Lefties for Obama, Round Two
I've written a lot of columns for Commondreams over the years. But I don't recall any that got as much response as a piece I posted recently urging lefties to support Obama. Many of the responses were heartfelt outbursts of emotion; some of them were surprisingly angry, even venomous, attacks. Hey, I thought we lefties were supposed to be the tolerant ones.
But some of the responses were quite thoughtful, and they call for a response in kind.
Most of the thoughtful writers offered a list of ways the Democrats were quite similar to the Republicans, and they challenged me to give some specific issues on which Dems are demonstrably better than the GOP. Fair enough. So here are just a few highlights. To name all the meaningful differences would take far too long for one column.
Let's start with the big economic picture. Noted economist Larry Bartels has run the numbers for the past sixty years and here's what he found: "Real incomes of middle-class families have grown twice as fast under Democrats as they have under Republicans, while the real incomes of working-poor families have grown six times as fast under Democrats as they have under Republicans."
There's no mystery about it. Republican economic policy aims, above all, to protect the interests of the very rich. They make nearly all their money from investments. Inflation is their greatest enemy, because it eats up the profits they expect from their investment. So Republicans regularly throw the economy into recession. Lots of people lose their jobs, which means wages go down, which means inflation stays low.
That's why we had major recessions during the first Reagan administration, the George H.W. Bush administration, and the current Bush administration. Republicans are happy to see the middle class and the poor suffer, as long as they damp down inflation to protect the rich.
On top of that, of course, the GOP gives massive tax cuts to the rich, much larger than the Democrats. That runs up budget deficits. With government having to borrow huge sums, there's more competition for investment capital, so interest rates go up. Working people have to pay more on their mortgages and credit cards, but the rich get better returns on their investments.
Labor unions give huge sums to the Democrats because they understand these significant differences between the economic policies of the two parties. In return, of course, Dems are much more likely to support legislation that protects the rights (and the safety) of workers and helps unions build their strength. Republicans have a long record of supporting laws that gut labor's efforts to organize.
Perhaps the biggest single group of workers who are consistently pro-Democratic is not a union but a professional organization: the National Education Association. Teachers know that Republicans pursue all sorts of strategies for de-funding and weakening public schools. Democrats consistently support public education, which in effect means the right of poor children to get as good an education as the rich.
All of this points to a larger pattern that is sad but true. When you ask "What have the Democrats done that's clearly better than the Republicans?", it can be hard to find powerful answers, because Democrats spend most of their political energy and capital just preventing Republicans from doing even worse things. So the biggest differences between the parties are often most evident when you ask what the Democrats have not done.
Consider Bill Clinton's presidency. When the Republicans took control of Congress in 1994 they had a horrendous program called the Contract with America. Clinton risked his political career by throwing the government into gridlock to prevent most of that Contract from becoming law -- one of the many cases where Democrats saved us by making sure nothing got done.
In foreign policy, Clinton resisted pressures for sending U.S. troops out to kill people for a number of years. Finally, tragically, he ordered the attack on Serbia that many of us protested loudly. But he refused to launch the attack on Iraq that the neoconservatives demanded in 1998, even though it would have been politically popular. And Clinton certainly needed to take politically popular steps, to counter the political attack that got him impeached and largely paralyzed his administration. Again, a Democrat spending nearly all his time playing defense.
Now consider Clinton's Supreme Court appointments: Ginsburg and Breyer. They are hardly the true progressives many of us would like to see on the court. But sandwiched in between Republican appointments like Scalia and Thomas before them, and Roberts and Alito after them, they look relatively good. At least they've been able to prevent terrible things that would have happened if their seats had gone to conservatives in the Scalia to Alito mold. Most notably, of course, they've staved off the overturning of Roe v. Wade and protected a woman's right to choose.
Unfortunately they could not prevent the Court's worst moment, handing George W. Bush the presidency in December, 2000. Which brings us to the question: Would things have been different if Al Gore had been president for the last eight years? Much might not have been different. But once again, the question is not whether either party is perfect. The question is whether one party is demonstrably better than another.
Yes, Gore probably would have attacked Afghanistan after 9/11 too. But the war against Iraq was a neocon project from the beginning. Since Clinton had resisted it, and the Pentagon resisted it too, there is no reason to think Gore would have done it.
There's every reason to think Gore would have stuck to the bipartisan, multilateral tradition of foreign policy, as Obama will -- which prevents the worst excesses of the Bush - McCain style of unilateral, preemptive attack. When Obama pledges to consult allies more and negotiate with "enemies," he's not pandering for votes. It's a politically risky position to take. So he probably really means it.
The other area in which Gore probably would have made a real difference is the one that has proven to be his real passion: the environment. A Democratic administration would have signed the Kyoto protocols long ago and given us precious years to begin reducing greenhouse gas emissions, years that have been lost under Republican rule.
As it was, the Dems have been forced to spend all their energies for the last eight years just preventing things from getting worse. Remember, the centerpiece of Bush's second term was supposed to be the privatization of social security. It didn't happen, partly because of public outrage, but partly because the Democrats worked to turn that outrage into politically effective resistance.
We saw something similar in the last month, when the administration was ready to hand $700 billion of taxpayers' money to the Wall Street investment firms pretty much as an outright gift, with only a few strings attached. And even that was too liberal for many Republicans. They wanted no strings at all. The conservatives' "insurance" plan would have let the Wall Street gamblers continue on their merry way, knowing that they'd get to keep all the profits, while the government stood ready to reimburse them for all their losses.
The plan that emerged was not good, to be sure. But the Democrats did manage to buffer its worst excesses by insisting on giving the taxpayers some assets in return for their money, some oversight, and at least a hope of some help for beleaguered homeowners.
A President Obama might have to spend most of his political energy just preventing things from getting worse. But that should be reason enough to support him.
More than that, a Democratic victory -- especially when the Democrat is an African-American -- would move the political center back toward the left, not nearly far enough, but quite perceptibly. It would create an opening for real change and a mood of expecting change, as Kennedy's election did in1960. We on the left could channel our energies into pushing the Democrats in our direction -- which is precisely what the theory of community organizing tells us to do.
If Obama and the Dems fail to fulfill the expectations for change, they could trigger the same kind of grassroots activism in the streets that we saw in the '60s. At least the possibilities would be there.
A McCain victory, on the other hand, would reverse the current leftward creep of the political center. It would create a huge impression that America really is an immovably conservative country, which would foster the expectation that nothing will or can change for the better. Once again, we'd all have to put all our energy into merely preventing the very worst. That kind of negative politics has been the hallmark, and the curse, of our national life for some 35 years now.
Some lefties seem to get a perverse pleasure from it. Apparently they enjoy feeling like an oppressed minority, always on the defensive, bewailing their powerlessness, hurling invective at anyone who suggests a more moderate view that opens the way to small but meaningful changes. I don't understand it. But I know that it won't help the poor, or the unions, or the Iraqis, or the environment, or the women fighting to protect their right of choice.
A vote for Obama is a vote for the possibility that we might begin creating positive visions and working to turn them into reality. Not a guarantee -- but at least a possibility. And then we'd have to start doing the hard work of give-and-take politics. Not voting for Obama means four more years (at least) of accepting powerlessness and working frantically just to stave off the worst political disasters. Isn't that enough of a difference to matter on Election Day?

