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'Christians' Wink at Torture
Anyone harboring doubts that the institutional Church is riding shotgun for the system, even regarding heinous sin like torture, should be chastened by the results of a recent survey by the Pew Research Center.
Who but the cowardly crew leading the "Christian" churches can be held responsible for the fact that many of their flock believe torture of suspected terrorists is "justified?"
Those polled were white non-Hispanic Catholics, white Evangelicals, and white mainline Protestants. A majority (54 percent) of those who attend church regularly said torture could be "justified," while a majority of those not attending church regularly responded that torture was rarely or never justified.
I am not a psychologist or sociologist. But I recall that one of the first things Hitler did on assuming power was to ensure there was a pastor in every Lutheran and Catholic parish in Germany. Why? Because he calculated, correctly, that this would be a force for stability for his regime. Thus began horrid chapter in the history of those who profess to be followers of Jesus of Nazareth but forget his repeated admonition, Do not be afraid.
A mere seven decades after the utter failure of most church leaders in Germany, their current American counterparts have again yielded to fear, and have condoned evils like torture by their deafening silence.
What kinds of folks comprise this 54 percent? An informal "survey" of my friends suggests these are "my-country-first" people - like the fellow who recently gave me the finger when he saw my bumper sticker, which simply says "God bless the rest of the world too."
They are people accustomed to hierarchy and comfortable being told what they should think and do to preserve "our way of life." They place a premium on nationalism, which they call patriotism, and on what the Germans call Ordnung. I suppose that this may be part of why they go to church regularly.
It's a problem that has existed for almost 1,700 years, ever since 4th Century Christians jettisoned their heritage of non-violent resistance to war and threw in their lot with Constantine.
Subservience
Nowhere is the phenomenon of obeisance to hierarchical power highlighted more clearly than in the Grand Inquisitor story in Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoevsky, who could plum the human heart as few others.
In the tale, Dostoevsky has Jesus joining the "tortured, suffering people" of Seville during the Inquisition. The Cardinal of Seville immediately jails and interrogates Jesus, telling him that the Church has "corrected" his big mistake. Rather than donning "Caesar's purple," Jesus gave us freedom of conscience.
While it has been 130 years since he wrote Brothers Karamazov, Dostoevsky captures the trap into which so many American "believers" have fallen in forfeiting freedom through fear. His portrayal of Inquisition reality brings us to the brink of the moral precipice on which our country teeters today. It is as though he knew what would be in store for us when fear was artificially stoked after the attacks of 9/11.
Here is how the cardinal ridicules Christ for imposing on humans the heavy burden of freedom of conscience:
"Didst thou forget that man prefers peace, and even death, to freedom of choice in the knowledge of good and evil? ... We teach them that it's not the free judgment of their hearts, but mystery, which they must follow blindly, even against their conscience. ... In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet [and] become obedient. ... We shall tell them that we are Thy servants and rule them in Thy name. ... We shall tell them that every sin will be expiated if it is done with our permission."
Recently, prominent Baptist layman and distinguished senator from South Carolina, Lindsey Graham, gave a gratuitous hat-tip to the Inquisition. At a May 13 Senate hearing discussing interrogation techniques like waterboarding, Graham explained that, "One of the reasons these techniques have been used for about 500 years is that they work."
I was reminded of one of the things Gandhi said about Christians: "Everyone in the world knows that Jesus and his teachings were non-violent except Christians."
And the reason that regular churchgoers don't seem to know this is because the historical Jesus is not preached.
My guess is that those who go to church on Sunday expect a modicum of moral leadership. If the pastor is silent on torture, then torture must somehow be okay. How easy it is then to cede one's conscience to an American-flag-draped pulpit.
Jesus (and Luther) Didn't Really Mean It?
A progressive Lutheran pastor in Dallas asked me recently to give a talk to his parish on the issues I had been addressing in my writings. It struck me that since George W. Bush had moved into their neighborhood, I might ask the congregants how they thought they should relate to someone who had given written approval to torture.
I was too clever by half - naïve, actually. I would show them the "smoking gun" memorandum signed by George W. Bush on Feb. 7, 2002, which the Senate Armed Forces Committee has determined "opened the door" to all manner of detainee abuse, and then I would challenge them by quoting Martin Luther who, after all, was one of their own.
I chose the following passage, which is cited by George Hunsinger in an essay he wrote in 1987 (appearing in his book Disruptive Grace):
"If," wrote Martin Luther, "I profess with the loudest voice and clearest exposition every portion of the truth of Gods except precisely that little point which the world and the devil are at the moment attacking, I am not confessing Christ, however boldly I may be professing him. Where the battle rages, there the loyalty of the soldier is proved and to be steady on all the battlefield, except there, is mere flight and disgrace if one flinches at that point."
Hunsinger emphasizes that faithfulness to Jesus of Nazareth is always situational, that one can spout impeccably orthodox theological truths and still be "fatally disloyal." Genuine loyalty is proven where it counts - in the pitch of battle, where it really costs something. Writing 22 years ago, Hunsinger was already addressing what he called "an overwhelming spiritual collapse, in which we have lost touch with even minimal standards of morality:"
"The prevailing sense seems to be that, if the demands of biblical morality contradict the dictates of national security, so much the worse for biblical morality. ... Dungeons ... torture, and death are described as belonging to the free world. ... War criminals in high places we honor. ... Acts of aggression we celebrate as noble deeds. ... of preemptive self-defense. Orwell has become our destiny. ...
"The passive acquiescence of a Christian community which has lost its moral conscience in matters of state contributes substantially ... to misery and oppression. ... ‘Seek your own welfare above all else' has become the maxim of the day."
Hunsinger has earned the right to criticize those who confess Jesus of Nazareth "from the safety of some remote enclave, where confession may be true but costs nothing." He is professor of systematic theology at Princeton Theological Seminary, but was so aghast at U.S. practice of torture that he devoted untold time and energy to founding the National Religious Campaign Against Torture (NRCAT).
Luther Not Popular in Dallas
I suggested to the gathering of Lutherans that Dallas, where the "decider" on torture is now their neighbor, might be where the battle rages for them. I had very few takers.
"But he kept us safe ... isn't it better to fight the terrorists over there than to fight them here?"
