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Civilian Trials and the So-Called Rule of Law
I was wondering if someone could reconcile these three things:
From Obama terrorism adviser John Brennan, on this weekend's Meet the Press:
MR. GREGORY: Why isn't [Umar Farouk AbdulMutallab] being treated as an enemy combatant instead of a criminal?
MR. BRENNAN: Well, because, first of all, we're a country of laws, and what we're going to do is to make sure that we treat each individual case appropriately. In the past Richard Reid, the former shoe bomber; Zacarias Moussaoui; Jose Padilla; Iyman Faris; all of them were charged in criminal court, were sentenced some in -- in some cases to life imprisonment.
From The New York Times, September 24, 2009:
The Obama administration has decided not to seek new legislation from Congress authorizing the indefinite detention of about 50 terrorism suspects being held without charges at at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, officials said Wednesday.
Instead, the administration will continue to hold the detainees without bringing them to trial based on the power it says it has under the Congressional resolution passed after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, authorizing the president to use force against forces of Al Qaeda and the Taliban.
In concluding that it does not need specific permission from Congress to hold detainees without charges, the Obama administration is adopting one of the arguments advanced by the Bush administration in years of debates about detention policies.
Holder also announced that five other detainees held at the U.S. military detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, will be sent to military commissions for trial. They were identified as Omar Khadr, Mohammed Kamin, Ibrahim al Qosi, Noor Uthman Muhammed and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri.
So in order to justify giving a civilian trial to AbdulMutallab, John Brennan cites the fact that we are "a nation of laws." Progressives defending the decision to treat AbdulMutallab as a civilian criminal are similarly invoking "the rule of law." The Washington Monthly's Steve Benen, for instance, cites The American Prospect's Adam Serwer to argue that "'it's really remarkable that we've gotten to a point in American history where the Republican Party has managed to make fair trials for people who commit crimes 'controversial'" and adds: "that Brennan has to mount a 'defense' for following the rule of law, the same exact way the Bush administration did, suggests just how far the discourse has strayed from reality."
Benen is right that the Obama administration is essentially doing what the Bush administration did with regard to terrorism suspects, but what does that have to do with "the rule of law"? How can anyone possibly argue simultaneously that (a) the "rule of law" requires civilian trials and (b) the Obama administration is following the "rule of law," when: (c) the Obama administration is explicitly denying civilian trials to numerous terrorism suspects whenever it feels like doing so? If someone actually believes that "the rule of law" requires civilian trials for terrorism suspects, then it cannot be rationally argued that the Obama administration is upholding the "rule of law," since providing civilian trials -- which the "rule of law" supposedly requires -- is a policy they are explicitly rejecting.
In order to explain this glaring contradiction, many Obama defenders -- following the administration itself -- have started to distort rather significantly what the "rule of law" means and what it requires, in order to squeeze Obama's hybrid approach into it. Here's what Josh Marshall said in defending a civilian trial for AbdulMutallab:
The truth is, until President Obama got into office and Republicans needed a new political attack angle, the idea barely occurred to anyone that you wouldn't do a regular trial with someone you had plenty of evidence against.
I was always under the impression that "the rule of law" requires charges for all people accused of crimes whom we want to imprison -- not only those against whom "you had plenty of evidence." If the "rule of law" only requires a trial when the State is absolutely certain it can convict someone because it has "plenty of evidence against them" -- and then allows the use of military commissions or indefinite detention when the evidence is weak -- then "the rule of law" is a ludicrous joke. Criminally charging people only when you know in advance you can win -- and imprisoning the rest without the benefit of criminal charges -- is a sham system of show trials that is the opposite of "the rule of law." What uncontroversial precept of justice ever suggested that the level of due process to which one is entitled is in any way dependent upon the amount and strength of evidence the State has to convict you? None that I've ever heard of -- at least not until this year. If anything, isn't it even more imperative under "the rule of law" to give a real trial to someone when -- unlike KSM or even AbdulMutallab -- the evidence against them is weak and/or they deny the accusations against them?
