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Obama Warned Israel May Bomb Iran
MEMORANDUM FOR: The President
FROM: Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS)
SUBJECT: War With Iran
We write to alert you to the likelihood that Israel will attack Iran as early as this month. This would likely lead to a wider war.
Israel's leaders would calculate that once the battle is joined, it will be politically untenable for you to give anything less than unstinting support to Israel, no matter how the war started, and that U.S. troops and weaponry would flow freely. Wider war could eventually result in destruction of the state of Israel.
This can be stopped, but only if you move quickly to pre-empt an Israeli attack by publicly condemning such a move before it happens.
We believe that comments by senior American officials, you included, reflect misplaced trust in Israeli Prime Minister [Benjamin] Netanyahu.
Actually, the phrasing itself can be revealing, as when CIA Director Panetta implied cavalierly that Washington leaves it up to the Israelis to decide whether and when to attack Iran, and how much "room" to give to the diplomatic effort. On June 27, Panetta casually told ABC's Jake Tapper, "I think they are willing to give us the room to be able to try to change Iran diplomatically ... as opposed to changing them militarily."
Similarly, the tone you struck referring to Netanyahu and yourself in your July 7 interview with Israeli TV was distinctly out of tune with decades of unfortunate history with Israeli leaders.
"Neither of us try to surprise each other," you said, "and that approach is one that I think Prime Minister Netanyahu is committed to." You may wish to ask Vice President Biden to remind you of the kind of surprises he has encountered in Israel.
Blindsiding has long been an arrow in Israel's quiver. During the emerging Middle East crisis in the spring of 1967, some of us witnessed closely a flood of Israeli surprises and deception, as Netanyahu's predecessors feigned fear of an imminent Arab attack as justification for starting a war to seize and occupy Arab territories.
We had long since concluded that Israel had been exaggerating the Arab "threat" - well before 1982 when former Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin publicly confessed:
"In June 1967, we had a choice. The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that [Egyptian President] Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him." Israel had, in fact, prepared well militarily and also mounted provocations against its neighbors, in order to provoke a response that could be used to justify expansion of its borders.
Given this record, one would be well advised to greet with appropriate skepticism any private assurances Netanyahu may have given you that Israel would not surprise you with an attack on Iran.
Netanyahu's Calculations
Netanyahu believes he holds the high cards, largely because of the strong support he enjoys in our Congress and our strongly pro-Israel media. He reads your reluctance even to mention in controversial bilateral issues publicly during his recent visit as affirmation that he is in the catbird seat in the relationship. During election years in the U.S. (including mid-terms), Israeli leaders are particularly confident of the power they and the Likud Lobby enjoy on the American political scene.
This prime minister learned well from Menachem Begin and Ariel Sharon. Netanyahu's attitude comes through in a video taped nine years ago and shown on Israeli TV, in which he bragged about how he deceived President Clinton into believing he (Netanyahu) was helping implement the Oslo accords when he was actually destroying them.
The tape displays a contemptuous attitude toward - and wonderment at - an America so easily influenced by Israel. Netanyahu says:
"America is something that can be easily moved. Moved in the right direction. ... They won't get in our way ... Eighty percent of the Americans support us. It's absurd."
Israeli columnist Gideon Levy wrote that the video shows Netanyahu to be "a con artist ... who thinks that Washington is in his pocket and that he can pull the wool over its eyes," adding that such behavior "does not change over the years."
As mentioned above, Netanyahu has had instructive role models. None other than Gen. Brent Scowcroft told the Financial Times that former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon had George W. Bush "mesmerized;" that "Sharon just has him "wrapped around his little finger."
(Scowcroft was promptly relieved of his duties as chair of the prestigious President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board and told never again to darken the White House doorstep.)
If further proof of American political support for Netanyahu were needed, it was manifest when Senators McCain, Lieberman, and Graham visited Israel during the second week of July.
Lieberman asserted that there is wide support in Congress for using all means to keep Iran from becoming a nuclear power, including "through military actions if we must." Graham was equally explicit: "The Congress has Israel's back," he said.