There was little appetite for listening to THAT Luther in that Lutheran church. The pastor shared with me later that he had encountered all manner of criticism for having invited someone "disrespectful" of George W. Bush.
Despite the turbulence I caused, the pastor thanked me for coming, but noted that "torture is not high on anyone's agenda." In a brief thank-you note he wrote, "I believe that if the full scope of the nation's use of torture comes to light, there may be need for churches to propose confession and repentance, as a positive witness for the rest of the world."
Presbyterians: To their credit, the Presbyterians have been more outspoken - some of them at least.
In 2006, the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) called on Congress to convene an independent investigative body to establish responsibility for the abuse of detainees and, if appropriate, to recommend the appointment of a special prosecutor.
The clerk of the General Assembly followed up on April 23, 2009, with an appeal to President Barack Obama to work with Congress to establish a non-partisan Commission of Inquiry to bring "an understanding of what happened, how it happened, and who was accountable," adding,
"If those responsible are not held accountable, nothing beyond wishful thinking and admonitions exists to compel future leaders to resist the temptation to torture in times of fear or threat."
Good for the Presbyterians, I thought. It was the perfect lead-in to my Sunday evening talk to a Dallas area Presbyterian congregation. I complimented the assembled on the gutsy appeal by the clerk of their General Assembly on April 23; I found myself looking out at blank and quizzical stares.
This congregation was no exception to the general rule that courageous statements at high official levels do not find their way into Sunday sermons, much less parish workshops. A disappointment, but hardly a surprise.
Methodists: The United Methodist General Board of Churches and Society, acknowledging the results of the Pew survey, is also supporting an independent inquiry into torture.
Top executive Jim Winkler has been very direct: "Shame, shame, shame on any Christian who could imagine there is any justification of torture against another human being. I cannot conceive in my wildest dreams of Jesus Christ giving any blessing to torture."
It is another question, of course, as to whether the findings of Pew reach the pews.
As for the Dallas Methodists, Southern Methodist University has shown itself eager to host George W. Bush's presidential library and an independent institute to sponsor programs to "promote the vision of the president and celebrate" his presidency.
The protests of thousands of Methodists, including prominent alumni of SMU's School of Theology pointing to the policy of torture, fell on the deaf ears of the Methodist bishops and trustees who blessed the enterprise.
Catholics: Sadly, the U.S. Catholic bishops cannot find their voice on torture. This is history repeating itself, for Hamlet-like Pope Pius XII kept trying to make up his mind on whether he should put the Church at some risk in Germany, while Jews and other minorities were been tortured and murdered.
In 1948, the French author/philosopher Albert Camus was invited to address a Dominican monastery; the friars wanted to know what an "unbeliever" thought about Christians in the light of their behavior during the 30s and 40s. Camus rose to the occasion with these words:
"For a long time during those frightful years I waited for a great voice to speak up in Rome. I, an unbeliever? Precisely. For I knew that the spirit would be lost if it did not utter a cry of condemnation. ...
"It has been explained to me since that the condemnation was indeed voiced. But that it was in the style of encyclicals, which is not all that clear. The condemnation was voiced and it was not understood. Who could fail to see where the fault lies in this case?
"Christians should voice their condemnation loud and clear, in such a way that never a doubt, never the slightest doubt, could rise in the heart of the simplest person. ... They should get away from abstraction and confront the blood-stained face history has taken on today."
And today? True to form, laudable statements and papers have been produced and placed in in-boxes in the bowels of the bishops' bureaucracy, but they rarely find their way in any form to the pulpit on Sunday.
I am a Catholic, and initially was happy to find, by a search of the bishops' Web site that there is a Catholic Study Guide titled "Torture is a Moral Issue." It was developed in collaboration with the National Religious Campaign Against Torture, the group Professor Hunsinger founded.
This was news to me. Had any of my Catholic friends heard of this? The answer from a representative sampling, including progressive parishes, was No, not one. So I called the bishops' staff to inquire as to why the study guide on torture had not been published and made available to pastors to use in their preaching or in workshops.
I was told that it was "not designed as a publication, because there was uncertainty as to how much demand there would be for such a study." A publishing run would not be cost effective unless it produced at least a thousand copies and this particular subject matter might not warrant that kind of run. (There are some 70 million Catholics in this land.)
As for Pope Benedict XVI, he arrived here in Washington in April 2008, a week after media reports that the most senior officials of the Bush administration had met regularly at the White House to plan which torture techniques might be most appropriate for which high-value detainees. He said nothing.
All the more strange, it would seem, since Jesus of Nazareth, after all, was tortured to death. If the pope had an opinion on torture, he kept it to himself.
Mormons: What about the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints?
My small random sampling of the information available shows a strong propensity among Mormons toward Dostoevsky's caricature of a strong, top-down authoritative church, but with the notable exception of at least one person who could, and did, think for herself - to her own peril.
The most prominent Mormon with torture connections is Jay Bybee, a devout Mormon with undergraduate and law degrees from Mormon-owned Brigham Young University.
As leader of the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel in August 2002, Bybee approved a memorandum indicating that interrogators could apply virtually any harsh techniques, so long as the pain involved was less than that accompanying "serious physical injury, such as organ failure, impairment of bodily function, or death." In my view, his memorandum must surely be the most shameful text ever to appear beneath Department of Justice letterhead. It was among the memorandums released by President Obama in mid-April, over the strong objections of many top officials.
A lively debate rages among Mormon lawyers over the morality of Bybee's approval of harsh interrogation techniques. Dan Burke, a law professor at the University of Minnesota, was incensed to learn that a fellow Mormon could justify such actions. "I cannot believe that the practice of torture is acceptable to anyone who claims to be a disciple of Jesus Christ," said Burk.
Not so fast, say other Mormon lawyers - David Wenger of New York, for example.
"I would personally be uncomfortable writing a memo on how the administration could legally justify torture of people, but I don't think it's against the tenets of our faith," Wenger told the Salt Lake Tribune. "One might believe that the value of ready access to torture-obtained intelligence outweighed the negative," said Wenger.
Yet another Mormon, a woman Army specialist named Alyssa Peterson, was clear on the morality of torture. She adamantly refused to take part in applying torture techniques approved by Bybee.
