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A Hundred Eyes for an Eye
Israelis and Arabs "feel that only force can assure justice," I. F. Stone noted soon after the Six Day War in 1967. And he wrote: "A certain moral imbecility marks all ethnocentric movements. The Others are always either less than human, and thus their interests may be ignored, or more than human and therefore so dangerous that it is right to destroy them."
The closing days of 2008 have heightened the Israeli government's stature as a mighty practitioner of the moral imbecility that Stone described.
Israel's airstrikes "have killed at least 270 people so far, injured more than 1,000, many of them seriously, and many remain buried under the rubble so the death toll will likely rise," Phyllis Bennis of the Institute for Policy Studies pointed out on Sunday, two days into Israel's attack. "This catastrophic impact was known and inevitable, and far outweighs any claim of self-defense or protection of Israeli civilians." She mentioned that "the one Israeli killed by a Palestinian rocket attack on Saturday after the Israeli assault began was the first such casualty in more than a year."
Even if you set aside the magnitude of Israel's violations of the Geneva conventions and the long terrible history of its methodical collective punishment of 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza, consider the vastly disproportionate carnage in the conflict.
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind," Gandhi said.
What about a hundred eyes for an eye?
It makes some of the world ill with rage. And it turns much of the United States numb with silence. Routinely, the politicians and pundits of Washington can't summon minimal decency in themselves or each other on the subject of Israel and Palestinians.
While officialdom inside the Beltway seems frozen in fear of risking "anti-Semitism" charges by actually standing up for the human rights of Palestinian people, some progress at the grassroots has been noticeable. It includes the growth of groups such as Jewish Voice for Peace, Tikkun, and The Shalom Center, where activists have worked to refute the false claims that American Jews are united behind Israeli policies.
At the epicenters of the conflict -- where the belief that "only force can assure justice" seems to be even stronger than when I. F. Stone wrote about it 41 years ago -- the conclusion has been drawn and redrawn so many times that deadly repetition has become paralytic. While some Palestinian "militants" have terrorized and murdered, the Israeli government has terrorized and murdered on a much bigger scale, using a vast arsenal largely financed by U.S. taxpayers.
From afar, in the United States, it's too easy to shake our heads at the lethal loss of moral vision. Don't they know that "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"? But the cycle of violence is extremely asymmetrical -- while the U.S. government provides Israel with billions of dollars and invaluable "diplomatic" support.
What's going on in Gaza right now is not just an eye for an eye. It's a hundred eyes for an eye. And the current slaughter is not only an ongoing Israeli war crime. It has an accomplice named Uncle Sam.
- Posted in
99 Comments so far
Show AllThe title says it all.
Yup.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
Norman Solomon: do you really think the Beltway crowd is silent for fear of being called "antisemites"? I'm not. It fits with their keeping quiet with the war on Iraq, torture, Fallujah, ...you know the whole darned list. The "don't make waves" crowd. Plus the ones making money on war materials. It fits under Rev.Dr. Martin Luther King's comments about those who do nothing...And Dante left the deepest, coldest ring in his Inferno for those who do nothing. Thanks for bringing in I F Stone. Long long ago, I read "I F Stone's Weekly". He was fearless. As a Jew, I am amazed at how many are expecting the Jews who are against Israeli policy to make Israel stop (in comments on other articles). Most Americans do not see how all Americans should be making noise, contacting our government, etc.
Yes, it would be nice if the Israeli government listened to us, wouldn't it? But then they would say we're not real Jews..or at least to me, since I'm in the Reform branch.
Speak against anything Israel does, and some other Jews will call you "a self-hating Jew."
What you are, of course, is an Israeli-policy hating Jew.
waiguoren:which reminds me of the old Jewish joke: put 3 Jews together for a discussion and you'll get at least 5 opinions.
If they are progressive Jews, make that 9 opinions...
