A Pathetic Round of ‘Gotcha’ Questioning
Let’s cut to the chase: I’ve never seen a worse-moderated presidential debate, a more biased moderator performance, a less intelligent series of questions.
For 45 minutes, the first half of last night’s Democratic presidential debate, ABC’s Charles Gibson and George Stephanopoulos (Bill Clinton’s old communications guy) double-teamed Barack Obama. Unrelentingly, they asked a succession of questions about this campaign’s not so golden oldies: the beaten-to-death bitter comment, Obama’s pastor, Obama’s relationship with a neighbor who 40 years ago was a radical activist, even the Illinois senator’s penchant for celebrating his patriotism in ways other than parading around in flag-lapel pins.
Someone might just as well have asked: “Senator, are you or were you ever a member of the Communist Party? A sympathizer, perhaps? Because the tenor of the questions at times seemed vaguely reminiscent of the ’50s, the early ’50s when Joseph McCarthy took his communist witch hunt from the State Department to Hollywood.
To his credit, Obama kept his cool. But he did so at a cost. He at times seemed muted, politely — perhaps too politely — understated as he said once, twice, and then three times that the American people were interested in how the next president was going to deal with health care and the housing crises, energy and the Iraq war, not the kind of gotcha issues the moderators kept bringing up. And then Gibson and Stephanopoulos fired back with the next gotcha question.
Sure, Hillary Clinton had to face her own gotcha moment: A Pennsylvanian taped earlier asked her why she said she’d been fired on by snipers in Bosnia when she actually was greeted with flowers. She rambled a bit, sort of went, “ah shucks,” and then the moment ended. It was back to Obama.
My scorecard shows Obama got four gotcha questions, Clinton one. Even the camera pans of the audience repeatedly settled on Chelsea Clinton. Surely, someone from Obama’s team was in the house?
Finally, when the script turned to actual policy in the second half, the two moderators sounded a lot more like employees of Fox News than of a neutral network. Would the candidates pledge to never raise taxes? Would they really withdraw troops from Iraq if their generals asked for more time? Would they bomb Iran to protect Israel?
John McCain couldn’t have asked for a friendlier script.
Granted. Reporters get paid to ask tough questions. No complaint there. But they should be tough questions of substance, not rehashed spam. Surely, if ABC’s producers had done some hard reporting, they could have found something fresh — inconsistencies of policy statements over the campaign’s long march, perhaps; contradictions between the candidate’s current stands and past votes; or subtle differences between them on issues that really matter to the American public. Relooping an already weary newsreel, trotting out the tired and really terribly limited fudges and guilt-by-association embarrassments of this campaign, make for neither good debates nor good journalism.
For years now, I’ve grimaced when I see polls showing the persistent downward slope of public trust in the American news media. This Wednesday night, I could hardly blame that public.
Jerry Lanson teaches journalism at Emerson College in Boston. He can be reached at jerry_lanson@emerson.edu.
Poor Obama. Thank God he’s got quite a corporate funded war chest to defend him against the big bad corporate media so that ‘change’ might occur.
It wasn’t just what they asked, it’s what they didn’t ask. For just one example: “you speak of immediate withdrawal from Iraq beginning as soon as you become President. If the war is a ‘mistake,’ why must you wait until next January to bring it to an end? As a member of Congress you have the ‘power of the purse’ to stop the war by voting to withhold funding in the immediately-upcoming vote on a supplemental war appropriation. Will you vote to do that?”
Any answer, I would suspect, would be the last word of evasiveness, as they try to carry on their shoulders both their “anti-war” rhetoric and their desire to be “tough” on national security. I counted 45 minutes before they ever began to get off the “gotcha” questions and even then allowed these two unworthy candidates to slither their way without substantive commitments to anything you could believe, “relieved” only by about 20 minutes of commercial messages that contained the only modicum of sense for the whole evening.
Safiyyah - Obama is not just getting money from corporations. He has a record number of contributors. Ordinary people - over a million of them. That is a big number of contributors. And, besides, he is the least evil. And that does matter. Think about how old Ginsburg is on the supreme court. The difference between McSame and Obama on the issue of court appointments alone is enough for me to be among the people who give him money.
At least it makes me feel like I’m doing something. Even pretend change and pretend hope is better than what Clinton and McCain are offering.
Yes, I realize that Obama, The Sun God seems to represent change to so many who worry about the complete solar eclipse we have suffered so long under. That’s only for those who think that the Democrats are as different from the Republicans as Night and Day though. We’ll still be in See-Saw City.
safiyyah,
Who will you vote for?
And the Obama-bashing continues, except this time, presumably from the “left”….unless safiyyah (and some others who constantly characterize Obama as a corporate-controlled pawn) is a troll.
For the umpteenth time people, we KNOW Obama is not THE answer, nor is he a “Sun God,” “cult leader,” or….the reason his message is so powerful is because he calls on each and every individual to GET INVOLVED! tell me, oh great, wise and all-knowing safiyyah, what have you done for the community lately?
CS
Moderators George Steponmyface and Charles Gagme played perfectly to the Rove-McCain-Corporate script by playing a “gotcha” game between Clinton and Obama. Although I’ll likely vote for Obama, I am not all thrilled about his call to sacrifice US troops to protect Irsrael. That little comment likely cost him votes.
sung425,
Do you think he wears his heart on his sleeve like Kucinich did or did he watch Kucinich and learn? We really don’t have alot of choices, do we?
BRING BACK THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS!!! for the youngsters, they used to moderate the presidential campaign debates and they dealt with the issues instead of all the crapola. Their debates were interesting and informative. Let’s start a movement!!!
45 minutes for any substantive questions - wow! But once the real questions that matter were asked, Hillary Clinton was the clear winner: she DOES have a better grasp of what is needed to be done and the ability to actually do it; she DOES have the better track record; and Obama IS a cult figure, with his followers stubbornly neglecting any real knowledge of his positions, nor acknowledgement that isn’t qualified for the position.
I’m going to choose between Ralph Nader and Cynthia McKinney. I believe that they should be in a nationally televised debate, but it better be moderated by people who will concentrate on substantive issues.
