturing about 'our children and our grandchildren' ...the clown-faced killers we repeatedly 'elect' are fundamentally fascists with the con-man's sociopathic capacity to cry, lie and kill on cue, something the Israelis call the syndrome of 'Crying while shooting'. Anyone ever hear Liberal Rep. Barney Frank speak up for the poor harmless Palestinian gays sucked into the Israeli meat grinder? The current industrial sized meat grinding display is not about us in LaLa land, anyway. (Who the hell reads 'Common Dreams' ?) It is for the moral education of the peasants and slum dwellers in Venezuela, the millions of educated young men and women in Iran, the miners in Bolivia, citizens in Russia and China... It wasn't enough for the US Empire to slaughter over a million Iraqis and totally level their secular republic and eliminate the entire secular educated class. Thousands of Lebanese were murdered by the Israelis in 2007 with the enthusiastic support of all of our now in power Democrats. Boy, a change is coming with Obama. The gloves will come off - History will show that Bush was a 'wuz'.
Our 'representatives' ... will impose and celebrate the massive collective punishment of any people who resist the Empire and its 'plucky little ally', the Jewish State of Israel.
And still we wonder why Iran might want military technology to defend itself?
Robinea and all:
The senate/congress being what they are -- let's accept that.
What are the political pressure points that WE as civizens can push to change their vote/behavior.
I like to hear on this, to educate myself, and get ready for peaceful action.
Please advise.
Nader's back. Oh. Yay...
He's back. Yet again.
After the election (and even before it) I noticed that although Counterpunch had been running tons of articles by Nader, CD had hardly ran any. I guess it was just wishful thinking to hope that Craig Brown had finally sidelined Nader once and for all. I can dream, can't I?
After all, if it wasn't for Nader, we would have elected Al Gore who would have addressed climate change, protected civil liberties, and never have taken us to war with Iraq without a coalition, UN approval, and a plan to win the peace. Instead, Nader got to feed some crumbs to his insatiable ego and we got stuck with 8 years of Bush.
Oh well. At least, he wasn't popular enough (this time around) to elect McCain.
I wonder if he'll work as hard to sabotage Obama's presidency as he did Carter's.
Nader is like a zombie. No matter how many times we think his rotting corpse is dead and buried, he somehow reappears and tries to eat our brains.
You are full of shit, joehope. Stop railing against your betters.
.That you do not understand how much of a caricature you are is pretty darn funny. Tragic for you of course, but funny for us.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
OH. SWEET. JE-SUS.
(Or maybe it should read, "OY, Sweet Jesus".)
And before you accuse me of being anti-Semetic, I should tell you, joe, that I AM Jewish (or, more accurately, I grew up Jewish. Without getting into my feelings about religion, let's just say I'm "spiritual not religious".)
So maybe I, like the rest of us "Jews" who see Zionism as the excuse for ignorance and violent exploitation that it has become, are just, you know, "Self-Hating" Jews?
Wake up, joe. It's gonna happen sooner or later, anyway. Might as well be at a time and in a manner of your own choosing. (Like it can be otherwise....)
Yo Ralph. GO FOR IT!!!!
Joehope: The only thing that is a rotting corpse is the One Corporate Party with two heads. Sooner or later you will smell the stench - with or or without smelling the coffee.
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”
Mohatma Gandhi
Ralph Nader should shut up and try running for Senator of Connecticut instead of playing spoiler once every 4 years for the White House. Nice letter Ralph but unfortunately, thanks to your urge to spoil in 2000, the country was WRECKED for the last 8 years !
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
I agree. Nader can easily snatch Joe Lieberman's seat in 2012 or even Dodd's in 2010. In fact, Nader can easily hammer Dodd for pushing for the Wall Street bailout and win that seat. That would be much better for the Senate and the country as a whole. Why is it that we ordinary folks have to climb up the ladder to get the highest position in our profession but politicians don't?
