Cheney Lawyer Claims Congress Has No Authority Over Vice-President
The lawyer for US vice-president Dick Cheney claimed today that the Congress lacks any authority to examine his behaviour on the job.
The exception claimed by Cheney’s counsel came in response to requests from congressional Democrats that David Addington, the vice-president’s chief of staff, testify about his involvement in the approval of interrogation tactics used at Guantanamo Bay.
Ruling out voluntary cooperation by Addington, Cheney lawyer Kathryn Wheelbarger said Cheney’s conduct is “not within the [congressional] committee’s power of inquiry”.
“Congress lacks the constitutional power to regulate by law what a vice-president communicates in the performance of the vice president’s official duties, or what a vice president recommends that a president communicate,” Wheelbarger wrote to senior aides on Capitol Hill.
The exception claimed by Cheney’s office recalls his attempt last year to evade rules for classified documents by deeming the vice-president’s office a hybrid branch of government - both executive and legislative.
The Democratic congressman who is investigating the legal framework for the violent interrogation of terrorist suspects, John Conyers, has asked Addington and several other top Bush administration lawyers to testify. Thus far all have claimed their deliberations are privileged.
However, Philippe Sands QC, law professor at University College, London, has agreed to appear in Washington and discuss the revelations in Torture Team, his new book on the consequences of the brutal tactics used at Guantanamo.
Excerpts from Torture Team were previewed exclusively by the Guardian earlier this month.
Two witnesses sought by Conyers, former US attorney general John Ashcroft and former US justice department lawyer John Yoo, claimed that their involvement in civil lawsuits related to harsh interrogations allows them to avoid appearing before Congress.
In letters to attorneys representing Ashcroft and Yoo, Conyers shot down their arguments and indicated he would pursue subpoenas if their clients did not testify at his May 6 hearing.
“I am aware of no basis for the remarkable claim that pending civil litigation somehow immunises an individual from testifying before Congress,” Conyers wrote.
Conyers, who chairs the House of Representatives judiciary committee, also questioned the reasoning of Cheney’s lawyer in a letter to Addington.
“It is hard to know what aspect of the invitation [to you] has given rise to concern that the committee might seek to regulate the vice president’s recommendations to the president,” Conyers wrote.
“Especially since far more obvious potential subjects of legislation are plentiful,” he added, mentioning several: US laws on the use of torture on terrorist suspects, the 15-year-old War Crimes Act, and the rules that allowed the Bush White House to receive legal advice from a specialised office within the justice department.
© 2008 The Guardian
This is the consequence of taking ‘impeachment’ off the table. As soon as the Democrats did that, Cheney knew he could tell them to go stuff themselves and they couldn’t do anything.
The founders provided a remedy for this behavior in the Constitution. Unfortunately, the Democratic leadership is determined to protect Bush and Cheney from the consequences of their crimes that they taken it ‘off the table’.
Congress is obligated to uphold the US Constitution; The Geneva Convention; and other International Laws. If they continue to REFUSE to meet those obligations they are as guilty as the administration for CRIMES AGAINST THE UNITED STATES, ITS CITIZENS, AND HUMANITY IN GENERAL.
Congress is also obliged to investigate 9/11 however
tragic and revealing it proves.
Sick stuff. 98% of the US population will never see this article.
Are you f**king kidding me?
I have been dragged out of Conyers’ office and arrested by Capitol Hill police for demanding impeachment. I have been dragged out of the State of the Union for wearing a t-shirt…it’s time that Congress send Capitol Hill police to the VP’s office…and do it before there is another pesky fire to burn any evidence.
At this point, we do have a dictatorship. This is just another coup, in the long line of BushCo coups that have demolished our rule of law…with the cooperation of a bend-over Congress.
Amazing!
xo
Cindy
Whit, Sorry to inform you but it is 99.99999999999%
What do you expect from cheney? He sees himself as a king, who dares dethrone him? Not any mere mortal
Just another example of how cheney is NOT about to hand power over to Hillary or Barack in Nov.
I agree with Cindy that the Capitol police go directly to cheney’s office and arrest him (and his little sidekick too while they’re at it).
Actually, Cheney’s lawyers are wrong. Since Cheney is a publicly elected federal official, by law he has to be held to the same standards as the President, even if he is complicit in commiting high crimes and misdemeanors. His lawyers need to go back and review the Constitution. They are on very weak ground.
“Thus far all have claimed their deliberations are privileged.”
Let’s see these lawyers are paid by my tax dollars and not by Cheney. Guess what? I, through my representatives have a right to know what is going on.
OYE
To the streets, People…to the streets!! We still have the power. Name the place and the date. PS…..Better make sure it’s before these military exercise 5/1-5/8…..Have a better answer? I’m all ears!
There seem to be differing legal and political opinions about whether impeachment now or legal action later against members of the Bush-Cheney administration is the wisest course of action.
Investigation and possible prosecution for crimes could be sabotaged by pardons by the current administration.
Waiting until they are out of office could have advantages. However, this leaves them free to continue questionable activities now without any risk of impeachment.
Some of these elements are explored in the article:
“Going in Circles: Vietnam, Iraq, Calls for Impeachment”
Truthout.org
16 January 2007
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/011607D.shtml
Author’s blog site is:
http://jointreconstudygroup.blogspot.com/
The only remaining method Congress has to exercise its Constitutionally mandated oversight function is impeachment, and it is way past time that impeachment of Cheney and then Bush should begin.
If impeachment proceedings do not occur a dangerous precedent will be set for all future administrations that they are above the law.
Oh Claudius. You may be right but in reality you are wrong. The Cheney Bush cabal make up the rules as they see fit. They bow to no law or anyone. they have gotten away with everything they wanted to, and I mean everything! What makes you (and all of us for that matter) think he will obey any law now? Even if he killed a rich white baby on live TV his lawyers would have a defence. And he would just say, “So”.
Conyers is a feeble-minded fool who is perfect for “leading” the investigation; anything he touches is still-born.
This will buy them time to create more mischief and who knows how much of it before they leave -
if that ever happens.
We’ve had two more years of America being tortured by these thugs because Pelosi and Reid didn’t move to IMPEACH.
If congress has no oversight authority then who does?
I think it’s time the people do the oversight…dicky ain’t gonna like that.
Cindy: I agree with you. Pelosi sold out America when she said: “impeachment was off of the table”. She took an solemn oath to up hold the Constitution and if Bush and his evil buddy aren’t guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors, then no one will ever be—except anyone that has sex in the oval office!!!
limric,
Yes, you are correct about reality. Sorry, I should have included that. I yearn for the days when politicians took the Constitution seriously and the Congress actually did its job. Thanks for the reality check.
I guess the Bushies were right about the status of the US Constitution. It really is “just a goddamn scrap of paper”.
It certainly appears highly unlikely that anyone has either the will or the intestinal fortitude to prove them wrong.
Maine-ah,
The number you wrote would mean that that there is only a one in 1700 chance that a single person on earth will read this story. But it is certainly worse than Stiv’s estimate of one out of fifty.
But back to the topic - does anyone have trouble imagining any way out of the current descent into fascism at this point?
The only thing I can imagine is some kind complete economic collapse, precipitating an overthrow of the current republic - and there is at least a 50% chance that this would only plunge the US even deeper into fascism.
Alternatively, like Germany and Japan, as a result of a severe economic depression the US wages a world war, gets defeated by a worldwide alliance against it, then under the guidance of occupation forces, establishes a new democratic republic. But then again, that option was foreclosed in the New Mexico desert on July 15, 1945.
The only way we are likely to see Cheney leave office is on a stretcher. After a massive fatal coronary his pacemaker couldn’t handle.
Any bets that he nominates himself again to be McCain’s running mate? Or am I being too cynical?
In any case, Bushco is frantically laying the groundwork for the imminent attack on Iran. The US ambassador to the UN has stated categorically that Iran is responsible for supplying arms and explosives to the ‘insurgents’ in Iraq. And it was only months ago that Bush said that ‘if there was ANY sign that Iran was responsible for US servicemen’s deaths’ he would attack Iran.
The hype to attack Iran is just as bogus as the WMD scare to attack Iraq. But it is more subtle this time. I am willing to bet money we will see a ‘Tonkin Gulf’ incident on US Navy vessels, possibly during the May 1-8 ‘ emergency preparedness drills’.
Duck and cover, boys and girls.
Cheney’s lawyers are so smart they can also write legal briefs explaining why every protester of the Iraq war is a traitor to be hanged from the neck until dead. The defense argument that Cheney and Co. launched the war in violation of the UN charter and the US constitution will be deemed “irrelevant, immaterial, ludicrous and indeed, pathetic.” We who protest here are the hangees, not the hangors.
