Fib Factory Running Full Tilt
White House Tells Some Whoppers In Bid to Depict Wars As Battles Against al-Qaida
The latest whoppers from the White House’s fib factory came this week as President George W. Bush (A) claimed U.S. forces in Iraq are fighting “the same people” who staged 9/11, and, (B) withdrawing U.S. forces means “surrendering Iraq to al-Qaida.”These absurd assertions mark the latest steps in the administration’s evolving efforts to depict the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as battles against al-Qaida.
When marketers want to change the name of an existing product, they first place a new name in small type below the existing one. They gradually shrink the old name, and enlarge the new one until the original name vanishes.
That’s what’s been happening in Iraq. When the U.S. invaded, Iraqis who resisted were branded “Saddam loyalists, die-hard Ba’athists, or dead-enders.” Next, the Pentagon and U.S. media called them “terrorists.” Then, a tiny, previously unknown Iraqi group appropriated the name, “al-Qaida in Mesopotamia.”
This was such a convenient gift to the Bush administration, cynics suspected a false-flag operation created by CIA and Britain’s wily MI6. Soon after, the White House and Pentagon began calling all Iraq’s 22-plus resistance groups, “al-Qaida.”
The U.S. media eagerly joined this deception, even though 95% of Iraq’s resistance groups had nothing to do with Osama bin Laden’s movement. Watch any U.S. network TV news report on Iraq and you will inevitably hear reporters parroting Pentagon handouts about U.S. forces “launching a new offensive against al-Qaida.”
Al-Qaida in Iraq didn’t even exist before 9/11, but that didn’t stop the president from trying to gull credulous voters. Polls show that in spite of a mountain of evidence to the contrary, White House disinformation strategy has worked. Today, an amazing 60% of Americans still believe Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11.
FAUX WAR
This faux war is now costing a mind-boggling $12 billion US monthly, reports the non-partisan Congressional Research Service. The Bush administration has spent $610 billion since 2001 on its wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, making them the second most expensive conflict in U.S. history after the Second World War.
This week, U.S. Homeland Security czar Michael Chertoff allowed he had a “gut feel” that an al-Qaida attack was imminent this summer. The 16 U.S. intelligence agencies spend $40 billion annually, with another $15-20 billion in their hidden “black budgets.” Homeland Security spends $44.6 billion.
After these gargantuan expenditures, the best intelligence czar Chertoff can come up with is “gut feel?”
One suspects Chertoff’s worried innards and leaks that al-Qaida has returned to full strength have far more to do with the growing Republican Party revolt against the president’s Iraq war than nebulous threats from Osama bin Laden’s loud but tiny group.
Polls show the only area where Republicans still command popular support is the “war on terror.”
SCARE TACTIC
So Bush/Cheney & Co are trying to use al-Qaida to scare Americans to vote Republican, just as they did prior to 2004 elections. It worked well last time and got Bush re-elected.
But Americans are increasingly leery of the White House’s crying wolf.
Many are also asking how Bush could claim “steady progress” was being made in his wars while U.S. intelligence was reporting al-Qaida movement is back to pre-2001 strength and Iraq is a bloody mess.
After six years of conflict, 3,600 dead and 25,000 wounded American soldiers, expenditure of $610 billion, tens of thousands of dead Iraqis and Afghans, collapse of Mideast peace efforts, and a Muslim World enraged against the U.S., nothing positive seems to have been accomplished.
As the White House ponders an attack on Iran, recall the famed words of King Pyrrhus of Epirus, “one more such victory and we are ruined.”
Eric Margolis can be reached at margolis@foreigncorrespondent.com.
© 2007 The Toronto Sun
“Polls show the only area where Republicans still command popular support is the “war on terror.”
can this be true?? by their own words, deeds and twisted reports they have done nothing but endanger the people of earth…
ps. al-qaida, as a viable threat, does not exist…pass it on
“Today, an amazing 60% of Americans still believe Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11.”
Maybe it IS time for a knowledge test at the voting
booth… How can people be so dumb!?!
Have you ever wondered why the U.S. regime constantly makes deceptive and ridiculous claims and the mainstream media echo chambers keep repeating them? What is it that Bush/Cheney gang and MSM know about the American people? It must be because they assume or they know their audience to be credulous and ignorant. It’s very easy to deceive a child, and you can do it over and over again. Maybe that explains the relationship between the Bush regime and the majority of its subjects.
Where did you get that 60% figure peoplefirst?
I do believe you mistakenly got it backwards.
Even so, if ANY believe it, they are pretty dense and very un-informed. Even Bush, Cheney, Rove and the rest of that gang now admit that Saddam was not responsible.
