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Today's Top News
Research Links Rise in Falluja Birth Defects and Cancers to US Assault
• Defects in newborns 11 times higher than normal • 'War contaminants' from 2004 attack could be cause
A study examining the causes of a dramatic spike in birth defects in the Iraqi city of Falluja has for the first time concluded that genetic damage could have been caused by weaponry used in US assaults that took place six years ago.
The research, which will be published next week, confirms earlier estimates revealed by the Guardian of a major, unexplained rise in cancers and chronic neural-tube, cardiac and skeletal defects in newborns. The authors found that malformations are close to 11 times higher than normal rates, and rose to unprecedented levels in the first half of this year – a period that had not been surveyed in earlier reports.
The findings, which will be published in the International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health, come prior to a much-anticipated World Health Organisation study of Falluja's genetic health. They follow two alarming earlier studies, one of which found a distortion in the sex ratio of newborns since the invasion of Iraq in 2003 – a 15% drop in births of boys.
"We suspect that the population is chronically exposed to an environmental agent," said one of the report's authors, environmental toxicologist Mozhgan Savabieasfahani. "We don't know what that environmental factor is, but we are doing more tests to find out."
The report identifies metals as potential contaminating agents afflicting the city – especially among pregnant mothers. "Metals are involved in regulating genome stability," it says. "As environmental effectors, metals are potentially good candidates to cause birth defects.
The findings are likely to prompt further speculation that the defects were caused by depleted uranium rounds, which were heavily used in two large battles in the city in April and November 2004. The rounds, which contain ionising radiation, are a core component of the armouries of numerous militaries and militias.
Their effects have long been called into question, with some scientists claiming they leave behind a toxic residue, caused when the round – either from an assault rifle or artillery piece – bursts through its target. However, no evidence has yet been established that proves this, and some researchers instead claim that depleted uranium has been demonstrably proven not to be a contaminant.
The report acknowledges that other battlefield residues may also be responsible for the defects. "Many known war contaminants have the potential to interfere with normal embryonic and foetal development," the report says. "The devastating effect of dioxins on the reproductive health of the Vietnamese people is well-known."
The latest Falluja study surveyed 55 families with seriously deformed newborns between May and August. It was conducted by Dr Samira Abdul Ghani, a paediatrician at Falluja general hospital. In May, 15% of the 547 babies born had serious birth defects. In the same period, 11% of babies were born at less than 30 weeks and 14% of foetuses spontaneously aborted.
The researchers believe that the figures understate what they describe as an epidemic of abnormalities, because a large number of babies in Falluja are born at home with parents reluctant to seek help from authorities.
One case documented in the report is of a mother and her daughter who after the 2004 battles both gave birth to babies with severe malformations. The second wife of one of the fathers also had a severely deformed baby in 2009.
"It is important to understand that under normal conditions, the chances of such occurrences is virtually zero," said Savabieasfahani.
Iraq's government has built a new hospital in Fallujah, but the city's obstetricians have complained that they are still overwhelmed by the sheer number of serious defects. The US military has long denied that it is responsible for any contaminant left behind in the city, or elsewhere in Iraq, as it continues its steady departure from the country it has occupied for almost eight years.
It has said that Iraqis who want to file a complaint are welcome to do so. Several families interviewed by the Guardian in November 2009 said they had filed complaints but had not received replies.
The World Health Organisation is due to begin its research sometime next year. However, there are fears that an extensive survey may not be possible in the still volatile city that still experiences assassinations and bombings most weeks.
"An epidemic of birth defects is unfolding in Fallujah, Iraq," said Savabieasfahani. "This is a serious public health crisis that needs global attention. We need independent and unbiased research into the possible causes of this epidemic.
We invite scientists and organisations to get in touch with us so that we may gain the strength to address this large global public health issue."
City's spike in deformity rates
Birth-defect rates in Falluja have become increasingly alarming over the past two years. In the first half of 2010, the number of monthly cases of serious abnormalities rose to unprecedented levels. In Falluja general hospital, 15% of the 547 babies born in May had a chronic deformity, such as a neural tune defect – which affects the brain and lower limbs – cardiac, or skeletal abnormalities, or cancers.
No other city in Iraq has anywhere near the same levels of reported abnormalities. Falluja sees at least 11 times as many major defects in newborns than world averages, the research has shown.
The latest report, which will be published next week in the International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health, says Falluja has been infected by a chronic environmental contaminant. It focuses on depleted uranium, used in weaponry during two US assaults in 2004 as a possible cause of the contaminant. Scientific studies have so far established no link between the rounds, which contain ionising radiation to burst through armour and are commonly used on the battlefield.