So…
If you and I decide to BREAK THE LAW….then all we have to do is..have someone SUE US AND WE CAN AVOID HAVING TO GO BEFORE CERTAIN GOVERNMENTAL PANELS?
WOW!
Far-fuckin-out!
Y’know…I have ALSO been wondering about TORTURE? AS IN..IF I DECIDE TO WATERBOARD SAY..FOR EXAMPLE..THE STUDENTS INVOLVED WITH THE “GHOST WORKS” PROGRAMS OF DEFENSE CONTRACTORS..SAY THOSE LITTLE WANNABE SCUMBAGS INVOLVED IN HELPING THE SURVIELLANCE SOCIETY BECOME REALITY..WELL..WHAT IF I WATERBOARD EM..AND THEN…WHAT? WOULD THAT BE OKAY? COULD I JUST SAY..”HEY..THAT IS NOT A CRIME..PERIOD! SO…LEAVE ME ALONE..!”
OR WHAT IF I WATERBOARDED SOME REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRATIC OR RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS…SAY TO FIND OUT WHAT ILLEGAL ACTIVITY THEY HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN..YOU KNOW..”PRE-EMPTIVE” TYPE DISCOVERY PROCESS…YOU KNOW..JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE ARE NO ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES GOING ON…BECAUSE YOU NEVER KNOW…AND SO..ANYWAY..WOULD THAT BE..SIMPLY PUT…”OKAY”? I THINK IT ACTUALLY WOULD..BECAUSE THERE IS NO STIPULATION THAT I HAVE READ OR HEARD YET THAT INDICATES THAT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HOW THE “GOVERNMENT” BREAKS THE LAW..OR MAKES UP LEGAL EXCUSES FOR OBVIOUSLY ILLEGAL ACTIVITY..AND HOW OR WHY…THE CITIZENRY CANNOT DO THE SAME…AFTER ALL..IF IT IS ILLEGAL..THEN THAT IS THAT….SO..IS IT THE CASE…AND I DO NOT KNOW…BUT IS IT THE CASE THAT ONCE THERE HAS BEEN AN EXCUSE MADE..BY THE GOVERNMENT NO LESS..FOR SAY..”TORTURE” THAT THIS THEN (SIMILE?) IS..”OKAY”? I DUNNO..KIND OF CONVOLUTED POINT..I KNOW…BUT I THINK IT IS CLEAR WHAT I AM ASKING…CAN I NOW TORTURE ANYONE I PLEASE TO SEE IF THEY HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN ILLEGAL ACTIVITY?
I CANNOT WAIT..I THINK THERE ARE MANY LOCAL POLITICIANS AND STATE AND FEDERAL POLITICIANS THAT ARE CURRENTLY INVOLVED IN ILLEGAL ACTIVITY…SO..MAYBE I SHOULD…OR WE SHOULD….FIND OUT..EH WHAT? AT LEAST IT SEEMS TO ME THAT IT MIGHT BE “LEGAL” TO TRY AND FIND OUT WHAT..ILLEGAL REAL ESTATE DEALS OR OTHER EVIL SHIT THEY ARE UP TO..WHAT ABOUT THOSE LITTLE SWINE WANNABE FASCISTS THAT ARE PART OF YOUR LOCAL “INFRAGUARD” YOU KNOW THE FBI PRIVATE EXCLUSIVE GROUP OF “BUSINESS” PEOPLE THAT CAN SNITCH ON YOU AND BASICALLY USE THE FULL POWER OF THE FBI TO TAKE OUT THEIR LITTLE FANTASIES OF BULLYHOOD ON THE REST OF US? WELL..THERE ARE ALREADY TWO ACCOUNTS OF WHAT THEIR “POWERS” ARE…FOR EXAMPLE THAT THEY CAN ACTUALLY “SHOOT” TO KILL ..AUTHORIZED…FBI DENIES THIS..BUT..WELL..MAYBE THE LOCAL “SAFEWAY” VP..AN ACTUAL “MEMBER” IN NORTHERN CAL..SF..CHAPTER OF “INFRAGARD”..WELL..MAYBE HE IS ILLEGALLY GIVING CUSTOMER DATA FROM..”CLUB CARDS” BECAUSE YOU KNOW…EVERYONE WANTS TO SAVE A LITTLE MONEY WHILE BUYING THEIR DASTARDLY DEEDS GROCERY ITEMS..WELL..ANYWAY..MAYBE HE SHOULD BE…”COMPELLED” TO TELL US WHAT HE KNOWS…FOR IT IS SURELY ILLEGAL…AND SO…ANY KIND OF TREATMENT IS NOW…’JUSTAFIABLE’ AND AS THERE IS NO TELLING FOR WHOM OR IN WHAT CAPACITY A “CITIZEN” IS ACTUALLY AND “AGENT”…MAYBE..WELL..UNDER THE SECRECY ACTS…ALL 20 OF EM..MAYBE I CAN JUST GO IN AND ROUST HIM OUT OF HIS OFFICE AND TORMENT HIM FOR AWHILE UNTIL HE TALKS…HMMMM..YOU THINK?
SEE YOU IN THE TRENCHES..MAYBE..
LIVE FREE OR DIE
Quick, someone tell Anthony Scalia, that the Executive branch is RE-interpreting the constution AGAIN, and not sticking to its ORIGINAL INTENT….
Did anyone see that interview on Sunday night of him on 60 minutes?
Talk about HUBRIS - that man reeked of it.
Tricky Dick strikes again.
We’ll soon go through all this again when President McCain selects Cheney as his running mate.
Cheney is beyond description. There aren’t enough words in the english language to describe the hatefulness this man can conjuure up. He is the devil personified.
Wake up folks. We have lost our country to the corporate-government-media fascist cabal that runs things anyway they please. It is not Dumbya/Dickhead and their neocon henchpeople who are the real problem. WE THE PEOPLE ARE THE PROBLEM because we continue to elect them and the Nancy Pelosi’s and Harry Reid’s of the world. As much as I’d like to see Cindy Sheehan defeat Pelosi, the thought of that sleazy silver haired fox from Maryland as Speaker of the House is truly frightening.
‘Tis a serious Gordian knot we have created for ourselves. “To the streets” only has a remote chance to work if the military stays on its bases. How much chance do you think there is for that to happen? Zero is too high a number.
Perhaps me and my partner have found the answer — retire to a nice little energy/food/water sufficient foreign country with a low cost of living and watch the slow but steady descent of the USA from world leader to just another once was empire.
Impeach Cheney, or forget constitutional democracy.
Cheney knew.
The Democrats should draft Cheney as their presidential candidate. Perhaps then they would win the office. He’s certainly a lot smarter than they are.
I haven’t read the article yet, and have only read h buchman’s post so far, so hope to not be too redundant with what readers have also stated above.
h buchman,
I agree, but also wonder if Congress hasn’t rendered itself actually more criminal than the Cheney-Bush administration. If yes, then I suppose that it would not amount to significant differences in terms of punishment, i.e., justice, unless all guilty members of Congress were individually indicted for betraying the country and the rest of our world here on “Mother” Earth. I don’t wonder about this in practical terms, given individual members of Congress would not be given the justice they merit; but the question still comes to mind in terms of what the laws on books actually provide for.
Imo, Congress is more guilty, for it could have ordered full stoppage of this war as of the moment it was criminally launched; but instead, and as we all know, chose to continually refund the continuation of the war or military aggression (how ever you prefer to refer to it).
There’s that, and the fact that the Congressional authorisation of fall 2002 did not allow for the launching of the war, for Saddam met the contingency requirements or demands of the Bush-Cheney-Congress cabal. The weapons inspections were wholly successful, in favourable terms for Iraq, and still criminally interrupted or curbed; and there was absolutely no way to provide any proof whatsoever that Saddam had any relationship with the CIA’s Al Qa’ida or involvement in the 9-11 attacks.
The authorisation was dead done cooked fini null-and-voided. And Congress definitely knew this and silently allowed, surely some members also having supported, the launching and maintenance of this military aggression against a CRUSHED country, it’s whole population; except for perhaps the Kurds in the north.
They could’ve stopped Cheney-Bush right away, so I believe Congress is even more guilty than the exec. branch is. If Congress had acted according to law and moral ethics, instead of the ethics, i.e., norms, of state gangsterism, then only the exec. branch and all of its counterparts, such as Ahmad Chalabi and his INC, f.e., would’ve been guilty. Of course we could and surely should add all U.S. military generals, … who had no reason to not realise that the war was criminal aggression; for, and after all, there is NO excuse for them not strongly, really wholly, siding with the U.S. Constitution, so also international laws, ….
I think that’s worse than them only being criminal enablers of the supreme international crime. But I’m no law expert and maybe the human-established laws do not cover the above sort of judgement or ruling.