Jerry, you are right on the money. ABC anchors were pathetic. I sat watching my TV Set in wonder, that ABC would have such incompetents running the show and that is exactly what it was, entertainment to both those “newsmen.” I also concur that the shots of the Clinton daughter seemed very scripted, just as in their appearances together, to try to make Hillary get some boost for her daughter’s youthfullness. Sorry, it ain’t workin’!
The bozos who moderated the debate ??? have been too long, out of touch with the rest of us working stiffs. They don’t seem to respect us or to give us much credit for having brains. I am renewing my cable service; I just can’t stand the network news anymore. ABC, shame on you!
doggone is right. We need a serious debate, not another one of these silly and worthless media games. Unfortunately, it is probably too late for anything resembling a discussion of issues or the revelation of positions. The Democrats have proven their inability to field a candidate worth a bag of beans. They have not offered us any choices. Their infantile squabbling has given McCain all the fodder he needs to feed the bull. Here’s what Jacques Gernet states that the Southern Sung dynasty required of its leaders almost a thousand years ago: energy, capacity for hard work, courage, a sense of discipline, tendency not to abuse authority, a tendency not to make blunders, filial piety and fidelity to friends, conduct inspired by a fundamental integrity rather than by ambition, caring for the well-being of those administered, not open to bribes, efficiency, experience, literary ability. As best I can gather from the so-called debates none of the current candidates seem to posses these qualities. Neither does the media which conducts them.
It is the same ol same ol folks. Nothing changes with our whore,media. They make trite and trivial things important ( for example: the inference that you do not seem to be patriotic since you do not wear a flag,lapel pin)and never mention the really important things. Talk about dereliction of duty!
Just do a simple google of who owns ABC, NBC, CBS and FOX and then ask yourself - Where is this liberal media I keep hearing about?
Perhaps our politicians need to give Gotcha answers. I can envision Obama replying to George’s first question, “That’s exactly the kind of question I would expect from Bill Clinton’s communications director, and it surprises me you didn’t recuse yourself from this debate to protect its neutrality.”
I don’t watch Gibson, ot Georgie, but after
last night, I vow never to tune in ABC
while they are on. Why don’t we just
boycott their shows, they’re nothing short
of Faux News.
The coporate press has been Hillary Clinton’s enabler throughout this whole sorry campaign, so this is really nothing new. What is new about it, and somewhat surprising, is how blatant they’ve become in this regard. Only days before a primary they’ve built into such a huge event (that, too, being merely a Clinton talking point uncritically recycled until it becomes “conventional wisdom”), they take to national television, and, in the guise of a “debate,” launch an extended, sustained attack on the eventual Democratic presidential candidate, on behalf of the McCain/Clinton campaign.
Yes, it’s unfair. So how can Obama get this behind him? How can he address a legitimate concern by rural voters? How can he promote dignity? I’d suggest addressing the concern head on. Set up a series of events in which he goes out of his way to listen to the concerns of rural Pennsylvanians, and other rural people. Call it the Barack Obama Listening Tour, or BOLT. Before Gandhi led the Indian effort at independence he toured the villages of India for a year and listened. Not bad preparation if Obama is serious about uniting Americans or representing all Americans as President.
McCain. Obama. Clinton.
Choose your poison.
They’re all FATAL!
Here’s another question not asked that would be an “equal opportunity” embarrasser of both these candidates.
“You both say in different ways that your presidency would end the dominance of ’special interests’ in our national politics. How do you square that with the fact that both of you have raised millions of dollars in campaign contributions from those same interests? For example, the Wall Street firm Goldman Sachs has contributed close to a half million to both your campaigns. Is Wall Street not a ’special interest?’
If, as I suspect, Obama had tried to weasel out of that one by saying that he hasn’t accepted a “dime” from lobbyists, ABC’s researchers could surely have read U.S.A. Today’s article yesterday about the 38 lawyer
“bundlers” for Obama who were employed by law firms which did lobbying business with the government. They could likewise have researched the huge pharmaceutical company contributions to Clinton which the companies denied were influence-seeking but just looking for a “seat at the table” when issues of drug marketing were raised. My point is: why do they let candidates get by with their evasions when a little “follow up” questioning could help get to the truth of the issues being discussed? If the media figures who question candidates in debates are not OUR representatives, asking the questions we need to ask, in whose interests are their questions being asked? Or is that a rhetorical question?
The ‘news’ in America is entertainment for the elite and propaganda for the rest. Professional wrestlers and mainstream media whores are in the same game. America is a fraud.
Hao binh
Amen Galen. Once again, for the umpteenth time, we are stuck picking the least of the evils. The frustrating thing is that there were some decent candidates (Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich, Mike Gravel) but the combination of a dumbed down America and lack of corporate financing/media coverage made it all but impossible for any of these to win. Ya know…Canada is lookin better and better each day!
It is interesting to read the reactions of some of the posters here.
One need not be a supporter of Obama (and I’d consider myself only a reluctant one at best) to be dismayed by last night’s “debate.” What was scandalous (although hardly novel these days) was not the obvious bias against Obama during the first 50 minutes, but the insipidness of the questions themselves.
That Charlie Gibson and George Stephanopoulos (in his role as the returning prodigal son/water-carrier for the Clinton campaign) thought that these “questions” merited serious consideration would be laughable were it not so lamentable.
What the “debate” showed was not that Obama can’t take the heat, but that the brains and imaginations of Gibson, Stephanopoulos and Clinton are all overheated. It showed that the mainstream media really is quite cynical and disdainful towards that mythical beast called the “average American voter” who, we are meant to believe, really cares deeply about who Obama shares a boardroom with once a quarter.
They don’t. But that’s no surprise at all, since that’s why we have folks like Gibson and Stephanopoulos. Americans have to be made to care about these “issues,” so the media employ folks like Charlie and George to manufacture both the desire/interest and the product itself.
How else can a system like ours do its work if not by getting us to care about who wears a flag pin rather than the number of people coming home draped in flags or the countless numbers being slaughtered on its behalf?
The high point was Stephanopolis FORCING Hillary to admit with “Yes, Yes, Yes” that Barack is indeed electable, and making a point of not allowing her to dodge that yes/no question—which she otherwise intended to do so that her campaign could keep dwelling on that racist-themed rumor of unelectability..