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
Yeah, I've heard that line too...and agree with your response.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
zmann:I had a goofy exchange yesterday with someone (azjoe,I think) who was trying to convince me that Jews have more power than Christians to change Israeli policy,since millions of Christians couldn't stop Israel in re Palestinians. That all (he had the wrong number) Jews in the world should pray. As an atheist Jew, I don't pray. The Israeli government doesn't give a fig about what we think. But, as an American, I'd like to think we all, Americans, can let our government know we don't want the US supporting the Israeli policies in Gaza, etc. We know we haven't gotten too far with the US government in re Iraq, to not go in, and to get out, but it's possible.....A lot of crap comes out re people's views of Jews totally separate from Israeli policy on these comments "threads",but only by a few.
PS You got hooked by the bait into the question about atheists Jew, from the guy who wouldn't take my answer. Rabbi Harold Kushner, "To Life" supports the view I had before I found it in his book for a born again friend who asked What is a Jew? She was African-American in midwest and neither of us knew any of the other; we were friends as artists.I grew up in an Orthodox Jewish family from Warsaw, pre-WWI arrival.
Nobody in this forum knows what an "atheist Jew" is.
You have no answer other than to buy and read an entire book (which I doubt will answer my question) written by the guy who read the Bible at Ronald Reagan's funeral.
I find it especially ironic that after reading a book you claims answers my question, you find yourself unable to discuss the subject you apparently read about.
Kushner's premise is that the Jews are a People because were a People before they had a religion. Well, perhaps at a certain point in time they fit the definition of a People as "a body of persons sharing a common religion, culture, language, or inherited condition of life." But modern non-religious Jews do not have a common "culture, language, or inherited condition of life". Needless to say they can't have a common religion. How are they "a People"?
Plus, Kushner is a Rabbi, he's religious. His view of "Jewish culture" seems more like a view of religious "Jewish culture". Here's the summary from Amazon,
From Publishers Weekly
Kushner, a rabbi and author of the bestseller When Bad Things Happen to Good People , here presents a wise and lucid guide to what it means to be Jewish. Distilling his extensive study and reflection, he defines the goal of Judaism as "bringing God into the world" by sanctifying ordinary events and by helping people to become fully human through their relatedness to others. As he sees it, God's covenant with the Jews means that God and humans have obligations to one another. Kushner illuminates this reciprocal relationship, emphasizing that people exercise free choice in what direction they take toward goodness and articulating Judaism's expectation that social justice will ultimately prevail. His exuberant approach and organic bonds to a living faith pervade this book, which includes chapters on rituals, holidays, prayer, anti-Semitism, Jews' attachment to Israel and Jewish-Christian relations.
Copyright 1993 Reed Business Information, Inc. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.
From Library Journal
Kushner ( When Bad Things Happen to Good People , Avon, 1983) has here written a lucid analysis of Jewish life, thought, and customs. Enlightening to those who want to learn more about Judaism, this work serves as an excellent introduction to the roots of Christianity and Jewish belief. Kushner discusses the essence of Judaism in a simple and clear language, touching upon the meaning of Jewish customs and ceremonies and the purpose of prayer. He talks about such topics as the love of Israel by Jews, how Jews and Christians need to understand one another, and anti-Semitism in terms of why people hate. The essence of the book is its tone of optimism, its sense of living and making the ordinary sacred; this tone is enhanced by an ease of writing and the use of examples and memories from the author's life. Recommended to all libraries.
- Maurice Tuchman, Hebrew Coll. Lib., Brookline, Mass.
Copyright 1993 Reed Business Information, Inc. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.
Does Kushner answer if the Jews are still "a People"? Would you mind giving us a summary of why?
This book seems focused on the history of religious Judaism.
Regardless of the work of Kushner, YOU provide no answer.
You wouldn't respond to my simple questions.
Frankly, I can only assume that you do not know what "atheist Jew" is.
Do you?