Re. 9-11, the following is an article I believe everyone should carefully read and keep in mind.
“9/11 Contradictions:
When Did Cheney Enter the Underground Bunker?”,
by David Ray Griffin, Apr 24 2008
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8788
There are some slightly older articles of this very above kind, the considerably many and strong contradictions, at GR, only needing to go to the appropriate index there.
I imagine that those articles are accurate, that is, factually based; and if they are, then the Congress is also guilty for not ensuring thoroughly honest, truthful investigation of the 9-11 attacks. I doubt very much that these authors with these articles at GR fib or distort. Given that the contradictions described are surely fact, there is absolutely no way to legitimately excuse Congress’ inaction; it’s more of the members’ [treasons].
Despotism, totalitarianism!
Them with the gold makes the rules.
I may be naive on this subject, but if Congress thinks it has the power to obtain certain information from an Executive Branch office and is not getting it, why don’t they take the issue to court? My understanding is that is what the judicial branch is to be used for. Everything else is just opinion, which with $4.00 can buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks, or a gallon of gas.
The tree of liberty looks like it needs a bit of nourishment…
I agree the only way that cheney is going to leave office is on a stretcher… I still hope he’s not assissinated, that would make the puke a martyr to the braindead repukes…
the Ego of this man(sic devil) is well beyon d the scope of the law, but not his actions as a public servant, time to get rid of this warmongering profiteer, and this corpirate administration, seems funny that the repuglicans have run up the largest debt, debt in the world history and then have the stupidity to talk about the (tax and spend democrats) like paying down the nation’s debt is a bad thing (who’s debt) I didn’t sign the Checks,,,cancel it and the tax burden of the rich will go down, no income from robbery,national treasury thievery
Cheney appears to be a very sick man, and so does McCain.
Lucifer awaits their arrival. As do we all.
May God help them to their graves pronto.
There is one “branch” of the “government” that can take care of Cheney:
“I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC…”
Can ya hear me now, Military Police? The man formerly known as the Vice President, now known as, er, Unelected Hybrid?, has admitted, repeatedly, to VIOLATING OUR CONSTITUTION, to the point of insisting it does not even apply!!!
Go get em boys…
Seems that this may be true with Cheney or Bush as no one will challenge him to the contrary.
Cata - I hate to be the one to tell you, but you are naive in the extreme if you think that ‘taking the issue to court’ is going to make any difference. Did you happen to notice the make-up of the Supreme Court? Did you read about the White House-directed firing of Federal Judges that they didn’t toe the White House line?
And still you believe that the U.S. justice system is blind or would be blind in this case?
Wake up and smell the coffee. We’re long past the time where naivete of US citizens about their criminal government can be tolerated, let alone considered cute.
Actually, in 2008, while its true that Bush submitted a budget that increased the deficit, Congress increased the budget by another 22 Billion above Bushes budget thus increasing the deficit further. As Ralph Nader once said, the difference between Democrats and Republicans is their party symbols.
Nothing is going to happen. Conyers will write yet another “strongly worded letter” and that will be that. Impeachment was/is the only answer and that isn’t going to happen either. The circle is unbroken and the mission of the fascists has been achieved. It no longer matters who is to blame.
Economic collapse and hungry bellies are the only things that will get the sustained attention of the masses. Couple that with gas shortages (not just increased prices) and we have a real shot at some fundamental changes. But what will the changes be? Getting the masses to move in the same direction as their best interests is wishful thinking at this point. Without a true leader like a Gandhi (sp) or a King we are all screwed.
I don’t know what to do anymore. I’m too old to be scared. But young enough to be very sad and rapidly running out of hope. It’s taken a long time to grind me down to this point. And maybe that was the game all along. Mission accomplished……
I think the justice system works fine even if its goes against my point of view. In a Democracy, the justice system, depending on who is sitting on the bench, determined by who appoints, will always be against someone’s point of view. That doesn’t make it wrong, just frustrating.
what’s the big deal? I love the dictator we have. Keep him in the whitehouse until he dies from old age. Nobody seems to care anyway. those that matter i mean. We the people deserve what we’ve gotten ourselves into. Let’s hope Bush and co. blow up this piece of shit world. We deserve it.
” Stiv Whitman April 29th, 2008 12:03 pm
Sick stuff. 98% of the US population will never see this article.”
I SURE HOPE that was true years [ago], not anymore; people should’ve begun to realise, and as of years [ago], that they can’t rely on the corporate U.S. msm “news” media for truth, or not for more than barely a little truth anyway. And I read a number of times over the past two years, or so, that “Americans” had realised this and began looking for reporting from outside the USA and/or alternative U.S. sources; but I don’t know to what extent this has been true.
—————————
” cindysheehan April 29th, 2008 12:03 pm
…it’s time that Congress send Capitol Hill police to the VP’s office…and do it before there is another pesky fire to burn any evidence. …”
OR ANOTHER false-flag incident, maybe; another “Reichstag fire”.
“Reichstag fire in 1933, which provided a pretext for the Nazis to increase their power”
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Reichstag
—————————
” willybill April 29th, 2008 12:18 pm
To the streets, People…to the streets!! We still have the power. Name the place and the date. PS…..Better make sure it’s before these military exercise 5/1-5/8″
KEEP WATCH ON THAT!
—————————
” Hammo April 29th, 2008 12:23 pm
There seem to be differing legal and political opinions about whether impeachment now or legal action later against members of the Bush-Cheney administration is the wisest course of action.
Investigation and possible prosecution for crimes could be sabotaged by pardons by the current administration.”
YES, there seem to be differing views, only they’re not all right or valid, and the military aggression must be stopped without delay.
As for the sabotaging by applying pardons, once the Bush-Cheney team are declared to be minimally under investigation, they certainly should NO longer have any privilege to pardon anyone of anything. They don’t need to be investigated in terms of whether not the military aggressions indeed are supreme international crimes, for there is no way to credibly deny that they are; it’s worldwide known fact. So once Congress finally acknowledges this latter truth, then that should be accompanied by an immediate cessation of all privileges of the executive branch.
They don’t need to be proven guilty; it’s worldwide known fact that they most definitely, unquestionably are. And that means a jury trial is NOT required; there being NO call for one. However, there’d still be additional investigations for other and related crimes of the Bush-Cheney cabal; such as, f.e., the need to re-open the 9-11 investigations and with an independent team doing this. It would surely be good for people from other countries to be brought in for this, as is done when they go to countries at election times and in order to try to help ensure respect for democracy.
To not stop these military aggressions NOW! is to be complicit in these supreme international crimes, destructions and toxic pollution of countries, the murder of millions of innocents, and so on. There is NO time for any delays whatsoever, to stop all of these supreme crimes.
I’ll take a look at the article you posted a link for, but NO amount of logic or reasoning can ethically permit us to NOT stop these damn military aggressions. The value of LIFE must be held to the highest of all priorities, nothing substituting for it; except when we naturally die and receive the substitute after-life.
—————————
“Dump Bush April 29th, 2008 12:30 pm
…
If impeachment proceedings do not occur a dangerous precedent will be set for all future administrations that they are above the law.”
NOW that’s logic I can agree with; and as you say, such an outcome must be prevented.
Furthermore, it would not only be a precedent with respect to U.S. presidential administrations; any other state leaders could do the same and, without hypocrisy, tell the U.S. govt to F*CK OFF whenever it’d try to oppose other govts from also committing supreme international crimes. The USA being the superpower means that it’d have the ability to yet again exercise its hypocrisy and hegemony, but the precedent the other govt leaders could use for diabolical excuse would still exist, or have been established, and criminally so, by the U.S. Congress.
“The ball now is in the court of” Congress, and it needs to act.
—————————
ezeflyer,
As you wrote, but only until someone else decides to act and remake the rules, again.
Hate Cheney, yes, but he is just doing his job for the corporate war profiteers, and in their eyes he’s doing a heck of a job. When he is gone another corporate/government con artist will fill his position. It may be in a different capacity, not necessarily the VP’s office.
The system has been rigged for years, this is not new. It’s just that these bastards, Cheney in particular, are so wantonly arrogant and brazen that they evoke such contempt. The subtle (but devious, think Bill Clinton) tact that normally exists with political/corporatists is missing from these yahoos.
And that may be the only good to come from all this; complete exposure of the corruption, greed, and arrogance of empire, for all to see.
Question is, now what? Seems to be a paralysis everywhere. Yet I think some unforeseen, “Black Swan” event or circumstance will eventually tip over the cart of rotting corporate apples. Maybe then we can reshape our world, what’s left of it.
I’ve been saying this for a while, but what if we started handing out these articles, on the streets? If people knew, I truly believe we could do something.