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424 Comments so far
Show AllCan't forget to mention that it took the Democratic Party, under a Democratic president, to crush the New Deal policies that were central to American prosperity, class mobility, and social stability. Clinton shredded the social safety net, and established workfare, requiring (by threat of having one's children "taken into state custody" on the grounds of "failure to adequately provide"), requiring the poor to accept workfare assignments paying minimum wage or less that effectively permanently locked them into poverty. This instantly create a massive (desperate) Third World workforce right here in the US, to compete for jobs at a fraction of the pay of free citizens while sparing our poor corporations the financial burden of moving our jobs to foreign countries. Companies lay off segments of their workforce only to promptly bring in cheap workfare labor. Everyone loses except the corporations.
DHFabian
jclientelle,
Are you talkin to me?
If so, here's my recommendation: Find a bunch of people who believe what you do. Do things with them. Do things without them. Walk. Bicycle. Organically vegetarianize. Solarize. Put up a windmill. Grow as much of your own food as you can. If it's 10 acres, great, if it's only one lemon tree in a pot on your porch, so be it. Do it anyway. In short: be healthy, help the world and stop funding the war against you.
Then organize those folks and vote for someone who will help you help the world. Vote Green at every level there is someone to vote for, where there isn't, get your folks together, pick one of you, and all of you form the committee to get that person elected. If no one else will run, run yourself. If you don't like everything the Greens have to say, get enough people, join up, and change it. If you don't like the candidates they run, find better ones and get them to run.
Know thyself. Face your fears. Face those parts of you you least want to be. Find your own part in the system that oppresses people and nature and change it. Buy less, feel more, get into therapy and become a better instrument of your gods and goddesses. Learn. Bitesize everything. Do a little, then do a little more. Never stop.
Yep. I was. Sounds like a good blueprint, big goals and small but meaningful steps. I would add that the Greens may not always be the organizational group. Could be many things, some we have never thought of yet. (Also some might want to skip the part about therapy - that's expensive and friends, gardening, exercise, music, laughing etc. are better for some people!!)
Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
Joe
Joe,
Friends, gardening, exercise, music, laughing etc. are great—and necessary—for everybody. But we all have motivations that we are unconscious of—desires, defenses, and reactive parts. They reduce our effectiveness, and our ability to choose, express, learn, get enjoyment from friends, gardening, exercise…
I know I’ve read many of your posts but I don’t remember which side you come down on in the debate going on under dozens of article headings here—Obama or Other? Whichever…ever wonder why the people on the other side are so impervious to your brilliant insights and well-reasoned arguments? Why they don’t see what’s so obvious to you? Ever turn it around and wonder why what seems so clear and crucial to them is not apparent to you?
Neocons would simply be a tiny minority of angry and afraid griefstricken people if the rest of us didn’t feed their illusions of separateness with the angry, afraid, grieving parts of ourselves that we refuse to see. And they wouldn’t even be that if we had the wisdom and compassion to see them for who they are and love them anyway. It takes help to recover from childhood; not one in ten thousand of us is free from those emotional wounds that keep us from being what we could. Far from being a disposable part of the blueprint, coming to know yourself IS THE BLUEPRINT. Everything else is secondary. Everything else will come to you as you get clear about who you are, about what part you play in the system of the whole, and have a good talking relationship with the deeper, wiser parts of you. (Not you you, of course, but us.)
And the Greens… well the Greens are far from perfect but they’re what we have. We don’t need no (more) stinking splinterization and acrimony; if we were all healthier it wouldn’t matter what we called ourselves or how we split up the neuroses. (Which is most of what we’re doing when we choose identities—revealing the parts of us we want to finish, and that we most want to hide.) I’m a Green, but there’s never a gathering of more than 2 of us that I don’t think “Damn, we’d be 10 times more effective if we all got some help.” (OK—they—I’m already working on my stuff) Wonderful, imperfect people whose many issues get in the way of being the major party in the country.
Every one of us has our wounds, that we carry around and show to anyone with the eyes to see. Those who can see the wounds without compassion become Hitler and Goebbels and Rove and Cheney—diabolically brilliant manipulators whose actions all work in the service of their unconscious dreads and desires. Those who can see the wounds with compassion become King and Gandhi and Aung San Suu Kyi. And Mark Twain and…(fill in your own). And developing compassion (literally, "to suffer with") takes self-knowledge as well as other-understanding.
None of us gets out alive; none of us gets out alone. We might as well help each other get there together. That’s what I meant by “become a better instrument of your gods and goddesses”. If you don’t want to try psychotherapy try an alternative: Hakomi, Rosen work, Bill Bowen work, whatever you can find. If you don’t like the first person try another, and keep trying until you find someone who can help you help others. It's the only way we're going to get there, and that would be cheap at triple the price.
I think I found the study both Chernus and now Chomsky are referring to. I haven't read it yet, but here's the PDF.
The concluding two paragraphs sums it all up:
Politics and the Rise of Economic Inequality
The last four points in Figure 2 represent projections of the trend in income inequality through 2005 based on the statistical analysis reported in Table 3. The white circles, representing projections for the Bush presidency, show a return to the pattern of sharply growing inequality that marked the 1970s and 1980s. The black diamonds, representing projections of what might have been expected to occur under a Democratic president (given past historical
patterns), show a continuation of the steady state [of income distribution and inequality] that characterized the last five years of the Clinton administration. In the current economic environment neither party could be expected to reduce income inequality significantly; but the choice between Gore and Bush was, by this account, a choice between the status quo and a significant further increase in economic inequality in the first years of the 21st century. While the Democratic projection is a mere might-have-been, the Republican projection seems emphatically supported by both the macroeconomic performance and the tax policy of the Bush administration in its first two years in office.
Finally, Figure 2 also includes projections of the trend in inequality for the entire postwar period under Democratic and Republican administrations. (These are the fan-shaped pair of
dotted lines in the figure, the upper line corresponding to continuous Republican rule and the lower line representing continuous Democratic rule.) These projections are also constructed on the basis of the statistical analysis reported in Table 3, but assuming continuous Democratic or continuous Republican control throughout the period. Taken literally, they suggest that continuous Democratic control would have produced a slight decrease in inequality over the past three decades, despite the technological, demographic, and global competitive forces emphasized
in economists’ accounts of growing inequality – and that continuous Republican control would have produced a much sharper polarization between rich and poor than we have actually observed over the past thirty years, with the 80/20 income ratio growing more than 80 percent faster than it actually did. Of course, these projections are based on the rather unrealistic assumption that each party would do all the time what it in fact does half the time, and partly in response to the opposing party’s wrong-headed policies. It is by no means clear that either party would have the political will – or the political power – to produce economic redistribution of the cumulative magnitude suggested by these projections in the face of what would presumably be considerable opposition. Nevertheless, the cumulative differences in Figure 2 underline the
fundamental significance of partisan politics in ameliorating or exacerbating the “natural” growth of inequality in the political economy of the contemporary U.S.
So, one must assume that "the current economic environment" is somehow "natural" -- at least the author puts that adjective in quotes! -- and unrelated to partisan policies. "Global economic forces" that are somehow "naturally" driving income inequality must have some relation to neoliberal globalization, which, until recently (and so far in rhetoric only) has been a bipartisan sport.
Final conclusion? You just read it: most likely, an Obama administration would maintain the economic status quo, whereas a McCain administration would exacerbate income inequality. For pro-Obama folks here, that's good enough. For anti-Obama, pro-Nader (or whomever) types, that's not nearly enough. It's clear that there is a difference, at least in economic policy and outcomes, holding as "natural" policy decisions in favor of neoliberal globalization. How much difference there is in foreign policy is also under dispute but seems to me indisputably less than on the domestic/economic front. The difference to me is near zero. The "advantage" is mostly what Ira said: we weak progressives must struggle to hold back the Red-State Tide. The key to the weakness in Ira's argument is what is called "natural" here, and which stems entirely from the pro-business forces (corporations, lobbies, "think tanks") that own and operate both parties. Unless and until neoliberal globalization is overthrown (or, reversed, or pick your own word), the best we can hope for is a Democratic administration that holds a line constantly ratcheted further to the right by successive Republican administrations.