The low point was Gibson and Stephanopolis trying to put both candidates in a box with demands for promises about no tax increases for people earning SPECIFIC brackets of income. Tax law is made by Congress, not the president except as influenced by the veto pen, and they both should have responded that they would let Congress handle it
IF you were as disgusted with the content of this “debate” as I was, please go on the ABC website and let them know what you think. Hopefully with a few million nastygrams from us, they might get the message that we as voters would like a bit more substance.
I skipped it. Washington is a sewer where politicians are bought by those with money. Change must first take place within yourselves, then your communities. The corruption and power of Washington has grown beyond your control. Change what you can and brace for the rest. Puleeeese do not dwell on the negative but instead neutralize it and bring it into balance with your mind and actions locally.
This was a prime example of what the corporate media is in this country. Nothing but focus on issues that do not matter and the tendancy to “frame” the debate in a way that limits any productive debate. News organizations should not hold or sponsor debates. It is disgusting and insulting.
Anyone notice last night when Obama said that George H.W. Bush had a smart foreign policy in the early 90’s?
I usually never watch commercial television. I thought this might be worth watching. I’m back to not watching commercial tv. What a joke!
Why are “we” wasting our time even discussing this, when the facts and math are clear: HRC cannot win the nom. End of line.
Unless, of course, “we” want to lose, which is looking more and more like a fact everyday.
“In the latest Rasmussen Reports daily presidential tracking poll, the Arizona senator is ahead of Obama 47% to 43%. Matched up with Clinton, McCain leads her 49% to 41%.”
And he’s running on a campaign of “More Cheney/Bush, but with a slightly different flavor of insanity.”
The fact that more illegal wars, more money for the rich, more hell for We The People is ahead in the polls proves neither Dem candidate is qualified for the position.
Question: if Nader was a “spoiler” in 00, which he was not, then what does that make Hillary? Super-duper spoiler who might, in fact, be a Rove plant meant to hand McCrazy the dictatorship?
Today’s mainstream media is nothing more than the realization of Orwell’s ‘Ministry of Truth”.
Reporters get paid to ask tough questions.
Huh? I’ve never seen any curveballs thrown at the Bush Administration.
Hey folks,
Stephen Colbert is apparently having HRC on the show tonight, and there’s a forum here for people to post a suggestion for what Stephen should ask her.
Who knows whether anyone at the show reads the darn thing, but thus far there have only been 13 replies.
Here’s mine:
I’m not sure what he should ask her, but here’s how I would lead off the show:
“Nation, I don’t know about you, but after listening to last night’s debate I can say along with Iggy Pop that ‘of course I’ve had it in the ear before!’”
That would be a nice way to kick-off the evening.
If you thought the ABC debate was bad, image what the Faux debate would have been like.
“45 minutes for any substantive questions - wow! But once the real questions that matter were asked, Hillary Clinton was the clear winner: she DOES have a better grasp ..”
That is a load of crap. The first half was battering Obama and then an acknowledgement that they hadn’t given Clinton as much speaking opportunity, so we were treated to her droning on exclusively on the issues.
If you couldn’t see that clearly than your perspective is warped.
abc is owned by GE and GE is owned by the rich robber barons who tricks and brainwashes to make WE the people their slaves….. this is what our wise founders fought against all the wealth and power with the few the kings of england….
lets WE the people come together against these people that has destroyed our wise and brave founders country and back to what the founders fought and died for….
how do we come together and fight.. first find people that are TRULY trust worthy and follow who they say to elect… one of these is THE BOSS bruce springsteen and the other is jimmy carter.. when BOTH these people edorses a candidate we the people should follow in mass …. the BOSS and carter both support obama… so its OBAMA is the one we should support also..
someone should make a list of all the companies that GE owns and boycott everyone of them… ALWAYS !! cause we now know THEY are proven enemies of WE the people!! and if we do this then the other robber baron owners will start to do better…
WE THE PEOPLE!!!!!
Awful… simply awful.
1) Is ABC really so broke that they can’t afford to broadcast an important public service without commercials? Stunning. Bring back PBS and League of Women Voters.
2) I had hoped that ABC, OWNED BY DISNEY, an “entertainment” company, theoretically not hooked in to the war economy… would do a better job. Very disappointing.
3) Despicable use of conservative frames. Embarrasing to see two employees of an American Corporation demanding “pledges” from U.S. Senators. Their arrogance will be their downfall.
4) Gibson closed with a remark that “neither candidate can win on pledged delegates, so what would you say the supers…”
WRONG! Do the math Charlie! Obama has it sewn up unless HRC can stage a massive coup among the supers. Less likely today after her rambling, no-eye-contact, responses last night.
5) Kudos to Obama for talking about “manufactured” issues. He should have pushed back harder on the “moderators”.
6) George: I’m only taping the last ten minutes of your show from now on. (The In Memoriam and the Sunday Funnies).
7) Charlie: when did a $200,000 income (3.4% of the population) become “middle class”? Retire in disgrace to your country estate… NOW!
How about this ?
We’ll boycott George Stephanoupoulos’(sp) Sunday morning show to show our disapproval of his ‘gotcha’ performance against Obama! No more THIS WEEK at 9:00 A.M. for the duration of this campaign - let his ratings s-l-i-d-e and that will be our gotcha! performance!
I allready boycott all of those shows, don’t all of you?? I watched the debate last night - it was the first time I had watched anything on network news. How about a Democracy Now! moderated national debate?? That would be something!
How many of them has flags pins on them ?
Ya know what? I think we should have a forum where registered voters ask the candidates questions like, “If Congress hands you a bill to sign which allows cuts to the military and an increase in domestic programs, would you sign it or veto it?”
This media crap is buffoonery at its finest. Wag the Dog 2 is now in full throttle.
devil1,
Are we supposed to infer from your comments that you’re writing from a country other than the USA? If so, would you please tell us? And also tell us WHY you think McCain is a good choice?
RE: Bittergate
Is anyone not amused although also perturbed at the sght of ALL of these rich-filth (yes- that includes Sen. Obama) elites deigning to understand middle and lower (economic) class america? TRULY disgusting the whole lot of them.
Sen. Obama does come out the best because I do believe that he meant to say that the people have become “embittered” by the brutal neo-human “government” and the reality it has created, rather than being a “bitter” people.
There is a world of difference between the two semantically, and “words do matter”, ya know!