Mark my word, the Democrats will accomplish nothing. This is just more blather to make it appear that the Democrats are somehow different than Republicans.
Both parties vote for war.
Both parties vote to fund the war.
Both parties vote for the Patriot Act.
Both parties allow the torture to continue.
Both parties fund Guantanamo Bay.
Both parties are beholden to corporate interests.
Neither party supports universal, single payer health care system.
Both parties support nuclear weapons and nuclear power.
We’ll never get a progressive agenda from the Democrats. It is all just an illusion and you suckers fall for it every time.
I repeat, crooks are crooks, no one likes a crook, just ask Nixon. it is time to start flooding editorial pages of our local and not so local press, and demand action , ase well as truth not sop, suckups to corpirate B.S., even PBS is sucking up, now, CARRIER, what ? and Daljit Dalewal, pimping forright wing bull**** like the comments last sunday from some bitch who works for the parent sponsored corporate think tank shill, making comments about repression in Venezuala, just dirt,,,the only repression is giving the poor land from Lord Meat of Britain, and shuting down the mouthpiece of the reactionary rich, temporaily, not unlike the threats on PBS
Hey Dick, Go Fuck Yourself
“Economic collapse and hungry bellies are the only things that will get the sustained attention of the masses. Couple that with gas shortages (not just increased prices) and we have a real shot at some fundamental changes.”
–Rebel Farmer April 29th, 2008 2:08 pm
I wish I could be as sanguine about the future as you. I think of how unreachable brainwashed Americans are, and I think of how the Germans fought on with their country in Ruins. When the German soldiers were dead or exhausted, seniors and children fought on hopelessly in Berlin as Russians entered from the east and Americans invaded from the west.
That’s how I think it will work out for the U.S. too. History shows that it’s easier for people to starve or to die than to admit that they are wrong.
The worse things get for Americans, the more countries they will attack, the more vicious the attacks will become, and the more hateful and repressive the government will become domestically.
Good post Rebel Farmer, and “hang in there”, which I’m sure you’ll do. I have been feeling and thinking much as you describe for some years now, and we’re now getting more crushing or very disturbing news for additional weight.
I sometimes feel all this hell is going to cause me to have a heart attack or seizure; but have learned to sense that and to immediately calm down or, and minimally, concentrate on breathe deeply and slowly, sometimes adding a little meditation.
The worst part is not being able to do anything about all this despotism, etcetera, and I mean to effectively stop it; for we obviously can protest.
As for the U.S. economy likely needing to very totally crash in order to wake up enough Americans, I thought this back in the latter half of the 1990s and sort of cursed the country, saying it needed to crash and sort of stating this in directive manner. I said ’sort of’ only because my reasons were of the righteous realm, that is, principled; not out of pleasure or perversion, say.
There were a number of times that I sure hoped that curse of mine wasn’t related to Bush-Cheney hijacking the presidency as swiftly as happened, and all of their additional crimes since.
But it’s like you say, the USA is not going to correct itself without quite total economic collapse. It’d surely help to motivate many who have been idle, complacent, … to finally start to be well principled and actively so. It’s better than sacrificing Iraqis, Afghans, Haitians, Africans, South Americans, and etcetera; definitely.
It’ll teach Americans to accept to eat ‘humble pie’.
Take to the streets? We would be there by ourselves, ignored by the propaganda machine and tasered by the police for disturbing the peace.
cata, a great line from “A Few Good Men”; “I object” “Overruled” “I Strongly Object” “OVERRULED”. A court system is no better than the people who appoint the judges, that’s why the Senate was given the power to “advise and consent”, in which responsibilities the current Senate has abdicated. So now we have hacks and idealogues making political instead of Constitutional decisions. Such as the 2000 appointment of Bush into office. Sandra Day O’Connor betrayed her oath of office with her vote, and admitted she thought Bush would be the better president, although I hear she now regrets that choice. That should not have been the basis of her decision.
The fact that this story isn’t on the front page of every newspaper in the country tells us that this country is no longer a Constitutional democracy - well, republic. The rule of law no longer exists. The sad part is no one even knows it. And most young people can’t even define our Constitution, or it’s role in our country. The fourth estate has also betrayed it’s first amendment Constitutional responsibility to be the public watchdog, becoming instead a fifth column for the corporate dictatorship.
We’re seeing the results of letting the pit bulls off the leash, which is the responsibility of the House of Representatives. Pelosi needs to be removed from office. Good luck, Cindy. I hear Nancy has a Democratic opponent. If you and she split the opposition vote, will that put Nancy back in?
kathyodat
rebelnow, you’re right. The system is set up so it continues to function with new psychopaths when the old ones fade away.
However, some are uniquely suited for evil, and so they keep showing up again and again. I believe that Cheney is one of them.
I just read an article in Radar magazine. It talked about the plans for martial law and COG and pointed out that plans have been laid before.
One very interesting point was that when plans were laid by Oliver North (one of those recurring psychopaths) in Rex 84, Cheney and Rumsfield were slated for positions in the COG (continuity of government, or martial law), even though Cheney was a lowly rep from Wyoming and Rumsfield wasn’t even in government. He was head of a pharmaceutical company.
So I believe that these are two men deep in the underbelly of the US shadow government.
Ghawar, the reason German children and elderly took up arms is that it was the Germans turn to be invaded. Here we are stomping around the world crushing other countries, but if they banded together and pushed back and invaded us, you and I also would be fighting back. No one wants to be invaded, whether they deserve it or not. That’s what we can’t get our heads around with Iraq, not knowing how it feels.
kathyodat
Who do we turn to when those we entrust to safeguard our constitution are derelict in their duties.
Protecting the constitution is no less important a job as the military’s protection of our country.
When will someone stand up with the courage to do his or her job?
The quality, or lack thereof, of our leaders is staggeringly offensive and outrageous.
Incidentally, there seems to be a dramatic increase in the number of persons wanting the truth about 9/11 . . . The root of their suspicions being the crimes the world reports the administration is known to have committed.
The truth must be revealed however tragic.
Here’s a link to a very interesting article, titled “Clinton, Obama and the Narcissist’s Tale”. Check it out. It explains what’s happening here. It poses a question in two parts that is thought provoking.
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/27/AR2008042701660.html
kathyodat
Here is at least one chance to get out and show solidarity with folks who are putting themselves on the line Thursday, May 1 - th eILWU
You can get out in the streets ANYWHERE you are!
Any CDers within range of San Francisco should try to show solidarity with these folks on May 1.
This is the event our fellow CDer peaceman has been talking about.
Think of it - a slap at Pelosi in her own back yard.
Clash ahead over longshore union war protest
George Raine, Chronicle Staff Writer
Saturday, April 26, 2008
Members of the International Longshore & Warehouse Union are proceeding with plans for a work stoppage at 29 West Coast ports on May 1 to protest the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, despite the fact that union leadership has withdrawn its request to waterfront employers that they accommodate closure of the ports.
Planning for the protest began in February when the Longshore Caucus, the highest decision-making body for the 25,000 members of the longshore division within the ILWU, overwhelmingly approved a resolution in support of a day of protest.
…… for remainder see:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/04/26/BUC610C2HA.DTL&hw=longshore&sn=001&sc=1000
P.S. from Cindy
cindysheehan April 28th, 2008 7:54 pm
My statement of solidarity with ILWU…….
Dear Brothers and Sisters of the ILWU,
On behalf of myself and my congressional campaign, and in memory of my son Casey, I want to thank you for the principled and dignified action that you are taking on May 1st.
The exemplary resolution passed by your Longshore Caucus, and your decision to stop work on the West Coast docks on May 1, 2008 points the way for all of us who struggle to end the disastrous war and occupation of Iraq. This illegal and immoral war has been forced on us by the Republican administration, and has been funded enthusiastically by both the Democratic and Republican parties in Congress. The Democratic Party, under the leadership of Nancy Pelosi, continues a policy of full cooperation with and financial support for the Bush administration’s war. While many Democrats will utter words that are critical of the highly unpopular war, their party simply will not use its political power to take any action to stop the carnage.
The ILWU has shown that it is an independent workers’ union, morally superior to the Democratic Party in every respect. Once again, the Longshoremen of the West Coast are demonstrating that it is possible to oppose the war-mongering corporate politicians, and prevent them from dividing and conquering the movements of the workers and peoples. You Longshoremen have kept this powerful and noble tradition alive on their waterfront since the 1930s.
I want you to know that there is a congressional candidate in the Bay Area who supports you and your heroism. I thank you for refusing to load scrap iron for the Japanese invasion of China in the 30s. I thank you for your refusal to load bombs for the fascist dictatorship of Augusto Pinochet in 1978. I thank you for your support of the Charleston Five, the Liverpool Dockers, the Longshoremen of Australia, of Chile, and all the other workers of the world with whom you stand in solidarity.