Bullhockey. Tens of thousands of DEMOCRATS who voted for BUSH in Florida alone in 2000 spoiled the election that the DEMOCRATS allowed George Bush to steal. You, DEMOCRATS, wrecked the country with your complicity, with your giving Bush the go ahead to war in Iraq, with allowing torture, with the atrocities of Abu Ghraib, with the atrocities of Guantanamo, with PATRIOT Act I & II, with doing away with the Posse Comitatus Act, with extreme rendition, etc. YOU! DEMOCRATS allowed that to happen. Ralph Nader did not. So YOU, DEMOCRATS, wrecked the country and now REFUSE to prosecute BushCo because DEMOCRATS in Congress are complicit and would have to prosecute themselves. And YOU, DEMOCRATS know that this is not going to happen. So like a beaten and battered up spouse you go home to your decrepit One Corporate Party and vote the same way over and over again waiting for the same to happen again. Now.....bend over. More is coming your way from the One Corporate Party. Enjoy. Again.
In a REAL democracy there are NO spoilers. Only candidates that have a right to run and should be encouraged to do so from all perspectives and many parties. Accusers of Ralph Nader, Ron Paul, anyone, who runs as an other than One Corporate Party with two heads candidate are anti-democracy. It is YOU who are wrecking the country. So, screw you. Uh... Wait. Never mind the Democrats and Republicans are already doing this.
Correct.
it is not NADER's fault. he ran as he had every right to do and SAY what he needed to say which americans NEEDED to HEAR but ignored.
he spoke truth to power.
it is the fault, if fault is to lie somewhere on those that made the difference in voting FOR george bush regardless of a "third candidate".
the fault lies in the way AMERICANS have NOT lived up to their own CIVICS responsibilities of KNOWING about their own governance which has allowed through the generations the rise of corporatocracies, the military-industrial complex, the voting for politicians that give them their SHORT-TERM "security" thinking that they are voting their own interests....
the fault lies in the american BODY POLITIC ITSELF...NOT ralph nader.
if america is SO christian -- why don't "christian americans" ask themselves:
WAS IT The FAULT of JESUS CHRIST for telling the world TRUTH to POWER?
if americans are SUCH followers of "laws and order" -- why don't they ask themselves : why did they tolerate slavery and racism in order to "protect" their ethnic or community advantages and privileges by taking or denying rights to others "BY LAW"?
and if americans say they are so "CONCERNED ABOUT THINGS" - because they are hitting them in their pocket books because they can't maintain their lifestyles to which they grew up, generation after generation thinking it is a BIRTH RIGHT to have never-ending self-indulgence at the cost to others they don't even know in the rest of the world or in their own communities -- why don't they ask thesmelves - WHERE THEY WERE when ralph nader or others were telling them to PAY ATTENTION to what they are doing and allowing politicians THEY THEMSELVES put in place - so that they can watch their favorite entertainment RATHER than apply themselves and their children in CIVICS and HISTORY of cultures ...and BE WORTHY of all their claims about being the most advanced and civilized society in the history of the world?
INSTEAD -- they have indulged themselves in PETTY, USELESS , EMPTY and HOLLOW undertakings ....
and THEN express outrage at some INCONVENIENCE to their little lives!!
Great post teddy,
And this, I fear, is why things are not slated to improve much until we rebuild our education system. We must teach more than one high school course on civics and the constitution: 9 out of ten people I ask cannot name even half the Bill of Rights.
We must abolish federal delusions like religious dogma from science teaching: "intelligent design" which has nothing to do with the scientific method and must be purged. Science is about reality. Religion is about faith. The latter has no place in Science or government.
Everytime I explain this to NeoCons I get these blank stares, like nothing is firing upstairs....
Looking at neo-cons is like looking at fundamentalists. They are both from the same cloth.
George, i would say that neo-cons fancy themselves as realpolitik, pragmatic and hardnosed rationalists--idiotic and destructive though they may be and live in a closed system.
Religious fundamentalists are not rationalists. They don't hold the intellect in high regard. In fact, they hold it suspect. Also idiotic and destructive and live in a closed system.
