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Israel Can't Bomb Its Way to Peace
The assault on Gaza has more to do with internal politics than its national security. The U.S. needs to reengage forcefully in a Mideast peace process.
It's a new year in an old and bloody world.
In Israel, politicians jockeying for power have launched the most lethal military assault on Palestinian territory in decades. Israel has justified its bombardment of Gaza on the grounds that Hamas broke a fragile, temporary cease-fire. The Israeli government is right to consider Hamas' rocket attacks on Israeli civilians inexcusable, but the timing of the Israeli military offensive has more to do with politics than anything else.
Ehud Barak, Israel's Labor Party defense minister, and Tzipi Livni, the foreign minister from the centrist Kadima party, are both contenders for prime minister in Israel's Feb. 6 national elections. A show of "toughness" against Hamas could help Labor and/or Kadima beat back the right-wing Likud Party of Benjamin Netanyahu, which has been leading in the polls. Meanwhile, outgoing Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, who faces corruption charges, has just a few weeks to restore his own tattered reputation.
Adding to the time pressure is U.S. President-elect Barack Obama's upcoming inauguration. As long as President Bush was in the White House, Israel could count on a U.S. administration that wasn't merely "supportive" of Israel but blindly, mindlessly so. Obama may be less willing to offer Israel blank checks. Thus this New Year's military offensive, timed for the crucial window before Israeli elections and Obama's swearing-in.
In a strictly military sense, Israel will "win" this battle against Hamas. For all its threats and bravado, Hamas is weak, and its weapons -- terrorism, homemade rockets -- are the weapons of the weak. Since 2001, Hamas has fired thousands of unguided Kassam rockets at Israel, but the rockets have killed only a handful of Israelis.
Israel's military, in contrast, is one of the most modern and effective in the world (thanks in part to an annual $3 billion in U.S. aid). Israel can easily bottle up the tiny Gaza Strip and its 1.5 million people. On Saturday, the first day of the offensive, Israeli bombs killed at least 180 Palestinians. By Wednesday, the Palestinian death toll exceeded 390.
But if there is no reason to doubt Israel's ability to pulverize Gaza, there's also no reason to think this offensive will improve Israeli security. Destruction of Hamas' infrastructure may temporarily slow Hamas rocket attacks, but sooner or later they'll resume.
The Israeli assault may even strengthen Hamas in the longer run and weaken its more moderate secular rival, Fatah. As Israel should know by now (as we all should know), dropping bombs in densely populated areas is a surefire way to radicalize civilians and get them to rally around the home team, however flawed.
Ironically, it's precisely this psychological phenomenon that Olmert, Barak and Livni are counting on among Israelis, but they seem to assume it doesn't exist among Palestinians. (Or, worse, they're too cynical to care, as long as they profit politically.)
Israel has no viable political endgame here: There's just no clear route from bombardment to a sustainable peace. But the damage caused by this new conflagration won't be limited to the Israelis and Palestinians. Israel's military offensive already has sparked outrage and protests throughout the Arab world. The current crisis also may destabilize some of the more moderate Arab governments in the region -- in Egypt, for instance -- where leaders now face popular backlash if they don't repudiate Israel.
And if you think that none of this really matters for us here in the U.S., you're kidding yourself. Arab and Islamic anger over Palestine continues to fuel anti-Western and anti-U.S. terrorism around the globe.
It's time for the United States to wake up from its long slumber and reengage -- forcefully -- with the Middle East peace process. Only the U.S. -- Israel's primary supporter and main financial sponsor -- can push it to make the hard choices necessary for its own long-term security, as well as the region's. In January 2001, the Taba talks between Israel and the Palestinian Authority came achingly close to a final settlement, but talks broke down after Likud's Ariel Sharon was elected prime minister on Feb. 6, 2001. Sharon refused to meet with Yasser Arafat, and newly inaugurated President George W. Bush had no interest in pushing Israel toward peace.
Eight years later, Israel faces another election, and we're about to swear in a new president. When he takes office, Obama needs to push both Israelis and Palestinians to sit back down, with the abandoned Taba agreements as the starting point. Here's to a less bloody 2009.
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97 Comments so far
Show AllWhat a wishy washy article.
Israel has Gaza under occupation. Fatah is corrupt--the reason Hamas won the elections.
