Who Will Be There for Obusha When the Floor Drops Out?
Now I’m wondering if I haven’t been asking the wrong question altogether. Maybe the real mystery is whether Mr. Yes We Can will be another Bill Clinton or, gulp, another George W. Bush.
It’s true, Obama has already made a few quasi-progressive decisions, such as removing some of the insanity from American foreign aid for reproductive health and beginning the process to close down Guantánamo.
That’s well enough, and I give credit where it’s due – though I wouldn’t exactly describe these as bold moves.
I didn’t have high expectations that Obama would turn out to be Eugene Debs, come back from socialist heaven (Stockholm?), and so I can’t say that I’m surprised he’s not. But I am pretty shocked and disgusted at some of the decisions we’ve seen so far, including many that Dick Cheney would have little problem praising (in some cases, because Cheney made them originally).
That’s just too much. And it’s also insulting to progressives who worked hard to put this guy in office, believing – minimally – that he was a better choice than either another Clinton or anything the Neanderthal Party would drag out. I can’t say that I donated a lot of my hours or cash to Obama’s campaign, and yet – just the same – I’m already feeling cheap, dirty and used by what I’m seeing.
The cabinet is a starting place. Like many of the terminally hopeful, I’ve been saying for a while that it doesn’t matter so much who goes in the cabinet, it matters who makes the decisions. This is mostly true, with about one-and-a-half caveats. The half-caveat is that a smart cabinet secretary can take advantage of a president who is out to lunch, like Bush and Reagan were. I suspect Obama won’t often be accused of that during his presidency, though I’ll confess that looking at the rollout of the economic stimulus program, and the rollout of the administration itself, this last month, I am way less impressed with the basic competence of these folks than I expected to be – whatever their politics.
But, the other major caveat is the symbolism
of cabinet choices. Why was it necessary to put three Republicans
in it? And, so far, not a single confirmed progressive?
Cabinet choices are usually as much emblematic as they are truly administrative.
We have to assume that real policy decisions come from the White House,
and that most fools in the cabinet will at least be able to get through
four years of making speeches without completely crashing the department,
while their deputy actually runs the show (notable exceptions noted
and excepted, of course). So presidents therefore use their cabinet
in part to make a statement, pay off some political debts, and placate
groups within their coalition. So far, so bad, ‘cause the main
statement I’m getting from the picks of this yet-another-nominally-
But take a look at some of Obama’s policy decisions in his first month in office, and it gets considerably worse from there. Even today, months after the election is done with, Mr. Obama is out on the stump saying things like, “You didn’t send us to Washington because you were hoping for more of the same. You sent us there to change things.”
That’s a big 10-4, good buddy. So how come, then, you keep turning to Wall Street pirates to run your economic program? It was bad enough that you’ve subjected us to Timothy Geithner to run the Treasury and lead your recovery effort. In addition to being a tax cheat and already demonstrably in over his head, this fool is a protégé of both Henry Kissinger and Robert Rubin. In addition to being part of the brain trust that blew the Lehman Brothers rescue decision, he also presided over the original TARP mass looting of the already stinking corpse of the federal treasury. That would be a pretty impressive resume if one intended to earn his living on his back, wearing a coat and tie. However, I thought we were talking about a Treasury Secretary here?
More to the point, though, this guy is the beginning of this particular ugliness, not the end. Last week, the New York Times reported that, “Senior executives at Citigroup’s Alternative Investment division ran up hundreds of millions of dollars in losses last year on their esoteric collection of investments, including real estate funds and private highway construction projects — even as they collected seven-figure salaries and bonuses. Now the Obama administration has turned to that Citigroup division — twice — for high-level advisers.” Oh boy.
What a shock, then, that even while Obama was pretending to show a wee flash of anger at corporate predators partying on the public nickel the other week, his administration was busy eviscerating the pathetic limitations on compensation it was barely applying in the first place. By the time you get through reading all the caveats, you realize that the $500,000 salary limitation applies to almost no one, and means almost nothing when it comes to those it does apply to. But that’s only the third best part of this charade, however. The second best is that even these absolutely paper-thin sanctions on the compensation of executives of failed corporations now sucking the federal teat first have to be approved by a vote of shareholders in order to apply. But – and this is my very favorite part – did I mention that the vote is non-binding?
It actually gets even worse, yet. Now the AP is reporting that, in the wake of Congress’ stimulus legislation (and you know what bloody socialists those folks are!), the Obama team is looking to play extra-super-double-sweet nicey-nice with the pirates from Corporate Wonderland: “Facing a stricter approach to limiting executive bonuses than it had favored, the Obama administration wants to revise that part of the stimulus package even after it becomes law, White House officials said Sunday”. Obama doesn’t want compensation restrictions to apply to all banks on the government dole. Rather, CEOs who crashed those companies and are now living off the taxpayers they spent decades deriding from the vaunted perch of the free market ideological soapbox can still take all they want, thank you very much, unless they are among the unlucky infinitesimally few getting “exceptional assistance” from Barack, Inc.
Apparently, there is some concern that Obama will take Congress’ bill and just do whatever he wants with it. You know, kinda like what’s-his-name just got done doing for eight years. Never fear, though. Barney “The Enforcer” Frank, and his posse of Democrats led by Sheriff Nancy are on the job. Congressman Frank told CBS the other day: “This is not an option. This is not, frankly, the Bush administration, where they’re going to issue a signing statement and refuse to enforce it.” Given that, seemingly by his own admission, Democrats in Congress will do nothing to reign in imperial presidents, Congressman Frank neglected to mention exactly what would prevent Obama from doing just what Bad Barney had been allowing Belligerent Bush to do for eight years. Call me cynical, but something tells me that a congressman from Massachusetts saying “This is not an option” isn’t going to make the White House tremble in fear, even if they are Democrats there (and only some of them are), and have pretty much long ago gone pro with the whole trembling thing.
Meanwhile, apparently it was young Master Geithner who led the successful battle within the administration not to take away potential third and fourth yachts from the nice men on Wall Street who have caused a global economic holocaust, now reportedly already responsible for 50 million (no, that is not a typo) job losses worldwide. He does make a good point, of course. If you don’t pay these people well, how can you attract such fine talent? Imagine how bad this global depression would be if the average S&P 500 CEO compensation in 2007 had been, say, a mere $12 million, instead of the $14.2 million it actually was! Boy, we’d really have a bad economy now! And don’t you just feel great that Obama is listening to as sharp a mind as Geithner? This is a cat who – in addition to apparently being an arrogant and capricious manager of his staff – opened his mouth for five minutes the other day and caused the stock market’s value to shrink by 4.6 percent. Let’s see here... Arrogance, gross incompetence, flack for the overclass...? Golly, could there actually be four Republicans in the cabinet? Do we actually know for sure that this Geithner guy is a Democrat? Would it matter if he was?
As bad as all this is, I wish I could say that my problem with Obama is just that he is yet another president of the wealthy, by the wealthy, and for the wealthy. Unfortunately, there’s more. There was ol’ Joe Biden, for example, off to Munich for a big security conference, talking about how the Obama administration will continue Ronald Reagan’s dream of missile defense, the ultimate defense industry boondoggle. Never mind that, even if it ever worked, and at astronomical costs which wrecked the lives of tens of millions who didn’t get education or healthcare instead, any terrorist smart enough to build a nuke or determined enough to buy one would also be clever enough to put the thing on a boat and sail it up the Potomac. This is a trillion dollar gift of public funds to the arms industry that just can’t seem to get buried. I think Reagan knew that. But why doesn’t Obama? Or – far worse – likely he does.
Then there’s the undoing of Bush’s faith-based initiative, one of the greatest examples of Constitution shredding out there, from a guy who was the acknowledged master. Obama has now issued new executive rules regarding the relationship between church activities and state money, but declined to actually revoke Bush’s rule, which allows religious organizations to make hiring decisions based on religion, for jobs funded by you and me. I’m not okay with that, and neither is the Constitution. It’s grim enough that we have to endure these assaults when we merely have a reactionary executive and a feeble Congress, especially when the latter is controlled by the alleged opposition party. But must we really put up with more such crimes after sweeping the ‘liberals’ into office?
Still, perhaps the most galling example of Obushism occurred last week in a San Francisco courtroom, where a lawyer from the new (or is it?) Justice Department was asked by the presiding judge whether the government’s position might have changed for any particular reason (wink, wink, nod, nod) since the last time the court was last convened to take up this particular case on the question of extraordinary rendition. Bush’s Justice Department had argued that the state secrets doctrine required the court to dismiss the case without even hearing evidence, effectively giving the president the right to do anything to anybody, without judicial protection or remedy of any sort. You know – kinda like the script for a Dick Cheney porno film. Since candidate Obama had severely criticized such patently and fundamentally unconstitutional concepts, the judges on the Ninth Circuit had good reason to expect that President Obama might reverse the government’s position in this case. They even asked the government’s lawyer a second time, in semi-astonishment, to be sure they were hearing him right. All to no avail. The position of the Obama administration is identical to that of Bush, Cheney, Gonzales and Yoo. The president can order you to be captured, stripped down to diapers, bagged up, tossed on a CIA plane, delivered to Egypt, Bulgaria or Tajikstan, tortured and maybe even killed. All without any scrutiny by anyone.
Maybe it’s just my weak vision, but when I pulled out my copy of the Constitution and pored over it carefully once again, I couldn’t find any language of that sort anywhere. In fact, it almost seemed like that document, and the Declaration of Independence, were written by a bunch of angry patriots pissed off at exactly such behaviors on the part of the British crown. Could President Obama, the former constitutional law professor, really be espousing the same civil liberties policies – hardly exceeded in egregiousness – as those of George III and Bush II? I guess I better re-read those documents yet once more.
Especially since another New York Times article, under the happy title of “Obama’s War on Terror May Resemble Bush’s in Some Areas”, just noted that, “In little-noticed confirmation testimony recently, Obama nominees endorsed continuing the C.I.A.’s program of transferring prisoners to other countries without legal rights, and indefinitely detaining terrorism suspects without trials even if they were arrested far from a war zone”. And, just in case the sum of the above still hasn’t depressed you enough, the piece goes on to remind us of how the new administration recently offered its thanks to the British government when a UK court deferred to American pressure in refusing to release information about the torture of a detainee held by the US. Wow.
If this was just another president doing what presidents do, these developments would merely be disappointing. In fact, they are nearly devastating when considered in context. This is the president who follows the one sure to be known as The Great Trampler, and this is the president who heartily criticized his predecessor’s constitutional calamities just months ago on the campaign trail, and this is the president only weeks in office, finally revealing his policies, not just his promises. If you care about equality, justice and freedom, there is good reason here, one month into the Obama reign, to be heartbroken already.
Look, I don’t expect any president to be one hundred percent in agreement with my positions, brilliant as they universally are on all issues. And least of all did I expect that Barack Obama would be a full-blown lefty, though I still think events might push him in that direction, as they did Franklin Roosevelt. But here’s the thing I’m wondering right now, strictly from the perspective of Obama’s own self-interest: Who’s gonna be there for him when the floor drops out, as it inevitably will at some point? Just who does he think will rally to his support if, for example, a year from now unemployment is up to 15 percent and he has shown no sign of abating this devastating depression?
Will it be the centrist middle class? At some point, they may run well out of patience, their jobs gone, their homes foreclosed upon, their health deteriorating, their hope sagging, and right-wing freaks incessantly screaming in their ears the pounding drumbeat of failed ‘liberal’ policies.
Does he think it will be those very regressives, who one might have expected to be somewhat chastened by their trouncing in two consecutive election cycles? Because when I look at how John McCain and Lindsay Graham and Rush Limbaugh are reacting to the bipartisan olive branch that Obama extended to them, I kinda don’t think so. When I see how many Republicans (three) in both houses of the entire Congress voted for his stimulus bill, I kinda don’t think so.
Does he think it will be progressives? Well, I can only speak for myself, but one month in and I’m already feeling burned by this guy. If he continues to cater to the predatory rich in this country, leaving the rest of us holding the bag, and if he continues to shred the Constitution as if he were George Bush’s kid brother, and if he is nearly as militaristic as the Strangeloves he just ejected from office, then I really won’t care a bit if he gets smashed halfway through his first term. In fact, I might even be happy to see it happen.
So, if it ain’t the right and it ain’t
the center and it ain’t the left, just who does Obama think
will be there standing with him should his presidency hits the rocks?
When you take away all those folks, just who does he think will have his back in tough times?
The Aryan Nation?
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201 Comments so far
Show AllThe terms "Obusha" and "Bushama" were coined in Rovian think tanks and can first be seen on Freerepublic.
You aren't pulling the administration left with lobbying and advocacy.