In order to suggest that the Obama administration is following some sort of time-honored and uncontroversial precept of justice, Marshall claims that the Bush administration used this same standard: namely, that they gave civilian trials to everyone the knew they could convict. Benen says the same thing when discussing the Richard Reid prosecution: "Military tribunals existed at the time, but they were used when officials didn't have enough evidence to try terrorist suspects in a federal criminal court." But that is really not true. The Obama DOJ insists -- as did the Bush DOJ -- that there is a mountain of evidence against Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and his co-defendants such that a conviction is basically 100% guaranteed. Despite that, the Bush administration placed Mohammed and the others before a military commission, not a civilian trial.
The reality is that the Bush administration used a discretionary multi-tiered justice system for terrorism suspects: they gave civilian trials to some, put others before military commissions, and held the rest indefinitely without charges. That's exactly what the Obama administration's policy is. Back then, virtually no progressives claimed that the Bush administration was "upholding the rule of law" by granting civilian trials to some terrorism suspects and denying them to the rest. How can it possibly be the case that the Obama administration is upholding "the rule of law" when, to use Benen's words, it is according rights to terrorism suspects "the same exact way the Bush administration did" (albeit with some improvements to the military commissions and some new discretionary guidelines to use for who gets a civilian trial and who does not)?
It is perfectly fair and accurate to point out that Cheneyite Republicans are being partisan hypocrites for attacking the Obama DOJ for doing exactly that which the Bush administration did: namely, trying some terrorism suspects in civilian courts and holding the rest without trials. But what about progressives who spent eight years accusing the Bush administration of "shredding the Constitution" and gravely assaulting our political system as a result of its detention policy, yet who are now venerating the Obama administration as "upholding the rule of law" even as they deny trials to scores of detainees?
* * * * *
A new article on Obama's terrorism policies in The New York Times Sunday Magazine by Peter Baker received substantial attention, though not enough, in my view, on the most important point Baker documented. Matt Yglesias, for instance, notes that "a half-dozen former senior Bush officials involved in counterterrorism" told Baker that they approve of Obama's counter-terrorism approach but, for cowardly reasons, won't say so on the record. I agree with Yglesias that this refusal bespeaks very poorly of the character of those individuals, though fear of alienating powerful people and potential future employers is hardly unusual for Washington. I think the far more interesting question is why so many top-level Bush officials would find so much to love in Obama's approach, and multiple passages in Baker's long article provide the answer:
In fact, the new president, during his first year, has adopted the bulk of the counterterrorism strategy he found on his desk when he arrived in the Oval Office, a strategy already moderated from the earliest days after Sept. 11, 2001. . . . The policies themselves, though, have not changed nearly as much as the political battles over closing the prison at Guantánamo Bay and trying Khalid Shaikh Mohammed in New York would suggest. "The administration came in determined to undo a lot of the policies of the prior administration," Senator Susan Collins of Maine, the top Republican on the homeland-security committee, told me, "but in fact is finding that many of those policies were better-thought-out than they realized -- or that doing away with them is a far more complex task." . . . Michael Hayden, the last C.I.A. director under Bush, was willing to say publicly what others would not. "There is a continuum from the Bush administration, particularly as it changed in the second administration as circumstances changed, and the Obama administration," Hayden told me. James Jay Carafano, a homeland-security expert at the Heritage Foundation, was blunter. "I don't think it's even fair to call it Bush Lite," he said. "It's Bush. It's really, really hard to find a difference that's meaningful and not atmospheric. You see a lot of straining on things trying to make things look repackaged, but they're really not that different" . . . . A senior Obama adviser scoffed at the idea that Bush advisers see continuity, arguing that they are trying to launder their reputations by claiming validation. But it is true that much of the Bush security architecture is almost certain to remain part of the national fabric for some time to come, thanks to Obama.
As Baker notes, the "tone" Obama uses to talk about these things is different (and that, in my view, matters). Moreover, Obama explicitly banned several Bush policies that were already discontinued by the time he was inaugurated ("enhanced interrogation techniques," CIA black sites, circumvention of Congressional statutes on detention and surveillance). And, though Baker does not note this, Obama has also recently taken some potentially meaningful steps to increase government transparency. But as Adam Serwer has explained, the most important point of Baker's discussion is that there are very few real policy differences between the two administrations in these areas, and Dick Cheney's embittered attacks on Obama (and the media's obsession with them) have done a favor for the administration by casting the false appearance that there are.