Most know the truth, like us at CD, most don’t seem to be able to do much of anything about it except talk. It’s very difficult to break the power of a dictatorship. It does appear that there are a few dim lights at the end of the tunnel. We’ll see if they get bigger and brighter during the next few weeks.
Having had the opportunity to watch FOX tv for the first time while in cardic rehab I was first amazed that their so called news, and ‘breaking news’ is so silly, even laughable if it weren’t so sad. Kidnappings, rapes, murders, celebrity on-again and off-agains, etc. And, of course if you watch it daily you would be scared out of your wits as the boogy man is coming, you’d better believe it. What ever happened to David and Chet and Walter? And, so it is.
How well-informed is Chertoff’s gut? Is he, and his innards, privy to information that he doesn’t feel the need to share? Maybe we are going to get another WMD story or worse. It’s going to take an earthshaker of an event to usher in the total control that these criminals seem to pursue.
It’s astounding how ceaselessly Bush & Co. whore out our antiquated system and capitalize on ignorance of the masses.
A teacher, guru, mentor, professor, etc. is charged with educating a new generation of leaders, practitioners, scholars, etc. They impart their knowledge to empower the next generation and, indeed, the goal is to make them not only as good — but better (if possible), to promote a particular study or pursuit.
But there’s a total opposite out there also — those who make their followers stupid, capitalize on stupidity, further stupidity, get more powerful on their stupidity, and hope to make them increasingly stupid. What are the words to describe this sort of anti-teacher?
My gut feeling is ___ we are on the bring of being history.
“The war on terror is a war on peace.” Michael Franti
I would believe that of the supporters of the war, 60% of them believe that Saddam was involved in 9/11 (or maybe higher). And some reports say that 80% of the US soldiers in Iraq mistakenly believe that Saddam was involved with 9/11. I guess lying works so why should the president stop now?
Next time you talk to a supporter of the war, ask them how many of the 9/11 hijackers were from Iraq. The correct answer is none. (Fifteen of the attackers were from Saudi Arabia, two from the United Arab Emirates, one from Egypt, and one from Lebanon.)
Then look at their face when you correct them and say that none of the hijackers were from Iraq. Then some have the fallback arguement that the world is a better place without Saddam, and remind them that the US helped Saddam rise to power.
Of course, there are some reports that are saying that some of the alleged hijackers are still alive. At this point, I don’t think any information, no matter how far fetched it seems, should be discounted. This is a result of the constant lying Bush and Co have done. And previous presidents as well.
I’m not sure if there is a simple solution because certain parties want the lies to continue because they benefit (oil companies, weapons manufacturers, violence prone paramilitary types etc).
But that doesn’t mean that people shouldn’t stand up against the injustice. And a few do, but not enough. This is an outrage. Start with making a public pledge for peace.
peace, justice, and human rights for all
www.NotOneMore.US
@ annabelle:
Gee, I don’t know if FOX is exactly what somebody in cardiac rehab should be seeing…
The “Fib Factory” couldn’t be so successful if this country had a vibrant, militant media that insisted on the truth. Nor could the Bush administration perpetrate it’s propaganda if Congress was doing its investigative work, including investigating and documenting evidence for articles of impeachment.
The Bush administration has dared the media, Congress and the American people time and time again–in virtually every case (all except privatizing Social Security), the keepers of regulation and oversight, as well as the voters, have flinched–again and again.
The price this nation and the world has been paying regarding a bogus “War On Terror”, ($600 billion and counting in Afghanistan and Iraq, 30,000 plus American casualties, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi casualties and millions displaced), doesn’t include the damage to the Constitution and the pretentions of three co-equal branches of government, the rule of law (Libby, DOJ’s political pogroms, signing statments and unwarranted spying), the abhorrance most of the world has towards things American (Gitmo, Abu Grahib and secret renditions),and a falling dollar and a $9 Trillion debt.
I’ve been observing the American political and economic scene for over thirty years–the state of the union and the disintegration in affordable housing, education, race relations, medical care, foreign policy catastrophies, has been unprecedented. The government and its agencies have failed the American people repeatedly, the media have enabled the carnage, and the American people have fallen asleep at the wheel, thinking that some big Daddy is going to save them from their greed, their insatiable consuming, and their collective ignorance.
This administration was birthed in the caldron of lies and judicial manipulation, nurtured and suckled on the teet of neo-con hubris, made strong by its dismantling of governmental oversight of everything from FEMA, to the FDA, to the SEC and the FCC. It has been one long neo-con, dog-eat-dog corporate capitalist fuckfest. Guess who the fuckees are?