Do they still have Good Morning America on tv? I remember they would take the camera out on the street where a mob of Americans would be gathered to get in the video with the weather guy and Katie and Matt. They would be holding happy birthday signs and little flags. Some would be wearing rubber moose antlers. All would be screaming and clapping like idiots at a pizza party. Americans. You don’t meet too many of them here inside the fort, but out there in the woods for miles in all directions there are millions and millions of them.
The dark wisdom that will salve my grief when the next team of brain dead leaders climb into the driver’s seat is the thought of perfect justice. The presidency of George Bush was not a mistake or an act of thievery or a stroke of bad luck. He was simply the appropriate president for all those folks down on Times Square, the only imaginable brain for the American beast. We get the presidents and the debate moderators we deserve.
The happy part will come next year when Doom n Gloom and poet and KEM and coco and Siouxrose and Coyotita and Galen and myself are finally forced to move to France to find health care. After a couple of years the toxic food additives will be flushed away by good wine, and the silliness of our futile politics will evaporate from our minds.
Clinton or Obama could have picked up a lot of votes if they were to say “After I’m elected, I will
petition the FCC to cancel your licence”. If you want to see a real debate, have Nader ask questions
for 2 hours. This country is sliding into Fascism with the blessings of the “Media”.
Email ABC, let them know how disgusted you are. Tell everyone you know what a travesty it was. Revolt! We’re mad as hell, and we’re not going to take it anymore!
Some of the official spinmeisters on the networks have gone into overdrive to defend the debate, claiming that it was a legitimate look at “character.” Of course it isn’t surprising that they are saying this because it is the kind of thing they’ve been trading in it for so long.
I just heard someone over at MSNBC claim that this line of questioning is totally legitimate because: A) People on the campaign trail (i.e. the media creation called the “average American”) ask these very questions; and B) Because these are the sorts of questions Obama will get from Republicans should he win the nomination.
I’d love to see some hard data on how many “average Americans” out there really approach any of the candidates and ask them this sort of nonsense—”Senator Obama, can you tell me why you are on the board of a charity with Bill Ayers?”
You won’t get hard data from the media however, because they ran out of that particular commodity a long time ago. I think hard data was severely rationed during WWII and the world market simply never bounced back from the global shortages of the post-war years.
Anyway, this is the favorite line of defense of the major media outlets, done to cover for the immense disdain they have for their viewers and for their economically-driven need to boost their ratings by manufacturing “issues” and remaking themselves as a form of info-tainment in order to compete within an entertainment saturated media landscape.
The major media (and politicians or political wannabes) will tell you endlessly that the first half of the “debate” was a revealing investigation of character, but don’t buy it. There are plenty of ways one could probe the character of the candidates AND still address substantive issues, but this wasn’t one of those times.
I thought Barack Obama handled the flag pin fairly well last night except I would have used the following analogy instead:
Our country is like a house on fire. I mean it’s nearly fully engulfed. There are so many problems! Then along comes an honest, brave, well-meaning man fully up to the challenge of putting out this disastrous fire arrives. He’s got the fire hose hooked up to the hydrant. But the owners of the house are standing by and yell out “Hey, wait a minute, you’re not wearing your flag pin! We want to know if you’re for real!” Huh? At this critical moment Americans are supposedly fixated on a flag pin? A mere symbol of a symbol? And don’t forget, George Bush and Co. and MSM have been wearing their flag pins at the same time they’ve been pouring gasoline on the fire!
I just googled “owner CBS and found out that
all 4 major networks are owned by major corporations. Disney owns ABC, as well as ESPN. NBC is owned by GE, CBS is owned by Viacom. We all know who owns Faux Noise. The
only TV outlets that I have found that do
a creditable job are FSTV and LINK TV. Unfortunatly they both are available only if
you happen to have Dish Network satellite TV
ABC is just another FAUX News. I will never watch their Charlie show again.
I still do not understand why all these candidates parrot GWB and
Cheney’s lines about Iran attacking Israel. Iran has not attacked any other country in over 700 years. Why do they think they are stupid enough to do it now? If any country would attack another country look to the USA or Israel to do it for no reason. The NIE said that Iran had ceased their weapons program in 2003. Iran is complying with the Non Proliferation treaty in making power from nuclear. It is legimate. Why is the US the arbiter of what is right for all countries in the world? We are the world’s worst terrorist nation. We have no right to tell other countries what to do.
George and Charlie were a disgrace. There should be NO moderators. There should be only a time-keeper so that each candidate would get equal time.
The dumbest question I ever heard was why Obama was not wearing a flag pin—just goes to prove that the media has been dumbed down by those in the media.
It was refreshing to see a flag-less lapel on a politician but my heart belongs to Nader.
I’m very happy I didn’t watch the debate. Viewing the campaign from my new home in Cuenca, Ecuador provides a clear perspective. Why? No USA MSM escept CNN International which is much the same as drinking “agua lite.” I learned much more about Senator Obama by watching a series of YouTube videos featuring Michelle Obama. She is both smart and hot. When I wasn’t watching MO on YouTube I was reading Obama’s first book — “Dreams from My Father.” So, if you really want to know what is happening get off MSM, spend an hour surfing through YouTube and settle down with a good book.
PS - If you haven’t read Naomi Klein’s “THE SHOCK DOCTRINE - The Rise of Disaster Capitalism” then you really don’t have an understanding of what has really happened to the USA and the rest of the world in the past 40 years since Tricky Dick lied to us that he was going to get us out of Vietnam and then proceeded to allow the CIA and the Chicago School of Economics to assassinate Salvador Allende and stick Pinochet, the first of a series of Latin American and Eastern Europe dictator fools, into office.
If you think that type of behavior is over take a clear eyed look at Iraq and what we are attempting to do to their economic system.
Long live social democracy the only truly sensible economic system for the vast majority of the people.
Thanks for bringing up the Iran nonsense “Kittylady”.
That whole exchange began with the flat assertion by Gibson that, “Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons…” A gross exaggeration, if not a flat lie.
So far, Iran has pursued legal nuclear technology that could be used for weapons or energy production. They stoppped their meager weapons research program when we eliminated their primary threat, Saddam Hussien.
That whole line of questioning about extending the U.S. nuclear “umbrella” to Israel (which can take care of itself, by all reports) and Saudi Arabia was just crazy!