So, neo-cons have rationalized themselves into thinking that they are hordnosed rationalists. Closed system is the main point, and says it all. I might add that fundamentalist Muslims live in a closed system too. That's why I find little hope for a resolution.
Well said, binban.
But, don't forget brother/Governor Jeb Bush and Secretary of State/Bush-Cheney campaign committee co-chairwoman Katherine Harris who fraudulently removed more than 50,000 legitimate (mostly black) voters from voter registration lists, ostensibly because their names were similar to the names of felons.
Don't forget Bush and Harris also intentionally purchased defective paper ballots that didn't match up with the punch card machines which predominate in poor (largely Democratic) counties, thus causing well over 100,000 additional votes not to be counted. (See Dan Rather's report on HDNet.)
Don't forget the 2,000-plus Jewish voters in Palm Beach County who mistakenly voted for conservative populist Pat Buchanan when they intended to vote for Al Gore, due to the absurdly confusing "butterfly" ballot.
Certainly don't forget the Republicans who voted for Bush: the largest voter group responsible for Bush's election.
And, don't forget that in spite of all of this, the recount ultimately showed Gore still had the most votes. He would have been President if the U.S. Supreme Court had not ordered Florida to stop recounting the votes.
Back in 2000, even though I voted for Bush at the time I was still a Republican, I was sickened that the Republicans had to go through this much trouble down in Florida to steal it for Dubya. I do wish the Democrats in Florida and in DC would have held Bush accountable on that note alone but I guess that's why we need to straighten our pols up starting on the local elections.
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
Here we have Terrance Mitchell of South Dakota -- a hateful screamer who blames George Bush's 2000 election on Ralph Nader -- now admitting that he himself voted for Bush in 2000.
Bush, he said at the top of this thread, has "wrecked the country for the past eight years." And, that's Nader's fault. Yet Terrance Mitchell voted for Bush!?
This is an insight into the character assassins who smear Nader every time his name is mentioned. Not all are vile Democratic partisans. At least some, like Terrance Mitchell, are deluded Republican fools who can't bring themselves to admit that they themselves are responsible for George Bush and the ruination he has brought this country.
you have PERSONAL HONOR -- TMinSD. may more americans be like you.
Everyone knows by now that that is horse sh**..the Dems are their own spoilers. They will be again. They keep cowtowing to the Right. The neo-con Right thinks that it is hilarious, too.
Oh sweet Jesus...
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
To be honest I sort of agree with him, Nader should run for Congress in some very progressive area and get elected to federal office.
By now, just about every place in Connecticut is progressive and since Dodd pushed for the Wall Street bailout and supported it big time and Joe Lieberman is turning out to be a Nazi warhol these days, there is no excuse for Nader to not run for House or Senate in CT.
.Had you taken the trouble to inform yourself of why Ralph runs, how he feels about both the Democratic and Republican parties and how he envisions his role in politics you might not post such as you have.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Ralph can run for various political offices where he has a chance to make a difference such as Senate and House but you see, he's just a crazy ego kid who relies on mutual funds from the same defense contractors he abhors and he sleeps in his brother's mansion, is gay, and isn't married. He's too crumbled to even bother running these days. Good thing Obama SUPERSMASHED his behind and didn't get bothered by the sore loser Nader has become. Apparently, you only see things as you wish and are oblivious to reality so shut up and sing.
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
You are a bigot, TM, about gays. And you are stupid. The thing ass holes like you miss about Ralph is that he's an honorable, intelligent man instead of a politician.
Sweet Jesus what? What's your point? Nader has done nothing to make a difference. He can whine and complain like the rest of us but unlike the 1960s and 1970s, his kumbaya crap is getting no one anywhere. Nader is D-E-L-U-D-E-D to even think that being in the White House will make a difference. He would have to face Congress, the media, and maybe even the courts and he's shown no signs of being prepared for facing any of it.
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
.You do realise that you are embarrassing yourself, dont you? And on several levels too.....