More recently, 47 House Republicans have signed onto H.R. 1553 declaring "support for Israel's right to use all means necessary to confront and eliminate nuclear threats posed by Iran ... including the use of military force."
The power of the Likud Lobby, especially in an election year, facilitates Netanyahu's attempts to convince those few of his colleagues who need convincing that there may never be a more auspicious time to bring about "regime change" in Tehran.
And, as we hope your advisers have told you, regime change, not Iranian nuclear weapons, is Israel's primary concern.
If Israel's professed fear that one or two nuclear weapons in Iran's arsenal would be a game changer, one would have expected Israeli leaders to jump up and down with glee at the possibility of seeing half of Iran's low enriched uranium shipped abroad.
Instead, they dismissed as a "trick" the tripartite deal, brokered by Turkey and Brazil with your personal encouragement, that would ship half of Iran's low enriched uranium outside Tehran's control.
The National Intelligence Estimate
The Israelis have been looking on intently as the U.S. intelligence community attempts to update, in a "Memorandum to Holders," the NIE of November 2007 on Iran's nuclear program. It is worth recalling a couple of that Estimate's key judgments:
"We judge with high confidence that in fall of 2003 Tehran halted its nuclear weapons program. ... We assess with moderate confidence Tehran has not restarted its nuclear program as of mid-2007, but we do not know whether it currently intends to develop nuclear weapons ..."
Earlier this year, public congressional testimony by former Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair (February 1 & 2) and Defense Intelligence Agency Director Gen. Ronald Burgess with Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Gen. James Cartwright (April 14) did not alter those key judgments.
Blair and others continued to underscore the intelligence community's agnosticism on one key point: as Blair put it earlier this year, "We do not know if Iran will eventually decide to build a nuclear weapon."
The media have reported off-the-cuff comments by Panetta and by you, with a darker appraisal - with you telling Israeli TV "... all indicators are that they [the Iranians] are in fact pursuing a nuclear weapon;" and Panetta telling ABC, "I think they continue to work on designs in that area [of weaponization]." Panetta hastened to add, though, that in Tehran, "There is a continuing debate right now as to whether or not they ought to proceed with the bomb."
Israel probably believes it must give more weight to the official testimony of Blair, Burgess, and Cartwright, which dovetail with the earlier NIE, and the Israelis are afraid that the long-delayed Memorandum to Holders of the 2007 NIE will essentially affirm that Estimate's key judgments.
Our sources tell us that an honest Memorandum to Holders is likely to do precisely that, and that they suspect that the several-months-long delay means intelligence judgments are being "fixed" around the policy - as was the case before the attack on Iraq.
One War Prevented
The key judgments of the November 2007 NIE shoved an iron rod into the wheel spokes of the Dick Cheney-led juggernaut rolling toward war on Iran. The NIE infuriated Israel leaders eager to attack before President Bush and Vice President Cheney left office. This time, Netanyahu fears that issuance of an honest Memorandum might have similar effect.
Bottom line: more incentive for Israel to pre-empt such an Estimate by striking Iran sooner rather than later.
Last week's announcement that U.S. officials will meet next month with Iranian counterparts to resume talks on ways to arrange higher enrichment of Iranian low enriched uranium for Tehran's medical research reactor was welcome news to all but the Israeli leaders.
In addition, Iran reportedly has said it would be prepared to halt enrichment to 20 percent (the level needed for the medical research reactor), and has made it clear that it looks forward to the resumption of talks.
Again, an agreement that would send a large portion of Iran's LEU abroad would, at a minimum, hinder progress toward nuclear weapons, should Iran decide to develop them. But it would also greatly weaken Israel's scariest rationale for an attack on Iran.
Bottom line: with the talks on what Israel's leaders earlier labeled a "trick" now scheduled to resume in September, incentive builds in Tel Aviv for the Israelis to attack before any such agreement can be reached.
