'Obama' for Lefties
When I was a boy I traveled to the Deep South. On my very first day there I saw two water fountains side by side, one labeled "Colored" and the other "Whites Only." Now, less than half a century later, a black family is on its way to the White House.
No doubt the myth of white superiority is still alive and well in many places. But today that myth, the historical foundation of American society, has a crack as big as the crack in the Liberty Bell. The only word to express the magnitude of the change we lived through last week is "revolution."
Let's be honest, though. For those of us who still use that word "revolution" to describe the economic and political as well as social changes we'd like to see in the world, and the changes in domestic and foreign policy we'd like to see in our government, Barack Obama seems to be far from the president we want. He appears to be a pragmatist. He will probably govern from slightly left of center, much like Bill Clinton and John Kennedy. That's certainly the impression he is giving in his first days as president-elect.
"Appears" and "probably" are the key words here. No one knows for sure what Obama has in mind for this nation. "We will get there," he promised in his victory speech. But, in his typically soaring yet vague rhetoric, he never told us exactly where he intends to steer us. That's understandable. He doesn't want to be tied to any policy agenda before he even takes office, especially with the economy on such an unpredictable rollercoaster. Very possibly, he does not know yet himself where he is headed.
It's not like the good old days of Bush and Cheney, when we knew pretty much exactly what we were up against. Now we are all sailing on uncharted political seas.
All this uncertainty should make progressives feel optimistic. What can give us hope is not the new president as a policymaker, but the new president as a symbol of possibility. Barack Obama is the name of a person. "Obama" is also the name of a new mood -- a new tone and sensibility -- that has somehow risen up in every section of this country. It's a sense of open-ended possibility that hasn't been felt since the time of JFK, when those two water fountains I saw in the south were already doomed to become dusty relics of the past. Now, as then, the new mood is most evident among young people, who are energized as they haven't been since the '60s to enter the political scene and work for change.
"Obama" as a symbol is the name for a wind of change that could be powerful enough to sweep the ship of state great distances in a relatively short time -- though in what direction, no one can yet say.
Where we end up depends on which political forces mobilize and organize most quickly and most effectively. We could end up almost anywhere -- even right back where we started, if we are not careful. But if we on the left are careful, if we think strategically, we can catch the new wind and steer the nation a bit to the left.
While resisting Obama's unacceptable compromises, we should accept the wisdom of his strategic pragmatism. He himself can teach us the best way to oppose his policies.
As a community organizer, he learned that politics means making coalitions. Lefties who opposed Obama have to work together with lefties who supported him. And all of us have to work where we can with liberals and even centrists. How can we hope to push them leftward if we refuse to deal with them?
That means we can no longer just yell "no, no, no" at the government and expect anyone but ourselves to listen. It worked for the last few years because George W. Bush was so unpopular. But now we are dealing with a president who is as widely admired as Bush was despised. Whether we like it or not, that's a fact a smart political movement can't afford to ignore. So we have to appear -- and really be -- cooperative and constructive, not obstructive.
We also have to appear unthreatening. That's why Obama is so widely admired. He won, not by offering specific new policy ideas, but by uniting in himself the seemingly opposite images of change and steady predictability. He presented himself as the dynamic leader who could "change the world" while remaining always safe and solid, poised and unflappable, never likely to do anything rash or impulsive. The defining moment of the contest was the second debate, when the "maverick" McCain wandered erratically around the stage while Obama sat or stood, serenely centered, even as the economy of the nation (and perhaps the whole world) was collapsing around us.
It's understandable that images of steadiness now dominate. Obama knows that you can't use the winds of change to move people who are frightened or insecure. Whatever he may hope to accomplish, he has to keep on reassuring the general public and the power elite that he really is the temperate, self-controlled man they saw throughout the campaign. That's the only way he can be free to put across any policy agenda he comes up with.
He won't succeed if he says or does anything that might look unexpected, impulsive, or the least bit radical.
In a recent interview, the president-elect showed that he understands this truth. He complained that his infamous remark about "bitter" people who "cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them" was totally misinterpreted. He was trying to say how important it is to accept people as they are, with all their fears, and recognize their longing for "a sense of continuity and stability that is unavailable in [their] economic life. . Because Democrats haven't met them halfway on cultural issues, we've not been able to communicate to them effectively an economic agenda that would help broaden our coalition."
