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TechnoratiUS Economic Myths Bite the Dust
This month my CEPR colleagues John Schmitt and Nathan Lane showed that the United States is not the nation of small businesses that it is regularly dressed up to be for electoral campaign speeches and editorials. If we look at what percentage of our overall labour force is self-employed, or what percentage of manufacturing workers or high-tech workers are employed in small businesses – well, the US ranks at or near the bottom among high-income countries.
As economist Paul Krugman noted after reading the study: "One more American myth bites the dust." Indeed it has. And as both the authors of the paper and Krugman note, there is a plausible explanation for the US's low score in the small business contest: our lack of national health insurance. There are enough risks associated with choosing to start a business over being an employee, but the Europeans don't have to worry that they will go bankrupt for lack of health insurance.
A number of other alleged advantages of America's "economic dynamism" are also mythical. Most people think that there is more economic mobility in America than in Europe. Guess again. We're also near the bottom of rich countries in this category, for example as measured by the percentage of low-income households that escape from this status each year.
The idea that the US is more "internationally competitive" has been without economic foundation for decades, as measured by the most obvious indicator: our trade deficit, which peaked at 6% of GDP in 2006. (It has fallen sharply from its peak during this recession but will rebound strongly when the economy recovers).
And of course the idea that our less regulated, more "market-friendly" financial system was more innovative and efficient – widely held by our leading experts and policy-makers such as Alan Greenspan, until recently – collapsed along with our $8tn housing bubble.
On the other hand, most Americans pay a high price for the institutional arrangements that bring us these mythical successes. We have the dubious honour of being the only "no-vacation nation", ie no legally required paid time off and of course some weeks fewer actual days off per year than our European counterparts enjoy. We have a broken healthcare system that costs about twice as much per capita as that of our peer nations and delivers worse outcomes, as measured by life expectancy and infant mortality. We are near the top in terms of inequality among high-income countries and at the bottom for parental leave policies and paid sick days. The list is a long one.
Yet it was just two years ago that Nicholas Sarkozy successfully won the presidency of France by arguing that the French could not afford their welfare state and had to adopt a series of reforms that would make the French economy more "dynamic" like that of the US. These included tax cuts for the rich and labour law changes that would make it easier for employers to fire people.
Many French are now sorry they voted for this guy and very glad that they have more protection than most Americans have from the ravages of the recession. Of course they could also use a larger economic stimulus, but the fact that they don't have one is due to the neoliberal policies of their own government and those of the European Union, especially the European Central Bank.
There is another area where the comparison between the American and European model has serious implications for the future of the planet: climate change. "Old Europe" uses about half as much energy per capita as the US does. A big part of this difference is because Europeans, in recent decades, have taken much more of their productivity gains in the form of increased leisure time, rather than working the same (or longer) hours in order to consume more.
We estimated that the US would consume about 20% less energy if it had the work hours of the EU-15. This would have a significant impact on world carbon emissions. Furthermore, when the world economy recovers, there are a number of middle-income countries that will approach high-income status in the not-too-distant future (South Korea and Taiwan are already there). Whether they choose the American or the European model will have an even bigger impact on global climate change.
The major media in both Europe and the United States have played an important role, for decades, in helping politicians capitalise on economic mythology to push policy in economic and socially destructive directions on both sides of the Atlantic. It remains to be seen how much the Great Recession will influence the thinking and reporting of these influential institutions.
97 Comments so far
Show Allhttp://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/29/medicare-flashback/
someone mentioned,
"reaganomics"?
here is one for you:
"Flashback: Republicans Opposed Medicare in 1960's By Warning Of Rationing, 'Socialized medicine'
by: Igor Volsky/think progress.org
And maybe you do work in a factory, but because you want to, because you like the work. Because you aren't in debt and have reserves you can quit today. You work for a wage because you enjoy what you do, but you aren't a wage slave. This makes you 'rich' - you aren't trapped and you aren't owned.
Another way to look at the concept of being 'rich' is having enough capital, money and/or assets, where you own ALL of your time, where you can live a nice life, either humble or extravagant, without every having to perform labor for money. You manage your assets and control your spending to the point where it is all in balance. You have what you need and it is enough, and your time is your own.
Wow,
Mighty post Mr. Horton. And so true. But the "Task Masters" of which Samuel Adams warned us about in 1765 are not going to be able to fathom it. They demand in the Fortune 500 Fortress that you give up weekends and holidays so that you can be a slave to a pile of crumby sticks and plaster (your home) or some really crappy inefficient automobiles that marketing says you must buy.
And to pay for that "status" you invariably will be entombed in a Transglobal Monopoly from hell, where the workers are not viewed as assets, but rather pesky cost centers to be eliminated. Your free time is zero, therefore, you are paying that mortgage for no reason at all since you are never there. In reality, you are dirt poor and the odds of your family disintegrating are high.
Heckofajob Railroad Robber Barons!
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
"Rich", to me, means that you don't have to go to work every day. That you aren't a wage slave. That you have leisure time on a daily or weekly basis. Your time is your own. You may work for a living but you aren't punching a clock for a rigid employer. You have enough to eat and a decent home, and your kids are decently fed and clothed. You may have a new expensive car or an airplane, or be really happy with a paid off 15 y/o car or a bicycle. You are 'rich' if you haven't gotten yourself into a consumer/debt/credit card cycle, you live well within your means, whether you make $20k or $200k per year. Maybe your house is paid off, and so is your car. Maybe you live in a clean and very cheap apartment. If you don't go to work for six months you don't have creditor problems.
Poor means that you frantically have to go to work every day to avoid losing your car or house or to avoid being sued by your creditors. Maybe you are making $200k, but you can still be poor. Your time isn't your own. You have sold yourself to the consumer dream. You are a wage slave.
Those who work in a factory because they like it are very lucky. Have you seen the movie Ikiru in which a young girl chooses to work in a toy factory and happily imagines babies all over Japan playing with the toys?
Yet, there are people who are frugal and yet have to work every day in jobs they hate just to get food and shelter for their loved ones. My mother was one. She would come home from a food processing plant every day smelly, greasy and exhausted for a very low wage.
I am now in the category of someone who lives within his means, is able to help others a little and feels rich. For now and unless. But it is not always possible.
In a society in which medical care, rent or education are very expensive, you do not necessarily have to spend foolishly to be poor. I wish it were possible for people to do honest work, with reasonable pay, hours and benefits and survive well. Single payer and affordable housing would help. Also, rejecting the idea that you have to buy everything that comes out on the market.
Joe
Yes, I have read about Henry-David's very well stated description of a "Wage-Slave".
My apology if that's not the source that you were referring to.
The points by the previous poster (Common-Dweebs) suggested that the terms "rich" and "poor" were indeed definitive and factual.
I argued that they are intangible and pointless to determine. The conflict that I had with the Poster (Common-Dweebs) arose when he argued (now deleted, sorry!) that Economic policy had to have a clearly defined term. I stated that the Gov hadn't defined anything and that Policy wonks use the term "definition" to argue and paralyze committee's and Policy meetings with no end result.
I appreciate your description and I agree with that. I just won't be baited into an argument about defining words without a Debate Team ready to go.
I guess common-dweebs decided to delete his remarks toward me yesterday, but how could he delete my post answering his question where I stated that I wouldn't give him or the other poster a definition of "Rich" or "Evilrich"?