She walked away from an interrogation in the "cage," where Iraqis were stripped naked in front of female soldiers, mocked and burned with cigarettes. Three days later, on Sept. 15, 2003, Peterson was found dead of a gunshot wound at Tal Afar base in Iraq. The Army said her death was a suicide.
It gets worse. The two faux-psychologists to whom CIA leaders turned to show them how to torture, James Elmer Mitchell and Bruce Jessen, are both Mormons. They are still widely referred to by other U.S. interrogators as the "Mormon mafia."
Add to the mix Robert Walpole, the CIA analyst who wove out of whole cloth what has been referred to as "The Whore of Babylon" - the worst National Intelligence Estimate in the history of U.S. intelligence. "Iraq's Continuing Programs for Weapons of Mass Destruction" dated Oct. 1, 2002, was a deliberate - and successful - attempt to deceive Congress into authorizing war on Iraq.
In his memoir, At the Center of the Storm, former CIA Director George (slam-dunk) Tenet praises Walpole as a "brilliant analyst." In a transparent attempt to defend Walpole against charges of being "hell bent on war," Tenet insists that Walpole is "one of the most unlikely people to be accused of being a war hawk."
Tenet notes that Walpole did not think an attack on Iraq justifiable - and Tenet makes a point of adding that Walpole is a Mormon bishop. Did Tenet think that that should do it as far as credibility was concerned? In the end, of course, Walpole did what he was told in managing the production of the Estimate that paved the way to war.
I know there are many Mormons besides Alyssa Peterson with integrity. It remains a mystery to me why so many of the ones who gain prominence seem to lose their sense of right and wrong when they are asked by hierarchical authority to do things they know are wrong.
In sum, with respect to the Christian churches I believe author Chris Hedges portrays the situation neatly, if sadly:
"The utter failure of nearly all our religious institutions - whose texts are unequivocal about murder - to address the essence of war has rendered them useless. These institutions have little or nothing to say in wartime because the god they worship is a false god, one that promises victory to those who obey the law and believe in the manifest destiny of the nation."
The Good News
Who would have thought we would have to turn to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to carry the moral ball on torture.
Adm. Mike Mullen has called his commanders on the carpet. He is reliably reported to have been so "appalled" and "disgusted" after viewing some of the abuse photos being kept under wraps by the Obama administration that he warned senior military officers on July 10: "We haven't all absorbed or applied all the lessons of Abu Ghraib."
Mullen ordered that more be done to halt detainee abuse. He is quoted as saying, "We're better than this; and now we have to show it."
Hopefully, Adm. Mullen will stay around long enough to start a thorough clean-up of the torture mess - at least in the military. He has acted responsibly and with integrity on a number of issues; the country is lucky to have him in that very senior post. For it is clear that, as long as demagogues keep insisting that we are "at war" with global terrorists, all manner of abuse can be heaped on "the enemy."
It's always the same "during wartime." Here's what one widely admired U.S. general had to say about the German enemy during WWII. It is an attitude about which we must be aware, so that we can guard against it:
"My God, I actually pity those poor bastards we're going up against," said General George Patton. "We're not just going to shoot the bastards, we're going to cut out their living guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. ...
"Don't worry; I can assure you that you'll do your duty. The Nazis are the enemy. Wade into them. Spill their blood. Shoot them in the belly. When you put your hand into a bunch of goo that a moment before was your best friend's face, you'll know what to do."
Waiting for the Church?
Don't. Don't wait for the churches to speak out against such violence. We have seen enough of their vacillation to know that for us this would be a cop-out.
Sad to say, the same challenge facing Salvadoran Archbishop Oscar Romero before he was assassinated faces us. And we must have the courage and honesty to act, like him, in placing ourselves where the battle rages:
"A church that doesn't provoke any crisis, a gospel that doesn't unsettle, a word of God that doesn't get under anyone's skin, a word of God that doesn't touch the real sin of the society in which it is being proclaimed, what kind of gospel is that?"
We cannot avoid the challenge; it is up to us. We have to supply what is lacking in the institutional church.
There is hope. As St. Augustine pointed out 1,600 years ago:
"Hope has two children. The first is anger at the way things are. The second is courage to do something about it."
With those two, well, I think we can. Yes we can.
116 Comments so far
Show AllShut these propagander churches down. Send them all to Fox T.V. propagander ststion.
In their zeal to rule America, right wing Christians made a deal with the devil in the form of Dubya, Cheney, & Co. Like any deal with the devil, the Faustian bargain made has unexpected consequences and usually winds up being a bad thing in the long run.
It's a popular stance to take and resonates with much of the public. The "get tough, show 'em what what and who's boss" attitude feels good to a lot of people. They're scared and someone presents what seems like a way of conquering those who scare them, and the "Yeah! You tell 'em" reaction comes up from their psyche and they don't feel so vulnerable.
I don't know how to counter it. Rachel Maddow does a pretty good job, but the points she raises and the counterpropaganda she puts out doesn't break out of her audience. I wish people would stop worrying so much about Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin. Whenever progressive bloggers hear something they say and go into a twitter-fit of "how dare he or she" outrage, to me that only seems to get them more publicity and spread their b.s. further and faster.
I've had small successes in one-on-one conversations with people by NOT arguing, byy seeing their point, by taking the "I can see how that idea might appeal to you, and I understand, but here's what my experience tells me . . ." approach. But I don't know how to take that to the rest of the world. I don't have a media soapbox (excuse put-upon self pity burst). Even my posts here don't draw all that much comment and forwarding.
We need to put better, more exciting ideas out there. I don't have those ideas, but would sure hope they're out there somewhere brewing in someone's progressive brain.
Very nice comment. It is the compassion your words flow out of that will melt ignorance. the words are secondary yet when carefully chosen to reflect your interior, will keep the listener in stillness long enough to receive the transmission of unity.
Thanks. It has been my experience that angrily arguing with people only causes them to get defensive and hold even more tightly to the position they've taken.