That's even more true for progressives both within and to the left of the Democratic party. We know that most people in this country will never be economically secure unless there is radical change in the economic system. But if we set out to defeat, or even ignore, the people made insecure and bitter by the current system, we'll never get them to accept the need for radical change. We'll only create more fear, bitterness, and resentment. Rather than nudging the center toward the left we'll help to drive it toward the right.
We don't have to appear as cautious and timid as Obama. We couldn't, even if we wanted to. But we can learn how to talk to people who don't share our values, how to take their needs and concerns into account, even how to work together with them, without sacrificing our principles. If we do that, we can use the new mood of change as a window of opportunity to persuade the whole nation to continue moving leftward.
That possibility is what the name "Obama" symbolizes. But the new president certainly won't do it for us. We have to do it ourselves.
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158 Comments so far
Show AllLeea November 13th, 2008 9:54 am, criticizing Obama is your right, but what 'giving Obama a chance' refers to is the fact that he has no power at the moment -- he won't until he's sworn in Jan. 20th.
His detractors could at least wait until Jan. 21st to start informing us via their crystal balls of what an abject failure his presidency will be.
The whiners are out in force. Obama voted for a massive corporate welfare bill. In the short few weeks it has passed AIG has been again caught trashing 300K of tax payer money at another elite resort. Obama asserted that companies shipping jobs overseas would be punished. Instead the most egregious industry responsible for the practice, i.e., the auto industry is lining up with the hands out and Obama asking, "how much?" Man, lets all join hand and skip merrily down the yellow brick road.
Will you let us know precisely when we can start? Before, or after lunch? Will you let us know precisely what we can talk about and what we can say about it so as not to upset the carefully stacked apple cart?
As for having no power, he is, in fact, probably the most powerful Dem in the country right now. If not, he's in do-do already.
He had power, which he could have retained until Jan, as a Sen., until he quit, at a time when he could have helped lead, if not a revolt, at least a stalling action, against the continuing and increasingly frenzied depredations of the Bush admin. in these last few weeks.
Let us know, please when we are permitted to "detract".
PS - were you this defensive of Kerry in '04 after Nader "betrayed" you? Did you vote for Kucinich in the primaries?
I'm not sure if anyone is actively reading this post or the comments anymore, but one consistent complaint I hear is "Obama is not being given a chance!"
I really don't get this complaint.
If we protest what we believe is wrong, this takes away Obama's chance? His self proclaimed chance for change revolves around us the people finally having a say!
This complaining and fear being stirred up because some of us are doing what he wanted us to do and participating, not worshiping him like some savior, is bizarre to me.
Someone explain?
Lots of good comments on another cruddy post. I say, forget about Ira, and check out this good idea: a Congress-Watcher organization that is taking shape right now: http://november 5.org. Don't have a cow that it's grown out of the Nader campaign; it's nonpartisan. And it was a major goal of that campaign, as well, which got lost in the yelling here and elsewhere. We need a people's lobby; we can do it.
Good comments on a cruddy post? The inanely predictable comments are the worst part of CD.org. I honestly don't know why you people are here. This one is typical. A fine post -- far from the greatest I've read here, but good enough -- followed up by what is basically spam from the cult of Nader, shilling for his latest ego trip. No matter what the question or issue is, the answer is always Nader? You guys ever think for yourselves?
I couldn't care less about Nader, the person. I'm against all personality cults, whether for Obama, Bush, Nader, or anyone else.
That link was not spam; it's directly relevant. In fact, it gives some concrete shape to the only part of Chernus' post that was at all worthwhile:
"Where we end up depends on which political forces mobilize and organize most quickly and most effectively. We could end up almost anywhere -- even right back where we started, if we are not careful. But if we on the left are careful, if we think strategically, we can catch the new wind and steer the nation a bit to the left."
Thus, http://november5.org is directly relevant: it's a way to mobilize quickly and (I hope) effectively. There are many others, no doubt, so why don't you post some, Bucky-boy?
Yep, thanks for that link.
I was just listening to Frances Fox Piven on WBAI www.wbai.org on "City Watch". The show will be archived and free online. Piven is Left. Her newest book is "Challenging Authority:How Ordinary People Change America".
Writing as fast as I could, I got this quote near the end of the long interview: "We have to make trouble (NYCartist note:as in demonstrations)to force Obama to make those hard choices...The only way reform has come (in history) is when ordinary people (she lists workers, farmers,etc) have the hope and the desperation to take risks." She thinks the internet is a good way for the left to communicate. I know Dr. Piven's work for about 4 decades. There are many videos on YouTube,too.
And the biggest way we can make trouble is to reject their product. Abysmal greed, war, destruction of human rights, pollution, insanity.
