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Mocking Constitutional Rights
On the third day of the Republican National Convention, GOP vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin mocked Barack Obama for believing that individuals accused of terrorism actually have rights under the law.
"Al-Qaeda terrorists still plot to inflict catastrophic harm on America," Palin said, "and he's worried that someone won't read them their rights."
The implication was that those suspected of being terrorists have no rights under domestic or international law. The line elicited thunderous approval from the party faithful gathered in St. Paul, Minnesota.
As the GOP delegates cheered, civil libertarians were reminded of the contempt that the Bush administration has shown to basic legal principles in its prosecution of the "war on terror," and the resounding approval these policies have gotten from the Republican Party as a whole.
Perhaps viewers at home even nodded in agreement when thinking of the "catastrophic harm" that some individuals would like to inflict on America, and how important it is to keep America safe at all costs.
But just outside the convention hall, police offered a stark reminder of how important those rights are, especially considering how broadly the term "terrorism" can be applied to just about anyone who speaks out against government policies.
Over several days of the convention, primarily peaceful Americans protesting the war in Iraq and the broader Republican agenda were targeted by aggressive police decked out in full riot gear and armed with Tasers, pepper spray, rubber bullets and tear gas.
An activist convergence center was raided, as were the homes of several protest organizers, and demonstrators were attacked, manhandled and arrested. [See Consortiumnews.com's "Storm Troopers at the RNC."]
In the jails, protesters were mistreated and even tortured, some claim.
A 19-year-old protester named Elliot Hughes alleged at a press conference that he had been beaten unconscious by police, who then banged his head against the floor to wake him up. They then moved him to a separate cell where they put a hood over his head with a gag and used pain-compliance holds on him for about an hour and a half.
His injuries were severe enough that he checked himself into a hospital after being released from jail.
Journalists Arrested
Several independent journalists were also arrested and manhandled, including Pacifica's Amy Goodman, the host of "Democracy Now!"
As Goodman describes what happened to her and two of her colleagues, "I was at the Xcel Center on the convention floor, interviewing delegates. I had just made it to the Minnesota delegation when I got a call on my cell phone with news that Sharif (Abdel Kouddous) and Nicole (Salazar) were being bloody arrested, in every sense.
"Filmmaker Rick Rowley of Big Noise Films and I raced on foot to the scene. Out of breath, we arrived at the parking lot. I went up to the line of riot police and asked to speak to a commanding officer, saying that they had arrested accredited journalists.
"Within seconds, they grabbed me, pulled me behind the police line and forcibly twisted my arms behind my back and handcuffed me, the rigid plastic cuffs digging into my wrists. I saw Sharif, his arm bloody, his credentials hanging from his neck.
"I repeated we were accredited journalists, whereupon a Secret Service agent came over and ripped my convention credential from my neck. I was taken to the St. Paul police garage where cages were set up for protesters. I was charged with obstruction of a peace officer. Nicole and Sharif were taken to jail, facing riot charges."
While what happened to Amy Goodman was no doubt deplorable as was the abuse that protesters endured in jail, what could be perhaps more chilling to the average American is the fact that other participants in the RNC protests are actually facing terrorism charges - on little to no actual evidence.
'Furthering Terrorism'
On the same day that Palin gave her speech mocking the rights of terror suspects, eight alleged leaders of an anti-authoritarian activist group called the RNC Welcoming Committee were formally charged with "Conspiracy to Riot in Furtherance of Terrorism."
The eight are being prosecuted under a 2002 Minnesota state law modeled on the USA Patriot Act. They now face up to over seven years in prison under the terrorism enhancement charge, with the only evidence against them apparently the testimony of law enforcement officials who infiltrated their organization.
Under the 2002 state law, a crime is considered to "further terrorism" if it is "intended" to "terrorize, intimidate, or coerce a considerable number of members of the public in addition to the direct victims of the act."
If accused of "furthering terrorism," individuals face a 50 percent increase in the maximum penalty they would receive for committing similar crimes (such as vandalism) that are not "intended" to "coerce" the public.
