Falwell and Me

Is Falwell's passing an omen for more enlightened days to come? Will our past liberal and educated minds become energized now with the will to battle ignorance and oppression? I do not wish pain for others loss, but the Falwells in our midst have done more harm than good and have led so many down the wrong path using scripture to distort our Bill of Rights. However, we still have the muslim fanatics to contend with.

Gandhi-schmandi :-)

Read Derrick Jensen's Endgame Vol II - Resistance for a good analysis of why Gandhi is wrong for our little struggle here. He advocated peaceful protest saying "There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall—Think of it, ALWAYS." Great, but essentially untrue. Many tyrants fall becuase they grow old and die - in itself a natural violence. In all societies in the west tyrants persist even through death becauses of the supserstructure which they either created or which was in place already and they ruled through. The success of the Indian independnce movement was not acheived solely through the passive resistance of Gandhi - it came at the end of a century of violent resistance. Jensen's argument is essentially: Gandhi, yeah great in his time, but we are talking about the destruction of the whole planet here so let's stop fannying around and take meausres to destroy the destroyers. Gandhi's solutions are now playing entirely into the hands of the oppressors.

"Whatev! I got a grave to go dance on."

:) :) :)

What would Gandhi say?

Sorry Earthian, I didn't go beyond the first word of your post

Whatev! I got a grave to go dance on.

Annac21 wrote to me:

"There is a difference between victims and perpetrators.
They don't deserve the same treatment.
Giving the perpetrators the same respect as the victims
means abuse and exploitation of the latter.

Why are you promoting this?"

Gandhi's idea was not to fight those who oppressed the weak but to convert them. He followed the tradition laid out by Tolstoy in his book "The Kingdom of God is Within You." And Gandhi was influenced by Jesus as was Tolstoy. If we differentiate between the "behavior" of those who harm others (or those with whom we disagree) and their "identity" we can respect "the person" and condemn and actively oppose "the action" and simultaneously protect victims and maintain *our own* actions to be consistent with values such as kindness and compassion. In the Gandhi movie, when Gandhi got his meeting with the British oppressor (the Raj) he said something like "In spite of our differences, how can we respect one another as men?" I believe Gandhi was the greatest progressive leader of the 20th century. It is one thing to say to or about Falwell or anyone we oppose, "You did X which is harmful and immoral, and so you are a _______!!!" and fill in the profanity or negative label. It is quite another to say "You did X which is harmful and immoral, and so I think you may be too good of a person somewhere in there to continue to behave so badly and to cause so much harm." The former guarantees vigorous opposition and an escalation of the conflict. The latter *has some chance* to persuade--if not the person being opposed, then perhaps witnesses on the fence. We should protect victims. But progressives cannot be progressives and right a wrong with another wrong. In the victim-oppressor-rescuer triangle, a good rescuer must respect the humanity of both--but not the illegal or immoral actions of the oppressor. That is, at least, my answer. Jeff Cohen himself violated this distinction when he referred at the end to Falwell and those with views such as him as "factually-challenged rightwing bigots." It is better (and more progressive) to say "those who preach factually-challenged rightwing views." It all gets to motive: Do we want to convert or hurt? Do we want to protect those suffering from violence or oppression or escalate violence or oppression into a continuing cycle?

Well, there are human tragedies:

Katrina, for example, dying in the street, Walter Read etc.

Can I suggest Thom Hartman and particularly those who are trying to distort, falsify history even before this bastard is buried buzz off.

I'm a nonbeliever and am sure Jerry Falwell will not be meeting a supernatural being beyond the stratosphere to give him everlasting life. It's too bad, but you can't be disappointed if you are just dead.

He sure seemed like a force of negativity. He appealed to the worst human impulses and shrouded them in the name of righteousness. Frightening.

In my opinion he perpetuated the systematic abuse of children. If his family didn't see that then, gee, I am all sad for them, but tough luck. At least he is not perpetuating that any more. If me calling him an ass is a hate crime I apologise, and presumably I should add Hitler was a misunderstood sparkly princess, and I also take back everything I said about Mussolini and Jeffrey Dahmer too.

It is always tragic when someone passes away - no matter how the person chose to conduct their life. Dr. Falwell was someone's husband, father, uncle, etc. However, I would have to disagree with those who claim that pointing out Falwell's shortcomings shows a lack of compassion. Wasn't it he who believed that pointing out the shortcoming of GLBT people as the unforgivable sin was to his mind an act of compassion? These posts are merely sharing some examples of the fact that Falwell was not a nice guy to everyone. He also had the inability to utilize his reasoning capailities to the detriment of those whom he considered sub-human, those unworthy of love from anyone - even from God. Dr. Falwell believed this and one should never forget his cruelty.