When will we sacrifice the label left, so we can leave this miserable tyranny behind for once and for all? As long as they have majorities aligning up with either side of the duopoly and it's corruption, they win, we lose. There is no reason for those who want change to stay loyal to the changeless wonder that has our country in a deadly stranglehold. I believe if change can happen it is a mass exodus of good willing people out of the label left or right and on to a new label that signifies true change. You just can't change by staying the same.
I'd rather belong to the mean party, as in we say what we mean and we mean what we say, because we do what we mean.
Our word is our sacred oath, not a sacred cow that is sacrificed at the altar of politics as usual.
Political promises can start to mean something folks, but only when we make it so.
Obama is a symbol of an ongoing failure to bring meaning back to democracy, truth, honor, freedom, love and everything good and right. Will this failure end with his inception into the seat of power as so many people hope???
I think this American pattern of leadership will end only when the people find true meaning again outside of this calcified system that the majority still looks to with hopeful eyes.
"I'd rather belong to the mean party, as in we say what we mean and we mean what we say, because we do what we mean.
Our word is our sacred oath, not a sacred cow that is sacrificed at the altar of politics as usual."
Good stuff!
Leea: For me, it's about what I/we can do. Not the negative philosophy. I don't make political promises, but I do my part to make change.
"Leea: For me, it's about what I/we can do. Not the negative philosophy. I don't make political promises, but I do my part to make change."
Oh man...someone I can finally relate to. I'm just sorry I found this just before it's about to cycle off.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
NYCartist
What is "the negative philosophy" you say this as though I know what you are talking about, and I don't.
But thanks for doing your part.
Leea
Leea:Hi. I am not of a philosophical nature, so after "reject their product", I had trouble finding the positive. I have been reading your comments for awhile and wish you good tidings. I have all kinds of trouble with slogans, jargon and buzz words, in re understanding.
Hey NYCartist, good tidings to you as well.
I see, no problem with your input, it's all good. We all process the world differently and if my basic rejection of the two party status quo works best to express in your mind how I see the political social landscape, that works fine for me too. Sometimes saying little or nothing is the best approach.
But in response to your comment, I don't believe the positive can be found in the old establishment. But that does not mean the positive cannot be found. It resides elsewhere in my opinion and that is the place/reality that I mean to end up at.
There is nothing wrong with any of us taking a strong anti-establishment stance and maintaining it until we have our basic rights again. But also enjoy the little things in life, laughter, love, family, music, the full moon on a winter evening.
As the saying goes,
~barns burned down, now I can see the moon.~
Leea:Hi. Are you a woman or a man? I'm a woman. I am newly online, although older.
Hi NYCartist,
I'm a woman, 38 years old.
Nice to meet you, welcome to the site.
I'm fairly new too, I look forward to seeing you around, we need everyone.
Leea
Leea: I'm newly online, but I knew of the site before I got a computer. (I'm a few years younger than McCain.) I just did a quick perusal of some of the articles and the comments of the last couple of days. Notice which kind of articles get a lot of comments.
Marjorie Cohn's gets almost none.
The Taser murdering and the one on miserable treatment of the mentally ill gets few comments.
The guy who tells his dead father "we did" or "we won" gets few comments.
Some people repeat their "stuff" over and over. Some people are sexually explicit in their comments. I'd be interested in your comment on the comments (not individuals).
Well as you've introduced yourself as an individual, I am the type to take note. I think individuality is very important. I think your progressive input as an elder is great, my mom, younger than you refuses to use a computer!
As far as my comments go, I tend to participate in a way that inspires me and I respond as I can(limited time) to comments.
Again, I look forward to your participation.
Leea
Leea:I smile at your "!" about your mother and refusing to use a computer. It's about choice: I think people should be able to have a computer if they want to and ignore computers if they want to. Still too many people who can't afford a computer or the ISP line, and equipment to make computers adaptable to various kinds of disabilities is still very expensive and most disabled people are not wealthy. (I'm a disability advocate/activist as well as an artist,since I became disabled during my art career.)
And, like the old boys' network, we old women "stick together". "Grandpa" Al Lewis refused to use a computer,too.
You wouldn't happen to have a magic wand would you? We could use a fairy godmother about now.
Cheers,
Leea
Leea:you're adorable.
I find what Leea said to be perfectly understandable, creative and dead on.
-TIA
Thanks for that positive input TIA.