That is, until the so-called left takes a page from the Christian right and literally frightens the Democrats into moving left, all "we" can do is hold a rightward moving line from time to time.
Whether to bluff, stick, or fold is an old debate in politics, regardless of ideological content, and it's not going to be solved here. I'm in RI, and I've had enough. Obama's reversal on FISA was my breaking point: you don't fuck with what little is left of the Constitution, and if we get a nicer face for fascism, since Obama is certainly handsomer than McCain, that's not enough. The founders warned against trusting anyone with dictatorial power. Kinda the point of the country, no? Let's see whether Obama rolls back all the unconstitutional acts of the past years (not all Bush-related, I might add). If he doesn't, let's see whether Ira, et al, will still argue that it would have been worse, and whether anyone will care.
Were I in a swing state, I might think long and hard about it, since McPalin are (more) dangerous. But I might still vote for Nader in that situation.
One thing is more relevant and certain: had progressive media outlets given far more space and effort toward Nader's campaign this year, the Democrats might have gotten scared and run left hard. I didn't see that happen anywhere but on Democracy Now. Certainly not on Common Dreams.
The point isn’t that there are no differences. Of course there are. You don't have to list them yet again. The vast majority of us know that, and even the ones who say there’s no difference are speaking rhetorically or practically, NOT LITERALLY. That a very few people can’t distinguish differences shows how far to the right both #@%$&^>$# parties have moved. It suggests how traumatized we are, as a country, a species and as individuals, because this kind of black and white thinking is one sign of PTSD. It suggests those people are young or unsophisticated or unable or unwilling to see nuance. Maybe they’re not conversant in history, literature, science and other realms of knowledge needed to tell truth from lies and understand the psychological systems operating, that make lies easy to believe and obvious truth hard to recognize, that steal belief in the potential of people and dull sensitivity to our connection to Nature, including us.
A more salient point than whether we can catalog differences is how we can survive the intertwined problems we face: the near-death experience our Constitution is undergoing, the overwhelming amount of power corporations have over our lives, media, elections and government, and global climate catastrophe. They can’t be solved singly, only simultaneously. Neither #@%$&^>$# party is free to propose workable solutions to any of them, because all 3 problems have gone too far to be solved by anything but radical action, and both parties and the election system are tied in a straightjacket of corporate money. If you think the Democrats are going to take the kinds of actions that will solve any of those problems, think of—well, think of any of hundreds of issues decided in conservatives’ favor in the last 12 years—NAFTA, the PATRIOT ACT, telecom immunity, torture, impeachment for clear illegal acts and constitutional violations, and on and on. While a notable few Democrats stood up for people and nature, overwhelmingly Democrats have shown they put the interests of corporations, the wealthy, and their own re-election before meaningful elections, constitutional rule, and survival of the planet. The fact that they are going a little slower on the road to hell is of little consequence, whatever differences you point out in their driving style and car color. This is true of every issue mentioned. Democrats have allowed labor unions to be eviscerated, education to be hijacked, and on and on and on. Would those have been better with Democrats? Yes, but. Would we still be on the road to destruction of civilization? Yes. Different? Yes. A difference that makes a difference? No.
The “but” in the “yes, but” answer is that Democrats, by their inability/unwillingness to articulate values other than the punishment-obsessed conservative ones dominating today, have actually assisted Republicans in constantly moving to the right, getting Republican ideas across as unarguable truth, getting Republicans’ agenda passed, and hijacking elections (before stealing them) with the psychological sniper fire of “values” issues—Barack “Hussein” Obama, Reverend Wright, gas prices. Stand up for ideas? Democrats haven’t even stood up for themselves, allowing the media to be conservatized, allowing 2 elections to be stolen without a whimper, let alone a fight, or prevention of a recurrence, and allowing…whatever—misguided political Machiavellianism, blackmail, complicity or mystifyingly stolen strength of will—to remove their sworn duty to uphold the constitution from “the table”.
Despite running to the right when the daylight is to the left Obama’s up by enough to guarantee a win in any even slightly fair election. That they might lose anyway, despite war, economy, Katrina-scale uncaring and incompetence, thousands of acts of lawfare against the interests of the people, a moribund Constitution and scandals of every type is testament to the Democrats’ monumental failure. if they lose they more than deserve it. Stop trying to get us to go along with the surrender of dreams. Stop trying to get us to abandon our sense, integrity, our unwillingness to collapse. Stop trying to get us to validate your illogical (see Dave Lindorff, Why I’m Voting for Obama http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/10/16 )and ignorant-of-psychological-systems-and-consequences choice. Stop.
Stop.
This may be the most important election in our history, like the Romans’ choices at the time of Julius Caesar. The only comparisons I can think of: Jefferson vs. Adams, 1796, Lincoln vs. Douglass and others, 1860, FDR vs. Hoover, 1932, times when the dominant issue of the day was decided. Each involved a long-standing issue with even deeper implications , and eliminated at a stroke one path for the country and determined ever since how we lived in relation to that question. Here we are again, with a question far more important than federalism/fatherism, slavery or oligarchy. We have 10 years left maybe, to save civilization from utter chaos and unending tyranny, misery and horror. You’re wasting it on Pyrrhic compromises and “maybe we should try this and hope it works despite all the times it hasn’t”. Stop.
I don't see a recommendation here.
Joe
Noam Chomsky agrees:
"To say that it doesn't make any difference who wins is simply to express your contempt for the general population. Because it does make a difference."
"There's nothing wrong with picking the lesser of two evils. That cliche makes it sound like you're doing something bad. But no, you're doing something good if you pick the lesser of two evils. So, it is worth doing that? Or is it worth trying to act to create a potential alternative? For example: should I vote Green because maybe, someday, there'll be party-building and they'll be a real alternative, should I express my disdain for the right-wing orientation of both parties by not voting, let's say. Or should I pick the lesser of the two evils, thereby helping people?"
He, like many people here, realizes perfectly well that McCain is much worse than Obama.
Chomsky Says Pick the Lesser of the Two Evils
I have a great deal of respect for Chomski but if he says we should vote agaisnt our principles he's wrong. I don't vote based on someone else's opinion. I'll never vote for sellouts. Sorry.
Principles? You're simply putting egoism on a pedastal. You're enshrining selfishness.
You don't give a damn who wins the election and in the real world it makes a difference.
But you've managed to convince yourself it doesn't.
Lesser-evilism leads down a spiral that is now unacceptable. To me they are both prowar. Enough said I don't vote for war. You want to, good. Be a good German.
I think everything that can be said on this issue has been said over and over. I skimmed all the 407 comments here and nothing was new. The two basic trends persist.
Now can we (liberals, moderates, Obama, Nader, McKinney supporters, total cynics, revolutionaries, weary warriors and everyone who is counter and original) agree on one thing?
After the elections we need to build upon local issue-based groups so that they can influence politicians and also contend as independents for ACTUAL WINS in the electoral arena?
Joe
Have you ever noticed how insulting these Obama supporters are -- really Democratic party supporters since we'd be told exactly the same bullshit no matter who was the candidate.
"Some lefties seem to get a perverse pleasure from it. Apparently they enjoy feeling like an oppressed minority, always on the defensive, bewailing their powerlessness, hurling invective at anyone who suggests a more moderate view that opens the way to small but meaningful changes. I don't understand it."