You are letting go and giving up by engaging in hyperbole and strictly ideological rhetoric. You are incapable of forming a partnership with other human beings on shared issues, that may disagree otherwise.
You couldn't organize a picnic without seven eleven.
You are tools.
Just like G.W.Bush had the white rednecks in his, and by extension corporate America's, pocket, Obama has the black vote in his, and by extension corporate America’s, pocket. Barack Obama has become corporate America's new chief spokesman. The GOP brand and constituency has outlived its usefulness, so corporate America has re-branded to appeal to a more diverse population; Obama's the new face, selling the same old poison.
I dunno, but when corporate press shoves someone down our collective throats as they did with Obama, it made some of us stop and question who this guy actually was. We tried our best to tell our "liberal" friends to beware. We posted article after article detailing exactly who was financing his campaign, examples of his lack of judgment, lack of leadership skills -- and mostly we were run off of blogs, accused of telling fantastic lies, accused of being Repubs, or racists, or just plain stupid.
So now. Now that his actions are betraying his pretty words, some of you are waking up. For those of us who saw him for the empty suit he is, who happens to read a mean teleprompter, being able to saying "told ya so" sucks.
Continuing to say the Obama was a Constitutional professor doesn't help. He gave seminars on the Constitution! Hell, I could do that.
And, yes, the corporate media chose him.
I don't hold much hope, but maybe next time voters will educate themselves in larger numbers and refrain from calling those of us who did the research "racists"!
Yes, it's depressing. But I think we must not give up. Just shutting up would deprive people of the opportunity to learn from this. Shutting up is the shutting off of public discourse, is the shutting off of the public mind, is the death of democracy. We should instead hit this home hard, to educate people so they'll know better and act more effectively and sooner. We should remind people how they've screwed up - really rub it in - to make people think so they won't make this mistake again. We've GOT TO FIGHT these bastards! NEVER GO DOWN WITHOUT FIGHTING, even if you think you're screwed, you fight till you can't. MAKE THESE BASTARDS AS MISERABLE AS POSSIBLE, GUM UP THEIR OPERATION AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, DISRUPT TO DESTROY THEM, THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU, THEY ARE ONLY OUT FOR THEMSELVES, YOU'RE JUST SOMETHING TO USE AND TAKE FROM.
change we can choke on. or, maybe, knowing the economy is gonna tank no matter what, he'll save the big moves for then. maybe by then the left, right and center will be totally united by our hatred of free market fat cats and robber barons and he'll have to fire the entire economic team and replace them with progressives. back by popular demand: FDR.
maybe, as the crimes of the bushies come to light bit by bit and obama appears to be following in their felonious footsteps the libertarians can pass out copies of the constitution to other right-wingers and some righteous indignation will build. back by popular demand: the constitution.
blah, blah, blah. i give up. belize looks nice.
As a foreigner I am constantly amazed. This country is NOT progressive. A very left wing candidate would not have a chance in hell to get elected. The European conservative parties seem to be left of the Democrats here. Americans are allergic to paying taxes. How is all the stuff you so called progressives want going to be financed? There is absolutely no will for it in this country. Can you imagine what would happen if for example Americans would have to pay an extra 10% of their income tax on top of the regular income tax to help out poorer, disadvantaged people like the West Germans have to do since 1989 to help out East Germany? That certainly would cause a revolution here. There is no way even a few more cents in gasoline tax can be pushed through to help the infrastructure.
People here don't even really get outraged about the insane money paid to CEOs because there is always this slight, tiny, totally unrealistic hope that they themselves might one day be in that spot and make "big bucks". The most any president can hope for is being in the center, and that is probably too far left for most Americans.
There is an aweful lot of mean spiritness here in this country, from both the far right and the far left.
I think what you say is spot on. Taxation seems like a crime if you are addicted to the fantasy that you are a winner in the making. This is the mentality of the casino. In fact one way of looking at the States is a giant casino with everyone hypnotized by the flickering lights of the bank of coin op poker machines in front of them - certain that their jackpot is coming up soon. Little do they realize that the game is stacked against them and the pit bosses determine who the winners are. And it's not by playing the game of the masses that's for sure. This is the uber-story of America reproduced in every pop culture piece of rubbish from Rocky to American Idol. "We're all winners," or "I want this more than anyone else. I really, really, really, wish I was special and unique so I deserve to make it." It is tragic to imagine a whole nation of Dorothy's clicking their heels together and wishing they could go home. It's not an easy sell to make people realize that if there are only 1% of winners then the country has lost comprehensively. What you end up with is a society like India where you have an underclass of virtual slaves servicing a tiny minority of oligarchs. That's not a model I want to aspire to.
"What you end up with is a society like India where you have an underclass of virtual slaves servicing a tiny minority of oligarchs."
Excellent point.
Who Will Be There for Obusha When the Floor Drops Out?
Two groups: the blacks and the big money. The blacks will support Obama no matter what, and the big money will back him because he's their new face to present to this increasingly diverse country. Obama provides the big moneyed interests with the outward appearance of change; he fits the big money's narrative that they use to sell themselves and hide their policies. The big money controls the media, and most voters have no other place to go. The sad fact is that this Joe Lieberman acolyte no longer needs the "progressives" that he (and the big money media) bamboozled into working for him in the primary and general election. I'll guess we'll have to get creative to stop this guy, but we'll have to do it fast, and make it clear that he no longer has us in his back pocket. We've got George W. Bush/Bill Clinton in the guise of a "black activist". This fight will be tougher than against W, because most of the opponents to these policies are still hypnotized by Obamamania , and easily fooled by images.
"The president can order you to be captured, stripped down to diapers, bagged up, tossed on a CIA plane, delivered to Egypt, Bulgaria or Tajikstan, tortured and maybe even killed. All without any scrutiny by anyone."
Maybe he's planning to use this power on Bush, Chenely, Yoo, and Gonzales?
"No more blood for oil"
Yeah, right! LMAO.
one old atheist
When are people going to realize that the oligarchs run not only the US, but the West in general. Elections are just a show the oligarchs put on to fool people into believing they have some power to influence what is going on in their particular country. For anyone to contribute to anyone's election campaign is a waste of their money. Obama's election was stage-managed beautifully. Why do you think McCain and Palin were put up against him? Because they were so awful that Obama would have to really screw up in order to lose. It makes life so much easier for the oligarchs if people are disappointed. There is no such thing as "free" elections in the US. They are paid for by the oligarchs with a little help from the gullible populace.
AMEN!
Yes. It seems only decentralized direct democracy is real democracy. Representative "democracy" only works when We the People, not our reps, are in control. www.ni4d.us
oligarchs give mc'cain 8 and obama gets little above avarage :6 / you take what you can get
edweg
if you think both, business and labor can have their own national organizations you probably wrong / who than be working for business / obama is for free trade that sucks economy dry, labor gets even scarcer and cheaper, business gets ingenious in making money without traditional labor participation and we have more and more questions and not a single answer - or have we / in the course of time we'll all be saying; we knew it all along
edweg
As things continue to deteriorate and the current administration follows in the fascist footsteps of its predecessor there is really not much hope of reform. Remember the formation of this country? Well, we may have to do what was done then....
Peggy
Slavery and genocide? No, let's not do that again.
This is all massively depressing but less so because it is not very surprising. The machine of government seems to be a train rather than a ship. You cannot adjust the direction but only, theoretically, the speed. However Obama doesn't even seem to be keen to hit the brakes. It seems that things will have to get a whole lot worse before they even have the potential for "change".
I live in Vietnam these days and CNN is ubiquitous as an English language news source (apart from sources like this on the net). I'd never really seen it before - oh my god. It's a closed circuit of madness. I thought Fox was out on its own with its drum beating. CNN however is much more ugly and insidious as it pretends to an objectivity that it does not have. They're like cheerleaders for Obama and co. As long as people allow themselves to be ideologically primed by this garbage then it is hard to see who is going to be able to wake the sleepers. Except perhaps, if no one can afford a TV or a news rag anymore. Maybe this is the level things have to get to before we look out our windows to see what's really happening. I hope I'm wrong.
"Tomorrow Never Dies" explains it all, if you skip the "action" sequences.
Finally, a well known "progressive" who has come out forcefully against Obama. I wasn't sure I'd ever see it. Obama is just the same old corporate crap in a new label. It's amazing, and sad, how many people fell for such blatant phoniness. Obama's just Bill Clinton with a different look.
Earlier in this thread PatriotisVeritas suggested putting a small dog on the head as an appropriate response to Oreobama's first forty days. The more I think about it the more heartily I agree.
I have just done so and find it to be a comforting feeling. I have named my Sisu, "Pere Ubu" after the immortal title character of Alfred Jarry's most important work, the first line of which is "Merde!"
Jarry once said, "Laughter is born out of the discovery of the contradictory."
Why aren't we laughing. After all...
Nothing exists.
Isn't it time to ask ourselves if maybe, just maybe, it doesn't matter who sits in the White House? It doesn't matter whether it's George Bush, Barack Obama, or Genghis Khan - their policies are dictated from elsewhere and the job of the chief executive is to implement them. Only obedient presidents are permitted to be elected and Obama has pledged his service to the ruling elite as passionately as his predecessors. If you consider the succession of George Bush the First, Bill Clinton, George Bush the Second, and Barack Obama, it's an exacting science to find any difference in their basic policies. Could it be because they have become figureheads like the kings of old while the real power is wielded elsewhere?
YES!!!!! How do we get the rest of country to figure this out?!?!?!?
"Liberals" are so excited about Obama -- people react emotionally (on both sides of the political spectrum). NOBODY USES THE SLIGHTEST AMOUNT OF CRITICAL THINKING!
When wil we heed the wrod sof Dennis Kucinich and ...
WAKE UP AMERICA!
Thanks, Marius. I'm a Kucinich supporter as well, but I think we need to go a little deeper and examine the nature of the system. It appears that the gushing enthusiasm over Obama has been manufactured in order to evoke the illusion of change. This illusion is extremely useful for many purposes, but primarily because it allows the same policies to be pursued with different apparent justifications. The masses by necessity live on hope. Nurturing this hope is a key factor in the continuing dominance of the command and control system of which Obama is now the visible symbol. Decent people will endure hardship as long as they believe that those at the top truly have their best interests at heart, but require sacrifices of them while the "crisis" is being met. Obama symbolizes the intelligence, compassion, and unruffled endurance that are required to realize this drama.
If you'd like to get into more detail about the nature of this system, you may want to take a look at http://nonviolentjesus.blogspot.com/2009/02/need-for-deeper-analysis.html. There will be some more articles on "false consciousness" coming out on that blog soon as well.
"exacting science"--Yes, a "scientific dictatorship" based on technology and psychological warfare, honed by the players listed above in Herbert Chersonsky's post.
Actually, I don't think there's a need to buy into conspiracy theories. The conspiracy is out in the open, not hidden. I agree that there is a psyops operation going on against the American people, but the propaganda machine and those behind it are fairly easy to identify. It consists of the heads of major corporations and Wall Street banks, along with their minions in government. It consists of those who have grown fabulously rich from neoliberal policies and wish to continue the same policies. No need to invoke the Bilderberg Group or the Trilateral Commission. It's important not to personalize the struggle by making oppression the product of a secret group because that makes it appear that if only we eliminate this evil group, then the New Age will dawn. The truth is less dramatic and more challenging. The ruling elite does not consist of evil individuals who are constantly scheming, but of clever and accomplished people of differing moral characters, who have pursued a strategy that has resulted in great personal success. That success has been accomplished in a particular economic and political system that they wish to preserve because by preserving it, they can preserve their wealth and sense of accomplishment. So far their strategy seems to be working extremely well.