Just curious...
Every evil regime has its self-serving mythology and assorted dupes who swear by it, so desperate in their slave state.
Okay I wanted to wait a minute to see if anyone else wanted to reply about the "Rich", "Poor" statement. Okay, no takers. Good then. Here is what I think.
The majority of Americans that make less that 100k per yr are "not" rich. I hope that you would agree.
For those few that make more than 100k per yr I feel like they are indeed more "Rich" than their neighbors.
This is not a taxation argument, nor a policy statement. This is my opinion and not the Presidents.
Is that independent and worthy of an education, as you say.
I am beginning to think that the 1000-word limit of Common Dreams is much, much too large. It should be 100 because if you cannot explain cogently what you want to say in 100 words you are just blowing hot air. The preceding is 42 words.
Piffle.
And the 42 word description is a better framed statement as well. I agree with the description of my post as too wordy. I was trying to offer various reasons why absolute definitions are problematic and a logic trap for policy wonks.
Let's find some common ground to discuss these issues and not use cheap debating techniques to stick our tongue out at the other person. Okay?
but indeed the definition of the word is what you are asking. Can you look up this definition?
Are you interested in discussion or are you interested in a contest between two opposing views?
My point: let's talk about what the two opposing sides had to say about their definition of the word "Rich".
I certainly don't own the definition, do you?
It's a good answer to your question.
In this Forum, the community doesn't mind debating words, but we are very loathe to accept any person's viewpoint. That's an absolutism that causes the same kind of divisiveness that you hear about on Rush Limbaugh's version of a public forum.
All defined by absolutism and an adherence to word definitions.
Never mind that the definitions are twisted to mean that health care is equal to Government takeover.
or How about "Rich, huh? who's to say, huh?
1n 1996 the Federal Gov defined what "Poor" was, as far as families getting assistance, then the debate raged over what the medicare limit should be set at. The Congress looked at 2 different ideas divided by Party lines that suggested that a family earning less than $8,000. per year and no more was truly poor. I don't think that anyone here would debate that, but the other party line said that the Poverty line was really about $17,000. per year and that anyone making above 17k would not be eligible for assistance. Do you remember any of this talk at all?
There's more: This bitching over word definitions resolved into two different camps that never agreed on the necessary definition and the debate still goes on.. While the nation's "Poor" are left out of the discussion. So the talk about word definitions gas a tangible problem.
Why don't we find some common terms that we can agree on.
Do I agree with the President's POV or with another POV?
That's a meaningful discussion.
hman
You are dissembling again. Forget legalistic definitions. Words like "Rich" and "Poor" are so often used to argue but not explain. The motto "End Poverty" has no meaning when poverty is defined as the bottom XX% of earners in America. People with lots of wealth, can have no tangible income at all, while some people with lots of income may live in an area that consumes most of it for bare necessities. "End Poverty" has lots of meaning when we define poverty as a standard of living: AA sq ft of living space per person, YY calories per day of nutrition, QQ quarts of clean water per person per day, etc.
In similar form, "rich" might mean a standard of living at TT times the threshold for poverty. These are meaningful definitions and worthwhile debates.
"Evil Rich" can never have any meaning outside "these people have more than I think they should have and did 'bad' things to get it." The term only inflicts my personal morality on people I don't know personally, and whose motives I cannot fathom.
Lastly, if anyone does not disagree with any president's POV, at least some of the time and on some issues, they are mere myrmidons(look it up), and need to get an education and begin thinking for themselves. It is absolutely true that if two people completely agree on everything, then one of them is redundant.
Most mainstream European conservative parties are more progressive than the Democratic party in the US. In other words, the US Democratic party would be considered to be a very hard right party if it existed in Europe.
As for the US Republican party, it would be considered an extreme, far right fringe party in most if not all European countries, and the party would have no chance to gain elective office to any extent at all.
President Nicholas Sarkozy of France came into office in 2007 threatening substantial shrinkage of French society solidarity and humanitarian programs such as minimum parental childbirth leaves and overtime limits. A few relatively minor changes were enacted in his first year.
But in the wake of the economic emergency caused by the mega greed in the United States, the French President has become much more progressive. He declared in the fall of 2008 that "laissez faire" economics is now history, and he has pulled back from dismantling regulations and programs put into effect by French parties of the left.
Meanwhile, top US officials are gradually starting to proceed and talk in the same way that full scale third world officials do. They are starting to tout a US "economic recovery" that exists only for rich people.
But US middle income and lower income people can not now and will not be able to for God only knows how many years easily, or not so easily for that matter, get a job even if they are highly qualified to get one.
In many European countries but especially in France, only a comparatively small number of middle class jobs have been lost during the US economics crisis, and there are already indications that France could actually be adding to the total of their jobs later this year. Whereas it appears that, at a rock bottom minimum, it will take until mid 2010 before any net new jobs at all are added in the US, and very possibly longer than that.
Begging the authors pardon; but, you are comparing apples and oranges. How do we stack up against the rest of the "third" world countries and economies?
Common-dweebs August 14th, 2009 8:54 pm
Why don't we all get rich by implementing a min wage of $150/hr.
Don't hurt yourself trying to figure out why it won't work out that way.
Holycrap that's stupid.
Easy answer. The correct distribution of wealth is when the average and median incomes are the same. Neither monarchy, in which the king owns everything, nor the classical Communist idea of equal distribution of all wealth and common ownership of everything, are sustainable. Both lead to chaos. Both are abuses of the incentive of wealth. Democratic socialism is the answer. This is where profit is allowed, but not if it damages society. Add an environmental component, and evolved standards of decency, and you have something that will work. That didn't hurt at all. Our evil empire and corporate crony capitalist system are what hurts, and this disaster is surely NOT sustainable.
crap ain't Holy, dork. We can read here. Stop with the cut and paste. That really is crap.
Jeevee
Is this a so-called Christian nation?
As Mahatma Gandhi said, "I like your Christ; I just don't like your Christians.
There are about 140,000 Christians in the US, and they call themselves Quakers.
The rest belong to a bizarre cult who follow the Adam Smith/Joe Smith mantra of "The Lord helps those that help themselves".
Nietzsche was mostly correct when he said "Jesus Christ was the last Christian".
Old system that never changed with the times.
Used to be you worked for a corporation because they had the most advanced technology.
No more. The technology on a corporate computer network on average is 3 to 7 years old. My computer has the most advanced state of the art tech.
Corporations couldn't justify the great expense of constant updating and the need to integrate with other networks. The cost of making it work were too high. Sometimes new tech would be outdated before they could fully integrate it.
The corporation was an anomaly and is in it's death throws.
Lack of universal health care is the main reason for the lack of small business and inovation as well as the extreem power of the corporation relative to the rest of the industrialized countries.
People are less likely to oppose a system they disagree with if they can't take care of themselves or their famalies.
Cutting costs have become the religion of US business. Thus eventually no one can afford what they produce. Unless
There is a basic minimum income with universal health care. Thus no one is forced to work for a company they don't want to just to support their famalies. The basic income allows them to start small businesses and innovate.
It's not a question of resources. There has never been a similar time of drowning in natural, and intelligence resources to provide anything we need.
It can't be any other way. Look at the old History Channel shows on the industrial revolution. You see assembly lines with hordes of workers swarming around. What do you see now.