Every Christian on Earth should be a fan of Jerry Falwell - seriously. After all, he represented model Christian behavior for all to see. Let's face it, most Christians thought it was ok when Falwell used the GLBT community as a scapegoat for all the problems in the world and for Christians worldwide; while in truth, the exact opposite has always taken place and continues to do so. Of course, Christians in general condone this realizing that Falwell was right in that putting down the GLBT community, while ensuring their sub-human status, is THE Christian virtue.

Ok, Earthian,

There is a difference between victims and perpetrators.
They don't deserve the same treatment.
Giving the perpetrators the same respect as the victims
means abuse and exploitation of the latter.

Why are you promoting this?

CommonDreams is "the home of the progressive community" the masthead says. Progressives oppose hate-speech, don't we? I'm very happy several comments above reflect the ideal that progressives should not engage in that which we oppose. We can refrain from lowering ourselves to the situation and have integrity or we can wallow in hatred, abuse and name-calling. I like Gandhi's statement (a great progressive leader to be sure) that we should not engage in any tactic or action that we would not want to be used on us. Reference to Thom Hartmann opposing the statements of Rev. Falwell but not disrespecting the person--having "compassion for a life"--is consistent with Gandhi's progressive ideal. And that is the essence of the ideal inherent in the Golden Rule--a core ideal of many religions and non-religious philosophies. If the progressive worldview and the American progressive citizenry is to expand and grow, along with our policies, it won't be due to engaging in negativity but due to behaving in accordance with our ideals, which, of course, include compassion. I have high respect for the commentors above that refrain from name-calling.

If we do not understand how so many people who start off meaning good get led into the mess we are in now; analyze them.

They start with a base of frustrated, fed up people, and push the buttons of hatred and revenge. They feed the flames by telling you how much your enemy hates you. Now you are fuming, but you see them as a leader and you start believing lies. It gets hard to differentiate what's true and what's not because you believe in the leader instead of your own judgment.

Now you are prime for button pushing, and they can convince you that not only your enemy has it in for you but also anyone that supports your enemy can easily be added to the list of enemies.

All I am saying is LEARN HOW IT'S DONE!

Let's look at the problem square in the face. Farwell may not have turned to be what he became if those who followed him were not so dumb. What's his name, this guy who keeps healing people on TV? He pushes a crippled woman smack on the floor, and after that the woman starts walking perfectly and is healed. Bunch of bull, right? But you should have seen how the place was packed with sheeple. Don't be so happy that Falwell kicked the bucket. It will not be the last of Falwells so long as there is a good supply of idiots in the world. And boy, I tell you, the U.S has an unfairly large number of them compared to other countries.

To paraphrase what DodgerDave said above and put a different twist on it, Falwell was a media creation and a media creature -- the creature may well have swallowed up the man.

The man is dead, though, and, for him, the night will be as long as it is for all of us and I wish no ill towards the memory those who were close to him may cherish.

The media creature was a compleat azzhole, though.

gwmRNpozSC:
Pretty powerful stuff. I have this to say, and you're getting this from an atheist so you can take it with a grain of salt. (But I've sworn to be respectful of people's faith.) Religious groups, however benevolent their credo, are human groups and hence suffer from the attractions and succor of power. It's the same everywhere. Why are some police officers (often the young ones) completely overcome with newfound direct power over the individuals they encounter? Why are some doctors, those we trust with the intimate details of our lives, obnoxious, arrogant and often cruel? It takes a while to realize, but realization does come eventually, that "maturity" and "station" or "status" often do not come to a person simultaneously, no matter how lofty. Unfortunately it is often the people who could rely most on that maturity that suffer the most.
I wish you the best.

From my teen years, exposed to preachers LIKE Falwell....

One bragged about how many ex-Baptists he had in his church.

Another preached that people who "speak in tongues" are "demon possessed" while selling JIMMY SWAGGART records in his "Christian" bookstore.

One preached that "inter-racial" marriages are a sin in God's eyes, and of course he ONLY referred to black & white, never any other races.

Another told me that IF blacks DID come to their church that "they would have to sit in the back."

Another actually preached that wearing a wedding band was sin, and all jewelry and make up was, too.

Another, where I was NEVER a member, by now in my early 20's, told me that I had to ask THEIR CHURCH ELDERS to PRAY and that the ELDERS would tell me what God's Will was for me about whether I should trade in my car, or not.