The study focuses on metals as a potential conduit for the contaminant. It suggests a bodily accumulation of toxins is causing serious and potentially irreversible damage to the city's population base, and calls for an urgent examination of metals in Falluja as well as a comprehensive examination of the city's recent reproductive history.
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140 Comments so far
Show AllNo surprise here. USAns have been well-informed of the criminal uses of depleted uranium ordnance since the 1990s.
The renown international physician, Dr. Helen Caldicott provided pictures of deformed Iraqi babies from exposure to depleted uranium weapons used in Basra in 1991. She noted seven-fold increases in childhood cancer and gross birth deformities in babies from 1991 and after.
Google Helen Caldicott and Basra.
So this news story is just the latest revelation of the constant damage from these diabolical weapons.
Happy New Year to everyone here.
Bill in Dubuque
As horrific as it is, it comes as no surprise. The United States did not learn a single lesson from Viet Nam, when untold numbers of Vietnamese, as well as many of our own soldiers, were left with various cancers, birth defects, and other serious injuries due to exposure to Agent Orange, which was used as a defoliant during our Viet Nam conflict. It's deja vu all over again, only it's in Iraq, it's even worse than Viet Nam, and, for the past half century, the American Electorate at large continues to elect leaders who lead our country into useless, illegal and wrongheaded wars, especially in third-world countries, destroying them, and sickening, killing and permanently maiming their people.
Sure they learned from Vietnam. Today they use, as the article states, more than one potential contaminate so that they can argue that it's really not their fault. Not sure why they bother, it's not like the foreigners will be allowed to sue for damages anyhow.
Really wish I believed in karma and the afterlife mumbo-jumbo. There isn't enough time in the longest human life to sufficiently punish those who are responsible for this atrocity.
KARL: To not believe in karma and/or the after-life must make you angry and bitter. With all the senseless suffering being promoted for obscene profits for a few, and justice seemingly blind, deaf, and dumb to it all... it is largely the belief in the LONG ARM of karmic justice that keeps many sane. After all, these ARE insane times. And by the way, the Laws of the Universe operate regardless of your awareness or consent. I mean it's not like you get to say whether or not water is allowed to freeze at 32 degrees; or that December 21 will be the longest night of the year, etc. What's "mumbo jumbo" to you is respected spiritual Truth to millions.
Why would you think I'm angry or bitter because I don't believe in your version of the magical sky fairy? That's a rather amusing thing for you to argue. The things I get angry about I attempt to do something to mitigate the anger; I don't pray to the sky daddy to spank the bad men who did me wrong. Bitter? Is that like holding a grudge? You know that holding a grudge is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die, don't you?
I know that eventually there will be an accounting for the 'bad' behavior of nations, but that has nothing to do with karma. It has to do with the fact that people who get fucked over have long memories and will take revenge when they get the chance.
The laws of the universe are not concerned with mysticism. They're physical laws, that govern the way things interact with each other.
But Jupiter's orbit will not have any effect on your life. Unless of course you make your money by selling fiction. There's only room for a few gifted people like JK Rowling though...
Why do you seek to turn the conversation from the article, to your own topic? I don't see any mention of 'god' or 'karma' or other forms of mysticism in the article. So why bother to harp at me because I stated a fact that the lifetime of the guilty is not long enough to punish them for their crimes?
[ I am reflecting the belief system of MILLIONS ] I will say that just because 'millions' of people believed that the earth was flat, doesn't make that belief in any way 'correct'. You're free to believe what you want, but don't expect me not to laugh at you if you say things that are patently ridiculous.
Sorry that you've guessed wrong about my previous identity. In fact my 'alt' was someone that you seemed to like, I suppose changing my name was not to your liking.
I see a flame fest arising if we continue to snipe at one another, if that flame fest had anything to do with the article I'd be interested in it. If you would care to have a flame fest with me over the merits of mythology versus reality, please write and submit the article to Abby so that she may publish you and give us an opportunity to debate that.
[So why bother to harp at me because I stated a fact that the lifetime of the guilty is not long enough to punish them for their crimes?]
I did, yet it's not really a statement that matters. I pointed out only that I didn't believe in karma or any other sort of mystical muck that would actually see someone who ordered the atrocity paying for giving the order. That didn't happen in Falluja during the first gulf war (the one between Iraq and Iran, not the opportunistic massacre after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait). I did go more into detail of why I don't buy the rubbish of karma below.