We'll say it again: the objective is regime change. Creating synthetic fear of Iranian nuclear weapons is simply the best way to "justify" bringing about regime change. Worked well for Iraq, no?
Another War in Need of Prevention
A strong public statement by you, personally warning Israel not to attack Iran would most probably head off such an Israeli move. Follow-up might include dispatching Adm. Mullen to Tel Aviv with military-to-military instructions to Israel: Don't Even Think of It.
In the wake of the 2007 NIE, President Bush overruled Vice President Cheney and sent Adm. Mullen to Israel to impart that hard message. A much-relieved Mullen arrived home that spring sure of step and grateful that he had dodged the likelihood of being on the end of a Cheney-inspired order for him to send U.S. forces into war with Iran.
This time around, Mullen returned with sweaty palms from a visit to Israel in February 2010. Ever since, he has been worrying aloud that Israel might mousetrap the U.S. into war with Iran, while adding the obligatory assurance that the Pentagon does have an attack plan for Iran, if needed.
In contrast to his experience in 2008, though, Mullen seemed troubled that Israel's leaders did not take his warnings seriously.
While in Israel, Mullen insisted publicly that an attack on Iran would be "a big, big, big problem for all of us, and I worry a great deal about the unintended consequences."
After his return, at a Pentagon press conference on Feb. 22 Mullen drove home the same point. After reciting the usual boilerplate about Iran being "on the path to achieve nuclear weaponization" and its "desire to dominate its neighbors," he included the following in his prepared remarks:
"For now, the diplomatic and the economic levers of international power are and ought to be the levers first pulled. Indeed, I would hope they are always and consistently pulled. No strike, however effective, will be, in and of itself, decisive."
Unlike younger generals - David Petraeus, for example - Adm. Mullen served in the Vietnam War. That experience is probably what prompts asides like this: "I would remind everyone of an essential truth: War is bloody and uneven. It's messy and ugly and incredibly wasteful ..."
Although the immediate context for that remark was Afghanistan, Mullen has underscored time and again that war with Iran would be a far larger disaster. Those with a modicum of familiarity with the military, strategic and economic equities at stake know he is right.
Other Steps
In 2008, after Mullen read the Israelis the riot act, they put their pre-emptive plans for Iran aside. With that mission accomplished, Mullen gave serious thought to ways to prevent any unintended (or, for that matter, deliberately provoked) incidents in the crowded Persian Gulf that could lead to wider hostilities.
Mullen sent up an interesting trial balloon at a July 2, 2008, press conference, when he indicated that military-to-military dialogue could "add to a better understanding" between the U.S. and Iran. But nothing more was heard of this overture, probably because Cheney ordered him to drop it.
It was a good idea - still is. The danger of a U.S.-Iranian confrontation in the crowded Persian Gulf has not been addressed, and should be. Establishment of a direct communications link between top military officials in Washington and Tehran would reduce the danger of an accident, miscalculation, or covert, false-flag attack.
In our view, that should be done immediately - particularly since recently introduced sanctions assert a right to inspect Iranian ships. The naval commander of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards reportedly has threatened "a response in the Persian Gulf and the Strait of Hormuz," if anyone tries to inspect Iranian ships in international waters.
Another safety valve would result from successful negotiation of the kind of bilateral "incidents-at-sea" protocol that was concluded with the Russians in 1972 during a period of relatively high tension.
With only interim nobodies at the helm of the intelligence community, you may wish to consider knocking some heads together yourself and insisting that it finish an honest Memorandum to Holders of the 2007 NIE by mid-August - recording any dissents, as necessary.
Sadly, our former colleagues tell us that politicization of intelligence analysis did not end with the departure of Bush and Cheney...and that the problem is acute even at the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research, which in the past has done some of the best professional, objective, tell-it-like-it-is analysis.
Pundits, Think Tanks: Missing the Point
As you may have noticed, most of page one of Sunday's Washington Post Outlook section was given to an article titled, "A Nuclear Iran: Would America Strike to Prevent It? - Imagining Obama's Response to an Iranian Missile Crisis."
