Police Arrest Anti-War Protester, 80, At Mall
An 80-year-old church deacon was removed from the Smith Haven Mall yesterday in a wheelchair and arrested by police for refusing to remove a T-shirt protesting the Iraq War.
Police said that Don Zirkel, of Bethpage, was disturbing shoppers at the Lake Grove mall with his T-shirt, which had what they described as “graphic anti-war images.” Zirkel, a deacon at Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal in Wyandanch, said his shirt had the death tolls of American military personnel and Iraqis - 4,000 and 1 million - and the words “Dead” and “Enough.” The shirt also has three blotches resembling blood splatters.
Police said in a release last night that Zirkel was handing out anti-war pamphlets to mallgoers and that mall security told him to stop and turn his shirt inside out. Zirkel refused to turn his shirt inside out and wouldn’t leave, police said. Security placed him on “civilian arrest” and called police. When police arrived, Zirkel passively resisted attempts to bring him to a police car, the release said.
But Zirkel said he was sitting in the food court drinking coffee with his wife Marie, 77, and several others when police and mall security officers approached and demanded they remove their anti-war T-shirts.
The others complied, but Zirkel said he refused, and when he wouldn’t stand up to be removed and arrested, authorities brought over a wheelchair. “They forcibly picked me up and put me in the wheelchair,” said Zirkel, a deacon at one of the poorest Catholic parishes on Long Island, where a devastating fire recently destroyed the rectory and storage areas.
Zirkel was charged with criminal trespassing and resisting arrest. He was released on bail. A spokeswoman for mall owner Simon Property Group did not immediately return calls seeking comment.
Generally speaking, a mall has the right to control what happens on its property, said John McEntee, a Uniondale commercial litigation lawyer.
Activists with dueling opinions had gathered to support and oppose America’s five-year campaign.
As Zirkel was being wheeled to the police car, the crowd chanted “We shall not be moved!” Moments later, they moved; police and mall security had ordered them off the property. Many joined a larger anti-war crowd assembled by the mall’s entrance, off mall property, on Veterans Memorial Highway.
They were complemented nearby by protesters saying the Iraq war is vital for security.
Copyright © 2008, Newsday Inc.
Life in a police state; thanks to conservative political ideology. A lot like the “nipple,” the “tee-shirt” is also a big threat to America’s security. Perhaps they should cover the nipple with the tee-shirt; that way America won’t be so frightened.
“But Zirkel said he was sitting in the food court drinking coffee with his wife Marie, 77, and several others when police and mall security officers approached and demanded they remove their anti-war T-shirts.”
They should be glad they weren’t Tasered by Security, forcibly stripped of their tee-shirts, then arrested for ‘Indecent Exposure’ once the official Policia-arrived on-scene…[maybe during the next-Admin…as Kerry so obviously would have approved-of in FL…?].
“Don’t Taze me, Bro!!!!”
I guess it’s okay for war recruiters to hand out pro-war pamphlets but not for anti-war folks to hand out anti-war pamphlets. I guess freedom isn’t free.
Police and corporate state …. that’s how you get fascism.
yes, sad to see army recruitment spots on prime time tv, mulit-million dollar “recruitment centers” being built everywhere, even in towns of under 25,000 population, army recruiters on high school campuses, seeing recruiters driving star-spangled hummers along freeways in major cities. but try wearing the wrong clothing…
even sadder to see, here, only three posts on this article. perhaps the poor response here is due to the fact that the names of nader or clinton or obama were omitted.
Well, the GOOD news is, he was released on bail. _____ Wonder how long that benefit will still be in effect?
Okay all you non-Americans sitting in judgement of the American people. Do you get it? The Empire wants ALL under its thumb. There is no place on the planet to be free of these criminals - unless all Earth citizens unite. There is not a living creature that is not being or is to be - affected - unless we realize what we all share in common. America, at one time, under different leadership and different era, was able to rebuild other nations and be a hero. We cant seem to even save ourselves now, people. Every Earth citizen has the authority to speak truth to power. The more that do - the greater chance the human species has of continuing to exist. Let go of your disappointment in the American people. Do what you know you can do. Lead by example. We must all act to save us all. Peace on Earth.
Ths is an example of the greatest offense that can be committed in our society–not allowing “business as usual” is the number one sin one can commit against the disciples of Mammon.
So I see according to John McEntee, a Uniondale commercial litagation lawyer said, “GENERALLY speaking a mall has the right to control what happens on its property.”????? This includes the BILL OF RIGHTS, as in the FIRST, we still have that damn right, fascist scum. Litigation lawyer in Uniondale, must be a proud like guy.
Since when the hell does mall trump Constitution, apparently when we have bush et al roaming the halls of 1600.
Well, it’s only been on the site for a few minutes LINO and maybe some of the regulars are attending church services.____ Maybe not.
No email
Corporate Headquarters
Simon Property Group
225 West Washington St
Indianapolis, Indiana 46204
316-636-16oo
What a conundrum! These protesters were “disturbing shoppers” with their “graphic anti-war images” emblazoned on T-shirts…which were words “dead” and “enough” and numbers “4,000″ and “1 million.” The only other images, it would appear, were three blood splotches. I think someone’s confused. Graphic anti-war images would be peace signs, wouldn’t they? Would the shoppers have been as disturbed if, instead of being anti-war, the shirts with their blood splotches had been PRO-war?! Anybody up for trying it at the same mall? I’m curious what would happen. It’d be my bet that you wouldn’t be bothered by the “police” at all.
Get use to it slaves And be sure to keep thinking that this is all going to go away if only we choose the right decider.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4298137966377572665
It’s bipartisan Folks .You’ve all been had.
Unless you are supported candidates such as Gravel , Kucinich, Paul or any other non pro NAU, NWO, NAFTA ,CAFTA One World Communist Regime candidate your part of the problem and not part of the solution.
My hat is off to you Mr Zirkel
I see a civil rights violation charge in the Mall’s future …
Well, I guess it’s Gitmo for that guy.
lino - poor response could be that people are sleeping in. Here on the west coast it’s not yet 9:00.
Some day those people saying the war is vital for security might be awakened from their blissful sleep to the nightmare they’ve helped create. We can hope.
Was just watching another drum roll for our bombing Iran on Meet The Press. It’s pretty obvious why they’re so busy building those recruitment centers!
Seeing the time my first post has on it, I guess my rational for lack of response was wrong.
It seems recruiters may dispose themselves of you, as a parent, by way of YOUR personal email address and try to recruit your 17 yr old daughter.
I asked them how this was legal and where they obtained her info, she attended a Friends School at the time, I knew it wasn’t them, plus I hadn’t realized the age is 17. They would not tell me.
About 6 weeks ago I started going through every file I could open, cos of my carrier I can see the HELOs and Paths, then I found something called, ‘AOL Army or People and Army Connection’, I printed it, in order for this site to be accessed it appeared you had to type ‘no’, then it led to recruiters, the no was a dot matrix type printer graphic, no way.