"Judaism shares some of the characteristics of a nation, an ethnicity, a religion, and a culture, making the definition of who is a Jew vary slightly depending on whether a religious or national approach to identity is used. Generally, in modern secular usage, Jews include three groups: people who were born to a Jewish family regardless of whether or not they follow the religion, those who have some Jewish ancestral background or lineage (sometimes including those who do not have strictly matrilineal descent), and people without any Jewish ancestral background or lineage who have formally converted to Judaism and therefore are followers of the religion. At times conversion has accounted for a substantial part of Jewish population growth. In the first century of the Christian era, for example, the population more than doubled, from 4 to 8–10 million within the confines of the Roman Empire, in good part as a result of a wave of conversion." - wiki
BY this definition if my wife and I covert to Judaism, my offspring is permanently Jewish even if they worship Islam. That's absurd. Ever hear of any Islamic Jews?
"BY this definition if my wife and I covert to Judaism, my offspring is permanently Jewish even if they worship Islam"
Actually, Joe, that's about right. But only your wife would need to convert, since only the mother has to be Jewish for the offspring to be Jewish. This may seem absurd to you, but to those who have lived within this tradition (and it is a very, very long tradition) that's just the way it is.
If your mom was Irish, you would probably consider yourself to be Irish, at least in part. You would consider this to be a part of your heredity, and very likely you would have other Irish influences in your life, like your diet and vocabulary, and perhaps even a desire to drink green beer.
You could then further describe yourself as a Catholic, a person who adheres to the tenets of the Catholic religion.
So you are an Irish Catholic, the first word describing your hereditary culture, tradition and ethnicity, the second word describing your religious doctrine.
So this is the way NYCartist sees herself: someone who was born into the Jewish culture, raised in a household governed by Jewish traditions and morality, who through her own life and experiences has come to the understanding that the idea of a Supreme Being ruling over us with (take your pick) benevolence/vengefullness, taking sides in our conflicts, willing us to bend to an impossible, illogical belief system, asking us to give up what we know is right to prove allegiance, and allowing us to live immorally in this life and still attain a place in "Heaven" in the "afterlife" through an acceptance of religious dogma IS ABSURD.
elainem:I was born into a family 7/8th Orthodox Jews from East Europe. When I was 15, I realized that I do not believe in God. I do not think about religion. I say I am a Jew because I am and because it is a small minority, much hated by some. I was a young child during WWII. It left an impression. I have friends who are religious:Jews, Catholics, Protestant and Muslim. They are used to my point of view. I just don't bother with religion at all. I mention it, such as I have on CD, because it is part of my identity. I don't really care what fools think and after spending considerable time explaining, I realized the person has an agenda and just likes to keep needling. I post this comment because you were writing about me. Happy New Year to you. (I am smiling. Hard as it is as a Jew, while all this misery is caused by Israel. I also feel the pain of being an American, a citizen of the USA whose policies are: war crimes, ....etc. including enabling Israel.)(I have no connection to Israel, but being a Jew of a certain age, triggers feelings.)
NYCartist, thanks for letting me speak for you a little. I'm sure you have guessed that I am speaking for myself a little, too.
I was raised by a liberal Christian pastor (yes there are some), and I am grateful for the excellent upbringing I had and the education I received. But I also had my moment of realization, more like: hey, this is a serious piece of BS here, and if they're BSing me on this point, how many other points are wrong? It was pretty much at the time in adolescence where I really understood what a "virgin" was.
I can't really say I'm an atheist, though, because I still believe in God, not as a "Supreme being" but as "Every being and more". In every definition there is possible error, so the less said the better. I still do love to discuss the concept though!
I thank you for your good wishes and I return the same to you. May the New Year mark the end of the Era of Willful Ignorance and the beginning of the Courage to Seek the Truth.
I know that not all Jews are responsible for atrocities perpetrated by Israel, just as I know that all Americans are not responsible for atrocities committed in our name. But as we sit here knowing that American bombs and guns and soldiers are killing the innocent all over the world, I agree that it's hard not to feel personally responsible. The worst pain comes from feeling like we can't change anything no matter what we do.
elainem;Happy New Year. I just found your reply to my reply... I am not surprised your dad was a liberal pastor. I met some in Denver who were working for the American Friends Service Committee. Growing up in Brooklyn, Jewish, I did not meet many people who were not Jews from East Europe or Italian Catholics (mostly from South Italy). I met Protestants, mainly African-American in an upstate (NY)teachers college. One of my grandmothers was half WASP. I really like your last sentence. I was giving support on that to someone on another article ("thread"?) comments, who thanked me and I replied that it motivated me, in turn. This evening, I put a comment under the headlines column obit of Helen Suzman, on activists who come from Jewish families. I am comfortable with people defining how they look at the world, whether they like religion or not, whether they believe in God or not. So much seems to come down to how people view authority. And where and with whom people grew up. Some of us are born asking questions....Being a Jew born at the time I was born, makes me identify with all oppressed people.