The language of the Minnesota law is eerily similar to the original Patriot Act, passed hastily in the aftermath of 9/11. Section 802 of the Patriot Act defines domestic terrorism as "activities that (A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the U.S. or any state; (B) appear to be intended (i) to influence policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (ii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S. ..."
Groups such as the American Civil Liberties Union and the American Bar Association have long objected to this definition, particularly the provision of (B)(i). The prohibition against seeking to influence government policy by "intimidation" is so vague and so subjective that virtually any act of civil disobedience or confrontational protest could fit under the definition, the critics have said.
Now it is clear that these concerns were valid.
While there have been other cases in which activists have been investigated by the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force and otherwise treated as "terrorists," the arrest of these eight individuals clearly marks an escalation of what some have called "the criminalization of dissent," and what others see as the merger of domestic law enforcement and the larger "global war on terror."
RNC 8
The case of the "RNC 8" reminds those engaged in protest activities that they need not actually commit a crime to be accused of terrorism.
As the National Lawyers Guild points out, "The criminal complaints filed by the Ramsey County Attorney do not allege that any of the defendants personally have engaged in any act of violence or damage to property. The complaints list all of [the] alleged violations of law during the last few days of the RNC ... and seeks to hold the eight defendants responsible for acts committed by other individuals."
In other words, without a shred of physical evidence, and based solely on the testimony of police officers who infiltrated the RNC Welcoming Committee, these individuals are being held responsible for the alleged criminal actions of others simply because they were involved with a group that advocated disrupting the RNC with confrontational acts of protest.
At best, it can be considered guilt by association.
But if Sarah Palin and the Republican Party were to have their way, these individuals would not even have the ability to challenge these charges in court.
After all, they are accused of terrorism, and as the Republicans have made clear, those accused of terrorism don't have any rights - not even the right to habeas corpus, a centuries-old legal tradition that affords the accused the right to face their accuser and challenge their detention in a court of law.
This is a point that Barack Obama actually made as a follow-up to Palin's comment at the RNC. Obama, who used to teach constitutional law at the University of Chicago, said on Sept. 8 that captured terror suspects deserve at least the right to file writs of habeas corpus challenging their detention.
Calling it "the foundation of Anglo-American law," he said the principle of habeas corpus "says very simply: If the government grabs you, then you have the right to at least ask, ‘Why was I grabbed?' And say, ‘Maybe you've got the wrong person.'"
In the case of the RNC 8, the principle may be even more fundamental than that. Without the right of habeas corpus, these individuals would never be able to face their accusers and see the evidence against them - which, according to their lawyers is nothing more than the accusations of police officers who infiltrated their organization.
But considering the direction that law enforcement has been heading, and the ever-growing equation of protest activism with "terrorism," it is not inconceivable that someday defendants such as the RNC 8 may not even have the chance to defend themselves in court.
It is especially chilling how enthusiastically Sarah Palin's mockery of Americans' constitutional rights was received in St. Paul by the convention delegates.
And with the relative silence that the story of RNC protests and police abuse has received in the mainstream media, it is doubtful many would even notice if constitutional rights continue to be rolled back.
- Posted in



116 Comments so far
Show AllWhat dissent is allowed? At what point are the people allowed to challenge power?
According to the high school civics text books, the people can do this through the political process. Yet, should they try they find a political process that is blocked. We have a two party monopoly that excludes any other candidates. Only the candidates picked by the two party machines can participate. We have a political process where money has been made the prime determiner of who can compete and who can win.
So, citizens are likely to find the political process blocked. We see this in seeing overwhelming numbers of Americans who say we should end our wars and come home, but the two major parties won't provide a candidate with those views. And any other candidates who might advocate that are blocked from the airwaves, from the debates, and in some cases even from the ballot.
Thus, the next step is protest and civil disobedience. This is the avenue that has been traditionally available to groups who find the political process blocked. They can use these peaceful methods to raise public awareness of their cause. Perhaps the most prominent example of this in the last half decade is the civil rights movement.