I thank you for your heroic stop-work actions in defense of Mumia Abu-Jamal, the Black labor journalist falsely accused of killing a police officer. I thank you for honoring the US Labor Against The War picket line against SSA on the Docks of Oakland in both 2003 and 2007.
I am offended by the arrogance, the chauvinism, and the sneering spitefulness that has been shown towards you by the Pacific Maritime Association and its member companies. If these employers had any sense of honor, they would be proud to cooperate with you on May 1st, and would eagerly join in your struggle to oppose this horrific war. My sympathy goes out to any workers who must negotiate the terms of their work against such cold and heartless war profiteers as the ones you bravely face in every contract negotiation. Their willful intransigence in the face of your principles should be enough to convince every honest elected official that your employers are bitter opponent of the people, and threats to the public good.
I will stand with you on May 1st in San Francisco and Oakland, and I encourage people everywhere to take up your call to resist the war. I will be with you on the picket line. I pledge to do whatever I can to aid and assist you in your noble effort, both on May 1st and in the days and weeks that follow.
An injury to one is an injury to all, and an injury to Longshoremen is an injury to me.
In Solidarity,
Cindy Sheehan
(cindy@cindyforcongress.org)
Do not, I repeat, do not shoot the president first.
Sorry Rebel Farmer - “…young enough to be very sad and rapidly running out of hope…mission accomplished” - not convinced, not accepted.
Your spelling of Gandhi is correct as are your perceptions of humanity: “Economic collapse and hungry bellies are the only things that will get the sustained attention of the masses.” If you/We focus on the fact that economic collapse and hungry bellies are events that elicit a human response, then We will be on the Gandhian King path - culturing a human response, without economic collapse or hungry bellies (there are many forms) was perhaps Martin and Mohandas’ greatest skill - and it is a human skill, available to you and me.
I guarantee that if you, based on previous postings at CD, or Congressional candidate Sheehan, based on taking her passions beyond grief (don’t We all have a need to go there?) were to work with me: both of you could find and culture the Kingliness of Gandhian mindfulness - but it must be a calling, and, like Martin and Mohandas you must face the fear of the assassins bullet - if you are not ready, I am; of course Mohandas had an Ashram and sponsors to culture his mindfulness…of course it is a universe of abundance, yes? Are you ready to contribute or be contributed to?
John Conyers is a Toothless Lion, why ask a Toothless Lion to roar? Would it not be better to supply this Lion with teeth and let his natural roar echo within the halls of Congress…and from the Alleghenies to the Redwood forests, from the red clay of Georgia to the headwaters of the mighty Mississippi…around the world?
Sheehan is close to the path: focusing on keeping the Constitution on the American family’s table via impeachment, all that is needed are some small but significant differences - impeachment/the Constitution as the organizing principle (not anger, grief or sorrow), impeachment (for hearings, and nothing more at this point, let conviction come or not, hearings are the human response and culture) impeachment/the Constitution as the organizing principle for voter registration and motivation, door to door, face to face, hand to hand - the “Salt March to the Sea” - educating the People as to their City, State and Federal Representatives and how to engage them, for now with the Call for Impeachment Hearings: for this human contact will break the hold of the fear of terror, and, the more predominate fear of appearing soft on terror that grips the Nation’s decision making process - for the circle that counts: Citizen to Representative to Citizen is broken, but it can be healed (perhaps constructed for the first time in human history[?!]).
I’ve applied the dignified humanistic principles called for here to assist the healing and human function for children with birth traumas, and without surgery (war) or casting (occupation) - the same principles of human dignity can be applied on the macro level - not only releasing the American Spirit from the bondage of fear, but returning the American Spirit to it’s rightful place along the path of the greater glory of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
“Congress has NO authority over Vice President”.___ No shit.___ When a king is running the country, Congress has NO athority over anything.
The time has come for the removal of all government positions. The U.S. Constitution is a mere ghost of what it used to be. The mass public will soon be ready to give up their low paying jobs, their soon to be lack of food, shelter, the basics, so that they may revolt against a corporate biased government no longer for the People, and solely for interests outside of the Common.
For those who do not know, the geological facts of peak oil production will affect no other nation on earth more than the United States. We are living the nightmare as we communicate. Ten dollar a gallon gasoline is right around the corner; this is not only greed from the oil companies, but the mere economic principles of supply and demand. Cheap light crude oil has peaked. Our industrial society built on cheap oil will forever be changed. How can a society sustain bringing the average piece of produce three thousand miles without it being cost prohibitive particularly after cheap oil has ended?
How can a world that could only support about a billion people in pre-industrial times support seven, eight, ten billion people in an post industrial era? What are most commonly used fertilizers and pesticides derived from? We have not even got to what global warming will become. These are what the next true LEADERS will have to contend with if we have not gone back to a barbaric state of gangs, warlords, and rogue militias competing for control of such basics as water.
The time has come to prepare for the worst, start a garden, be vehemently vocal about your outrage to what this out of control government is doing to us, to the world. No more. And I truly hope for a peaceful change, but, it does not look as this will be the way. Those willing to be warriors, protect those who are willing to die for peace, love. There are many paths, and if we all come together, the journey will not be so bad, but it will be a journey that not one of us could have expected.
Forget this stuff about our government torturing people! Here is a really important story on the US Newswire!
Miley Cyrus photo shoot stirs controversy
Tuesday, April 29, 2008
By Monica Haynes, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Evan Agostini/Associated Press
Miley Cyrus says she thought her Vanity Fair photos would be “artistic.”
Ubiquitous pop culture princess Miley Cyrus, whose image is displayed everywhere from the TV screen to clothing and lip gloss, is learning the hard way that what is artistic to some is totally inappropriate to others.
The 15-year-old star of the Disney Channel’s hugely successful teen comedy “Hannah Montana” is trying to keep her head above the wave of controversy surrounding a Vanity Fair photo in which she appears to be draped by a silk sheet without any top on underneath it.
The photo, one of a series taken by famed photographer Annie Leibovitz, comes on the heels of Internet photos in which the young star flashes her midriff and a green bra.
Cyrus, who’s become a role model to millions of young girls because of her squeaky clean, good-girl image, has apologized profusely since the controversial photo became public this past weekend, expressing embarrassment over what she thought were to be “artistic” photos. But quotes in the accompanying Vanity Fair article indicate that Cyrus initially had no problem with the photo shoot and thought the photos were “artsy but not in a skanky way.”
Vanity Fair says Cyrus’ parents and/or minders were on the set of the shoot, saw the photos and never had a problem.
“The time has come to prepare for the worst, start a garden, be vehemently vocal about your outrage to what this out of control government is doing to us, to the world.”
The trouble is, when I’m angry, tending to a garden is the last thing I feel like doing.
Hey, didn’t Big Dick also shoot a guy in the face, then get the guy to apologize for getting in the way of Big Dick’s shot?
Gee, it must really be true that if you have even a little bit of power, the laws don’t apply to you….
If you and those around you value your lives, you will learn to garden, farm, etc. On top of creating food, learn survivals skills, learn how to defend yourself, study revolutions, insurgencies. Know thy enemy; read the Art of War. As the Boy Scouts say, be prepared.
But of course, the all true knowing and well being is all within. If you can stay in the now, everything will always be all right, but we all have our place within this universe.
Could it be he is preparing to nominate himself again - for president?
If the news of torture being authorized right up to the desk of Bush, why should this come as a surprise?
If the continued blatant criminality of this administration is not enough to bring about MASSIVE multiple million person protests and a national strike, then the US truly deserves what is about to befall it…
So what? What in the world are the Democrats going to do about it. Nothing. The same nothing they have done for the past seven years. Cheney and Bush couldn’t exist without a lot of enablers on both sides of the isle.
” Hammo April 29th, 2008 12:23 pm
…
Some of these elements are explored in the article:
“Going in Circles: Vietnam, Iraq, Calls for Impeachment”
Truthout.org
16 January 2007
…”
I just finished reading that article and appreciate the link, finding the article to be very good; even if it’s not long, it provides what I believe to be a view that is important to carefully consider and keep in mind, also carefully.
However, while I agree with the author, Steve Hammons, and quite wholly so, but now meaning with respect to wherein he says,
“Premature action now could result in pardons”,
which horribly happened with the Nixon administration followed by Ford;
well, I will treat or view that issue or concern, or fear, and the need to stop the damn military aggressions and related destruction of countries, murdering millions, etcetera, [separately].
It, again, is because I will not allow fears like the above founded concern take precedence over the value of LIFE. I’ll treat the two aspects as separate issues addressable in separate terms.
