Cicero: "Freedom is participation in power."

Twelvepax, with your scrambled feedback and fairytale prescriptions, well hot-shot, you aren't worthy of any respect yourself. You sound like a punk right-wing Libertarian rent-a-cop who lacks any knowledge of basic American history. How do you think women or blacks got the right to vote? How do you think workers got any labor rights at all? How do you think the World War One bonus marchers finally got their bonuses? Because "respectable average Americans" like you just decided to hand these things out to them out of the kindness of their hearts? They had to organize, march and take their lumps from the police pigs and company thugs of their day as well. And no doubt listen to naysaying shit-heels like you whine about their tactics as they were beaten, shot, force-fed or killed in or out of jail. No significant progressive change comes without struggle and armed retaliation against street protests runs through the core of American history going back the Abolitionists. Who the hell do you think you are spouting off about what progressives need to do to earn the respect of "average Americans?" Why should we, or anybody, for that matter, listen to an ignoramus like you? Those of us in the activist communities for decades have paid more dues and accomplished more for the betterment of this nation than opinionated armchair dumbasses like you will ever do. Most of us come from the working classes, you moron, and we struggle to feed, clothe and shelter our families like most other Americans, let alone provide them with increasingly unaffordable perks like decent health care and good educations.

If you'd ever attended any protest marches disrupted by over-reactionary police, then you would know that the cops control whom they attack--not the protesters. You don't even display basic common sense. Protesters go out to protest, not to be attacked. But they have to be willing to stand up for what they believe in and they put their minds and bodies on the line--which is more than a confused snot-nose like you has EVER done for anyone, isn't it, twelvepax? If jumblenuts like you find protesters being pepper sprayed, tasered, beaten, kicked, shot with rubber bullets and hit with concussion grenades so goddamned distasteful, then roll over and go back to sleep and take all the similarly wimpish "respectable average Americans" who share your infantile squeamishness and ignorance of the most basic historical American realities with you.

Conjuring fairytale movements loaded with polar opposites and reverse chains-of-command "scrutinizing" each other with subordinates castigating employer/superiors--when power and money flow in the opposite direction and such internal institutional rebellions would end their livelihoods--is pointless gibberish and a waste of time in a country that is already rapidly spiraling downhill. Your "perspective" sounds like Planet of the Apes on mainlined liquid LSD and methamphetamine. We're not the ones who need to get real. You are.

I suggest you inform yourself before posting the sort of cacophonous garbage you keep "reiterating" before your betters on CD.

twelvepax
How many attending the RNC are out-of-towners? Most, you think? We know where they get their income: from the corporate fascist state that is systematically suppressing dissent.

As to the agents provocateurs, how many would you estimate are clandestine operatives for the security machine? A good bet would be the majority of them, but we can't know that for sure until they are apprehended, interrogated, and investigated. That won't happen, so we'll never know for fact certain. But you've got to e terminally naive to suppose these trouble makers are all free lance anarchists.

You are bearing witness to the calculated suppression of Constitutionally guaranteed rights, but rather than admit the awful truth, you rationalize and justify.

Why? Because you're frightened. Until you get caught up in the net of political repression you're going to keep on justifying it. But when your time comes and you finally admit what's going on, it will be too late. There will be no one left to speak out in your name.

www.renovationpress.com. WYSIWYG

So you’re finally realizing that the country has turned fascist?

You should have known better than to allow this to happen.

All of recorded history demonstrates that whenever ultimate authority is given to a single person, or to a small group with a common ideology, fascism (suppression of opposition through terror) results. Behind all the rhetoric, the two party system in America is really a small group with a common ideology.

So, why did you vote for it?

We are all brought up to regard the existence of God and the two party system that we call democracy as the baseline on which moral conduct and liberty is based. I struggle every day with these same issues myself. But nothing could be further from the truth, and it takes intellectual bravery to admit it in your heart. Sorry, God is just a human invention. He doesn’t exist. Sorry, a two party system that elects a single president as commander-in-chief is not a democracy. It is a dictatorship in disguise, and changing the face of the dictator does not make it less a dictatorship. And of course, all dictatorships eventually become evil. Ironically the American government calls Chaves of Venezuela a dictator when in fact he was elected, while the current American president unfairly took power by cheating, yet we do not call him a dictator. Very strange. Chaves promotes policies that improve the quality of life of all citizens of Venezuela. Bush promotes policies that improve the wealth of only a few while ignoring the quality of life of most citizens of America. Again, very strange.