But, what's key in the article is that this is now being blocked. When a group gets together and plans civil disobedience, ie, the commission of minor offenses like an unpermitted march or blocking a sidewalk, what we see now is that the police are infiltrating these groups, and then trying to lay conspiracy or in this case 'terrorism' charges on people.
One key point is that the punishment should fit the crime. The punishment should not change if there is a political motive involved. So, if you either don't arrest or just give a jaywalking ticket to someone who illegally walks in the street, then that should be the same penalty when a protesters illegally marches in the street. If blocking a sidewalk is at best a ticket normally, then that should be the ticket when a political group does this.
The big problem is this. A healthy society needs ways that the people can espouse the causes that are important to them. A healthy society needs to be able to correct itself when its leaders start making bad mistakes. In the US, the political system has largely been blocked by the corporate parties and their candidates. Now it appears the police want to shut down any ability to protest or to do civil disobedience.
This is the equivalent of plugging the relief valve on a steam kettle. Yes, it cuts out that annoying noise. But, the pressure still builds up, and if it doesn't have a way to release, it will just continue to build up until it blows. In the short term, the police state types might be proud of themselves for stopping that annoying noise. In the long term, they will likely realize someday that this was a major mistake.
----------------------------
"To know, and not to do, is not to know"
www.samsonsworld.blogspot.com
What samson didn't say, but I'm sure understands, is that the boiling point will come when the masses realize that their basic human needs can no longer be fulfilled. The last century provided ample proof of people allowing incredible atrocities to happen but not doing anything to hold their governmant responsible for its actions, simply because their basic needs were being met: they had food on the table (even if not enough of it at times), a roof over their head, and something to do to occupy their free time, such as a job. Around the world, food is becoming scarce or spiking in prices so as to be almost unattainable. Here in America, we are still shipping more and more jobs overseas. And finally, foreclosures are up, thus making hundreds to thousands of more people homeless. With time on our hands, and major grievances, like not having enough to eat, how much longer will it be before the proverbial s--- hits the fan? It is such as these that revolutions are made.
If peaceful avenues for empowerment are blocked, it will lead to violence. It's that simple.
Given the Republican Party's disdain for human rights, no one should be shocked about torture and abuse at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo. Palin's people are fascists through and through.
One key thing to remember is that what you saw on the convention floor is not the majority of Americans. And I'd doubt that the Republicans are unified on this. So, its probably better to view it as a influential minority of maybe 20% of the populace. They manage to drag along others with their rhetoric. But that support can be rather soft.
There is an old tradition amongst Republicans where 'small government' means opposition to exactly this sort of police powers. Remember how upset Republicans were at the Clinton Administration's use of the FBI for example. That undercurrent is still there. There are probably a lot of Republicans that might cheer a line in a partisan speech, but if push really came to shove, would not approve of this sort of elimination of civil liberties.
Of course, one problem is since the Democrats also accept this, they never push back, so push never really does come to shove on these issues. If the Democrats made a strong case as to why this should not be, they'd find a lot of support.
Which goes to the other problem. In general, the Democrats and Republicans are doing what they want and they don't seem to care about public opinion.
----------------------------
"To know, and not to do, is not to know"
www.samsonsworld.blogspot.com
Just to underscore my point about Dems and Repugs, notice that the Dems never did anything serious about stopping the abuses at either Abu Ghraib or Gitmo. A few grandstanding statements, but never any serious opposition. And remember, all the top Democrats in the congressional leadership and the intel committees are briefed by the White House on all of this. They know what's going on, and they don't object.
The point was even more clear in the streets of Denver. A Democratic mayor used very much the same principles to quash protest against the Dem convention. Maybe not quite as extreme. But, as the police here met any protest with hundreds of riot police, as they raided the convergence center here, as they spied on and infiltrated the groups organizing here, as they closed the park that was trying to host a 'Festival of Democracy', it becomes clear that the difference is only a matter of degree. Focusing only on Republicans as the cause of the problem is a mistake.
----------------------------
"To know, and not to do, is not to know"
www.samsonsworld.blogspot.com
-"Al-Qaeda terrorists still plot to inflict catastrophic harm on America," Palin said, "and he's worried that someone won't read them their rights."