If the American people were to kick the front door in of their ‘democratically elected’ government, the whole stinking, rotting edifice would collapse under it’s own corruption and malfesance.
What are we waiting for–besides the Rapture?
The famed words of King Pyrrhus of Epirus, “one more such victory and we are ruined.” So that’s where Pyrrhic victory came from. Wonderful quote.
I can well believe that 60% of Americans believe Saddham was responsible for 9/11. They’re opposed to the war because we’re not winning. Just spending lots of money and lots of people dying - although I suspect most of them are more concerned about the American deaths than Iraqi deaths. How dare they consider one life more valuable than another? Or think that American parents suffer more than Iraqi parents at the loss of their children? What we have done to that country is the crime of the century. I for one want to see Bush impeached for that even more than turning the DOJ into a Republican mafia. Although turning our Constitution into a worthless piece of paper ranks pretty high as well. So many choices and no takers. I thought the Democratic leaders were cowardly opportunists, but now I think they are complicit.
This guy never quits trying to make connections where there are none and failing to make connections where they are so obvious. The power to make valid connections of seemingly unrelated data is a sign of intelligence. This is obviously NOT one of Junior’s strong points.
He tells the same lies with a speck of truth. YES, al Qaeda is the same organization that did 9/11, but al Qaeda NEVER existed in Iraq until Junior trumped up an invasion based on lies. Al Qaeda is the SAME organization that this dufus totally ignored before 9/11. How is THAT for making the obvious connections…NOT!
The al Qaeda based in Iraq is more like the Arab fighters in Afghanistan that fought the Soviet invasion. Noticing any interesting parallels or connections? There ya go..I knew ya could
When I mention that Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11, I get this response a lot. “Hitler had nothing to do with Pearl Harbor.”. Of course that is bogus too. Hitler declared war on the US on 12/11/1943 and we reciprocated. Besides, Hitler knew about the attack and approved and encouraged it. With 9/11, Saddam Hussein had no knowledge.
I fully expect another Bush false flag attack on the USA before the 2008 elections. These criminals will kill anyone to keep the power, even their own electorate
Thom Hartmann told a caller to his radio show a few days ago that, when former DHS director Tom Ridge was asked on a late-night talk show why he raised the terror level so often, he replied that he really didn’t know why. He just raised it every time Karl Rove asked him to.
Well if you guys and gals are right, that at least 60% of Americans believe Saddam was responsible for 9-11, then we are in worse shape than I thought. That should also mean that 60% still support the war effort and also support the Cheney/Bush gang. That isn’t the reports and polls we are now seeing.
Anyway, I don’t disagree with any here that we have a most serious problem in DC and I support your opinions.
Hi Kathy, good to hear from you, wish you were writing articles for Common Dreams. I wish you were the President of the United States.___ Really!
Chertoff’s “gut feeling” wasn’t that at all. See, he knew about the report stating that the al Qaeda boogymen are as strong as ever, and he assumed it would be kept secret (or changed to state that Bush is doing a heck of a job.) But he’s such a moronic asshole, he couldn’t keep his mouth shut, like some little gossip girl playing “I’ve got a secret.” And someone on his staff responded: oh yea, dick, do ya? Here’s yer friggin’ secret…
There’s also the chance he is aware of some sort of Rummy-inspired pitch black op plans that include blowin’ a few things up stateside if the Cheneybush Loonitary Diktatorship fully capsizes, and blaming it on a handful of “terrorists” who were caught super quick by Chertoff and his band of loyalbushie incompetents. (A pool of terrorist “pigeons” is easily accessible, from any one of the scores of secret prisons America does not operate.) But since lying ain’t Chertoff’s strong suit (turns out he does not have a strong suit,) he couldn’t help himself.
Yet, the administration continues it’s heinous rampage unabated. If Hitler popped by, would we be as helpless to stop him from killing every Jew in America?
I’m becoming more and more convinced that the war in Iraq is merely a diversion from the deeper crimes - stealing and dismantling the US Constitution. Very few people are demanding the rescinsion of the Patriot Acts, Military Commissions Act and these insane directives giving Bush martial law power. And if 60 per cent of Americans still believe the Hussein was behind 9/11 they sure as heck don’t know about the laws mentioned above. But as long as our attention is on Iraq, the loop around our collective necks is getting tighter. False Flag Event just around the corner, folks.
Hitler declared war on the US on 12/11/1943 ???
Where does this endless misinformation originate?
Evelyn, many years ago Johnny Carson reminded us the light at the end of the tunnel is a proctoscope. Now can we talk about “gut feeling”?