Well here's a thought for you professor: maybe you should study hard until you DO understand it and only then comment. Until then you should be asking questions not issuing insulting demands. Maybe if you took the time to understand why people disagree with you instead of simply assuming the validity of your case you'd be in a better position to talk. You can start by asking yourself why some people would NOT think that always voting for the lesser of two evils no matter how awful is a great idea. Maybe then you might realise that it's your ideas that,
"won't help the poor, or the unions, or the Iraqis, or the environment, or the women fighting to protect their right of choice."
I can't believe how ignorant and bad these Obama supporters are. I can't wait till more people join with third parties.
How can Obama run a conservative campaign? We, Nader supporters got his back when the media crucifies him. Word up! Fa real ma brothers and sisters. We got it like that.
The democrats suck. Edwards would have done nothing for poor and working people. Kucinich wont even be able to talk to Obama. The Democratic Black Congressional Caucus, who are some of the most liberal members of congress will not get to be heard more.
Obama is Uncle Tom. I know what he is going to do by how he is running now. His votes in Congress now have nothing to do with the election. Just because he ran for the Democratic nomination as more of a progressive, then switched when he began the general election doesn't mean anything. It is the second switch that matters. And once you switch once you cannot switch back. That is not allowed. Do you get my reasoning. Hope so you dope.
Besides, those of you who think he is trying to build a coalition and not alienate people who could hurt him in the election are stupid. I am sure he is not making sure more democratics will get into congress along with him by playing politics.
This is no time for politics people! It is time to vote your conscience! Believe me if Nader were elected he would dismantle the whole system all by himself practically. He does not need friends or does not have to take the time to build a broad based movement. He is Nader. He will talk you to death. He has been to the mountaintop. He is a real leader. He moves and motivates people.
As some of my fellow third party supporters have stated like Chris Getsome, people like Ira are for incremental changes and I am talking about the immediate change of slowly building a viable national third party pronto! Don't listen to these goofballs like Ira Chernus, the Professor of Religions who is also a political activist. He is so lame. Please don't even consider what he has to say.
If Obama wanted to be a good president then he would be more like Kucinich and freak everybody out! The way to get elected is to make lots of powerful enemies and then do a complete 180 after you are elected. You gotta take it to the rich and powerful and totally alienate them so they go after you with a vengeance. Especially if you are black. The media and the real progressives like me will be there to back you up. Yup!
After reading comments here, thank goodness most of you leftists do not support democrats and will have ZERO influence on an Obama administration. Thank goodness!!!! You leftists should stay in the wilderness. You should just keeping posting on left wing websites like this. It will keep you all busy doing worthless stuff. Have fun.
And I hope Nader's mutual funds dropped hard in value! Capitalistic hypocrite.
Hardly any further than Obama's portfolio dropped. The difference of course is that Nader does not accept corporate investments into his campaign while Obama does.
As for Ira, well, the Cat just does not get it!
You figure Law firms aren't corporations?
oops
After reading every comment since this apologetic appeared, it is promising to note that there is indeed a progressive movement still active in this country; but it is not represented by people like Ira. Sadly, Ira has been morphed into the status quo, and the only thing he has left is his belief in incrimentalism. He notes that what he and Obama represent is "small but meaningful change" but how does one reconcile climate change with that overly broad proposal? What exactly does "meaningful change" mean? Ira does not tell us (his sentiments strangely void of details), nor does he really offer anything but wide opened generalities that spray a whiff of fragrance in the air that then dissipates quickly.
It begs the question, does Ira actually believe that climate change can be reversed with small incremental steps? Ira's views are a powerful rejoinder against the enfranchised, but it hardly offers meaningful change for the disenfranchised. And it is inimical to the Earth community of beings, in that Obama's environmental plan is as backwards as McCain's, but this is especially true on the heels of the biggest corporate giveaway of all time. So what can we take from Ira and his ilk? Well, the more things change, the more they stay the same. The single corporate party continues to toggle back and forth through the years protecting the moneyed interests they both represent.
Hello?
It is so nice to once again come to this site and find another bunch of comments bashing Obama and any author that dares to hold out some hope for the next four years.
Really nice again to see so called liberal third party supporters offering nothing but negative energy to the movement.
Obama sucks! Vote Nader. Like 99% of those that come here don't already know that Obama is not going to save us from ourselves.
With all these great thinkers supporting Nader it is hard to believe he wont get 5%. After all when he ran in 2000 for the greens under the banner of getting them into the presidential debates the following election cycle that went really well.
I love how cool he is. Like when he went before the Congressional Black Caucus in 2004 and one admonished him for being an uppity white man and he got all angry and demanded and apology saying it was like being called a racial epithet. Yeah, go back to Connecticut Nader, where I grew up and where by the way he and his eccentric family do nothing for the inner cities or the working poor of that or any other state.
Oh yeah, I forgot, every four years he runs for Prez and in between he gives speeches but refuses to get his hands dirty and actually do something. It is easy, as all you people know to armchair quarterback politics. If I was in there here was what I would do, blah blah blah.
How convenient that most of you people wont have anything to do in the next four years since it will probably be the evil democrats holding office. Oh well. Such a big loss I am sure.
Reflexive sanctimony unburdened by any facts is supposed to convince readers of what exactly?
When insulting fantasy comprises your political critique, take it as a clue that something is missing there.
Insults are all they have left after rejecting all principle.
And the award for snobbiest critiques of my postings goes to seriousprofessor. I award you a monocle to wear with your moniker. I hope to see more of your witty rejoinders after the election. I am sure you have nothing better to do than to troll CD and practice using your thesaurus. Well done.
Of course anyone who reads my post without their monocle might not see any facts there.
You put me in mind of Republicans who respond to their intransigent extremism by pouring on more, as you respond to a critique of your empty personal rants by pouring on more.
I ask again: this is supposed to convince us of what exactly? I mean what you present as an argument, and not your snotty personal comments.
Sorry...I forgot a few of President Clinton's other accomplishments:
* Removed the rule requiring Alaskan pipeline oil to remain in the US for processing and distribution (as a favor to major contributor ARCO)
* Opened up the previously undeveloped Alaska National Oil Reserve for drilling, an area larger and just as pristine as the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge.
* Sold (practically gave away) Elk Hills Petroleum Reserve to Gore family benefactor Occidental Petroleum. Still one of the largest gov't giveaways to corporations in US history.
* Signed into law the Timber Rider, which opened up all old-growth forests to virtually unrestricted logging (repealed only after massive protests).
"Consider Bill Clinton's presidency." OK, let's do that:
* Passed NAFTA, the most effective union-busting device since the robber barons hired Pinkerton agents to kill strikers.
* Passed NAFTA, the most effective anti-environmental legislation in US history.
* Passed GAAT and formed the WTO (see items above).
* Passed Telecommunications Act of 1996, allowing for consolidation of all media into a few corporate hands (including Rupert Murdoch).
* Repealed the Glass-Steagall Act, which separated investment banks from depository banks.
* Passed 2 major crime bills, expanding the death penalty and swelling prison populations to historical highs. The anti-drug segments also set the precedent for detaining offenders without bail or access to an attorney.
* Passed the Welfare Reform Act, which flooded the economy with cheap (and desperate) labor, took away social safety nets for the most vulnerable members of society (mostly single moms).
* Ended Affirmative Action, removing opportunities for minority worker and women to advance in their professions.
If the McCain Progressives (see below) had put half the energy into organizing as they put into attacking Obama they might have had a chance to accomplish something this year.
But of course, they didn't.
It will be interesting to see which ones are still here after the election. My guess is the do-nothing-to-promote-3rd-parties-&-everything-to-attack-Obama posters will mysteriously disappear.
This kind of thing is just lame.