You see robots, you see intelligent systems, you see systems that work, think and learn. The human element of physical labor is being removed.
These jobs are lost and will never be replaced. The question is what do you do with the people that aren't needed to produce all the goods we would ever need.
A GUARNTEED MINIMUM WAGE IS THE ANSWER.
"Lack of universal health care is the main reason for the lack of small business and inovation"
It's more fundamental than that. Elites destroyed small business opportunities in the USA by disabling the competition laws and putting the US government, and most other institutions across the land into general service of the elites' behemoth global corporations.
mkdelta August 14th, 2009 8:46 pm
"A GUARNTEED MINIMUM WAGE IS THE ANSWER."
Holycrap that's stupid.
Why don't we all get rich by implementing a min wage of $150/hr.
Don't hurt yourself trying to figure out why it won't work out that way.
The last part of your nick is a perfect fit.
How much intelligence does it take to address a small part without addressing the whole.
Another Sarah Palin, Rush, Bill O, Glen Beck wannabe?
My Jack Russel could have exerted more thought energy.
I see....
BIG (Basic income guarantee) is stupid.
Of course on wall street guaranteed bonuses of millions of dollars for a single individual regardless of work performance is quite rational.
You need help.
Corporate masters have gloried in their brutality. The American people have also been ravaged- spiritually, physically, mentally. Are we so ghoulish and cannibalistic as to pick over the remaining carcasses??
Yes, we bought the propaganda, but we have not wished to destroy our fellow human beings!
My heart breaks daily for so many who have been wronged. The Force of Love is the only power that can drive out this evil. There has to be a tipping point- it may be you! All can be accomplished, but it starts with self-love and forgiveness.
The French made the mistake of voting for Sarkozy as a reaction to the Muslim riots. Disasters are conservative's fodder.
Gee then what happened in 1932 and november 2008?
Forgive me if we don't seem to be lurching right, wildly out of control.
People finally had enough of conservative lies, spying, cronyism, corruption, pollution, war, theft, murder, rape and rose up against it in spite of elite's MSM propaganda.
If you don't see us lurching right wildly out of control, maybe you haven't been watching the Town Hall meetings.
Well said.
the largest industry in america is the production of the over inflated, misguided ego.
What, also, is not mentioned, 'milton friedman, the big promoter of an 'unfettered' global free market and even though this little dip sh*t didn't invent such an economic system, he was able to cleverly put all manner of arcane formulas to it that caught the attention of who else, the criminal bend people, mostly conservatives and neoconservatives who must have been salivating like pavlov's dogs that here was a way to hegemonize the world with as a corrupt system that has ever been devized.
you are correct , samosamo .
In fact Milton Friedman was the Centre of the Universe of the
"disaster capitalism" practiced by the USA for decades...as an
"improvement" over the PREVIOUS decades of imperialism.
Milton Friedman's way was exactly what the Former CIA "economic hitman" John Perkins revealed as being part of the CIA
operation , including himself for decades, in south america, asia, middle east and africa...
to 1) take advantage of vulnerabilities of countries
2) to CREATE conditions so as to weaken them
in order to (in Perkin's own words) "make countries PERMANENTLY SUBJUGATED to our will and the interests of our chamber of commerce".
just a few examples:
Milton Friedman was the one that directed the American policy based in the "washington consensus" - to cement American imperialism in South America - long considered by the USA as its "backyard" - by means of CREATING conditions - such as fomenting these FAKE "wars on drugs"...as a cover for militarizing the region and installing rightwing conservative dictatorhsips
themselves picked from "leaders" who were TRAINED by the "school of the americas" ini torture, assassinations, murder, martial law...etc..
another was Milton Friedman's quip, just before he died,
when the great Tsunami struck due to a gigantic under-sea earthquake - that devastated areas of indonesia, malaysia, etc..--
This was a GOLDEN opportunity for his disaster capitalism ...
that it was a GIFT to be able to "reform" the area according to Capitalist, USA style corporate controlled structure.
meaning:
privatize, privatize, privatize....OWN their water, OWN their trees, OWN their lands, OWN their shores, OWN their gas and olil, OWN everything they have...and render the natives
PERMANENT SLAVES to AMERICAN CORPORATE IMPERIALISM and Capitalism.
there is really a word for these people and this system
EVIL, JUST PURE UNADULTERATED EVIL.
Yes, and you just brought to my mind that I saw, recently, a Part II version of the 'Zeitgeist' movie that does interviews with I believe that john perkins, but at least an economic hit man and it is just incredible what those people and the ones coming in behind them did and are still doing, for all I know.
Worse even still is the 'protection' these criminals, evil criminals, receive by our and the world's strongest governments, our cia and military, all of which bespeaks of a conspiracy that is very far reaching and, again, for all I know, ongoing.
And don't forget the world bank, international monetary fund, world trade organization, trilateral commission, the counsel of foreign relations, all, working in collusion to further or cement that creep milton friedman's most evil plan and I was really impressed with naomi klein's 'shock doctrine' that explained all this and daniel eustulin's ' the bilderberg group' which indroduces a lot of the players in this financial terrorist attack of unimaginable proportions.
That book, 'Confessions of an Economic Hitman' will be a purchase very soon as this will definitely be another part of the 'criminal world gone global' which I hope can be put to a stop.
That the USA scores near the bottom on small business employment should come as no surprise. Those who have always appreciated the value of mass economic independence, primarily libertarians on the right, share in the current crisis of the right, paralysis as their "dear leaders" destroy everything. In contrast, liberals and so called progressives, never express much value for small businesses, preferring to emphasize big government, big business, and big unions.
These groups have rendered themselves useless in the struggle to keep production in the USA much less at the local level where it belongs. The far-left agrees with the libertarians on the question of enterprise size. The far-left ideal is limited asset ownership and enterprise size to ten man-powers. Productivity is maximized with small enterprise size and happiness is maximized with small asset size. Are we ready to demand universal rights to ownership/control of production?
One aspect of our mad economy is seldom mentioned namely that it also demands a continuously increasing population of buyers. That some of these buyers cannot afford to purchase expensive clothing or shoes does not matter today because there is a huge market for cheap clothing and shoes mostly imported from abroad.
In addition to the question: how much debt can our country afford? there is the question: how many people can our country afford? One billion? Two billion? Mr. Krugman never considers this aspect. Have you, reader of these two paragraphs?
you are so right.
fundamentally -- capitalism is about profits above anything else. it is not about "being competitive in order to SURVIVE" as a business..it is about PROFITMAKING MAXIMIZED as much as possible.
with that -- comes doing everything to "cut costs" (which are not really "costs" but rather - earnings which capitalists do not WISH to SHARE with their laborers - again towards the maximizing of profits).
from that comes _ downward pressure on wages
from that comes a population UNABLE to buy what it produces
from that comes DEBT-ridden society -- the credit card business, insurance, etc...
from that arises businesses UNABLE to maximize profits as buyers become UNABLE to keep up with the prices based on their low , suppressed wages...
from that comes more "cost cutting" - lay-offs, lower wages some more, no benefits
from that comes "competing for LOWER prices" -
from that comes transfering jobs somewhere where the "costs" - that is, wage and production costs, are even LOWER.
creating EVEN MORE populations with LOW wages UNABLE to afford what they produce.....
and on and on it goes...until
left with "wealth" and "money" and "assets" they have NO place to PARK it in - because they WOULDN"T share it with LABOR to begin with -
financial investors and businesses end up having to gamble with their money and "wealth" based on GUESS WORK about
the CURRENCIES and BONDS and STOCKS they are holding...until they have to BUBBLE it up as the "returns" come back with even LESS real value
until it all blows up all over again.
the answer?
a GLOBAL WAGE CARTEL - where MONEY capitalists are controlled by the Wages based on higher and higher wage value, regardless of what the laborer's work is.
this is of course the opposite of the US model and capitalism which places only MONEY capital as the sole arbiter of "value"....and monetizes LABOR itself which is actually the SOURCE of value for money to begin with.