Who said the conspiracy wasn't in the open--at least for some?? And why not bring up the Bilderberg Group, the Trilateral Commission, The Council on Foreign Relations, or any of the other exclusive and secretive clubs (at least secret to the extent possible)?? This isn't just about doing lunch or a game of tennis. The members of these groups are players...and they do conspire, although I doubt that they catch themselves, pause and say, "Ooh noo, I think we're conspiring". You're right in the sense that there's a broad range of interaction and channels for doing business, but at the same time you can't discount the roles of these exclusive (and secretive)(and compartmentalized) groups. I don't think myself or any of the other posters concerning this topic have tried-- "to personalize the struggle by making oppression the product of a secret group"...and that "if only we eliminate this evil group, then the New Age will dawn." That came from you, not me or anyone else. "New Agey,...Conspiracy Theorist"--what else can we conjure up. Now let's talk about the "ruling elite", who you say--"does not consist of evil individuals who are constantly scheming, but of clever and accomplished people of differing moral characters, who have pursued a strategy that has resulted in great personal success. That success has been accomplished in a particular economic and political system that they wish to preserve because by preserving it, they can preserve their wealth and sense of accomplishment. So far their strategy seems to be working extremely well."-- That is PRECIOUS!!! But I think you go a little overboard in your generosity for the "ruling elite". Sure there's human nature, animal nature, Mother Nature, whatever. There was a time when I never pondered the existence or nature of evil too much, but at this point I'm going to have to call it something, and I think it will be called evil. Sure, well-intentioned people can get caught up with harmful influences and while trying to preserve their "wealth and sense of accomplishment" hit the slippery slope of corruptibility. DUH! I think we're concerned about something just a little more serious here. Your "ruling elite" has written it down, verbalized it, and expressed one way and another what they think of their perceived inferiors and how they intend to deal with us. You are correct--that is no secret, except to those glued to the TV and Entertainment Tonight. I'm thinking of the editor of a weekly alternative publication in the area. He practices pretzel logic editorials and doesn't take stock in the good/evil thing. Bush is not evil. Cheney is not evil. They're just "misguided". How would you propose dealing with the ruling elites--just keep looking forward, not back? Now that is what I would call "waiting for the New Age" to suddenly appear.
There is a method in his madness.
He has a few problems to solve before he can really do what he/we want.
The financial meltdown.
The War in Afghanistan.
The War in Iraq.
Any one of those may be intractable, maybe all. When the ship is sinking you can't redesign the power system.
W left this mess, as he does everything in his life, to someone else to clean up. Only this time his Daddy can't bail him out of it, with money from Daddy's friends, so the American people have to do it.
Obama has to clean it up now and it may take a while, but slow and steady wins the race. Give the guy some time, it took W eight years to get us in this Hole, it may take just as long to get out.
Funny, when George H. W. Bush was in office we had the S&L meltdown, and now with George W. Bush we have the Mortgage meltdown.
When George H. W. Bush was in office we had the Invasion of Panama and Iraq, and with George W. Bush we have the Invasion of Afganistan and Iraq.
Electing Republicans, especially Bush's, isn't good for the Economy or the Military.
So, you do not consider President Obama capable of multitasking? Nor do you question whether a military solution is at all possible? Further you leave vacant the actions already taken by this neophyte leader, actions like pouring billions upon billions down the same rat hole, and with the same results, a still sinking economy. But at least he is rewarding all those hundreds of millions in contributions that bought him the job!
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so." Bertrand Russell
I wish that I did not know so much....
There is no "Hope" !!!!! Unless you have studied "The Bilderberg Club" and its sub-groups: Tri Lateral Commission, Skull and Bones, Council on Foreign Relations, Masonic Lodges and the "Think Tanks" they control, you could not comprehend the control those groups have had over world governments.
Most of Obama's major appointees were attendees or invitees of the Bilderberg Club in the past three or four years.
DOD, investigating itself, just claimed, "Guantanamo is a humane prison." The DOJ recently affirmed the status "National Security" trumps "The U.S. Constitution"and everyone handling the stimulus is from "The Robber Barons of Wall Street¨.....
No one talks about bringing back the manufacturing jobs. No one talks about taxing multi millionaires 50% over two million in income. No one talks about the trillions of dollars hidden in foreign accounts to avoid paying taxes. No one talks about the illegal invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan to gain control of the oil fields......No one talks about 1 million dead Iraqis and 4 million homeless. No one talks about a 10.7 TRILLION DOLLAR National Debt.
Obama says, "We must look forward." I say start with the demolition of World Trade Center #7 and get back all the money companies earned and stole during the following eight years. From Mobil Exxon to Halliburton and from Ken Lay (Where did the money go?) to Dick Cheney, the money they acquired was through illegal or immoral methods using the murders of almost 3,000 human beings to advance their "Project For A New American Century"
I agree with your post completely, herbert r chernonsky. Many great points there, thank you!
The globalists want military intervention in Sudan not because they give a shit about a million more dead blacks; no, because more death and mayhem is occurring in the Congo, though the corporate press doesn't talk about that. It's about China's oil development and infrastructure projects in Sudan, and the Brezinsky crowd that advises Obama (another Bilderburger like Obama) needs their global hegomony over China and Russia. Every international move Obama makes is for global control, using whatever slogan and lie necessary to get popular support (even if the media must lie about there being no support whatsoever).
The same people pushing fiat money, FEMA centers, genetically modified food, corporate monocultures of mind and space, DU, nuclear energy, fossil fuel dependence, $1trillion/per year US military expenditure, mercury tainted vaccines and high fructose corn syrup, and a public education system that has destroyed critical thinking skills as well as removing civics instruction and PE -- these same people and foundation fronts love us so much that they want to save the planet via a fraudulent international carbon tax paid to a new global bank that trumps every nations' laws. The CFR does not give a damn about you or the quality of human life. This is about CONTROL --- and much worse soon to come.
The false flags of OKC and 9/11 were central catalyzing events for the federal usurpation of states' rights in the US, the investigations into which have been completely whitewashed and sanitized and corporate press promoted. All to protect the hand of elite, zionist, Wall Street, globalist interests behind them. The roll out of the "green" police state we see, that calls for a 90% reduction in human population by 2050, has been in the works, in various foundation white papers, since the early 1960s. Just wait to see our FEMA camps, incinerators, and bioweapons labs turned against the US people. This economic collapse and consolidation is merely a segueway to a deeper and more destructive luciferian aspiration.
Ask your reps why we've been under 8 years of national emergency, without Congress's review or consent as required every 6 months by law.
http://www.rockcreekfreepress.com/
http://www.globalresearch.ca/
http://www.restoretherepublic.com/
http://prisonplanet.tv/alex_jones_live.html (best radio show in the US, in my opinion)
***
911 was an inside job. Cheney suspended the Constitution via the imposition of Continuity of Government on 911. Congress has been denied access to the COG details. COG is martial law.
Your posts are a great boost to those who have experienced the "paradigm shift" or who are still struggling with it. I am encouraged by what seems to be more and more people waking up to the distracting manipulations and LIE which the Republican/Democrat Klown Show represents. Thanks.
"...He has a few problems to solve before he can really do what he/we want.
The financial meltdown.
The War in Afghanistan.
The War in Iraq..."
--------------------
You're overlooking the "minor detail" that in EACH of these areas, Obama is basically continuing Bush Jr's policy, as opposed to "cleaning it up."
In the financial meltdown, he is shoveling trillions to the banks, just as Bush did. The only difference is that Obama's grandstanding is more skillfully 2-faced (for instance, his fake salary limits for CEO's), making it harder to see that he, too, is defending the banksters' interests.
In the Afghan war, his policy is even worse than Bush Jr's. He is not only continuing this immoral unjustified unwinnable war, he is escalating it, murdering civilians, & risking the stability of Pakistan in the process.
In Iraq, he is "consulting with his commanders on the ground." Nothing has yet come out of this showing the slightest serious intention of getting out of Iraq. Meanwhile, there are still the same number of US troops & mercenaries in Iraq as there were under Bush, Iraq is still a mess, & in the context of the "War on Terror," Obama has reaffirmed numerous Bush positions [such as CIA rendering anyone to other countries to be tortured; & US jailing people in overseas prisons, & holding them indefinitely without any legal protections]. (See top article on today's Bagram decision.)
Johnco, perhaps you should read the latest headline on this site, "Obama: No Justice for Bagram Prisoners". Then see "Taxi to the Dark Side"...
joehope, my friend you are blind. He'd have no friends in the Republican party if he were doing right by the people.
I don't feel burned as I am not surprised at Obama's MOR-ness. I never had any illusions about the man, which is why I voted for Nader.
However, he's only been in power a month, and we have yet to hit rock bottom, which is when the people usually start rising up because they have nowhere left to go.
Most of the people want all those radical socialist ideas the D's and R's fear with all their hearts.
Nothing like a good lip flapping from a chief polly-sigher to send all the polly-sigh wanna bees into a swoon.
Ah, me! Poor I!!
Oh, the history! Ah, the ironic!!
Behold the histrionic!!!
What did you think a crumbling empire would look like…would feel like?
Do you really think someone’s “in charge”??
nothing is revealed
excellent irony rob o
I'd like to say I told you so, but the truth is I'm glad someone who voted for Obama has seen his first month for what it is, and maybe realized the error of his ways. The question for those in this position is, will this change your vote the next time around? Or will you use the same arguments to support Obama again? (by "you" I'm specifically referring to Obama voters who don't like what they see, most people on this site already support voting third party).
Will Obama be the guy who pushes over his loyal girlfriend Betty and invites Veronica to the prom, only to be stood up at the final hour when she goes out with Reggie?
Joe
I read an article last summer (I think) written by the former Green-Party candidate for mayor of San Francisco. The title was, "What do these people have to do to lose your vote". Something to that effect. It was a compelling litany of Democratic Party egregiousness, not too different than that listed above. The difference being that this summer the past was being described and now it's the present.
What DO they have to do to lose your vote?
In reality, Orwell's 1984 was the blueprint and vocabulary builder for the 'doublespeak' in use today. the society depicted in 1984 is almost here, just a few more details. Reread it and tell me I'm wrong.
Oceania forever!!! Neverending war is good!!!!
I was hopeful for a miracle, but it looks like it's not going to happen. Obama doesn't have it from the git-go. His vision is just the same old same old with a little 'liberal' rhetoric gloss.
I voted for Nader.
GREEN ON THE COUCH: THIS ISN'T ABOUT BEING DISSAPOINTED IN OBAMA; IT'S ABOUT RATIONALIZING HIS REJECTION OF A VOTE FOR NADER
Being pissed and picturing progressives not being there when Obama "hits the rocks" is the puerile, defeated fantasy of the neglected progressive spouse after - predictably - a Democrat has ditched you again.
'But I gave you my money, my time. Blubber sob sob sob.' What a laugh.
And yet, actually, Green has little reason to be disappointed because he saw it coming clearly(SEE link).
So why is he bitching and moaning now? Because railing at Obama is a distractor - the real point is rationalizing his rejection of a progressive vote for Nader:
"It's easy enough to be disappointed, especially for progressives, but mostly if you're so unrealistic that you'd rather be one hundred percent politically pure than have a chance to govern...If we're honest we'll admit that the only difference between voting for Ralph Nader versus demanding that Obama take electorally impossible stands is that the latter is an even surer path to political suicide."
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/06/27/9925
"Now Comes the Hard Part," June 27, 2008
This stuff is just great (sarcasm intended). I have to listen to my neocon boss complain about Obama's recession and all his "lies" all day. Friends and relatives constantly watch Fox News pundits tear at Obama's policies. Now, only a few weeks into his administration the progressives have written him off. (At least this author and those on this thread.)
The administration has too much on its table right now to please everyone. They have done a good job with the stimulus plan, and have planted a lot of seeds for a green economy. They are closing Guantanamo and will get to reversing the Dubya/Cheney illegal human rights policies. Hopefully Summers and Geithner have learned their lessons from the deregulation of 1999, abused globalization, and non-enforcment of remaining regulation by the Bush administration. (Does anyone really think McCain and his buddy Phil Gramm have?)
Obama has tried to be inclusive, a healer, but it looks like he, the cabinet and the democratic majority in congress will have to "circle the wagons", ignore all this flack, do what is right, and prove to the thugs on the right and purists on the left that they can govern this country.
The neocons are planning on a short sabbatical. So be ready for the next Dubya if Obama fails.
Multitudinous progressives have written off Obama before the election even took place. What's happening now is the we-had-no-alternatives buyers remorse. But yes, you did have alternatives.
I am not going to endorse the EXACT same policies Bush engaged in (read the article for substantive proof) that Bush engaged in just because they are rubber stamped with a D instead of an R. No dice I'm not playing that game, and neither are millions of other progressives, if Obama behaves like Bush he will be a one term President and good riddance. Maybe it's time for the Dims to crash and burn so we can have a real left party to face off against the Repiglicons.
I agree there have been some disappointments so far, especially things like continuing rendition abroad, but the difference on environmental issues is night and day. A quick primer:
http://climateprogress.org/2009/02/19/obamas-first-month-31-days-that-made-and-may-remake-history/#mor...
I vote for constructive criticism and more time for this adminstration to prove itself.
Tell that to the dead people in Afghanistan and Pakistan and homeless people from foreclosures while our tax money goes to the banksters. A piddly little investment in high speed rail and some tax breaks impresses me not at all. Where is the leading by example for example Carter put solar cells on the Whitehouse, hell even Bush had solar cells on his "ranch" in Crawford.
Obama's first month has been way beyond weak.
There will undoubtedly be those muttering "Yes We Can" as they board that train or bus to a FEMA facility called "Camp Hope".
Check out the latest headline on CD!