Of course they use a GOV.LSTSERVE, then I see, 08, Murphy, my Rep. uses a Gov listserve but no way can they be the same, then I see the Army stuff has my old was good at the time password. I went to a local recruiter, said he doesn’t understand the helos and paths and stuff, I said I don’t either I just traced stuff over a year and it caught on logically. I asked, that being said is it legal for the Army or my Congressperson to swap personal info, re;GOV.LSTSERVE, He said Absolutely illegal. Have the file, they cringe everytime I walk in.
normally i would say obviously we arent getting the whole story, it sounds like he was up to more than wearing an offensive shirt. however, about a year ago i was at my local grocery, and there was an elderly “hippie” couple from Maine in an old Van (what else would they be driving) pasted with anti bush stickers over the back. the woman ran into the store leaving the man in the van in the loading zone. now this isnt being parked if someone is inside the vehicle. well some young thug (cop) came over to hassle the old man. demandng he move the van. (keep in mind that he isnt the only vehicle in the loading zone) well the old man was obviously incapable of driving and was probably running low on his faculties anyway, then as he was trying to drive the van the women came out and began intstructing the officer that he cant drive and was pretty angry in her reprimand of the officer, man did that officer hassle the living hell out of them and wrote them a few tickets. but my story doesnt stop there, as I drove by I simply asked the officer if he was proud of himself for picking on an elderly couple, lights went on siren blared and he was issuing me a ticket, when i asked what for he said you know what for. he gave me a ridiculous ticket for obstructed licence plate bracket which was thrown out, but the point being that these cops must be part of the stepford republicans. they must have been “spoken” to about anti bush civil disobedience.
your country is going straight to hell - human rights do not matter - military and property rights only matter.
Where private property serves as a public space, the rights to free speech and free assembly must not be abridged.
Nowadays, very few publicly-owned spaces are appropriate for promulgating messages beyond what the government and MSM echo. People gather in malls, indoors and out. How convenient for the corporate empire, who claim no obligation to permit free speech or free assembly.
When the time is right, this ingterpretation of the 1st amendment needs to be taken all the way to the Supremes.
Here in New Jersey we won a lawsuit years ago during the Nuclear Freeze Campaign which guaranteed groups right to have tables at the Mall.
However it was mostly a victory in name only - as soon as we tried to actually do tabling the Mall put up barrier
Boycott
Ah, America will sleep tonight, knowing that this dangerous 80 year old man and his anti-war t-shirt have been apprehended.
ORoe (10:47) “Since when the hell does mall trump Constitution,”
Since action under the Constitution, in this case, might interfere with the Higher Imperial Command of our monarch HRH George for Americans to “go shopping”. You know how death and blood and guilt can interfere with a really good shopping spree …
Why don’t we set up tee shirt stores and sell anti-war tee shirts in every consumer mall.
I hope the mall is boycotted. May their parking lot be empty.
I think we need a dancing clown at the entrance waving people in with a sign stating “consciousness free shopping” guaranteed.
And if those in the area were to boycott said mall would whomever came up with such an idea be arrested as an economic terrorist? And if this boycott was successful and even made the news, which side of the Constituion do you imagine the owners of the stores would be on? Another small opportunity and an easy way to make a statement, or do the people of the area just let this pass too? Maybe some one might post more than just the mall owners but all the store names?
Impeach and Prosecute Now
All those who have broken with the US Constitution….Executive, Legislative, and Judicial or you too may have to be careful what you wear and say
Well old Don Zirkel showed some guts. His crime is that he violated the corporate church, the mall. Zirkel offended the rights of consumers to spend in bliss, absent untidy political reality. Who wants to be reminded that the coins they spend are tainted with the blood of dead and dying Iraqi children, women, and men. The KBR built concentration camps are designed for just this type of dangerous criminal. Today the Mall is the front lines of the battle with American Fascism. It is there that the war will be won or lost. Stop consuming or recognize that you are Fascist sympathizer. Stop consuming and Fascism falls. Thanks Don.
Before there can be anything done, there is going to have to
be another “Kent State” Maybe then we’ll get off our fat
asses turn of the “big screen stupifying machine” and take to the streets like that 87 yr old did. How many of you
computer junkies would do what Mr. Zirkel did.
They have privatized our Main Streets and now claim the right to silence us!
Damn that! Speak out anyway, folks.
There still are a lot of folks who believe in our administration’s Iraq occupation. They don’t want Mr. Zirkel telling them they are wrong, and the shopkeepers don’t want him distracting the customers. There are also a lot of Iraq veterans and families of soldiers who REALLY don’t want to hear about it all being wrong. They aren’t all winter soldiers, and the criticism tears them up. It was an overreaction, but a shopping mall is technically private property, and the police didn’t do anything until they were called.
If he had been roughed up on the street and the police looked the other way, that would be a different story.
What happens if Mr. Zickel decides to take a vaction trip to Canada this summer? Will he find himself stopped at the border, like former army officer Anne Wright, because he is now on a list? That would be over the top.
And for all you flag-waving s.o.b.’s: You want people all over the world to die for this?
Tough on Terrorism! We beat the local octagenarians even if we can’t impose our will abroad. Will this arrest make it to court? Who will tell us what the outcome of this is? Are we doomed to a future of geriatric unrest? My, my.
Apparently without irony, John McEntee, a Uniondale commercial litigation lawyer, said “Generally speaking, a mall has the right to control what happens on its property”.
Since there are NO other public spaces where it is possible to speak in American cities other than public markets (malls) and the public rights of way, our freedom of speech under the constitution is abridged. Freedom of speech inherently includes the right to speak where a listener may be reached. Not in free speech zones, empty industrial zones, etc. We also have a right to the public airwaves, which have been monopolized by global media conglomerates.
The malls are *public commons*. They are deliberately constructed to achieve a critical mass of shoppers– that is a *commons*. It is the people in the mall who are the object of possession here–not the real estate.
Hey Old Hippy:
You’re right. He’s braver than me. I wouldn’t do what he did. I remember not being allowed in the local roller skating rink because my friends’ hair was too long.
Don’t count on another Kent State. The kids are all little businessman wannabes, and the Iraq war is just another franchised activity of the US government so far as they are concerned. A lot of them are voting for McCain because they like the way Republicans manage the economy! Ahhh!
In Aug 2004 I was told to leave the Barnes & Noble bookstore in Fairlawn OH for asking a question.
Jerome Corsi, coauthor of “Unfit for Command” about John Kerry, was at the B&N autographing his book. I went to the store, walked up to the table where he was sitting alone (I did not see the few people in line behind a tall shelf of books waiting for an autograph). I introduced myself, gave my name, & said “Mr Corsi I have been asking a question for a year now and have not rec’d an answer. Perhaps you can answer my question: Why is GWB fit to command?” Within seconds there were 2 tall men standing on either side of me (and 2 standing by Corsi who I swear to goddess had sweat beads on his upper lip and looked terrified) - a woman came up to me and said “unless you are buying Mr Corsi’s book you will have to leave the store.” (Not - “go to the coffee shop in the store” or “go to another part of the store” - no - she said LEAVE THE STORE.) She and the 2 tall men escorted me out of the store. In America.
I should have called the press. What on earth was I thinking? But I saw a demonstration outside by the road & being who I am … I went there, grabbed a sign and joined the protest against Corsi’s and his ilk.
I was kicked out of a Barnes & Noble Bookstore. In America. I’m 56 yrs old. This is what we were warned about about the Soviet Union when I was growing up.
Who cares about the war . . . this old guy was “disturbing shoppers” and we all know that shoppers must never be disturbed . . .