Indeed, as demonstrated by the progressive praise of Obama for "upholding the rule of law," the most significant consequence of his first year in office, in the area of civil liberties, is that -- with a few exceptions (most notably torture) -- he has transformed what were once highly controversial Republican "assaults on the Constitution" into bipartisan consensus which both parties now embrace, thus ensuring -- as Baker put it -- "that much of the Bush security architecture is almost certain to remain part of the national fabric for some time to come, thanks to Obama." Thus, a President who imprisons people with military commissions or even no charges at all -- and constantly invokes secrecy claims to shield the Executive Branch from judicial review over allegations of lawbreaking -- is now hailed -- by progressives -- as a stalwart defender of "the rule of law."
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25 Comments so far
Show AllYep, a land of laws, arbitrary laws.
Note the misdirection by the faux opposition.
Green or Socialist
"the "tone" Obama uses to talk about these things is different (and that, in my view, matters)."
It's hard to criticize Glenn Greenwald, but here he misses a fundamental point. "Tone" is Obama's specialty. He used it during the campaign to convince many progressives he was one of them, in the face of neocon votes and policies. In fact, he's a lot like Reagan: get the PR right, and you can screw the people all you please. Tone "matters," all right: it serves to disguise the real actions, precisely as Greenwald points out here.
This is how Democrats can be worse for the country than Republicans: with the liberal opposition defused, they can get away with policies progressives would denounce if done by a Republican. That's the point of the article.
Of course, one could also say that we're finding out who's a progressive and who's just a Democrat. It's perfectly clear these are not the same thing.
The Green Party: www.gp.org.
Next year is our chance to give 'em hell.
(A footnote: in Oregon, the Greens ARE the socialists; the socialist leadership joined the Pacific Green Party when they lost their ballot line. Granted their national party doesn't recognize the merger, and people are still discovering it and coming over.
Broadly, Greens are socialists with libertarian, environmental, and localist elements added in. It's a natural alliance, but there are important differences, as you can see in European countries like Iceland, where the Greens are one of the two major parties, in a coalition with the Social Democrats.)
The combination sounds appropriate and a good way to break through the entrenched barrier. Good luck Chas.
"Next year is our chance to give 'em hell"
I wish it were so, but third parties emerging from grassroots are destined, as always, to fail. The two dominant parties will collude to see to that, as witness a Green Party presidential candidate (Ralph Nader) NOT ALLOWED EVEN TO SIT IN THE AUDIENCE OF A PRESIDENTIAL "DEBATE". (The two parties, you see, stole the "debate" process from the League of Women Voters years ago).
The only scenario that could lead to the successful emergence of a third party would be a DEFECTION BY CONGRESSIONAL DEMOCRATS from the Progressive and Black caucuses. Say a dozen like Kucinich, Lee, Baldwin, Conyers et al. have press conference and report that they are vacating the Democratic Party Wasteland and establishing a Progressive Party. The surge of support would me amazing from disaffected Ds, independents, Rs who have wondered what the hell happened to the GOP. Millions of others who have long since tuned out in disgust would see renewed interest in politics.
The surge of support would be amazing from disaffected Ds, independents, Rs who have wondered what the hell happened to the GOP. Millions of others who have long since tuned out in disgust would see renewed interest in politics.
---------------------------------------
That would only happen, I'm afraid, if sufficient people with a prior awareness of what's going on did the door-to-door work to bring the 'millions' up to speed.
Look at what happened to DK after he saved Muni Light per his campaign promise: the corporatocracy put out a massive cloud of propaganda that cost DK the next election and fifteen years out of his political life.
The old saying about how no good deed goes unpunished was painfully true in his case, and would be painfully true in the case you're talking about. People trying to cope with the everyday craziness in their own and their family's lives don't have the time or energy to keep up with politics even though it costs them dearly not to. Of course, that's why it's rigged up that way--the less time and energy that people can spare, the safer the ruling class is from getting a free ride in a tumbril.