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Name one major accomplishment for the nation produced by Ralph Nader for the past 16 years. NONE ! So there, you're embarrassing yourself, HAHAHAHAHAHA !
So why does Nader keep deluding himself into running once every 4 years and why doesn't he help young people struggling to run for local offices across the nation who just so happen to admire him? You shut up and go tell Nader to shut up and help push forth better pols on the local levels who share his vision and help them climb up the political ladder. It takes T-E-A-M-W-O-R-K, not running a one man's show unless you're an idiot who see things the way you want them to.
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
Oh, tell it like it is, TM. Oops, I forgot, that's Nader's job. What is your take on what Nader is saying in his article, Terrance. Do you have anything to say that is not just rant and rave?
Democrats who support the Democratic Party are deluded. Prepare to celebrate. Then, prepare for the delusion to continue. The "change you can count on" is less than two bits.
Not all Democrats support their corrupt leadership but so far they're in the minority no better off than if they were independents. Go find plenty of progressive independents to replace in Congress and let's see where we're at in 10 years if this nation is even alive by then.
"With Labor in power in Israel in the past, it was always possible to think that a two-state solution was possible between Israelis and Palestinians. This cannot be said about the Jabotinsky right. They do not believe that a settlement with the Arabs is feasible. They believe, as Barak has said, that the bombardment of Gaza must continue until Hamas is destroyed. Hamas is an unacceptable element in the region, as they envisage it. Israel was humiliated by Hizbollah in Lebanon two years ago. It must reestablish its position of total military domination of the Middle East. Destroying Hamas is the way to do it."
http://www.williampfaff.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=369
It is clear to me that defenders of Israeli military dominance, whether in Gaza or the Middle East as a whole, are either fundamentalists or morons and should either be denounced or ignored. Far better to denounce them otherwise they will continue to fester and infect us all.
How can this lack of controversy in Congress over such brutality be understood? Nader cites several reasons, but makes no mention of the influence of the weapons industry in the U.S. The role of the weapons industry is almost never cited in articles on this issue.
see http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm#Taxpayer
"This may mean that U.S. government has given more federal aid to the average Israeli citizen in a given year than it has given to the average American citizen." "Total U.S. aid to Israel is approximately one-third of the American foreign-aid budget, even though Israel comprises just .001 percent of the world's popultion and already has one of the world's higher per capita incomes."
"Matti Peled, former Israeli major general and Knesset member, told Zunes that he and most Israeli generals believe this aid is 'little more than an American subsidy to U.S. arms manufacturers,' considering that the majority of military aid to Israel is used to buy weapons from the U.S. Moreover, arms to Israel create more demand for weaponry in Arab states. According to Zunes, 'the Israelis announced back in 1991 that they supported the idea of a freeze in Middle East arms transfers, yet it was the United States that rejected it.' "
Sioux Rose
OLD TOWN: Bingo! You nailed it...
I just don't see killing anybody is the solution. Israel is a crazy killer! It is beyond any reasonable proportion. And the children! Shame, not death, to Israel. May they wake up and see the blood on their hands. I don't know how this could ever be made right again.
I feel as though I'm in the throes of revisiting a history wherein the Nazi Germans emerged victorious and ruled with impunity thereafter. Israel and the US lead the world now in war crimes with the EU tagging along because...well because that's what they've been doing for the last 60 years.
My own "liberal" Democrat Rep. who, 7 years ago stood with us at our antiwar demos (before he was elected to the House), voted "yes" on that wretched Israel's right to self-defense blah blah blah resolution. When questioned, his only response was a feeble "they had no choice" and you can bet the "they" in reference wasn't a Palestinian.
We the people are terribly insulted by the elites' refusal to adopt our universalist code of ethics and their insistence to instead embrace the law of the wild. A civilization built on the law of the wild? No thanks. Pathetic. All of the luxuries of civilization are a mockery under the law of the wild. What is the purpose of our civic institutions? To impose orderliness on the battle for zero-sum domination? Hilarious if it weren't so pathetic. Our civic institutions are chartered to extinguish the battle for zero-sum domination, not to regulate it, and most obviously not to perpetrate it. We gotta boycott the elites!