Common Dreams has all our emails and identities. It is time for Common Dreams to give us the opportunity to be in contact with each other. In a way, this website is a public commons. It is being run as a top-down information capture, like MoveON.org and eBay. Can’t we move at least partly towards being able to contact each other individually? Even YouTube and Rupert Murdoch’s MySpace allows that. Better yet, Common Dreams should allow *all* of us to select from among 30 to 50 special interests, and allow us to publish our identities within these subgroups, and communicate and organize some activities within our chosen subgroups.
“and try to recruit your 17 yr old daughter.”
To O roe
What better way to destroy American society and empire than to kill-off the next generation . If any seventeen-year-old son or daughter , hasn’t with parental help or by their own inquisitiveness figured out that the American Army is like the Roman Army , there to expand the empire and the powers of the “caesar-of-the-month” , Dem or Rep , then they deserve to be dim-witted but willing “pawns” for the “kings”.
I have a better idea that Gandhi and King would definitely approve of : Let your daughter sign up and then encourage her to desert and take her chances like Ehren Watada and Jonathan Hutto . Better yet , you , join the ranks of the grannies arrested for trying to enlist and then if they let you enlist , promptly quit.
Your actions are commendable but ignorable by white house , pentagon , ag , congress , justice department ( small case intended ). There is a single word that trumps all anti-war words however truthful and eloquent and you know that word : it’s Cheney’s “So”.
There are two words from combatants and three words from civilians that could trump “So” and they would be respectively “I quit” and “We support you”
Otherwise carry on your wishful thinking .
Yes, I think that would be a VERY effective response - Boycott that Mall. Freedom of speech doesn’t belong to just the recruiters and pro-war mongers. It’s events like these that tell the truth about where our countries morals are. Boycott that damn mall.
Way to go Mr. Zirkel!!!!
Believe me, I want to shove the truth of this war in the face of our lying political leaders.
Take a look at my video (originally banned by YouTube) in which I attempt to shatter the lies of Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-GA).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz7iliaJDiI
To see an unedited version go to my web site:
http://nukular-waste.tripod.com/nukular-waste.htm
Party ’till W pukes,
Oscar Lewis
“Freedom is another word for nothin’ left to loose”
Until WE americans get to that point of knowing this…that all of our “material gain” is worthless and meaningless when our freedoms are gone….WE will continue to close our eyes to the truth ( and jail people who want peace)….because WE fear loosing possessions more and WE deem them more valuable than freedom…
All of the other countries that speak out against Americans have had wars and reveolutions that have taken away possessions/lives/property and as a culture they understand that Freedom is much more important and they are willing to fight to the death for it….sadly Americans have not had this experience….yet….
Disgusting. An 80-year-old man arrested for wearing a T-shirt that hurt no one, yet Britney Spears — whose “words of wisdom” were to just believe in and support president Bush in everything he does — went around several times without underwear in public exposing her “private” parts. She never got arrested for that.
There’s no doubt the U.S. is a fascist police state.
In August 2004 I had to make a trip to Ohio. I had an old Taurus with transmission problems and I wasn’t even sure it would make it there and back (to Maine). I decided that if I had to go to the ever important Ohio I would make my feelings known. So I “sharpied” up the car. On both sides were the words (in beautiful calligraphy courtesy of my teenage artist daughter) Lick Bush (and Dick). On the hood was a giant Bush with the circle of No around it. On the back I put anti-war George Harrison lyrics. I wasn’t sure what I’d meet on the way. My informal poll was that a majority of motorists gave me the thumbs up and only two or three were negative. None were rude or threatening. A lot of people thought it was great (my relatives in Ohio didn’t want me to park the car anywhere near them). But I would NEVER do this now. No friggin’ way! Way too dangerous, I’m sure I’d end up tasered and in jail. We’re on the edge here in Amerika. If we get to the elections without martial law, I will breathe a lot easier, but I’m planning for the worst. I hope the man arrested fights this illegal fascist charge.
Trespassing? Ok, if and only if the mall bans all garments on which there are any kinds of images and symbols, so including with respect to political party affiliations. Else there’s no trespassing chargeable for people wearing anti-war t-shirts; particularly when the wars in question irrefutably are of aggression, the supreme international crime.
People living in the area of this mall, those who use it, that is, and who plan on boycotting the Olympics in China cannot do this without also boycotting use of this mall; and all others like this one, which is obviously ruled by fascists, etc. Otherwise, it’d be hypocritical to boycott the Olympics because of China’s human rights abuses.
“lino March 30th, 2008 10:43 am
…
even sadder to see, here, only three posts on this article.”
That’s awfully fanatical; it was still morning for MANY “Americans”, early morning, and on a Sunday. Time to grow up; or else be a schmuck!
“perhaps the poor response here is due to the fact that the names of nader or clinton or obama were omitted.”
And that’s awfully stupid.
barksnotbites posted stupidly too. When are “Americans” going to stop lying about U.S. history, and cease communicating stupidly, both?!
” O roe March 30th, 2008 10:47 am
So I see according to John McEntee, a Uniondale commercial litagation lawyer said, “GENERALLY speaking a mall has the right to control what happens on its property.”????? This includes the BILL OF RIGHTS, as in the FIRST, we still have that damn right, fascist scum.”
Fascist? Evidently, so yes. But the “thing” is that nothing was really happening. As Mr Zirkel explains, he and his friends were peacefully seated having coffee, which (I assume anyway, unless it’s stated in the article) is sold at the mall. Wearing these t-shirts they had does not constitute something happening, imo. After all, it’s not like the t-shirts jumped off of these people and attacked or harassed other mall goers; and neither did these t-shirt wearers take these off and throw them at anyone. The mall goers who are insanely offended by such t-shirts should instead be told that they need to seek psychiatric or psychological help.
And staying silent about crimes has recently enough become criminal under law in some parts of North America! Well, either a crime, or else some other offence punishable under law.
“Litigation lawyer in Uniondale, must be a proud like guy.
Since when the hell does mall trump Constitution, …”
The mall didn’t trump the Constitution, or nowhere as much as the police did anyway. After all, the police could have told these mall authorities that these peaceful, coffee-drinking, respectful, … activists weren’t bothering anyone, that their Constitutional rights were not being stretched, and so on. The police did not have to act as the mall authorities desired.
Anyway, and given that this story was published, local anti-war and rights activists can now boycott use of this mall, and the more who do, the merrier. It’d hopefully be enough to make a significant difference in terms of mall revenues.
The goon mall authorities and police exposed their … goon characters, while the peaceful and respectful activists come out like shining stars. Funny.
It doesn’t mention tasers….I wonder why they didn’t use a taser on him, oh, maybe they do not have their allotment yet. This is a good example of just how low we have become, squirming around in the muck like some prehistoric monsters. This is what other people see around the world, I doubt that they are anxious to adopt our way of life.
“Common Dreams has all our emails and identities. It is time for Common Dreams to give us the opportunity to be in contact with each other. In a way, this website is a public commons. It is being run as a top-down information capture, like MoveON.org and eBay. Can’t we move at least partly towards being able to contact each other individually” –toddboyle March 30th, 2008 12:27 pm
Absolutely. I’ve been thinking this for a long time. The site should have an internal message center, from one poster to another, who may reply or not. The original Smirking Chimp
had this feature. Perhaps that is why it was hobbled, in the interest of division and disunity.