Besides, Congress can certainly demand or force cessation of all of these military aggressions, which includes in or against Haiti, among other countries, in addition to Iraq and Afghanistan, without needing to speak of impeachment. Congress should be able to tell the executive branch that the war or military aggression has been criminal all along, express its regrets for not having acted in a timely manner to stop these supreme crimes, and force their cessation. Or Congress could, instead, tell the executive branch that these military actions, which are entirely of aggression, must be stopped due to the economic and human costs. And that’s while not using the term ‘aggression’ to describe these military actions of the USA, for the term inherently means criminal.
I’m using ‘aggression’, but Congress would not need to do so; it could stop these crimes without referring to them as ‘aggression’. Just the economic, human, and environmental costs alone are more than enough for Congress to get with ending these crimes. And if Congress proceded in this manner, then indictments could be filed later on; the most crucial matter or all being to end these crimes.
Procede? Yes; and as opposed to rec[e]ded, acceded, …, not rec[ee]ded, …, to maintain logical spelling of words. Proceeds are a noun, while procede, recede, … are verbs, and so on, f.e.
Perhaps there’s some legal technicality that’d be a block for Congress to do as I’m saying, but such technicalities should NEVER be permitted to have priority over LIFE; they, instead, should be properly corrected. Technicalities that are flawed can be corrected. After all, it’s humans who defined and established the these to begin with. It’s definitely not out of human reach to be able to correct the technical flaws or lacunes or lacunas (lacunae) of humans.
It wouldn’t be easy, for Congress provably is criminally complicit all along; but that also needs to be corrected.
Pardons of Bush, Cheney, and so on, even if this happened, which I believe will likely or surely be the case, given Congress has provided no real ethical credibility whatsoever, except for some members having done so; well, they might be pardoned in the USA, but will remain internationally indictable and could be arrested when traveling abroad. That also likely or surely would not be permitted by the U.S. govt, superpower, but other govts could file indictments nonetheless.
I’ve read that the Spanish judge who got Pinochet to finally have to face trial is someone who may also act in similar terms with Bush, Cheney, …; and I suppose if any judges will do this, then he’s likely to be among them. However, and again, the U.S. govt surely will not cooperate, so we’re left with theoretical abilities to indict and convict these criminals.
Frustrating!
Wherein Hammons says, “We have the chance for a much brighter future, for ourselves and future generations, if we break these damaging patterns and create new circles of positive human development”, and uses ‘we’ in other parts of the article, we MUST NOT neglect Iraqis, Afghans, Haitians, and so on; the ‘we’ must include the victims abroad, not only Americans. Hence, there’s no excuse for delaying full halt of and reversal from these supreme crimes. Otherwise, may the USA BURN, for then, and like it or not, everyone, everyone in the USA anyway, will be profiting from these extreme crimes.
These crimes MUST be stopped, one way or another. Congress can certainly word this in a manner without making the most criminal of the warmongers, …, feel like they’re being pursued for their crimes. For crying out loud, stop these crimes and never pursue Bush, Cheney, … for their crimes; Iraqis, Afghans, Haitians, and so on, [are] [the] topmost priority right now, and if we need, for their sake, to accept to never pursue the war criminals for their crimes, then it’s a sacrifice we can certainly live with much more than with the continuation of these major military aggressions.
I think we can all agree that the lives of these victims are worth NO less than those of people anywhere else. Else, we do wish to profit from the crimes against all of these peoples or populations.
We’ll wind up profiting from these crimes whether we like or not, it’s not something we’ll really be able to completely avoid; but we can and should be principled enough to not wish for these profits, and seek ways to minimize this as much as we can by living [modestly] and refusing to allow tax dollars to be used for military budgets. Iow, as long as we are of the principle to NOT want any such profits, or “benefit”, then we won’t be guilty; just that “benefiting” will be unfortunately unavoidable, entirely anyway. We can certainly minimize.
Anyway, and again, I prefer to treat the two issues as separate or distinct; related, but still distinct enough for us to be able to treat them this way. Top priority is stopping these crimes and I don’t care what wording Congress uses to do or force this, as long as it’s done.
I’ll accept that Bush, Cheney, … will be given a falsely clean slate for the remainder of their lives, as long as these damn crimes are stopped; if this sacrifice is needed in order to get them stopped.
We need to set priorities [correctly]. Humans surely have enough ability to be able to figure out appropriate wording.
Am I at all mistaken? I think not, but if people illustrate that I am, then I’ll carefully consider what’s stated. Moral or ethical is an aspect I wonder not about being at all mistaken about; but am no expert on either law or govt, so maybe there’s a technical way in which my view is okay in theory, but not applicable with [present] laws.
I also checked Steve Hammons’ blog and read the first article posted there, at the top of the homepage, today; and, now having read these two articles by him (who I suppose is yourself), he strikes me as of sound mind and considerable knowledge, certainly enough for me to learn things I didn’t know about.
As for wherein he refers to the present ‘chickenhawk’ warmongers of the GWoT, I think a very good complementary article for Hammons’ at Truthout is the following.
“New Israeli spy probe has a 30-year history, insiders say”, by Jim Lobe, Sep 14 2004
I’ll let people do a simple Web search for URLs, for I read the copy at FinalCall and don’t know if CD would accept the url.
Anyway, I appreciate Hammons’ article at TO and believe he’s definitely right about the Vietnam War and the one today on Iraq being very similar; except we now have these Zionist chickenhawks, who are also motivated for the reasons Hammons states. So there’s a slight difference in that Israel’s [very] involved in terms of motive of “benefactor” today, but the rest … like Hammons says.
Cheney is clearly saying to the gutless Democrats like Conyers, Pelosi, etc.:
“Impeach me, you wimps?”
“I don’t even have to talk to you **ckers!!”
“None of you even have the balls to confront me, you slime.”
As much as I hate Cheney, it would be entirely accurate of him to give these clowns such a brush-off.”
sometimes i think these forums just exist so people can vent in the virtual world
and feel relieved by doing so
thus avoiding doing much in the ‘real’ world
LOOK — they don’t really care that much what you say
As long as you pay your TAXES on time !
Oh, for the good old days of the Druids in Pre-Roman Britain…
When the High King screwed up royally (!), and there was long incidence of war, famine or disease, the Druids would elect a new High King, then take the old one out to the local circle of standing stones, and gut him.
The Druids would then foretell how the reign of the new High King would go, looking at how the intestines of the old High king fell out, and his dying convulsions. This was a small pointed reminder of who was really in power.
Too bad the US doesn’t have anything nearly as enlightened…
Dick Cheney’s lawyer, Kathryn Wheelbarger, is right, not even a truckload of Viagra will help this impotent Congress nor any future POTUS. It’s time to secede!
Why are most people surprised that Pelosi took “impeachment off the table?” As most of the Congressional leadership are members of the privileged class.
Those who believe that this government is a representative government must believe in Tinker Bell, too.
You people must also believe that any of the presidental candidates are “from the people.” The three candidates of the main parties are from the privileged class also.
P. T. Barnem was correct when he said “there is a sucker born every minute and two to take him.”
This is on Pelosi. She’s the one that handcuffed Conyers on impeachment. And the brains behind Pelosi is Barney Frank.
What lucky citizens we are. I never thought I would see the day when a sitting Vice-President would claim that the President retains “monarchical prerogatives” in any situation. I he may know nothing about the Federalist papers or the American Revolution, but does he have to defile them so. Can you imagine if John Adams were to hear Cheney claim “monarchical prerogatives” for any President?
“alaskamaid April 29th, 2008 5:04 pm
sometimes i think these forums just exist so people can vent in the virtual world
and feel relieved by doing so
thus avoiding doing much in the ‘real’ world
LOOK — they don’t really care that much what you say
As long as you pay your TAXES on time !”
VALID POINT, and I had that impression as of some years ago already, but am also not in a position to be able to really do anything to stop these extreme crimes and their perpetrators, etc. I don’t pay taxes anywhere, except sales taxes, being too poor to need to pay income taxes, so that part’s covered. What else could I do? I’m too poor to even travel 80 miles away to Montreal, the nearest large city, so I’d definitely be too poor to be able to travel to large or sufficiently large protest demonstrations. ETC.
So what I instead do is to try to find good articles and work on continuing to inform myself, as well as to post to present questions or concerns, or to debate issue topics, …, while also often posting links to what I believe a good or important articles to read.
I can’t even afford new tires for the car, even used new, or new used tires; but I have free access to the Internet and can therefore search, research, etc.
A lot of posts are totally worthless and wasteful of readers’ time, which is [annoying]; but there are also the people who make very good posts, from which I often enough gain more than from the articles here.