"If your mom was Irish, you would probably consider yourself to be Irish, at least in part. "
Ok, elainem, here's where you are confused.
By your definition what is an "atheist Jew" from Ireland? An Irish Catholic atheist Jew? Give me a break.
By your definition why wouldn't an "atheist Jew" identify themselves based on nationality (i.e. Irish) and the religion they practice. (i.e. Judaism) or no religion if they are atheist? You are not a Catholic unless you practice the religion. Because of this, your example does not work. Jews have placed themselves in a special category in that sense.
Do you understand what the difference between a nationality and a People/religion? In terms of Nationality I would ONLY consider the "part" as everyone does when researching their ancestry. So, no, I would not say "I'm Irish".
Certainly if I was half Israeli and half Irish, I would not be "an Irish person", right?
"You could then further describe yourself as a Catholic, a person who adheres to the tenets of the Catholic religion.
So you are an Irish Catholic, the first word describing your hereditary culture, tradition and ethnicity, the second word describing your religious doctrine."
Only if I'm Catholic! And only if I practice the religion! What on earth is "hereditary culture"? You don't inherit a culture you participate in one. In the world today you are free to participate is almost any culture. But if I become interested in Kenyan dance it does not make me Kenyan. Do all you claims hold weight if I'm an Irish immigrant from Tunisia, or does it only apply to the "real Irish".
"So this is the way NYCartist sees herself:"
She has never compared being an "atheist Jew" as being to an atheist with Irish Catholic relatives. Nobody would seriously claim that you are born into Irish Catholicism and even if you practice a different religion you are Catholic for life. This is unique to Judaism.
"raised in a household governed by Jewish traditions and morality"
How many times do I have to ask what is meant by this? Let's hear about those "atheist" Jewish traditions? And how "Jewish morality" (of atheist Jews) is different from normal human "morality".
Not only that, I think many Americans are aware that we have absolutely no moral standing to criticize everyday Israelis for not stopping what their government is doing, given our abysmal history of not stopping anything Bush did for the last 8, including carnage on a much vaster scale, right in the open, beamed into our televisions with breathless "wow, cool visuals" commentary.
"As a Jew, I am amazed at how many are expecting the Jews who are against Israeli policy to make Israel stop (in comments on other articles)."
I believe that it is incumbent on those most close to the problem to do what they can to help solve the problem. As such, and being a Jew, I feel it is my responsibility to do whatever I can to put pressure on Israel to stop their apartheid (I have written to several Israeli embassies and consulates). Of course, this also goes for my own government.
Similarly, I have asked those of Arab descent to do what they can to influence those most close to them.
I don't know, just seems to make sense to me.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
Ted Markow:some guy commented to me that as a Jew, I should pray and that I should get all Jews in the world to pray and that Israel would listen to Jews of the world more than it has listened to the 50 million Christians. I was referring to that comment, but not clearly. It was stating that Jews are one unified bunch in the world, around the world. And,he said, specifically to me in a comment, that I should convince the 5million other Jews because I am a Jew... It reflected more on how some people view Jews, which is why I mentioned it (but not clearly enough).
trollwiththepunches:I see your point, but being called "self-hating Jew", which is nonsense, has not stopped Jews who are critical of Israel. I think it is a small factor in some Jews and nonJews who are silent,in Congress, but not a very big factor. I smile at the Jew haters (notice that I use that not antisemite, deliberately)who brag about it, while posting anonymously. People can saying anything online and make up whole batches of junk. I tend to remember some screen names, particularly the jerks (who I avoid) and those I like.