The situation is comparable to what the Nazis did to the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto.
And why were the European powers so adamant about protecting the Jewish people by establishing the State of Israel in Palestine. Because they did not trust themselves not to repeat the monstrosities of the Nazis regime and another "final solution"?
And is it not a very similiar "final solution" what the Israelis are now contemplating, at least subliminally embedded in their twisted rationale for these latest attacks, in the inchoate populist outcry to "defend Israel" against rocket attacks which claim but a tiny fraction of lives compared to auto-accidents on their frantic freeways?
I cannot imagine that the long term outcome of this hideous 'police action' will be anything but a tragedy for Israel itself. It is so misguided, such a bad decision, so pointless, so cruel, so ill-calculated to achieve even its own stated goals.
CORRECT
Ethnically cleanse not, that ye be not cleansed.
Can anyone tell me the total number of Palestinians killed since about 1920 by zionist ( including refugee camp massacres in Lebanon and elsewhere) and the total zionist deaths for that same period?
I did a quick google search, I can't really tell, but I did find figures that said the total 'avoidable mortality', which apparently means deaths that would not have happened in a peaceful and decently-run country (which few in that area are anyway), is upwards of 500,000 or more, compared to 4,000 total Jewish deaths (not sure if that includes the actual wars with other countries, or just deaths from Palestinian actions). Don't think of this as a very accurate figure though...the vast majority of Palestinian deaths seem to have come from poverty and related problems, not direct violence. After all, the figures in America are around 18,000 who die every year because they are too poor to afford healthcare. As for direct violence, best figure I saw was about 5,000 Palestinian deaths since the 2000 uprisings.
It was, and is, 100 to 1. But then it is the "1" that gets all the sympathy. Who said things in this world have to be fair?
Thanks zman!
Let's give the Jews Texas an call that Israel.
Just consider what that move would get rid of and what problems it would solve.
Much as I would love to see Zionists and Texans trying to live together, I believe true justice would have been giving the Jews a large part if not all of Germany.
I was hoping we could give Texas back to Mexico...along with all the Texans (after W has gone back, dear Lord!). To be fair, I'd give people 12 hours to head north or learn Spanish.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
(lol)
Thanks. You defused my irritation at the joehopes and other trolls. And best yet, the glimmer of justice that lies just below the surface of your humor.
"no gods, no masters" --m. sanger
You do know that Bush isn't a Texan but rather a yankee, born of Connecticut.
Seeing how the State of Texas is the 10th largest economy in the world i think that it wouldn't be Mexico controlling Texas but rather Texas controlling Mexico...
To be honest I doubt they would want Dubya and his merry band of fundamentalists as neighbors!
Thats the point.
Both of my liberal Democratic senators voted for this resolution in favor of Israel's massacre of the Palestinians that Ralph Nader alludes to. My representative is a Bush zombie in a gerrymandered district (he got reelected), so it's not worth bothering.
Pressure doesn't seem to work. We aren't represented.
-TIA
I guess now that I'm living in DC the only person I can complain to is the President?
I had admired Senator Udall as an honest man of integrity. Do the congress people sell their souls just to retain their seats or is it something else? Do they go to Washington and morph into monsters?
You think he's bad enough? Try my mis-rep Stephanie Herseth Sandlin ! She'll show you a real blue dog to be ashamed of !
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
Unfortunately, you are right. I have sent countless letters and emails and all I ever get back is a form letter, filled with propaganda worthy of Fox News. 100% of the Senate passed a bill supporting Israel's "right to defent itself" and all but a few in the House went along as well. I'm not sure this would have received as much support in the Israeli Knesset!
... dont' complain too much about the political atmosphere. Look at CNN, WashPost, etc.
Haartez in Isreal is more even handed than the media here, and that is very sad for a "free" "democracy".