Palin is dead wrong. She should be mocking Obama for his aquescence in the rounding up of peacefull political demonstrators and media members. His hypocracy flies in the face of his avowed belief in civil rights for “terrorists”. If he can’t stand up for Amy Goodman’s rights, why should anyone believe he would stand up for the rights of anyone else?
THANK YOU for your comment ! Where is Obama's outrage ????
Actually he's worried that the Republicans won't get his jokes right.
From the Newspeak Dictionary:
crimethink - To even consider any thought not in line with the principles of Ingsoc. Doubting any of the principles of Ingsoc. All crimes begin with a thought. So, if you control thought, you can control crime. "Thoughtcrime is death. Thoughtcrime does not entail death, Thoughtcrime is death.... The essential crime that contains all others in itself."
crimethinker - One who engages in crimethink.
Orwell was not a novelist, he was a prophet. The Thought Police are alive and well in America.
Orwell WAS a Prophet...
Animal Farm and Nineteen Eighty Four are critiques of the Left...Not the Right
When I see what is Happening in the UK with Political Correctness run amok and the imposition of the Nanny State (Big Brother) I see he was a Visionary and a Prophet
and he hit the nail on the head
What makes you think the UK is 'left?'
Orwell may have based Oceania upon the USSR, but it is equally valid to read his work in the context of any Totalitarian political colouring.
There you go again, Wolfie...By the by, your absence was appreciated. Your absolute closemindedness is appalling, frankly, and as has already been mentioned, those books are indictments of all totalitarian thinking. You know, like thinking only one side in a war tells lies when it is obvious that the first casualty of war is the truth.
You are a peculiar little fellow and you undoubtedly fail utterly to understand how your blind loyalties and refusal to see beyond your ideology harms this nation you pretend to love.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
when was I absent?
"when was I absent?"
When the topic was dead Afghan children.
nope...I said if it turns out they did it...I will have a heaping helping of Crow...I also said the Army has re-opened the investigation...and there was a News Crew embedded with the unit and they turned over their film to the investigators
Lets see what the investigation says...
The problem is this type of smear article gets front page coverage if it is against Americans...but if it turns out the Taliban had some mortar rounds fall short and killed those kids the correction is a 1" square on page A35
You missed this one:
Published on Monday, September 8, 2008 by Associated Press
"Videos Show Dead Afghan Children After US Raid"
by Fisnik Abrashi
Implying our government's actions are no worse than the terrorists lowers us to their level. Blaming the media for pointing out our government's failures is counterproductive to a free society. It is not OK if we don't know about it - Abu Graib would not have been OK, Guantanamo Bay would not have been OK, the razing of Fallujah would not have been OK, the bombing of Iraq weddings would not have been OK.
So many official reports have been in error, whitewashed, or intentionally false that waiting for the "investigation" is not a solution. Ending the "war" is the only solution.
...and he's gone again! Cockroaches scuttle from the light, neocons from the truth.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Cicero: "Freedom is participation in power."
Once again SnowWolf spews forth with hogwash pretending to food color it as "debate." He/she clearly knows nothing about George Orwell's personal history, let the nature of his political critiques.
George Orwell fought in the Spanish Civil War against the Right-wing fascists under Franco but was also ideologically anti-Communist--because he was against Totalitarianism. Between 1943 and l945, Orwell wrote a regular column for the Tribune, a British Left-wing weekly, entitled "As I Please" featuring his observations about British life during WWII. The British Right-wing tried numerous times to claim him as one of their own to his supreme disdain.
Orwell believed that if the working class and the educated middle-class Left could successfully cohere they would be an unbeatable political force. He constructively criticized Leftist intellectuals against the bad habit of allowing flaccid, sloganistic, evasive or gutless language to undermine policy ideas that supported democracy, equality and freedom. He felt that Leftist intellectuals were often out of touch with the working masses for whom they professed to speak and he was concerned that such speakers would scare ordinary working class voters away from the Left.
"Bad political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable and give the appearance of solidity to pure wind."