But St. Augustine also said this in a letter written by the Bishop of Hippo to the Roman tribune Mercellinus, who had asked why and how acts of war could be reconciled with expressions of Christian piety:
"These precepts concerning patience ought to be always retained in the habitual discipline of the heart, and the benevolence which prevents the recompensing of evil for evil must be always fully cherished in the disposition. At the same time, many things must be done in correcting with a certain benevolent severity, even against their own wishes, men whose welfare rather than their wishes it is our duty to consult and the Christian Scriptures have most unambiguously commended this virtue in a magistrate. For in the correction of a son, even with some sternness, there is assuredly no diminution of a father’s love; yet, in the correction, that is done which is received with reluctance and pain by one whom it seems necessary to heal by pain. And on this principle, if the commonwealth observe the precepts of the Christian religion, even its wars themselves will not be carried on without the benevolent design that, after the resisting nations have been conquered, provision may be more easily made for enjoying in peace the mutual bond of piety and justice. For the person from whom is taken away the freedom which he abuses in doing wrong is vanquished with benefit to himself; since nothing is more truly a misfortune than that good fortune of offenders, by which pernicious impunity is maintained, and the evil disposition, like an enemy within the man, is strengthened. But the perverse and froward hearts of men think human affairs are prosperous when men are concerned about magnificent mansions, and indifferent to the ruin of souls; when mighty theaters are built up, and the foundations of virtue are undermined; when the madness of extravagance is highly esteemed, and works of mercy are scorned; when, out of the wealth and affluence of rich men, luxurious provision is made for actors, and the poor are grudged the necessaries of life; when that God who, by the public declarations of His doctrine, protests against public vice, is blasphemed by impious communities, which demand gods of such character that even those theatrical representations which bring disgrace to both body and soul are fitly performed in honor of them. If God permit these things to prevail, He is in that permission showing more grievous displeasure: if He leave these crimes unpunished, such impunity is a more terrible judgment. When, on the other hand, He overthrows the props of vice, and reduces to poverty those lusts which were nursed by plenty, He afflicts in mercy. And in mercy, also, if such a thing were possible, even wars might be waged by the good, in order that, by bringing under the yoke the unbridled lusts of men, those vices might be abolished which ought, under a just government, to be either extirpated or suppressed."
(republished by Lapham's Quarterly, States of War, Winter 2008, http://www.laphamsquarterly.org/voices-in-time/st-augustine-classifies-war-as-an-act-of-benevolent-curiosity.php)
Ray Berthiaume
Good ole Augustine, the bishop who gave us "original sin." That clarified the "us vs them" categories. We - the redeemed, washed by the waters of baptism from original sin - had to convince the sinners of their evil ways, one way or another. As violence was justified to discipline an unruly child, so violence was justified to correct unruly populations. Hence capital punishment, the Crusades, the Inquisition and excommunications. And the beat goes on.
Augustine had so many personal problems and inner conflicts that he is hardly a reliable interpretater of anything. All you get is his own struggles with himself.
If we add to that the fact that he was writing for an audience 700 years ago, he might as well be speaking absolute nonsense to modern ears.
WWJT - Who would Jesus torture?
Um, no one. That's why he was persecuted. :.(
I wasn't taking a swipe at Jesus, I was just mocking these holier than thou types that would misuse his name to justify their atrocities.
Oh, no problem. I knew you weren't taking a swipe. I just got reminded of what happened to Jesus and how his persecution was misused by the fundies to spoil Christianity.
Jennifer: Some Old Testament prophets did fight in battle.
I personally believe that Christ had a unique mission, but he also did not have any political power--so the issue of Christ picking up the sword was out of the question. But after Christians did get political power, that's when the killing began...
That is true. A religion gone bad based on the persecution of a loving man. At least that's what I always feared. Thanks for the info.
Well, if you listen to the sermons of the churches listed in the article...
Jesus would torture the people who join the other churches, the homosexuals, the adulterers, the liars, the fornicators, the blasphemers, the nonbelievers, the muslims, jews, hindus, budhists, etc. in a lake of fire after they die. Eternal torment for those who don't confess that Jesus is Lord.
The surprise is not that so many approved the use of torture, but that any of them opposed it at all.
Well said Saturnalia,
The misconception of who biblical figures like Jesus were is really something. Much of the Canonized King James bible was riddled with omissions and errors. The fury over the dead sea scrolls was that the established religions did not want their flocks to know about all these scriptural errors as compared to the source of Ancient Hebrew, Cather, and Sumerian texts.
1. Jesus was married. He apparently had brothers and sisters who went around preaching also and trying to heal people. His mother Mary apparently had children before him. His hooker girl friend Mary Magnolen had a book called the gospel of Mary, but the European priests deemed it too controversial to include it in the bible. Source: "Banned from the Bible" on the discovery channel.
2. Jesus was in a competition for the hearts and minds of the region with the old order of priests of the temple. They were incensed that he dared to fulfill the old prophesy of a messiah riding a burro through the old east gate. His act was a direct challenge to the authority of the Roman controlled religion of the day.
3. When Jesus said to "turn the other cheek" he was not advocating a peaceful gesture. In ancient Palestine, when you did this, it was an insult of the highest order meaning: I don't accept that slap, do it again, I dare you. It was as confrontational as riding through the East Gate as the new spokesman for God.
But the monks working for King James apparently knew nothing about that when they mis-translated it from ancient Hebrew to Old English and made it out as a passive guesture.
All religion, is nothing more than evolutionary tribal mechanism. It's a form of control to get all the mindless drones pulling in the same direction usually to the demise of the drones and to the enrichment of one percent of the Church and her holy wars. (Sorta like taxpayers)
All churches have "moneychangers" in the temples. If you don't tithe your coins into the offering plate you can bet that the Deacon or some snitch sitting next to you is going to tell the money-grubbing priest that he overheard your concern about "faith based initiatives" being funneled to today's "freedom fighters"/tomorrow's terrorists.
Things are not going to go well for you in this town from now on. Your job was to sit in a version of "1984" with a shaven head and obediently nod loyally to whatever is mouthed by the Big Brother Leader up on the screen. Torture? Murder? Poison? Treason against the Constitution?
This is what your church is selling. This is what you must accept. Or else you will meet the same tortuous fate as Jesus did.
I like Jesus. He was the progressive leader we need today against the Roman Corporate Monopoly of our time. Jesus was probably one of the first Union Leaders in recorded history (Moses before him.)