A lot of the people who support 3rd party candidates here are some of the most civic-minded and politically involved people in the country.
BTW I wanted to add that globalization, the favorite grandchild of the Democrats and Republicans, has killed American industry, in case anyone hasn't noticed. In turn this is killing off stable American culture, taking with it what is left of values from the previous generations.
Go shop for Chinese made stuff at WalMart if that floats your boat. To me that is just depressing.
I live in America, that is where I would like to see my belongings manufactured. Excuse me for being old fashioned.
Obama talks a big show but his basic policy ideas wouldn't change a thing for the better about globalization. Which is basically colonialization.
And you (ctrl-z) will be wrong, as usual.
Wrong, as usual?
So the do-nothing-to-promote-3rd-parties-&-everything-to-attack-Obama posters will not mysteriously disappear?
Then I guess I'll be seeing more of your posts.
Damn.
Sorry, we will be here pointing out just how wrong you were and you will probably go into either serious depression or serious denial. Which one do you think it will be?
Well, if you're going to be pointing out how McCain would have done a better job than President Obama, I'll probably be doubled over with laughter.
Hey, here's a thought - instead of spending all your time bitching about the next President, whoever it is, why don't you spend some time helping organize whatever third party you support? Then maybe in 2012 or 2016 or 2020 or whenever, you might actualy field a candidate who can win.
Hey why don't you mind your own business and stop telling me what to do Dim? If you don't like what I say go take a hike and don't read it.
Oh yeah, and who the hell put you in charge of CD? I pay my dues every single time CD asks for donations and I resent you trying to filter the content.
I hope to God your faith in Obama is well placed. You seem so sure in your derision of Kucinich, then Nader, supporters.
I think we'll still be here in '09 and '10 and '12 to either, with relief, congratulate Obama, Pelosi and Reid for their commitment to democracy and People over the corporations or to monitor and comment on the capitulation to Wall Street and the military by the Democrats.
If however this national Democratic Party commitment does not materialize, I trust you will have the grace to admit you and the nation were conned once again! Yes, we'll be here to ask, "What do Democrats (or Republicans) have to do to lose your vote?"
With all due respect. The media and politicians have played us over the years. The neocons have brought to the surface some of the underlying evils that plague the world and American politics. People are waking up.
By the way, we now have a thing called the Internets and a bevy of grassroots and DIY movements. It is not about Obama, Pelosi could be on her way out, Reid is a dullard. Obama could be the first wave of a new movement.
Of course if Dems play middle of the road politics with all of the new components in play then true progressive will have to build on a third party. It is not up to them to motivate us, it is up to us to motivate them. We have to wrestle away the power from inside the halls not demand it from outside the building.
We must be the change we are demanding.
And you will die of boredom and loneliness.
Another good line.
You should consider making all your posts one liners.
That is hilariously funny!
Perhaps. But we will die with a clear conscience and not sell out (again) to the Demopublicans nor the Republicrats, the duopoly complicit in crime, corruption, and an illegal and immoral war.
The problem with the pencils is that they are made in China and try as you might, they can't be sharpened and are useless as writing instruments. You are better off throwing out the broken, useless and dull pencils and getting new ones.
In round one, Chernus said Obama is "better than McCain." In round two, Chernus says Obama is "better than McCain."
I'm really eager to read round three.
But...
In the four years since Barack Obama was elected to the US Senate, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis died under the genocidal American Occupation of Iraq, but Barack Obama went-along-to-get-elected by voting for every bill to fund the Iraqi Holocaust along with the collaborationist Congressional Democrats, and his plan for withdrawal from Iraq is so slow that the Iraqis will throw us out before Barack Obama would have withdrawn our brave soldiers from their hopeless mission, because...
Nothing really matters to Barack Obama except electing Barack Obama.
In the four years since Barack Obama was elected to the US Senate, the environment continued to collapse, but Obama went-along-to-get-elected with the do-nothingism of Congressional Democrats and even supported offshore drilling, while the worst nightmares of environmentalists turned into reality during the long, long Presidential campaign, and an unthinkably enormous residue of methane in the Siberian tundra began to boil out of previously frozen lakes, but...
That probably doesn't even ring the tiniest little bell in the brains of fanatical Obamabots and the rest of the brain-dead Democratic Party, much less Republicans or so-called "independent voters," idiots so totally out of touch with reality that they are still considering a vote for John McCain and Sarah Palin, and because the evaporation of the unthinkably enormous residue of methane in the Siberian tundra is a complete non-issue with voters, Barack Obama could afford to totally ignore it, even though it seals the deal for catastrophic climate change, because...
Nothing really matters to Barack Obama except electing Barack Obama.
Barack Obama supported NAFTA-Peru, even though he knew that 4,000,000 Peruvian workers were conducting a general strike against it, but Barack Obama could afford to sacrifice the jobs and farms of millions of Peruvian farmers and workers, and millions of American jobs along with them, because he knew that if he attacked Hillary Clinton about NAFTA long and often enough, the brain-dead Democratic Party would forget that he supported NAFTA-Peru, and he could still pass himself off a friend of organized labor even while he sacrificed jobs and farms to make himself look pro-business, because...
Nothing really matters to Barack Obama except electing Barack Obama.
Barack Obama, the lawyer who never tried a case in court, Barack Obama, the law professor who never published a scholarly article, endorsed the most radical judicial initiative of the NRA, "the individual right to bear arms," which had been rejected by every Supreme Court for 200 years before the Scalia/Bush Court invented this bogus "right," and Obama could afford to support the abrogation of the District of Columbia's ban on handguns, even though 4000 black teenagers die from handgun violence every year, because Barack Obama, the lawyer who never tried a case, Barack Obama, the law professor who never published a scholarly article, knew that supporting the NRA wouldn't really hurt him with mainstream Democrats whose only real program for black teenagers is slamming them into prison for minor drug crimes, and so Obama sided with Scalia against all previous Supreme Courts and supported the previously non-existent "individual right to bear arms," which will make it virtually impossible to maintain even the pitifully weak gun-control laws that are already on the books, much less write more restrictive laws to save the lives of thousands of black teenagers every year, because...
Nothing really matters to Barack Obama except electing Barack Obama.
Obama promised to filibuster the FISA bill when he was campaigning in Wisconsin with Russ Feingold, but when that miserable bill finally came up for a vote, Obama broke his promise because, as Glenn Greenwald said, "Obama has obviously calculated that sacrificing the rule of law and the Fourth Amendment is a worthwhile price to pay to bolster his standing a tiny bit in a couple of swing states," and because...
Nothing really matters to Barack Obama except electing Barack Obama.
Barack Obama went-along-to-get-elected with the $700 billion give-away to banks that did (almost) nothing for home-owners in trouble and didn't even slow down the catastrophic unravelling of the financial system, because fighting for much better alternatives that would have restored a little control over the financial system to the public might have exposed Obama to criticism by McCain and cost Obama a few votes, and because...
Nothing really matters to Barack Obama except electing Barack Obama.
But some of us still can't understand the transcendent importance of electing Barack Obama, compared to electing any other middle-of-the-road Democrat, much less a really principled progressive like Dennis Kucinich or a Rhodes Scholar like General Wesley Clark, whose national defense credentials would make McCain look like exactly the inept ex-pilot that he is.
Was it really worth sacrificing the Fourth Amendment and the environment and millions of jobs in Peru and the United States and the lives of thousands of our brave soldiers and thousands of black teenagers and the lives of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and the homes of millions of distressed home-owners...
Just to elect Barack Obama?
"Yes it is!" says Barack Obama, "It's worth sacrificing anything and anybody to elect Barack Obama!"