The west is blind. Especially to the state sponsored terrorism of the racist apartheid state of Israel!
Aldous Huxley presciently wrote the novel "Eyeless in Gaza" in 1936; the title is from a line in Samson Agonistes by John Milton.
It was in Gaza that Samson pulled those pillars down.
The West doesnt want a jewish state inside Europe where it belongs, so they dump it on the arabs.
I still think that the arabs could do more for their own cause--but there is no unity, and probably wont be as long as oil can be pumped from the ground.
It has reached absurd proportions, but in the end Israel will suffer. They just dont see that they are sewing the seeds of their own annihilation one day.
Remember how Bush got shoes thrown at him during his victory lap.
Karma.
Webber:I have never heard anybody discuss why Jews who survived the Nazis didn't go back to their (confiscated, if they had one)homes and lives in the countries where they'd lived.
.I fail to find the logic in your statement that a Jewish state belongs in Europe.Jews have been pushed from pillar to post for thousands of years and, if they have a traditional homeland it is precisely where Lord Balfour decided it should be.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Wasn't this the same author who begged us to vote for the same dude who promised to bomb Afghanistan and Pakistan ? The article has no meaning when one finds out that this same author supports the same pro-AIPAC pols.
JWVerez:Hello. Happy New Year. We have had comment back and forth about disability. Some authors can be good or right on one point and be wrong on others. Give Norman Solomon some thought on this. I have avoided commenting on the whole thing about eyes out, since as a disabled person, it bothers me, but he is fighting for getting the US to stop backing Israel on its aggression on Palestinians. (Disclosure: I supported Kucinich until he quit the race for Pres. in 2008. I voted for Obama along with 78% of Jews.)
Sigh. You're correct. I'll confess. I voted Obama only because Nader wasn't on the ballot but that's TX. There was Barr but I knew the slimebag was just another opportunist and no real libertarian. Sorry to be bitter and too distrustful. :(
JWVerez:Oy. I feel like I did when I was a teacher. Sorry. I was talking about me voting for Obama. I must say, you are one heck of a man. Most guys avoid saying they were wrong at ALL costs. Happy New Year to you, your wife and the family. I know you are a computer engineer, whatever the word is (I'm totally non tech.),but you have the makings of a really good teacher....Sometimes a teacher is wrong, and it's hard to say, "I was wrong" to students. I remember.........(and if you are already teaching, I'm just "reenforcing it".)
Ah, Texas...I still have a twinge in my heart for LBJ, even though I was in the street (because the church was too full) listening to it on speakers, as LBJ said, "I am not going to run...." and cheered. If you are inclined to read one more book on LBJ, Robert Caro wrote some beauties. I read his "LBJ:Master of the Senate". Great book. Caro and his wife moved to LBJ's hometown and lived there for a year or more, to get the feel of it. He takes years and years and years to research and do a book. I really like that about him. He's a New Yorker.
"I still have a twinge in my heart for LBJ"
LBJ was a mass-murderer... and you look back fondly on him.
Good thing Obama will be different then McCain on this one this one right?
Because that was the kind of bullshit you tried to sell us on when you where
shilling for Osame. Norm Soloman is such a tool.
Mr. Solomon is wrong. It's not "an eye for a hundred eyes," because Israel has no claim to be seeking retaliation; Israel is the initial agressor. So, it's just "a hundred eyes (many hundreds, actually) for no good reason, and with impunity." Who, who on this great earth can believe that a country built on ethnically-cleansed land can retain any legitimacy in the long run?
Palestinian non-violent protest has been met with bullets and bombs, and so who are we to preach non-violence to them or to anyone?
Let me tell you what this is really about: I'll tell you why Jews can't stand the survival of the Palestinian nation. Every Palestinian act of resistance - whether an Op-Ed article, a stone, or a fertilizer-bomb, is a reminder of the utter lack of resistance the European Jews could muster in the face of their own Shoah. Now that it's Israel's turn to be the Nazis, and as leaders of Israel literlly threaten the indigenous Palestinians with a new "Shoah", we see what really scares the apartheid state - every expression of Palestinian determination to survive is a reminder of their own innate cowardice.