So - if we extend our nuclear “tripwire” to Israel, and Russia extends theirs to Iran - where does that put us?
Right back in the Cold War… the dream of every war-head conservative and every Jihadist.
I was not satisfied with Obama’s response. He barely fended it their demands for a commitment - but Israel is a “Third Rail” issue, where candidates must tread carefully.
If you do not want to e-mail ABC call 212-456-7777 or 818-460-7477. Or contact at all of the above and Disney too.
I couldn’t agree more. I tried to watch it for 45 minutes or so but it was so infuriating I had to go elsewhere. Hostile, irrelevant, banal, pathetic display of the moral and intellectual bankrupcy of the corporate media.
Wanna make some money? Create lapel pins of a fist masturbating a tiny erection and sell them for $1,000 each to every hack tinhorn motherf*#%$%^ at every MSM outlet in the nation. You’ll earn enough money to move to France . . . or better yet, to Norway, the nation with the world’s highest livability index, according to the United Nations. MCMLXXXIV
Put pressure on “Freepress.net”, “ReclaimTheMedia”, and every other organization that is involved in media reform.
While they are goofing off, with geek issues, the MSM is stealing our election. Which is more important? Net Neutrality or watching another McCain take office?
Let’s get those media reformers on task!!
Sorry we have to choose. But the oligarchs are EXPERT at creating a huge new conflagration, forcing us to join the bucket brigade and disrupting our other work. Until the left develops the flexibility and determination of the rightwingers, with their OODA Loop, game theory, we will keep on losing. –Todd.
UGGHHH……I met George Stephanopolous randomly on the street once in New Hampshire, when Edwards was campaigning in 2003 or 2004 (I can’t remember the exact date) and he was reporting on his campaign. I asked George if he had ever heard of Project for a New American Century (PNAC) and he calimed he had not. I told him what it was and that he should report on it (huge story, right? Inside scoop!), and that it was his RESPONSIBILITY as an American journalist to report the truth and inform the public. He pretty much sneered at me and walked away, seemingly annoyed. And yes, he is very short in person.
So I don’t really expect much of him (or Charlie there…I mean, look at GMA), but there has to be something sinister going on here beyond just simple bias! Why else would they have been so insistent on asking those manipulative questions over and over? Kudos to Obama for finally getting fed up and saying what those questions really were(I wish he’d been more aggressive from the get-go though). How ironic that ABC thought(pretended) they were asking the “tough” questions. I suppose less informed people might believe that that’s what a tough question is, not realizing it lacks substance.
Did anyone see at the very end when the crowd kind of booed and Charlie said “They’re turning against me!” Yeah, buddy, they ARE, because they can see through your BS!
What about congress? Can anybody tell me how many incumbents have been removed in the primaries? Do we have any new candidates for congress? The issue should be about democrats removing democrats who were part of this congress in favor of new candidates. Are there any at all? I DON’T EVEN KNOW. When it comes to changing incumbents I hear nothing at all. NOTHING. Even Pelosi is going to win. Reid will still be there. Conyers will still be there. Emmanuel? still there. What is this?
I just finished signing a number of petitions
sponsored by various organizations including,
but not limited to Move-on.org.
I also emailed ABC and told them that I had
taken the local TV outlet off my TV menu.
The truly important races are for congress.
Why are people calling this a “debate?” I did not get a chance to see the event (and from the posts everyone here has made and on other websites it sounds like I did not miss out on anything), but if it was a one-sided “hit job” then call it what it is. As far as Bob and Chuck go, what else would you expect from a couple of corporate mouthpieces? In all of the debates I watched, I can’t recall one tough question the moderator(s) asked to any of the candidates. Please do not refer to these corporate controlled events as debates because they are not.
Oh, by the way, David Brooks gave Bob and Chuck an “A” for their performance and questions. Is David Brooks even a journalist?
The whole super-long election process in the US is retarded. It’s all show and no substance… it’s a long drawn out drama that seems designed to bring out the worst in people. I’ve never understood why you Americans consider that democracy.
The media for the most part has given Obama a pass - Rezko, Auchi, Exelon, no-show on the Senate Subcommittee on Europe and NATO, even Judicial Watch can’t find evidence of any legislative accomplishments during his term in the Illinois Legislature. Now when the media finally begins to ask him some questions his supporters get pissed. What troubles me is why they aren’t more curious as to what comprises the actions or constitues the opinions of the man they support. This man is running for the President of the United States!
the medias sympathetic tone for h clinton has been constant throughout the primary season, from the bizarre attention accorded hillary’s contrived ‘tearful’ moment - to the pursuit and obsession w/ secondary comments. (b clinton, g ferraro, r wright etc..)
it’s a sick game for the clintons. they actually enjoy this routine, the national election. destroy the opponent, capture the publics attention, honor the worthy wealthy donors that finance our shenanigans and those who have the power to increase our personal wealth exponentially. praise our leader sam walton….
hillary and bill are 2 of the most narcissistic people in america. the embody the ugly american characteristics of greed, power, arrogance and deception.
they live for controversy and find every opportunity to exploit others weaknesses for their own political/economic interests (power $$$ power $$$).it’s reflected in their negative campaign tactics.
the media exploits the issue for profit, lets face it shakespeare for the masses spread out week by week serially on television, that’s a highly evolved complex propoganda machine at work that draws in viewers ($$$). go charles.. go geroge….go abc…
the constitution is explicit - no 3rd terms for former presidents. bill clinton cannot be president again (this is not russia folks), we cannot return to the 90’s. and she is the weaker candidate against mccain.
this BS campaign that plays off of ignorance, racial and economic fears will end soon.
how will the authorities approach the mcbeths? how exactly will monsignors gore and carter (the 2 priests who will be assigned the coveted roles of ‘exorcists’), w/ their assistant j edwards esq., approach the matter? someone will have to distract bill (maybe an escort from a swanky escort sevice in NY?? - could happen) the 2 priests will need to be voluntarily escorted to the site of the possessed by a skilled intermediary (oprah/pelosi/dean - ‘hey hillary you really should go visit al in nashville’). they’ll have to have a manila envelope during the conference (i mean exorcism), one that shows clear links … enough said.