They planned a coup against Hamas but the latter group got the upper hand.
The only reason all this is treated with seriousness is because jewish lives are seen as more important than arab lives(or any non jew life).
Some may say its because Israelis are so paranoid from suicide attacks(which only started in the mid 90s, after Baruch Goldstein machine gunned 30 something palestinian worshippers in a mosque). But I dont buy it. Its because they see themselves as superior in value to non jews-and its this belief that fuels all their actions and their sadism.
Mark Steel's article was much better and had the right tone for these events:
For example, Condoleezza Rice, having observed that more than 300 Gazans were dead, said: "We are deeply concerned about the escalating violence. We strongly condemn the attacks on Israel and hold Hamas responsible."
Someone should ask her to comment on teenage knife-crime, to see if she'd say: "I strongly condemn the people who've been stabbed, and until they abandon their practice of wandering around clutching their sides and bleeding, there is no hope for peace."
**
The gap between the might of Israel's F-16 bombers and Apache helicopters, and the Palestinians' catapulty thing is so ridiculous that to try and portray the situation as between two equal sides requires the imagination of a children's story writer.
The reporter on News at Ten said the rockets "may be ineffective, but they ARE symbolic." So they might not have weapons but they have got symbolism, the canny brutes.
It's no wonder the Israeli Air Force had to demolish a few housing estates, otherwise Hamas might have tried to mock Israel through a performance of expressive dance.
he rockets may be unable to to kill on the scale of the Israeli Air Force, said one spokesman, but they are "intended to kill".
Maybe he went on: "And we have evidence that Hamas supporters have dreams, and that in these dreams bad things happen to Israeli citizens, they burst, or turn into cactus, or run through Woolworths naked, so it's not important whether it can happen, what matters is that they WANT it to happen, so we blew up their university."
Or there's the outrage that Hamas has been supported by Iran. Well that's just breaking the rules. Because say what you will about the Israelis, they get no arms supplies or funding or political support from a country that's more powerful than them, they just go their own way and make all their weapons in an arts and crafts workshop in Jerusalem.
But mostly the Israelis justify themselves with a disappointing lack of imagination, such as the line that they had to destroy an ambulance because Hamas cynically put their weapons inside ambulances.
They should be more creative, and say Hamas were planning to aim the flashing blue light at Israeli epileptics in an attempt to make them go into a fit, get dizzy and wander off into Syria where they would be captured.
But they prefer a direct approach, such as the statement from Ofer Schmerling, an Israeli Civil Defence official who said on al-Jazeera, "I shall play music and celebrate what the Israeli Air Force is doing."
Maybe they could turn it into a huge nationalfestival, with decorations and mince pies and shops playing "I Wish We Could Bomb Gaza Every Day".
In a similar tone Dov Weisglas, Ariel Sharon's chief of staff, referred to the siege of Gaza that preceded this bombing, a siege in which the Israelis prevented the population from receiving essential supplies of food, medicine, electricity and water, by saying, "We put them on a diet."
**you dont say "we put them on a diet" unless you have absolute contempt for your victims-which Israel nurtures in the next generation(having kids write messages on bombs dropped on Lebanon).
Israel can't bomb its way to Peace? But isn't that what America claims it is doing?
Israel needs to keep in mind the saying that: Those who live by the sword, die by the sword!
www.dangerouscreation.com
Israel needs regime change.
Who can profit from peace?
Israel has been bombing Gaza time and again thanks to help from the EU, US, and corrupt Arab dictators. And this is the kind of dangers and possible tragedies Palestinians will keep getting as long as both the Far Right and the Far Left continue to aid and abet bad leadership in Washington and Europe. Furthermore, how do you all like it that your tax dollars are going to rogue regimes such as the neighboring Arab nations rife with corrupt dictators conspiring with the zionists running Israel and bringing danger to others? If you people want to keep making shit excuses for ignoring the fact that it's not just Israel and the US but also EU and the corrupt dictators of the neighboring Arab nations that are to be held accountable, more bad things such as this will continue. And don't give me shit about the need to vote 3rd party. Nothing stops corporate and military interests from infiltrating any party it sees coming to power. You people need to cooperate with folks like myself in fighting these vested interests on local, state, and federal levels or we're all going to keep getting stuck in victim status and watch more tragedies in Gaza and elsewhere.