Ted said:
"a GLOBAL WAGE CARTEL - where MONEY capitalists are controlled by the Wages based on higher and higher wage value, regardless of what the laborer's work is."
I was agreeing with you teddy, right up til that part. If you subscribe to this "New World Order Government" the next thing you know here come the monopolies into town to impoverish everyone by "privatizing" their Water, Food, utils and rent etc. Their wages may go up, but the Fortune 500 will rape them because their expenses will go up faster. The NeoCons will corrupt the government the same way they did in the US.
That's the last thing we want is CEO imperial stormtroppers on my little island. Right now the electrical power is owned by ME through a co-op and it's fairly cheap. Even the poor are allowed to tap on with a sneaky line and unlike Repulicans we don't say anything about it or try to put them in jail. It's a realistic form of welfare. And it's one that the NeoCon Repukes can't steal from the people because it's not sitting around in a government fund or pension somewhere just begging to be raided.
Big Government programs are bad, bad, bad, because the Loony Right will always pervert them, pretending to help the people when in reality, they are bailing out themselves with bonuses and write-offs. The US treasury today is nothing more than corporate welfare. Ralph Nader is right to rail on about the dirty hand of wall street in the US cookie jar.
Thomas Jefferson warned that this would happen if we created a big government that always knows best. He was for a weak central government. He was against a greedy central bank sucking the lifeblood out of the economy and the people.
Cut the Federal Government by 90 percent and let the real local people run things. Break the Fortune 500 into the Local 5,000,000. That oughta be worth about fifty years of freedom right there. It is the only way.
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
The only problem with this article is its title. These myths aren't biting the dust. They are promoted daily by our mass media, especially FOX news. These myths are alive and well and not going anywhere.
Now if ONLY we could get all the illegal aliens to read and believe this before they risk their lives to get here.
If the US sucks sooo bad, could at least some of you losers find asylum somewhere else?
loser= all you schmucks who can't stand the USA.
You are just plain dumb.
Wait a minute. You can't possibly be a US citizen who left almost 20 years ago. And not everyone's "ignorant racist bigots". Besides, every country has its set of them, some more than others.
I sure can be a US citizen who left almost 20 years ago.
Citizenship does not expire.
And there are US citizens all over this planet--some of which left MORE than 20 years ago.
EVERYONE doesn't have to be a racist bigot in the US for me to feel uncomfortable there--there are waaaaay too many of you.
Thanks
I really appreciate it.
You are really fading fast Dweeb. If no one is paying you for your work here, i really can't imagine a more pathetic existence. Either way, paid or unpaid, you're not doing a very good job.
In dweeb's employer's case,
You get what you pay for! ;-)
well -- of course there are "USA'ans" that can't stand CRITICISM and TRUTH about the dastardly nature of much of the USA behind the FACADE of "lawfulness" and "righteousness" and "morality" and above all
CHRISTIANITY and CIVILIZATION
even if it's TRUE.
they can';t STAND to ADMIT that Committing GENOCIDE against native indians to STEAL THEIR LAND is a MONSTROUS crime and sinful....and they can't stand to admit that THEY , claiming their are "upstanding americans" are CONNIVING IN COVERING UP the
STINK of the USA that GOD HIMSELF -whatever or whoever he IS -
would FAINT in heaven from the stink!
as Mahatma gandhi said...when being asked by some Time Reporter EAGER to elicit glowing comments about the "greatness of the USA":
"I Don't LIKE your christians -- they are so ......UNCHRISTLIKE"......
but of course - since he KNEW what was the TRUE history and nature of the USA.........
that of GENOCIDE of native indians, ENSLAVEMENT of millions of africans - to build its "Shining city on the hill" from which to embark on a planetary Conquest
known TODAY in PENTAGON CIRCLES as "full spectrum dominance"
in order to spread - what general smedley butler, US marines, 1933 -- REVEALED as
"OUR NATION OF MONEY AND WAR RACKETEERS and PREDATORS".........
"the trouble with US americans is: when our DOLLAR can't buy more than 6 % of its value at home.......we GET UNEASY and we go abroad so it can buy 100% more ..and where the Dollar goes, our flag follows, where the flag goes, our ARMY follows..a spent 30 years serving our BIG BOSS, our supernationalistic capitalism to make the world safe for it and our CULTURAL and ECONOMIC ASSAULT, and even if i knew , i suspended MY conscience...but I will have NOTHING more to do with it..it is EVIL"
YOU are going to claim you are "patriotic?"
you are NOTHING compared with General Smedley Butler, US marines, with all his MEDALS SPREADING CAPITALISM and the USA's Economic and cultural assault
"in THREE continents....al capone had nothing on me...his RACKET was only in chicago and a few other cities ...>MINE was in THREE continents for our big banks, big corporations , big finance and our BIG BOSS... our supernationalistic capitalism"........
and YET - HE had the GUTS to ADMIT IT at the end.......and say
"IT IS EVIL".
so there you go!!!
there is an easy answer to that kind of rhetoric calling "illegal" immigrants to the USA as "losers"
....
COULD THE USA PLEASE go and FIND ANOTHER PLANET to exploit and not the countries on earth - like those from south america where its rightwing corporate agenda for generations forced citizens of THOSE countries out of their livelihoods -- FORCING THEM TO GO NORTH to USA
where the EXPLOITATION of their countries EMANATES like putrid poison?.
maybe if the USA can go and find SOME planet somewhere that "winner" americans can EXPLOIT to their hearts' content and LEAVE THE PLANET EARTH ALONE.......
the LAND that the USA OCCUPIES and REALLY JUST STOLE from native indians and mexicans
would actually be populated by NATIVE AMERICANS - from north and south america to whom they REALLY BELONGED......
after all -- the south americans - most of whom probably make up the "illegals" crossing the border from the south BECAUSE OF GENERATIONS of US corporate exploitation and control - were in the americas LONG before ANY white man ever came around
and if they DO go NORTH to the USA -- why
they are MERELY RECLAIMING SOME of what was STOLEN FROM THEM anyway!!
including a means of having a livelihood........
would the USA PLEASE at least ADMIT that if there is any nation that should claim ILLEGALITY as to ITS existence and actions
it is NONE OTHER THAN THE US of A?
after all -- in addition to ILLEGALLY and CRIMINALLY STEALING LAND from native indians and enslaving so many millions to build its "wonderful" industries and banks and corporations --
the USA was "established" BY -- WHITE EUROPEAN descendants of LOSERS from europe anyway......u know -- those kind that were the REJECTS of their old societies and so found another LAND across the seas to STEAL from NATIVE INDIANS
and south americans?.......