Another, very much like this, that had preached that all women were subject to their husbands in God's eyes, even if the husband was not a Christian, and that if that husband ordered the (Christian) wife to commit adultery that she HAD TO DO IT.

THAT one, there were MAJORE FIREWORKS, when we left THEM.

They sent TWO of their ELDERS over, who tried to intimidate us, and BELLOWED at us, "God will NOT bless this action you are takin!" as they waved their fingers at my parents.

I was in the kitchen, nearby, in shock about all of it.

One of them turned on me. "I SEE you there LURKING in there! I'm ORDERING you to GET IN HERE NOW!"

Sure enough, still in shock, my feet began to move. I was 15.

Mother spoke, with FURY. "You STAY RIGHT THERE!" and I backed up VERY quickly.

He turned on her, stilL BELLOWING, SNARLING, and waving his finger at my parents. To my mother, he RAGED, "I'm ORDERING you to BE QUIET!"

Now, my mama was a very gracious woman, but she had a good deal of conviction, determination, and backbone, too.

"Not in MY house, you don't!" she shot back.

He was VERY quiet.

All of this took me YEARS and YEARS and YEARS to BEGIN to recover from.

I'm 49 now, and still, sometimes, it haunts me.

He is in God's hands, and I wish him no ill, but Fallwell was NO different.

Personally, I liked this website better before it opened up for all these comments. I heard this quote by someone that says, " Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one," and this is mine. On the other hand I guess it is good to have a place where we can rant and rave and get out our anger and frustrations but we also need to give back some thing positive. Where are our common dreams?

I was not going to comment out of respect for Rev.Falwell's family, and the reality that he was basically just another media created celebrity the public is led to believe it knows. Then, I was reminded by that same media of some of the lurid stuff this man actually said. Looking back over his public statements one is led to the conclusion that nobody can tempt the devil as skillfully as a religious zealot.

RIP, Rev.Falwell.

Falwell made you ashamed at times to admit to being a Christian and he had a way of making his bigotry acceptable to many people. I do not believe he will be missed by many as lacked compassion and kind words for anyone not like him. He will now be judged by Christ.

A little compassion is in order. He's now aware of the gravity of what he has done. God forgive him. AAR's Thom Hartmann had some kind words -- not of Falwell's policies -- but of compassion for a life that took the wrong turn. When ego takes over, a person who may have meant well in the beginning truly screws up. And now Falwell knows. God forgive him. (The other thing Hartmann stressed was how spirituality is preferred to religiousity. Check the third hour of his 05-16-07 show.)

Auberon - that is a very good point. On the other hand, it is too much fun: Falwell was a fat ass bigot.

I should say that above when I criticise Falwell and his ilk for being pervs I am not condemning perversion. I have a lot of time for the kinky and the bizarre - oh boy do i! - but I cannot stand the hypocrisy of the fundamentalist right who all turn out to be having illicit sex in forms that they condemn for everyone else, while forcing women to have back street abortions, driving young people to suicide because of their sexuality, and saying that innocent people die because they are sinful.

I thought everybody here wanted to end the war!

I think too many people here just want revenge. All I see for us is a future of chaos, and we will never get everybody on the same page; it's pretty depressing to me.

You are doing the same thing Farwell did to others, it doesn't matter "who is the better person" judging others, leads to blindness of what we want to accomplish.

Say good-bye to the Christians being on your side, you just polarized things and trashed any understanding.

You could say I'm secular, I believe in the Great Spirit that I see in nature, the universe and in us. I see where religions are trying to go and the truths they portray. We should follow no person as though they are perfect.

I you want to fix the world, each and every one of us holds a key to the puzzle. Until we understand Jerry Farwell, with all his faults; AND HOW HE GOT THAT WAY; we will repeat the same mistake in ourselves. That's just common logic; nothing to do with religion!

Maybe bringing hypocrisy to light was his purpose on earth; you are to understand it; or you will repeat the same mistake in a way that you are blind to.

Someone started to quote people, I'll continue.
Below is Hitchens:
"The empty life of this ugly little charlatan proves only one thing: that you can get away with the most extraordinary offenses to morality and to truth in this country if you will just get yourself called Reverend."

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/05/16/hitchens-slams-falwells-life/

What's truly scary is when someone (whether in real life or on TV or on the Internet or even - yes - on this site) feels they they, and only they, know "The Truth" about something. I do not mourn Falwell one bit, but some of the self-righteous criticisms of the man seem remarkably similar to the hate-filled ignorance he spewed.

Be better than he was. Rise above his small-mindedness. Prove your quality by BEING of better quality.

andrew.herman
Your old man sounds as fucked up in the head as mine. It's scary that there are people who don't know what the hell they're saying and I see a common denominator in all of them: they really believe anything on the TV is fact. They have no critical thinking skills. They swallow everything whole without chewing.