By the way, no reporting of the terrorist attacks that just took place today in Northeast India. I guess they don't matter do they ?
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
It’s instructive to look at the Hamas Covenant, to see how amenable Hamas may be to negotiations with Israel and the West. From the Preamble: “Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.” From Article 13: “[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement ... Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of Islam ... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility.”
Oh yea, this is an organization looking for peace folks. NOT!!
And you're supporting Hamas by supporting the neocon zionists running Israel.
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
"Israel Can't Bomb It's Way to Peace"? Please. What a bunch of psychological drivel. Force certaintly CAN destroy your enemy. And with an enemy who is broken and destroyed they aren't very likely to cause you trouble. Not until the next time they act out and you have to clobber them again.
Now, don't misunderstand me. Force is probably not the best way to settle a beef. Negotiation is. Honest, good faith negotiation. But, when that won't work because your enemy won't negotiate, then it is time to warm up the hardware. Massive, overwhelming, frightening hardware. You know, the kind we here in the USA and in Israel make so well.
Ironically, the argument that force won't work is usually made by people who are about to have it used upon themselves.
So, to recap, there is the easy way, and there is the hard way. Hamas seems to prefer the latter.
In case you're not persuaded, let's revist the point in about 3 weeks. I'm certain we'll have more information on the matter.
Cheers.
Had Redlyne actually done his/her homework, he/she would have realized that Hamas will always be kept alive by the Israeli zionists, the corrupt Western puppet Arab dictators in neighboring Arab nations, US, and the EU. Yes, your tax dollars are keeping Hamas alive and well. Israel could very easily take on Hamas without destroying the civilians harmlessly but it refuses to do so because if Hamas is gone, Israel will have no excuse for any more war and the corrupt practices of the EU, US, and the Arab dictators conspiring with the zionists running Israel and Hamas would be exposed and citizens of all these nations would be ready to hold bad leadership accountable. Instead, the US, EU, zionists running Israel, and the corrupt dictators in neighboring Arab nations have been very successful in conspiring secretly with extremists to shoot down the moderate and the secular. Case in point, Iraq was a secular nation until invaded in 2003 for oil. Since then, it has been controlled by fundamentalists. Even Afghanistan has lost its chance of being a secular nation and is currently being taken over by Pakistan with the help of the US, EU, and once again the corrupt dictators on the neighboring Arab nations. India and Turkey need to watch out because those two secular nations are currently finding their secular status under siege by the fundies who claim to be Muslim or Christian.
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
Terrance Afghanistan is not an Arab country. Afghans are not Arabs. Afghanistan's neighbors are not Arabs, they're Persian, South Asian, Chinese and Central Asian (Tajik, Uzbek, Kirgiz, Iranian, Pakistan, Chinese). Afghans speak Farsi and Pushtu languages and they don't speak Arabic. Arab nations don't pay much attention to Afghanistan these days anyways. They've got their own problems to deal with.
As far as the Arab leaders I'm sure they are looking at the destruction in Lebanon and Iraq and Gaza and figure best to go along and shut-up and be cowards otherwise their territories will resemble Gaza, Sida or Najaf. They're afraid at the end of the day and shaking in their boots. They know the minute they speak up and do something they get sanctioned, boycotted, or bombed. This doesn't excuse them but they don't deserve the same level of blame you keep giving them on every post.
"As far as the Arab leaders I'm sure they are looking at the destruction in Lebanon and Iraq and Gaza and figure best to go along and shut-up and be cowards otherwise their territories will resemble Gaza, Sida or Najaf. They're afraid at the end of the day and shaking in their boots. They know the minute they speak up and do something they get sanctioned, boycotted, or bombed."
If that's true then why did these same dictatorships screw the Palestinians even more than Israel even before this decade? And cowardice is INEXCUSABLE. They know what they're doing and they're taking foreign bribes from the US and the EU. Do a google search and see for yourself. I know it's hard to digest the fact that the corrupt dictators in nations such as Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Jordan are enabling the zionists in Israel. And Europe claims to be against the cruelty by the zionists running Israel but they too are responsible for enabling unfair policies against the Palestinians. Check out their transactions and go talk to Palestinians living in those neighboring Arab nations. Go ahead and defend those cowards and silent enablers. And FYI, the US and EU are also responsible for enabling the Taliban in Afghanistan and if you think those corrupt dictatorship Arab neighbors have nothing to do with it, do a search on House of Saud and you'll see the relationship. There is no excuse for cowardice and silent enabling. If they are screwed by the US and the EU for standing up to tyranny, then let them show their real leadership and fight, win or lose. Those Arab nations are in just as bad shape as the Palestinians when you check out the unreported plight of those citizens.