Page five was dominated by the rest of the article, under the title "Who will blink first when Iran is on the brink?"
A page-wide photo of a missile rolling past Iranian dignitaries on a
reviewing stand (reminiscent of the familiar parades on Red Square) is
aimed at the centerfold of the Outlook section, as if poised to blow it
to smithereens.
Typically, the authors address the Iranian "threat" as though it
endangers the U.S., even though Secretary Clinton has stated publicly
that this is not the case. They write that one option for the U.S. is
"the lonely, unpopular path of taking military action lacking allied
consensus." O Tempora, O Mores!
In less than a decade, wars of aggression have become nothing more than lonely, unpopular paths.
What is perhaps most remarkable, though, is that the word Israel is nowhere to be found in this very long article. Similar think pieces, including some from relatively progressive think tanks, also address these issues as though they were simply bilateral U.S.-Iranian problems, with little or no attention to Israel.
Guns of August?
The stakes could hardly be higher. Letting slip the dogs of war would have immense repercussions. Again, we hope that Adm. Mullen and others have given you comprehensive briefings on them.
Netanyahu would be taking a fateful gamble by attacking Iran, with high risk to everyone involved. The worst, but conceivable case, has Netanyahu playing - unintentionally - Dr. Kevorkian to the state of Israel.
Even if the U.S. were to be sucked into a war provoked by Israel, there is absolutely no guarantee that the war would come out well.
Were the U.S. to suffer significant casualties, and were Americans to become aware that such losses came about because of exaggerated Israeli claims of a nuclear threat from Iran, Israel could lose much of its high standing in the United States.
There could even be an upsurge in anti-Semitism, as Americans conclude that officials with dual loyalties in Congress and the executive branch threw our troops into a war provoked, on false pretenses, by Likudniks for their own narrow purposes.
We do not have a sense that major players in Tel Aviv or in Washington are sufficiently sensitive to these critical factors.
You are in position to prevent this unfortunate, but likely chain reaction. We allow for the possibility that Israeli military action might not lead to a major regional war, but we consider the chances of that much less than even.
Footnote: VIPS Experience
We VIPS have found ourselves in this position before. We prepared our first Memorandum for the President on the afternoon of February 5, 2003 after Colin Powell's speech at the UN.
We had been watching how our profession was being corrupted into serving up faux intelligence that was later criticized (correctly) as "uncorroborated, contradicted, and nonexistent" - adjectives used by former Senate Intelligence Committee chair Jay Rockefeller after a five-year investigation by his committee.
As Powell spoke, we decided collectively that the responsible thing to do was to try to warn the President before he acted on misguided advice to attack Iraq. Unlike Powell, we did not claim that our analysis was "irrefutable and undeniable." We did conclude with this warning:
"After watching Secretary Powell today, we are convinced that you
would be well served if you widened the discussion ... beyond the circle
of those advisers clearly bent on a war for which we see no compelling
reason and from which we believe the unintended consequences are likely
to be catastrophic." (http://www.
We take no satisfaction at having gotten it right on Iraq. Others with claim to more immediate expertise on Iraq were issuing similar warnings. But we were kept well away from the wagons circled by Bush and Cheney.
Sadly, your own Vice President, who was then chair of the Senate Foreign Affairs Committee, was among the most assiduous in blocking opportunities for dissenting voices to be heard. This is part of what brought on the worst foreign policy disaster in our nation's history.
We now believe that we may also be right on (and right on the cusp of) another impending catastrophe of even wider scope - Iran - on which another President, you, are not getting good advice from your closed circle of advisers. They are probably telling you that, since you have privately counseled Prime Minister Netanyahu against attacking Iran, he will not do it. This could simply be the familiar syndrome of telling the President what they believe he wants to hear. Quiz them; tell them oth
ers believe them to be dead wrong on Netanyahu. The only positive here is that you - only you - can prevent an Israeli attack on Iran.