Yo, all you Obama can't stand him folks. Here's a little Welsh idiom for you:
"a'm pen yn fy mhlu. Translation: miserable and sulking and my head in my hands.
Look Obama is the president elect. You can sit and sulk for four years with your mantra of "not good enough" or you can go with Amy Goodman who said on Democracy Now,
"People need strong independent grass roots organizations to effect genuine, long term change." So step out of your house, get to know your neighbors, don't preach at them. Get to know what their needs and wants are. Together Organize some block parties or neighborhood coordinated garage sales so you can all buy what you need and your neighbor can sell what he doesn't need. Maybe organize how you garden, how you can exchange after school pick up of children, exchange baby sitting. Learn to listen. It might just be that your neighbor has some things to say that you can learn from.What? You want your Prez to do all that for you> Good luck. It just might help to get off the far out left wing constant rant about what is wrong and begin to think what you can do in your little patch of earth with whoever you share that little patch with. Step by step. Inch by inch.
."Think Globally Act Locally." Bumper sticker of the sixties, still applicable.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Ah, yes, mind your own little neck of the woods while the world outside goes to hell in a handbasket. Look, I don't think anyone here is disagreeing with the concept of the necessity of local effort, it's just that some of us understand that that, indeed, is "not good enough". For too long we have been told that we should just mind our local affairs and let the "big boys" take care of the "big stuff" that us little peons couldn't possibly understand.
I think it's because we "know our neighbors" and watching them lose their jobs and homes and healthcare and knowing that growing a garden or sharing baby-sitting, while admirable, is not going to be nearly enough, that we are miserable. But we are not sulking and we are raising our heads and our voices.
I think people can work on more than area at a time. It's not either or:local vs national. There's a big mess out there. There are so many issues, just pick as many as you can work on while surviving in all this,yes?
I intended to make that point with my post, but I guess I didn't do it too well, did I?
Aquifer:sometimes we type too fast. You did ok.
Symbols are archetypal. Ira is defining the symbol to mean something it is not. Why should that surprise anyone? People add commentary on this site to render their own self importance, and Ira is no exception to the rule. Anyone with authentic humility does not require a soap box. Standing on a soap box indicates that he sees himself as a leader, when in fact he is nothing more than a spokesman for the Obama brand. He is part of the corporate agenda marketing the brand. Of course, the true believers eat it up.
Ira's one size fits all sentiments are self righteous tripe.
The uncharted water that America must now navigate are hurricane seas.
This is the storm of the century that 30 of the last 40 years of Republican administrations have created.
The very clever and destructive right wing media propaganda campaign by the likes of Hannity, Oriely, Limbuahg , Coulter , etc. have brainwashed millions Americans.
Every day I have to listen to hard working middle class Americans tell me that Obama and the Democrats are going to tax the rich which will further damage the economy.
Whats really sad is all their talking points come from the right wing media brain washers mentioned above.
If they took a look at whats happened to real wages and benefits as a result of global capitalism , you can clearly see that the Republicans with the aid of Democrats in their pockets are to blame.
I actually heard many of them blame the Carter administration.
One of the battles Obama will face is reeducating the public on American Economics.
Our economic success is not due to Reaganomics ,and our failures not due to Carter.
Can you imagine the Republican right wing propaganda machine in the wake of its major losses this year are trying to blame two presidents from thirty years ago as reasons for their failures or successes.
All we Democrats have to do is simply help our fellow Republican Americans help us to get Washington real.
Work together to understand which elected officials really want to help Americans, and slowly get rid of the ones that don't, both Republicans and Democrats.
We the People have now become the sheepdog, not the sheep, we must tend to our country, and keep the unpatriotic, unconstitutional wolves at bay.
Get rid of the Patriot Acts. Get rid of the traitors.
Save the Constitution, and our economy.
Born Free Men
"We don't have to appear as cautious and timid as Obama. We couldn't, even if we wanted to. But we can learn how to talk to people who don't share our values, how to take their needs and concerns into account, even how to work together with them, without sacrificing our principles. If we do that, we can use the new mood of change as a window of opportunity to persuade the whole nation to continue moving leftward..."
Case in point: Did anyone read Katha Pollitt's latest--over at the Nation, trashing of Sarah Palin? It was a replay of the way these upper class elitist feminists ccharecterized the women that Bill Clinton preyed on as "trailer trash". Dispite Palin's ignorance, distorted sense of entitlement and infatuation with the spotlight (the easiest way to make her go away is to ignore her), maybe on a human level, if women showed more empathy for women, not of their class perhaps, but who were still being exploited or blamed by men, maybe more common ground could be achieved rather than COMPROMISING--or should we say, triangulating--or rather capitulating on the issues.