The need for this feature is so obvious that CD should feel obligated to address the issue.
Ghawar ,
You seem to be speaking of the PM feature that some, if not all, discussion forum websites provide. I found it to be convenient, and CD should be able to provide this; I believe with little trouble or work to do.
Just cannot wait until Blackwater gets the no-bid Department of Homeland Mall Security contract and starts “accidentally” shooting them damn elderly ‘Mekin-hatin AARP Osama lovers.
Funny, the rent-a-cops are right there when some old coot dares to exercise his (former) right of free expression, but when a locked-and-loaded nut strolls through the front entrance, there’s half-a-dozen dead before anyone even sees a so-called “security guard.”
Britney Spears is an emotional wreck.
Poster girl for the rest of the chimp’s supporters.
I get the feeling, that all those concentration camps are not going to be empty much longer.
I better check and see how many are being built here in Canada.
People become actively involved in protest activities to bring attention to their cause. It seems like this was a perfect day for Mr. Zirkel. He was the focus of the mall security which brought out the rage of those around him. Then the police show up and and make a bigger spectacle out
of nothing and produce even more attention to the stupidity of the narrow minds that protect us. Then it hits the news and now Mr. Zirkel is our hero for the day. All in all I’d say he had a very good day.
barksnotbites: YES
At the tail end of this stream of comments, I wonder- do y’all read these? And then what? Is there some archive of commentary that saves all of our valuable insights for posterity? I mean it is nice to read that others see things like I do, makes me feel like less of a freak in the world. But seriously, how many people are reading these articles, and then how many comment and then how many read the comments?
There are like 200 of us in the country. What I think is so disturbing is that all of us have to go deep into the internet to communicate with people and get news. And news is so important- the accuracy and availability of news directly corresponds to the level of ignorance out there. Willfully or no, the majority of folks simply don’t have the information. They do not realize what is going on around them. The other folks at the mall probly didn’t even notice what was happening and avoided it if they did. By the way, WTF were doing in a mall anyway?! Malls are like have-a-heart traps for Americans.
One last thing, it really doesn’t help to call each other stupid. It reinforces fear to smack people down, and fear is something we must reject here in the land of the free.
The above request for creating a real-world connection and commons for free and direct exchange of ideas, is a superior IDEA, whose time is come.
Namaste
Chimps are worthy of respect, humans -like George w Bush are not. But I guess when it is so embarrassing to be human the most “human” response is to slander other species.
The way to fight pro war protesters:
taunt them into joining the military
ask why they arent letting homeless vets into their houses.
Support the troops!
J. Edgar Hoover’s version of the 1st Amendment is alive and well in Amerikan Mauls
Mr. Zirkel apparently failed to read the signs posted at the mall entrances:
This is just another example of the ancient and dishonorable tradition of law enforcement eagerly, even slavishly, rushing to defend the interests of property owners and profiteers against the Rights of Man incorporated into the Bill of Rights (written, paradoxically enough, by the now-extinct class of exceptionally visionary and open-minded property owners and profiteers).
They might as well have charged him for “aggravated mopery”; even distributing anti-war literature is not as manifestly intrusive and offensive as cosmetic counter salespersons spraying cologne onto innocent bystanders. (In all fairness, this obnoxious practice seems to have died– but from natural causes, not because the police busted these nuisances.)
On a tangential note, it’s regrettable that even CD headline writers indulge in another time-honored pathology of print media: composing deliberately sensational and inaccurate headlines which are manifestly belied by the actual copy.
ANTI-WAR SHIRT GETS MAN, 80, PULLED FROM WHEELCHAIR, ARRESTED
Some person had to have deliberately distorted and falsified the report when writing this headline, to make it sound as if the victim were wheelchair-bound, and was “pulled from” a wheelchair in order to effect the arrest. (The headline implied that this was something similar to that Florida sheriff’s deputy who literally dumped, or threw, a suspect out of his wheelchair.) According to the story, the cops actually brought a wheelchair to transport the deacon when he refused to cooperate and come along with the cops.
Needless to say, I applaud the courageous actions of the protestor, and I find this kind of petty, bullying abuse of authority reprehensible. But I don’t see that it helps to tart up the reality in a sensational headline. That’s so… FOX, so… CNN.
Sounds more and more like we are becoming a fascist society. I am 76; where do I get such a t-shirt?
hmm. maybe i should disguise myself should i decide to go see “stop loss” at my local mall theatre
I only have two questions for you in the US.
Did this story make the main news networks, and will it make the mainstream press?
I think it would in the UK, and outrage would be the result.
If there is no response to this, then there is little hope of improvement.
I think we’d get a lot further if we spent less time cursing mall security, the media and the police state/neo-con/fascist mind set, and spent more time applauding the courage of Mr. Zirkel and figuring out how everyone of us can take actions like his.
The response to any evil is not rhetoric, it is resistance and action. It’s when people are scared or otherwise unwilling to take the risks and make the sacrifices that Mr. Zirkel has that the enemies of freedom have won.
People interested in nonviolent action to oppose the war might consider looking up groups like the National Campaign for Nonviolent Resistance, Voices for Creative Nonviolence and No War No Warming.
oh im sure it will. with the exception of some sort of alleged ties to al-Qaeda being investigated.
I suspect a person wearing a shirt saying “God Damn America” also would be incarcerated.
BOYCOTT SMITH HAVEN MALL!!!
Everyone in the area should get together and pick a day to go to the mall. Get together and pick a time for each group member to walk in the mall office, one at a time, and “inquire” if your attire meets their unpublished dress code. Then walk out without buying anything. Can you imagine them being interrupted every other minute all day long over this thing?
Of course, you couldn’t walk in as a group because then they would know right away that it was coordinated…they’d probably arrest the whole group at once.
Heh, heh
BNK
Greetings fellow Earthlings,
Today I will admit and probably not to the suprise of many readers here, that I am a product of the California public school system. With three years in Catholic school which did help my grammar quite a bit. I dont know how I exactly lied about American history in my post. I am willing to examine how I might have expressed myself better. Apologies for my offense to those sensitive ones.
I applaud the protester and his t-shirt. These kinds of things were no big deal just a few years ago. The point I intended to make it that fascism is alive and well. Whether some are aware of it or not doesnt change the reality. The reality is also affecting every living thing on this planet, therefore every citizen on this planet has the authority to speak up about what is going on.
Each person needs to do what they can, no matter what corner of the Earth you find yourself in. I am disappointed every day in my fellow Americans. For some reason this only strengthens my sense of how things should be.
Kelmer, my apologies to the chimps.
AndyUK
” Did this story make the main news networks, and will it make the mainstream press?”
I did an oline search and it appears to appeared on several local online editions. 177 comments on Topix out of Deer Park, NY.
http://www.topix.net/forum/city/deer-park-ny/TESJL1FFL7C1H6B07#comments
Here is the first comment. I cut and pasted it for you:
“I’m sick of people in wheelchairs who think that they have more rights than normal people. “
The longer I live here, the more I think about moving to Canada.
charged with criminal trespassing… a mall has the right to control what happens on its property
You can see where the beast is going with this idea. It will try to privatize city streets and sidewalks next. The sheeple will consent/conform to secure their lives from the aliens beyond the battlements. Winner take all so fall in line and toe the line in the land of the free, home of the brave.