Steering Group, Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS)
- Phil Giraldi, Directorate of Operations, CIA (20 years)
- Larry Johnson, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA; Department of State, Department of Defense consultant (24 years)
- W. Patrick Lang, Col., USA, Special Forces (ret.); Senior Executive Service: Defense Intelligence Officer for Middle East/South Asia, Director of HUMINT Collection, Defense Intelligence Agency (30 years)
- Ray McGovern, US Army Intelligence Officer, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA (30 years)
- Coleen Rowley, Special Agent and Minneapolis Division Counsel, FBI (24 years)
- Ann Wright, Col., US Army Reserve (ret.), (29 years); Foreign Service Officer, Department of State (16 years)
- Posted in



185 Comments so far
Show AllI know I've said this before, but it needs to be repeated.
ISRAEL WILL FIGHT EVERY MUSLIM TO THE LAST AMERICAN.
If an aggressive Israel launches a war, the US should NOT pull their chestnuts out of the fire. If destruction of the Jewish state is their fate as a result, so be it.
They will have brought it upon theirselves.
AMEN
This was graph that jumped out for me;
"Were the U.S. to suffer significant casualties, and were Americans to become aware that such losses came about because of exaggerated Israeli claims of a nuclear threat from Iran, Israel could lose much of its high standing in the United States"
By all means, the Zionists should attack Iran--it would be the last nail in the demise of the Zionist state.
That jumped out at me too, but for a different reason. Most Americans tend to rally 'round the flag when war breaks out. Only after several years (and thousands upon thousands of corpses) will a slim majority of Americans wake up to the fact that they are not bringers of "liberty" or "stability" or whatever euphemism for aggression that is used to sell them war. Americans also ignore, or remain ignorant of, the after effects of their military (mis)adventures, e.g. the explosion in cancers caused by depleted uranium munitions and the deaths caused by the destruction of water treatment facilities and other infrastructure. Part of the problem is Americans haven't felt the effects of the widespread destructve power of war in nearly 150 years, 9/11 notwithstanding (key word WIDESPREAD).
The American blu-117 warheads, bunker busters, are now sitting in Diego Garcia, waiting for the day.
Looks like the propaganda about Iran is beginning to pay off. But is it propaganda since there is definitely some insane activity going on the Iranian side of the quarrel? Most Americans know little about Iran beyond what they are fed by the corporate media. No matter, anyone contemplating attacking Iran well fits the definition of insanity. Both Dems and Republicans oppose illegal mass murder campaigns as long as the other party is proposing it. But on the bright side; if there is an attack on Iran by the US via proxy Israel, it may lead to the collapse of the US. The insanity defense afterward will be too late.
The insanity began July 2008! Congress approved 400 million dollars for the destabilization of Iran.....Most of the allotted money was to go to Jundallah.
Senators Obama and Clinton were in that congress! (Almost the same amount Brzezinski got to mount the Jihad with 100,000 Islamic Militants recruited from 43 Islamic Countries (Operation Cyclone) and was used to form al-Qaeda in the 90's.)
Jundallah, last month claimed responsibility for a terrorist attack on a mosque in Iran. Twenty-seven people were murdered! Jundallah is a Taliban/Sunni Organization. Wait a second, The United States is funding and arming a Taliban Group in Iran at the same time it is claiming the Taliban as an enemy.....
You thought that was crazy! One of Jundallah's past leaders was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who after 5 years of torture and brainwashing confessed to planning the attacks of 9/11. I guess the American People will hear how he was able to convince NORAD to schedule 5 practice exercises on 9/11/2001 so that 4 planes could not be intercepted! Wow, what a genius....Of course the CIA could not have extracted that information with their truth serums!
Back to Jundallah, Hillary denied Ahmadinajad's claims that the U.S. and Britain were responsible for the attacks.....as we said about 9/11, "Follow the money trail!" Which was never done!.......So, the evidence was in the Congressional Approval and it was documented!