goodness -- some USA'ns really DO have a very POOR idea of their own history and who's REALLY BEEN the real ILLEGALS!
it ain't the south americans or latinos from south america crossing the border....
it's the NATION UP NORTH that sets up "laws" and "rules" to protect ITS ILLEGALITY as a NATION BUILT ON THEFT of land, resources and livelihood from OTHERS for many many generations!
which country did you THINK was BEHIND fomenting the WAR INITIATED by the country GEORGIA - led by ITS rightwing DICTATOR shakaashvili - against russian ETHNICS in provinces of Abkhazia and South ossetia whicn SINCE 1990 declared THEY wanted to be UNDER Russian influance and NOT georgia with whom they have DIFFERENCES since centuries ago? it wasn't
military excercise, munitions, support, and "advice" from mongolia or south korea, u know.......
which country did you think has been INSIDE the BORDERS of a sovereign country it ONCE installed and supported a RIGHTWING BRUTAL DICTATOR to serve US corporate interests at the expense of the natives -- and tries to "regime change" INSIDE IRAN?
how would YOU and americans LIKE IT if iran or china or russia TRIED TO "make regime change" and INSTALL "russian, chinese, iranian" cultures and world views INSIDE and UPON americans?
as PATRICK J BUCHANAN, the archconservative, for ONCE< says CORRECTLY:
"we should get out of this business of world empire...and get out of THOSE lands...before THEY kick US out!!....we didn't LIKE it when the USSR was in OUR neighborhood of cuba years ago.........so..........what are WE doing in RUSSIA's backyard?"
you can apply that GLOBALLY .
americans DON"T LIKE "illegal aliens" or "suckers coming to the USA?"
they are THERE to TAKE what the USA has TAKEN FROM THEM generations long!
if americans don't LIKE that -- americans should STOP warmongering and occupying the WORLD! and stop stickign their noses where they don't belong!
if they don't want "aliens" "taking advantage of america"
america should FIRST NEVER HAVE started TAKING ADVANTAGE of the rest of the world.
if there are certain "fruits" that americans DON'T LIKE the TASTE of...........
you are only harvesting the crops you yourselves have PLANTED long ago....with the EMPIRE.
This is our country, and it is our duty to fix it, not seek asylum as you so glibly suggest.
You sound like a conservative asshole, and butt-hurt.
I prefer to see the glass as half-full:
We're #1 in Denial of Actual Facts;
We're #1 in Obesity;
We're #1 in Inmates and Ex-Cons;
We're #1 in Innocents Killed/Wounded During Illegal Invasions;
And, of course, We're #1 in Weapons Sales!!!
Just the women now: We're #1! We're #1! We're #1!
The Guardian mistakenly credits the author Mark Weisbrot with the European version of the "Centre for Economic and Policy Research". This is not the American version to which Mr. Weisbrot is a co-director.
Probably a simple typo.
The difference is huge in intent though because the European "Centre for Economic and Policy Research" is a research organization that invites contributions from world class economists like Paul Krugman and not the Washington D.C. based "Center for Economic and Policy Research", a private organization with Mr. Weisbrot and Dean Baker listed as Co-directors.
Of course you probably already know that this group, in Washington, published a book before the Bush Administration's attempt to "save" the Social Security crisis. the groups 1999 publication is "Social Security: The Phony Crisis".
Well, y'all love capitalism.
None of this matters. They will still peddle the big lie starting with we are making the world safe for Democracy.
you know what is ironic?
there is that famous movie -- INDEPENDENCE DAY
showing the USA LEADING the fight for freedom from the Aliens that were going to enslave and consume the earth until they've sucked everything out of it - and then go back to their huge spaceship which is their entire civilization -- and they move on to the next planet to suck life out of? and they use their superior technology to do ONLY THAT?
the irony is :
instead of being the :leader of freedom as the USA loves to intone about itself........
IT IS ACTUALLY like THAT civilization moving in a spaceship - from culture to culture, country to country, region to region..
and its "superior civilization" consists of its technology for wars, both economic and military , and its myths of the "Right" to rule and consume everyone else -
SUCKING THE LIFE OUT OF ALL OF THEM.....
you are an astute cinemaphile
I like it *****
We don't have that much power--to suck the life out of other cultures. You blame the United States for these heinous crimes, but the real problem comes from the human species, not our particular culture.
Take China, for example. Here you have a society willing to pollute water and air, turn its back on the poor, be unresponsive to governmental abuse--and you think the United States is responsible for this? You have little knowledge of Chinese history. For dynasty after dynasty it has always been the same: exalt the rich and powerful, all at the expense of the peasants.
You think US influence is pernicious--just wait until the Chinese or, God forbid, the Russians take control. Then the US drone attacks over Pakistan will seem like assaults of mosquitoes. Which is not to say we should continue what we are doing. It is just that you cannot blame all that goes wrong in the world on the United States.
i am very sorry to correct you -- part of my upbringing is study of ASIAN HISTORY dear one. including the dynasties of china, the ming, yan, han, etc. empires WITHIN the present confines of china . you ALSO don't seem to understand that this is part of what IS ESSENTIALLY a SOCIALIST CULTURE of china from eons ago -- you WOULDN'T undrstand THAT unless you WERE asian and studied asian history as well.
you might also BEGIN to understand that BEFORE the western imperial forays into asia - the dynastic cultures of china were largely benevolent - as opposed to the WESTERN POINT OF VIEW and propaganda painting china as "oppressive".
again -- that is a subject matter that is difficult for westernview people to understand.
and YES - it is true that the UNITED STATES WAS responsible - as much as Britain, and the Dutch and russians and belgians and french were
late in the 19century -
for GANGING UP on china - when china's LAST dynasty (150 years old) became too corrupt and weak and allowed the conquest of their land as their forefathers and mothers DID NOT allow.
do you realize that the REASON china embarked on nationalist revolts were NOT because of the dynastic culture which had existed and was considered NATURAL to the chinese philosophy centered around confucianism and taoism and the s0-called "yin-yang" concepts - but WESTERN IMPERIALISM that was led by england and the united states?
the result was TWO factions of nationalists - the right wing and the left wing...the right wing started to assassinated left-wing leaders and members and ended up to become the
faction that is now in TAIWAN -
and the rest became the communist party.
nevertheless BOTH were reactions to US LED IMPERIALISM in lands it doesn't belong TO!
would you like to read how GENERAL SMEDLEY BUTLER, US MARINES in the 1910's to 1930's
was the "high class muscle man for our foreign policy of gathering as much of the world's resources unto ourselves at the expense of others...and our WAR and MONEY RACKETS for our Big Oil, Big Banks, Big Finance, Big Corporations....you wanted to make CHINA SAFE so OUR big OIL can run unmolested? and get cheap labor? i'd do it for you". ?
did you KNOW that the USA instigated bombing raids using US servicement as "terrorists" and "suicide bombers" IN TRIPOLI africa to make sure its SLAVE TRADE WAS SAFE from "pirates" over there thousands of miles away where it had NO BUSINESS poking its nose in their affairs to enrich ITS coffers in the 18 century?