Of course as individuals we all have little ability to affect the general trend in this country towards fascism. But wait! There is one thing you can do. You can stop voting for Democrats or Republicans. Just stop it. Don’t worry. It isn’t dangerous. I did it in the last five elections and I haven’t been punished for it. And, the outcome of those elections was not really affected by my vote. So don’t think you are risking any damage to your country or to the world. Indeed, contrary to the beliefs that you were brought up with, you will probably do yourself and everyone else in the country more good than harm if you simply refuse to ever again vote for any person who is a member of a political party. In a true democracy there are no political parties, only individuals working for the betterment of us all.

I understand that if you are an average American you do not have the strength of character to vote independently. But when it’s all over and you don’t like the result, just remember that you should have known better.

Most probably Obama will win. However, you should not vote for him for that reason. This upcoming election is not a test or contest for you to pick the winner. There is no penalty if you pick a loser. And there is certainly no reward if you happen to pick the winner. Indeed, although you may view an Obama presidency as a sign of hope, it actually will not affect the direction that this country is heading in the slightest way, and you would be fooling yourself to think otherwise. An Obama presidency is really just the illusion of a change of power. Nothing will change. The one billion dollar US embassy in Iraq will continue to be staffed by Americans until an event similar to the Iran hostage crises happens. The US will continue to push the boundaries of patience of the rest of the world beyond the breaking point. Our government will continue to ignore the real human needs of its own citizens and focus exclusively on maximizing the short-term financial gains of large corporations. Obama is nothing more than another bought-and-paid for politician.

But don’t be deterred by the knowledge that an independent vote will not affect the outcome of the election. The true benefit is what such a vote will do for you personally. It will satisfy your own conscience that you voted in a way that is right and good for this country and for the world. And, when one day soon you or one of your children is beat up or shot by some thug police officer or soldier while changing classes on campus (remember Kent State?) you will not have yourself to blame.

Many of those arrested WERE out of towners: http://ww3.startribune.com/dynamic/jailbookings/search.php/. I wonder how they make ends meet, what is their source of income.

I also wonder why these "anarchists" often happen to cause random damage to small businesses, in broad daylight instead of at night, and sometimes with a reporter who just happens to be nearby to catch that image that gets plastered on the corporate media outlets.

CD ought to be ashamed of itself for falling into the martyr-meme. At some point, above-board progressives, civil libertarians, etc. need to recognize what a provocateur is, to see the counter-productive nature in some tactics, and quit with the goddamned head-banging already. Getting pepper-sprayed and crying foul DOES NOT a peace movement make. It will NOT cause politicians to change their minds. And -- far more important -- it will NOT galvanize support from outside a small cultish movement of martyrs. And I don't use the word "cult" lightly. I've bumped into many kinds of people in my lifetime, and anyone who doesn't occasionally laugh or show some sort of joie de vivre on occasion gives me the willies. Unless the progressive/peace movement can reach out to Middle America, do things that pique their interest, earn their RESPECT, show some dignity, etc. it's a self-imploding thing.

The peaceful protesters in Minnesota had their doors knocked down and automatic weapons pointed in their faces.

Several were roughed up and hurt.

A warrant was provided several hours later, but it was for the house next door.

The crime thet were charged with was bogus: obstructing traffic.

It was political intimidation.

And a violation of what used to be the 4th amendment.

They were only planning a peaceful protest, nothing more.

You can thank the leader of the "opposition" party, Barack Obama.

Several months ago he voted for the new FISA bill which erased the 4th amendment.

The new FISA bill no longer requires police to prove probable cause to a judge and procure a warrant to listen to your phone, internet...and now apparently to enter your home with guns drawn.

All the Obama supporters must now ask themselves if this is the type of "Change" they believe in.

Whiffs of Nazism in the air for sure. And the stink is getting worse.

johngary66 I think it should be mentioned that the once excellent Star/Trib was purchased a year ago by a comglomerate with no experience in the newspaper business. About half of the staff was let go and the paper has steadily gone downhill. There has also been a very stealthy move to the right that they probably think readers haven't noticed. We have.

Where if the Messiah of Hope & Change when he has a chance to give people real hope and make some actual change? Good question, Jacob Freeze. Expert in Constitutional law, Professor B.H. Obama, for whom the Constitution is an academic subject. Can he be unaware that when one of the best journalists working today is brutalized, the Constitution becomes just another goddam piece of paper? Or does he shrug it off as a fleeting anomalous episode like the Alien & Sedition Act of 1798 and all succeeding spasms of American political paranoia?

Maybe it's different this time, maybe the militarization of American society is so pervasive that the proverbial pendulum is stuck in place. You take the Department of Homeland Security and black defense and intelligence budgets and combine this with state and local cops, then you add the John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007, which over rides the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, and what have you got?