Here’s when it really happened, waiguoren:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_World_War_II#Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor
The poster was a couple years late is all.
Personally I have to cringe every time someone says Bushco’s doing everything badly, or claim that they are morons. I think they’re doing super! The plan’s almost completely successful, and it’s been deliberate, not some stupid mistake. From start to finish the ‘dismantling’ of the USA that we grew up believing in (not that it really existed mind you except as a conceptual potentiality) is a dream come true. Dreams for some, nightmares for others.
The media have been in on it because they, like the individuals in the Buscho regime, are a fully owned subsidiary of some corporation or other. It is in their interests to not perform actual real journalism. If they did, advertisers would stop advertising and their little house of cards would vanish.
Anyone know what it costs for a one-way ticket to … oh, someplace coolish, like … Norway? Sweden? Finland…??
Oh yeah guliper, I remember Johnny sayng that, his protologist was Dr. Ben Dover.
We are gettin old. Gut feeling? I think Chertoff is an idiot to make such an inane comment even if his gut feelng is such. We would all much prefer to hear the truth, we won’t however, not from anyone who supports Bush.
The tunnel light I see, is the growing discontent in America of ALL of the Bush policies, the media starting to cover that aspect and the actions being taken by many in the congress. Of course the light may just be a lost child carrying a candle. We’ll see if anything good occurs in the next three weeks.
I’m not holding my breath but I am almost prepared to ben-dover, cause I fear we may be about to get shafted and they won’t grease the shaft either, it’s gonna hurt.
Remember, this is the same Bush who couldn’t remember how the saying “Fool me once” went. Fool that he is, he should know that we got fooled once, but we won’t be fooled again. Cry wolf enough times and people begin to turn their backs on such a thing.
But the media loves sensationalism, so when Bush and Chertoff begin saying that they have a gut feeling that we’ll be attacked again and that al-Qaeda is back to pre-9/11 strength, it makes for great copy and lots of non-stop, round-the-clock, drama filled television with dramatic sounding music to further enhance the story: Duhn-duhn-de-duhn-duhn-de-duhn-duhn…. “THIS JUST IN! Homeland Security ‘czar’ Michael Chertoff says he has a ‘gut feeling’ that we’re going to be attacked again soon by minions of al-Qaeda who have sneaked into this country as illegal immigrants!!! Run for the hills! Get out your duct tape and plastic sheeting!” Duhn-duhn-duhnnnnnnnnnnn!
“THIS JUST IN!!! President Bush gives a Rose Garden Speech on al-Qaeda!!! ‘ahl-Kayda is back to pre-nahn ‘leven strenth and there are cells of ‘em illegal immigrants all over ahr country jus’ waitin’ to ‘tack us because they hate ahr freedoms, an’ see, ahm a wahr president, an’ it’s mah job to pertec’ the American people, see, an, well, fool me once…..uh, well, you cain’t…….well, al-Kayda, nahn ‘leven, fool me again.’ In other news today…..”
It’s all a ruse to keeps us all afraid. Republicans know what deep doo-doo they are in - witness how many Republicans in the Congress are abandoning the sinking Bush ship out of fear of losing their seats in the next election cycle - so they have to resort to desperate means to keep people dumb and compliant. Well, no one’s falling for the old wolf cry anymore. And they know it.
If, by chance, we are attacked in an even more spectacular means than on 9/11, we can hold this administration at fault for having made us the most hated nation on earth instead of the most vaunted and admired. We are viewed as nothing less than international criminals bent on hegemony and empire building and we no longer regard human rights as mattering anymore. We have created a network of secret gulags where anybody can be locked up and forgotten for no reason that they are ever told and with no ability to challenge their detention.
If that doesn’t resemble the old Soviet Union, I don’t know what does. I’m beginning to wonder when the hammer and sickle will replace the stars and stripes. (Notice how often the word “czar” is thrown around whenever anyone is appointed to a cabinet or an important administration position - is this by mere coincidence or by design?)
Hey Evelyn, you flatter me. I don’t think I’d make a very good President. How about Dennis Kucinich instead? I think he’d make a great President. Especially if we stop voting for those corporate shills in Congress and vote in some people who aren’t millionaires.