which COUNTRY did you THINK unloaded chemical bombs and all kinds of munitions -- far more than the ENTIRE second world war - over INDOCHINA just in order to "save face" in its DEFEAT from vietnam because the vietnamese SIMPLY WANTED TO BE LEFT ALONE as their own country? it ain't CANADA, or brazil or venezuela or congo or haiti , u know......
which country did you think CAUSED untold suffering - still having its effect TODAY in BHOPAL INDIA from CORPORATE MALFEASANCE by POISONING their waters to make BATTERIES by exploiting their CULTURE for CHEAP LABOR?.....it ain't CHINA nor north korea , u know.....
which COUNTRY did you THINK just had a corporation of BIG OIL, EXXON MOBIL, LOSE a court case of many years
to an african man and his tribe - after decades of TERRORIZING the natives in order to extract their OFF_SHORE OIL and then poisoning THEIR waters and jungles with refineries?.....it ain't madagascar nor new guinea, u know.....
which country did you THINK Supported and/or installed BRUTAL rightwing regimes ALL OVER SOUTH AMERICA to IMPOVERISH their citizens and extract their resources and STEAL their lands with legal mumbo-jumbo ......or install the BRUTAL dictatorships of the SHAH of IRAN or the Philippines or -- recently -- GEORGIA of shakaashvili - and other nations?
it ain't taiwan nor hongkong, nor ecuador, u know.....
which country did you THINK CAUSED , through its "prescriptions" of "free market and privatization"
THE SWIFT COLLAPSE of the ENTIRE economy of ICELAND in 2008, and of ESTONIA and LATVIA?
it ain't CHINA nor russia nor turkey , nor syria, u know.....
it's got a name though:
U S A .
all the way from STEALING LAND from NATIVE INDIANS, ENSLAVING over 20 million africans , and millions more OTHER citizens in THEIR own countries through corporate malfeasance and militarism
ALL THE WAY TO
today - in honduras, and other countries......
Thanks for that Teddy....
I want to read more Asian Histories and I would like to understand the Nationalist struggles of China from before 1912 and afterward.
I haven't gotten that far in my historical education yet.
I'm focusing on the American Historical period from the Revolutionary Period on up through today.
It's a reaction to listening to the American Political Machine and trying to weigh that against what the original Founding Fathers really did want for our country.
This modern rhetoric from our political leaders doesn't match the version of what Washington, Franklin, Jefferson, Adams, or even Abraham Lincoln would have wanted.
I have read General Smedley Butler's book, "War Is A Racket", I heard it mentioned on this same CD community last year and went out and found a copy of it. "Old Gimlet Eye", was quite a warrior.
The only soldier, living or dead, to ever be awarded the National Medal of Honor, twice.
He was also the most outspoken critic of the U.S.Army and because of those statements he was forced to retire.
He took to lecturing, and used his words to the Great Depression era version of our own liberal meeting house about just who the American Military Machine was. As you already mentioned our American business owners did act and still act deplorably.
Funny story.
Try this yourself.
Buy a copy of General Butlers book "War Is A Racket" and try showing this to any currently serving US soldier or veteran and guage their response.
True fact, everyone of them knows even today who General Butler was.
It must be a training exercise to get that kind of retention.
The reaction that I saw was that not one of these soldiers will say that they understand the logic that General Butler describes, point by point, to demonstrate the vice of the US Army and it's suppliers.
I haven't served in the armed Services, so I apologize to any present or past serving personnel. I'm only stating the truth of this fact to our little community here.
Teddy,
Your education in Asian studies is suspect if you think the various dynasties in China were benevolent towards the peasants.
Your recitation of the sins of the United States goes on and on--and some of them are true. All I am saying is--the present failed capitalist system does not belong to one country. It belongs to many. The United States does not have the power to control other people's thinking in the manner you claim. No country does.
You divide up the world into two camps: the US and its allies--the evil side, and the rest of the world including native peoples, the good side. So simplistic. We are not as bad as you make out and they are not as good. Native peoples--lets take American Indians of the Northeast as an example, since I know some history of some of the tribes. Life for them involved considerable warfare before white settlement. It was not all hunting and gathering and farming. They did lousy things to each other and they did not learn them from white men. There are aspects of their culture--the position of women for example--that were unhealthy and unfair. Good riddance to them. If white culture helped them disappear, so much the better.
Try to get out of your dualistic mode of thinking. You will see the world in a clearer light.
I did not claim I am scholarly or knowledgeable enough to be masterful about asian culture and history. yet you make your accusation about my "suspect knowledge" of it through an insinuation that "suspect knowledge" of this culture is somehow based on my assuming expertise on it.
but let ME ask you:
if my knowledge of it is somehow suspect -- what are WE to take YOURS? because you are discussing facts of history that anyone that studies world, human, social history wherein cultures commit atrocities also -- you somehow gain authority to say that MY discussion of things I know about asian history is suspect?
that dynastic cultures in china practiced what you point out were "oppressive " towards peasants - is based on WHAT? how much of THAT is based on your OPINION of the structure of chinese culture that somehow has allowed china to exist as in fact the most successfully prosperous and - comparative to the MERE 500 years of modern european history - generally been far less violent or atrocious in ALL of its 6,000 year continuity -- PERHAPS because the chinese culture , mentality allows the existence of "dynastic rule" based on their confucian state which is highly central to it
as would be the s0-called "democracy" of the west?
I mentioned something:
the INHERENTLY SOCIALIST nature of chinese culture (one may refer to it in writings by an asiatimesonline writer - Henry CK Liu)
which alien though THAT may be to western thinking whose ideas of "rulers" based on kingships is QUITE different from that which is based on what chinese consider as a NATURAL matter - again, because this is largely based on a common acceptance of it through their belief in confucianism (if you were asian, regardless of what your politics is, you WOULD understand how CENTRAL this is to the chinese culture) - that
"rulership" in chinese culture carries with it a VERY real sense of obligation and responsibility towards the general welfare - great as the concentration of power is.
even to the point of being "xenophobic".
I can go on -- but no time right now. I will simply say that
being asian that was brought up with about equal measure of acceptance of BOTH western "lifestyle" and thinking as well as inherently also asian
and studying BOTH their world cultures and history (since my particular interest was in arts, society and music of both spheres which NATURALLY would imbibe social, cultural and political histories - ex: "western thinking, the greek classics and mythologies in the music of the west, etc.-- china's musical system, indonesia's, indian raga, tala, etc.)
I would say that without having to be "scholarly" as might please you -- i
rather have the view of BOTH worlds, both from the inside and outside of each.
i have lived half my life in asia , growing up, and the other half in the west...with constant awareneness of their "balancing acts".
I do not think you are entirely correct in YOUR own conditioned responses towards what you call my "suspect" knowledge of these matters.
Teddy knows what he is talking about. I disagree with your assumption that he is not an Asian scholar. As to the natives in North America, I suggest you read the book "1392". It's describes the way things were here before we Europeans came. So they failed to "learn" from the whites and so they deserved to be decimated? So might makes right, eh? You will live to regret that statement. For now, continue in your techno weenie superior attitude about the "lowly savages" that we europeans came to civilize. You will soon be quite surprized.
AGG: The book is actually "1491" by Charles Mann, and it is definitely worth reading.
You are right. I had the date wrong. I confused it with something I read recently about Chinese expeditions before the European ones.