There must be a full moon tonight.
Sioux Rose
No full moon, nearly dark of the moon. Reading Naomi Klein's "Shock Doctrine," I am struck by what seems like an almost step by step recipe-style set of procedures to bankrupt a country (now it's ours), sell off its important industries/infrastructure, remove all monies for social functions, arrest or marginalize any who might stand in the way of these policies, legitimize torture, allow the state to bypass Constitutional laws, and more.
Either Obama was always an insider, the new face on the same HORRIBLE U.S. "product," or he's been threatened, and it would not be the first time in this nation's history. Anyone who can still rationalize these appointments is definitely a kool aid drinker.
I highly encourage everyone to read Naomi's book. It is not just sickening, or morally repugnant, the analogies between what occured in Chile and what IS occuring in our "homeland security" state, added to the ROLE of TORTURE, cannot be missed. Disturbing does not begin to cover it. I don't think Ms. Klein realized when she wrote this (copyright is 2006) how much she'd be defining the "program" for America, or the degree to which our banks/industries have ALREADY been gutted. And who stands to profit, and this explains why the same INSIDERS are being given the keys to the kingdom as it were, competence and integrity are NOT their qualifying points. Just as Bush had his idiot-team of loyalists, there is the parallel track of slightly more intelligent, but evidently ON the same page peers who only depart from the Bush cronies by virtue of a different initial defining their alleged team (R or D). It might as well be a full moon for the madness that's going for leadership in this land of the increasingly depraved. (I'm writing from San Francisco, a city where VENUS seems to rule. There's no sense the economy is tanking here, from my limited exposure.)
Reading Naomi Klein now there is one we can agree on SR
Sioux Rose
HOOT: Doesn't the book blow your mind? The levels of evil, the experiments in torture that go way back? The same M.O. practiced in different nations, always rendering the persons of conscience, those who CARE about a quality of life for the average person, those MOTIVATED to work towards just ideals, as the enemies and not only marginalzing but taking steps to consciously destroy these people, these GOOD people? And the levels they go to! And just so that the few that already have can claim far more than they could possibly need. And how like dark magnets they draw to themselves the soulless types who are all too ready to do their bidding, regardless of the inhumanity and monstrous violations of others involved. I had no idea of the depth of this depravity and have you noticed how many programs enacted in Chile are EXACTLY what's going on here now? Right down to the privatization of education? PAINFUL stuff to read, and profound to connect the dots.
Sioux Rose.
I have read the book. Once you are done I will suggest a small rather fun exercise.
Google up "Critiques of "the Shock Doctrine".
I have read some of these and they are rather entertaining.
http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/98338/naomi_klein_strikes_back_at_critics_of_her_'shock_doctrine'_book/
This is Naomi taking a few of the "critics" to task. I cant help but like the gal.
Sioux Rose
GW North: I just finished a book of my own, and my bibliography runs about 3 pages, whereas Naomi's runs about 35. She did INTENSIVE research for her book, and in my view is a genius. Her writing style is probably somewhat diluted so that readers can follow her thought process. The linkage between that singular victim of torture and what's going on at times on a wholescale level is mind blowing. It's truly the sort of thing that had it been stated 20 or 30 years ago at a polite cocktail party, would have you locked into a mental institution.
Yes I think she is a genius, and it rather nice to see her put her critics in their place.
They smack of having that condenscending "what can a girl know about economics?" attitude.
I like to see her take them apart at the intellectual level. No children killed with "collateral damage". They are just shown to be WRONG.
All those people who voted for “Mr. Change-Hope-Believe” were fools. If they really wanted “change,” they should have voted for Ron Paul.
It was and is so obvious that Mr. O is just the next iteration of the Bush-Clinton-Bush elitist cabal. I honestly fear he will be worse than Bush, if that’s even conceivable.
I hope all the people who voted for Mr. O are happy. The guy isn’t even eligible to be the president. Has he ever bothered to show us his original birth certificate? Or any personal records that might convince us that he was actually born here?
What is amazing, heartening, and largely irrelevant is that Mr. O appears to have enjoyed the briefest honeymoon of any president in history. I’m reading the words of “progressives” who are turning on him right and left.
Dave - Erstwhile Urban Wanderer
Uh, he wasn't on the ballot in TX.
Nader and Mckinney were only write-ins in TX so I reluctantly hit the Obama choice. We need to mobilize 3rd parties starting on local levels and moving up. Nader for President is right now a pipe dream sadly even when this country seriously needs him.
Inhaling. Ah. The pipe dream. Better than another nightmare.
What's the point of a pipe dream when you'll get nothing out of it? Sure, it'll make you "feel good" but you'll still be in pain. If you want a Nader presidency, and trust me I wouldn't mind one, the only way you're going to come close to achieving one is to start from local offices and move up. You can't win as an outsider where the voting is rigged to keep the two parties intact.
What do you call nothing,Nebraska? If you are trying to move the monolithic Democrats to the left how better to achieve that than have them tally the numbers who desert them for the more progressive candidacy? Both parties carefully watch polling data and any significant drift towards Green Party or Independent candidates would seem to mandate a shift to return them to the fold.
Working from within the Democratic Party is , in my opinion, a useless endeavor as they focus, not upon the wishes of the people, but upon the amount of corporate donations they receive. I personally feel that both major parties are a waste of time, but I respect any who still attempt to move them leftward...What then is your plan?
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so." Bertrand Russell
I did not say that you should only work from within the Democratic Party although that's not a bad idea. Conservatives have been infiltrating both the Republican and Democratic parties as well as keeping prepared for 3rd parties just in case. On the other hand, all you can do is attack others who have different plans. Look, I would have loved a Nader presidency but as JWVerez said, it can only be a pipe dream at this point. You and binban need to first chill down, take a deep breath, and go out and enjoy some sunlight and then your mind will be open to understanding. I said I agreed with the idea of getting 3rd parties boosted but just obsessing on presidential elections for 3rd parties only makes them look bad. You are not being realistic. Thomas More on another thread made that clear to binban and DaveBronstein that 3rd parties can often end up rendering themselves useless when there is no real perception that the public will benefit from them. Now sit down and try to understand how the system works and then work your way around it. Things take time but trust me, you'll understand.
You see emotionalism where none exists. The one constant in your posts seems to be an egregious habit of assuming incorrectly what others think and do....I would honestly urge you to spend more time reading and thinking and less in knee jerk reaction.
I do not attack others plans, I do not attack much of anything unless it is blind stupidity , which I abhor. Quit telling others what to do , especially when you yourself offer nothing of substance.
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so." Bertrand Russell
"I would honestly urge you to spend more time reading and thinking and less in knee jerk reaction."
Tell yourself that first sir.
"I do not attack others plans, I do not attack much of anything unless it is blind stupidity , which I abhor. "
I'm pretty sure if you ever bothered to read your own posts and reflect on them, you sir would realize what a foam-at-the-mouth Republican you appear to be more like. You're just jealous and angry that your man couldn't even make it to 800k votes while Obama made it to a smashing 69.5 million. And Nader's drop from 2.8 m in 2000 to less than 800k in 2008 is an obvious sign that you Naderites are doing something all wrong.
"Quit telling others what to do , especially when you yourself offer nothing of substance."
Tell yourself that first sir. At least I'm offering better ideas while rightwing dittoheads such as yourself refuse to open your minds. You're the rightwing fascist who keeps attacking others who aren't foam-at-the-mouth Limbaughians like yourself.
There appears to be something very seriously wrong with you....
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so." Bertrand Russell
If Obama tries to triangulate policy between the right, the left, and public opinion, then he loses.
The right will be against him no matter what. Bipartisanship is a joke. WTF was he even thinking? The right must be dominated, devastated, and destroyed.
The center will do what the right-wing media tells them to do.
The left will apply ZERO pressure. They are cowardly, passive, and lazy. Remember the stolen elections in 2000 and 2004? They rolled over for it without even so much as a whimper. Disgraceful.
Triangulation points way towards the right.
First, let me say, I agree with much (if not all) of the sentiment of the writer.
However, I think he would have a better chance to win people over to his side if he could limit the seething anger and flip commentary. Not that it is unwarranted - I am deeply disturbed about what is happening to our country (and our world) - but I think the heightened sarcasm and nasty tone mostly alienates those who disagree.
More (or, at least, equally) to the point, how did you not see this coming?
Obama is the latest standard barer for the Capitalist Class. He raised hundreds of millions of dollars from large corporations --- WHO DID YOU THINK HE WAS GOING TO BE RESPONSIVE TO AS PRESIDENT?
There was nothing in his campaigning that would lead an intelligent person to believe otherwise. Other then his rhetoric, he has not said or done a progressive thing. Did you truly belive because he CAMPAIGNED by railing against Bush that he would seriously do anything different? "Change," ahh yes ... we need change. That must have been it.
I'm pretty sure Bush (Clinton, Bush, Reagan et. al.) used that word a few times in a stump speech.
Perhaps we should consider the possibility that the Democrats are never going to be the answer for progressives and that we need to build a third party to move things back in the "left" direction.
With Hope,
MariusP
Moving to the left or even to the right is okay by me as long as we don't put any conservatives in office, a sure recipe for disaster.
Yeah lets pull our punches and just whine that will solve everything. Bullshit what we need is a new Green Huey Long for the 21st century:
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/hueyplongshare.htm
I can agree with that.
the only way to move it to the left is if the people mobilize. they have to be on the streets and ANGRY. But they won't. The left are cowardly, passive, and selfish. Obama will fail but it wont be his fault; it will be OUR fault for sitting on our fat butts behind a computer.
All I can say is that now, I will stand, with love in my heart, I will give my praises to the king and I will fight with my heart. Its time to realize that our selves are not important, sacrifice is key, its time to fight for the people around us, and bring us out of the pessimistic attitude that is bringing everyone down. Optimism will win the day, I hope you are with us when we do. I know one man can not be the whole problem, we need to show our worth, our truth, and bring life and love back into our lives, I think this is the only way to get out of the "crisis".
You're kidding I hope? Do you forget so quickly that the U.S. fought a revolution against the idea of kings with divine power?
Yuck!!!!
First of all, my king is not here on earth. Second, I am not in the government. Third, the revolution was also fought for people's right to believe in what they will. Fourth, I respect your opinion and wish you the best in all of your endeavors.
Your king is then on Mars, Jupiter ....? No kings. No masters. No slaves.
Oh brother another religious nutter:
http://richarddawkins.net/
First of all, my king is not here on earth.
____________________________________
"Oh brother another religious nutter"
Not necessarily, hootowl!
PatriotisVeritas may simply mean that his/her king is on the fourth moon of the third planet of the Aldebaran system.
· Yr Obd't Servant
I say we invade the Caymans and all the other little islands that shelter taxes for the rich. Kind of like Grenada only we just hit their banks.
thong-girl
Excellent.
"our selves" are not important. Perhaps, you mean: "We are not important"? Studies show that optimists are happier people, and that pessimists have better grasp of what is going on. I'm too busy putting "food on my family" to get sucked into more of the "ourselves" feels good Nuage syndrome. When the fit hits the shan, the pessimists will duck. The optimists will call it chocolate pudding.
I need to be optimistic to get through every day. I see and feel how bad it is. I do. But I don't think this is Obusha's fault. I think it is a sign of a critical mass where labour has been so compromised by capital that there is no choice but to demand fair distribution of resources, whether that is through stimulus, revolution or regulation. So in essence, I agree with you, meanwhile I don't call it chocolate pudding, I call it a time to put a smile on and get through the pain. The Finns called that Sisu. That is what I am talking about. I am putting on my Sisu. Good luck.
Good perspective.
I need to be pragmatic to get through every day. So what then I say, needs to be done? I don't need to see the glass as half full nor half empty, but rather sip and partake when needed. Pain will always be there.
You are going to put a small dog (Sisu) on you head? Just kidding. I know what you mean: strength, determination, etc. perseverance. Yes. Of course.
This depression is worse than the 30s. Obama isn't in the driver's seat; the depression is. It means less money for war and weapons. It means the hubris of the powerful won't succeed in drowning out public outrage. This is not a time when complacency pays. This is one of those rare times when the greed has produced such over kill that no one in a priviledged position is secure. Socialization is coming on strong. Sure, the crooks will find a way to milk some of that but, overall, the common people will benefit whether Obama wants it or not. Obama is right about one thing; this is much, much bigger than him.
Prof. Green,
I entirely saw this coming as far back as his not-at-all progressive DNC keynote speech in 2004. But I feel no schadenfreude, only depression.
otherwise your points are well-taken.