You have Amy Goodman & colleagues getting their asses hauled off to jail for PC Riot. You've got a national secret police apparatus, one integrated military machine capable of ingenious strategizing and awesome implementation. You've got a fascist wet dream of total control and many local elected thugs drooling at the prospect of pulling the levers. The Mayor of St. Paul, for example, the local police chief, and even the local sheriff. It's called "fusion". And what the machine hates above all is journalists. The machine breaks down under UV exposure.

After they brutalize the journalists, they speak of their deep desire to accommodate the journalists if they will just behave. They speak of embedding the journalists.

The pendulum will not swing back. Professor B.H. Obama will do nothing. After all, he's going to be in the driver's seat soon.

But it's OK, he'll be nicer than John McCane. He's more progressive.

The machine is the message and it's not a Hollywood metaphor.

www.renovationpress.com. WYSIWYG

I don't think our mayor realized the extent to which the FBI, with the assistance of Ramsey County Sheriff Fletcher, would overwhelmingly take over our downtown (cops in cars with sirens screaming, cops in phalanxes of 10 or more on motorcycles, cops on horseback, cops in riot gear on foot, cops on bicycles).

I sincerely hope the mayor will realize that a small percentage of officers DID react with unwarranted violence to the small percentage of anarchists who committed property damage or stopped traffic or whatever. And DID arrest journalists and others who were obviously not criminals. And DID mistreat some of the people they arrested.

The FBI is seeking yet more authority over citizens. Mr. Mukasey has begun to discuss with Congress--but does not need their approval to implement--new rules "that would let agents open preliminary terrorism investigations after mining public records and intelligence to build a profile of traits that, taken together, were deemed suspicious." Constitutional? I think not.(Washington Post, 08/20/2008, AP article by Lara Jakes Jordan.)

the press has more power this week than they will have for another four years. and once again they squander it.

unfortunately, there are few "real" journalists left, inside the convention centre it is mostly the smiling fools with their bolt on hairdos.

the journalists and news organisations, could turn this around almost instantly.

if they were to put down their cameras, their microphones, and switch off their laptops INSIDE the convention centre, i think that the republicans would issue apologies and give new instructions to law officials.

but they won't, because they worry they might not get on the good bus next time around - or maybe will lose an invitation to a junket.

journalists in other countries risk their lives to bring the whole story to the public. in the usa the vast majority of "journalists" are a complete disgrace to the profession.

i know some will say it was only bloggers,or fringe media, but Amy Goodman was among those arrested and the press inside the convention just kept on going. they should be ashamed.

Cripes...you left wing people twist things...

I am here in the Twins Cities. Anarchist thugs were running amok smashing things. I blame the friggin anarchist goons. Most of the people were peaceful and this is how that's covered on CD?

And CD should stop posting MSM StarTribune articles if CD hates the Strib. It's a little strange to keep seeing MSM Strib articles showing up on CD.

CD should write ALL it's own damn articles instead of copying them. If you want to be reporters be friggin reporters then. Do-the-real-work. Don't just sit in a friggin computer room in California, Vermont or Ontario.

Don't forget. It's 9:00 pm, 1939. Do you know where your White Rose affinity group is?

Charlie Jackson
Texans for Peace
http://www.texansforpeace.org

QUOTE OF THE DAY:

FROM: Madhoosier September 3rd, 2008 4:30 pm
Why do I suspect that if you puked on a Diebold voting machine it would register a vote for McCain.
-----------------------------------------------------

Dear Madhoosier:

I wasa feelin bad until I read your comment. Thank you

UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION

AMENDMENT l

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for the redress of grievances.

Here's the upcoming event they won't touch--afraid of the publicity!
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=xC0HauJ5-eQ

For those who want to assist the arrested--
Call the jail at 651.266.9350 (#8) and demand that people are given proper medical attention, are given access to their medication, and are not separated from the larger group! Also, demand that arrestees' charges are dropped and that they are released immediately!

--St. Paul Mayor's office at 651.266.8510.

Ramsey County Sheriff:
http://www.co.ramsey.mn.us/sheriff

651-266-9333 (LEC)

Be Polite--this is a nice person answering the phone. Ask that charges be dropped. Question the way police behaved.

Has the Messiah of Hope and Change commented on the brutalization of protesters and the press outside the conventions of both major parties?

Doesn't it seem like the sort of thing that a Messiah of Hope and Change might notice?

"Look, reporters and protesters are being brutalized outside the conventions of both major parties! It is happening right under my Messianic nose!""

"What's up with that?"

"I am the Messiah of Hope and Change and I do not like the look of this!"

"Desist, you pigs! Unhand Amy Goodman! I am Barack Obama, Messiah of Hope and Change, and I cannot stand by in silence while protesters and the press are brutalized!"