So Barack Obama went along with Bush/Cheney to get himself elected every time there was the slightest chance that opposing Bush/Cheney might cost Barack Obama a few votes, because...
Nothing really matters to Barack Obama except electing Barack Obama.
Apparently it's very important to Ira Chernus that the sociopathic con-man Barack Obama is "better than McCain," but for some of us, "better than McCain" isn't good enough.
Is there anybody or anything the Democrats couldn't sell with the pathetic excuse that it's better than McCain?
Jacob Freeze
I'll vote for a door-knob or a box of toothpicks before I waste
another vote on a Democrat.
I'll vote for a hatbox with a severed head in it before I waste
another vote on a Democrat.
I'll vote for a paper-clip under my refrigerator before I waste
another vote on a Democrat.
It isn't a choice between Nader and the Democrats!
It's a choice between Nader and a plastic spoon with ants on it!
It's a choice between Nader and four broken pencils!
It's a choice between Nader and a 1988 Oklahoma license plate!
It's a choice between Nader and nothing!
Jacob Freeze
Silly guy.
It's a choice between Nader and McKinney and the rest.
By golly, you nattering nabobs of negativism give me the fan-tods!
Don't you see that our nation is in such dire straits that THIS time around, the only sensible choice is to VOTE for those four broken pencils-- and then put our shoulders to the wheel, and our noses to the grindstone, and put on relentless pressure to SHARPEN those pencils!
The pencils have made it no secret that they're PREPARED to be sharpened, if We the People will bear them aloft on Our collective shoulders and hoist them to the sharpener! Or, alternatively, lift up surviving grandfathers who carry pocketknives, and whittle those suckers sharp the old-fashioned way!
And if THAT doesn't do it for you, how about we ELECT that plastic spoon? No spoon is perfect, you know, certainly not silver ones, as the last eight years have so painfully taught us-- then start building coalitions on the local level to chase those damn ants off! One at a time, maybe, but at least that's REAL progress. And you'll never get that by sitting there with your thumb up your ass and just WISHING for a clean spoon!
And if you're STILL not convinced, how about SUPPORTING that paper clip, blowing the dust off it, and STRAIGHTENING it OUT in the process by holding that clip to the fire...
I'm glad you agree someone who helped murder a million Iraqis is not perfect. But he is so close to perfect isn't he? How many Iraqis murdered would have made Obama perfect? Half a million?
Of course Obama is running to the right of McCain on foreign policy now.
Ah yes and this election is the most important of our lives, just like they all are. What I don't understand is why when an election is important that means we should discard our principles as you have and vote for the second worse candidate we can find among all of them?
Ah but you say elect crap and THEN from a position of weakness work to do something good. How? How do you do that exactly and why didn't that work on Bush? Why wouldn't it work on McCain?
Ho hum...... Heard it before. Many times. Been there. Done that, many times too often. Never again. Run Ralph. Run!
America's epitaph: The Big Engine That Couldn't !
The argument in favor of voting for Obama and Democrats can be destroyed by asking one simple question: WHAT HAVE THE DEMOCRATS DONE FOR YOU?
What have the Democrats done about the war?
-nothing, they want an escalation in Afghanistan
What have the Democrats done about illegal government spying?
-made it legal
What have the Democrats done about Bush's excesses?
-said impeachment is off the table
What have the Democrats done about the Wall Street bailout?
-spearheaded it
What have the Democrats done about the humongous military budgets?
-desired to make them bigger
What have the Democrats done about the Republican drive for offshore drilling?
-embraced it
Any thinking person that cares about these issues would have to sell themselves out in order to rationalize a vote for that sellout, Obama. Sorry.
Okay, I've got it. Here are my terms. I will vote for Obama under two conditions.
1. Obama promises to ask Mr. Nader to join his cabinet, OR offers to find a position in his White House that allows Mr. Nader to pursue and bring to justice the criminal corporatists with the backing of the government, OR a position of Nader's choosing.
2. Mr. Obama promises to pardon Mumia Abu Jamal immediately upon assuming the presidency.
If Obama promises to abide by those conditions, I will be more inclined to vote for him.
I've vote Democrap again under a couple conditions:
1. Pelosi calls for impeachment proceedings, and a wrap-up, before January. And don't end with impeachment, I want to see arraignment.
2. The Dems explain why they voted for all of Bush's war requests -- and his bailout request. But they won't listen to their own grassroots on god knows how many issues. They seem to answer mainly to Bush.
Democratic apologists like Ira are leading the progressive populist movement to their own hanging. I'll shit my pants if Obama delivers on anything that progressives have been clamoring for: single-payer, a substantive change in foreign policy, widespread prosecutions of corporate criminals, etc.
The Democratic party is where progressive ideas go to die, not where they are nurtured. How many reminders do people need? Were the Democrats a great party when they had the racist Dixiecrats and Reagan among their ranks? When they took us to war in Vietnam? When LBJ presided over the fake JFK investigation (hmm...I wonder why). Under Carter? The Clintons?? Come on, Ira.
It is ironically funny that Obama and his disciples assert coalitions but always ignore the authentic left when it comes time for appointments. Obama will, of course, appointment as many status quo 'yes' men that he can find.
While I agree with your sentiments, Obama will never appoint Nader to any position of power. To be considered for a position of power in government, the first requirement is that one also be OWNED by corporate forces. Ain't going to happen, my friend. No one owns Nader.
Take Leonard Pelletier who has been rotting in prison for over thirty years based on a false conviction by a all white Kangaroo Court. Bill Clinton made sure all the corporate elites who stole from us get their golden exit plans. The difference is that Leonard did not have any cash to stuff in Clinton's pockets.
Even the judges and prosecutors have requested that Peltier be released from prison. Leonard Peliter's adult life has been that of a political prisoner, and according to Peltier his life in prison has been his Sundance. Even in his final years of ill health, the FBI continues to persecute him. Is there an honest man left in Washington?
I had a very similar thought months ago, when I was waxing wroth to an Obama supporter about the makeup of Obama's foreign policy work group-- I think that's what it's called.
The only name that comes to mind is Madeleine Albright, and Zbig Brezinski-- there were a couple of other prizes I don't feel like Googling for at the moment.
My friend, predictably, calmly said, "Well, of COURSE Obama is going to pick senior 'established' Democrats for these support groups. Who did you EXPECT him to pick-- Chomsky?"
That stopped me for a second, but upon reflection I replied that you know, choosing Chomsky is a GREAT idea! Apart from whether Chomsky would consider it, it would at least reassure real leftists that Obama really DOES "reach out" to ALL minority and "fringe" political belief.
Similarly, it would've been refreshing if Obama had at least on occasion sided with the progressive, dissenting, anti-status quo forces-- for the FISA debacle, for instance. Because my friend believes, or at least believed for a while, in Obama's claim that he's not a "top-down" boss politician, but a new, transcendental facilitator of We the People's wishes and beliefs.
After the primaries, when Obama abandoned all pretense and became a fountainhead for centrist and right-wing policies, my friend continued to stoutly explain away this one-sided skew with the usual canard of Obama's having to cautiously walk a straight line (like Jackie Robinson during his first year in the majors) in order not to unduly put off moderates and conservative voters.
All that may be partly true, but it's also true that Obama IS centrist-right, neo-liberal, corporate-cozy, and militaristic. He has a noticeable disdain for ideas and politics surviving from the Sixties. I suspect that Obama's idea of reaching out to the "left" would be, say, appointing Paul Krugman to some economic advisory position.
...and don't forget Leonard Peltier.
Yes! I shouldn't have forgotten Mr. Peltier. Add Leonard Peltier to the pardon list along with Mumia, and a position in the administration for Ralph Nader, and there's +1 vote for Obama.