Iraq and Afghanistan suffered greatly by our occupation.
The USA government did a great job with all the news black outs over here.
Th surge served two purposes, wiping out entire villages in Iraq to wipe out the evil ( Terrorists, Al-Qaeda, insurgents, civil disobedience, war lords ).
Control of the Main Stream Media for the news black outs so Americans could not see or hear about the carnage during the surge.
Why? Because Americans cant handle the truth? Or because the powers that be would hear from millions of us to stop the surge.
One thing is for sure, War breeds War. Cha-Ching , USA military industrial complex.
BornFreeMen
The War on Terror is a War on our civil Liberties.
Are we going to allow a hand full of criminals and our fully bribed congress to perpetuate a never ending war?
Where is this so-called "State of Israel"?
The rulers of this so-called "State of Israel" refuse to say where the boundaries are.
China, Afghanistan, India, Pakistan, and I'm sure many others also claim undefined boundaries, which they claim through military occupation. Are these not states too?
Pakistan and India have disputed areas that have remained the same for decades and do have proposed boundries in them. I believe China might still have disputed areas with the afore mentioned. But again it has remained the same and with proposed boundries for decades. Afghanistan did not have disputed areas when their tourist bureau provide me with a map. israel is unique in that it is continuously claiming more land. Also it has this delusional Greater israel concept which is anything they feel like stealing on any given day.
Thats true!
Most countries have defined boundaries, Israel is the exception, the two blue bars on their flag represent the rivers Nile and Euphrates. does Israel covet it's neighbor's land?
Sophie Scholl-The Final Days
This is incorrect:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Israel#.22Nile_to_Euphrates.22_controversy
Their god faxed them a map and it includes most of the Middle East. What is strange is that most often throughout history the Arabs let the Jews live in peace and the christians were the ones who most often slaughtered the jews.
Too bad no politician is willing or able to explain the unconditional support Israel receives, apart from economic and militray aid. And too bad, not many voters are interested enough to put some pressure on them. The Palistinians are paying the price for this attitude, and for more than 60 years.
Perhaps it is a 'christian' thing. I mean we do have two reverands saying prayers at the inauguration on tuesday. Israel is the 'holy land' and they probably don't want the 'infidels' in charge. Especially during the 'tribulation'. That is an observation.
The German TV-station n24 spreads the following on 2006-12-14 using the title 'Iran's President calls the Holocaust a myth': "The Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has stepped up his verbal attacks against Israel and called the Holocaust a 'myth' used as a pretext by the Europeans to found a Jewish state in the center of the Islamic world . 'In the name of the Holocaust they have created a myth and regard it to be worthier than God, religion and the prophets' the Iranian head of state said."
The Iranian press agency IRNA renders Ahmadinejad on 2005-12-14 as follows: "'If the Europeans are telling the truth in their claim that they have killed six million Jews in the Holocaust during the World War II - which seems they are right in their claim because they insist on it and arrest and imprison those who oppose it, why the Palestinian nation should pay for the crime. Why have they come to the very heart of the Islamic world and are committing crimes against the dear Palestine using their bombs, rockets, missiles and sanctions.' [...] 'If you have committed the crimes so give a piece of your land somewhere in Europe or America and Canada or Alaska to them to set up their own state there.' [...] Ahmadinejad said some have created a myth on holocaust and hold it even higher than the very belief in religion and prophets [...]
The President further said, 'If your civilization consists of aggression, displacing and oppressing nations around the world, suppressing justice-seeking voices and spreading injustice and poverty for the majority of people on the earth, then we say it out loud that we despise your hollow civilization.'"