The legal basis for this is that the t shirt topic disturbs the shopping environment. In order to defeat this you need to bring attention to ANY t shirt topic. Claim it interferes with your shopping.
Or, if the mall does support constitutional rights in any way then they cannot violate one particular right. When cities zone property couldn’t they require free speech on it? Or if they give the company a tax break to build the mall site couldn’t they, in exchange, say, if you want to shirk your tax payment responsibilities then you’ve got to allow free speech.
At any rate, something has to be done about this because we have lost the public square, one of the only places to communicate with public that either doesn’t care about the issues or is confused by corporate propaganda on the public airwaves that corporations broadcast on for free.
Re: O roe (10:53)
For those interested in protesting or pressuring Simon Property Group over this matter, the attached link has a Simon Properties mall locator.
http://www.simon.com/findamall/
Money talks! Especially in this economy.
Bless you Mr. Zirkel! Too bad more clergy, especially the bishops, don’t share your point of view and have the courage to speak it - those who do show great courage in opposing the too cozy relationship between the church and this administration. (Ever heard them criticize Alberto the Torturer, or Antonin the Hangman?)
Got Metta?
http://www.simon.com/mall/directory.aspx?ID=103
The stores in this mall need to hear from the public how customers expect to be treated OR learn that these same customers will not patronize the stores there. Each store on this directory should be sent an email protesting the treatment of this person. Plain and simple - respect our rights or suffer from our right to choose to shop elsewhere!
A local print shop could assist the cause by selling t-shirts that show our constitution with blood spilled on it and superimposed with a picture of Don Zirkel and the words:
End the war,
Not our rights!
I’m told that concourses in shopping malls were defined as “public spaces” for purposes of exercising first amendment rights of free speech -by a fairly recent California Supreme Court decision. Provided that business owner access/egress interests and safety and obscenity regulations are not violated, the exercise of free speech in shopping malls may not be otherwise restrained on the basis on content.
Apparently, the US Supreme Court has also dealt with this issue and come to similar though more ‘flexible’ conclusions.
If the facts in the Zirkel matter are reported accurately in the article, Mr. Zirkel may have grounds for a lawsuit.
I recall that, as a youngster, I signed numerous petitions for workers’ rights and decent salaries circulated by the Communist Party; later I also joined a union led by a female communist, for non-unionized workers like me who were messengers, “janitors,” elevator operators, etc.; I also attended the City College of New York where I joined groups formed in the cafeteria discussing Marxism, and other political and philosophical issues–often instead of attending classes; and, most impressive, I stopped often on street corners to hear speakers rave against the undemocratic democracy we lived in. Those experiences were liberatingly educational, not because I agreed with everything I heard, but because I felt challenged to think, to know, to act consciously and conscientiously as a growing citizen in a free country. Unfortunately that time has passed, the contract between government and inhabitant, that makes the government equal to that of the person, so that the person becomes a citizen equal to the government has been vetoed by the current administration. What do we, no longer citizens, but inhabitants without rights, without a contract/constitution, what do we do? Is any act of ours subject to the power/judgment of the government alone? With no court to hear us? No impartial judge to decide? Not even a few passersby in a mall? What do we do when the government alone decides who we are and what we mean? My answer must be kept private, for I know what can happen when a government has access even to our thoughts, and especially to our ideas–and what about our actions?
This is a disgrace. An elderly man with guts who cares about people dying in Iraq is treated like that?
Why don’t the police go after some real criminals and stop wasting their time with good people.
I hope that mall goes the way of a lot of malls these days and closes down. It would serve them right.
I would also like one of those T-shirts!
UncleTim, 59-year-old paraplegic
“Security placed him on “civilian arrest””
This is new to me. I’ve heard of citizen’s arrest which can only be done in case of a felony. Doesn’t seem to me that Don Zirkel committed a felony. Have times changed? Am I wrong? Or does Don Zirkel have a chance of getting some security guards imprisoned for false imprisonment.
What else did you expect? That’s fascism for you.
Don Zirkel took a stance with a symbol that is controversial to many. I hope he realized to do so in a public place might invoke hostility or worse, or maybe cheers. That is the essence of civil disobedience. I am sure he was not just going out for a Sunday stroll and happened to pick the first tee shirt in the clean clothes drawer. I applaud him for it. When a person speaks the truth, it is good. We all need to think of the consequences, whether it is from some individual nut case or armed police. He may have been tasered and died from the shock. Every one of us should think of this when we make this type of statement, and not be surprised by the hostility encountered, and make plans for escape, protection, or bail. I remember Chicago in 1968, my friends and I where driving down the street and gave the peace sign to a passing police car. Wrong thing to do, we got a ticket for ‘not giving the proper signal at a turn’. Thinking back on it, we should have given the middle finger instead of the V sign. We used to be able to have our day in court as a last resort as protection of our individual rights. The courts are corrupted now, one of my great fears for this country. Corporations now have greater ‘rights’ then we the people. The shame. My wife and I have already started a ‘no buy stuff’ way of life. Maybe that is the way to go for many individuals who feel powerless otherwise.
Peace.
Don and Marie Zirkel were arrested for a political crime. Both Haliburton and Himmler have made places like Dachau for such people. This is just another “Defining Moment” for our American government and it’s christian zealots.
Long Island…of course, my birthplace…it doesn’t surprise me. It is a Republican/conservative haven aside from a sprinkling of a few hippie throwbacks here and there who own road side organic farm stands on the north shore.
While visiting family there, I participated in a peace protest, which turned pretty nasty. Never experienced anything like it. Kudos to Zirkel for being so bold! I am sure if Zirkel had passed out pro-war and pro-Bush pamphlets while wearing a T-shirt that read: “STILL STANDING TALL” — I doubt he would have been arrested or harassed. There are so many lemmings out there - it’s hard to penetrate the masses. It is amazing that the pro-war stance is still going strong on Long Island despite the fact that this war is an obvious flat-out failure all around! Yes, the poisionous candy has not yet gone sour among Long Island’s Hickvillites, Carle Placers, Westburians, Huntingtonians, Levittowners, Mineolites…Let’s not forget the south shore: Long Beachers, Free Porters, and the list can go on.
Once a Tory always a Tory! “God save the King!”
As an Australian, my thoughts are with the long-suffering people of America. How much longer are you guys and gals going to tolerate this nonsense which is served up to you by your politicians? Enough is enough! The Pigs have run the Farm for too long already!
If an 80 year old man can become an activist then everyone can. They can’t arrest 300 million people.
On my blog I’m suggesting that all nations withdraw support from the ruling cabal in America. That way the world might help you to reclaim your democracy. Have courage. You have lots of sympathizers.
www.dangerouscreation.com
Sick! The heel of a boot is now the just and normalized response for what was once an exercise of First Amendment right. A civil society? Give me a break. I am so ashamed of what this country has become. Disgusting, vile and so, so stupid — with spineless, selfish leaders who really embody dumber than dumb.
David, you are correct. They can’t arrest 300 million people. HOWEVER….The 20 million assholes we have in this country CAN arrest the other 280 million. Especially if the 280 million majority sit on their arses and do nothing about it.
Oh come on, the guy brought facts into a no-fact zone. You let them get away with wearing tee-shirts with war statistics and pretty soon they’ll be sitting in front of the mall drug store in shirts saying “Those pills will not help you lose weight.” They’ll be in front of the Dollar Store with tee-shirts proclaiming “Political prisoners made these goods.”