I said, and you can see in my response, that the article doesn't mention karma at all and that I wasn't interested in having a discussion on that topic. My original point (mentioned as an off hand remark) was an expression of regret that the idea of karma wouldn't actually punish those who have done evil in this world.
Now, what does the 'you did this and they did that' have to do with the article? neither you, nor I, nor Sioux fired the DU into Falluja, nor did we supply the chemical weapons that were marshaled in Falluja before being deployed against the Iranians in the Iran-Iraq war.
"marshaled in Falluja"
gathered in the Halls of Mars....
Maybe Nietsche was right about people who need to believe in eternal hell (or Karma) for their enemies.
& what is the difference when a Robertson or Falwell point to natural disaster as gods' revenge for homosexuality or 'original sin' for being born etc. It's very difficult to wrap one's mind around the notion of a deformed infant is somehow related to 'karma'----strikes me like another facet of 'spiritual superstition'---don't do bad because there is payback, if not in this lifetime then in the afterlife or hell----which begs the question, if it is determined, to you & those who hold w/a karmic sensibility, that there is no karmic aspect, would you or these folk then change their behavior to one of rape plunder & pillage, I think not!
I love to imagine that Falwell and hopefully soon Robertson, Beck and all those lovely Christians wake up in Hell after spouting hate for so many years in Christ's name. Yep. Lovely image. I am on the fence with a god, but do believe in Karma. I must have been a mean SOB in my previous life. All I have known this time around is pain.
Sioux Rose I like your comments.
JOE: We were (most of us) raised on Hollywood models of happy families, meeting an attractive someone and walking off into the sunset with them... to live happily ever after. My best friend reminds me (constantly), that "most of life is pain and growth." I think she's right.
John Bradshaw, author of "Homecoming," estimated that 90% of American familes are dysfunctional. The violence--in the form of war, religious calls for holy war, a meat-based diet, the incarceration rate, the emphasis on building weapons as basis for an industrial economy--permeates all of our lives in one form or another.
I've had a tough time, too, and while I try to maintain an attitude of gratitude for those assets I do have (including strength, discipline, imagination, and an incredible thirst for knowledge)... on hard days I tell myself I was probably a warrior in another time, and wiped out a village. This would help explain why I was born to a "broken" home, and have had major lessons with family since. (My astrology chart reflects these factors, too.)
To the few who are born into families where there is no authoritarian control apparatus running (frequently in the form of military or fundamentalist conditioning), and the parents genuinely love each other, and offer emotional support in ready supply... probably such comforts preclude any need to ask the bigger, broader questions about life. Therefore, less growth might manifest. Yet for all of us who have dealt with harsh conditions, these operate like the grains that penetrate the oysters' interior... how else to form pearls? (Someone accused me of plagiarism once for citing this reference, but it's a lesson that belongs to NATURE, and is worth passing on.)
Gee, I was born into a conservative (authoritarian, military) home where my parents came from opposite ideologies, but still loved and respected each other in a way that is totally alien to most Americans. And both my parents were 'intellectuals' - came from that background, were excellent teachers, and highly respected in whatever community we found ourselves (we moved a lot). There was no shortage of highly charged debate - discussions over any and all subjects - and we were all taught to think critically, using sound logic and 'common sense' - the 'karma' discussion was always taken with a grain of salt. (We kids decided my dad had been a snake in a former life.) You can love mythology without believing it's true - it's just a reflection of the dogma of the dominant society (like any religion). My father always said it was a fatal mistake to take allegory for fact - you missed the entire lesson, that way. (I guess I'm doomed to be a warrior in every life.)
I usually love your comments, but tying into that guy was unfair. He was obviously just ruminating some... like we are all prone to do, from time to time, and should be allowed to do on this site since it offers something for the rest of us to consider. I found his off-topic comments much more satisfying than the bickering after you set him off. And found no reason for him/her to admit to any 'mistake' - my how demanding we get when we don't get our way! Ha! (Somebody else made the comment about refusing to admit a mistake.)
To your health in the New Year! Good luck and best wishes SR!
There may be reasons to disagree with that comment but flagging it? Come on people. I don't see anything wrong with this comment technically speaking other than one use of the f-word but who doesn't use it in their comments?
Hi Sioux Rose.
If I knew for certain that the laws of karma were true, it would give me great satisfaction that justice will happen in the end. Yes it leaves me bitter and angry to think that Tony Blair, John Howard and Dick Cheney appear to be left unpunished. Human beings want and require justice, and we cant have it in this life (that much is obvious). I think thats why we invented hell. I do not know if the laws of karma are true. I wish them to be true. But neocons such as Dick Cheney have amassed thousands of lifetimes of bad karma. How can it be possible for them to get it? We dont even know if mankind will live on for another thousand generations.