As I am sure no one on CD will argue against, the Republicans are far worse than the Democrats. This alone is and should not be enough to simply vote for Obama, I agree. The problem is that for change to occur in this country it must be a built up grassroots movement that gains power not with a single presidential election, but with ever increasing support for third party candidates at many lower level positions.
No one here can argue that Nader or McKinney have any chance of winning this election. There are far too progressives in America and even those are far too dis-organized, case-in-point the existance of Nader and Mckinney running AGAINST each other. And more importantly, there are far too many sheeple Republicans, who vote party lines to keep alive the "American Dream" that one day they will be rich and should have less taxes.
I work for a large company and ALL of my co-workers will be voting McCain this Nov. and not from my lack of trying to convince them otherwise. It is an ideal that is bred into them. They fear "Re-Distribution of Wealth" as the Republicans put it. Some are simply racist... but that fact remains that this is not a landslide victory for Obama, when it easily should be. Why are we not electing someone that A) Has a chance for Victory B) Will protect Americans from the greed and excess far more than any Republican. Once this is accomplished work towards destroying the Republican party by either fixing the Democrats or electing Third party candidates to all the lower levels of Government.
We can complain all we want about Obama, for I agree he has many faults, but come Nov. either Obama or McCain will have won. We must choose the best option AVAILABLE, and from there work to grow the Third party movement to create a better option. Why do we only hear about Third party during Presidential races?
I have come to understand that the only possible way to move our country in the right direction is to Vote Obama for President and Green party on all state, local, and municipal positions. This view is not well liked on CD, but before you go yelling about how bad Obama is, just remember how great McCain and the rest of the Republicans are. And if you get one thing from everything I have to say understand this:
Third Party is NOT a Viable option for this Election since they CANNOT WIN, but we can build up this option from the base up so that someday they CAN WIN.
"Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups."
-- John Kenneth Galbraith
We are choosing the best option available.
You are picking the second worst option available.
Why do we only hear people like you singing the praises of Democrats at elections?
Maybe you should explain why voting Obama moves the country left. It obviously to me, moves the country to the right. Obama is center-right. By establishing him as a the farthest left legitimate opinion can go -- and that's what this is all about -- the country is driven to the right.
Obama for example says that being called a socialist is a deadly insult. That is an example of Obama driving the country right. How do you see him doing the opposite?
They are equally vile and corrupt.
Actually, I disagree with quite a bit in your post. Which is worse: a criminal or a crooked cop who's supposed to guard us against the criminal? I'll argue the crooked cop is worse. His hands are just as dirty, but he also wears the suit of greater integrity -- and so he's fooling people. Bush is only as bad as his opposition is weak.
Next point. Why are you telling us a third party can't win?
Each of us votes as an individual. I don't "win" or "lose" in the booth. I don't vote based on who I think will win, or some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy in which a corporate media vetted candidate is pre-destined to take the throne and I have to vote for someone they stamp as acceptable. On the contrary, my only gauge of winning or losing is whether I vote my conscience. In this sense, I am a leader in the booth -- not a follower.
I encourage all walks of political life to vote third party. It's better than not voting at all. At least it makes you feel like you said your piece.
This is an eloquent (and long) defense of something any Nader voter would grant: that Republicans are infinitely worse than democrats. Our point is that we desperately need a viable third party in this country (hopefully led by someone more hip and less fossilized than Nader) and when, oh when, is the time to get that done? This, I submit, is the perfect year. Obama is going to win this election, with or without the help of progressives. If he does not, then America has flunked an IQ test so decisively that it would be silly to speak of recovering her former dignity ever again. Middle America - all those waffling undecided couch potatoes, have to wake up this year and understand that George Bush and his people are not a smart choice. If their September 401K statements have not told them that a "C" average college grade does not qualify you for the presidency, then we are dealing not with misinformation but with a positive death wish. They need to elect Obama, not us, and I have every expectation that they will. We to the left of the left need to make sure that Nader gets more than 5% of the vote, so that the seed of a third party is planted. Don't you wish that had happened 12 years ago? Aren't you tired of being in this same, stupid, two party dilemma and being robbed by the same cynical corporate thieves, year after year? Let Ira and his moderates vote for Obama. I'm still a Nader man - the only candidate who can bring himself to speak the truth.
I agree that Republicans are infinitely worse than democrats and after all these miserable Republican years, I won't take a chance on their getting in again. This is the only opportunity we may have to get these nausea producing demons off our television sets.
Nader wont' need 5% of the vote if we give Obama enough of our votes to have some influence in his administration so they'll change the law to allow third parties in the debates.
Giving away your vote to Obama without expecting anything at all in return will influence his administration? Who are you kidding?
Hiya eze -I think you get a seat at the table by taking a seat at the table, not by waiting to be invited. Whoever is in power, if they know there is no conviction or committment behind the Nader agenda, they will ignore it. And they should.
Most of us are over 50 and have witnessed a standing wave of odious republican candidates, every single one of whom was a disastrous, unthinkable election choice. It has always been a grim, every-vote-matters affair, and it has always been a lesser-of-two-evils dilemma. How important is a third party? Isn't that system killing us every bit as much as the repubs? Lyndon Johnson killed more people than George Bush, so evil doesn't necessarily reside on one side or the other of some ideological spectrum, but perhaps in the paralysis of public discourse. We desperately need medicare style national health insurance, something enjoyed by every other industrialized country in the world, and nobody is even allowed a soapbox from which to suggest the possibility to the American people.
Our country is skidding out of control, and tweaking the steering wheel or making a few corrections isn't going to create the emergency u turn that is required. We're living in a country in which the only candidate suggesting anything approximating the radical remedies we need is being ignored, even vilified by the people who agree with him. Is there any hope for such a ship of fools?
Wishful thinking,the Dems are hardly going to break the two party monopoly.
Apologists for the Obama campaign have one argument only. If John McCain looks bad, that's good for Obama. But if McCain looks REALLY HORRIBLE, that's really good for Obama. Obama doesn't have to justify anything to the apologists, as long as HE SEEMS BETTER.
The scam is predicated on an inviolate two-person paradigm. All other candidates are anathema to democracy. The mantra is "let's face facts and suspend the reality of the ballot."
-- -- -- --
"Under their Constitution, the American People can have just about anything they want. But it seems they just don't want very much." -- Eugene V. Debs
It is what it is.
Ashley Sanders succinctly demonstrates the differences between people who characterize themselves as progressives, and those progressives who actually walk the talk. A light years difference between the two camps. In fifty years from now, the lip service progressives may catch up to the 1%...but by then, the 1% will be another fifty years ahead...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPbJY2rs0QI
Ok. I'll vote for Senator Obama. What just changed?
.
I’ll say it again…
We needed Ralph Nader as President in 2000.
We needed Ralph Nader as President in 2004.
We NEED Ralph Nader as President in 2008.
Never before as we do now
http://www.votenader.org/index.html
.
NADER IS RUNNING NECK TO NECK WITH A DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE!
It isn't Obama, it's William Jennings Bryan.
Both Nader and Bryan have lost three Presidential elections!
Can you help Nader pull out ahead with loss number four?
VOTE NADER/GONZALEZ 2008… McCain & UnAble will be glad you did…
Geesh, KDelphi doesn't mean it ! He was just kidding. He doesn't sound like the kind who would switch overnight.
I AM RE-POSTING A BEAUTIFUL COMMENT FROM "NANNIE" BURIED IN BOWELS OF THIS THREAD:
Anyone who supports Barack Obama has to ask themselves the following questions.