exorcisms can go bad occasionally, joe lieberman couldn’t honestly call himself a republican (after he served in the senate and ran in the democratic primary back in 06) , which is where his true allegiances lie (hence he endorses mccain). however, he can remain in independent land on a 49-50 split - giving him an exaggerated influence over democratic politics. lieberman - botched exorcism (aipac influenced i’m sure), he needs to go visit a high priest like pat buchanon - perhaps a weekend retreat - and get thing squared away ideologically.
gore/carter could approch the mcbeths in many ways, they’re talented flip-floppers - but they also have water from the wells of the hearts and minds of the democratic voters that are demanding a successful exorcism before the convention. allot of voodoo riding on the backs of our priests gore/ carter… godspeed….
the fate of humanity could be hanging in the balance (mccain vistory)…
..peace…
I’m absolutely fed up with the transparent sensationalism and dumbed down crap that passes for “serious questioning” during these so-called debates, which are really nothing more than tabloid inquisitions conducted by corporate media Torquemadas against captive candidates. That these insipid, redundant doublespeak dialogues have become the gold standard of presidential “debate” is prima facie evidence of the profoundly degenerative impact of television “reality”, and the application of subliminal, corrosive tools of propaganda to the political discourse in this country.
Was that a repetitive, soft spotlight on a frozen Chelsea Clinton in the audience, peering out toward the stage in each shot as if she were the abandoned heroine in some cheesy retro romance movie? What’s the point of Charles Gibson melodramatically explaining the dumb debate rules as if this was seminal JFK-Nixon in 1960, when there’ve been 21 of these mind-numbing, automatic puppet shows during this campaign alone? Why–when most of the electorate has a stunningly contemptuous opinion of both politicians and members of the corporate media, reflected in recent polls again and again–is it that Obama’s (truthful) remarks about small-town bitterness and bigotry are treated by the media with the same disdain as, say, Louis Farrakhan’s infamous comments about the Jewish religion? Could this be a not-so-veiled attempt to join Obama and Farrakhan at the hip, Obama and radicals in general, Obama and alleged anti-American “white-haters” like Reverend Wright, Obama and ’60’s anti-war bombers? Obama the true subversive, the actual Muslim Mole, the Al Qaeda double agent? You can’t convince me that this pernicious objective is not behind a great deal of how he is deconstructed in the mainstream media, by the media themselves. This is not journalism…it’s propaganda. Dr. Goebbels would applaud.
This is another remarkable demonstration of covert media collusion in trashing a candidate who’s unacceptable to the white power structure in this nation, and for that matter, around the world. A black president? Get Real! To paraphrase the most vile language of white supremacy groups, Obama is nothing more than a “mud-person”, and a mongrel at that. Compared to him, a lilly white, former Goldwater Girl, precedent-setting female from an affluent GOP family (let’s face it, when you look at her closely, HRC is strictly GOP Lite wearing a liberal mask) is the ideal centrist Democrat candidate, especially when facing the white-on-white Grandpa McBush.
It’s my opinion that much of what’s been thrown at Obama by the corporate media and Clinton PR machine–especially by Mark Penn and his crew–is thinly disguised racism, designed to blunt his amazing oratory and charismatic, unexpected ascendency in this race. What a supremely ironic joke: the team that elevated the “First Black President” Bill Clinton to the White House is now trashing Obama as “unqualified” and “unprepared”, with WJC himself comparing Obama’s win in SC to that of Jesse Jackson’s decades ago.
Obama, quite sadly, is feeding this scheme with his passivity during these attacks, but I can understand his reticence. How would he be depicted in the media were he to become angry, even defiant, at these intentional mischaracterizations of his comments? No matter how honest or authentic he might appear to some of us, he would be painted as just another intimidating, or worse, “uppity boy”, as was the clear case when he was publicly called a “boy” by the Congressman from Kentucky this past week.
He’s being baited. So far, he’s been smart enough not to take the bait. That Billary is at the other end of the line, flickin’ that lure along the surface of the water almost every day, is not a surprise…she’s desperate to retrieve the prize that was supposed to inevitably be hers just six months ago. Her spouse, the former
Snake-Oil-Salesman-in-Chief, hasn’t been too subtle in his allusions.
MLK is spinning in his grave. Maybe Malcolm X too. In his grave, J. Edgar Hoover is grinning like the overstuffed chesire cat he was. The more things change…
the 2 biggest support for any democrat candidate is first.. the BOSS.. !! bruce springsteen the blue collar workers IDOL the one that they trust more than anyone….. and the next is jimmy carter and BOTH these are supporting obama…
and since the BOSS is so beloved in PA.. and the dem gov rendell going against the BOSS the gov is now shaking like a leaf.. cause he can see how his career in politics as a democrat is over !!
the biggest supporters of the working class are the BOSS and jimmy carter and now they are pointing to obama for all the working class to follow..and sn bob casey of pA also is high up on the working classes list of most trusted!!
no one should trust the media who is owned by the robber barons and who are trying to make slaves out of WE THE PEOPLE.. its just plain stupid to think the media is NOT trying to help their owners
just maybe the common enemy of all middle and lower class will finally be highlighted.. follow the money… and who owns what… so the media is the enemy of the middle and lower class..
the mods should have asked the 2 most important questions who did and who did not agree to go to war…. and also explain the healt care plan of hillarys.. many think its like europes where the rich is taxed to pay for it…. NOPE its more like the wal-mart corporate plan where the workers pay the ins out of their already lowered wages…..
actually hillarys health care plan is a way to HEAD OFF the biggest harm to the rich the health care plan like europes.. this is what the mods should have explored.
heck i even i thought the healh plans was gonna be paid by higher taxes on the rich .. when it came out in dribs that hillary will garnish workers wages to pay the ins then i finally knew… all people should know hillarys health plan is NOT like europes or canada but a plan to HELP the corporate world and to head off the harmful plan that taxes the rich…
uglyness in the media and the govt …
The moderators continue to lower their status as each debate is aired. Where is the dignity that should be afforded to someone who could be our next president. CNN has done an equally poor job. What we want is to be able to find the candidate who is most able to take our country in a new direction. All of this, he said, she said, is just plain stupid.