Tell your Priest/Preacher that torture is not O.K. with you.
Boycott the offering plate or stay home until the church hypocrisy stops. (which I predict will be never.)
Alas, This is why I despise Christians so. Agnostic/Atheism is a much more honest and peaceful practice of religion. But all wars and revolutions used religion throughout time to delude people into acts of savage cruelty. I mean, every society throughout time has had a religion. Without exception. And there have been thousands of them. Hence my belief, that it is not divine, but that it is a survival mechanism ingrained in all of us.
I am convinced that Man is not as far removed from the tribal jungle as we thought he was. Homo sapiens is an inferior wretched species not destined to escape the laws of Natural Selection from what I can see. (With rare exception like Ralph Nader and Ray Mcgovern.)
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
Here's an interesting passage of the omitted "Book of Thomas the Contender":
Then the savior continued and said, "O unsearchable love of the light! O bitterness of the fire that blazes in the bodies of men and in their marrow, kindling in them night and day, and burning the limbs of men and making their minds become drunk and their souls become deranged... Woe to you, captives, for you are bound in caverns! You laugh! In mad laughter you rejoice! You neither realize your perdition, nor do you reflect on your circumstances, nor have you understood that you dwell in darkness and death! On the contrary, you are drunk with the fire and full of bitterness. Your mind is deranged on account of the burning that is in you, and sweet to you are the poison and the blows of your enemies! And the darkness rose for you like the light, for you surrendered your freedom for servitude! You darkened your hearts and surrendered your thoughts to folly, and you filled your thoughts with the smoke of the fire that is in you! (Book of Thomas the Contender)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Thomas_the_Contender
Woah! Good stuff. Sounds like the suppressed scripture supports the Bill of Rights to me. No wonder King James tore this part up. It might lead to dangerous thinking. It might start a Union.
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
according to Christian Americans...emphasis on the NATIONALIST "christian" (meaning AMERICAN christian is BETTER than any OTHER christian) --
Jesus Christ is supposed to Torture those who "want to take away our freedoms..and destroy OUR way of life..and hate us because of OUR freedoms and way of life"...
OR ELSE - he's NOT really jesus christ....besides --
"what IF jesus knew that his Holy Mother MARY was kidnapped and being TORTURED by those evil folk?....Jesus would HAVE to Torture the terrorists and criminals to give up information in order to SAVE mary his mother"......
Very few so-called Christians can recite even half of the 10 Commandments, that is why they want them posted in so many public places. Very few so-called Christians can give a decent summary of the Sermon on the Mount. So-call Christians do not understand that if Jesus were all-powerful, why didn't He kill His oppressors and prevent His crucifixion? Yet, it is OK to use a drone to kill terrorists, communists, or ordinary women and children riding in a car in some Middle Eastern dessert. If Christ is real, He is probably crying at how Satan is so popular.
sorry - but this is..it's funny . hehe........
========
a group of senior citizens was in a social discussion group..the moderator was giving them a Quiz Game to sharpen their minds, memories, etc:
the question came:
"can anyone name us the TEN commandments from the Bible?"...
so - they started to give the answers, correctly , quickly..etc.
"Thou shalt not steal!!" shouted one man..
"thou shalt not LIE" said another
"thou shalt not KILL!" said another lady
and a man that had his eyes closed...sat up and said loudly:
"THOU shalt not COVET thy Neighbor's WIFE!!"...
this man was a repository of information actually - and also was known to make lewd , very sexually involved passes at his fellow senior citizen ladies.....
hehehe...
==========
here's another:
a little boy was in the back of the family car on the way home from sunday service..and he was moaning and crying ...his dad asked him:
"james...what's wrong back there...why are you crying so much? you sound like you're frightened of something"....
the little boy said: "daddy, mommy....in church....the Pastor said -- that he wants all children to grow up in a Good Christian family.....(whaaa)...."
Father says: "But why should that make you cry, James? what's wrong with what he said?"
James: "BUT i want to STAY with YOU GUYS...waaaahhh"........!!!"
Christians and torture; the yearly ritual of the son of god with thorns placed on his head, forced to carry a heavy wooden cross through the streets as crowds spit and through rocks on him, and upon reaching the top of a hill, stakes are pounded into his feet and hands, he's hoisted up and left to die a slow agonizing death from dehydration and bleeding.
Hanging in the homes and churches of Christians for centuries is the icon of that torturous event, millions have prayed before it. That can't be healthy on the psyche. How is that affecting unconscious imprinting, starting from early childhood.
I object to the misplaced term "torture" here.
All of the scribes of the day noted that Jesus was at worst subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques. His death was surely accidental-- poor nutrition doubtless adversely affected His stamina long before He was arrested. Back then, of course, they didn't have civilian members of the Imperial Nutritionists Association on hand to assess the condition of prisoners, or guide the interrogators to ensure that their actions remained ethical.
And after all, Imperial Rome was fighting the Flatworld War on Terror at the time. As usual, Palestinian terrorists were practicing random violence and establishing cells and cadres in Rome itself! National Security was at stake! No, wait, the stake came later-- I guess I'd have to say "at the crossroads" instead.
Surely no one is suggesting that Rome ought to have discarded the most useful tools in their toolkit just because one rebel egg was broken!
· Yr Obd't Servant
"National Security was at stake!"
I always think of it as Notional Security.
Sioux Rose
The entire context of Christianity, with roots in obedience and authoritarianism resonates naturally with the concept of fear, which is the absence of Love, "the greatest of these" as understood by true saints & evolved mystics. To be a "follower" means one must define his/her position in terms of what (or whom) they leave out. So identifying with a church sect includes a passive perception of "us" versus them from the get-go.
These churches attract persons who like to live by rules and then in twisting themselves (often repressing their true natures in the process), they feel they have the right (if not obligation) to tell others how to live.
The battle over women's reproductive rights is one telling example, for in projecting all basis for goodness and innocence onto the unborn fetuses that these church-goers identify with, they feel self-righteous in determining--through their assent to war--who has the RIGHT to live or die. The paradox of their UNGODly thought process is lost upon them, thanks in large measure to the indoctrination process most have incurred since the cradle.
