Conservatives/Liberals the terms are outmoded. Governors are less interested in the governed than they are about Re-election. Would *"Native Criminal Class", be a better Descriptor? *Gore Vidal

Well then we have a loser...(I purposely crossed out the Capital LOSER to rethink it and correct in lowercase).
We are all making good points here.
Even the ones that are written by our friends who share different views.
I giggled and snorted at the European/American viewpoint of the American system
but I took it in good faith since it was written for a "Yuk", and it makes the point that we are all a little down on the pol's as a whole.
Did you read the one above about the different understanding of elitists and the income differences between the politicians and the "really, really, really rich".
the humor is there to be seen even if the authors are using a style of humor that we call "Camp".

I posted the "Classism" Reply in responding to the post by
Thoughts_Into_Action September 6th, 2008 6:21 pm
Regarding the comment about Wal Mart in the article by Bill Maher (below).

"Even though Wal-Mart's owners are among the top richest Americans, they make their workers apply for Medicaid rather that pay for an
affordable health insurance plan for their employees. And it's Wal-Mart's employees who made the Waltons rich in the first place."

"I guess that's classism, rather than elitism - but that's kind of splitting hairs."

For fairness here's the beginning of my post (look it up)
hman September 9th, 2008 1:22 am
Bingo for injecting the word "Classism" yet again into a discourse about politics.
The term is so overused that we don't even flinch when someone uses it in speech.....

Now let's look at the responses we have discussed.
I want to slow this down and ask if you want to hit each other or do you want to talk about Bill Maher's article.
I'm interested in hearing what you think about the article and I apologize if my comments about the term "Classism". were a reaction to a term I read in a post that describes "Classism" as a strategy for keeping hard working Wal Mart employess un- or under-insured by a tricky policy of lying to them about what they should be paying for (and getting away with it to boot), because these same hard working employees want and need insurance for there families.
That's not humorous in the least, but the ability to make humorous statements about the working class poor is a required statement that is supposed to keep you from getting involved in an emotional reaction that would get you arrested for assult (rather than a thought out strategy to expose the employers and get the employees better conditions).
hman

Most RepubliCONs aren't truly interested in the really serious issues facing our country after 8yrs under their party's rule. They'd rather spout lies about Obama being a Muslim (which is a lie) or he's an illegal alien (patently ridiculous) or that we're liberal nut cases who are picking on Palin simply because she's a woman. Or, and this is my favorite, Palin has more national security experience than Obama because Alaska is next to Russia so she's used to "staring into the eyes of Putin on a daily basis." You can't make this $hit up!! And I'm nauseated by the constant remark that she has "more executive experience" than both Obama & Biden. I guess they forget that technically, she's got more than McCain too. But then again, just because you did something, DOESN'T mean you did it WELL. Thank God there is the internet so lies and propoganda can be exposed. The problem is that too many people are too lazy to do the research and find out the facts...They'd rather be spoon-fed sometimes false information by the RepubliCONs because its easier than facing the truth. And since the mainstream media is owned by corporations that have their own interests to protect & promote, you can't rely on them for TRUE fair & balanced reporting. TV reporters don't do "investigative reports" anymore. I can remember the days when those reporters did stuff like going undercover to expose grocery stores soaking meat in bleach to save a few $$$. Well, now they have the chance to make a true difference in the outcome of what is arguably THE most important & historical election in American history. Where is the reporter who still remembers what it means to have a obligation to report the news WITHOUT bias and tell the FACTS so we the people can make OUR OWN informed decisions? Yes, the truth is sometimes scary & messy. But its like forensics...the facts don't lie...people do....

"Change comes through building a social movement, and voting for a third party" -musawwir

Change that did not come in 2000 or 2004 and that will not come in 2008. At this rate we'll likely be extinct by the time Change shows it's shiny little head.

Altrurian

Who's more elitist, a Harvard educated junior Senator from Illinois who made a spot on analysis of the broad American babbittry and the phony distractions that are floated as "issues" to divert their attention, or a Phyllis Schlafly avatar who thinks she will live forever in a physical neverland because she made an elective decision to adopt improbable explanations for existance, while those who don't drink that koolaid will spend a corporal eternity in abject torment, in the worst place she can imagine.

Who would'nt want to be "in that number" when the saints come marching in. That's elite!

In a classless society Bill Maher will spend Mondays scrubbing his toilet, Tuesdays tending his garden, Wednesdays repairing his house, Thursdays helping his family/community, and Fridays yapping on his talk show. We progressives are working toward the day when Bill has to roll up his sleeves and get down to work. In the meanwhile, it hardly matters what he yaps on his talk show.