Orwell felt that middle-class orators for the Left should not live in ivory towers but should go out and live amongst and work with the working class long enough to understand and connect with them--something he did himself. He was suspicious of any partisan ideology. He rejected orthodoxies of ALL kinds. He preferred to critique society regardless of the Party currently in power so long as society remained unjust. He believed in the fearless pursuit of truth and in the power of the truth to educate a better electorate. He did not believe in letting any political faction tell one what to think or how to vote.
In Orwell's time the British Right was the bastion of a still inflexible class system with landed aristocracy at the top. Mainly because of demographic changes created by "free trade" globalism the British class system is looking more like Swiss cheese these days, though still very anal retentive and top-heavy with wealth and power. [In fact, after 30 years of Right-ward drift by both major Parties in the U.S., Amurka has less upward class mobility for the first time under Duhhbya than many places in Europe and the U.K.]
But in terms of the British politics of Orwell's day, he wanted to forge an electoral majority out of the British Labour Party and the Independent Labour Party (also Leftist) to implement democratic socialist policies that would revolutionize Britain and sweep away the old class system that he viewed as imperially regressive. These were the days when many Brits and Americans still knew enough about Socialism to see it more as a loose ideology of degree--not an absolute Totalitarian/Machiavellian doctrine like Marxist-Leninist Communism or Nazi Fascism.
Orwell knew the difference between true patriotism (which is a love of country, people, ideals and values) and nationalism (which is aggressive for the sake of macho posturing at the individual level and illegal resource theft at the national level, inherently cynical and manipulative). On this particular topic I will add this: I have nothing but contempt for the sort of thug-life militarism-equals-patriotism evinced by pro-Bush members of our armed forces since the day Bush baited-and-switched his "war on terrorism" from Afghanistan to Iraq--a move straight out of Orwell's 1984. And I'm not alone by orders of millions of Americans, many of whom have served in other wars and do not recognize the current Iraq occupation as a just war by ANY warped Right-wing definition or lie. Bush's war/occupation in Iraq never has and never will have ANYTHING to do with "protecting" America or Americans from anything. In point of fact, it has only multiplied the threat of terrorism at least six-fold according to the U.S. State Dept.'s own annual figures going back to 2003.
If Orwell were alive today he would tell America's Left and DLC Democrats to fearlessly confront the propaganda storms and fear-mongering of the Right with the truth; to never dumb down the message for the sake of the least common political denominator, but to educate and inform about what we have in common as human beings that makes us all worthy of having enough economic, environmental and Constitutional wherewithal to live decent lives as a free people.
Bingo, except, I suppose, for thinking that the DLC is an opponent of the right.
There follows a short bit from Orwell's 1946 essay, "Politics and the English Language."
---------------------------------
In our time, political speech and writing are largely the defence of the indefensible. Things like the continuance of British rule in India, the Russian purges and deportations, the dropping of the atom bombs on Japan, can indeed be defended, but only by arguments which are too brutal for most people to face, and which do not square with the professed aims of the political parties. Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness. Defenceless villages are bombarded from the air, the inhabitants driven out into the countryside, the cattle machine-gunned, the huts set on fire with incendiary bullets: this is called pacification. Millions of peasants are robbed of their farms and sent trudging along the roads with no more than they can carry: this is called transfer of population or rectification of frontiers. People are imprisoned for years without trial, or shot in the back of the neck or sent to die of scurvy in Arctic lumber camps: this is called elimination of unreliable elements. Such phraseology is needed if one wants to name things without calling up mental pictures of them. Consider for instance some comfortable English professor defending Russian totalitarianism. He cannot say outright, ‘I believe in killing off your opponents when you can get good results by doing so’. Probably, therefore, he will say something like this:
‘While freely conceding that the Soviet regime exhibits certain features which the humanitarian may be inclined to deplore, we must, I think, agree that a certain curtailment of the right to political opposition is an unavoidable concomitant of transitional periods, and that the rigors which the Russian people have been called upon to undergo have been amply justified in the sphere of concrete achievement.’