On another related topic, Tony Blair has apparently converted to Catholicism. He can therefore be cleansed of his sins if he truly remorseful for them. But he wont even admit them, of course. To do so would commit himself to be tried in the world court in the Hague. And he cannot be truly remorseful if he does not admit his sins. We do not know if his belief is genuine any more than GWB's beliefs. It is just too politically advantageous to publicly adopt religion, so that is probably the reason for it. But if we would imagine for a moment that Blair is going to get his promised rewards, it can be quite satisfying.
hey tony blair - you say you meant well,
so how come you fear you'll end up in hell?
a fine catholic man you claim to be,
but your name is damned for eternity.
BRAITHWA: I certainly understand, and empathize, with your sentiments. Although I never read the book, "Conversations with God," by Neal Alan Walsh, a very brilliant fellow I attended college with referenced it when WE had this same conversation over dinner in NYC a few years ago. He felt that book reconciled much for him; and he's the head of two NYC hospitals. (As only a Virgo could manage all those details!)
It is a paradox. How to believe in a system of justice that doesn't often show evidence of itself within a given time frame. Still, haven't you ever noticed "instant karma" operating in your own life? Maybe you fail to give the cashier back the extra dollar and sure enough a day or so later, you find that someone overcharges you a dollar or so. I've seen this.
With a case like Cheney, do you happen to remember the opening to the film "Superman"? When a soul enacts GREAT evil on a massive scale, it doesn't always get a chance to reincarnate to pay it off. In the Superman story, the evil beings were placed into a sort of condensed blackhole where they'd remain, essentially imprisoned, for all eternity. The concept of karma exists in most cultures, even if it goes by other names.
I agree that human beings NEED to believe in justice. Why would anyone follow any rule if they saw that others seemed to live lives of bliss and privilege for spitting on those very same rules?
Needless to say, I cannot answer for Source (the Infinite), or the souls of persons like Cheney, Bush, and now sadly, Obama.
I remember seeing the Kennedy kids on TV, maybe it was the Oprah show; and the question pivoted to them was why they all went into some sort of public service (given the family's wealth. Paris Hilton certainly doesn't give a shit about anyone but her own narcissistic ego-extension and the adventures it's having thanks to all the inherited money.) They answered with the St. Thomas Admonition, and it stuck with me: "To the one much is given, much is expected." And that adage I believe also applies to power.
While I'm certain that ANY of us acquiring a high position of power would be subject to inordinate temptations, and the dark machinations of those already holding such status... the question is whether the moral fortitude would emerge that would rise over that "Cuckoo's Nest" to genuinly mold policies that were at least somewhat favorable to the masses. Until mankind is itself perfected, we will not see perfect justice in our world. Yet...
What we see today is such an "in your face" kick of the boot, such overt theft, such casual consignment of large-scale MURDER to whole societies, such abject resource depletion added to catastrophically piss-poor management of necessary natural resources. Why, it's a farce of demonic proportions! Of course quite a few of the insiders really do believe in End Times, or they otherwise appear to be convinced there is neither a God, after-life, nor system of Karma which will hold them to account. Do you see how they might behave differently IF they understood the longterm implications for their incomprehensibly selfish acts today?
I hope I get a ring-side seat watching as these great offenders learn otherwise.
SILVER FOX: Thank you for the support. There are a few on these threads who find any mention of anything spiritual as toxic. Either they're the same "American Fascists" exposed in Chris Hedges' important book (by that title), or street level thugs.
Humans have evolved predisposed to seeking justice. Psychopaths lack any empathy. Predatory capitalism (inordinant wealth, greed, paranoia) is an incentive to psychopaths (sociopaths) so they naturally become the 'leaders' in such an economic model. Corporations are psycopathic by nature - thus you see our problem. Fascism is when military force is used to sustain this toxic situation - non-violence will not stop it. The Uber-Nazis could never be stopped - they had to be killed. Even they knew that - and wanted to take everyone else with them. Zionists are the same.
The concept of 'karma' is natural for justice-seeking humans to adopt - especially when under such dire circumstances where the worst parasites rule. (And for that I apologize to all useful parasites.) That doesn't make it real - just a convenient myth.
The thing that makes sky-cake taste soooooooo good is knowing that the people who never heard of sky-cake ain't gonna get any and never will!
More evidence of our brave military and "moral" leaders at work.