And let’s everyone PLEASE sign the National Initiative for Democracy at www.Ni4D.us
Thank you, Kathy
My recent Googling to nail down current polls as to the percentage of Americans who STILL think Iraq was involved in attacking us on 9-11 turned up some big surprises. You probably remember that originally there were fewer than 10% (including Richard Perle and friends) who, in the first weeks after 9/11, believed in any link. But in the span of about 16 months, Bush’s war drumbeat and Rumsfeld’s lies about the evidence being “bulletproof” were so successful, that by February 2003, they had 72% of all Americans believing Saddam was “personally involved in the September 11 attacks.” One poll at the time found that almost half of all Americans believed that one or more of the 9/11 hijackers WERE Iraqi and seventy-three percent believed that Saddam was currently helping al-Qaeda. It wasn’t until September 2003 with polls still at 70% that Bush explicitly stated for the first time there was no evidence Saddam Hussein was involved in the September 1lth attacks. The percentage of blindly trusting Americans slowly began to drop. An April 2004 poll found that 57 percent of Americans surveyed believed that Iraq was helping Al Qaeda before the war, including 20 percent who believed Iraq was linked to the Sept. 11 attacks. By the end of 2005, with more truth coming out about Bush’s pre-war deception, the numbers had dropped down even further. Only 41% of U.S. adults still believed that Saddam Hussein had “strong links to Al Qaeda.”
But then, surprise, surprise! A big rebound occurred. A poll released in July 21, 2006, the last one I could find, went back up to 64% believing that Saddam Hussein had strong links to Al Qaeda. Worse still, according to a March 2, 2006, Zogby International Poll, 90% of American troops in Iraq believed that “they were fighting to avenge Saddam Hussein’s role in 9/11.”
Unfortuntately, this is what we’re up against.
Why is CD printing so much hate trash. I am disappointed that not one letter has a constructive side to it. It’s no wonder the Bush machine can get away with so much. Words can make a difference, but no one will replace Bush with hate. It’s useless banter!
You earned the flattery Kathy.
Your commom sense writing gives you away. I love what Dennis Kucinich stands for___ and for his honesty, common sense, guts, persiverance and intellect. I will vote for him when the time comes,___ IF he has ANY chance AT ALL of winning. I will never vote for anyone, just to make a meaningless statement or for self gratification.
When the bell sounds for the final round, I will not vote for ANY Republican and if I have to hold my nose when I do vote, I’ll hold it. Of course, with thh electronic voting where there is no paper trail, I fear it may be another sad day for us and a good day for the TV pundents. Ain’t this all horrible that we Americns have to think this way?
Neil wrote,
“Why is CD printing so much hate trash. I am disappointed that not one letter has a constructive side to it. It’s no wonder the Bush machine can get away with so much. Words can make a difference, but no one will replace Bush with hate. It’s useless banter!”
Maybe because we’re all tired and frustrated after six years of a criminal administration and no one doing a damn thing to stop them. After a while, you just want to vent and get it out of your system. It’s better than keeping it all cooped up inside and becoming even more angry and bitter than many of us have already become as a result of living with BushCo and his compliant, do-nothing Congress while the country goes to hell in a handbasket.
I hope that answers your question, Neil.
corporate media weasles, they should all be hanged…..
Why is the Bushist coup-Laida still being characterized as fibs when it is war criminal mendacity epitomized?
As this article is from the Toronto Sun I wonder how many people posting here are Canadians…. and for those of us who are….what are we doing to stop our government from more closely integrating Canada with the US and it’s foreign policies.
I am SHOCKED, SHOCKED to think that anyone would accuse such a fine devout Christian like Bu$h the inferior of a fib!
They don’t even try to stick to ‘truthiness’ anymore in Right wing land.
Cry wolf enough times and people begin to turn their backs on such a thing.
it makes for great copy and lots of non-stop, round-the-clock, drama filled television with dramatic sounding music to further enhance the story.
Does turning their backs mean that people are not reading great copy or watching or watching round-the-clock drama . I would call that boycott.
Proof-read what you write ; this is classical logical contradiction-one of the statements is true but not both
Sorry , I forgot to proof-read
“I’d rather vote for what I want and not get it than vote for what I don’t want, and get it.” - Eugene Debs
Canadians will likely continue to observe and think about “what are we doing to stop our government from more closely integrating Canada with the US and it’s foreign policies.” before acting….
With luck, US foreign policy will devour its master and we won’t have to do anything…..barring that false flag bit….
Evelyn Smith, explaining her sympathetic rationalization of strategic voting:
“IF he has ANY chance AT ALL of winning. I will never vote for anyone, just to make a meaningless statement or for self gratification.”
I think strategic voting is not only one of the major inherent flaws of our types (I’m European) of “democracy,” that and religiously or ideologically motivated automatic party loyalty is undermining the very idea.
You cannot make a “meaningless statement” by voting for what you want, instead that is the very essence of democracy. The basic idea of democracy is that two know more than one (and then multiply the effect.) If you as a person fail to contribute to that principle and do not “speak” your mind to the best of your knowledge (and conscience) but choose out of pragmatic consideration to settle for possibly far less, then you have failed democracy and as a logical result will have none.