"a reminder of the utter lack of resistance the European Jews could muster in the face of their own Shoah"
I don't know about that...weapons were far from as readily available back then as they are today.
zmann:his argument goes back decades and is almost "code". It's not based in "real" since Jews did fight in Warsaw. Others did,too.
It's not "almost code", NYCartist - it is blatant anti-semitism.
There are a few who lurk on CD who just wait for an opportunity like this to slither out with their "Jews bad" spew. It makes it all the more difficult to maintain some equilibrium, but it is as it is.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
Ted Markow: I prefer to call it "Jew hating" and, at times, Jew baiting. I usually ignore it. I then suggest people read James Carroll's nonfiction history, "Constantine's Sword", and there's also a documentary, not a direct transition from the book. Google both. I read most of Carroll's book (until he got into theology. As an atheist Jew, I can't do theology). The book is a history of the Church's hatred of Jews for centuries, and he suggests it finally culminates in the Holocaust in Germany. This makes some people uneasy. Who wants to think their "group" fosters hatred. I read the book to find out why Jews are so hated by Christians:short answer: we haven't, don't accept Jesus Christ. James Carroll went to seminary, but left. He is the same James Carroll whose articles from the Boston Globe often appear on Common Dreams. (I have related comments elsewhere on this and other articles. Too hard for me to repeat it all.) Thanks for your comment. I have a tendency to understatement....
There are Jews who can't or don't want to believe the idea that Israel is doing war crimes, crimes against humanity/civilians,children. I say that based on their defending Israel no matter what. There are people who are supporting Israel government policies for whatever variety of reasons, or just saying it. There are Americans who support the US government's policies in the middle east, no matter what:war crimes, human rights crimes, crimes against humanity.... Some people believe authority. No matter what.
To be honest, I used to not follow what Israel was doing too closely, but that was mostly because I was so focused on all the crap our country is doing...but now that I graduated college, I have more time on my hands :-)
zmann:Hello. Happy New Year. I confess, I thought you were older. (I am older and too often assume others are, based on an incorrect "reading" of their views.) As to the "fools", I ignore them as much as possible. You're doing fine. Do check out Jews Against the Occupation of Palestine www.jatonyc.org. They had a good amount of young people, I think. I forgot to say, in one of my comments, that getting in touch with one group, will lead you to other groups, websites, reading. For me, it's always hard to "find a place" where I fit.
I also recommend my favorite radio station, WBAI www.wbai.org NYC's station (with,. live streaming and archived shows). WBAI is in the Pacifica Network www.pacifica.org. WBAI was the original home of DemocracyNow and Amy Goodman ran the news department for awhile. If you like history, the radio archives of Pacifica are incredible, some with transcripts www.pacificaradioarchives.org The website if fun to browse. (I'm only online a year and my tech skills are low.)
Thanks for the help :-) And Happy New Year, may a year of being tainted by Bush for only 3 weeks be a much better one.
Can u imagine the gall of this person to call the victims of a real genocide ( The Shoah) cowards? The fucking gall of these bastards is astounding! Boy, do these people have it backwards. It doesn't seem to dawn on them that the so called Hamas leadership is turning it's own children into human bombs while these adults go about lives and families all the while enriching themselves from the utter poverty of those around them.