Very interesting…. so ABC, owned by Disney, seems to be slanting the debate in favor of Clinton huh? The other night I was watching NBC, owned by GE, and they were pitching easy questions in favor of Obama and negative ones against Clinton. I don’t find any of it reassuring though… Disney sold the Cold War to the American public with cartoons promoting the virtues of the arms race. And GE, well they actually build the missiles that ARE the arms race. It seems the mega monopoly company that is capitalism has chosen their candidates. And whoever gets in office between the three- McCain, Obama , or Clinton…. I’m sure the mono-corpo-oligarchy will be quite pleased however the cards fall.
I think the real target was the Democratic party — the corporate media wants McCain, and this debate with it’s triviality was to make both candidates look bad. Do you think there would have been such a travesty if two Republicans were debating?
Eric J-D say:
“One need not be a supporter of Obama (and I’d consider myself only a reluctant one at best) to be dismayed by last night’s ‘debate.’”
No, indeed. In fact, even one so reactionary as Jonah Goldberg agreed:
“I’m no leftwing blogger, but I can only imagine how furious they must be with the debate so far. Nothing on any issues. Just a lot of box-checking on how the candidates will respond to various Republican talking points come the fall. Now I think a lot of those Republican talking points are valid and legitimate. But if I were a ‘fighting Dem’ who thinks all of these topics are ‘despicable distractions from the “real issues,’ I would find this debate to be nothing but Republican water-carrying.”
Frank1569 writ:
“Why are ‘we’ wasting our time even discussing this, when the facts and math are clear: HRC cannot win the nom. End of line.”
Not quite the end of line–I would add “…and this has been the case for over two months, now.” Then give the “end of line.”
Those in the corporate press are milking the horse-race for all it’s worth, and they’ve been Hillary Clinton’s enabler from the beginning, but she has already lost the majority of the states, she has lost a majority of the delegates, and she’s going to lose a majority of the popular vote. The only way HRC can “win” is to get the superdelegates to pull a George Bush Jr. on us and wash away the results of the elections. That has been her only strategy for “victory” for MONTHS, now, and those in the press have, for the most part, done their level best to conceal this fact from the public, which is one of the only reasons Clinton is still in this race.
One of the other reasons: Limbaugh, Hannity, and several other right-wing talkers, terrified of the prospect of facing Obama in the fall, have been telling their followers to cross over and vote for Clinton, and they’re doing it in droves. The Pennsylvania primary is coming up on Tuesday, and PA saw the largest number of people change their party affiliation right before the vote in the state’s entire history, almost all of them going from Repub to Demo.
My progressive friends:
1. The debate succeeded in being different from the countless other Democratic Debates of the past 17 months. Give ABC some credit for taking the gloves off - and if you don’t think the questions were relevant maybe you are not a middle income high school level education Pen-voter.
Quoting my mom - maybe you’ve gotten too smart for your own good.
2. Yes - the questions were ‘Republican-like’ as many of my Republican friends will admit, but should not the Democratic nominee be ready to answer and expecting these type of questions in the general race?
3. There is a difference between Clinton/McCain or Obama/McCain - let’s be clear on this. If you don’t vote Democrat you are supporting Bush’s policies.
learnfromthepast sayeth:
“The debate succeeded in being different from the countless other Democratic Debates of the past 17 months. Give ABC some credit for taking the gloves off - and if you don’t think the questions were relevant maybe you are not a middle income high school level education Pen-voter. Quoting my mom - maybe you’ve gotten too smart for your own good.”
Or maybe people who think flag lapel-pins, Rev. Wright, or distortions of Obama’s dead-on analysis of what’s happening in small towns is a lot more important than, say, the actual issues that confront the U.S. are just too stupid for their own good.
No, ABC doesn’t deserve any “credit” for what they did last night–bring their Clinton-pimping into the open more overtly than ever before.
“Yes - the questions were ‘Republican-like’ as many of my Republican friends will admit, but should not the Democratic nominee be ready to answer and expecting these type of questions in the general race?”
Yes, from the Republican slime-machine, not from a so-called Democratic competitor (who isn’t really a competitor), and her corporate press enablers.
“There is a difference between Clinton/McCain or Obama/McCain - let’s be clear on this. If you don’t vote Democrat you are supporting Bush’s policies.”
Anyone who has been voting for Hillary Clinton has been voting for Bush’s policies anyway. A vote for Hillary Clinton has, for MONTHS, been a vote for McCain, and she’s been acting as nothing more than an agent of the McCain campaign during the whole of that period.
devil’s back,
Long on bluster and insults, short on smarts and substance - a perfect example of modern day repuke politics.
I missed the debate. I tried to tune into ABC, but all I got was a hilarious SNL skit with these morons asking absurd questions dreamt up by LSD stoked writers. The HRC character (complete with daughter in the audience – where do these writers get this stuff?!?) was vacuous enough, but the BHO character came across as a little too composed and intelligent. Other than that, great theater!
By the way, if you want to win an election, start wearing a lapel flag that’s twice the size of the current model. That would make you twice as patriotic as anyone else. Politics is not brain surgery.
Well of course Obama got the most “gotcha” questions! They’ve been trying to take him down for so long now since he came into this race and dethroned Clinton as the inevitable nominee. They want so badly to tarnish his image, to find skeletons in his closet, to do anything to discredit him in any way that they can. This is the MSM strategy and we all know it.
I could not believe that they lobbed so many “gotcha” questions at Obama. It did take 45 minutes before they even addressed the so-called “kitchen table” issues that we’re all worried about. I’m struggling harder than ever just to keep my head above water. Between medical bills, ridiculous gas prices, food prices that give me sticker shock and the rest of my bills, I’m barely making it, and I live frugally as it is. How are people like me with long and steady careers who thought that they’d be living comfortably by now (I’m in my 50’s) supposed to retire when the time comes? How am I supposed to survive these times when it’s costing me nearly every dime I make just to survive?
I want answers, and I could care less about who’s associated with whom and who said what when. I want answers to the kitchen table issues that all of us are talking about these days. Shame on the debate moderators for lobbing so many “gotcha” questions at Obama and then lobbing softballs at Clinton. It was a despicable performance and I’m glad to see that I am not alone in thinking so.