'Look, if you go to almost every institution of higher learning in this country you will find that the vast majority of students avoid subjects requiring critical thinking."

Maybe they're just trying to get a job. The complete college experience is nice if you can afford it.

"Most college students do poorly in math and philosophy classes involving logic. Very few take more than the required class or two."

Who's fault is that?

"And top that off with the fact that only about 1 in 5 adults in this country even has a bachelors degree or better."

Again, a bachelor's degree is nice if you can afford it.

"The point, as the vast majority that post on this forum clearly demonstrate, is how too few are capable of genuine deconstructive analysis."

And you are?

"Like assholes, everyone has opinions, but sadly most of those serve only to demonstrate why the political dialogue can be so hypocritical, so shallow and so irrelevant yet still so influential over all the sheeple."

All the while, those "sheeple" are most likely too busy trying to scrape by.

"Go ahead and follow your heart, let your emotions be your guide and you will be swallowed whole by the beast. Your heart can be a good thing, in a fair and just world, but this is not a fair and just world. If your passions and convictions are not tempered with the necessary wisdom they can and will be turned on you and diminished to ineffective foolhardiness. Bush, et al have made that abundantly clear. This forum is making that clear."

I can't say I'm being ruled by blind love. If anything, the Obama people are guilty of that. Y'know, he's a handsome guy, says nice things, and knows how to work a crowd.

"Such is the case to believe any presidential candidate, especially Nader, is going to effectively change anything. That is just plain idiotic, and clearly demonstrates a humungous ignorance for how power is actually wielded. Even W achieved nothing by himself. We the people have been swept along by a myriad of forces that have been composed over decades, by influences that are centuries old."

So let's not vote for anyone then. Let's abolish the presidency and all government.

If Nader were elected, he wouldn't be in it by himself. He'd have a cabinet full of people who share his ideals and goals, just like every other president.

"And for goodness sake, what to do with all the pseudo-intellectuals here, believing they have espoused some insight or meaningful counterpoint to who knows what next or for what purpose?"

So then let's all just shut up and let the "true" intellectuals have the floor, none of whom really have a stake in any of this. We're just working stiffs. We're not smart enough to express opinions. We'll just brainiacs like you lead the way and assume you all have our best interests in mind.

But there's no elitism here is there?

"As this article points out hypocrisy, it should be very clear and evident how republicans calling Obama an elitist is the kettle calling the pot black."

It is obvious. McCain and Obama are both black kettles imo. I just find it funny that Maher attacks elitism, and then engages in it regularly.

"Anyone who doesn't know by now that the Repugs are the elitist party should just ask Limbaugh or O'Reilly - they are after all blessed with God's gift of insight into all that ails us."

They're AN elitist party, not THE elitist party. They may more elitist than the Dems and elitist in a different way, but the Dems display their own elitism. If the Dems weren't elitists, they'd be doing more for the rank and file and the disaffected than they currently are.

"The republicans calling Obama elitist is classic deflection, and it is astonishingly incredulous the number of you that give the tactic credibility, particularly those that then actually begin to believe it's true."

The Dems and The Reps bounce shit off of each other all the time. Are they really all that different from one another?

"The new world order is at hand, and it has been made possible not by those who wield the power but by those who give it. The change that needs to happen is not about who holds the office, but by those who give the office its power. And unfortunately, that would be all of you."

Ok then, so we need to let the elites off the hook eh?

I too believe, at least at this point in time, that it will be up to the people to enact change, but I refuse to buy into the notion that ordinary folk are being justifiably punished by the policies of those in power.

Should we blame the homeless for their own plight?

How about people who are infirm and without health insurance?

What of the jobless?

Is it their fault that they suffer as they do? Did they create their own problems?

Isn't that what the conservatives do? Blame the disenfranchised for their own plight? After all, they made poor decisions didn't they? They could have gone to college by scrimping and saving and working til they drop, so that they'd have that cushy job that paid well and had benefits, right?

As a worker, one who has never voted for a Republican, I can't help but find it shameful and infuriating that there are people on the Left who would essentially suggest that the bottom 3/4, the ones who really feel the iron heel, deserve their disenfranchisement simply because they are allegedly stupid.

That's rather Satanic don't you think? Reward the strong, talented and clever, punish, the weak, unskilled, and dumb?

Look, if you go to almost every institution of higher learning in this country you will find that the vast majority of students avoid subjects requiring critical thinking. Most college students do poorly in math and philosophy classes involving logic. Very few take more than the required class or two. And top that off with the fact that only about 1 in 5 adults in this country even has a bachelors degree or better.