It’s got to be stopped before it gets out of hand.
To me it is interesting that a man wearing an anti-illegal occupation shirt gets arrested because shoppers find it offensive, yet there are STORES in malls that SELL shirts with messages ranging from OBSCENE to ultra-patriotic. Just an observation.
KEM Patrick and wilmoor, i stand corrected. i’m used to seeing daily articles show up way after 11amcst. i thought the article was a day old. excuse my lack of caffeine.
mike corbel, as intended, the mere mention of the words nader, clinton or obama wakes up the name callers. good job. please accept my apology for not attaining a ride on your intellectual wavelength. or for that matter, for not even trying.
Ya, and did you hear that he actually bought that shirt at Spencer Gifts in the same mall. Ironic, ain’t it?
“They were complemented nearby by protesters saying the Iraq war is vital for security.”
This is the main thing I picked up from the article. Keeping, or projecting for the first time, the human cost of the crusade is important, but also important is breaking the vast mind set of fear that has been cultivated within the Union.
Never Forget 9/11! Never forget that Bush/Cheney manipulated with lies your grief, anger and sorrow over 9/11 for political and personal gain: this is betrayal.
Never Forget 9/11! Never forget that Bush/Cheney used the blood of US Troops and the gold of the US Treasury to move Halliburton’s headqurters to Dubai: this is treason.
Impeach Bush/Cheney! Protect The Troops!
Impeach Bush/Cheney! Protect The Union!
Learn to fight and run away, live to fight another day…(Bob Marley)…if they didn’t want to get arrested they shouldn’t have gotten arrested, if they wanted to then good…the mall and the sports world are two good targets; the recruitment pressure during these sporting events on TV is amazing.
80 years old, wouldn’t take off his shirt in public. Hooray! Hooray for Don Zirkel!
Also of note, in Albany at least a year ago, someone was thrown out of a mall for wearing a T-shirt that they bought at the very same mall.
People probably shouldn’t get the idea that this is in any way fun. Or profitable for their favorite organizations.
Must be that acid rain in the New York state water supply. O wow, man, I’m on acid rain!
Wait until all our highways are sold off to private firms and we are pulled over for having an antiwar bumper sticker…
And, of course, there is Blackwater — a private company not answerable to the law or the public.
And free speech in private schools: Forget about it!
Privatization is about more than money.
I’ll say it one more time. If American citizens want liberty, freedom, democracy, and a restoration of accountability in the government, then the time to shut the country down is fast approaching, otherwise, the situation will deteriorate further until martial law is imposed. Unless We The People prefer docility and servitude to the ruling class and a return to feudalism. If that is the case, why waste time complaining on the internet? The tyrants in power love this kind of protest.
Time for the General Strike! Everybody! Blue-collar, white-collar, no -collar, skilled, un-skilled, professional, retired, unemployed, part-timers, farmers, etc.
Can someone describe the T-shirt or post a picture of it somewhere? I want one. I think we should all start wearing anti-war T-shirts when shopping.
By the way, I was confronted by guards on two different occasions for handing out anti-war literature, once in a mall and once on a downtown sidewalk. I told them that their rules did not trump the Constituion and they would have to arrest me. They didn’t. Being minimum wage employees with no dog in the fight, most of the time they will back down.
You know I don’t really care if it is illegal to protest in the Cathedrals of Consumerism. I do care about the killing in this illegal war. And at this point, being retired, I would be honored to be arrested.
But for the sake of those who have kids at home and jobs, etc., what are the legal limits on our freedom of speech that can be imposed by mall landlords?
This arrest warrants a boycott. This mall is a few miles from Stonybrook College. I hope students there will troop down to the mall wearing T-shirts against war, against harming animals, and other graphic t-shirts that will disturb the universe of those who wish to shop unperturbed — and then not spend any $$$.
Don - you are wonderful.
this is a shitty country now. a police state now. shut this country down. if you dare. the pigs are out of control.
unfortunately, you people aren’t going to do anything except complain and whine on commondreams.
don’t you get tired of whining.
I saw a “T” shirt for sale in a Mall’s store last week that had a black bear’s paw and below that in large red lettering it read.
“Eat shit or die
Mother-Fu##er”.
I can understnd the mall owners wishing protestors of ANY issue to be kept away from the store entrances, or inside the Mall or any store, and have the right to demand that. But to demand anyone remove their “T” shirt because it was contrary to their opinions is wrong. If I happen to disapprove of writing on a T shirt, I can ignore it, ___ so may anyone else.
What if police forces start stopping vehicles that have anti-war bumper stickers and demanding their removal, and if not the driver and or pasengers are subject to arrest??? That’s the same thing as this idiotic “T” shirt caper in my mind.
I don’t think of it as “whining” ~PAPERCUT~. I see it as sharing opinions, which may be productive. It’s a large group of world citizens having a discussion. On some issues it is a learning process, as we share information.
I see you took the time to post your opinion, which I don’t entirely agree with, but it’s your opinion and we all have them. What are you doing productive about your complaints, ____ besides blogging here?
For those of you who want to demonstrate at that mall, why not go shirtless? In body paint write on your bare chest: “I WAS WEARING A DON ZIRKEL SHIRT BUT THEY MADE ME TAKE IT OFF.” That should fetch some press.
Don Zirkel is a hero. Maybe it makes more sense tactically for all of us to wear arm bands, pins, etc. Things that can easily be removed, so we can avoid arrest, relocate and then get back to spreading the needed information.
For those who want to be able to contact each other, and try to get better organized, I highly recommend you join:
http://www.zcommunications.org/
The new website managed by the folks who bring you Z Magazine.
Check out ZNet and ZSpace. Everything you want is here. Common dreams does an excellent job of aggregating the news we are all interested, Z takes this to the next level.
Check it out, become a Z sustainer. It’s worth it.
barksnotbitsw - I did a google search using Anti-war protester …, and first on sites that came up was CD and this thread.
Were I living in the area I would try to get dozens of friends and neighbors wearing anti-war t-shirts to wander the mall at the same time. If we are going to be arrested we need to be as visible as possible. Inform the local news tv, radio and newspapers of the event. The more we are seen, the more others will be morally outraged and join us. This gentleman just may be able to get a lot of support from his church, it would be really good to see 50 do the same thing next week and keep at it.
Este es como vivir en una Banana Republic. Y que? ahora nuestro pais, EEUU, es una banana republica. Mamma mia, que pendejos.
Positions needed Immediately: Full-Time Constitutional Lawyers from coast to coast
It is not illegal to hold up signs outside the property (with of course legal aide volunteers overseeing every move) the signs should say Smithhaven Mall violates our constitution-BOYCOTT
Many people here are mistakenly referring to the man as wearing the t-shirt and having his first-amendment rights violated “in public”. He was not in public.
Shopping malls are private property. While one has their first amendment rights in a shopping mall, the mall owner has the right to press trespassing charges against the anyone for pretty much anything at all (except the handful of things in the Civil Rights Act), including simply expressing political views the mall owner dislikes.
So, the old man freely exercised his First Amendment rights, and the mall owner freely exercised his private property rights - arguably the more important right under the rules of Capitalism.