"But we can learn how to talk to people who don't share our values, how to take their needs and concerns into account, even how to work together with them, ..."
More and more it sounds like a description of what Obama should do with progressives ....
With each increasing hour, Ira Chernus, I wonder if advocating for Obama was a mistake. Maybe it would be better to have McCain-Palin (or would it be Palin-McCain?)bring down the airy fairy castle house of cards once and for all and we would be forced to rebuild something truly resembling the promise of hope and substantial change.
Rahm Emanuel? What say you? Larry Summers---How much worse can it get? Now I understand he is considering Samm Nunn and Warren Christopher....After claiming they weren't going to staff with Clintonista retreads, they claim that it is all they have to choose from...What? Apparently Clinton didn't care for Carter's appointees, so where did Clinton find his crowd? According to the Huffington Post, Obama has appointed a former Clintonista as a "liason to the Progressives" as if we were a special interest group when we own the majority on all the issues.
Maybe it would've been better to install McCain whose ideology would be exposed as a lie rather than having Obama continue to prop it up as legitimate.
What say you, Ira Chernus? Will the notion of hope and change be reduced to the election of a black president?
It almost seems as if you are trying to convince yourself.
YES! Finally the crowd starts stirring...I was wondering if the day would ever come that the dillusion of an Obama administration taking the country to the left would disappear like the pipe dream it is.
I guess the wide-eyed moment of "what the hell did I do" has FINALLY come to the over-enthused.
I hate to say "I told you so"...
True, and interesting to witness the struggle between true belivers and those who are coming to realize they've been had on HuffPost's lead article re Nunn & Christopher. Here is a nugget from the comments:
Hope and change has morphed into bait and switch.
What? A week after the election and you've already given up? There are a lot of comments right on this board with constructive things people can do. Go and do them. Or, go ahead and sit at your keyboard and whine for the next 4 years.
Well, the first step is facing up to it instead of cheering on the latest disappointment like it wasn't.
What is it that we haven't already done that you suggest we do?
Show me the money!
Right?
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
I will be watching Michelle.
-30-
Following in Laura bush's footsteps as opposed to, say, Eleanor Roosevelt's?
What is there to see?
How can a people push their elected representative (that is, the President) to the left while accepting his blank slate and spirit-of-compromise pragmatism (i.e., Chernus' concept)?
It cannot be done.
Loyalist Dems: are you activists for change or are you just waving pom-poms for the home team? Take the test to find out.
QUESTIONS
1. When Obama voted to bail out rich Wall Street investment bankers, I did the following:
a) Praised his deep insight into the economy.
b) Wrote an angry letter to Obama and my Congressional representatives.
c) Watched a sitcom and upped my 401K contribution.
2. When Obama voted for the FISA bill, violating his promise not to pardon the telecom companies for violating the Fourth Amendment and spying on the American people, I did the following:
a) Praised his deep spirit of compromise over a difficult situation.
b) Wrote an angry letter and decided to vote third party.
c) Called for takeout pizza and bought AT&T's premium home service package.
3. When Obama said he planned to bomb Pakistan, increase the troop level in Afghanistan and follow Bush's generals in Iraq, I did the following:
a) Praised his deep wisdom on foreign policy.
b) Wrote angry letters and joined the local antiwar protest effort.
c) Played the America's Army video game and invited military recruiters to the local PTA meeting.
Well, OK, you get the point.
If you answered "a" on any of the above, you are a loyalist Democrat. God help us all.
If you answered "b," you probably aren't a Democrat or you won't be one for long.
If you answered "c," you are likely a Republican or a witless fool.
Please, don't follow leaders. Know what you want and ask for it. And don't ask for wars, wasteful spending on the rich and public sacrifices like losing our civil liberties. Please wake up, Dems. Stop dreaming about compromising with fascists or maintaining the status quo just to get along.
And it is indeed up to you, loyal Dems, to move the country toward positive change, even if that means defying your own party and your saintly President.
-TIA
"And it is indeed up to you, loyal Dems, to move the country toward positive change, even if that means defying your own party and your saintly President."
Why is it only up to loyal Dems? What gives you a pass? Vote for someone else and you think you're absolved? Wrong! You're stuck with the rest of us in this imperfect boat. Row or jump.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
THEY
don't care. If issues mattered to them they wouldn't call themselves liberals and support Obama
Blacks in the Klan, Jews in the Nazi Party and liberals for Obama. self-hating nuts
nicely stated.