I think it’s an overestimation of your personal importance, that’s hindering you.
Evelyn
“Where did you get that 60% figure peoplefirst?”
Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not. I was
just quoting the article.
Don’t be suprised if “Hitler had nothing to do with Pearl Harbour” resurrects Bush’s smoke-and-mirrors credibility enough to get us bogged down in Iran. It’s already caught on in cyberspace, having debuted in a piece of propaganda masquerading as satire http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px_XBJHrs4I. Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, but people still think so thanks to Bush’s mantra, and now more and more thanks to contrivances like this.
“…if I have to hold my nose when I do vote, I’ll hold it. Of course, with thh electronic voting where there is no paper trail, I fear it may be another sad day for us and a good day for the TV pundents. Ain’t this all horrible that we Americns have to think this way?”
Evelyn, we don’t have to think this way, it’s people believing it that has us in this state. If everybody - everybody - voted for who they really want we could stop this nightmare. But Americans are running scared and voting out of cowardice and fear and this is what we get. And keep on getting. Going from bad to worse and worse. Look at the track record. What direction are we going? If we started voting for decent candidates, maybe more people would start to vote.
And then we get ridiculous stories from trolls about Dennis Kucinich who has more integrity than the rest of the Democratic party added together. “He’s too short. Not handsome enough. His ears stick out. Too nervous and belligerent.” And on and on. One excuse after another. Even the Republicans in his district vote for him so obviously he can reach across party lines. He is Cleveland’s favorite son, but outside Cleveland city limits, the media’s best kept secret. The media never talks about him except to make fun of him. In “Team of Rivals”, the Abraham Lincoln biography, Lincoln was also ridiculed and dismissed for his manner and appearance. And he saved our country. I believe Dennis could do the same. But we have become a nation of sheep trying to live in a dream world and afraid to vote with our hearts and minds. In the Soviet Union, at least they knew voting was just a pretense. Here, Americans are fooling themselves into thinking they get a choice. And the winners of what has become a rat race are getting richer and richer. Talk about a country losing it’s way. Sad and tragic.
The attitude to politics here is oh so personal. Kucinich is a great guy, he’d make a great president etc. Even if he was a “great guy” that is not the point. He’s in a party that represents the interests of the corporations, of the capitalist class. Do the commentators here agree that the capitalist class exists or not? If so, Kucinich is in their party.
I saw him on the news the other day commenting about Edwards and Clinton’s little blunder at the microphone during a public debate and Kucinich referred,to them both as his friends.
That alone should cost him your vote.
The Democratic Party cannot represent the interests of working people, it is a black hole that is used to suck workers and especially any independent movement in to in order to diffuse it. Vote for Kucinich, it doesn’t matter what sort of a “nice guy” he is, it cannot resolve our problems, building a genuine mass political alternative is where one’s energy should be chaneled. The Debs quote someone posted is absolutely on the ball.
aactivist@igc.org
Maybe it’s time to stop hold our noses, and start building for the future. It is very hard to move forward with the, holding the nose strategy. Please check out the US Social Forum. People are actively working to build a better world.
magikpowerwoman et al -
You heard it here first. Neocons lose 2008 election. Dirty bomb in San Francisco, false flag operation causing large-scale damage, not limited to a few blocks. The pollution carried by the prevailing winds will destroy half the agriculture in the Central Valley, and get rid of a lot of liberals including Pelosi, Waxman, Feinstein, and Boxer. Martial law will have to be declared; no inauguration, and Bush (Cheney) stays on.
If the neocons win in 2008 (how the hell could THAT happen?) there’s no need for the bomb.
RNC headquarters in Orange County are saved by the Tehachapi Mountains.
Thank you all and a special thanks to Richard Mellor,___ I finally have figured it out.
If I vote for Kucinich, I have voted for a Capitalist, or the same thing as voting for a Repulsivican. If I vote for the Green Party candidate, I have helped a Repulsivican win. If I vote for a Repulsivican I am an idiot. So, no matter whom I vote for, it is wrong, even if I hold my nose while I vote. And holding my nose while voting is a dead giveaway, everyone will know who I voted for and I will still be branded as an idiot. That actually is Okay, call a spade a spade right.
If I don’t bother to vote at all, I am a traitor to the cause and shouldn’t be blogging here, because I an a closrt neo-con or something worse. What’s worse?___ Oh, what’s worse is holding my nose while I vote for any Democrat.
I Wonder if I do have it? I’d better go back and read all of the blogs again for the fifth time, cause I’m sort of stupid.