About Asian history: in my training (B.A. University of Michigan, Far Eastern Languages and Literature), I do not remember my professors asserting early Chinese dynasties were "essentially socialistic" as was said here. I need to have a reference by a reputable scholar that supports that position.
As for your comments about Native Americans: I did not say I agreed with European policies towards the Indians. I only said that Indian cultures were far from perfect in their governance, treatment of women, practices of warfare, and more. They didn't "deserve" anything from whites. I was only expressing my disagreement that the influence of the West has always been uniformly evil and that existing (non-Native) cultures have always been innocent, pure, and good. That is a product of dualistic thinking and does not help us understand the past or the present.
drosera August 14th, 2009 1:10 pm.........The United States is a virus upon this earth. And, yes, we do have the power to suck the life out of other cultures and have done it time and time again....starting with our own indigenous peoples.
China knew nothing of autism until we exported our mercury laden vaccines.
The list is endless....Read Naomi Klein or Perkins or even Chomsky.
Yep, the the West gave us capitalism, materialism, and modern warfare and, oh, I forgot, the Enlightenment, Science, and--what was it?--Democracy. Some of those cultures that "had the life sucked out of them" received something far better than they ever gave up and if they are honest, will admit the truth.
The East and West each have their pluses and minuses. Neither side is perfect. Try mixing the two or at least take the best of both sides. Blaming one side or the other won't help.
the "enlightenment" of course is RELATIVE to the DARK periods IN EUROPE -- but promoted by WESTERN thinking as "enlightenmnent for the WHOLE world".
it would be nice if that were corrected
it would ALSO be nice if that enlightenmnent PREVENTED SLAVERY , EXPLOITATION, COLONIALISM across the seas.........
after all even the enlightenment ITSELF was just a branch of OLDER thinking gathered FROM the EAST.
as for SCIENCE and technology from it that the west likes to brag about
WHERE would THAT science and technology BE - twisted as it is BY the ":Enlightened west" through WMDs and global wars (TWICE in west related and instigated ones) -
IF the Ancient EASTERNERS such as INDIANS did NOT first DISCOVER the concept of ZERO ? which found its way through Arab lands and then NORTH to Greece and THEN to the west?.
the WEST would LIKELY still be BARBARIANS!
as an old Indian man told a British man looking down upon the "backward india" :
"we were here long before you were even TRIBES in the west....we shall still be here , long after your empires are no more".
and what HAS "western democracy" actually accomplished?
the CLASS warfare continues - does it not? the "democracy" has produced the "emancipation" of the CORPORATE PERSONHOOD to ravage the planet, has it not?
"technology" has brought us the ATOMIC BOMB and WMD's has it not? it has also brought the "democracy" of "capitalism" that has caused MALDISTRIBUTION of resources , has it not?
and for that matter - did you know that where Human Rights - as supposedly the greatest reason for democracy - did NOT really start with the Greeks or the west?
it started in PERSIA thousands of years ago..etched in stone
declaring Human rights - which today stands in the lobby of the United Nations.
one of its principles, you might be surprised was , declared by the king of persia :
That so long as nations no longer tried to attack persia and use her for their purposes -- the countries persia conquered to defend itself from their constant raids -
were "to be given the absolute right to decide whether they wish to remain under persian rule or become independent again..."
and if to remain under persian rule -- "that their rights to their religions and gods, and self-governance and taxation are theirs alone....but that the persian king would ensure that the labor of people is respected and theft of properties be condemned".
that's NOT something the ":democracies" you intone really hav e been practicing , u know.
as for science and technology advancement :
all empires and kingdoms always bragged about it .
today is no different.
the west -- as far as "democracy" or "freedom" is concerned IS A JOHNNY COME LATELY in the human history scheme of things.
You forgot to mention some British imperial contributions like providing railroads and other Victorian Age "benefits" of the Industrial Revolution to those ingrates in India, Africa and elsewhere. The "white man's burden" truly is enormous and unceasing. How could the ignorant Chinese or the totally uneducated Arabs and Persians ever have survived without western enlightenment and science?
More to the point, however, the gift giving isn't the problem. It's the gift retraction that seems to irritate some people for some strange reason.
USA-touters NEVER read anything.
You are wasting your breath.
I sometimes think that U.S. self-congratulatory hypocrisy and exceptionalist attitudes actually cause as much global revulsion as its substantive actions -- at least among those who aren't direct targets of those actions.
The crude "bull in a china shop" interventions in other people's affairs might be somewhat more tolerable if the bull weren't quite so ostentatiously proud of its destructive behavior.
By the same token we shoudln't puff ourselves up, prattling about exceptionalism and the city on the hill and all that other buffonery about liberating the poor suffering masses bowing to kiss our savior feet.
Maybe for Mark, the US economic system has been discredited only recently. For us Marxists, we've known this for a long long time now. :-) But it is good to see others finally realizing it also.
Reaganomics, in which we would all bask in the tricklin'-down benefits of good ol' unregulated crony corporate capitalism, has run its course - its predictable demise being the great economic implosion of 2008.
But there is hope - we've paid trillions for the same players to play the same game over yet again. We haven't imposed a single oversight on financial operators or re-introduced a single regulation to prevent ourselves from being raped again. We've watched as corporations looted pension contracts with the aid of a judicial system who deemed those contractual obligations too draining on the private sector, while the same judiciary has decreed the obscene bank bonuses, paid with our money, as invoilable because they are contractual.
This country should be ashamed of what it's become and what "values" it holds dear. We have become the scum of the earth.
"Fool me once, shame....can't fool me again" G.W. Bush
There is no apparent limit to how many times the people of the USA can be fooled by the same people selling the same snake oil.
There is a limit to how long this cycle of theft by having to be bailed out followed by theft by reckless, stupid, and heartless business practices leads inevitably to having to be bailed out again.
The USA may be rich, but not that rich. Our game plan seems to be to grow this monster greater each year as we speed ever faster toward running out of track.
Somebody somewhere is doing this for a reason. I have a very bad feeling about it.
NIETZSCHE,
You've made a small error in the errant bushism, making him seem less psychotic:
INITIALLY the script was written for the well known phrase:
__“ Fool me once, shame on you,"
__" Fool me twice, shame on me "
But, Geo was _ u n a b l e _ to speak those words, and instead he said:
__“Fool me once, shame … shame on … you,”
followed by a long searching pause … , and then:
__“Fool me … can’t get fooled again!”
( see http://www.serendipity.li/wot/conover01.htm )
Mark Crispin Miller, author of The Bush Dyslexicon, continues
“What’s revealing about this is that Bush could not say, ‘Shame on me’ to save his life. That’s a completely alien idea to him. This is a guy who is absolutely proud of his own inflexibility and rectitude.”
Another example, Miller said, occurred early in Bush’s White House tenure when he said,
“I know how hard it is to put food on your family.”
According to Miller, “That wasn’t because he’s so stupid that he doesn’t know how to say, ‘Put food on your family’s table’ — it’s because he doesn’t care about people who can’t put food on the table.”
Miller told Whyte, “When he tries to talk about what this country stands for, or about democracy, he can’t do it.
_||_
I enjoyed the analysis Abundant Luv. Thanks.
de nada
The generality of one being known by "the fruits of their tree" applies to both the shrub_in_thief and myself.
PONEROLOGY ( the scientific study of psychotics in gov't ) is far too important for humanity's survival to be left only to the "experts."