So, how crazy are Zbigniew Brzezinski and Henry Kissinger? They are crazy enough to convince the crazy American Generals and Admirals that Israel will be the first to attack as a claim of "Self Defense"! Heck, they moved ten American Warships through the Suez Canal on June 6, 2010 with the protection of 4,000 Egyptian Soldiers.......Dr Rauni Kilde, an ex-minister from Finland, claimed that NATO countries were being told to send ships to an area north of Norway in September and she believed that was meant to prevent Russian Support of Iran once attacked.
ZB and HK believe that "Their New World Order" is set to go with just one more major takeover.....Are they crazy with Power and Greed? Obama sold his soul to them.
Unless academics, scientists, and the middle class march on Washington D.C. with millions.....HR 5741 will be "Patriot Acted" out of committee and all 18-42 year olds will find themselves serving "A National Security State" with no choice.
Yes, Iran is next!
Thanks, Herb, for setting Carax right.
Mr. Chernsonsky,the historical facts you presented in the first 2/3s of your post were revelatory to me. Plausible,possible,in character with earlier policy, but in the next to last paragraph you opine:
"ZB and HK believe that "Their New World Order" is set to go with one more major takeover....Are they crazy with Power and Greed? Obama sold his soul to them".
Could you please elaborate on their "influence and power" with Obama and his Administration?
Finally, I was moved with your visionary scenario for the necessity of millions of citizens to actively respond "the old way" in Washington,DC, but the Joint Chiefs in their 2011 Quadrennial Review repeatedly weigh in against the reestablishment of a National Draft---and for good reason---.
Please flesh out your theory.....Reading the Washington Post Dana Priest and William M. Arkin 3-day investigative report certainly proves "A National Security State" next to none!
But so far JCS head Admiral Mullen has said, (paraphrasing): The Military has enough on its plate. Attacking Iran presents too many unknowns, etc. I pray the insanity does not further metastisize.
Is there no reply by citizens that will stop this lunacy? August is still vacation time
before school begins. How many will even find the time to read this editorial of
warning? Are we just worker ants to be crushed by the release of bombs, nuclear or
the normal stuff?
Herbert: Hate to say it but I think you're right!
American/NATO hubris!
rumours of an assassination attempt on Iran's president this AM
[http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/Iran-Denies-Attack-on-President-99928084.html
If Obama sees this, I'm sure it would give him something to think about. I say "if" because his chief of staff, Rahm,"the Israeli" Emanuel would probably intercept it. The job of chief of staff necessarily includes filtering correspondence to the President.
I mean, can you imagine him saying to Obama, "Mr. President, this is something I think you should seriously consider"?
I cannot.
A reasoned and impassioned plea, not unlike a plea made by a reasonable person to a belligerent drunk, asking him not to take another drink.
Well said, except that the drunk in this case is also snorting heroin. Mixing alcohol and heroin can cause a fatal overdose.
Mind you I'm assuming you're talking about both israel and the usa, as they're both on one hell of a militaristic bender.
"More recently, 47 House Republicans have signed onto H.R. 1553 declaring "support for Israel's right to use all means necessary to confront and eliminate nuclear threats posed by Iran ... including the use of military force"
But, but, but, there's no difference between repubs and dems...
Wouldn't it have been interesting if Bush would have died when he choked on a bit of food in the White House? A Cheney Presidency might have really helped the Dems to such an overwhelming majority that even the conservative Dems might have looked at things a bit differently. Of course those Middle East sands might have had a very high gloss finish.
What's the point of the Democrats having a supermajority when half of them will be doing dealbreakers for the Republicans? Conservative Democrats would never change. We could have all 435 House seats and 100 Senate seats Democrat and nothing would change.
True, except they'd have to find someone else to blame for not changing anything.
I forgot to mention that everytime Democrats gain seats, the conservative Democrats suddenly become more relevant when there are less Republicans to blame. What you said makes me want to reconsider the MA Senate race. I think that the Democrats intended for this to fail so that they could have a majority and yet safely pretend that they were in the minority. Conservative Democrats obstructing progress would be too damaging to the party's image.
You make no sense at all.