Back to the lapel flag for a moment – people, this issue has legs – if you doubled both the length and width of the current model, you would actually have four times the patriotic area as a neocon lapel flag – that is if I can trust the godless scientist what invented geometry – making you FOUR times as patriotic as the other guy. Think of the impact that will have as the convention draws near! The lapel flag industry will boom. Soon, sherpas will be carrying thousands of gigantic lapel flags for all legitimate front runners. The glory of rampant patriotism truly boggles the mind.
classicliberal2 - you say:
Yes, from the Republican slime-machine, not from a so-called Democratic competitor (who isn’t really a competitor), and her corporate press enablers.
That was my point - the questions are coming and I believe ABC gave Obama a wake-up call to prepare for what’s ahead. Let’s not pretend we are somehow “higher” “smarter” “holier” it just seems the Republicans have an easier time at slimming via the MSM.
BTW - Thanks for proving my contention that misogyny is alive and well. You must really know Hillary and what’s in her heart.
Can you google Axelrod, energy lobby and Daley and how Obama won his first election by disqualifying his Democratic competitors? Forget about Rezko who? $50k, $150k $250k in contributions. And what is Rezko on trial for?- extorting contributions for political (read Chicago politics) favors. Politics is War and Obama is the latest Axelrod brand for the Hopeful.
I agree kittyladyoregon about Iran and israel. Just because Iran said that israel should be taken off the map, doesn’t mean they will do it. Imagine if Iran really did bomb israel. They would instantly be “taken off the map” by us. Just because someone says something doesn’t mean they’ll do it. Look what we got the last 8 years.
The biggest threat to the hegemony of the corporate ruling class is democracy. This class would prefer that everybody just stay home and be politically disengaged and let them continue to run the world.
Since this same class owns and sets the agenda for the mass media, it is not surprising that they’ll use tactics that try to disengage citizens from the political process. Their attacks on Obama serves this purpose by:
* trivializing the real issues which are the issues that would lead to the questioning of their class rule.
* casting doubts about the only campaign that is arousing a growing democratic upsurge after 30 years of apathy towards the democratic political process
The ruling class will do whatever it takes to try and instill within the working class the futility of seeking democratic gains including trying to dissuade those on the left. By reading comments here, they appear to be succeeding. The biggest horror the ruling class sees is a landslide victory by those forces demanding “change”, because real change ultimately means challenging their class rule. They look at Obama’s campaign, see that the call for “change” has been growing in popularity and are on a mission to reverse that trend.
The role of the left at this time isn’t to get into endless debates and critiques of whether the questions at a debate were fair or not, as we all know they were not. The role of the left is to extend democracy - plain and simple. Time spent writing letters to ABC criticizing their handling of the process is a waste of time and effort. Time is better spent organizing ones neighbours, friends and co-workers to bring about a landslide victory for “change”. After this is obtained, ie the election of Obama, the nitty gritties of what this change will include becomes THE political agenda and struggle of the left.
Whew! Somebody light a match.
Wearily, he said, having posted twice already on this string of comments a couple of the questions that WEREN’T asked at that debate. Some were questions about candidates’ statements that any awake and aware and responsible journalist should have raised. To wit:
“Senator Clinton, you just said, in response to my question whether the U.S. should consider an Iranian attack on Israel as an attack on the United States, that this country should have an “umbrella” of protection against nuclear attack under which any country could come that would forego its in efforts at nuclear weapons production. Since your answer referred to a question about Israel, I assume that you expected that country to fit under that umbrella. But doesn’t Israeli itself have nuclear capabilities that we have helped to develop? So could people living in Tel Aviv, or in fact Philadelphia, enjoy the protection of that umbrella? Senator Obama?”
Would they dare deny that we have provided such support to Israel…lest their responses should suggest the least reticence to supporting Israel’s “right to resist” by any means that Israelis choose to use?
Game: get the Shiites and Sunnis to fight so the US can gather up the spoils.
Game: set up a ‘resistance’ in Haiti to take out the democratically elected president, so the US gains control.
Game: get Clinton and Obama to fight and look bad, and Democrats look trivial.
Game: infiltrate a peace group or message board and get people tearing at each other’s throats to stop any progress.
Game: support terrorists who raid and set bombs in Iran to weaken the government.
It’s called divide and conquer, and it’s an old standby with the fascists.
At the age of 56, I finally just got cable. Now I don’t have to watch network crap anymore, I can watch cable crap. Most of the time I switch back and forth between Keith Olberman and Comedy Central.
Truthmonger: Ahmedinjehad did not say Israel should be wiped of the map. He agreed with Khomeini that the GOVERNMENT of Israel should be discarded. Don’t help spread disinformation.
learnfromthepast sayeth:
“BTW - Thanks for proving my contention that misogyny is alive and well. You must really know Hillary and what’s in her heart.
You don’t have to display any “misogyny” (you don’t seem to know the meaning of the word), or to “really know Hillary and what’s in her heart” to acknowledge the facts I outlined. She’s acting as nothing more than a de facto agent of the McCain campaign, and has been for months. These are facts, not speculations. She can’t win. The only thing she’s done is to try to destroy the winning candidate, in the vain hopes of getting the superdelegates to pull a George Bush Jr. and overturn the results of the election, coronating her instead. She’s lost to Obama, and she can’t beat McCain–that’s why Republicans are crossing over to vote for her in record numbers. They want their own party to win, and she’s the best way for that to happen.
endCapitalism (above) makes a number of good points. If there is one thing that the left in this country has forgotten how to do it is to organize effectively and to get people involved in the long, slow slog towards creating the conditions for a better world.
But I have to disagree with a couple of things:
1) an Obama victory–should it happen–should certainly not be viewed as a mandate for the kind of change those on the left would like to see. I prefer to think of it as the application of an emergency break rather than as a change of destination.
2) because the media exert a powerful influence in society, I think part of the work of the left needs to involve critical reflection on the role media play in American political life. In other words, the left needs to engage the issue of the mediated reality with which we are surrounded rather than simply dismissing it as a distraction. It is far more powerful than that.
Didn’t Ahmedinjehad say something like Israel should be ignored historically or something to that effect? It’s easy for the U.S. and Israel to lie and say he said it should be wiped off the “map,” since he doesn’t make his speeches in English and since the U.S. and Israel are itching to bomb Iran and steal its oil. There’s no lie they won’t tell in order to make war with an oil-rich Muslim country (or with oil-rich Venezuela, for that matter).