---USAn---
I had my reservations about Obama before the election, but decided to hold my nose and vote for him to be part of "history". I knew the fix was in as soon as Clinton floated her own name for Secretary of State. I became sure we are in big trouble when Geithner and Summers were invited to participate in our financial mess. The way the "stimulus" package has been divvied up, there is NO WAY our economy will recover any time soon. The people who know are starting to admit that our economy will not recover until sometime in 2015. I figure even longer than that. Since there is NO MONEY to help out all the people who are losing their homes and all the renters who are being kicked out and very little money to address the soon-to-be widespread homeless catastrophy, I am pretty sure that we are all in for quite a ride. Match that kind of news up with the impending worldwide drought, which does not appear to be on any administration's radar, and my friends, we are OVER. Oh well, at least I can sleep well at night, knowing I participated in a HISTORIC moment. Sort of glad I didn't have children. But my heart weeps for the all the animals, the plants, the fishies in the ocean, the birds in the air, and the children, the children, the children of this world. What have we done to them???
These days all you need to have your back is Wolf Blitzkreig and his stable of AEI commntators on CNN to make pols well to the right of Nixon SEEM """mainstream""" on plasma. On that note it is interesting that according to a WaPost article of 1963 Bobby Kennedy was investigating AEI for violating tax exemption laws given their extremely close ties to the Oil and Defense industries. Just one of THOUSANDS OF LITTLE KNOW FACTS ABOUT THE KENNEDYS THAT SOUNDS LIKE "CONSPIRACY THEORY" ONLY BECAUSE IT IS NEVER EVER MENTIONED BY OUR BELOVED FOUNADATION FUNDED "LEFTISTS" IN THE "ALTERNATIVE" MEDIA!
---
Please read JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters, or people will remain thinking that the Presidents Chosen by Wolf Blitzer will change everything, and we-- as a species will devlove into quivering lime Jello, and not even cold quiverin
MY GEOPOLITICAL BAD DOUBLE POST
Which part of the word risk do you naysayers not under stand? You want a guarantee? Buy a bank. You stood around with your hands in your pockets while the people in the know off loaded risk onto you sheep who know nothing. Now you want Obama to bail your bad judgement. Pshaw!
The capitalist economy produces a ruling class, a handful of men who wield dictatorial power and are accorded material privilege beyond all reason. Karl Marx called them the bourgeoisie. Capitalism demands unity among this small group based solely on an absolute allegiance to profits. That unity will not be undermined by nationalism, or racism, or anything as silly as sentiment or mysticism. Patriotism and religious belief are for chumps who fight and die in their wars for profit.
Former President George W. Bush was a prop of the bourgeoisie and Barack Obama has now assumed that same role. Former Vice-President Dick Cheney though provides an object lesson in the nature of a member of the ruling class. His recent warning of an imminent nuclear or biological attack on the US is alarming for his power to order such an attack. For while publicly Cheney takes a backseat to no one in his patriotic determination to “protect America” he has prepared to live out his golden years in Abu Dahbi. Like the Colts stole out of Baltimore in the dead of night, Cheney’s Halliburton has quietly moved its holdings to the United Arab Emirates.
Neither the massive death and destruction being visited by the US military on Abu Dahbi’s Middle Eastern and Muslim neighbors nor the killed and maimed US soldiers enter the calculations of the Kingdom’s rulers or the Vice President. They are ruling class brothers tightly bonded in pursuit of their system’s lifeblood—greater profits. Barack Obama will never step outside the boundaries created for him by the class he serves.
"I can’t say that I donated a lot of my hours or cash to Obama’s campaign,"
If you had it might be a different story though I'll grant that since Obama and progressives can hardly compete with the conservative money-power, it would probably not be.
Even if Obama were as liberal as Repuglicans said he was, he would be virtually one man against Mammon. And progressive critics are adding to the voices of the conservative opposition that want him to fail.
I think the best we could hope for is that he follows the lead of many South American presidents and rules by binding popular referendum. That has been the proven most democratic way to beat the oligarchy. I hope that these heads of state will make that clear to Obama when they finally meet.
Eze:
There is no place for referendums, binding or otherwise, in the US Constitution. And it couldn't happen because the USA is a federation of STATES, not a unified nation ruled from the capital like most others. "Ruling by binding popular referendum" just isn't something Obama could do by fiat, by Act of Congress or by any other means short of declaring a coup and being allowed to get away with it.
Rainborowe
Check this out:
www.ni4d.us/
Hey Eze, you have mentioned this before and I have gone to the site. But I have to confess, my eyes glaze over a little when I try to make sense of it all.
As I understand it, a referendum is a vote by the people to approve a particular piece of legislation.
A few years ago the city council where I used to live wanted to amend the city charter to allow council to control tax rates, and I worked to defeat that. I believe it was in the form of a referendum.
But this ni4d you recommend: exactly what amendments or laws are being proposed? Who would bring such referendums up for a vote? Could you summarize?
I guess I'm saying: what is the goal, and how will it be achieved?
Thanks. I think one best way to learn about referendums is to experience where they are used. These sites are good for starters:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1435383/How-direct-democracy-makes-Switzerland-a-better-place.html
http://books.google.com/books?id=MSVary9Nf2wC&dq=direct+democracy+in+switzerland&printsec=frontcover&s...
Thanks for the links to the short story. Switzerland is small and old and fairly wealthy. How can we get this type of political involvement going in the wide-open, wild, wild, west USA? Even if we got out there and collected tons of signatures, who would we give them to? What agency would receive them?
I'm not trying to be argumentative here, just thinking about logistics. If we did manage to get people to vote on things like FISA I'm afraid we'd get the dickheads who say, hey if you're not doing anything wrong who cares if someone listens to your private conversations?
But I do love the part where it says that the people don't have to vote very often because their lawmaking process is very transparent. Being aware that the people would have the last word on legislation sure would sharpen Congress.
EZE, Regarding your second paragraph, i just want to remind you that obama had more money and spent more than anyone else ever running for president. And most of it was corporate.
Individual contributions $656,357,572 88%
legend PAC contributions $1,830 0%
legend Candidate self-financing $0 0%
legend Federal Funds $0 0%
legend Other $88,626,223 12%
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/summary.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00009638
That is extremely skewed as it doesn't count bundled contributions made by individuals but given as a lump sum from Wall St. financial firms. Obama got more money from the banksters than even mad dog McCain.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/stocksNews/idUKNOA53525520080605
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00009638
Your Dimocrapic party apologetics won't fly here, people are too knowledgeable.
"... That has been the proven most democratic way to beat the oligarchy..."
- He doesn't want to "beat the oligarchy." He's on the side of the oligarchy, for crying out loud.
I don't know if he is on the side of the oligarchy or not, but he'd better appear to be if he wants to stay alive.
Ding, ding, ding, nailed it in one.
Public financed elections. Spending limits. Campaign time limits. Term limits. No lobbyists in Congress. No Congressmen in lobbies. As Jessie Ventura says "Get in, Serve your COUNTRY and Get Out!" ...AND accountability, accountability, accountability!!! Any elected president owes the larger donators first, the lesser donators last. WE, the lesser donators really can't expect too much. We got what we paid for.
As one who voted for Ralph Nader, I would like to ask: what is the correct name for a voter who, decade after decade, votes for politicians who make decisions and vote for legislation opposed by the voter in question?
You might think I'm going to say "Democrat," but actually, I'm thinking of the special day reserved for these folks: April 1st.
Some people truly never learn. Only fools are surprised that they've elected a slightly more corporate/military version of Dwight D. Eisenhower.
Enjoy.
---------------------------------
I would rather vote for what I want and not get it, than vote for what I don't want and get that. -- Eugene V. Debs
I suggest you read more about Eisenhower's opposition to the military industrial complex before you insult him further with inaccuracies....
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so." Bertrand Russell
It does look like Obama wants to fashion himself into a Clinton-Bush combination president. Green seems to recognize this, although he was supporting Obama pre-election, but then, so were most sane people. It shouldn't come as a big surprise he's now showing what a fake he always was as any kind of progressive. Many of us knew that all along. So he seems to want the best of both worlds--the glory days of Billary combined with the victorious reign of Bush, with freedom and democracy breaking out all over the Middle East and a chicken in every pot at home. It's been so good for the past 16 years, why tamper with success? He's utterly oblivious of the fact that the billionaires he's bailing out on Wall St. are the very ones who caused all the calamity. Or, he's perfectly aware of it but also knows they must be catered to or the only capitalism that actually exists will collapse, and they put him in power to defend it and them. None will be punished, all will be exonerated and rewarded. That's to be the Obama doctrine. Rape, pillage, lie, murder and plunder -- I'm here to represent YOU!
Obusha has a ring to it.
Thanks, DMG. Excellent indictment.
Still a Democrat?
www.gp.org
Oregoncharles
I'm not ready to give up on Obama quite yet. But close. I came to vote for him with many reservations and decided to do it in the last two weeks. But McCain? I still don't believe he would have been better....although as a counter to the depredations of Pelosi and Reid....maybe I'm wrong.
Those were the two choices we had. But I believe I'm fairly close to saying I masde a mistake and should have voted for McCain (God, that hurt to say)
readytotransform suggested he may be a one term President and if he doesn't stop campaigning and start governing....quit abdicating our course to Congress, I'm sure he's right.
I suspect pelosi and Reid have already handed the Senate back to the Republicans. It really takes talent to do that.
You do know all the laws and stipulations rigged against 3rd parties in TX running don't you? Just ask Ron Paul. He had to run as a Republican or Democrat to win a seat.
Cicero: "Freedom is participation in power."
Thomas you are a two-faced lying poser and a regressive traitor to your country who hates the vast majority of Americans who are now economically struggling to survive thanks the the ideology that you truly worship. You would rather see millions of American men, women and children suffer homelessness, deteriorating health, deepening poverty and injuries or death from being at the mercy of street criminals due to their homelessness than delay a tax cut for your own ilk, let alone tolerate a socially just distribution of unused housing to the poor. Get off this site and quite wasting the time of progressives with your snot-nosed over-class drivel. You are nothing but a contemptible cur and shill for John McCain and that's the highest attainment you will ever reach. Go crawl up Dick Perle's posterior and lecture his colon on how neither of you is a neo-conservative.
Where the devil did that come from?!
Now I challenge you: back up your rant or withdraw it.
I do not think your characterization of Thomas More is backed up by his thoughtful posts. One can disagree with the tactic of squatting in empty homes for several reasons that have the good of the homeless at their core. It's a disagreement about means, how to solve a problem, not a disagreement about needs or rights to housing.
I always read Thomas' posts, frequently learn something, and think about them, even if I end up disagreeing. My impression is that he is an honest, kind and intelligent person. If he is a rich man and wants a tax cut for himself over spending to create jobs here, then I missed that.
Joe
metal
Well thats about as offensive as it gets, but I won't discuss anything with a fool.
But I will say only a keyboard coward would accuse me of being a traitor to my country. Something I know by the accusation you wouldn't do to my face. So I beg everyones pardon as I tell you to go straight to hell.
Dude that's not accurate. I have MANY disagreements with Thomas but I perceive him to be an old school liberal with some Libertarian traits who IS listening to what we say here. Try again...
Hoot
That was a kind thing to say and appreciated. Sometimes I wonder about some people's sanity.
Defending you is an almost full time job,Thomas, you rascally centrist you. Please hasten your entry into the light.
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so." Bertrand Russell
Thomas, Maybe McCain would have been better in the sense of creating more activism among americans. I think it could be difficult for people to protest against a president they basically like as a person and it may also make many feel uncomfortable since he is a 'first'. The answer, of course, is third parties. That is, if there is an answer to be had here. I am doubting it.
I think obama gives people a feeling that we still have a functioning government. I have also been saying that he never stopped being in campaign mode. That is what he is good at. But he is no leader-regardless of policy. It doesn't feel like there is a president here.
And for some reason, i keep getting email from his campaign. I never signed up with those people in the first place. And it is all an attempt to give the illusion of grassroots empowerment. I think he has had the slickest PR people in recent history.
p.s. i am a 'she'. :)
Man or woman, it doesn't matter. We're all people striving to heal one another from the divisive traitors trying to ruin our lives.
P.S.: I was more inclined to vote for Nader than Obama but unfortunately, the only 3rd party was Bob Barr and he turned out to be crapshoot. The others were write-in and we all know write-in votes never mattered except for that odd race Strom Thurmond had back around the mid-20th century.
readytotransform
"p.s. i am a 'she".....Oops! Please excuse me.
"I have also been saying that he never stopped being in campaign mode. That is what he is good at."
Thats the feeling I have been getting.
"But he is no leader-regardless of policy. It doesn't feel like there is a president here."
Thats what I am beginning to be afraid of. And thats exactly what it feels like. Doesn't seem like he's even slept at the Whitehouse.