How many Dems voted for this?
This is a big difference, I was under the impression the the congress unanimously supported giving Israel the Green Light, but your reply made me look it up.
The truth is Congress has not given the Green light as far as this resolution goes, just the Repubs and it has not gone on the floor for a vote yet and the Dems might not even take it up.
http://news.suite101.com/article.cfm/us-house-resolution-supports-israeli-action-against-iran-a266789
How many of those Democrats who stood their ground would have done it again if all 435 seats were Democratic and why isn't Speaker Pelosi using her powers to block this legislation? I mean I get it that Pelosi is pro-war, neocon, slandered Cindy Sheehan and fooled 70% of the voters in her "liberal" district into reelecting her but please. Just once she could have dropped a bone for her district that is supposed to be antiwar. What does she have to lose by blocking the Republican resolution? Or is that the job of the majority leader and what's he doing these days?
Well I don't know what a 100 percent Dem Congress would do but your "what if" will never happen.
The Dems have been real assholes on War without any "What Ifs".
The Senate, along with the 2 lady Republicans from Maine, has approved billions to keep teachers teaching. The House Democrats will follow through. I know this means shit to many of you, but I like it.
Yes,if Obama said the firing of a few teachers was ok, then that was far more important than $10 billion for teacher salaries. And those dirty Democrats, the only reason they're giving this money to teachers is so they can bankrupt the nation and take it back later. I never realized how nasty and conniving those Democrats are. I'm going to have to re-evaluate my entire view of politics now. Thank you so very much, Rich.
Yeah, I need to have links and spend more time than I wish if I'm to have a conversation with you. I don't think so. I've grown tired of your increasing arrogance. I have opinions. You seem to have certitudes. Good night.
Or, he has facts backed up by sources that support the facts, and you have baseless opinions grounded in faith in the Democratic Party to do what it categorically refuses to ever do.
Ephraim: IMO, a perfect and accurate reply. Well said.
AMEN Greg ! You da man ! These silly purists may think they have it all but the only thing they good at is flaming and high fiving each other. Meanwhile, poor Obama. He's trying to do what he can but the Republicans and the purists probably Republicans in "progressive" drag want him to fail. They don't understand why practical trumps purist. This site could use more practical thinkers like you.
Hey, Rich... ever get the feeling you're NEO as "the department" sends in one Mr. Smith clone after another... each relaying the same pre-fab empty arguments? You've done a commendable job of standing up to the onslaught. When facts and intelligence matter, these clones counter with cheap shots aimed at your character or expression.
You may not be able to educate those who have no interest in Truth or scholarship, but your well-constructed posts provide much food for thought for the rest of us.
Your efforts are appreciated.
So are yours, SR.
Indeed.
Obamabot?
RichM,
Thank you.
I second the Thank You.
I've read her articles and heard Diane speak on this issue, and RichM has his facts together.
Yeah -lets hold "the teachers" accountable. What crap by Obama sells- but it sure does focus the masses- while protecting the hawks, crooks, bankers, etc.
RichM,
Spot on.
Chelsea
I realize you are being sarcastic, but you are unfortunately correct. There is no difference. 47 Rethugs signed HR 1553. Got any idea how many Democrats have signed it?
Look it up, numbnuts.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross."
Sinclair Lewis, "It Cant Happen Here", 1935
So tell me how many Dems signed this Green Light resolution?
Israel has been given the 'green light' by the US to start the bombing... all in an effort to keep Iran from getting 'The Bomb' aka atomic/nuclear weapons.
What a load.
That the only nation to ever use nuclear weapons EVER backs up the nation with more than 200 'secret' nuclear warheads as a proxy against a nation that *HAS* signed the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty.
Both US and Israel need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the International Criminal Court in the Hague for charges of War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity.
Non Serviam - I will not serve.
The U.S. wants Iran's oil. Iran won't give it to the U.S. Iran must go. This is their reasoning.*
How to start the war? First, make sure Russia and China stay on the sidelines. Then use a lot of smoke and mirrors; mutter some things about nukes. Maybe get their friends in Israel to help.