As Warren Buffet (I believe) once said: "When the water recedes we'll all see who's swimming naked."
Today's political realities are no different than today's economic realities - they are all covering each other's asses hoping democracy won't drain the pool (or should I say "the swamp") in which they swim.
Dems better do better than Clintonistas if they want to continue to project "Change." Otherwise, it's nothing more than "Chump Change."
Great stuff! Too bad we didn't all take your test before the election.
A few weeks ago he was arguing for Obama. Now he is hedging his bets. Obama's entire campaign was based on change. Yet in the last few days he is resurrecting the corporate cronies from the Clinton years. Change? Looks like more of the same including Ira's redundancy. The more things change, the more they stay the same. The Dems are moving fast for more corporate welfare. AIG just got another 40 billion despite their execs being filmed at another high profile resort on the public dime. Obama asserted that oversight would be mandated to prevent this abuse and one month into the bailouts they are violating their promises with no punishment in sight. Man, the dreamers dream, and wealthy laugh all the way to the bank. Or give a nod and a wink sitting in front of the pool.
And then a Cat like Ira asks, "Why are the cynical?"
I was struck by this line in Chernus' essay:
"He doesn't want to be tied to any policy agenda before he even takes office".
In other words, Chernus helped sell us a political pig in a poke. We have no idea what we're getting.
Is that responsible? Buying a pig in a poke (a cloth bag) is a traditional phrase for utter cluelessness: you can bet there's something very wrong with that pig. Or whatever is in the bag.
This is why many of us dwelled so relentlessly on Obama's RECORD. That's the only way to even guess what's in the bag.
At this point, we're going to find out. That's as it should be: after the unmitigated disaster that was the Bush II admin., any Democrat would have no excuse for losing. That's ANY.
I just wish I saw some really good, concrete ideas for "pushing" the new government our way. We can write them letters till we're blue in the face; we've all tried that already, haven't we? Why should they care?
If you have some ideas why they should care, write them up in an article and submit them to CD and every other left-wing website.
Oh, and Mark Marshall has an excellent point: calling us "Lefties" is demeaning and belittling (literally - that's the diminutive.) I don't think Chernus is really one of us, or he wouldn't use that term.
Oregoncharles
I cannot help but think that the Dems viewed the African-American vote much like the Regressive Right viewed the religious vote. They knew they needed the push that the African-American vote would bring, and that 3% would be just enough to put them over the top, hence the nomination of an African-American. Now, once they get the Presidency, they dump the chumps "what brung 'em."
Ahh, American politics....
Obama, manlike god or godlike man?
I accidentally ran into a cspan book weekend show that was obama at nyc barnes and Noble in 2005. That beaming smile was not yet created by the dentist. But, that is nothing out of the ordinary. However, he was speaking to the audience about his book "Dreams of My Father" and he did admit he believes in american exceptionalism.
But maybe one would need that kind of american religious belief in order to even want to run for president. He really was a lot less charismatic three years ago, beautiful smile not withstanding. His entire attitude and presence was rather different then. It was a strange event to look back upon at this time.
He is an unlikely president, i must admit--on paper anyway. I think the fact of his being elected may be the most important part of his presidency.
Obama shows promise.
As one that had to be dragged to vote for him, kicking and screaming the entire trip, I'm willing to give him the benefit of doubt, though I have many. But he's obviously the best the dems could muster-up in a long, long time.
Give him a break....for now.
Agreed, moonpie.
I too am willing to give him a break...for now.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
No. No breaks.
What ever happened to "holding his feet to the fire"?
Agreed, Vern - we should hold his feet to the fire.
I'm willing to give him some time to get his feet on the ground first. He has inherited a monumental screw-up and I want to see his plans for tackling it before I light any matches.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
And:
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2008/articles/2008/11/12/obama_softens_ban_on_hiring_lobbyists/
No, when you are still in celebratory mode is when they can pull the bait and switch because it is moving at breakneck speed.
Don't be mesmerized by the shadows cast on the cave walls--see the writing on the wall.
Vern,
I've seen the writing longer than you will know.
Let me be absolutely clear: I voted for and supported and defended the Lesser of the Evils. I voted for the Democrat (I am not one myself). I voted for a corporate candidate in a corporate party within a broken system. I voted clearly understanding this.