Kelly, our Irish Terrier, she told me___ via ESP, that If everyone here was in the same room together for thirty minutes, she wonders how many would come out with all of their teeth? Then she wondered why Poet doesn’t believe in UFOs? I dunno, maybe I’ll just go away someplace where people don’t think at all.___ Maybe Washington DC.
Concerning the Bush regime’s lies, they work because the media obligingly parrot them as if they had credibility. Remember:
(1) The media parroted the Bush lie that Saddam was behind al-Qaida’s 9/11 attacks. (Absurd on it’s face, since Saddam headed a secular regime which was the mortal enemy of religious extremists. Saddam had zero tolerance for religious extremists: he executed them.)
(2) The media parroted the Bush lie that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. (In spite of mountains of evidence to the contrary.)
(3) The New York Times and Washington Post finally admitted that Judith Miller and others were stooges for the Bush Regime, and they published apologies for not doing their jobs as journalists.
(4) Still undaunted, the media parroted the Bush lie that he invaded and occupied Iraq to bring democracy to the region. (Ridiculous. Bush resisted democratic elections in Iraq. And, what about our undemocratic “allies” in the region, like Saudi Arabia, etc.?)
(5) The media now parrots the Bush lie that al-Qaida in Iraq is the same organization that attacked us on 9/11. (See #1)
Who would believe that serial liars like Bush and Cheney would stop lying after just two lies? Apparently, our mainstream media.
In response to Ms Evelyn Smith. I never said that Kucinich was a capitalist, I really know very little about his personal life, what he does or did for a living, his social role if you like. What I said was that he is in a capitalist party.
The trade union movement in this country also has many representatives in the Democratic Party, it is this party that the the AFL-CIO supports, it supports one of the two corporate or capitalist parties if you like. It begs for crumbs from the businessman’s table. On the other hand, this party is used by capital to temper and control the anger of workers and the middle class and to divert any movement toward independent political action.
If Ms Smith or anyone else believes that politics consists of marking a ballot every four years then then I say Vote for the Democrat, you’ll die or lose your benefits a few days later than with the Republican.
But politics is more than that. It is what happens every minute of every day between these periods. Many people say they hate their choices so they hold their noses and vote for the lesser of two evils. We will never build an alternative this way.
In the main we have won nothing through voting. If we look at much of the social legislation we have today that benefits us it came from mass movements in the streets, from the great CIO uprising in the thirties to the civil rights movement 20 years later. In other words, they put on paper what had already been taken in the streets.
I am not saying don’t vote for any of these bourgeois and do nothing. Believe me, the more along the road to a political working class alternative we travel, the more concessions from either Democrat or Republican will come our way.
The biggest criminals in all of this are the leaders of organized labor and the left/liberal layer of staffers and hangers on that prop them up. They sit atop a structure that has the ability to put forward a real fighting alternative to the two parties of capital but refuse to do so at great cost to US workers and the middle class.
Kucinich should break from this party and participate and help build an independent anti-capitalist alternative, this is the issue. Getting an individual or a few individuals elected is not in itself a solution. Electing one person to anything can only make a difference if that person uses their office to help mobilize the power of working people to prevent capital from enforcing its will on society.
We publish every six weeks or so a newsletter called Facts For Working People. We send it out on pdf. If there is anyone that would like to receive a pdf of the latest issue and/or get on that mailing list send me an e mail at:
aactivist@igc.org
I don’t believe that at all Richard, I happen to be a rabid activist. I was attempting to interject a touch of humor here, to show the vast diversity of the people blogging, few are on the same side of the fence when it comes to whom should we support. No matter who,___ it’s wrong, even if we could end up with another person who is very much like Bush. Some would rather throw their vote to the wind than vote for a Democrat.
No, Rich you didn’t say Kunich was a Capitalist, you just made it crystal clear that he was in the Democtratic party and they are. The implication that he is was clearly obvious. Then you say he should work for, and help to build an idependent party. If he did that, he’d very likely be writing blogs here, instead of being in a position to submit bills to impeach Cheney. Like I said, we can’t win, no matter whom we support.
I have to agree with Richard in general, and especially when he says “the more along the road to a political working class alternative we travel, the more concessions from either Democrat or Republican will come our way.” This is what independent maverick Ralph Nader has been saying persuasively for years, and I voted for Ralph twice.
I also think, however, that Kucinich’s positions on the issues are very close to Nader’s. The chief difference being that Kucinich chooses to work from the inside. I certainly have to respect him for his performance in 2004, when he stayed in every debate in every state till the end. That’s one way of moving the Democratic party to the left. And he intends to do it again this year.