But I've never cut him any slack. Someone has to hold him responsible and correct his ways.

CeeCee_Em - You read it here on the internet so I think you can repeat it as a fact. If he wasn't some kind of perv then he is the only teleevangelist who wasn't and the more extreme the christian the more likely they were harbouring all kinds of ungodly ideas.

andrewr,

Oh. I was just trying to keep my facts straight - thought you knew something specific.

Merle,

I had to look up "zealot" to be sure I knew what you meant - my dictionary says "a fervent and even militant proponent of something."

Do you want to amend your statement "every time a zealot dies it's a good thing" to "conservative zealot" or "religious zealot"... or did you mean to include a good chunk of the people who post on this site?

Another one bites the dust. Every time a zealot dies it's a good thing. When an influential zealot bites the dust, I remember that at least evil people can die. Often, their own general unhealthiness manifests itself physically, like with Falwell's fatness or Reagan's dementia. Karma should've kicked this guy's ass harder.

Maybe Falwell in his own sick way meant no harm?
I won't miss Falwell any more than the rest of you, but...

My dad says really borderline evil stuff about the people he misunderstands all of the time. I have heard my dear old dad say things pretty close to the following: MUSLIMS ARE EVIL, gays have a genetic disease, blacks are lazy, Chinese are godless machines, and the Japs are corrupt.

I know my dad is not an evil person, but he sounds like it sometimes. My dad volunteers and helps charities and usually has a good heart for a conservative.

I think Falwell was ignorant and judgemental. Not a good pair of characteristics for a religious leader, is it?

He made a pile of money pretending to be good. It's the easiest thing in the world to declare your own piety and reverence, especially if you're dishonest and unprincipled. Public professions of faith should always be suspect.

Ding dong the witch is dead, which old witch? the wicked witch!!! Ding dong the wicked witch is DEAD!
No offense to the wiccans and good witches out there, it just had to be said. And it's so fun as well.
If ever there was a serpent in the garden he was it!
I almost forgot, Long live Tinky Winky!!!

Who cares? He's dead and he can't sue me.

andrewr,
Falwell was a pedophile?

The airtime given to hatemongers like Falwell and his secular cohorts like Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter tells you a lot about the state of popular American culture. I remember a time when people like this would be considered part of a lunatic fringe. Now they have real political credibility and power. This country has sunk deeper into a theocratic fascist stupor than I ever could have imagined.

Fat Ass Jerry Falwell... Ignorant bigot... It will be good not to hear his fat ass pontificting on his brand of fear. See ya later, and I don't care if the door does hit you in your big fat ass...

Thank God that this fat hypocrite has transtitioned from his fleshly prison and ascended to God's Cosmic Court of Justice to have his heart and intentions weighed in the balance of truth! I don't believe in hell, but if I did, I am certain that "fat boy" today is roasting on the devil's spit being slowly basted with the republican blarney of his own choosing. I seems to me that if he was a bible believing fanatic he would have called for the elders of the church and been anointed with oil as the bible instructs believers to do. Better yet, why did'nt he just call his old friend benny hinn to heal him. benny hinn heals people on t.v. all the time!! Then too, all the comment he made about the evils of science and how science was of the devil and how scientist were wrong on global warming, yet when it came to him and his health he took his fat behind straight to the doctor. If memory serves me right, medicine is a branch of science!

Falwell dead? I guess jesus needed another fat pedophilic pastor...

This was exactly my point.
Someone here had a huge fight with Buddhists, and I think this person was right.
This country doesn't need now Buddha, Confucius, and all other
"pacifiers," dead or alive, Gods, semi-gods, or mere humans
and their pacifying followers.
Not well educated in history people like listening to "peace, and love" and similarly beautiful words, and like repeating them, unable to judge correctly the consequences.

Jerry's God promised that how we each choose to judge others, so shall we each be judged by Him. I wonder how effectively Jerry will be able to throw Bible verses into God's great face to support his actions during his life on earth? It's quite sad, all in all, at least within the context of this clouded and limited perception that is our understanding of existence.

Perhaps we are all wrong and the great Creator (God, Allah, Buddha, however you define IT) is a TRULY compassionate, loving and forgiving being capable of the tenderest of mercies. Perhaps He will most ably and lovingly show Jerry the error of his lifes ways. And maybe Jerry will actually understand and find remorse in the depth of his soul.