The more I learn, the more shocked I become to discover that essentially we are surrounded by a "sub-species" of humanity ( although those in the elite wouldn't see themselves as SUB to anything .
The elite are significantly over-represented by those w/o conscience ( psychopaths ), as that allows for maximum corporate profit ( through warmongering ). They exist primarily from their positions of power and influence ( a "natural" match ), and have the most excellent protective camouflage that makes us think that all of the easily noticed widespread evil is generally a result of a widespread immorality issue for ALL of humanity.
The weight of the world's evil is hardly carried upon the backs of Eve's daughters, nor Adam's sons -- evil is a choice in every moment, which some people ( ~ 6 to 18% of general population ) as psychopaths really DO NOT have a choice about ( they're mentally deranged and need our help, to isolate them from harming us ).
If humankind were able to discover ( EEGs show this ) and isolate those that are essentially "son's of snakes" ( sorry to disparage the sinuous crawlers, it's the bible's allegory ), I suspect that 99 % of evil would be controlled. For example, during the Savings and Loan Bubble, it was determined that only 10% of CEOs acted fraudulently ( 9 out of 10 used their conscience and moral compasses to not go criminal ).
Evil is about systematically ORGANIZED errant practices and bad choices that assault people's rights and cause un-ending suffering and death throughout the world, as justified for mere profit to a few pathetic criminals ( not even all of the elite ).
Their are now thousands of books and articles about these psychopaths ( see "Snakes in Suits" ), most recently at:
PONEROLOGY.COM
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/191229-Truth-to-Power-Psychopaths-Rule-Our-World
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/191213-Word-gets-around-Twilight-and-the-trick-of-the-psychopaths
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/191308-The-state-is-a-predator-and-we-are-its-prey
BTW, the last time I tried to propagate this information on CD, I soon needed a new scn name and I.P address, and many unrelated posting were purg♂d.
_||_
One more link that might prove useful to those not familiar with the information genre ---- www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath.htm --- this one is the baseline, the starting place for understanding psychopathy and Ponerology.
I wholeheartedly agree. Whenever someone says that so and so is rich, I am much more attentive to character flaws and possible evil traits. The media likes to flip reality on its' head and tend to show poorer people as the ones you assume to be evil or common criminals. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
Thanks for your wise comments.
De nada.
For me, this is the "Holy Grail" issue of missing knowledge, that once found will put humankind back on the incremental evolutionary path to end ALL poverty, famine, war and suffering.
Do a GOOGLE search for "The VENUS project" ( 2nd half part of Zeitgeist II addendum video), which foresees an Earth of balanced resource driven economy ( not debt/profit driven ) where almost all would no longer need to work a "job" due to technological solutions freeing more and more time ( for creative & humane pursuits ).
How appropriate that the ICONIC solution for Sioux Rose's MARS RULES ( & drools ) is THE VENUS PROJECT.
I wish wholeheartedly, that this viral meme ( thought form ) were a form of change that propagated person to person, even faster than they want us to think that pigs can fly(u).
_||_
Very insightful.
I had deciphered the one about food on the family, but I had never noticed that the personification of everything shameful about a fallible human being occupying the single most powerful office in the world was the rich little dry drunk who couldn't say 'shame' and 'me' in the same sentence.
He might as well never have left. I worked for, contributed to Obama's campaign. I voted for Obama. What is he now but a member of the elite ruling class who owes nothing to me or the thousands who contributed to his run, prayed for his victory, and hoped.
He's the most slippery one since Nixon. He knew we needed to hope. He knew we were desperate for hope. "HOPE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN" might as well have been "I'M NOT A CROOK".
Why don't we ALL have another drink. Victory Gin may soon be our only refuge.
de nada
Please see above, and realize that the insight needs desperately to be spread far and wide.
I understand the short term "solution" ( solvent ) of Victory Gin, and honestly believe that those long hidden ( criminally insane BTW ) are now being revealed increasingly to all of us with the eyes to see.
I am very optimistic about the ongoing REVEAL, as essentially it is up to everyone to choose more wisely -- they just need a little knowledge about the real problem, for the solution to become self-evident to EVERYONE ( even them ).
I suggest mandatory EEG scans of all military, politicians, CEO, and bosses -- as a start. Figuring out what to do with all of those sick people, will be a real boot-strapping issue for many years to come. It would also be quite useful for pre-nuptials ( for those woman wishing to avoid likely forms of abuse ).
FOR EXAMPLE: One scientific magazine's editor refused a submitted paper because of a series of associated EEG charts, because he knew that those charts DID NOT represent REAL ( nominal ) PEOPLE. What the editor didn't know, was that those EEGs did correctly and actually represent psychotic individuals … Oh Boy !
People's BS detectors are usually fairly accurate, as evolution has long encouraged facial recognition gestalts and oddly useful and honed gossiping skills, as a survival mechanisms to detect possible evil people hiding in our midst.
Although its often correct to assume the best about anyone we meet, the psychopaths are experts at sneaking beneath our radar screens, manipulating our own sense of pity for those "different" from us -- and being predominantly of superior intelligence, elite offspring ( inbreeding ), and charismatic -- they are usually on easy street from day one.
These are unrepentant unchangeable ( hard wired ) reptile-like individuals, when compared to the rest of humankind -- although some 12% are converts that condition themselves to fit into the mold of psychopaths ( and may therefore be able to reverse the programming ).
It is the 6 % totally shameless psychopaths that are the real bane of all of humankind, AND they really think that we should just ignore them and let them do their thing ( making us erroneously think that we are the problem and that original sin is VERY MUCH alive today in every man, woman and child )
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THE USA system and model is like a Body Full of Boils and Cancerous growths inside and outside........
and as they continue to spread and grow some more -- the USA "model" dictates that one APPLIES MAKE-UP
to cover them up. ...and the USA model Dictates that one LOOKS at the MIRROR and say:
"WOW you look beaaaauuuuutiful, everyone oughta love ya , you beautiful American!!".
That's the problem exactly. A nation full of fat ladies in make-up, high-heels, spray tans and plastic hair wonders why it can't get any action. Fat old men with bad teeth on motorcycles thinking they are somehow impressing somebody.
The old Grim's fairy tales have more to them than the first glance tells. Old truth in those tales.
Mirror, mirror on the wall.
Anyone who looks to the US for guidance on economic issues is nuts. Essentially, everything that's offered as solutions in the article would require even more of what's causing the world's problems: Debt. It's an experiment that's been going on in every country and the entire world economy for a century. It takes a long time for something like this to play out but we could be coming to the final collapse. Some will argue we are all in this together, so all this government and private debt doesn't matter what matters as economists like Krugman argue is that we keep that mad consumption machine going and debt be damned and throw the financially prudent savers to the fires. A friend of mine who was buying at the peak of the market a several hundred thousand dollar condo, which should have been priced less than six figures in a sane economy told me, when I questioned the wisdom of such a decision that he's not worried because whatever happened everyone is doing it and we are all in this together. Well, that turned out to not be true, fiscally sound practices and good judgement in economic matters are important even in this Fed manipulated, Krugman cheerleading, debt mad world. And perhaps it will come soon that we find it does matter that every economy in the world has been spending far far beyond their means. And that will be the greatest myth of the world economy finally biting the dust.