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
If that's true then why did these same dictatorships screw the Palestinians even more than Israel even before this decade?
My problem with your posts is you are clearly deflecting blame from the main culprit here, Israel. I'm not defending those dictatorships. Having been to the Arab world I've seen them in action. Again, the US supports those dictatorships and if they get out of line they get bombed, boycotted, and sanctioned. Perhaps those dictators don't want their people to become cannon fodder? If they oppose us or Israel that is what happens.
As far as Saudi Arabia and the Taliban yes I know all about that but who keeps the Al-Saud family in power? We do. We also keep giving foreign aid to Pakistan and thier ISI which the CIA helped to create.
Saudia Arabia, Israel, and Pakistan are all our so called allies with friends like these who needs enemies.
I think Terrence is referring to those nations as giving Israel aid. I probably wouldn't be surprised if that were true. I don't think he's taking blame off of Israel. Read his post again. He's not saying Israel is not at fault. What he's trying to say is that without Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Jordan, Israel would not be as powerful. Since you know a lot about Middle Eastern and South Asian policy and since you know that the US supports those dictatorships, let's start out with simple math. The US and Europe give Israel plenty of monetary and military aid. In addition, those Arab nations give even more but wait. Those Arab nations got most of their aid to Israel from the US and EU and are going against the will of their people in arming the zionists. Now let's say the US stops sending aid and weapons to Israel. Well, Europe and those Arab nations will still fill in the void and since Israel knows that it can rely on unlimited ammo 100%, it won't stop. Now let's say the US were to stop giving weapons and money and the European leaders stopped giving weapons and money as well. Then without aid to the dictatorships or for that matter Israel, Israel wouldn't be a powerful bully that it is today. Israel didn't turn into a monster overnight. It had time and if Terrence is correct which I will have to check on, then we'd sure as hell better hold all of them accountable. Israel isn't going to care to listen until we wake up and crack down on all sources of power against that monster and 60 years is a long time to fail.
Jason Jordan
Sandpoint, Idaho
Thanks Sandpoint for your understanding. I'm not surprised by these kind of shitty responses. Yesterday, I was called a zionist for actually pointing out that the zionists running Israel wouldn't be where they were at without the unusual help of the corrupt dictators in the neighboring Arab states in addition to the crummy leaders in the US and the EU. If DCBeltway1 is really angry at those who are deflecting blame of Israel, she sure picked me as the wrong target. I notice that she didn't take on Letto, blutodog, bligh4, etc ... for their blind support of Israel. Maybe she sure learned some cruel tricks from those Arab dictators on keeping people divided and stirred up and angry in the wrong direction. Any nation enabling Israel is no less guilty than Israel whether she likes it or not. And for her to say that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are our friends shows that she does not understand why the citizens in those nations hate the US and their own dictators who just happen to be nothing more than US/EU pirates.
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
Terrance, perhaps the reason you are targeted is because those others are not worth even engaging with, whereas your thinking is just muddled. Almost every country on this planet is being ruled by insane leaders, not just arab countries. What are your proposals to end the tyranny in the countries you keep writing about incessantly? Can you acknowledge that ISRAEL is a problem all by itself? I am on the palestinians side yet I dislike intensely all state religions and esp. the sexism and homophobia of Islamic thought.
nomoreexceptionalism That is my point exactly. Why bother with those posting the Hasbara talking points. I don't. I feel Terrance thinking is muddled on this issue.
So our corrupt Politicians in DC fear AIPAC and tow the line (you can read about that here www.wrmea.com) and the Arab dictators fear another Lavon Affair type incident or sanctions etc. and tow the line. At the root of all this is the fear over the power Israeli supporters wield. At the end of the day America is the superpower here. The Arab world are post-colonial developing nations and AIPAC wields enormous clout over the American superpower's political leadership. Arab dictator are culpable in this but cower in front of this power. From what I have witnessed with my own eyes in Washington Walt and Mersheimer are correct.