Just as Blacks see generic White prejudice from a unique vantage point, and the Indigenous bear witness to modern America's foreign policy through their unique vantage point, so, too, do women who have studied feminist literature recognize the degree to which the vast majority has been brainwashed by patriarchal creeds. I use the phrase "Mars rules" because it succinctly defines the central disease of our times, a belief in violence AS God's will. Until this inane fabrication is disabled and deconstructed, there will always be someone wearing some ritualistic cloak claiming to speak for God. And in so-doing picking up his spear and plunging it into someone else. (Now this pattern has escalated to dropping bombs on entire cities merely on the basis of some illusory construct shaped loosely under the rubric of "enemy".)
Jesus said, "By their fruits you shall know them." Anyone who seeks the rationale for killing or torturing another human being is to God what the blackhole is to Light. The many who silently fill those churches that just "go along with the program," even when that program blasphemes the very Teacher the congregations purport to follow are unevolved and unawakened souls. Most are natural followers, but their leaders should (and probably do) know better!
Don't forget that across history those who questioned the church's self-proclaimed Divine authority were either tortured, burned, or exiled. Even today, those who do not cleave to the basic consensus, which as we've followed in important articles on this site tends to be based on 95% fabricated evidence and related data, are punished, silenced, marginalized, spied upon, and if the goal of the Christian theocrats (the ideological cousins to their Islamic counterparts) get their way, these "inconvenient voices" may soon be disappeared. It could happen here. Goddess knows the path has been paved stone by stone through the gutting of significant laws bravely won to support and uphold civil liberties. To the ones who have never dared to taste genuine personal freedom, nor ever had an original thought of their own, such a loss will hardly be missed. To the rest of us, whoa...
When an article like this is added to the ones about the Christian evangelizing of the US air force, or the knowledge that a hired assassin like Eric Prince (owner of Blackwater private army/armed services) is a so-called Christian, added to Bush's intimations about the conflict in Iraq as representative of a Crusades... those dots ought be connected.
KIVALS: Should you tune in, I hope that as you read this you realize that politics and policy are not JUST about economics and the manipulation of "the people" by elites focused on profit. The religious element is not one to be blithely ignored or discounted. For a lot of people it's their raison d'etre.
I almost agree as I myself am what most can describe me as a weak Christian. There are some good Christian churches out there that mean no harm but are under constant societal, economical, and governmental pressure to either go abusive or risk getting divested. Oddly though, in the recent times even some of the most evangelical churches out in rural MO where I go to visit my family now and then have disappeared though that could be because of the ongoing depopulation. I still love Jesus and it's just that I think that some have given the religion such a bad name and have tainted it to the point that I too feel like almost leaving, hence a weak Christian. Then again, every religion has its set of abusers who ruin the good name.
Sioux Rose
JB: I love Jesus and ALL the prophets; however, once a belief becomes a religion and then becomes INSTITUTIONALIZED all of the characteristics of the corporation/hierarchy kick into gear.
By the way, every poster has added profound wisdom to today's thread as of my posting time (2:28). Great work, or rather, thoughts, fellow commondreamers!
My holy teacher, Swami Snatchabanana, taught that religion is like worshiping the peel of the banana. Once the fruit is eaten, he said, let it go, throw away the outer covering, it's no longer useful. But so many just keep worshiping the wrappings and forget the essence.
It's almost like judging a book by its book cover rather than its contents. The bible thumpers do just that and ruin the religion.
and all that thumping has disfigured not only the cover but the few truths contained therein.
Jeevee
Actually, eating banana skins is very healthy provided they are well washed. (Not including the black ends.)
Well put Sioux Rose.
I have long considered Nationalism and Organized Religion as the greatest evils on the planet. Regrettably the US has an excess of both, acting synergistically.
It's actually all very simple. You see, much of the Western world is white and Christian (although some in the Western world are only nominally Christians). Much of the Western world is also racist to some degree. As a result, it would be correct to posit that white people, who are Christians, don't see a problem in bombing the crap out of non-white people.
Regarding institutionalized religion, I think I am correct in noting that Christianity, particularly of the Catholic variety, and Hinduism (because of the caste system) are the most institutionalized religions.
Incidentally, I am not a Christian, but I do respect Christ as the Prince of Peace, possibly even more than most Christians.
Souix Rose, you should be a theologian, not an astrologer. Honestly, you are more aware of the mind of Christ than the vast majority of the U.S. Catholic Bishops.
Sioux Rose
STEPHEN: You are so kind to me, and I am always moved by your devout devotion to your Teacher, Christ. Anyone who studies the works/teachings of Christ (as opposed to much that got adulterated in the Bible) has to be in AWE of a heart and enlightened soul such as His.
What I have sought to seek is a model that does not exclude any belief, but rather finds the path to their integration. As you know, I prefer the teachings of the Mystics and have found a calling to work with what most term Oracle systems to help people make sense of their lives, including the pain that so often accompanies the profound beauty and experiences of love we meet while taking on the corporeal body.
I have attended many types of religious congregation, possibly only lacking exposure to the Muslim rituals and those of the Bahai. I prefer belief systems that do not marginalize women, or disregard the meaning and power of the Divine Feminine.
By the way, I have just contracted someone to update my website, and it will soon have a link to my new book which goes into great depth in articulating the nature of the 12 original human models that flesh is heir/heiress to. Jesus referred to them as his disciples, Moses as his tribes; and I believe they constitute a kind of spiritual DNA... 12 archetypal pathways of experience, part of the holistic universal design for students assigned to Earth School 101. I am really glad you're in my class, Stephen. Wish we could share a milkshake after school!
RE: Church is riding shotgun for the system
At least since the Roman Empire became the Holy Roman Empire, the Church has supported concentrated power. In fact, in the early days of Christianity, the Catholic or "universal" church was hell bent on eliminating its competitors for the soul. The Inquisition, could be regarded as the Church's method to maintain its hegemony. Torture and the Church go way back.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
-Epicurus
Baptist Senator Lindsey Graham: "One of the reasons these techniques have been used for about 500 years is that they work."
Wrong,wrong,wrong. Professional interrogators will disagree. Torture gets confessions and unreliable intelligence. Like a bad map it is worse than no map, and you, sir, have long since lost your moral compass.