If I could afford to return to school to prepare myself for a different line of work I did for 10 years in the 1990s but can’t market myself with today, not in the area where I live anyway, well, then I’d be in school and would therefore have much less time for this sort of Internet activity. I can’t afford the tires, so I definitely can’t afford to pay for schooling.
But you’re still very right.
Never, never forget that BIG WORD.
_________________”SO”.________________
The disgusting and disheartening truth is if Cheney were to read these posts (doubt it), he would just laugh.
He is the most arrogant civil servant (does he know that) this country has had to tolerate in its history. The man is detested but continues on in his monarchical ways and no one steps up to smack him down.
How many millions of Americans are there now? You mean we are subject to the rants and raves of this warmongering lunatic until January (or beyond, if he has his way)?
Conyers can forget the posturing. Pelosi should go home and bake cookies. In fact, the Democrats as a whole are a group of pandering, self-serving desk fillers.
This country is in real trouble.
If Clinton or Obama is expected to have a hard time defeating McCain this fall, where is the support for impeachment going to come from? A substantial minority not only does not want to impeach Bush and Cheney, they’d vote for them again! I think Pelosi realizes this, and doesn’t want to divide the country any more than it is. (She doesn’t need to have any future plans. Cindy Sheehan will be taking care of that.)
I’d say vote for the democrat this fall, Obama or Clinton, and then your choice of moderate dems or repubs, or anyone like Cindy Sheehan who actually has a good chance winning a seat. Then we can hopefully move forward from the arrogance and radicalism of this administration.
Would a little water-boarding make them talk?
cata April 29th, 2008 1:54 pm…. My friend, you are a bit naive….the judiciary is complicit..from the Attorneys General through SCOTUS….just that simple. Look at the SCOTUS decision over Indiana just yesterday…
Cheney’s “monarchical prerogatives” used to be my second favorite, with Putin’s “democracy is the dictatorship of order” being the first. My new second has to be Scalia’s belief torture is not “cruel and unusual” as long as the torturer’s intent is information extraction and not punishment.
A judge can not impose a sentence of prison time with a torture chaser, but the police torturing for information is not banned by the 8th amendment. I thought the Bar Association was supposed to revoke your license whenever you say things like this.
Impeach, indict, imprison.
Get off your duffs and stop whining !!!!
Please make a point to get out in the streets on May 1.
Look for a celebration, march, speech, demonstration near you.
It’ would actually be healthy for us to get out in the ‘real’ world and vent instead of hiding and suppressing our feelings.
You may even feel good about it.
Rember MLK and Gandhi!!
Jcrumb,
You go boy ! ! ! What we have hear is a failure to communicate. What the American public is failing to observe; is the spawning of the Fledgling Facisist’s(sp)Govenment that will soon control the “Former United States of America”.
So?
The hubris and arrogance of these malcontents is limitless. However, the Democrats must accept some responsibility for the response from the White House. If they won’t use the constitution and congressional power to hold these morons to account, then they must accept the consequences.
The Democrats lack conviction and courage and the Republicans and their corrupt supporters will take full advantage, no doubt ripping apart the very soul and social fabric of a great nation.
Yet another sad day for America.
Social Studies 101:Checks and Balances!
Yes, it’s true. This congress has no dick.
Jeepers America, with such a drastic reduction of options left to restore democracy, it seems that Cheney is begging for the last resort of final “authority” from some well armed sniper, maybe a pissed-off one-legged poisoned Iraq vet with an M16.
Unlike invasion and occupation, revolution is never a cake walk. It’s not something you can sit back, crack a beer and watch on TV, because hey, the TV stations are a key part of the fascist consensus trance, and will probably be among the first targets.
Don’t give the arrogant SOB a FREE PASS………
IMPEACH CHENEY >>>>>>>>> IMMEDIATELY !!!!!!!!!!!!
also IMPEACH his puppet George W. Bush at the same time !!!!!!!!!
.
Thank you, USAn, for the US Newswire story “Miley Cyrus photo shoot stirs controversy.” You’ve proven the inescapable truth of MSM news stories in America today. So, on a scale of 1 to 10:
News exposure of nubile young actress’s body = 10
News exposure of a hopelessly corrupt federal government = 0
Any questions?
“For me, all things are legal.”
–Caligula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Richard_Cheney_2005_official_portrait.jpg
So most if not all the poster’s here are aggrieved. So it looks like the VP is being dictatorial. So all the pointers to usurpation of the Constitution and rule of law are evident.
To qoute the VP, “So?”
What he meant was ‘So what?’ “WTF are they (the US people) going to do about it?” Don’t you people understand that anything the Executive does is legal? What exactly is wrong with you people? You actually think that the Executive really gives a shit what you think or even what the Constitution or the law requires? Come on you folks have got to be a little more mature than that. No one is really willing to do what it would take.
Don’t you people realize that if you were to advocate “That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security…”, you could be arrested for advocating and supporting treason?
Have you people lost your ever-loving minds? Don’t you know that September 11th, 2001 changed everything?
And though I know it has been happening thruout this adminstration, where anywhere in law does it state, that lawyers determine what the laws are or mean? Doesn’t the court do that and to be called before the Congress is something like being called to a grand jury…….where testimony is given but the courts determine an outcome?
Congress has not in any instance with this administration used its powers correctly and at this point seem to be in collusion in the damning of America.
BBBaaaaahhhhhhh be good sheeople and follow along!
Folks, the sad and simple truth that we have been overlooking in this discussion is that Pelosi, Reid and company took impeachment off the table because they really had no alternative. There is absolutely no way to get a resolution of impeachment through congress with the razor-thin majority that we gave them in the election of 2006. The remaining Republicans would never have allowed such a resolution to come to a vote.
WE didn’t give the Dems the necessary majority that would have been needed to end debate on such a contentious resolution. All that Pelosi and Reid did was to acknowledge the inevitable. The alternative would have been to accomplish nothing during the 2006-2008 period. Politics is the “art of the possible” and they were acknowledging the impossible, not advocating it.
History is rife with ironies. It will be one of the great puzzlements for future generations to ponder “why it was that President Clinton was tried for lying about extramarital sex, and President George W. Bush was NOT tried for crimes against humanity and for violating his oath of office at nearly every opportunity…not to mention raiding the national treasury for the benefit of his cronies. Absolutely amazing, that.
Stiv W :
Sorry for the late posting after 90+ posts but I have been saying that very thing for months now. If it hits at the truth it will NEVER be on any Israeli run american media network. OH Jon Daily may brush past it but at times he is CNN with a laugh track.
Cheney knew. Cheney came to office on the payroll of a company he personally would award billions in no-bid contracts to, starting before 9/11, yet no one in the media or congress raised an eyebrow. Cheney put himself in charge of “anti-terrorism” virtually upon entering office, and ignored every intelligence agencies’s concern with al-Qaeda because it was a Clinton idea. This ignorance and lack of action extended to the National Security Advisor, one Condoleeza Rice, who in sworn testimony declared she had never heard of al Qaeda until AFTER 9/11. In June 2001 Cheney placed himself in charge of NORAD for the purpose of “scrambling” USAF interceptors in case of aerial attack. Cheney authorized the war games which had most of NORAD in Canada on 9/11. These war games included simulations of airliners used as missiles to fly into buildings. After 9/11, Bush and Rice would say no one could have envisioned such a scenario. But Cheney had. Cheney knew.
Dick Cheney is the most criminal official ever to hold high office in the US government. He consistently has overridden the Constitution which he swore to uphold, and he is the most dangerous and most evil man on earth. That his pacemaker still functions is proof that there is not a just god. Terrorists are destroying our country from within, and their leader is Dick Cheney.
As has been said before, how do you call the cops on the cops?
In most other countries these people would’ve been physically dragged out of their offices and ‘put on display’ by now.
Ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated? We cheat ourselves.
My estimate that 98 percent of the US population would never see this article in the Guardian or reprinted on Common Dreams is based on the fact that there is a sizable ex-pat community abroad who are paying attention. That’s why they’ve left. But I agree with others who have advised me that this number is too optimistic. Call it 99 percent and I’m rounding down.
PERHAPS, . . . just PERHAPS . . . Mr. Cheney will have his scales balanced on another level. . . .
They’re allllllllllllllllllllllll big Christians, aren’t they??????????????
‘Wonder if this teflon attitude will prevail throughout eternity???????????
Who really cares at this point???
I think the white house, congress, and the supreme court all deserve the huge problems overwhelming them. There is already somebody under every rock in Washington and there is no where else to hide. The spot light caught them with their pants around their ankles. There is no one left to dump on except each other. This could result in the biggest mud ball fight in history. At time shortens and the pressure builds watch for unbridled aggressive insanity.