Also foreign aid has strings attached to it. Including repayment strings for the Arabs and not for Isreal. Not everyone is all that eager to take that aid given some of the conditions that go along with it. Egypt gets aid because of its peace treaty with Israel. Israel though is the largest receipiant of US foriegn aid and they have no preconditions and never are obligated to pay it back. Congress always forgives their loans. They also get it in one lump sum unlike Egypt. They also get more military aid then all the Arab countries combined. Israel is the 5th largest military power on the planet.
Thanks for the clearly stated factual post. IMO the best way to challenge Israel's unethical actions is exactly this sort of clear calm factual posing.
So let's just ignore all those enablers and keep beating around the bush at Israel and keep failing, eh? Got it.
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
I'm muddled on this issue ? LOL ! You people know nothing about the difference between fear and greed. The corrupt pols in DC don't fear AIPAC. They love them for their money but go right ahead and keep defending your corrupt pols. Arab dictators are not cowards or they would have feared the wrath of their own people.
"Also foreign aid has strings attached to it. Including repayment strings for the Arabs and not for Isreal. Not everyone is all that eager to take that aid given some of the conditions that go along with it. Egypt gets aid because of its peace treaty with Israel."
I fail to see that as nothing more than another unfounded excuse for defending corrupt dictators. Egypt doesn't have a peace treaty with Israel unless you can show me some proof. And if it does, it's nothing more than a foreign bribery note just like those fake "peace" talks between Pakistan and India, not that I support the idea of those two nations bombing each other out.
"Israel though is the largest receipiant of US foriegn aid and they have no preconditions and never are obligated to pay it back. Congress always forgives their loans."
I think we can agree on that one.
"At the root of all this is the fear over the power Israeli supporters wield. At the end of the day America is the superpower here. The Arab world are post-colonial developing nations and AIPAC wields enormous clout over the American superpower's political leadership."
America's not a superpower if it's borrowing money from China to buy oil from Saudi Arabia. And if AIPAC controls America, you just proved that America's not a superpower. And you forgot to mention Europe's silent role as well. You can keep acting like another cowardly pansy about AIPAC or you can join me in spreading the word about the need to take on AIPAC and the corrupt Arab dictators enabling the zionists running Israel. If you want to tell me that the citizens in Jordan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia are doing hunky dory as a result of being shackled to corrupt US/EU backed puppet dictators, please prove it because I don't buy these fear theories. Thank you.
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
AIPAC has resulted in politicans losing their jobs. The founder of the Council for the National Interest wrote a book about AIPAC's power called "They Dare to Speak Out". He was a Congressman from Illinois and he challenged them. His name was Paul Findley. Cynthia McKinney took on the lobby and lost her seat. Did you ever see the Israeli Lobby movie the two dutch filmmakers recently made? Yes, some politicans do love AIPAC but there is a difference between fear and love and far more politicians fear then love AIPAC. They fear the envitable smear of anti-semetism which is utilized by AIPAC supporters like a baseball bat. Howard Dean called for more even-handness and got screamed at by the lobby and its supporters and pretty much lost the Presidential election. Clinton kissed Suha Arafat and the AIPAC crowd screamed and howled about this incident until she agreed to do their bidding. Obama knew he needed to make a speech in front of the lobby...search for it on youtube to get funding and win the election.
J Street has started to take on AIPAC and this is good. CNI as I mentioned has also and even some Arab-Americans are starting to lobby Congress in opposition to AIPAC. Ordinary Americans are also. However, until polticians feel their seats are secure they won't do so. Somehow we all need to empower them to feel secure to speak out. Clean, totally publicly funded elections is one answer.
J Street? That sounds interesting. I'll do a google search on it and check it out. Whatever I can pull up on J Street I'll spread the info around in my county. Thanks.
P.S.: Ok, I admit. Even Obama is vulnerable on AIPAC but I still hold hope he'll get past their nasty ways. Sorry I got a little too mad at all this. I guess I don't know Washington well enough.