We can only hope. For if one such as Jerry can be forgiven by our Creator, then we can all dare to hope that we ourselves will also be treated with such love when each of us inevitably shuffles off this mortal coil. What sight would it be, at the time of each of our deaths, to find Jerry in the great reception line apologizing sincerely to us as we pass into the next plane of existence? I can only hope it is so.

I am painfully guilty of despising Jerry and of taking some small pleasure in his passing. Hindsight has brought to me only internal shame and embarassment for it. Did Jerry act in a manner contradictory to my personal beliefs, my heart-felt notion of what it is to be a good person? Yes. Did Jerry seem to me a hypocrite and misguided man? Yes. But what position do I or anyone else stand in, fallible humans all, that gives us the right to judge him? None. Should we contemplate Jerry's life and draw what conclusions we can? Of course we should. The question is what to do with such knowledge once gleaned.

If Jerry Falwell did nothing more in his life than to cause us each to examine our lives by comparison and thus make us better neighbors, brothers, partners and parents then was his still a wrongful and wasted life? I believe not. But that's me and my belief. Of course, I also subscribe to the philosophy of "to each their own", so I offer no suggestions to anyone else in this regard. I only hope and pray that inevitably a greater good will come from such a life as Jerry Falwell's.

Peace be unto all mankind and know that we each are deeply loved. Loved by friends, by family, by unsuspecting people at the periphery of life and also by the grand Creator who imbued into each of us a piece of It's divine awareness.

I pray that with each day of waking we all will more often than not be given over to the better angels of our human existence.

Be peaceful and peaceful will you be.

Ahuramazda,

You wrote: Let's face it, most Christians thought it was ok when Falwell used the GLBT community as a scapegoat for all the problems in the world and for Christians worldwide; while in truth, the exact opposite has always taken place and continues to do so. Of course, Christians in general condone this realizing that Falwell was right in that putting down the GLBT community, while ensuring their sub-human status, is THE Christian virtue.

I say: Ach! I'm sorry if that has been your experience of Christians, but that is a gross overstatement and stereotype. Why bash all for the actions of some?

"Earthian is right. Accentuate the positive."

Where's Orwell when we need him?

I am pretty sure, he would love "accentuate the positive" and ... the rest.

"If it makes you feel better, you can drive some of the far right people NUTS when you tell them that YOU will PRAY for THEM and ask God to forgive THEM for their hate-speech and anti-gay, anti-women activities. Then do so."

Am I missing something? Why would a normal progressive do that? I thought the progressives are too busy dealing with
health care, education, labor and similar issues to play games with the right wing people. Ah, and occasionally to fight an alien "contrabanda" agenda.

Earthian is right. Accentuate the positive. Granted, however good-intentioned he may have been (presumably) at the beginning of his carrer, there isn't much positive to emphasize in much of Falwell's later hatred-filled actions. But Thom Hartmann emphasized this as the tragedy of Falwell's life. Falwell allowed his ego to overcome the central Christian message of love. "By their love ye shall know them." Falwell forgot the Golden Rule to love God first and your neighbor as yourself [EVERYONE being our neighbors]. I would hope liberals / progressives would try to rise about returning the hate. Not easy but we have to learn what Falwell perhaps now knows, it is NOT them and us, it is only US. As Rodney King said, "Why can't we all just get along." Perhaps it sounds Goody Two-Shoes but do we want to the Left's version of Falwell? I hope not.

If it makes you feel better, you can drive some of the far right people NUTS when you tell them that YOU will PRAY for THEM and ask God to forgive THEM for their hate-speech and anti-gay, anti-women activities. Then do so.

With the corporate monopolies in total control of the airwaves, it seems highly unlikely that any "news" group will consider using anything approaching the more balanced coverage from the "Fairness Doctrine" era (removed by R.Reagan).

Now we have the internet...the only way to really convey the progressive voice. At least for a brief moment...

The issue of whether the internet THAT WE ALL PAID FOR will be SOLD to PRIVATE interests is a major issue that is being buried by the avalanche of incompetency and corruption news from the Bush administration.

While many aren't watching or participating in active citizenship, AT&T has, not so quietly, been campaigning to BUY the internet so that we can all experience THEIR VERSION of "free speech." Political trips and contributions abound for our elected ones.

They've even gone to unions and tried to sell them on the idea that they'll be taking care of them with a lot of jobs!!! Amazing that anyone could believe that one.

The issue is called "net neutrality." Possibly mis-named because it does not fully convey the issues involved. We're talking about open access to the internet, unfettered by the corporate masters who control all of the so-called "news" from the other media sources.

Get on board and fight for it. It's the only way left to get uncensored information in our country..
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