Understand my position? I am under NO illusions that Obama is our savior, and never have been. The only reality in any of this is that it could have turned out worse had McCain/Palin won. It only turns out well if we - you and I and everyone reading this - do more than we've done in the past. I'm already starting to do that and pledge that I will continue until this system is on the way to working for the rest of us - to my satisfaction. Which may mean never, but c'est la vie!
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
Like what? Do what?
I've heard that right there on Obama's own site forums there was outrage concerning his FISA vote. Do you think he heeded even his own true believers?
Someone on another thread pointed out that what will bring people out into the streets will be his betrayal because who the hell has the luxury of battling every disappointing trend sure to continue?
And I voted for him too--and took some heat on these threads. I'll be the first to say the celebration was brief.
But see, that's the problem. There is no "Do what?" There is not one great thing or set of actions that will change our course. This is the lie of those who point to Washington and say that all is broken and only voting for them will correct it.
There is no "Do what?" Instead, there are a hundred million "Do this's." It is up to each of us to determine what we can do best to bring about a world we want...then do it. That's it. No grand plan, no blueprint, no Nader, no Obama. You and me and hundreds of millions of others, Vern.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
No government at all?
Right on, Vern! They'll keep whining,"Give him tiiiimmmee," until there is no time left.
I wonder how long we will swing from left to right each side winning by mere percentage points, 48 percent one side 52 percent the other then vice versa, how long will this go on with at least 45 percent of the voting population voting one side and 45 percent voting the other and a few percentage points the deciding factor. That small deciding factor usually pushed by crisis and extremes, wars, recessions, etc. How long will we write long pretty stories about how the person who wins (those stories of course coming as appropriate from the left or the right) depending on the current "winner", ....about how this person is so special and will save the day, or inspire "us".
Always the same thing general thing literally, over and over and over. I guess having the first black man and family in the two party strangle hold will spice it up, and then maybe we can turn to the first woman in the two party strangle hold.
I just don't get the magic here folks, it all looks like frosting on a very bad system.
It's the democrats turn to make it more than just the same sad story in a dichotomy swing that occurs off and on like the seasons.
I do not expect vast change to occur, I expect a system that has not been notably altered to remain the same.
Obama believers expect different. I hope you turn out to be right.
Good point - the system is broken. Third parties will never come to power in this broken system. This is frosting on a very bad system.
So, what are we going to do about it?
Singed,
An Obama believer.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
In fact, that may be the ideal opportunity for 3rd parties to come to power, when the system of "the 2" is broken.
What are "we" going to do about it? First tell me who the "we", in your dictionary, is and then maybe "we'' will figure it out.
Oh, please...be my guest. Get the signatures necessary in all 50 states, then get the 3rd party elected, then take them down to Washington, then just watch them blaze a new trail...in a broken system.
As far as me explaining who "we" is...I guess that depends on what the definition of "is" is. Do a little work and figure it out yourself (hint: look into the nearest mirror).
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
Ted, please explain, If the system of the 2 parties is broken and a 3rd party can't get elected, should we just immediately go to the 4th? or the 5th? Which number should we work with? Or just forget the whole shebang and sit at home gazing at our navels?
.What you offer is being done as we speak here...It would be nice to get a little bit of help though....
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Just stay real, my good man, just stay real. This is the hardest thing to do.
The pendulum, like the hangman's rope, is tethered with knots at the top.
It can sway left or right but is always pulled back towards its center.
Real agents of change know the knot must be untied. Swinging the rope left or right is not change at all; it's merely the illusion of change.
Much like the famed Gordian knot, it cannot be untied, it must be SEVERED!!
Amen - have used that analogy myself on occasion.
keen observation.
and the pendulum will swing again...
and the poor will suffer, Gaia will gasp her last breaths. And Americas youth will continue to die in foreign wars...
In this day and age, we can stand almost anyone with an opinion. Common dreams
should not flag anyone except people who are still dreaming like Pat Lamarche.
She has yet to raise an issue, either as a candidate or a contributor to CD..
Her latest effort to build a casino in Maine Wonderlands failed as it was just
another way for a free meal for Pat. Save the space for real honest contributors.
human industry, which translates into products and jobs, is killing the planet, and will continue to do so...it will do it faster if this effort is escalated, slower if lessened...the choice we are approaching is between industry\products\jobs and a planet to live on...I see many articles promoting jobs juxtaposed with many other articles decrying industry...what the hell are you people thinking? you can't have jobs without industry, or a planet with industry...at some point, the dying planet will step up and swing the mighty bat, and the issue of jobs will become moot...even the fact that you're an American will become moot...really...