Notice that the U.S. military took over 30 years to take any responsibility (and it's tentative, at best) for the birth abnormalities that followed from local people's exposure to Agent Orange, another toxic agent used during the Vietnam War.
Nations are left littered in land mines. The stain of Hiroshima still hangs over lives, as now we witness depleted uranium as the satanic gift invoked to "keep on giving."
In other words, former war zones remain essentially at war with the detritus left behind. How many children must wear an artificial limb because they mistakenly took a land mine for a toy?
Anyone who thinks the U.S. is NOT experiencing karmic blowback--in the form of Katrina, a failing economy, wild weather, and a whirl of losses, literal and symbolic--based on all the unnecessary carnage wrought upon others is delusional. It may seem that the rich are immune from said karmic blowback; yet in reality, those given much will have the MOST to answer for... Bloomberg apparently heading that list.
[Anyone who thinks the U.S. is NOT experiencing karmic blowback--in the form of Katrina, a failing economy, wild weather, and a whirl of losses, literal and symbolic--based on all the unnecessary carnage wrought upon others is delusional.]
Funny, I thought karma afflicted those who were responsible for the negative actions. Or are you arguing that the collective punishment of the poor and vulnerable is justified?
If it was karma, wouldn't the rich be going bankrupt? Wouldn't the artillerymen, officers and Generals suffer by not having healthy offspring/grandchildren? Wouldn't the weather be demolishing the assets of the rich, rather than the remaining assets of the poor?
Karma is a nice theory (in the religious sense of the word), but like all religious beliefs there is no evidence to support it.
Karma is not direct and justice takes time which can vary. There is plenty to debate on who is responsible for what negative actions. It can be argued that while the rich and the elites running the military aren't punished, those who indirectly or directly supported them are get their share of karma for being their bread and butter support. I think I'm one of millions. The same millions of Americans who laughed at the French in 2003 are paying dearly for this. The elites may not be getting punished but they're worrying more about trying to keep this crumbling empire alive longer enough. That kind of stress could be looked at as karma although I think that they deserve more punishment than that. I'm not good at explaining how karma works but I think I'm getting better at understanding it. As for proving that karma exists, it's no different from proving that energy exists. You can't see it but you can see its effects even if the time it takes to see its effects varies.
"KARL," this conversation feels like Deja Vu. I am certain you put the same challenge to me using yet another screen name.
There is individual karma, group karma, AND national karma.
I believe we all are held to account at the level of our complicity. That means the leaders who actually engender these policies of destruction are FIRST in line. Voters who vote for policies that harm others, are also in line. The rest of us, in spite of efforts we may have made to alter the course, still are part of the greater unfolding process. Hopefully we get a softern landing as a result!
I notice you are trying, as my detractors consistently do, to conflate my post with an insensitive attitude. The Truth is painful, and our nation is paying dues. Loss of its industrial base, theft by bankers, leaders who are criminals in everything but title, wastes of incomprehensible proportion ON war. I don't contribute to these things directly, but I feel the over-all quality of life coming down around me.
Karma is not a "nice" theory. It's part of the Judeo-Christian ethic in the form of "Do unto others, as it will shall done unto you." It's seen throughout the Old Testament as the idea of punishment following transgressions against Law. Many take it as "What goes around, comes around."
The Buddhists have a very elaborate system for judging karma. If I am talking on my cell phone (I don't use one, by the way), and accidentally hit a pedestrian, that would not hold the same karmic weight as aiming at the person intentionally. I was briefly taught the levels and took some notes, but I do not have the material in front of me. The point is, it's not one brush-stroke, all held equal to account. And the difficult part (for those who expect all Truth to show up right before their eyes, and suit itself to the span of their temporal existence) is that much set into motion now takes LIFETIMES to balance.
Here's something funny for you. A few months ago I went bike riding with a friend of mine, and I noticed this bug (some kind of beetle) pushing something much larger than itself across the road. My friend told me the technical name for the creature (maybe dung-beetle?) that was pushing a wad of doo-doo across the road. Its existence came down to tracking doo-doo and then laboring to push it, or carry it home.
Although I don't subscribe to trans-species migration, the idea that a soul like Bush the Lesser could return as an insect... IF that belief system turned out to be accurate (where every sentient being returns to an undifferentiated Life Stream and therefore its energy can coalesce in ANY animal, insect, or human form... for its next 'go round) then I thought what perfect poetic justice it would be if the likes of Bush, Cheney, Condi, et al returned as those beetles, forced to push shit around for their entire existence!