But the Messiah of Hope and Change is far away, calculating his next manoeuvre, and if the St. Paul police had sliced Amy Goodman into little pieces and fed her to their police dogs, the Messiah of Hope and Change would have consulted with Axelrod, Plouffe, and a dozen focus groups before he responded with a wishywashy "protest" that still managed to affirm the duty of the St. Paul police to slice up Amy Goodman under circumstances that will be defined more fully after the Messiah of Hope and Change becomes President of the United States.

Jacob Freeze

americans, remember your heritage and the tyrants you have felled.

Once the Military Commissions the USA Patriot Act then
they get to shoot journalists and horses, don't they?

Thanks "New Patriot Act". for criminalizing dissent and the media.

I was kinda tired of being informed and maybe not agreeing anyways....so very thoughtful for the Feds to take that awful burden from my shoulders. I much prefer the John McCain treatment....being left in the dark and spoonfed pablum.

"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats

Sounds very much like Germany in the 30's and Chile in the 70's. They will make there case justified, when this is over and most of main stream society will only believe the "Big Three" Networks who did not even report this, and the Cable Propaganda of CNN and Fox. I have relatives in Norway, and can retire in 3 years. I think I will call my Cousin in Bergen and see if I can move in.

In the spirit of feeding your inner fascist, we present a new paradigm for US democracy in action:

Reporter as Criminal Conspirator

the article said: "In a bizarre editorial on Tuesday, the Minneapolis St. Paul Star Tribune hailed the police crackdown as "appropriate," blaming unrest on outsiders from beyond the Twin Cities."

correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't the people inside the arena overwhelmingly "outsiders from beyond the twin cities?" this is a federal police action which reflects poorly on ALL the officials involved.

some unrest would be a good response to mccain/palin and show.

for peace and sustainability

Maybe it's all hopeless. To get a boost, watch "The World After Humans", now showing on the History Channel.

Send an email to the fascists in the St Paul police department:

ContactRamseyCounty@co.ramsey.mn.us

And if they ever come to your town, the storm troopers with no name badges- arrest them.

Targeting independent media and WITNESSES - Physical and mental abuse - Law enforcement without name badges - Pre-emptive raids and arrests - Media censorship - Media propaganda. The people of Minnesota should be up in arms. BOYCOTT Minnesota, Minneapolis, St. Paul and especially the Star Tribune. Welcome to "THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY" They don't have to like you, they just have to fear you.

"Many of those arrested in St. Paul weren't carrying IDs or wouldn't give their names. Those who were identified came from Lexington, Ky.; Brooklyn, N.Y.; Portland, Ore., and dozens of other U.S. cities," they wrote. "These weren't the sons and daughters of Highland Park and south Minneapolis."
_________________________________________________

Whoever wrote this editorial is ready for the big time: The Wall Street Journal, premier crackpot-editorial rag in the US.

Apart from the dopey lack of consideration for the concept of "free speech", and the pearl-clutching horror of Amerikan citizens Not Carrying ID-- show us your papers, dammit!-- they add the preposterous complaint that these weren't even homies.

This is the old familiar shibboleth of the Outside Agitator(s) invading Our Fair City to spread lawlessness and insurrection. Very original!

But furthermore, Dear Editor(s)-- aren't you in the front line of the crowd of civic boosters that pleads and grovels and begs the political parties to allow your Fair City the honor and privilege of HOSTING these conventions? And, well, dontcha kinda KNOW that you're lowering the drawbridge and inviting visitors from the four corners of the globe to come on down and fill up all those hotel rooms, eat in all those restaurants and food courts, and shop at all those malls 'n such during the Big Bash?

And those that can't afford the high life WERE welcomed by your "sons and daughters"-- whose guests were treated to Imperial Stormtrooper goon squads busting down the doors with weapons drawn during those charming pre-emptive raids.

Oh, THAT... well, still, that doesn't mean that you're expected to welcome bums and ne'er-do-wells and outside agitators without ID, huh? Still, dontcha think it's jest a TAD hypocritical to complain about "out-of-towners" showing up?

Your hospitality leaves something to be desired, alas!

Pitiful!

Police spokesman Don Walsh intervened only to say that "arrest have been made" and that all those arrested were involved in criminal activities and not "simply non-participants."
___________________________________________________________

Who are ya gonna believe-- a "police spokesman", or your lyin' eyes?

This article might ought to mention that St. Paul Mayor Coleman is a Democrat, shouldn't it? Just like at the Democratic Party Convention, this overwhelmingly excessive use of police force is something supported by the Democratic Party, as well as the Republican Party. They are in it together.

Still that will probably not stop all the Lesser of Two Evil liberals from then going out in November and voting for the Democrats? This is an addiction they have that is apparently stronger than an addiction to tobacco or crack. Sad to see so many liberals racked by this vice.