Even if in any individual case you were to get a piece of information (that you could probably get easier by non-torture methods), the totality of all tortures results in thousands joining against you that otherwise would not happen. Add to that the destruction to your own humanity and spiritual being.
Torture is like a Ponzi scheme; blowback from your earlier tortures provides a supply of "insurgents" bent on revenge that in turn can be tortured.
Torture is wrong. These churches are evil.
Ray Mcgovern gets it but he's only scratching the surface. Look inside the churches at what actually goes on. I've been to churches where leaders and some of their zealous members would do just about anything include almost torturing their new members into following this or that or else. I didn't like it when my parents and their overzealous religious friends tried to tell me what to believe in and what kind of Christianity was acceptable when I was young. The good news is that usually most churches in the cities aren't so "evangelical" compared to most in the rural areas and some in the suburbs. The bad news is that the more liberal and progressive churches are often targetted by the government especially by IRS. A church that openly declares its fervor for school prayer which often means forcing religion on young students is given tax exempt status while a church that expresses its opposition to torture is far more likely to get audited by the IRS.
To make matters worse, last year Obama was open to expanding on Dubya's faith-based rightwing programs and supporting funding for more Christian bootcamps even though he sort of promised not to. Since that means indoctrinating the ideology that torture is acceptable into young minds, it's no surprise that other nations all over the world will HATE US for years and possibly decades to come. I opposed both Mccain and Obama for their support of torture though each of them supported it differently.
A very interesting and informative article, but it is too bad that Mr. McGovern and any other "concerned" christians (or muslims, jews, hindus...) cannot seem to face the ultimate truths about their churches.
#1. The reliance upon a Male humanlike deity inherently subjugates all other forms of life.
The frat boy clique mentality dominates the vast majority of religions.
#2. Until we see our existence as interconnected and without hierarchical worship of those with a penis (or any other specially selected superficial feature), we are doomed.
#3. Most churches are real estate ventures masquerading as "sacred" spaces. There is no place on this planet which is more sacred than any other. When we hold our garbage dumps and slums in the same esteem as any church, then we might find our way to a better world.
I do not intend to sound bitter, it is just that the distance we need to travel is much, much greater than most people think.
Please stop supporting these inherently corrupt institutions.
Ray McGovern, you are a courageous thinker and a courageous writer. You have the Christian mind of Archbishop Oscar Romero. Thank you for hanging in with Common Dreams. Thank you for a well written critique on the torture hypocrisy of Christianity in America…..and since you mention Chris Hedges, to him as well for his usual “on the nose” essays.
To me, the greatest failure in America is the failure of American Christians to transcend American culture. Christians in America are Americans first because they love capitalism. We do not worship God in America, we worship financial success…..the rest is a massive cover-up. God bless the American lifestyle and screw everyone else! But thank God, there are Christians and non-Christians that think differently, but they are always the few.
It’s all about money, even in church. It is quite a challenge for a pastor… ….. balancing full homilies with full collection baskets. Thus we seldom get honest homilies. We all have bills to pay. We are all on the treadmill of consumer capitalism. That is how the system works. It is all about the system........And that is what the preaching of Jesus Christ was truly all about……and Dorothy Day said it so well …”the dirty rotten system”. Hello out there!!!!
The system is made up of institutions of power, you name them……. financial institutions, corporations like GE and Disney who want to control the press to control how Americans think, the Congress, the Pentagon, marketing corporations, the military, National Security, the CIA (the great protector of Wall Street), etc., etc., .....and the institutional Church.
Institutions care only about one thing, perpetuating their own wealth and power. It is all about group think, being a team player, the rights of capital over all other human rights…… including the rights of the environment. This is why institutions as a whole are ultimately incapable of self-critique. Expand or you die…..more and more acquisitions, …greater and greater market share. . ..So in time they get too big, …they go blind, ….and sometimes fall off a cliff. In corporate institutions, there is no room for diligent moral scrutiny.
The answer? More and more democracy, ….but presently there is no true democracy in America. Corporate America hates democracy. That is a whole other subject, the No. 1 subject, and it is seldom covered by articles on Common Dreams
The original torture comes from self hatred based on the intellect seeing it self as separate from it's own source. The belief that the expressed or manifested aspects of consciousness appear in isolation from the whole sets off an unending stream of rationalizations to support the lie that the physical entity can exist outside infinite consciousness , while simultaneously yearning for the realization of being. So ,If i can't be free of my own lies then ill torture or eliminate those that are viewed as obstacles to my freedom.
The Abrahamic religions are basically 'slave' religions designed for, and appealing to, those with a slave mentality. Is it any wonder that so many of their practioners act so willingly to follow orders - notwithstanding their 'beliefs' and often in contradiction to their professed 'beliefs' - then re-interpret those beliefs to justify their actions?
A few billboards in my area display only the following about one of the local churchs: "Believe and Obey". I think that says it all.
This torture is for torture's sake. Those that condone it are guilty of torturing their fellow man. Now there is no one 'without sin' to cast the first stone at govermental Satanism. This is our Biblical legacy.
Well, I guess I won't be purchasing the "God bless the rest of the world, too" bumper sticker to replace the "1 20 09 End of an error and Obama/Biden" stickers.
"A mere seven decades after the utter failure of most church leaders in Germany, their current American counterparts have again yielded to fear, and have condoned evils like torture by their deafening silence."
I question whether the reason most Christians condone torture and, let's face it, murdering a lot of people is because they are afraid. I think they are fat and bloated from feeding on too many feel good sermons. Instead of being afraid,they have a pretty good self-satisfied barrier built around themselves to protect them from having to really think and actually make a stand. Like other Americans they feel privileged. It's easy to turn your back on torturing when you don't really see foreigners as being as privileged or chosen as you are.
Before the US declared war on Iraq, the church I attended (a Liberal Protestant one) hosted Sunday afternoon prayer meetings. The Presbyterian, Reformed, Lutheran and Methodist churches were invited. There was a little singing and members got up and read quotes about Peace, etc. I suggested inviting the people from the local Buddhist temple. Needless to say, that didn't go over too well. We waffled on for a number of weeks, a motley crew. And then the war was declared and the prayer meeting ended??? I just didn't get it. One would think that was even more reason to still meet.