Personally, I DO believe in karma as well as poetic justice. Those who understand the law of karma are more disciplined in their actions. Instead of relying on corrupt law enforcement agencies to right wrongs, they try to avoid them altogether by behaving as impeccably as possible. Unfortunately, we all have our human imperfecitons... and that is the chief reason for reincarnation: that we have many opportunities to work out the kinks. All living beings evolve to better reflect the highest qualities of their Source.
"Karma is not a 'nice' theory. It's part of the Judeo-Christian ethic in the form of 'Do unto others, as it will shall done unto you.'"
the closest the J-C's get is "as you sow, so shall you reap."
you've confused this with the so-called Golden Rule*, i.e. "do unto others as you would have others do unto you."
but you knew that.
Here's hoping we will all have a good new year, even those who don't seem to deserve such.
*this rule has its drawbacks: my sister loves "practical" jokes, her husband doesn't.
Siouxrose: a tangential reply to some previous comment of yours :)
... The Dung beetle was once worshipped: see this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1RHmSm36aE
Maxpayne: Unlike karma, things like energy, gravity, oxygen... these can be directly measured, and therefore their existence proved. (btw, i could be wrong, but i think we actually *can* see energy, and oxygen atoms for that *matter* :)
I respect, and am never dismissive of, spiritual and non-spiritual people alike. With that preface I'd like to address the idea Siouxrose brought up in the last paragraph: "Those who understand the law of karma are more disciplined in their actions. Instead of relying on corrupt law enforcement agencies to right wrongs, they try to avoid them altogether by behaving as impeccably as possible."
If, for example, many religions' belief in hell, or in karma, helps individuals to lead a more disciplined and judicious life, then I believe that is a good thing. In my opinion, though, making decisions to avoid bad karma, or hell, etc., is a form of morality that is at an earlier stage of moral-reasoning development than making decisions based, simply, on what is just and good. I'm thinking of Kohlberg's Theory of moral reasoning.
With well-deserved respect and admiration for you all,
bej
We can see the molecules that make up oxygen but energy and gravity are different. I never said that they can't be measured. I don't dispute the fact that one can measure and see their effects but it's just easier with gravity and energy whereas with karma, it's difficult to see when and where its effects will be noticed. The longer it takes, the harder it is for people to believe in justice or karma. I'm no guru at this but thanks for sharing and best to you as well.
I gave this response elsewhere but it works here.
Assume that 99.9 percent of the worlds population suffered the genetic defect called
deuteranopia.
This is a form of Colour Blindess wherein in place of the 6 colours a normal person sees when looking at a rainbow, the person with this defect sees only two. Yellow of differeing shades and blue.
Now one of these .1 percent of people NOT suffering this defect can see all those colours and can not understand why no one else can see those other colours.
Do those other colours exist?
Would it be correct for those 99.9 percent of people to claim NO such colors can exist no matter what those .1 percent "perceive"?
How would that .1 percent of people DESCRIBE the "colors" they perceive and go about proving it and why should they have to prove it?
If we have instruments of science that can in fact measure wavelegths and thus prove to those 99.9 percent of people unable to perceive those other colors, that those colors do indeed exist, then is it ONLY true because those instruments indicated it was or was it always true?
Modern Science is not even in agreement of the sum total of our "senses". Some claim there as little as 9 senses while others claim there as many as 29. Is it inconceivable that some people are more aware of the Spiritual and there no science that can yet measure it?
I will give you this from personal experience. I have EXPERIENCED the spiritual or a phenomona that can not be explained by modern science as have members of my family. I can not offer PROOF. I do not HAVE to offer proof. My experience can not be denied by what the Scientists say anymore then a person seeing 6 distinct colors where others see only would not say that it can not be the case because the Science of the time indicates there only two visible colors.
GW NORTH: Wonderful analogy! It's like trying to explain to someone who's never rode a bike what THAT feels like. Or how about orgasm? Until you feel it, what can be said? When Jimmy Hendrix asked, "Have you ever been experienced?" He may have been alluding to some drug high, but the point was, he went outside of the ordinary senses that define and contain most peoples' experience or CONCEPT of reality.
For college metaphysics (the ONLY class in my life I ever got a "C" in, because the professor couldn't stand me... as there were only a handful in that course, and I invited them to MY house for REAL discussions. Plus this guy was none too thrilled getting stuck teaching a course that was not resonant with him; and he truly looked like something dreamt up from a mad scientist satire,. Like a robot, he only wanted to cover what was in the main text. I can't recall the title, it may have been "Metaphysics," however, it was written by J. Alfred Whitehead.)