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
No need to be mad...I'm not trying to make you mad so I am sorry if I have done so. We are on the same side and pro-justice. We both agree there is plenty of blame to go around about who is at fault but what is the use of placing blame at the end of the day? Why do states and politicans act so irrationally when it comes to this conflict? That is the larger question. To solve that start with AIPAC's dealings in Washington as this impacts Washington's dealings with the whole of the Middle East. There you'll find the root of the problem. How to counter AIPAC's and the larger lobby's influence now that is something we all need to figure out and fast if we are to all survive on this planet together.
"Can you acknowledge that ISRAEL is a problem all by itself?"
Not if it's being aided by not only the US but also EU and the corrupt dictators in the neighboring Arab nations. Israel's power doesn't come from some magic wand sir. It takes loads of cooperation and that's what you and DCB don't understand.
"What are your proposals to end the tyranny in the countries you keep writing about incessantly?"
Go back and read my posts. I even mentioned the need to legalize INDUSTRIAL HEMP for fuel so we can get our rights to grow our own fuel and eliminate the need for foreign oil and petroleum altogether. The House of Saud hates hempseed oil and I know why. Your tired old proposals, if any, of just beating around the bush at Israel haven't worked for years.
Terrance Mitchell
Redfield, South Dakota
Hi Terrance: I know this is off-topic, but I agree hemp should be legalized if we are truly serious about energy independence.
I agree. I can only hope Hamas gets blown out of the ground...what they're doing to Israel is ridiculous. I mean...JDACS, F-16s, anti-tank helicopters? Israel doesn't even have any tanks that Hamas can shoot at! God! Is Hamas insane? They're animals. Just animals! And the targets they're shooting down...are we really expected to believe that those 300+ causalities are all just Israeli fighters? Please! "Surgical" my foot. They're about as surgical as a Delta Airliner flying on autopilot ground level with the Grand Canyon.
I hope Israel does the best it can with what it's got. Maybe then this war will be over.
- Insurgent
3 new Zionists supporting each other as a group in the last 5 minutes, of course Zionists don't have a network to inform people to descend on dissenters with scripted talking points, that's "paranoid" thinking, right? SIGH!
http://giyus.org/
http://www.israelactivism.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaphone_desktop_tool
Force cannot destroy an enemy, unless it is genocidal in extent, when that enemy is an entire people.
It's only a mater of time before Israel proposes a "final solution to the palestinian problem", and starts constructing gas chambers. But the arabs will not meekly march off to be slaughtered the way the jews did. That's one of the reasons the jews hate them.
http://www.users.bigpond.com/pmurray
http://www.paulmurray.id.au/ageofworms
To quote: " YOU CAN BOMB THE WORLD TO PIECES, BUT YOU CANNOT BOMB THE WORLD TO PEACE"!
Have any of you seen "The Battle of Algiers"?? While I don't agree with all the tactics of Hamas, I completely disagree with ALL the tactics of "Israel" (sic). It's time for the world to finally rise up against them and impose a two-state solution.
It would be nice if the U.N. would do it's job and occupy the Israelis aggressor wouldn't it? Too bad we have a security council where the U.S. can veto such a rational, ethical, sane move to protect it's regional enforcer mini me bully.
Israel has never wanted peace. They want Land. From the moment the European Jews set foot in Palestine the aim has been to take all land from the Jordan Valley to the sea. From Negev desert to ther Litani River.
They have known all along that the method used by Hitler would never be tolerated by the World community. So they have used time. Like a slow growing malignant tumor has Israel expanded--or as Bush,that moron explained: Changed facts on the Ground. And every Time a peace settlement was imminent, IDF killed a few more children, Bulldozed a few more houses,increased the suffering of the people of Palestine.
Of course the Palestinians have the right to fight against occupation and their own extermination. The only crime they are guilty of is to live, and refuse to go away or die.
Pure Projection dude. Read the PLO and the Hamas charters. These are the genocidal maniacs not the Israelis. I guess u want us to give back North America while were at it? Grow up, land is held till it's not. Nobody owns anything for very long on this planet. The Chinese are doing the best so far, in that regard.
I see round two of the megaphone recruits have arrived. Please use some arguments other than those specified in the Hasbara book, they are getting tiresome, m'K?
p.s. are you the same Bluto I argued with on digg? Bluto is a great name for Zionist BTW as that was the character on Popeye who was a bully who was always attempting to rape "Olive Oil."
The reason we have international law is to try to overcome a primitive regressive "might makes right attitude," sadly Israel and her apologists including the government of the U.S. are regressive in that regard.