-- Why isn't Obama criticizing McCain for wanting to raise the Pentagon budget?
-- Why isn't Obama criticizing McCain for not supporting single-payer healthcare?
-- Why isn't Obama criticizing McCain for voting for F.I.S.A?
-- Why isn't Obama criticizing McCain for supporting Joe Lieberman?
-- Why isn't Obama criticizing McCain for supporting the war in Iraq?
-- Why isn't Obama criticizing McCain for wanting to escalate the war in Afghanistan?
-- Why isn't Obama criticizing McCain for wanting to invade Pakistan?
-- Why isn't Obama criticizing McCain for wanting to invade Iran?
-- Why isn't Obama criticizing McCain for barely mentioning torture?
-- Why isn't Obama criticizing McCain for not mentioning the poor and the working poor?
-- Why isn't Obama criticizing McCain for supporting the $850 billion Wall Street bailout?
-- Why isn't Obama criticizing McCain for not mentioning corporate welfare -- corporate welfare averaging BEFORE the $850 billion bailout $125 billion per year.
-- Why isn't Obama criticizing McCain for supporting companies like Wal-Mart's?
-- Why isn't Obama criticizing McCain for taking millions of dollars from Corporate America?
-- Why isn't Obama criticizing McCain for supporting Henry Paulson, the former head of Lehman Brothers; or Robert Gates, the current Secretary of Defense?
-- Why isn't Obama criticizing McCain for voting for the Patriot Act as well as the reauthorization of the Patriot Act?
-- Why isn't Obama criticizing McCain for supporting the bankruptcy bill, a bill that punitively affects the average wage earner?
-- Why isn't Obama criticizing McCain for supporting an increase in the US military presence throughout the world?
-- Why isn't Obama criticizing McCain for taking impeachment off the table?
The answer to ALL these questions is the same .. BECAUSE OBAMA IS DOING THE SAME THING!
.
All great points. Bottom-line is that Bush rose to the height (or sank to the depths -- pick whatever metaphor you want) mainly due to his non-opposition. Obviously is wasn't his own merits. It's become clear to me that the Democratic Party was instrumental in playing foil, whipping boy, laying down political cover, feigning outrage every now and again, etc.
But let's be honest here -- that carcass of a party voted for all of his war requests. The corporate media, and "public" radio, often tried to cover for the democrats, by means of explaining that they didn't have enough votes for an override. But since Congress WRITES the bills, they could have written Bush a bill for a penny -- and let him sign or veto it.
The media has also tried to cover for the Democrats, in the latest war expenditure, by explaining that it would be "unpatriotic" not to vote for military pay increases, etc. -- especially in an election year.
Again, Congress could have written two separate bills, to tease apart the issues and minimize political liabilities. One bill would contain the salary increases, and allow Congress -- everyone, really -- to demonstrate that they "support the troops". The second bill would be that 1 penny budget for Bush's war. Perhaps a third bill to full fund the troops in a safe pullout.
But alas, we're left with some sort of cognitive dissonance -- somehow led to believe that the conniving democrats really do disagree fundamentally with Bush, but for this reason, that reason, or the other, they just can't do anything. Bullshit.
And also why isn't Obama asking McCain if he will undo all of Bush's signing statements and help enact whatever legislation that must be passed to assure all future presidents accept and enforce every law given them by Congress? (Why this is even necessary I'm not sure but apparently it is.)
"no gods, no masters" --m. sanger
Thanks. I saw it. It is a group of questions that Obama supporters wil just rationalize away with, "look, i know, but, yeah, but, you know.COME ON!! Youre making it not fun anymore! And stuff"
I can only say that I'm disappointed but not surprised by Lindorff and Chernus.
CD has a history of giving space to writers who ultimately are irrelevant. The Democratic Party leadership knows that writers posting here are of little or no consequence, for when it's time to "come home" they will not demur.
As Dem Party hack Lawrence O'Donnell famously said in the film An Unreasonable Man, "The Left? We never consider them. After all, where are they going to go?"
And hey, Mr. Chernus, you have a nice day.
You are wrong.
All of the worthy accomplishments of the Democrats have been as a result from pressure from the Left.
The arguments here are closeminded, cynical and infantile.
So why are you now opposed to putting pressure on the Democrats by voting 3rd party?
And what "worthy accomplishments" are you referring to in, say, the last quarter century?
I'll be awaiting your reply, Vern. Please be specific when you refer to those accomplishments.
Remember, you are refuting the assertion of the vaunted Lawrence O'Donnell...
Most folks forget that it wasn't so much the economy that swept in the Clintons-now accepted as historical fact, rather it was the abortion issue. That women's march was the largest demonstration to date that I've ever been in and I have been to many of them over the years. You literally had to hold the hands of the people you were with or otherwise risk losing them in the pressing river of bodies. The Clintons defused that issue but it has been downhill from there. I didn't claim a timeline, however, only that it was traditionally the progressive Left who propelled the agenda. What good is it if it relegates itself to isolated and increasingly irrelevant footnote on the fringe?
Again, I challenge your assertion that the Left has influenced the Democratic Party. I asked you for some specifics in the last 25 years. Just one example would be helpful. Instead you gave readers here the above comment WHICH IS TOTALLY IRRELEVANT and historically inaccurate.
I think it's time you watch the video link below (without prejudice) and re-examine your assertion that the national Democratic Party establishment cares one iota for anything the Left is demanding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPbJY2rs0QI
I just responded to you but you can choose to ignore me if you like. You are giving me the perimeter of the last 25 years and you know as well as I that it is a sorry record. We shall see if the penulum swings back.
And no, IT WAS NOT IRRELEVANT because I was there I KNOW that it was accurate. It may be fucking irrelevant to you, but I was here during the 60's and I spent over a month in prison for civil disobedience, so you can take your elitist leftist bravado and shove it because you aren't going to get anyone to hear you out if you are so busy rejecting anyone who you might work with.
I didn't reject "you", just your assertion. I'm hardly an elitist, if you're going to resort to name-calling. I think Obama and McCain would qualify as elitists.
I've participated in and organized street actions. I'm still recovering from organizing a five month curbside lobbying effort on impeachment.
I ran for Congress against the Iraq War and for single-payer healthcare in 2002 as a third party candidate. Both the Dem and Repub were for the war and against single-payer. Nothing, thus far, has changed.
You asserted that Clinton won in '92 because of the abortion issue. What's your proof of that?
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history.do?action=tdihArticleCategory&id=4895
Maybe they should change the name to "Common Democrats". Its more fitting of the censored selection of articles posted these days. All pro-Democrat crap all the time. Meanwhile, any real progressive voices are banned until after the election. Its rather sad actually.
And from what I've seen over the years of CD, it seems that the people who run the site really do have different values from the pro-war, pro-corporate, pro-police state views of the Democratic Party. Its rather beyond me why they would support Democrats.
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"To know, and not to do, is not to know"
www.samsonsworld.blogspot.com
I can't say that the CD people aren't fair. Ira's got his reasons, and his rationalizations. The useless articles, "I'm voting for Obama because...", or "Here's why it's different this time...", yeah they just tout the same garbage Democrats have been feeding us for ... as long as I've been voting...
but there is a nice, new Ralph Nader article up on the front page.
So they are giving a voice to the left, even if it is kind of lost among the clutter of deluded Democrats touting the usual tired b.s. about maybe, hopefully, if you cross your fingers and HOPE, it will be different this time...
However, in the end, I'd have to say Ira and CD deserve some respect for giving a forum to real progressive voices. They are there. Among the clutter.
But notice that at the bottom of the article, there's no mention of Ralph running this year. What does THAT tell you?
Good point.