I don't attend church anymore, but am still aghast that there is so little heard from Christians about any social issues. The ones we hear too much from are the right wing fundamentists. But they are on a mission. Like I said, mainline Christians are bloated with self-satisfaction. Fat and (NOT) sassy. Sassy can be good.
The Pew Research Center polled some people back around the time of Christ. They polled high ranking priests and other religious hobnobbers and some regular people. Their poll consisted of having a man, pretending to be wounded, on the side of the road, attacked by robbers, stripped and left to die. They kept count of who would stop to help and who would turn their head away, cross the road to avoid seeing the man, etc. Well, surprise!--- the poll came out the same then as now. The religious people walked on by and the Samaritan stopped and cared for the man. Jesus tells the story of the good Samaritan as an answer to the question, "Who is my neighbor?" Most people are probably unaware of just how much the Samaritan did for this stranger.
On second thought, I think I'm going out to get that "Bless the rest of the world, too" bumper sticker.
Bring America Back !!!!
**Christians wink at Torture just like former CIA writers wink at the mother of all attacks on the USA==9/11 !!
**The Torture program was meant to create 'Patsys', fall guys to take the blame for masterminding that 'job' ! Torture and Rendition, and the detainee program did exactly as they were intended====waterboarded and tortured detainees who now proudly proclain their "masterminding", and who beg for hero martyrdom as their final reward !
**Why do they need Patsys ?? They knew Boogieman bin Laden could not be blamed ad infinatum, and could not hold the US official 'party line'. We, as a nation, found that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, the FBI announced no evidence connects bin Laden to 9/11, and bin Laden is on record as denying any involvements !! Ergo, the need for Patsys. As a former intel "Pro", it looks like Ray McGovern wouldn't know the Truth if it winked at him in Church !
**But, Ray McGovern does as mainstream media does, distract and unfocus attention to the innate horror of the big "T".
Let us all try to forget who the occupants of Building #7,
World Trade Center, were up to 9/11 ! All the usual suspects were there, plus some juicy others.
CIA and Secret Service regional offices sound familiar ?
Mr McGovern. Building magically collapses into its own
construction footprint @ 5:30pm, 9/11/01===destroying the contents and evidence.
Why does McGovern need this religious encyclopedia, when Christians are Expert at Torture--having been burned at the stake, fed to the Lions, and crucified along the Appian Way !
If this is Dis-information and distraction, then there is not much hope for McGovern, or his Sanity !
Let us hope Christians who know the Truth of 9/11 and it's direct connect to Torture, will come out and blow the whistle on the real Conspirators of 9/11 in the Intelligence Network. Trust me, waterboarded patsy detainees ain't.
Let us Pray !
one of MY favorite "christian" news sources is CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR...they publish articles that appear HERE , in alternet, truthout, Guardian.UK, articles and documents by OXFAM (and international , highly respected non-profit that tries very hard to work with the oppressed and less fortunate around the world - I dream of making a living working for them, hehe)...
I was at first skeptical when I saw the website "CHRISTIAN"
but then reading more closely - they are very sincere in their coverage ...and are as critical of "christians" that behave in a very Unchristlike way as any. they always publish articles on social and economic justice.
I also recommend that website..although I have long considered myself no longer really a "believer" the older I grow..
TruthKnoller August 1st, 2009 3:07 pm...Praying may help...it cannot hurt, but, while we are at it, let's do our best to support NYC CAN. Did you know their 70,000 signatures were deemed invalid by some darn clerk in NYC?
Incidentally, here's a new report from Sibel (one BRAVE woman)...regarding OBL's working with/for the CIA right up to 9/11.
http://lukery.blogspot.com/2009/07/
07/bombshell-bin-laden-worked-for-us-till.html
"A majority (54 percent) of those who attend church regularly said torture could be "justified..."
And their favorite movie? "The Passion of the Christ," two hours of Jesus being tortured to death.
Romans torturing a Jew - where does that fall on the justification continuum?
Are no American churches Christian, then?
Ray, did you check with the Quakers? They've had some good takes on this kind of thing in the past.
I can appreciate all these non-ecumenical posts, but part of what I have admired about mundane and worldly Christianity is its capacity for or semblance of community - something folks like myself who see the flashing lights and feel the heaving sands without a firm eidos do not often manage.
Christianity teaches not to fear death!
But! They are so scared of death they believe anything!
there are variations on that "scared christian (so-called) nation" theme:
"american christian nation is so scared of those horrible, terrible foreigners that will STEAL the american way of life from us if you LET THEM...that christian nation america is FORCED to PROTECT itself by HIRING volunteer standing army to go abroad and BOMB those MONSTERS hiding under the bed...and who knows how many more FEARSOME DEVILISH gremlins they have been PLANTING in AMERICAN SOIL that was BLESSED BY GOD"....
oh goody!!
according to americans, apparently - by the what is reflected in what americans will SUPPORT and/or tolerate in the USA's policies ,
"those FOREIGNERS are SUCH a threat to the american way of life that they have to be STOPPED before they get away with anything like ...uh.......whatever....but it's FOREIGN -- so it's NOT GOOD for america - coz it's communist and GODLESS, or socialist and they will take away OUR CHOICES and FREEDOMS, and good LORD - they'll even FORCE us to have SINGLE PAYER health care and NOT WORRY anymore about our coverage.....or they're just people from the DARK CONTINENT, or they won't even SPEAK ENGLISH just because they're from south america and they have these STRANGE habits of mixing their CATHOLIC upbringing with their NATIVE South american beliefs (how gross!!!) , and those russians and Iranians -- how can they even THINK of thinking that all that GAS and OIL in their wells is THEIRS to sell?!!!..........all THEY ever do is make cars that run on 25 Miles per gallon while WE make cars that run on 26 miles per gallon!!! and they're not even CHRISTIAN like US , for GOD's SAKE -- they were NEVER BLESSED!!!..but they're so UPPITY...who knows...the way they behave ........just like those CHINESE who can't really be TRUSTED......who knows -- maybe they're NOT even related to Homo-sapiens like WE are!!...just LISTEN to their language -- they're UP TO NO GOOD.....and always try to SCHEME and PLAN to TAKE OVER AMERICA and turn US into GODLESS communists".