The Washingtonian ''Middle East Media Research Institute' (MEMRI) renders Ahmadinejad's statements from 2005-12-14 as follows: "...we ask you: if you indeed committed this great crime, why should the oppressed people of Palestine be punished for it? * [...] If you committed a crime, you yourselves should pay for it. Our offer was and remains as follows: If you committed a crime, it is only appropriate that you place a piece of your land at their disposal - a piece of Europe, of America, of Canada, or of Alaska - so they can establish their own state. Rest assured that if you do so, the Iranian people will voice no objection
In another IRNA-dispatch (2005-12-14) the Arabian author Ghazi Abu Daqa writes about Ahmadinejad: "The Iranian president Ahmadinejad has nothing against the followers of Judaism [.
..] Ahmadinejad is against Zionism as well as its expansionist and occupying policy.
That is why he managed to declare to the world with courage that there is no place for the Zionist regime in the world civilized community."
Foot Note
What ever happened to all the Inhabitance of small nations of the now called Americas North South and Central.
The indigenous peoples of the Caribbean Islands, Australia, New Zealand, South Pacific, ARE THEY NOT PEOPLE TOO , CHILDREN OF THE PLANET EARTH, OR ARE THE JEWISH PEOPLES THE ONLY ONES A CRIME HAS BEEN COMITTED UPON
It was the western nations that committed all these horrendous crimes, and it was the western nations that always committed crimes against the Jews culminating with the Germany’s final solution.
Africa : The Western Powers Slave Continent
India : The Pinnacle of British exploitation of humans for 300 years
China : Collective Western Brutal Aggression against china with the culmination of loss of
millions of Chinese lives at home and abroad
What did Hitler have to do with These Crimes Against Humanity that the Western Powers Propagated around the world with such brutal efficiency, or are these acts Barbarous only when pertinent to Western Europeans?
EXCELLENTLY Sweeping post about fundamental Truths! Thanks for your post!
Of course the Palestinians must be punished! They have been hanging around for sixty years and despite occupation, massacres and sieges, they just don't get the message that Israel doesn't want them around.
Look I know you might argue that Israel has every right to have an ethnically pure state, one that is for Jews only, and that Israel has every right to enlarge that state if it wants to even if that involves stealing land from other, and that Israel is right to use any means to get rid of the Palestinians including genocide, phosphorous shells, collective punishment, etc, but if you argue that these actions are right and proper then clearly you are an amoral moron!
There is a new American Icon! What is it?
www.dangerouscreation.com
I'm sorry? Criticise? Why? It's the Israelis and you should know they are ALWAYS right (chosen people, don't you know). Besides, they need to keep to 100:1 ratio up somehow...... Isn't there also research that shows that Gazans, like fish, don't feel pain? AND - don't forget that Gazans, well, you know, just as whales and apes and dogs are SOCIAL, that doesn't make them HUMAN... and if they WANT to stay where they're so obviously not wanted, it's their lookout - same on the West Bank - they should know that rampaging gangs of SettlerTeens have all the rights they need and just move.. aren't arabs traditionally nomadic? - they should just Nomad the F### out of Israel. Actually they must be really stupid if they don't get the hint, what with the road blocks, the bombings, having their farms uprooted, their kids stoned on the way to school, untreated sewage from hilltop houses flow down to them.. yeah - since they are so palpably stupid, they don't deserve a place to stay. It's evolution - even the Neanderthals took less time to get rid of.
I still believe it is time to revoke the UN mandate for Israel that was issued in 1948. Israel ignores all UN mandates that it doesn't like, well, I do not like the one that established Israel on the land of the Palestinians.
Kitty Lady
Nothing on this planet has the legal power to do what you suggest, declare a state to no longer exist. Read a little bit about sovereignty and the international system before you suggest something so foolish.
A little history to back up your post:
http://www.williampfaff.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=369
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
irsael does they bomb the UN and anybody else who stands for truth and justice.
Great comment, Kitty Lady. I support you completely. Israel has reached its use-by date! It does not deserve to exist.
.Perhaps you might enlighten us as to what other nations you see as deserving of elimination? Thankfully there are those with perspective who understand the issue is about ending the treatment of one nation against a people deserving of respect and their own homeland and not determining which countries deserve to exist and which do not.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
israel and the USA have failed their community of nations or should I say semblance of humanity test.