I do disagree with Kucinich on the issue of illegal employers (of illegal immigrants) however. Kucinich says on his website that we should not pursue fines and penalties against employers who knowingly employ illegal migrants, because that hasn’t worked. If that’s his true position, then Richard may be more right about his being just another Democrat than I would have liked to believe.
Evelyn, I think the greatest obstacle today is the view people have that nothing can be done. yet victories can be had as long as we rely on our own strength and use methods of direct action that got us where we are in the first place.
There is no doubt we’re in difficult times, the objective situation is not good and we are sort of leaderless in a way. These factors ensure that the struggles ahead will not proceed in a straight line, will be difficult and painful. But history teaches me that regardless, there will be a movement. Globally of course, there has been increased opposition to the capitalist offensive, from Oaxaca to Bolivia, strikes in Bangladesh etc. France will see some major struggles in the coming period.
So impeach them, so what. In the electoral arena we have no choices. We had a struggle in Alameda here in the bay area where we fought alongside a number of section 8 families who were being threatened with eviction. HUD was going to eliminate their vouchers. We refused to leave the council meeting (this is women, children disabled) we occupied the mayors office, we leafleted and picketed her neighborhood. We invaded the 4thof July parade. We had a six week direct action campaing against them and lo and behold, the housing authority head went to Washington DC and came back with close to a $1,000,000. Google Campaign For Renters Rights or CRR you can read about this. It is important for activists to assist the working class in having victories, even small ones. We have had no mass movement in 50 years. It is also important to validate what most workers feel in their gut, we cant rely on them or their political parties.
I am not saying we are living in easy times but look at the thirties, no industrial unions, spying on workers, company houses etc, then the three general strikes in 34, the sit downs, Flint etc. We were worse off then but there are great lessons for what works and what doesn’t.
I just had a heart attack two weeks ago so I gotta take it easy; mustn’t get too riled up.
So Chertoff has a “gut feeling”? What did he do, read a ouija board? I can see the beginnings of more hype already, terrorizing the American public with fears of attacks most imminent. What surprises me is that attacks haven’t already been fueled as our ports and borders are open with endless aliens entering our nation. Propaganda is the Bushies ammo and what with poor investigative reports on the main tv stations, they will probably convince the public that al quida or whatever is planning an assault. And they probably are so maybe we should get our troops out of Iraq in order to defend our country at home.
judi, you’re surprised we haven’t had an attack yet? It isn’t 2008 yet. The time for us to get knocked off balance is just before the next election.
Evelyn, sorry it’s all so confusing for you. I too would like to see Dennis start a third party movement, and maybe after the election he might. At least he’s in the debates (so far), and I thought it was pretty elegant of him to refer to Hillary and John as his friends when they were conspiring to knife him in the back. And don’t forget, it was Hillary who brought it up (you’re going to need a really big clothespin to hold your nose for that vote). If it helps to clarify things for you, there are all kinds of people and opinions in the world, and you will do one thing and I will do another. I can’t vote for a corporate shill and live with myself, and even though I believe that if others felt as I do we wouldn’t be in this mess, that’s the way it is. I can’t persuade them to get out of this mess and they can’t persuade me to climb into it. But all of us, we are a small part of the problem. When 50% of the eligible voters don’t vote, that’s a big part of the problem. Especially when most of them would not be voting for the corporate elite.
I rather agree. There is nothing wrong with stating Hillary
and John are his friends. I have a friend that I totally
disagree with - I would say he is hard-core neocon. He knows
how I feel and I rub it in now and then how bad these people
are. A friend is more than politics and his views do not
change the way I feel about the criminals in power now.
I only scanned some of the above comments, just too many
(and I’m adding to that), but if we are talking Kucinich
and third party, I hope he does it as soon as possible after
the early primaries. This country NEEDS him no matter what
anyone (media, pundits, neocons, corporate news, etc, etc)
say. It’s just too bad Americans don’t want to admit it.
I know you are right Kathy, and Kelly told me the same thing you did___ and if Hillary wins the primary, I will cut my nose off.
Maybe God will arrive in a flying saucer, the Sunday before the election. A great big gold saucer and bring Elvis back and proclaim him the King of America. God might even give Poet a ride too. But I’d rather he put you in charge and let Special K be the vice prez. Could I be the court jester? And Rich could be the speaker of the house. Yeah, sounds good. I just got stupid again, it’s 3am, ___Ga-nite.
God Bless America…fuck the other 6.3 billion people of the world.
Thanks Evelyn, but I don’t want to be in charge. I have enough trouble minding my own business.