On counterpunch, today, Paul Craig Roberts quotes both Glenn Greenwald and Chris Hedges in his article -- The Law Is Lost.
http://counterpunch.com/roberts01052010.html
Nice job, David Gregory, of once again providing legitimatacy to an illegitimate neo-con talking point by parroting the point in your question to the Obama administration.
Great piece. It's important that some of us think clearly and rationally. And for those who can also render complex truths into simpler but still accurate prose, I am grateful.
I cry (inside) daily for what this country has become. Obviously, if high-profile suspects cannot get anything resembling justice, what about us nobodies who might innocently get sideways of the law or PTB?
Greenwald has made this argument before: that Obama subverts the rule of law by trying terror suspects who are clearly guilty in civilian courts, while relegating those who are not so likely to be convicted to military courts. It appears that there is some basis in history and logic for trying suspects who commit crimes in the U.S. in civilian courts, while trying others in military courts. That distinction, rather than one based on the amount of evidence, seems to underlie Obama's policy on this. But it's a distinction that has become outdated with the advent of al Qaeda and similar groups.
The recent events in Yemen suggest that al Qaeda should be treated as an international criminal syndicate. That would require that those taken into custody be tried in civilian courts. Yemen may try them in its courts. I don't think we're in a position to object to that.
Cynthia Tucker made a little-noted comment on the most recent "This Week" concerning how truly disavowing torture of detainees would promote the gathering of evidence that could be used in criminal trials of terror suspects. She said Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab's father wouldn't have reported evidence of his son's activities had he thought his son would be tortured as a result. This is one very good reason to reject the conservatives' calls to ignore civil liberties and basic human decency, and to let those who violated the anti-torture laws go free. Good thing the father didn't pay attention to Scott Brown, the Massachusetts GOP senate candidate who's suggesting even now that Abdulmutallab be waterboarded.
If the U.S. abandoned the Bush doctrine that terror suspects aren't even subject, in the way they're treated, to basic laws of human decency, and started treating them as criminal suspects entitled to trials wherever they're found, or in international tribunals with due process of law, and at the same time stopped killing civilians and obliterating civilian infrastructure merely because al Qaeda set up shop in their area, we could make progress. For one thing, that would substantially change Bush era policies that have aggravated the problem of terrorism.
Mr. Greenwald, the rule of law applies the the people, not to the elites. The people consented to this status quo by electing elite candidates in 2000, 2004 and 2008, and even before then, when it was less obvious but still true that the elites were trying to get above the law.
Railroad Act changed that.
Corporations' (elites) personage prevails.
Maybe Obama will recieve some official award as a constitutional scholar?
Hey he took the nobel...
"What uncontroversial precept of justice ever suggested that the level of due process to which one is entitled is in any way dependent upon the amount and strength of evidence the State has to convict you?"
How about plea bargains?
I have heard that 95 percent of criminal cases are plea bargained.
Indeed without pleas the criminal court system would freeze.
The criminal court system is a market place. If you got enough money you can bye any level of "justice." No money, you better plea and take what you can bargain for.
Like the rest of our political system, it is Potemkin village.
DCH January 5th, 2010 10:38 pm -- As a veteran of many plea bargained criminal cases, I can say that there's some truth, but also some distortion, in what you say. Plea bargains occur in courts that also have jurisdiction over trials, or parts of trials, not settled by plea bargain. It's not as if plea bargains occur in different courts, or under different rules. Plea bargains in civilian courts must meet certain standards of voluntariness, and there must (at least in serious cases) be corroboration of confessions; confessions alone, whether in court or based on pre-trial interrogations, aren't enough. Plea bargains are commonplace even though defendants have available, if they want them, the full panoply of procedural rights and protections available to persons wrongly accused. People plead out because they know they will get a somewhat better result than would be likely if they insisted on a full trial.
You're right about the approximate percentage of cases plea bargained, and the necessity for the procedure. I can't really argue with the rest of what you say, although it's phrased cynically.