For my termpaper I described "reality" from some radically different contexts to suggest that the very concept was itself subjective. I chose the experience of the Black man in America, the Native American, Carlos Casteneda's "out of body" expeditions guided by Don Juan, and probably 3 others. (I can't recall them at the moment as the paper, which ran 49 pages was done many moons ago!)
In Peru, recently spending time with Shamans and hearing Dr. Alberto Villoldo's talks every night, one realizes that reality TRULY is based on enculturated beliefs and experiences. The child who's born in the U.S. and sees "ghosts" or hears "spirits" is told s/he is imagining this; and in some households, those psychic responses are so feared they're probably now being medicated away. Western culture has NO USE for anything that is not material in nature, or likely to obtain its value (and evaluation) by applying the yardstick of fiscal worth. As if THAT alone constitutes a basis for mass sentience, or what's taken for consensual reality!
Note that Indigenous leaders like Bolivia's Morales are demanding that the U.N. consider the rights of Indigenous people, along with those of MOTHER NATURE! That concept is completely alien to Western culture, yet the living earth, and in too many places, her dying status, will increasingly HAVE to factor into the equations we live by; lest we not live/survive at all!
Your theory falls flat when all the people in that .1% report the same results - that they ALL see the same colours, therefore raising a question as to their existence. This is NOT the reality of 'spirituality' which is usually an expression of endorphins under special circumstances (and a kind of self-brainwashing or wishful thinking that permeates those who seek solace from miserable lives or traumatic events) and report different experiences. It's far too easy to use 'scientific theory' in an unscientific way.
Well, I'll give you one more kick as to why I think your notion that Karma will be getting back at the perpetrators of Ebil is a bit repulsive. The argument, taken to its logical conclusion, is that if something bad happens to you then you're the one who's really responsible. You might not remember why you're being punished, but the universe is just and wouldn't do you ill if you hadn't really really deserved it.
If you're a rapist, you generate bad karma; if you're raped you're being punished for some bad thing you've done. I would hope you'd disagree with that notion.
From the article, if you think 'karma' is at work here, then obviously the infants who are suffering are doing so because they were really really bad in a previous life. The parents of those infants must have been bad too, to have defective children. If you believe that 'karma' is at work then it's working for everyone, eh? Who knows, maybe the parents of these babies are suffering because they used chemical warfare against the Iranians during the 1980s.
How dare you object to the workings of this all powerful magical 'karma' that is getting the vengeance that those who are suffering deserve.
This is a good point.
"From the article, if you think 'karma' is at work here, then obviously the infants who are suffering are doing so because they were really really bad in a previous life. The parents of those infants must have been bad too, to have defective children."
There was an actress/comedian who is from Saturday night live. I think she did the skit "Pat". At any rate she had a lecture which she discussed why she lost her religious beliefs. She discussed visiting an eastern country at one point when she was interested in Zen Buddhism, which seems to be a much less of a mind controlling religion than the western ones of Abraham. She mentioned how she felt sad about a baby that was deformed and the mother of the infant asked. "Why are you sad?, he must have committed a serious crime in its previous life and deserved this". She decided that Zen Buddhism was not the type of spirituallity she wanted to continue seeking.
If believing Karma helps a person from slitting their wrists than I hope they hang on to it. If believing in Karma helps them survive in society without hurting others that is o.k. too. But if the idea of Karma is just another mind prison religion trick that allows people in power to take advantage of others than it should be pointed out to be just that.
So, the question is, does society use Karma as an opiate to stay calm while they are being taken advantage of?
I believe in reality based Karma. For example, if a person goes around and bullies everyone, eventually people will find a way to stand up to them or the bully will pick the wrong person who will be an even bigger bully. Hopefully a person who relies on bully behavior will get what is coming to them.
But sometimes the bully seems to always get away with it.If people allow it because they think that some mystical power in the universe will intervene and because of this they allow the bully behavior to go unchecked, wouldn't it be a form of enabling? If a bully relies on a mystical belief of their victim in order to take advantage of them than wouldn't that belief be just a tool used for sustaining abuse?
That's not 'karmic' blowback - that's the results of specific policies endorsed by people who do not give a damn about the 99% of humanity they crush so ruthlessly. The ones who cause such devastation do not suffer from it - but they do have their own (mental) problems. Imagine the gnawing hunger, the constant paranoia - and know that they will NEVER be satiated - can never be satiated because their 'need' is all in their heads - they're seriously deranged. Now that's real karma.