So the real question is why have we allowed so much of our communities to be “privatized” into “shopping malls” (awful places for lots of other reasons) - where no public spaces exist for for peaceful assembly or any other form of public discourse. What public space left is public highways - for DOT and state-licensed wheeled objects moving at some minimum speed only - not people. This denial of public spaces - in the form of main streets, sidewalks, plazas and squares, and parks - are the real tragedy of suburbanization.
So, as far as I’m concerned, we should boycott not only the malls, but suburbia altogether. Nearly a thousand of us had no trouble exercising our free-speech rights in Pittsburgh yesterday. But there aren’t even spaces where such assembly activity is even possible in, places with names like “Southpointe” or “Robinson Towne Center”.
Sometimes I get tired of the whining myself, but I’m much more into trying to come up with some ideas. That’s what I like to do and hopefully someone could run with it (like ezeflyer did with my idea back on July 4 of last year of starting a corporation called “We the People” — by the way ezeflyer, in case you are reading this, what I wish you would do is come up with a broad outline of your idea, which was way beyond anything I had thought of, getting into as much detail as you can, and then enter it into Wikipedia. That way, if I want to tell someone about this idea (which I have done a few times already) I can say, if you want to know more about it just look it up on Wikipedia (it would be even better if there was a way you could say ‘just google -whatever-’ but I have googled ‘We the people’ and so many things come up that that way of finding it isn’t going to be too helpful). You see, in that way, if this is an idea that is just waiting to burst into public consciousness, it really might if you planted that kind of seed in Wikipedia.)
But anyway my idea here for your consideration: The powers-that-be have these lists, they’re like black-lists you know so if you do something they don’t like, then when you want to travel on the airlines you get picked on. What if we, Progressives of America or this We the People corporation or just an organization, set up a list of malls, corporations, whatever that has gotten on OUR black-list. Someone would need to put up some kind of software on their web site, where you could add to a list of black-listed institutions, and then maybe it could have a space to write in why they have been so designated, and maybe then you could have a place for a list of names who have signed up to boycott this establishment or corporation or store or whatever (of course it would be even better if we could ASSUME that all members of this organization would support all the designated boycotts, but I guess that’s being unrealistic). So once again, as with the ‘We the People’ corporation idea, we would be fighting fire with fire. Then after something like this happens, where this guy is thrown out for wearing a T-shirt, we could go to this web page https://www.simon.com/mall/feedback.aspx?ID=103 and leave a message such as “Dear Sir, our organization ‘We the People’ which represents X millions of American shoppers, have placed you on our ‘do not shop here’ list due to your draconian and fascist dress code. In one year we will try your shopping mall again with one of our testing agents, to see if you have improved your stance as a truely democratic institution of this supposed democratic country interested in upholding the first amendment of this country’s constitution, the right to the free exercise of speech. Sincerely, official spokesperson for ‘We the People’”. Could something like this work? If (admittedly BIG ‘if’) this idea could catch on and get a lot of publicity, just the knowledge of this by people such as the people responsible for throwing this guy out at the Lake Grove Mall would make them think twice about doing something like this in the future.
Thank you atelios and others for the ideas. I left a message on the mall feedback site.
If there is some kind of a message board created on CD, please have an opt out option. I crave the community of Common Dreams but fear I already spend too much time living in cyberspace and listening to the mostly harmonious choir. Need more time to interact with flesh and blood people who do not necessarily see things my way. Keeps you on your toes.
In the last 2 weeks.
Catholic deacon - anti war protester (this post)
Pope- baptizes Muslim at Easter mass
Catholic Church applauds during Jeremiah Wright speech
The above demonizes Catholics at home to many on the right.
The following demonizes Catholics to Muslims
Our man Bin Laden issus some tape (wink) and accuses Pope of leading Crusades, threatens attacks over cartoons that came from the Dutch (they ain’t Catholic, but never mind, to Muslims maybe we are all the same like Shia and Sunni Muslims are the same to most Christians).
Then there was the very interesting news several months ago about Tony Blair, a pro-abortion advocate who is responsible for Britains involvement in Iraq, and he is allowed to convert to Catholicism.
Added to together, something smells bad here. Maybe they are planning an attack on Catholics, at home by the right, in Europe by Islamic terrorists (or blamed on them).
perhaps if he rented space and time - Money after all is speech according to the extreme court.
The headline should be, “Fascist Pigs Harass Old Man, Gestapo Kidnaps, Collects Ransom”
== How to Maul the First Amendment at Shopping Malls, Farmers Markets,
and Even along Public Sidewalks ==
Thank you, Common Dreams (and Deacon Don), for sharing this travesty with us.
It reminds me of the day, many months ago, when waifllc.org’s founding
volunteer Alan McConnell and I got thrown out by “security” at Arlington,
Va.’s Pentagon City Mall. Our “crime”: standing quietly at the food
court during lunchtime, offering IMPEACH HIM lapel buttons for a dollar
apiece to passersby.
Now, with this latest T-shirt caper, I suppose that we might indeed get
arrested for simply WEARING one of those celebrated buttons on our coat
or shirt. Which reminds me: some time ago, a political candidate in the
kommonfilth of Virginia got arrested for daring to station himself at a
shopping mall with his campaign literature. The ACLU’s affiliate in
Richmond took on this case, but I’m not sure how it finally panned out.
How much more oppression from the “authorities” are we in for as the
Amerikan Empire both expands and implodes under its own weight? –
Larry W. Bryant ( http://www.bushbusiness.com/Bryant_OP.htm )
For my own near-arrest in Hampton, Va., on July 15, 2007, see the
youtube.com clip at: http://tinyurl.com/3at8mz ;
And for Alan’s actual arrest in Kensington, Md., on July 21, 2007,
see the youtube.com clip at: http://tinyurl.com/ytt576
America, land of the free. As long as you don’t upset the shoppers.
On the flip side, you don’t hear much about folks being harrassed by Moonies, Lyndon Lerouchies and Hari Hari krishna… any more!
Forgot. The Moonies are living next door to the Bushes in Paraguay now.
WORKER
thanks for the link. briefly looked at it. if it’s good for pilger, monbiot, chomsky it’s good for me……………..
UNCLE TIM
you brought tears to my eyes………..
Another example of people who were offended by a truth they do not want face.The don’t go to a mall see reality, they go to buy illusion.
we aren’t getting the whole story here. Did the police arrest them at the request of the property owners or did the police act on their own?
but again, like I have said before, learn to pick the fights properly people.
a mall is private property, period. You can be asked to leave if the owner wants you to leave, just like I can ask or make a kkk member get out of my front yard, but I can’t make him leave the street or town square.
still, kudos to those people for standing up for themselves!
Good stuff. I try not to let it make me angry anymore, because I know nothing will be done. A few articles will be written, a bunch of comments will be left, he may even speak about it in church. And then, we will move on.
http://www.ryanhartman.wordpress.com
Ah! yes I remember it well in the 1930s Germany. I’m only 79 in a year or two I can be arrested too for wearing my Impeach Cheney cap. Time to burn the books and start rounding up the Muslims.
I’ll be wearing my “BUSH LIED…THOUSANDS DIED ” shirt (illegal in Florida) to my local county courthouse tomorrow (Suwannee County) to apply for a passport…This should be interesting.
Apparently, arrests are now reserved for people who protest mass-murder, rather than those who commit mass-murder. It’s a pitiful state of affairs.