The inflated style itself is a kind of euphemism. A mass of Latin words falls upon the facts like soft snow, blurring the outline and covering up all the details. The great enemy of clear language is insincerity. When there is a gap between one's real and one's declared aims, one turns as it were instinctively to long words and exhausted idioms, like a cuttlefish spurting out ink. In our age there is no such thing as ‘keeping out of politics’. All issues are political issues, and politics itself is a mass of lies, evasions, folly, hatred, and schizophrenia. When the general atmosphere is bad, language must suffer. I should expect to find — this is a guess which I have not sufficient knowledge to verify — that the German, Russian and Italian languages have all deteriorated in the last ten or fifteen years, as a result of dictatorship.
The statement that the "DLC is an opponent of the Right" is a generality in which I neither believe nor disbelieve. The DLC are the epitome of flip-flopping opportunists.
The DLC does SOMETIMES oppose the Republican Right because they must appear, for the sake of partisan legacy--pretending to identify with pre-1980 Democratic Party core constituencies--to oppose the GOP during campaigns and in some other political and media-related situations. If a DLC member's base is not dependent on a particular corporate lobby for campaign money they will occasionally show a glimpse of vertebrae, but they are generally cowards when facing the business press and the GOP. They have to be pushed to show more legislative courage by those to the Left of them. The belated trend toward fielding more progressive opponents to run against people like Nancy Pelosi and Joe Liebermann is long overdue, as is a unified Progressive Party. But that is no excuse in the meantime not to pressure the DLC to move Left.
You are incorrect.
Extremists of all kinds were the targets of Orwell's work.
Also, Big Brother is certainly not confined to right-wing versions of the "nanny state."
Have you even read Orwell? It doesn't appear so.
Under the 2002 state law, a crime is considered to "further terrorism" if it is ... coerce a considerable number of members of the public in addition to the direct victims of the act."
Covers just about any politician, doesn't it.
Call me Silly but I've never believed that United States Constitutional rights apply to anyone but Citizens of the United States...
International Law would apply to all, as would the Law of Armed Conflict. But not Constitutional Rights when the Individuals are not citizens and not IN the U.S.
“I've never believed that United States Constitutional rights apply”
Does “all men are created equal” and “inalianable rights” ring a bell?
Where do you think US constitutional concepts flow from? A cereal box?
Does the US constitution say “everyone is equal, unless McCain/Obama say they are not”?
Does it say you are born with inalienable rights, unless the president says you are not?
It is classic Bush thinking to play the game of putting foreigners snatched from far away lands on trial for breaking imaginary ex post facto US created extra-territorial laws, while at the same time giving the US government the ability to rob citizens and non citizens alike of their human rights by declaring them enemy combatant sub-humans.
As usual they want it both ways; unchecked power world wide to prosecute prisoners or entire wars and then when they are challenged they claim that no law, not even their own constitution, applies, not even to themselves.
Did we give the Germans and Japanese Constitutional Rights?...I don't think so
Has a Sovereign Nation EVER given the Enemy full legal standing in a Wartime situation?....not on this Planet (Maybe in your little world)
in fact my understanding of international law says you do not have to accept the surrender of a Terrorist in the first place so we are already giving them more than we have to...
"Did we give the Germans and Japanese Constitutional Rights?"
No, not constitutional rights as such... but habeas corpus, Yes.
Thank you...I didn't know if it was Strictly Geneva
but that makes sense as they were legitimate Military Combatants
"in fact my understanding of international law says you do not have to accept the surrender of a Terrorist in the first place so we are already giving them more than we have to..."
So SnowWolf, what exactly IS a terrorist in your mind?
its not an in my mind definition...I know exactly what a Terrorist is
A Terrorist is a member of a Para-Military Organization that wages War outside of the established rules of armed conflict to advance some idiological or political goal
They Primarliy Target Civilians or the otherwise defenseless...do not wear Uniforms or Identifying insignia.(Normally)do not carry their Arms Openly and hide among the general Populace...