These sociopaths are not affected by this imagined projection of Karma, they like the gnawing hunger. They are seriously deranged, but being sociopaths/psychopaths they are not bothered by it. The suffering they cause others can in no way be balanced out by them having to live with their inner emptiness. Karma either allows a person to feel sorry for them or to excuse them. Maybe it is a good tool for the faithful to use to live with this abuse but for people that aren’t buying the snake oil they can see this religious mind trap for what it is. It allows people to get away with abuse while the victims remain content on a make believe supposition that the abuser is getting, or will get, what is coming to them. This way they can sit back and suffer without the guilt of not standing up for themselves and the victims around them.
Karma parallels another religious mind trap called redemptive suffering which is pushed by the Catholic Church.
I am not condemning all religious people per say, just the way some of their beliefs are used.
There are some people that are religious who can get through this type of thinking or somehow use it for their advantage. An example are some of the religious persons that protest WISC/SOA. Also, from what I have heard, Buddhists are very secular and peacful minded.
People have the right to their religious beliefs but people who do not subscribe have a a right to disagree with them.
the Depleted Uranium is causing defects in over half a million US vets also the cover-up continues.
This article does not address what depleted uranium does when you breath in or take in the residue... the tiny particles that can go anywhere in your body.
Thanks, Jim Glover. You're spot on about this! Way to go!
I went to an information distribution event in our community which was designed to help the poor. It was for an assignment in college. The Veterans department was there and had lots of helpful information they handed out. But one of the pamphlets they had on their table was concerning depleted uranium. It was a complete whitewash which explained that there was no evidence that DU was harmful in the amount used in munitions and that no veterans have ever been harmed by it.
can you say genocide?
In all fairness to the Imperial Amerikan Armed Forces, they simply HAD to abandon their traditional military occupation legacy rewards of nylon stockings, cigarettes, and Hershey bars.
The cost simply became prohibitive, especially considering the health risks associated with the latter two items.
Whereas the long-term toxic side-effects of lethal weaponry only cost a DIME*, and last SO much longer! That's why the IDF were pleased to use them during the Siege of Gaza.
They're the gifts that never stop giving.
* Dense Inert Metal Explosive
most curious to your source for DU use on Gaza---white phosphorous is one thing DU another!
thanks
DIME is not the same as DU. DIME is suspected as the source of terrible wounds seen in Gaza where arms and legs seemed to have been cut off with a saw, rather than torn off by shrapnel. Wikipedia entry here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dense_Inert_Metal_Explosive
Yes, secretarybird, thanks-- I was indeed referring to a series of reports regarding the IDF's use of DIME weapons in Gaza.
Sorry to blur the issue a bit to make a clever reference, gershon.
See: http://bit.ly/hiPaGH
Gee, what a surprise!
And to think that the birth defects also increased in Gaza following Operation Cast Lead.
What a coincidence, huh?
That military operations by the US and its most able partner would have the same "unintended" consequences.
The ensured decimation of conquered populations through the use of toxic munitions.
I mean, it looks like it might even be - gasp - intentional.
Record of the United States' chemical and nuclear treatment of at least hundreds of thousands of people in foreign lands:
Hiroshima and Nagasaki: cancer and birth defects caused by radioactivity
Vietnam: cancer and birth defects caused by Agent Orange, to this very day
Iraq: ongoing cancer and birth defects caused by depleted uranium
But, hey, that should not deter the State Dept from sermonizing other people and governments on how to behave in accordance with proper rules of conduct, laws, etc and on proclaiming its adherence to human rights, the rule of law, and Christian values.
as the Red Man said: "I survived the Trail of Tears and all I got was this poxy blanket."
Don't forget Bosnia, Serbia, Kosovo, etc - DU used there, with same results.
The American bastards went into Iraq because Saddam used chemical weapons. Now we see that the Americans are no better. When will you Yankees finally do something about your abhorrent government? It's up to you American citizens to stop this madness. You fund this war machine and vote in the warmongers.
"The American bastards went into Iraq because Saddam used chemical weapons."
So why did the the USA supply chemical weapons to Saddam Hussein? And why do we still provide the raw materials for chemical weapons to Israel? Why do we stock biological weapons, given that we abhor them so?
You and I essentially agree with each other. But we all know the the alleged, no longer existing, WMD were not the real reasons for the invasion and occupation.
"It's up to you American citizens to stop this madness."
I wish we could, but it is just not possible. The version of reality, and the range of election issues that most subscribe to comes from the TV. Opinions offered by relatives, friends and people on the street simply do not possess the same "authority" as opinions delivered in a dozen different ways through our media.
What country doesnt'?
Depleted Uranium Munitions=DUM.