I was at the Smithhaven Mall protest on Saturday with my 12 year old daughter. While the main part of the protest took place on public property outside the mall, several of us all wearing the shirt Mr. Zirkel wore, walked around the mall for about half an hour. Then we converged in the center of the Mall and began reading the names of dead soldiers out loud. Almost immediately we were surrounded by Mall security and county Police telling us that if we didn’t disperse we would be arrested. We continued to read for about 20 minutes as security seemed unable to make up their minds to start arresting. Because I had my daughter with me, we left when the police and security outnumbered the protesters.
I wasn’t a witness to Mr. Zirkel’s arrest, but ironically, the food court where he was sitting is about 20 feet from one of those kiosks that sell unbelievably offensive and vulgar t-shirts. How our t-shirts could be described as graphically disturbing is beyond me. However, they were factual about a subject that we are supposed to pretend doesn’t exist. How frightening it is that we have reached the point where simply stating the facts about the war is unpatriotic and worthy of arrest.
I agree with the reader who said we should wear pro-war t-shirts with blood spatters and see how security reacts.
I see that the inaccurate headline about which I complained in my previous post (see above) has been fixed. I appreciate it.
I don’t flatter myself that my comment brought about this correction, but I thank the Common Dreams editors for removing the distorted and inaccurate headline.
Remember: Malls are private property. They control speech on their grounds. But also remember you do not have to shop at these private Malls - let them control the speech of the speechless -
There was a second shot heard ’round the world. It was on 2001.09.11. It was when the CFR began their coup on our nation and Constitution. The Neocons are murdering everyday; many of us are still just trying to get the majority of us to truly realize what is happening!
pistonbroke March 31st, 2008 8:00 am
“Ah! yes I remember it well in the 1930s Germany. I’m only 79 in a year or two I can be arrested too for wearing my Impeach Cheney cap. Time to burn the books and start rounding up the Muslims.”
Good analogy, pistonbroke.
It really does get down to the notion of fascism, doesn’t it? While the malls may be private, they have taken over more of our once public spaces. More land in the hands of private/corporate entities means less land in OUR hands, which means we have fewer places to voice our opinions.
The notion of public space has been diminished to few and select areas. I’d say that right here in cyberspace is the last frontier for free speech in the US and we’d better guard it as best we can. Also, if organizations like CD made it as easy as possible for its members to communicate and share information, that would go a long way to improving discourse and keeping fascism at bay.
WILLY BILL
well, they’ll know all about it now. so they’ll be closed…………
Andy in UK…
Nothing anti-war much makes the media here.
They don’t want to disturb the public with the “vision and reports of the truth” about the war.
I can’t believe they are bombing Basra…oh…yes I can. How stupid the stratigists are…don’t they realize if that our military happened to be shut down there, surrounded…it would cut our supply lines…it could be a Custer’s last stand…a massacre. And the right wonders why people protest this war…it is dangerous for both sides…us and the Iraqi we illegally invaded.
As to fascism….we have become a fascist country, and the takeover is moving at a faster rate. People had rather shop and go to Starbucks than defend their country against a hostile, internal takeover.
I suggest a counter-complaint….Get about 50 people strategically located in the mall….and complain about Brittany Tshirts, sports Tshirts, etc., fair is fair….
If I see a UCLA Tshirt, I can be properly offended, since I like University of Tex….
Where can we buy the t-shirt?
Let’s all buy the shirt and go to the local mall….
Malls must have a T-shirt cops….it will boost the economy by providing a job to someone…..rolls eyes.
To me the key point is that “Don Zirkel…was disturbing shoppers”, perhaps, the ultimate crime in the American dystopia and closely related to that other heinous offense of “driving too slowly” (and thereby slowing down the traffic to the mall). What’s really and truly disturbing is all those shoppers were unnerved by a public display of a message of peace while most of them aren’t troubled at all by the virtual disappearance of the children of Iraq. Depressing stuff.
There are some court rulings that say that the walking around areas of malls are public space similar to downtown in days of yore. I go with those.
Why should a mall landlord be able to add his or own layers of restrictions to how and where I can exercise free speech, or wardrobe choices, that are otherwise protected or permitted by law?
We do not have to automatically defer to other private citizens’ attempts to rein in our freedoms. Who do they think they are?
Be difficult.
First let me state that I have no affiliation whatsoever with this person or organization, but I
think the ‘banned’ tee-shirts linked below should be sold in every mall. There is some controversy - which the proprietor seems to explain.
Draw your own conclusions I guess:
The main site is here: http://carryabigsticker.com/
go to item #8 in the left hand column.
A picture of the shirt is here: http://carryabigsticker.com/images/bush_lied_front_nov06_big.gif
Why should they have had to remove their shirts or turn them inside-out?! Freedom of speech…like it or not…it is a right to be exercised! We should boycott that mall for their gross violation of this most important constitutional right!
Next time somebody is going to do some passive activism of this type, be sure to have a camcorder along. It would be valuable to catch the fascists on video and make sure it is made VERY public.
JohnR: In a desperate attempt at some humour here, in light of such a serious subject, there could be a whole new lot of laws drafted - in addition to the heinous crime of “disturbing shoppers”, we could also have “unlawful interruption of television viewing”, or “failure to shop at WalMart once a week”.
Just reading this article has scared me, because I think that you over there in the US are very much deeper in the messy stuff than I ever imagined possible.
You should be having T shirts printed with a selected number of topics, and persuade everyone you know to wear them shopping on a given day.
I totally agree with David Grayling, that the US deserve a period in the wilderness, shunned by other nations, until they learn to behave. Take away the power of veto at the UN, because the US cannot be trusted to use the power wisely. This is a very dangerous situation for the World to be in, and it can only be sorted out by the American people.
The Smith Haven mall is part of the Simon Malls chain of over 350 malls in the US and worldwide. Please let your friends here and abroad know about this issue and send them this link.
Boycott Simon Malls
http://www.simon.com/findamall/
Come on! Didn’t you suckers know that the constitution does not apply on business property?! Once you are on business property, you have NO rights except the right to shop till you drop and keep the wealthy rich. Our government NEEDS business in order for it to STAY in business, so you don’t count if you are not with the program. Some time back I went shopping for food at a local store late at night because it was too hot in the daytime. The guard was an off duty policeman who also had a gun. As I walked passed him, I said hi and he immediately stopped me and started questioning me. I ended it with, “Wow. I say hi and I am an immediate suspect” and turned around and walked off.
Well it’s clear that we’re headed toward a one world government. The doller in declining for collaspe and our elected officals would rather see the working class family suffer than step in and help us. kinda like KATRINA remember that!Did you know that congress signed a bill for the President under the Rico Act. That if you say anything against the government you are a combatant against the country in the war on terror.
The NAFTA TREATY is the first step in eliminating your Constitutional Rights as we know them today!We think that our government will never let this happen well they are . They are so corrupted they can’t turn back for fear of going to prison. There is a 9 min. documentary called “North America Union V Chip The Truth”. type in just that and watch this video. All the canidates that are running for President are either for or have said they will continue the present course . A One World Order will be the platform from which the Anti-Christ will rule the world Prior to the second coming of Jesus. That is why there is more and more control over us to get to
no cobatancy!Bless you , Stay Prayed up !!!!
world