WTC Attack was Terrorism..USS Cole Bombing was not
Dude...I have 30 years Military Experience...you are not going to win a debate with me on this subject
Who makes your “established rules”? Yeah I thought so.
How many more civilians have died in Iraq than military members? What was that you said about primarily targeting civilians?
“you are not going to win a debate with me”-Newsflash from earth:he already has “dude” ;)
What part of We Don't primarily TARGET Civilians don't you get?...
it is a Courts Martial Offense to Target Civilians...not to mention a War Crime under International Law
Let me put this in terms even you can understand....
you need to Bomb a Baby Formula Factory in an unnamed Country that is making Anthrax Spores on the side....it is full of ordinary workers making baby formula...well I hope the workers make it out ok...they are not the Target..
George W. Bush and his Republicans fit your definition of being terrorists with some minor modifications like being chicken hawk civilians that evaded combat instead of paramilitary.
By the way, anybody (US) cavalierly and carelessly dropping 500lb bombs on innocent men, women and children fits my definition of a terrorist whether they were the primary target or not.
This would make the American Revolutionaries 'terrorists' by your definition. Correct?
Um...No
The Continental Army Wore Uniforms ...even the Militia's Carried their Arms Openly and fought within the established rules
I can recommend some books for you (and frankly...I think you need them)
IIRC, they surprised the British with guerrilla tactics breaking many established 'rules' of warfare. (Hiding in trees, camouflage, no discernible formations)
Recommend away. Can always benefit from a broader spread of material when reading any history.
and that is perfectly OK when fighting a Guerrilla war...look what the Filipino people did against the Japanese...thats a good example of Good Guerilla Tactics...
Nathan Bedford Forrest would be a good example of how one is NOT supposed to conduct a campaign like that...although he was successful he was breaking just about every rule there was...including Massacre
in fact its not a stretch to define Bedford Forrest as a Terrorist
"Dude...I have 30 years Military Experience...you are not going to win a debate with me on this subject..."
Yeah, I guess we're at a real disadvantage up against that kind of experience in spreading disinformation...
Difficult discussing freedom with someone who has experienced very little of it for 30 years.
Well I certainly earned my freedom...while you have done nothing to earn or protect it
but thats OK...Much better people than you will keep protecting it for you
It's debatable whether anything needed militarily protecting at all in the last 30 years. Thanks for your sacrifice.
Ok... so considering one of the prerequisites of being a "terrorist" is the purposeful targeting of civilians, that would seem to imply that US troops overseas are fair game, correct?
Yes...
They are "Combatants"...when you put on the Uniform you assume the risk
your question is rather weird
Exactly. In one of my first International Terrorism classes here at school we were asked the question that went something like this:
A U.S. Army Chinook helicopter carrying troops out of their base to head back to the United States for recreation with their waiting families was shot down by insurgents and everyone on board was killed. Is this terrorism?
The answer is no, they are uniformed combatants in a war zone...that makes them legitimate military targets. There was an article on here about a month ago, pointing out the bias of the NYT in calling civilians who resisted the Russian occupation in Georgia heroes, while calling the civilians who resisted occupation in Baghdad terrorists. Should be in the archives from early to mid August.
SnowWolf consistently leaves his turds in the snow then watches as the gullible line up and discuss his sh#t. Why?
Who are you calling gullible? I looked it up in the dictionary and dude, it's in there!
It's hard to not get distracted with the Snow Wolf nonsense but I think it's best to avoid his right-wing, pro-imperialist, pro-militarist, we have a RIGHT to dominate the planet, subjugate everyone that disagrees with us, drop 500lb bombs on wedding parties by mistake (that's ok) and that he spent 30 years out in the wilderness battling "terrorists" to protect out freedoms, Big Business and Big Oil's profits, backward and unenlightened views.
Personally, I think I'll ignore the fool, cannon fodder and stooge of the imperialist powers that be.
The definition seems to have changed a little in the thirty years since you were indoctrinated.
American Protesters are now defined as terrorists.
Thats because your anarchist friends behave like them....
THIS American protester doesn't behave like them. I resent your steriotype! Welcome to AmeriKKKa!!!