"It's understandable that images of steadiness now dominate. Obama knows that you can't use the winds of change to move people who are frightened or insecure. Whatever he may hope to accomplish, he has to keep on reassuring the general public and the power elite that he really is the temperate, self-controlled man they saw throughout the campaign. That's the only way he can be free to put across any policy agenda he comes up with."
I can't argue with this. Too much change frightens people and the last thing we want is even more frightened people.
We tend to say we want change, and we want it now. That's not the way most people are (and I question those who say they are). You want real change, real fast? You can't handle that kind of change! And I hope we don't get it, 'cause it will only happen when everything collapses.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
"Too much change frightens people and the last thing we want is even more frightened people."
Hmmm, I thought the rallying cause of change was the winning battle cry?
Wasn't "change" the point?
Sadly, I think many are in denial about the increasingly dim prospects of hope.
Change is the winning battle cry and the point - and that has already happened to some degree. However, my point is that too much change, too fast, won't happen...unless it needs to. Often, when it needs to happen that quickly, it just happens - no intervention necessary.
There may be dim prospects of hope for some. Too early for me to climb back on that train.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
And precisely how much is "too much" change? and how fast is "too fast"?
"Often, when it needs to happen that quickly, it just happens - no intervention necessary." If that's true, then why bother with politics at all, why not sit just back and let it "happen"? Reminds me of a cartoon that shows a student writing an equation on a black board. On the left side there are a few terms and on the right side a few more and in the middle, as the connecting term, the student writes "and then a miracle happens". The professor says, "I'm afraid you're going to have to do better than that."
It seems to me, Ted, that your position is rather like that of the student .... (and no, I'm not claiming to be the professor)
"It seems to me, Ted, that your position is rather like that of the student .... (and no, I'm not claiming to be the professor)"
What? I don't think I need to expound any more than I have.
BTW, that is a great cartoon. I think we all strive to explain the "miracle" part. Those who claim they know it, I ignore.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
I've done something. With others, I've created a petition to take to President-Elect Obama to convince him to appoint Dr. Linda Darling-Hamilton as Secretary of Education. This would help keep corporate interests out of our schools. She was already on the Obama Campaign's education team, but there is information on her at the petition site and by all means, do a web search on her.
http://www.petitiononline.com/DHammond/petition.html
Thank you.
Dave
So DO SOMETHING!
Tell them what you think:
http://www.change.gov/page/s/yourvision
Sign up to do something:
http://www.change.gov/page/s/application
Obama did win more moderate and independent voters and even a lot of disaffected conservatives. Obama knows what he's doing and he'll probably govern carefully and try to keep the changes for the better coming slow but steady. Let's give Obama a chance to prove himself. Geesh !
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
By being elected president, he has been given a chance to prove himself, are you trying to say that if we protest something that we don't like that he does, that somehow prevents him from acting as promised or having a chance to be a good administrator??????
Most every time I suggest we give Obama a chance I get criticized, corrected or called names here since postings on this site have been dominated by those who don't like him.... Before the election it was all about him being evil or the lesser evil or even the greater evil too. CD is their best shot at getting heard, and that is OK... I understand that reality.
They can't outnumber in the voting booth but they are free here.
If they gave him a chance, they would have nothing much to say, so thats politics.
Geesh! is right.
I well wait and see how it goes when he is President and give him a chance to make peace for the USA.
.Welsh Terrier covered it well, but I would add this:
How does one approach political activism? Do you see such as remaining silent until the course of our nation is set for another four years? Or do you attempt to sway the helmsman prior to setting the course?
You insist upon giving our president elect time to make his rep. I would say that his campaign and his first appointment are both a clarion call to progressives that their agenda is not in the forefront of the Obama presidency. Once a large ship is committed to a course it is far harder to alter that course, thus your call for patience is , in my opinion, counter productive.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Jim Glover November 11th, 2008 5:02 pm
"They can't outnumber in the voting booth but they are free here.
If they gave him a chance, they would have nothing much to say, so thats politics."
If we all sang Kumba-ya about Obama regardless of what he said or did I can tell you that there would be very few posts here. What would be the point? I am certainly willing to give Obama credit when he does something worthy of it, such as I did yesterday about his plans to close Guantanamo. However, I also reserve the right to disagree when I don't agree with what he says and does and to disagree with those who support him when I feel they are wrong.
Lobo Gris
Of course you have the right...and when he closes Gitmo, Kumba-ya would be great.
I believe Originally an African folksong for freedom.... thank you.