It's looks to me that the Hamas violates international law. (Indiscriminate shelling of civilian targets violate the 4th Geneva Convention)
Israel is working within international law. (UN charter, article 51)
You were saying???
I notice you didn't respond to the first part so i will ask bluntly are you part of a student pro Israel group using Giyus and the Hasbara book? If you don't answer or evade I will take that as a yes.
You will note that the West bank has largely complied with Israeli demands. There no rocket fire coming from there. No suicide bombers .
Israel is still stealing their land. They are still expanding the Illegal settlements now having Jerusalem ringed with them., They are still bulldozing homes. They are still forcing Palestinians on the West bank to go through checkpoints where it takes 3 hours to do a 20 minute journey. They still have JEW only roads. They still control the entry points into and out of the West bank and its air space.
Israel does not want peace. They want the land and If Hamas gave up weapons all Israel would do is steal more.
Now I would contrast that with Lebanon where isreali troops patrolled for years. Israel made the same sorts of demands on Hizbollah.
Hizbollah refused to comply.
Not just land. Water. A hydrological map of israel and the west bank explains a *lot* about the placement of the settlements.
http://www.users.bigpond.com/pmurray
http://www.paulmurray.id.au/ageofworms
Age of worms WTF kind of spam is that?
Livni: No humanitarian crisis in Gaza
Thu, 01 Jan 2009 18:29:24 GMT (PressTV)
Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni rebuffs a French-proposed ceasefire in the Gaza Strip saying 'there is no humanitarian crisis in the Strip'.
What? Oh, I see. The Israelis have painted 'HAPPY FACES' on their side of the Apartheid Walls. I can recall that the Nazis painted just such 'HAPPY FACES' on the windows of the buses transporting Europe's Jews.
I suppose a truckload of ersatz bars of soap sent across the Karni crossing counts as 'humanitarian' aid from the world's Jews. A 'gift' from the American taxpayer like the F-16 fighter bombers and Apache attack helicopters. How generous of our congressmen!
A hundred trucks of humanitatian supplies enters Gaza daily.
Have you counted them recently?
Do they come from the Jewish only apartheid highways? Because obviously they cannot get in that way.
The only supplies getting into Gaza are from the Egyptian tunnels. Yes, some weapons come in through there but the majority of what comes through is food, animals, and fuel.
Isreal's prison inmates were not playing by the warden's rules so they were starved a little. When that didn't work stronger measures were used.
You can bet that in the Al-Qaeda training camps a popular item for discussion is America's yearly 3 billion in aid to Isreal (poor African countries would appreciate a small fraction of this handsome sum), the american made fighter jets, tanks, and bombs killing Palestinians, and its unqualified support for Isreal's war crimes.
The next time Al-Qaeda or some other group strikes out at the U.S. will the Americans ask again "why do they hate us so"?
Of course they will, Fool!
www.dangerouscreation.com
Are you kidding me?
Americans, the people who are fed the most amazing propaganda and lap it up like it was mother's milk?
Americans, the single most un-curious people in the entire world?
The ONLY reason McCain didn't win was the economic crash-out. Sarah Palin didn't help, but she didn't hurt either. If the USA hadn't directly felt the economic pinch we'd be looking at four years of freshly-shot moose heads in the White House.
Yes, I am afraid many many Americans will continue to ask incredulously "Why do they hate us?"
And many more Republican leaders, anxious to recapture the old glories of the Bush years, will provide the stock answers that are all so easy to say on Faux News, but all so very wrong.
Call me anything you want Israelis and all Israeli firsters, I hate what the Jews do and it is justified because of their own actions. They are the feces of their god...is it Yahweh? Have you ever seen a more parasitic, self- pitying people in your life? I guess their god made a vegetable out of that murderer Ariel Sharon. We need more vegetables like him!!
Jonah, "I hate what the Jews do"
"They are the feces of their god...is it Yahweh? Have you ever seen a more parasitic, self- pitying people in your life?"
"their god made a vegetable out of that murderer Ariel Sharon. We need more vegetables like him!!"
Good old anti-semitism is showing its ugly head once more.
Gotta agree with letto on this one, sigh!
Thank you hootowl.
Even though we don't agree on everything, you are a good person.
Well at least we can recognize each others humanity that is a start eh?