Bottom line: oil production has peaked. The race is on for world oil dominance of the remaining resource. Venezuela is next. (If this was about nukes, don't you think North Korea would have been invaded already?)
If you don't like it, stop driving or using public transport or delivery services. Don't buy anything with any plastic in it, on it or around it. Heat your house with solar. Grow your own food using your own green manures as fertilizer.
*no one consults me about these things!
Of course, all this makes our access to oil more precarious than before, so it can't be the real reason.
De-Countrify Israel Now.
"Of course, all this makes our access to oil more precarious than before"
Only in the short term. As a side benefit, powerful oil speculators make more money.
Are you kidding - in the short term, and possibly even worse in the long term.
De-Countrify Israel Now.
I don't. I've talked with him before on other threads. He's just nuts. I think he's one of those people who thinks that because he hates everyone equally he's not the racist.
Rich, ardent and Sat are right,
I think TiredofTrolls is either nuts, or iis in fact, a troll himself just trying to ick up the threads and derail the argument. His pretense at speaking for liberals is as disjointed mentally as many of the right wing trolls in their primer posts here. RichM's point is the most important one we discuss on CD today: that we must give up our pet causes and Unite together to de-throne the MIC and Monopolies and restore democracy and self-government.
And he's right, the history of Unionism last century even included, I have read, intentional efforts by industry to sully the reputations of Unions by inserting mob family members as leaders of the ALF-CIO etc. This divided the workers, half convinced that "Unions were bad" and led to the dismal Union membership percentage we see today; only 7 percent of workers.
A Mom-and-Pop store maybe shouldn't have to deal with a Union, but a Monopoly like Wal-Mart deserves one.
It's unfortunate we must endure all these right-wing posers. In my case, I'm honest about my politics. I'm a left-libertarian, but I can certainly give up many of my issues to join with the far left and the poor far right teabaggers to overturn this slave-ship we all toil and suffer under. (the tea-baggers are a confused lot, however, they are ready to roll, so we need them.)
Otherwise, at our current one percent of all voters, Third parties will never have any decent numbers and can not impact the deadlocked duopoly.
TJ
Boy, you circle-boys are really coordinating well. Sorry, I'm not rising to the bait. RichM has been whack-a-moled so many times it's become sport here on CD. And as for the rest of you, who knows - maybe you'll even convince some people here. As for those who are actually reading my posts and your pathetic responses, they know what you are all about.
And it ain't pretty. You're supporters of a psychopathic entity called Israel, which in no sense is a real country but simply a military outpost for an immoral invasion force.
De-Countrify Israel Now and send you sociopaths scurrying.
A Zionist worrying about other people's hate. You Zionists are so twisted with hate it's astounding. A country founded on the principle of bigotry - what should we expect. And we're to believe your psychoanalysis?
The only path to peace is to cast the yokes of your hate away and De-Countrify Israel Now.
The only reason you called me a zionist is because I disagreed with your bat shit crazy notions. The people who actually are zionists have, in the past, accused me of being a neo-nazi. But you're the 'expert', eh?
Tired, you are a troll.
Right. Sure. Zionists are golden examples of what the left should be. Hypocrite.
For a more peaceful world, for less environmental destruction
De-Countrify Israel Now.
RichM: Insightful piece on American History, past and present.
I'll add this bit of information: After WW1, when several advertising executives from Atlanta (if I remember correctly) resurrected the Ku Klux Klan in a money-making project to sell the robes and all, and membership swelled to almost 5,000,000 members throughout the U.S., the "owner and boss class" used the KKK to harass, beat up, and even kill trade-unionists and union organizers trying to help working people.
Mussolini's Blackshirts and Hitler's Brownshirts intimidated, killed, imprisoned, and battered progressives and trade-unionists, and even people involved in collective farms.
Americans are ignorant, and with all the information available to them in this day and age, there is no excuse for not understanding how and why thy are getting screwed.