You may be right about McCain, but I still like the guy, but I;'ll have no trouble protesting and working against him if I decide he is bad news. And I couldn't care less if he's a "first" I thought it was a great accomplishment to our nation, a great thing for Blacks as a group, but who cares what color a guy is if he is screwing things up. I didn't vote for him because he was Black, but I take your point in general.
I'm just hoping I'm wrong.
A viable Third party so history tells us is never manufactured as the current ones are, it just happens, as a movement. I sort of feel if it continues as it is, there is a possibility of exactly that. A real third party....wouldn't that be something.
The only way 3rd parties are gonna get anywhere is by first starting out in local elections all over the country and moving up to the state level, then the federal level, and uniting and keeping in touch on all levels. 3rd parties could learn all this from the NRA. They aren't just the most powerful lobbyist in Washington but they have control of all levels of government and are very vigilant. Republicans and Democrats will try to fight this out but like the monied elites, they'll be forced to spend on all levels and then they'll be forced to come clean. While this might end up with those two parties still holding power, they'll be forced to use wisely, I think.
Your strategy is the one adopted by Green Parties everywhere around the world. But there is a necessity to put forth a national candidate as well, if only to keep the brand recognition....
The 2006 election saw Green Party candidates running for more local offices than ever before and actually winning more as well...
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so." Bertrand Russell
"But there is a necessity to put forth a national candidate as well, if only to keep the brand recognition...."
And yet so far, no success or even anything close to success to show for it.
"The 2006 election saw Green Party candidates running for more local offices than ever before and actually winning more as well..."
That is why, unlike the Reform and Constitution parties, the Green Party still has a life. Now all it has to do is unite and stop conceding to the Democrats. I hope the Green Party gets a chance out there. It's going to take time but it'll be well worth it.
The GPUSA has problems to be certain, many in fact. But given the uphill battle facing all such third party activities to break into the exclusive and jealously guarded two party system I would expect a slow and difficult progression.
Thankfully ( well bad choice of words there) Obama is rapidly exposing himself and this will certainly make it a bit easier for the Greens next time out. If only they can unify and quit their internal bickering...typical liberals!
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so." Bertrand Russell
I hope you realize that merely waiting for Obama to fall apart isn't going to help the Green Party alone. Please help them go on the offensive. You wouldn't want the GOP back now would you?
Why do you consistently assume that people arent doing things?
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so." Bertrand Russell
"Why do you consistently assume that people arent doing things?"
Because you're not helping them to win and are in fact belittling anyone who wants to carry after Nader and help out. Turn off your computer and get a life sir.
You are not even making sense...have you no pride?
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so." Bertrand Russell
I have pride that I am realistic and practical. Yes, there are sad things to regret but complaining about it doesn't get you anywhere sir. Turn off your computer and get a life sir.
"...Those were the two choices we had. But I believe I'm fairly close to saying I made a mistake and should have voted for McCain (God, that hurt to say)..."
- OK, let's assume you made a mistake in voting for Obama. Please try to explain (not so much to us, but rather to yourself, for your own benefit) why you now are almost ready to say you should have voted for McCain, rather than for Ralph Nader, as an alternative. Name ONE SINGLE POSITION of McCain's that you deem superior to the corresponding Nader position.
Do it. It will be interesting.
PS - Do you notice that assuming "those were the two choices we had" paints you into a difficult position? In other words, once you swallow that assumption, you've essentially surrendered the capacity to make sense. Inside that framework, the best you can do is hop around on one leg saying that this corporate sell-out is less evil than that corporate sell-out (or the reverse).
You ask, :...why you now are almost ready to say you should have voted for McCain, rather than for Ralph Nader..."? Because the brain washing and indoctrination run very very deep.
I never waste my vote in a protest. Thats something I long ago learned from politicos. They love it when people opt out.
Consider your own stated position's before accusing other people of being brainwashed.
It's not voting in protest to vote your heart's desire. To me, voting in protest is when all those Repugs voted for their own preferred democrat to defeat Cynthia McKinney (House race) instead of voting for the person who best represented their interests but they knew couldn't win. I did not vote for Obama -- I voted for Cynthia McKinney because I am a Green and she best represented my interests. I was not going to vote for Obama because I was afraid McCain would win. Either way, I knew we would get more of the same, so I really didn't give a shit.
Oh no, dont waste your vote in protest, instead waste it in voting for a sham.
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so." Bertrand Russell
Why is it opting out to vote for third party candidates. Couldn't "opting out" just as well be the act of rubber-stamping the two horrible, phony choices offered by the puppetmasters? That is what your politicos really love--getting your vote for one of their vastly overpriced racehorses. Haven't we learned a little something about domestic abuse? Be Free to walk away. Honor your own conscience. Otherwise, you're just part of a compliant herd. When does it set in that our government and electoral process has been hijacked?
DaveBronstein
It matters not one whit what Naders position is on anything. If you can't win an election you are irrelevant. And Ralph couldn't win, not at any time. Thats fact.
There is no assumption that there were only two choices, there were only two....that seems more than clear by any criteria that I see. If it makes someone feel better to vote for one of the third party candidates, fine, but lets not pretend its anymore than a protest vote. A plague on both your houses vote. Thats proven fact by vote totals and Nader was the best candidate.
I assume your point would be that I should have voted for Ralph and gotten McCain? If so Dave, I'm beginning to get close to thinking you were right as I said.
Oh crap Thomas....
Look, if you wish to get to point A and road B goes there do you justify taking road C because it is more traveled? Winning is not the raison d'etre, voting for a platform that mirrors your own view of the correct course is in fact the reason for casting a ballot.
A vote for Nader is never assumed to benefit McCain only a benefit for good government and intelligent direction. I, if given the choice of only Obama or McCain, would have left that portion of my ballot blank.
How long will it be before you see the similarities in the plans of McCain and the actions of Obama?
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so." Bertrand Russell
More pap. This is like talking to warmongers who always say, "War has always been here and always will be with us. Peace will never happen, not ever". To whit, the response is: of course it won't happen as long as you and everybody else keep saying and convincing yourself that it will never happen. Same with Nader, or any other third party. They never have a chance of winning AS LONG YOU KEEP SAYING THEY NEVER HAVE A CHANCE OF WINNING! When will people ever get it?
I got it my friend, you seem to have trouble accepting the fact that our country would never elect a Third party candidate from the existing third parties. The vote totals prove my point I believe.
"War has always been here and always will be with us. Peace will never happen"
Warmongers say this? Any intelligent person would not say that as an absolute, but anyone with knowledge of the world as it is can see its not going to disappear anytime soon. Look at all the wars going on now...what is it 7 or 8? More coming probably.
Kid, you really need to get out and see the real world. Reality isn't reactionism. Thinking good thoughts doesn't really produce a good result contrary to what apparently is being taught in college these days.
TM a reactionary? What makes you really come to that conclusion? He's not "Joe The Plumber" or "JoeHope the Obamabot".
"I can’t say that I donated a lot of my hours or cash to Obama’s campaign"
Congratulations to DMG. The reason that other people DO feed their fingers to the elite establishment for afternoon snacks is because the establishment framing says it's the thing to do for one to join the party and share the spoils. Many people join the party only to share the misery. This illustrates a failure in critical thinking on the part of the people. Suggestion: People, start your critical thinking engines.
The goal for the people is to develop an effective personal policy connected to enlightened principles. By default, give the elites no quarter. For example, reject all elite candidates in the elections. Make them grovel for your support. Throw them crumbs and watch them carefully. Did they invest it to serve the people's interest or did they squander it? We told the Demoks to earn the progressive vote in Nov 2008 they had to vacate Iraq and prosecute top white house officials, They failed! And now look - they still have zero support from progressives. That's a very deep state of bankruptcy.
The elites are parasites. They need to take your energy from you to maintain their elite status. Don't exchange or associate with them unless you have absolute control over the terms. We have a duty to take this approach. Failing this, we contribute to the elites' exploitation of us all.
"in semi-astonishment, to be sure they were hearing him right. All to no avail."
Why should the judges be astonished that the O'Bama DOJ carries on the illegal policies of the previous regime? O'Bama himself spent the past two years in the Senate writing blank checks to the previous regime. Are the people ready yet for self-rule? We thought we needed McKane to get into the cockpit and pilot the aircraft into the lake before the people are ready for self-rule.
The author can shut up at this point. He allowed the Democratic Party to stifle 3rd parties so he has no business crying over spilled milk. Now shut up and take another 4 years of Dubya disguised as O-DOOFUS already !
"Who’s gonna be there for Obama when the floor drops out, as it inevitably will at some point?"
Rush Limbaugh will be there, his tiny fat man's dick barely sticking out of the fly of his $850 golf slacks, to urinate all over Superman's face. Next will be the voters who will make Sarah Palin our first female president.
And by the way, thanks for this: "Bill Clinton – a pathetic sell-out who was the right match for little beyond pursuing his personal eight-year joy-ride at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue." That's the most accurate, short and sweet description of Tell 'Em Willy Boy Is Here I have ever read.
God told me she froze the Banking system because the USA supports israel and opposses gay marriage.
She also mumbled something about Iraq and Afghanistan but the wind was to loud for me to catch what she said.
I fear that the adjectives to use for President Obama are "timid" and "intimidated." At first I had great hopes, then watch them crushed one by one as questionable decisions were made. I remain not sanguine about our future.
It should have been a red flag for any thinking person when obama outspent anyone in history on his campaign. And while the economy was crashing and burning.
CD actually turned me off because they admittedly backed him. I didn't see that as progressive. The same with the 'Nation', which has been pretty centrist since Katrina V. has been in charge of things. If MSNBC backed him, how progressive could he really be?
That said, he never even promised anything new. We had his voting record for heaven's sake. FISA included. People truly believed that because of his personal story, he was going to be different. And heck, he looks different. And oprah said "he is the ONE". What more could an american want? We have become an oprafied nation, where we care more about personal narrative than what a person is actually doing in real time.
It was predictable that things wouldn't change much, because americans haven't. People got scared because the dow crashed before the election. Otherwise, it may have been Mcpalin anyway. If there has been no learning or growth, how can anyone expect change. It was like going to church on sunday and expecting one's life to change. People made such a big deal about voting and were so proud about it. Karl Rove didn't manipulate enough to get the republican in.
However, i don't think they cared that much about Mccain. I don't think they were that invested.
The writers at Black Agenda Report got it right. And right after the election i felt sick inside. I was so relieved to read a piece on Counterpunch by Glen Ford, editor of BAR. It was the only piece i found that mirrored my feelings.
At least there are people who were on the bandwagon and are willing to admit they have been had. I am predicting this will be a one term presidency. All that was put into motion in the past years is coming to fruition. I also think obama is not a leader. I think he is scared, although i don't know what he expected. He did make history as the first multiracial president and that may have been his deepest ambition. And americans got to feel proud of themselves for being so open minded.
Sioux Rose
READY TT: Interesting that you brought up Oprah. The woman is an orifice of infinite marketing, the corporate myth/mantra of consumerism taken shape as a human being. When she gave Dr. Phil his chance, I coined him as one of the the media's ubiquitous "programers." We used to have "experts" on talk shows, but now it's come to "programers." People so insecure with their lives, so out of touch with basic instinct, they have to seek outside human sources to tell them how to behave. And when people are trained to "tune into" these experts/programers, the mechanics for a nation of sheep is thoroughly furthered.
Oprah sure has clout. I am glad that the nation showed it COULD elect a Black individual (or half-Black for purists), but it's such a shame that he's another sell out. Nor am I convinced he had particularly savory motives before he started lurching rightwards towards Babylon.
Of course i totally agree, Sioux. And Dr. Phil is Rush Limbaugh in another form. In fact, i think he is actually malevolent.
Yes, he is like the perfect example of a non human telling people how to be non humanoids. He really is deeply disturbing-on the level of Sarah Palin disturbing.
And oprah is definitely the symbol of consumerism that women are supposed to worship. In fact, she is a corporate creation of the 'Goddess' for mass consumption.
I want to do that radio show, Sioux!
Don't forget: Oprah pushed the government's pre-Iraq-war propaganda. "We're not telling you what to believe. We're just telling you what is." (Nicely enshrined in Bill Moyers' "Buying the War.")
At one point, CD even started banning those who were truly progressive simply because they nailed Obama and the Democratic Party while keeping the rightwing plants.
As far as I know, CD never directly acknowledged, much less explained, the abrupt banning of many CD regulars one day after Obama's election.
The only common denominator was that the persons banned were those skeptical of Obama and the lesser-evil approach to politics.
At least a few of those banned have re-entered using other nyms-- although pro-Obama voices like good ol' Daniel David and high karate seem to have vanished as well.