The power is with congress. Don’t fool yourself, they are not weak or cowardly, they are in favor of these policies. Bush is taking the heat but congress is making the moves. The power is also with the people. Don’t fool yourself, the people are not good, they are aggressive and selfish. Aggressive and selfish defines the American people. If you don’t believe it, watch televison: aggressive, violent, and glorifying success and the military. The people are no good and the congress represents them perfectly. The posters here are not the American people, and as much as I admire them, they (we) are ultimately irrelevant. The power is with the people and congress, not with the small number of progressives in this nation. Live with that.
BillBushnell April 29th, 2008 1:07 pm
“Wake up folks. We have lost our country to the corporate-government-media fascist cabal that runs things anyway they please. It is not Dumbya/Dickhead and their neocon henchpeople who are the real problem. WE THE PEOPLE ARE THE PROBLEM because we continue to elect them and the Nancy Pelosi’s and Harry Reid’s of the world.”
True, but what choice do we have when those they put up for election are part of the system? And if we do elect someone who is not corporate owned (can’t happen), what chance would they stand of getting anything done…or of living long?
We the People are the problem because we continue to support the system with our dollars, our sweat, and our lives.
We have to start refusing. Lizard may be right about many Americans, but we don’t have to be the many. Most big things started as small things. We are the ones we’ve been waiting for.
Stiv Whitman April 29th, 2008 12:03 pm
Sick stuff. 98% of the US population will never see this article. Or the story is chopped up and rehashed in a positive spin.
Dear Congressional Democrats: If you had any actual love, or even regard, for democracy (small “d”) you would have done something, anything, to put an end to Cheney, the American Stalin. In the current depressing and pathetic political environment words mean absolutely nothing. Only actions count. Your total lack of action means you are not mere moral and political cowards; you are, like the Republicans, enemies of democracy whose only real passion is power and the winning of elections - nothing more. Your attempts to transform yourselves into kid glove, tennis shoe Republicans have failed utterly. We no longer want the bread crumbs you toss us as if we nothing more than the family dog. There is no longer any mainstream opposition to the creeping tyranny that’s turning us into a nation no better than China or Zimbabwe. You people deserve to rot in Hell even more than the Republicans. When it all finally goes down here, you can repair to your condos and mansions in Park City, Utah or Vail, Colorado, drink the latest “hot” Merlot and count and recount all the pairs of shoes you own, like Imelda Marcos.
“Cheney Lawyer Claims Congress Has No Authority Over Vice-President”.
And guess what, Congress agrees … Pelosi, Reid, Obama, Hillary and all….
And the American Sheeple cheer on BillaryObama….
Fine. Let’s have an inquiry into Cheney’s activities and communications which are outside the scope of his office by virtue of the oath he took. Lining the pockets of his cronies or himself is not within the official duties of Vice President, nor is telling someone under his authority to commit a crime or other offense against his oath of office. Let’s just stick to those things now that his attorney (I am an attorney) has defined. That should just be fine. The office is not a blanket of immunity for the distinguished gentleman.
Oh my!
Just give me a minute to pack a bag.
Passport? Check! Toothbrush? Check! US Constitution? Nah, it’s shredded.
Hold that train!
Oh Canada! Love those Bluejays!
Two thousand years ago a Roman senator suggested that all slaves wear white armbands to better identify them. “No”, said a wiser senator. “If they see how many of them there are , they may revolt.”
It is very clear we have come to a crossroads. We have a choice to make.
We can choose Empire
OR
We can choose Earth Community.
We can choose to continue to be slaves to the Empire or we can choose to build on a new Earth Community.
If you choose Earth Community then let’s start by choosing a symbol that EVERYONE could easily obtain. Nothing fancy just something that anyone has in their drawer and can identify with the simplicity of Earth community.
Let’s start the revolution. The Bandana Revolution. Let us see how many of us there are.
A bandana is a simple easy symbol that can represent solidarity for Earth community and be used as a visible signal that you reject Empire.
Take a bandana and
Tie it on your car, your briefcase or your bag.
Wear it on your head, your neck or your arm.
Hang it in your house window, tie it to your mailbox.
The power of seeing others on the street who have the same beliefs, courage and desires to transform our world will be visible to all easily and quickly.
LIZARD,
You are spot on.
But first we need to know who is on our side, i.e. bandanas (those who are going to reject empire)
Then we start by “doing” things that are instrumental in challenging the Empire.
I love the idea of not buying anything the last day of the month. Can we get enough people to do it? I don’t know. Is it enough? Only to the moneyed structure once a month.
Technically I see no other way now except ……………yes, that’s right. I’ve come over to the dark side. Just like Cheney. Working in the shadows. I’ve stopped thinking that working within the system is somehow going to make a difference.
A new improved SDS society (Seniors for a Democratic Society). I just need some other people who are willing to be a little more radical than just holding hands and singing kumbaya.
You know what I mean?
In peace but with justice. No violence. Be inventive. Stay up nights dreaming of what two or three people can do. Forget large groups. What about using things like paint, ants, cockroaches, packing popcorn……can you think out of the box? What can you do with an ear of corn and 40cents to make a statement? Think, think, outside of the box. Put the fear of God in these white collar criminals using things that are harmless but things that can, if used, in inventive ways make a nonviolent statement to selected targets of empire.
Think about it. Lots of mini protest actions. All over the country. All different. All unexpected. Make it legal, make it nonviolent, but make it happen. Think outside the box.
KEM PATRICK,
Re. your ‘BIG WORD’, ‘SO’, and saying nothing else:
SO, Congress needs to [end] these damn military aggressions, as I already elaborated upon. Impeachment’s not required to do this; as I arleady explained my view that ending these crimes can be done without needing to attach this to impeachment as if there is no other way to stop these crimes.
Congress won’t do that, for it’s yet again adding more, very much more funding for these crimes, but Congress has the ability to end these military aggressions by refusing to authorise any more funding.
Not accepting to treat impeachment and ending these crimes as related, but still distinct issues is to be either blind, or else being of the mind to really not want these crimes to be curbed, which is to treat Iraqis, Afghans, and others as if they’re your sacrificial lambs, which they definitely are NOT. They are NOT to be treated as sacrificial lambs for anyone, including the rest of all of humanity.
A significant, if not large, majority of Iraqis want the U.S.A. et al OUT, gone, SO the USA [must] work on seeing to making this happen; as well as to provide financial assistance for Iraqi refugees who are in need, and reparations to Iraqis for the destruction caused with this military aggression that hasn’t ceased to be maintained yet.
SO, so simple; just need to see to making what needs to happen take place. Not simple to achieve with an extremely corrupt, despotic, rogue Congress; but it’s simple to realise what needs to be done and that it doesn’t take rocket scientist intelligence or knowledge to pressure Congress to do what it must do.
And when I speak of only Iraqis, I also have the same view with respect to Afghans, Haitians, and others, btw.
And, SO.
You, yes you, have not elected enough progressives to Congress to impeach anyone. You do not have enough power. Time to get to work.
If Cheney claims Congress has no authority of oversight, then he is not a Vice President and GWB is not a President. They are despots, attempting to impose authoritarian rule, wherein, as Nixon once put it, “if the President does it, it isn’t illegal.”
This said, I must say that the Democrats in Congress have been an unspeakable disappointment. They were explicitly elected to stop the war in Iraq and rein in the Bush “Administration.” They have done neither, and thus have made themselves accomplices in the ongoing Constitutional train wreck.
Recall the fall of the Soviet Union, or the British rule of India. When enough people simply refused to cooperate, the few could no longer rule the many. It is long past time we withdrew our support, implicit or explicit, of the dominant Washington paradigm.
- Yilmaz the Downwinder (http://home.roadrunner.com/~wxnil/)
If this country should ever reach the point where any man or group of men by force or threat of force could long defy the commands of our courts and Constitution, then no law will stand free from doubt, no judge would be sure of his writ, and no citizen would be safe from his neighbors.
John Fitzgerald Kennedy
30 September 1962
It’s obvious we have a dictatorship, folks. Their salary is paid for by us taxpayers, yet Bush, Cheney, Rice, et al love to rub our noses in ___________ (you fill in the blank).
Truce,
Your quote of Pres. JFK’s words sure make him seem to have possibly been really visionary, whether he realised his words would come to reflect actual reality in the USA, or not.
And I believe one or more considerably earlier presidents had spoken enough in similar terms. Perhaps one of them was one who promoted the right for every citizen to have weapons, or guns. Another, if not the same, spoke in terms of monetary control, and his words are used by people who want an either end to or reformation of the Federal Reserve. And yet another spoke of the need to make sure that a MIC, military-industrial complex situation does not form in the USA. But I think one, or more, also spoke in more similar terms to those of the quote that you provided of Pres. JFK.
They may not have all been presidents, but