What utter BS you spew! Apartheid -stat ? What nonsense that is. Muslims vote in Israel they don't in much of the Arab Muslim world. Ethnically cleansed? Millions of Arab-Israelis that's right Muslim Arab Israelis still live in ISRAEL asshole. Your just another Jew hater hiding behind a liberal leftist banner. If the Mexicans started sending missiles into North American occupied Arizona or Texas would u and your ilk be crying foul then when we told them to stop and then bombed the living shit out of Mexico. Oh yea thats exactly what would go down no matter who was the President. As for JEWS who can't stand Palestinian survival tha's another line of anti-Jewish hatred you dip shits spew and it's also nonsense. The truth is it's the other way around and your just projecting. If the Arabs/Muslims ever rolled over Israel that's when we'd see a another holocaust. You want to talk about ethnically cleansing well the fucking Arabs ethnically cleansed their entire world after 1948 of all JEWS. I didn't hear anyone weeping for the millions of YES, Jewish immigrants driven from these countries their homes and land seized. Cowardice? You got this all turned around. It's the weasals that strap bombs of kids and women and blow up buses and restaurants that are the cowards. If they had any balls or any morals these so called mullahs and their ilk would be the ones dying not young people they brainwash with their nonsense.
Hamas makes damn sure it uses civilians as insulation around it's military sites. That way they get the world and stupid leftists in America and Europe to whine on @ sites like this for the dead and dying Pal children. If Hamas were real warriors and not cowards they'd stop hiding behind their women and children and using them as weapons.
Oh and firing missiles blindly at civilian neighborhoods is what? Brave? Get real this is war total war. Hamas is fighting a war of annihilation against all JEWS and specifically Israelis. Read Hamas' literature. The Israelis know this and in my view have already given these scumbags to much leeway. I'd wipe them all out. That's right all of them. Just like WE did to the Japs at Hiroshima and every other place we fought them. Let Hamas fight to the last child that's their style isn't it? Hide behind their women and kids. Whose the cowards here?
Israel is the only country in the world that gets away with being a 'racist' state: no other country could proclaim itself a white state, or a christian state these days without becoming the laughing-stock of the civilized world. I've got a jewish family-name, but I don't think that gives me the right to claim a piece of land my ancestors may have left a couple of thousand years ago. If they'd had lived in the south of france, I might stake a claim, though.
Oh yea, try Saudi Arabia or half of the rest of the so called Islamic republics on for size. Arab muslims vote in Israel let them try that in Libya or the Sudan . Oh yea , they'd be killed for trying. No problem though because , well their Arabs or Muslims so thats ok.
Her Davids got the facts all wrong.
One country that I know well and love, Greece, proclaims itself an Orthodox Christian state. Iran's official title is "The Islamic Republic of Iran". There are seven other self-proclaimed Islamic states, including Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and Pakistan (a nuclear state!)
All this information is easily available from sources such as Wikipedia or the CIA World Factbook.
Sam Abrams
mas.smarba@gmail.com
I think there is also a Christian state in the Caucuses, but I can't remember which one.
The Israelis are baiting the Arab World.....The Neo-Conservatives really want that last chance at blowing away Iran...
What are those rockets sent into Israel? They are not missles. They are not "Weapons of Mass Destruction". They are messages,"Give us back our land."
I am offended at the nuclear weapons Israel has. I am offended at the "One sided diplomacy." I am offended at the lack of respect for human life by the United States and Israel.
The latest estimates from Iraq are that over 1,315,000 Iraqis have died since the invasion. The Israelis look at those numbers and say, "We can do better."
What a sin !
couldn't we take, say, Montana, pay all the current residents exorbitantly to move elsewhere and ... but that would be too rational i suppose. lurch on, then, to armageddon.
There is no such thing as being "jewish" or "catholic" or "baptist" or "buddhist" or "muslim" etc. etc. The only thing that is inherent is that we are human beings. If we give up the idea that we have "beliefs" we can live more peacefully.
It's time to end the pessimism and DO - boycott, divest, protest (at appropriate places!). We need a massive protest on January 20th. My heart hurts for the children, the dead, the wounded today.
I sadly fear it is time to move back to a more neutral position in the Middle East so that we do not continue to be sucked into stupidities in the region. Offer Israel a choice. Either they comply with UN resolutions just like we insist everyone else in the world do or they can no longer expect blind support and massive aid from us.
If they obey the UN resolutions we voted for (which includes stopping the admittedly illegal settlements outside their boundaries), then I have no problem seeing them kept strong and defending them if invaded with our own troops blood. On the other hand, as much sympathy as I have for them, I am no longer willing to have US interests continually jeopardized by their self interest.