I've had the impression over the months I've been reading CD articles and comments that the concern expressed about due process violations and the use of torture to (supposedly) elicit information reflected a feeling that terrorists deserve sympathy, not hatred, because after all they're just human beings responding to the environments into which they were born. Secondarily, it has appeared that these concerns were motivated by hatred toward conservative U.S. officials. However, lately it has occurred to me that there's a very practical side to extending due process and other human rights to terror suspects (guilty or not). This is, of course, something completely ignored by conservatives. In a plea bargain, while as mentioned corroboration is necessary, in general the defendant's own statements are a necessary ingredient. My impression is that terrorists aren't at all reluctant to confess, because they're proud of their actions and expect to die anyway. They believe that innocents who were killed go directly to paradise the same as suicidal terrorists. They have little reason not to confess their own guilt at trials. It would be contrary to the philosophy of al Qaeda, and an embarrassment for that group, for an arrested member to refuse to talk or testify. Such persons could be convicted with relatively little corroborating evidence, without violating the rights that conservatives would like to deny to all criminal suspects. So the argument that we have to put them in military courts because of weak evidence isn't persuasive. Additionally, as shown in the case of the underwear terrorist, it's really the relatives of terrorists, and the people among whom they live as accepted members of society, that we have to be mindful of. Those folks can and will do as Abdulmutallab's father did, either out of humanitarian concern, or in response to rewards, provided their children or fellow citizens will be treated with decency if they fall into the hands of the U.S. or its allies. The thinking of conservatives would cause people like Abdulmutallab's father not to assist in preventing terrorism, and not to provide evidence that could later be used to corroborate confessions, for fear that the suspects would be tortured. That's a solid, practical reason not to listen to the conservatives, even if you have no sympathy whatsoever for persons accused of being terrorists.
@Buck:
Green is the new Black, careful w/ whom now owns even those dreams. Socialism is the smarter way to control the masses, and 'they' already have well laid the trap.
@Dus7:
"And for those who can also render complex truths into simpler but still accurate prose, I am grateful."
OK: When you own the Law, it's pretty much yours to do as you please. Simple and accurate enough?
Somebody should explain to me how the president can use indefinite detention. To me that is unlawful, what is the thinking that permits it? It also bugs me that there is never discussion of the Bush/Obama surveillance policy. Hasn't anyone noticed that there are loads of people around the United States being gang stalked by police, firemen, and Citizen Stalkers. Nobody in the media curious who these Citizen Stalkers are? Are they from Neighborhood Watch Groups? Are they from Citizen Corp? Are they friends and relatives of firemen - recruited via fire departments (fusion centers)? Is investigative journalism dead in this country? Can the government do anything it wants and nobody cares?
We're a country of laws, Inlaws, Outlaws and Scofflaws.
For unbridled, shameless hostility to the rule of law from one of our very own professional lawmakers, PLEASE YouTube: "Senator Inhofe Guantanamo." Therein you will see---among many other astonishing things (including Senator Inhofe declare Gitmo torture-free, because he didn't see any while he was there...no that is conclusive evidence!)---the cretin actually fret that we can't give "the terrorists" trials because the evidence might not be sufficient to convict them.
Wow. Just wow. Does it go something like this:
"He's a terrorist!!! Lock him away forever!!!!"
"Alrighty! How do you KNOW he's a terrorist?"
"Someone told me."
This is called we voted for Obama and got W's third term,
AD
Times have changed. We have a translation guidebook for all this, you know.
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. And the rule of law is now the law of rule.
There you go again Mr. Greenwald, refering to center/right morons as progressives. Progressives don't support Obama nor did they vote for him. If you need a name by which to refer to these people, by all means refer to them as REGRESSIVES!
Those of us who voted for Ralph Nader or Cynthia McKinney do not appreciate being lumped together with the people who keep biting at the BS presented by the Republicans and the Corporate Democrats. We are people who are trying to affect real change in this country, no matter how much both corporate parties and the corporate media try to marginalize us!
I'm willing to accept that a certain number of actual progressives got euchred by the intersection of their needs with Obummer's lies, though I'd agree that most saw through the BS and voted for Cynthia (not Ralph - she was serious, he wasn't).
That's so, but sometimes it's considered prudent for government to allow itself to be sued and in those cases, we peons *can* sue our 'betters'. But in the normal course of things, you're right, and it's a holdover from monarchy, repulsively enough: "the king can do no wrong"/
In o's efforts to remain on track with w & dick's administration agendas, o will administer law on a case by case basis according to how much his dog irritates him every morning.