There seems to be more tolerance of Obama-skepticism here now, but who knows when another unilateral house-cleaning will happen? I only hope that CD's fundraising is negatively impacted by such travesties, such that they will question the efficacy of harsh censorship and overzealous "moderating" and banning. Keep your fingers crossed.
· Yr Obd't Servant
Sioux Rose
OBEDIENT: So true. I think Daniel David may have been the paid schill many of us took him for as now that the deed is done (his man in office), Daniel can go onto the next gig. Who knows, maybe Karen Hughes has a post for him?
The real shame is that Mr. Nader, Kucinch, and Ms. McKenny's ideas did not have a chance to be heard.
As we know, their ideas/views were shut out of the debate.
But, the sheeple are asleep, or to fearful to think about their own best interests.
Alex Jones of Infowars.com is coming out with a new movie on March 15 called The Obama Deception - the mask comes off. Watch it and learn.
The reader should bear in mind that Alex Jones thinks the secret ruling elite of the world worship Moloch and can live forever.
He once said anyone who favors gun control (i.e., most Americans) is a Nazi.
He says there are live AIDS viruses in the corn.
He once said, and I quote, "The government keeps giant, honeycombed hives of children drugged on lithium."
Alex hates Democrats and will repeat any right-wing smear against Democrats. He called Noam Chomsky a "mongoloid idiot." He called Arnold Schwartzeneggar a "Nazi t*rd."
I'm not bashing Alex here--just reporting what the says. I know about Alex because he is on cable TV constantly here in Austin. He has honest-to-God said all those crazy things--something to keep in mind as you watch his excellent video.
How interesting--since you have an established record of being an Alex Jones basher. I don't have cable, but I do listen to Alex Jones' radio broadcasts almost daily the past 4 or five years. I know enough about what Alex has said to be able to label your post as quite twisted and dishonest.
Alex Jones basher? Moi? Those are all things Alex has actually said. I'm just spreading the word!
Other fun stuff Alex Jones has said:
Vaccines have brain-damaged millions of babies. (Based on a misreading of CDC documents. Alex Jones misreads everything in order to keep his fantasies flying.)
Black helicopters are real.
The elite have openly announced that they want to kill 80% of us. (Based on misreadings of UN documents, apparently.)
There are Illuminati symbols on Starbucks coffee cups.
Margaret Sanger gave & received awards from Hitler. (When the Nazis weren't burning her books.)
The United Nations goes around Africa, sterilizing women at random
Power outages are government plots.
Illegal immigration is a government plot.
The counterculture is a government plot.
Vaccines are a you-know-what.
Thumbscanning is a government plot.
Environmentalism is a government plot.
The National Seatbelt Initiative is a bloody government plot.
Feminism is a government plot.
Tollroads are a gummint plot.
Sports are a government plot...somehow.
Antidepressants are a government plot.
Gloria Steinham is a CIA operative.
The Rothschilds funded Hitler. (The Rothschilds did not fund Hitler. Some of the Rothschilds were arrested by Hitler and ransomed back to their family; others escaped Nazi Germany with only their lives.)
Governments are always evil. (Alex has thus far failed to cite a single historian who agrees with him on this.)
Quakers are communists.
And so on.
Hey dickhead traitor Perry logan,
How much have you been paid for those comments?
Alex Jones and other patriots may not always be right, but they usually are, and they are a lot more courageous keyboard backstabbing Good German elitist enablers like yourself.
The vaccines ARE laced with all sorts of stuff, including mercury in many, most likely causing autism, but the class action lawsuit to that effect was thrown out of court with the passage of the "Patriot" Act in order to protect Eli Lilly and Pfizer under the cover of their assistance in developing anti-anthrax vaccines (that Bushco was on one month prior to the Anthrax false flag attack on Dems and other critics of the neocons).
The black helicopters and FEMA camps are real and operational. The military has been operating prison labor facilities in the US since mid-80's, classified for over a decade, and now out in the open, awaiting some larger use. The Trilateral Commission has already authorized the use of Canadian and Mexican forces against the US people in the event of civil unrest, totally violating the Constitution and US sovereignty. But we are now a subsidiary of an offshore banking cabal now, or haven't you noticed that China now owns 6 of our largest ports including the Port of Long Beach, through which 80% of US consumer goods pass through, with security being provided by another foreign entity. Exactly the scenario depicted by Naomi Klein that has occurred in the looting of other third world nations (we're well on our way to joining them).
Antidepressants ARE largely an elitist plot to conform humanity to an inhumane world, to dampen our survival mechanisms, and to make us less resistant to mass slaughter, if it comes to that. You thought Aldous Huxley was the only guy talking about soma? His whole family was into eugenics, mind control, and elite domination.
http://www.galtoninstitute.org.uk/Newsletters/GINL9912/julian_huxley.htm
"Julian Sorell Huxley (1887-1975), one of the outstanding biologists of the 20th century, was a Life Fellow of the Eugenics Society from 1925, its President 1959-62, and is the only person ever to have given two Galton Lectures, in 1936 and 1962. He was also, at various times, Professor of Zoology at King’s College, London, Secretary of the Zoological Society of London, and the first Director-General of UNESCO. His scientific interests, as shown in his many publications, included courtship in birds, the biology of cancer, ants, genetics, systematics, ecology, and conservation.(1) To describe Huxley as a polymath is true but barely adequate. To few is given the inheritance, biological and social, that was his, and he made good use of it.(2)
Although he worked in many biological fields with great success there was a central theme to Huxley’s life and work: evolution. His grandfather, Thomas Henry Huxley (1825-1895), was one of the first to appreciate that Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution by natural selection would transform biology and ultimately influence profoundly many other disciplines. He became Darwin’s chief supporter in England, being known to the Victorian public as ‘Darwin’s bulldog’. At the 1860 British Association meeting in Oxford he defended evolution in an historic debate with the then Bishop of Oxford, Samuel Wilberforce...Julian Huxley’s work for eugenics, conservation, and at UNESCO suggests that he too believed that knowledge should be put to practical use. His work may also have, indirectly, inspired one of the most enduring science fiction novels of the 20th century.
Aldous Huxley (1894-1963) was Julian’s younger brother who achieved fame as a novelist, especially with his Brave New World first published in 1932....However, humans are, mainly, cloned in the laboratory in the right numbers of various kinds to preserve the perceived optimum social class ratios. At a time when most writers of science fiction were fascinated by and fixated on the ideas of space travel, death rays, and similar technological wonders, Aldous Huxley was one of the few to base his future society on mankind taking control of its own evolution.
...As an evolutionary mechanism natural selection was thought by many at that time to be contrary to the laboratory findings of the new science of genetics. More importantly, however, there was a widespread feeling that evolution was, or ought to be, directed or purposeful in some way. That it should not be simply a series of chance events in which the fittest or the most fortunate survived...Huxley was a supporter of eugenics throughout his life but his view of it changed, evolved, between his two Galton Lectures, Eugenics and Society in 1936(7) and Eugenics in Evolutionary Perspective in 1962(8)...
In his second Galton Lecture Huxley was more concerned with the increase in mankind’s genetic load caused by the growing number of those with genetic defects being kept alive by medical advances long enough to breed and the possibility of radioactive fallout producing a new crop of harmful mutations. He argued that it would be possible, and was necessary, to lighten this load by discouraging those with inherited defects from reproducing...
Huxley’s suggestions for positive eugenic policies were far more controversial. His idea of graded family allowances being used to persuade specially able parents to have more children seems unlikely to appeal to any politician seeking votes in a democratic society. He also advocated a much greater use of AID, which he called Eugenic Insemination, and the setting up of deep-frozen sperm banks containing donations by eminent men, Nobel Prize Winners for preference, from which a prospective mother could choose the qualities she particularly admired and would like for her child. Assuming, of course, that she herself could supply a set of genes of comparable quality compatible with those of the donor...The Human Genome Project would seem to be a start, a major step, in the direction of the realisation of our species’ genetic possibilities. Of course, what we do with this knowledge is another matter. I suspect Huxley would have wanted to use it to try to raise the average IQ of the population...A catastrophic event may be needed for evolution to move at an accelerated pace, as the extinction of the dinosaurs gave the mammals their chance to take over the world. It is much the same with ideas whose time has not yet come; they must survive periods when they are not generally welcome. Like the small mammals in dinosaur times they must await their opportunity..."
There is more elsewhere on this project. These people want a culling of our species, as do Earth First! and other environmental groups that receives Rockefeller funding. During Hitler's rise to power he was adulated here in the US, with about 35 states having forced sterilization laws on the books, with judges being the sole determinants for who gets to breed and who not, based on their own racial, gender, and political biases.
All just to say that the NWO is quite real, and that there is an intersection of eugenics, banking, and corporate interests that so far have trumped broader human/humane interests.
***
911 was an inside job. Cheney suspended the Constitution via the imposition of Continuity of Government on 911. Congress has been denied access to the COG details. COG is martial law. http://prisonplanet.tv/alex_jones_live.html
You GO, Derek!!! I didn't feel the energy to put together rebuttals to the long list presented by Mr. Logan, but as I said, I give him credit for bringing the items up for consideration. Your replies are great and concise and your're doing a better job than I probably could have done.
As a side note, concerning the unfortunate yet predictable court ruling on the connection between vaccines and autism, I was struck by the reference to the panel of judges as "Special Masters". How long have we had judges referred to as "Special Masters"? Is this a corporate construction?? From what I got from a newspaper account and the outrageous rational of one of the "Special Masters", the judgement seemed to be pretty much of a sham. I'm going to look up "Special Masters".
Mister Chips,
Thanks for the compliment; however I think you are more than holding your own on this board. The message of Constitutionalism, civil liberty, and sound money needs as many proponents as possible. I wish I had more time for spreading the word about this stuff. I am a union rep where I work, and am very busy with that. It's a fine line pushing non-MSM politics on people I work with. I usually only share the Jones movies and Rock Creek Free Press with people after we've gotten to know each other pretty well.
I used to spend more of my free time advocating for reduced EMF in our cities, like no cell towers on or near schools and residential neighborhoods. I am diagnosed with electromagnetic field hypersensitivity syndrome, and have chest pain and brain fog whenever within a mile or so of most cell towers. I wish I could focus more on that work, but this economic collapse and all this militarization will be the end of us anyway, with or without the genetic damage, mental dysfunction, and serotonin imbalances EMF causes. If we end the Federal Reserve, I will be killing two birds with one stone: restoring a sane fiscal policy in the US, as well as likely uprooting the corrosive corporate attacks on the science demonstrating that unquestioning unlimited cell phone use is NOT in the public interest.
I had never heard of "special magistrate" before. It sounds medieval to me, like this kind of judge reports only to Fuhrer or something.
I used some colorful words to describe Mr. Logan. I was just trying to indicate some emotionality underlying these discussions. There is a lethargic slack-jawed quality to the US populace at present, and we need desperately to stir them to action. It is tragic to see how easily people were duped by Brother Obama and his media-focus-group-whore supporters. I don't put much stock in what Obama SAYS about ANYTHING. It's all bread and circus. You absolutely cannot trust charisma and sex appeal (let alone the color of one's skin) to be good indicators of judgment or the capacity to serve the public interest. In my opinion one must always look to contrarian non-moneyed points of view to find the real narrative and where the hypocrisies lie.
I RARELY consult the New York Times for anything. Being a member of Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting for the past two decades has taught me NEVER to trust the mainstream media. You should go to the non-foundation, non-think-tank experts who are always pointing to -- and knowledgeable enough to see -- the slants in perspective in corporate media.
I don't have time to "persuade" Mr. Logans of anything. But he should go check the primary sources himself before dishonoring someone who has dedicated his life to upholding the Constitution and the civil liberties of citizens both in the US and abroad.
I actually do think illegal immigration is a gummint plot. Politicians can look busy bloviating about building walls and issuing ID cards while driving down wages, ignoring safety regulations and busting labor unions. And as a bonus we have 50 million more poor people to sell beer and lottery tickets to.
No, I agree with you. My point was Mr. Logan's use of wording to build the impression of Alex Jones as a "right-wing, conspiracy-theorist, etc, you-name-it-kook", rather than actually taking the time to hear what he is saying. That's why I gave Mr. Logan credit for providing an extensive list of topics for people to investigate on their own with an open and honest intent. That's why I totally recommend Jones as a source for understanding the mechanizations of the Global Military Industrial Complex. Thanks.
I stand by my characterization of your method--blowing more smoke, more slanted and deceptive interpretation, more lies and half-truths--basic disinformation. I don't know what your motivation is, whether personal or something else. I do know that Alex Jones, to his credit, doesn't waste his time getting drawn into your baiting. I've seen videos of your access television show. My first reaction was that you were a Republican plant to make Democrats look stupid. If you spent even a fraction of your time doing the research that Alex Jones does, you might be able to raise your status from that of a buffoon.
Now, to your credit, you have provided a list, however disingenuously slanted, of very interesting and pertinent topics: Margaret Sanger, Hitler, Eugenics, vaccines, the Rothschild Family, Gloria Steinem as CIA asset, Toll Roads (Nafta Superhighway system, North American Union, etc.), thumbscanning (also iris scanning, Verichipping,--tracking and control)--a myriad of issues relating to the New World Order and global government (Yes, "the New World Order" is now out in the open.) It's not really about Republicans vs. Democrats. I would urge people to go through your list and start googling these issues, and if so inclined, to visit Infowars, PrisonPlanet and especially listen to Alex Jones broadcasts. I don't share a lot of Alex's politics; he does have flaws, but I think he's one person at the top of the list of broadcasters for research, analysis, and excellent guests. So you might like Amy Goodman, or Naomi Klein, or whoever. Great. In my opinion, Alex Jones fills in a lot of gaps which others don't cover. I think the majority of posters here are intelligent enough to come to their own conclusions about Alex Jones. It's one thing to be ignorant, but willful ignorance is the worst. I used to wonder why our political system seemed to keep degrading with each passing year. There are reasons.
By the way, when you list "gummint plot" or "government plot" after each item in your list, you fail to mention that Jones is basically talking about the Military, Industrial, Congressional Complex. Trying to imply that Jones is a "tin-foil-hat-wearing kook" is getting about as old as the "antisemitic" label thrown about by zionists. I've probably wasted too much of my time here, already, but one more thing, Perry. 911 was an inside job.
Amen, Mister Chips!
Most of the "left" -- I am talking about Naomi Klein, KPFK radio, Amy Goodman, Noam Chomsky, and Howard Zinn -- are mum about the deeper forces at work here. These globalists INTENDED this collapse. Every bill Bush II advanced was written beforehand waiting for an appropriate event to give it cover (banker rip off, "patriot" legislation, others). Greed alone cannot explain these events. Is it merely attributable to "greed" that governments worldwide killed over 200 million this past century?
The elites are sociopaths of the highest order. They're arrogant. What the fu*k do the Mason's Georgia Guidestones say? That a planet of 500 million people is what we will soon achieve. This is a preplanned return to neofeudalism. These folks view us as scum that need to be controlled, brainwashed and eventually eliminated. Check out Adam Curtis's work, including The Century of Self 4 hour BBC documentary (available via KPFK fund drive right now), that blows the lid off the Public Relations and Psychoanalysis Industries, being born out of Freud and his nephew Bernay's deep mistrust and disdain of the common man.
Alex Jones's 4 hour daily show is the ONLY show I know of that connects Obama's actions with the white papers of the groups and foundations that put him where he is today. Some of his politics, mainly abortion, I don't agree with; but he doesn't spend much time on that, maybe less than 5%. I concur with the Islamic belief that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." We HAVE to pull together here.
In any event, IT IS TRUE that the Rockefeller family was the brainchild of the World Wildlife Fund, Planned Parenthood, and much of the green and women's liberation movement. It's about extracting more money out of couples forced off their farms and into the workplace, destroying families, taking children from working couples via compulsory state education, and much much more. The Zeitgeist guy was right about one thing at least: the most startling thing is that the masses will be trained to BEG for their own enslavement. Not that being "green" or having the right to choose are bad things, but these matters cut both ways. Jones is always on the lookout for the elite interests that are served whenever broader economic or "humanitarian" matters are being pushed and hyped by our politicians and media.
Right on Cygnus-X1-isaHole. I'm with you 100%. I have been saying to my (few) friends that Obusha (although I didn't use that term until now) is the best thing that could have possibly happened to the right wing nut neocons. The very best. The "liberals" are happy; and the blacks are ecstatic. We will get carrots ... the little midget variety. But my "liberal" friends will still jump and down and get excited and forget about the big stuff. Meet the new boss - same as the old boss.
"One month and already I'm so disappointed . . ." Stop whining and hand-wringing. You write like a child.
Do you, or do you not, think that Green made generally accurate observations in his article? And why exactly do you think so (or not think so)?
Poor Mr. Green. He heard how "Things Go Better" with the superbly "marketed" candidate. He tearfully watched and listened as blacks, whites, and yellows held hands, and the young man vowed to "Teach the World to Sing," (in "perfect harmony" mind you!)
And now, with a mouthful of cavities - and on the verge of diabetes - he just can't believe Coke is not the "Real Thing."
Mr. Green,
The vast majority of Americans, hundreds of millions, who get their "news" from radio and television, are largely unaware of Obama's continuation of constitutional shredding that you wrote about.
They were barely aware of these issues when Bush was president (his CIA assets at the major networks censored them and they're doing Obama the same favor).
The few among the 60 million who voted for Obama and are cognizant of our constitutional crisis will simply assume that because he's African American he'll take care of these complex issues.
A black man will make sure that our civil liberties are being protected they'll reason, correct?
Obama will Trojan Horse in and cement a more powerful "Unitary Executive" than either Bush or McCain could've dreamed of.
By 2012 when Jeb is installed in office nobody will even challenge whether a President can rendition or name any citizen an "enemy combatant".
After all, Obama did it.
Cygnus,
You are right about the majority of Americans, but I think the writer is not addressing the TV-tainment-addicted population in general but the really serious problem of those who voted for Obama but neither then nor since have shown any critical faculties whatsoever. I have at least one such friend, a near-retirement age person, of all things, who is far less a citizen voter than a popstar groupy. It matters not what he does; he can do no wrong. Renditions, continued torture-in-secret, military tribunals, data-mining Americans in their homes and offices, doubling down on the misbegotten Afghan adventure, foot-dragging on Iraq and firmly in the pocket of AIPAC on Israeli state terrorism: when this stuff is mentioned to them they just say something catty and refuse to engage in any discussion. They voted for him and that means he's elected God and any criticism is sacrilage.
If this is how at least 50% (from my recent observations) of Americans on both sides of the political spectrum look at and participate in their elections, the very idea of this being a government of the people by the people is a joke. These people are equipped for nothing more than flocking to scream and throw their underwear at Elvis in las Vegas. Or at Rush Limbaugh, for that matter, as certainly politics isn't the issue for them.
Rainborowe
The Obama supporters I talked to before the election were largely unaware of his FISA vote or that he supported Patriot Act 2.
They bought into the mass marketing thing.
And besides the Republican brand name had turned to sh*t.
My good friend, I found out, was a Hillary supporter.
However, he didn't know that she supported the Iraq war and was paving a legal path to commence bombing in Tehran.
So based on my unscientific polling...WE'RE SCREWED.
DMG gets most of the picture right, but makes one factual error, claiming "...this is the president who heartily criticized his predecessor’s constitutional calamities just months ago on the campaign trail..."
- On the campaign trail, Obama never criticized diddly-squat about Bush's Constitutional transgressions (let alone doing so "heartily"). On the contrary, he basically pretended that Bush didn't even exist. To listen to him (or to the other Dem cowards, except Kucinich) one would have thought that he simply hadn't noticed that the US administration had been composed of thugs, liars & war criminals for the last 8 years. (Of course, Obama voted to support many of the crimes, himself, along with most of his party.)
During the campaign, many posters on this site tried to warn the naive & foolish lesser-evilists of precisely the sorts of things DMG recognizes in this article. The counter-arguments were vicious slanders of Nader ("He once owned shares in Fidelity Magellan!..."), stupid disquisitions about how 3rd parties aren't "viable," or moronic homilies on how we'd all "hold Obama's feet to the fire."
Right this moment, the NYT is front-paging a story about a new trillion-dollar Obama economic proposal. The wording in the article has been changed since it first appeared last night, & it's easy to see why. Last night it openly stated that the new plan ("TALF") would "in effect subsidize the profits of hedge funds and private-equity firms" that participated. Apparently some NYT editor realized this might spark some public anger, so today they modified the wording. Today it says, much more demurely, "Simon Johnson, an economics professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and a former chief economist at the International Monetary Fund, said many people might take a dim view of the TALF program because it provided government subsidies to investors like hedge funds."
In other words, dear little lesser-evilists, your boy (the one whose feet we were going to "hold to the fire") is busy designing with Timothy an "economic rescue plan" that by some great coincidence involves government subsidies for hedge funds.
Sigh!!!!!
I voted for Nader between 94 and 2004 and then got scared this election of Palin and voted "lesser evil" I won't do THAT again, any Green or Nader 2012. No, I don't give a rats ass if the entire Dimocrapic corporate whore party crashes and burns, so don't even try your "supreme court" or "pro choice is more important than anything" Dimocrap supporters. It's the MURDER of hundreds of thousands of brown people for oil and Israel and the reverse Robin Hood transfer of trillions to the banksters while leaving repoed home owner to die in the cold stupid!
The Democratic Party should now be known as the Lesser-Evilist Party.
That could catch on.
When the Lesser-Evilist's associates at Boeing rendition you the in-flight movie must be at least three stars.
Thanks,
Another well stated rebuttal. Well, written and interesting to read.
Awesome.
The crying foul is pretty funny.
Did the people voting for Obama really think they would get different, really?
Who did you think would have your back? This is the really important question.
Time to put away childish things.
I voted for Obama.
All I can say is, I'm glad he's living up to his promises.
"Time to put away childish things."
Good idea. Let's start by scrapping third parties.
"All I can say is, I'm glad he's living up to his promises."
By pandering to the GOP? LOL !! Yeah.
"Let's start by scrapping third parties."
NO NO NO ! Keep them ! The two parties need to be DISCIPLINED and not be allowed to take voters and power for granted as they're now doing. Right now, both parties are playing Dr. Faust and kissing up to Wall $treet's SATANIC @$$ !!
How is Obama "pandering to the GOP"? They opposed his stimulus package.
"The two parties need to be DISCIPLINED"
You mean like Nader DISCIPLINED the Democrats in 2000?
Third parties are a dangerous delusion.
Joseph, proclaiming with both eyes firmly shut and both hands covering ones ears is not a substitute for honest political opinion based upon reality.
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so." Bertrand Russell
The fact that they bit him does not negate the fact that he pandered.
Pandering: see above article, for a start. (Add, e.g., increased tax cuts in the stimulus bill.)
I voted for Obama because in my view, the realistic alternative was worse.
The question for me now is what I intend to do with what I have in front of me. I find it more productive than gnashing my teeth. I guess I'm odd that way.
And . . . what do you intend to do?
Did the people voting for Obama really think they would get different, really?
A modified, limited Yes. I voted for him but I guess I've seen too many Frank Capra movies. It turns out that it is not a wonderful life and Mr. Smith went to Washington and moved in with Claude Rains.
Except Obama was never Mr Smith
Green notes the following:
"I’m already feeling cheap, dirty and used by what I’m seeing."
Not me David, I voted for Nader for third time in the last three Presidential elections. And have not voted for a Democrat since 1972 including the "sell out" Clinton. But to be clear, I never voted for a Republican in my life. The only future any truly progressive person has, is to build Third Parties, and assign the Dems to the garbage bin of history.
You can't build 3rd parties by starting with the White House. History has shown that even the Republicans who were once a third party started from local levels and slowly built their ways up. There are lots of things I don't like about the Democrats and Republicans either but given the drop in 3rd party support especially in the last 8 years, don't you agree that it's time they first went local and then worked their way up the political system? Conservative did it for the past 40 years and look where they are today. Nader has great ideas and all but 16 years is a long time to be failing and dropping from 2.8 million votes in 2000 to under 800,000 votes in 2008 is a strong indicator that Nader needs to be part of a team.
We have had our differences before, but on this issue we are in accord....
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so." Bertrand Russell
elohim - I agree with you about building Third Parties, but I can't help but wonder, if we did get one of them into the white house, and even managed to get quite a few into the house and senate, who, or what they'd find themselves up against, and how far they'd actually be able to go. At this point I honestly feel like everything has been put solidly in place, and there isn't anyone alive who'd be able to make a difference, regardless of how ferverently they might wish to.
Thank you for pointing this out. Every time I or someone tries to point out the fact that 3rd parties have to be relevant to be effective, a cultist shoots their mouth out. These people need to understand how the system works and figure out various ways and long term ideas to change it for the better. Just changing the White House isn't going to mean anything until the support and infrastructure are put into place. I thought progressives and liberals were nurturing and team-spirited rather than Limbaughian dittoheads and wanting only one man to run the show. Until the Left puts their individualist arrogance behind them and takes teamwork seriously like the Republicans and even some Democrats, nothing's going to change for the better.