The point, as the vast majority that post on this forum clearly demonstrate, is how too few are capable of genuine deconstructive analysis. Like assholes, everyone has opinions, but sadly most of those serve only to demonstrate why the political dialogue can be so hypocritical, so shallow and so irrelevant yet still so influential over all the sheeple.

Go ahead and follow your heart, let your emotions be your guide and you will be swallowed whole by the beast. Your heart can be a good thing, in a fair and just world, but this is not a fair and just world. If your passions and convictions are not tempered with the necessary wisdom they can and will be turned on you and diminished to ineffective foolhardiness. Bush, et al have made that abundantly clear. This forum is making that clear.

Such is the case to believe any presidential candidate, especially Nader, is going to effectively change anything. That is just plain idiotic, and clearly demonstrates a humungous ignorance for how power is actually wielded. Even W achieved nothing by himself. We the people have been swept along by a myriad of forces that have been composed over decades, by influences that are centuries old.

And for goodness sake, what to do with all the pseudo-intellectuals here, believing they have espoused some insight or meaningful counterpoint to who knows what next or for what purpose?

As this article points out hypocrisy, it should be very clear and evident how republicans calling Obama an elitist is the kettle calling the pot black. Anyone who doesn't know by now that the Repugs are the elitist party should just ask Limbaugh or O'Reilly - they are after all blessed with God's gift of insight into all that ails us. The republicans calling Obama elitist is classic deflection, and it is astonishingly incredulous the number of you that give the tactic credibility, particularly those that then actually begin to believe it's true.

The new world order is at hand, and it has been made possible not by those who wield the power but by those who give it. The change that needs to happen is not about who holds the office, but by those who give the office its power. And unfortunately, that would be all of you.

Look at any critisism that the GOP make closely, and you will see they are describing themselves.

Who is more elite than the Megacorp CEO's that back them, none are more sexist that the group that chose a female VP simply to try to attract stray Hillary supporters, no one is more unpatriotic than those who old corporate loyalty higher than national loyalty, no one spends more money that the warmongers, and no one is less moral than the hypocritical psuedo-christians.

"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats

" a working class hero is something to be..." John Lennon

Bill Maher is closer to a Libertarian than a Democrat or an Republican. He just wants to do his show and smoke out in peace...

.

Nader can win....... The voters will decide.
Nader will change things.
Nader is our only hope.
Nader is the only choice.
Fight the Two-party system.
VOTE NADER 2008… You’ll be glad you did and so will I…

http://www.votenader.org/index.html

.

cosmobilly September 6th, 2008 8:31 pm

Bush had help...

.

Apologies in advance for "spamming" the comments sites with this message, but I'm trying to maximize exposure of this note to the CD community and get everyone to DO SOMETHING besides gripe on this website.

If the Obama campaign won't go negative on Palin, we must encourage the MSM to do so. They are showing all signs of backing off since the McCain campaign whined about the "unfair treatment."

Here’s a copy of the nasty note I sent to CNN and MSNBC, plus the Washington Post, to try to motivate them to do their job for once. Here’s the links to contact CNN and MSNBC, if you want to plagiarize my note and send them an equally angry message. I encourage everyone at CD to not only complain to these media outlets about their failure to expose Palin for what she is , but their local newspapers as well. These media outlets are hearing from the right - if we on the left are not willing to try to have our voices heard then we deserve another eight years of GOP rule.

If you don't like my note - then come up with your own - but quit your complaining here at CD and start letting the media outlets have it. Do something! And tell all your friends to write to these outlets as well...

http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form1.html?35

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10285339/

"CNN has performed its duty to the public in the past by providing reports on John McCain's involvement in the Keating Five affair, as well as details on Senator Obama's relationship to Reverend Wright, his views on patriotism, and whether or not his "Bittergate" comments reflect an attitude of elitism. I therefore look forward to CNN thoroughly reporting on the following issues that have already arisen regarding Sarah Palin. What does she have to say about the following? And why won't the Republican party allow her to be approached and questioned?

1. She is being investigated in Alaska by a Republican legislature for improperly terminating the employment of a public safety official who refused to fire or accelerate the investigation of her ex-brother in law.

2. As mayor of Wasilla, she apparently tried to fire a librarian in her home town for refusing to ban "bad books."

3. She claims she opposed the "Bridge to Nowhere" when she apparently actually supported it during her campaign for governor. She only came out "against" it when it became clear it was going to be killed anyway.

4. She is claiming she is against corruption and "politics as usual" when she apparently actually hired consultants to help her bring federal dollars into Alaska.

5. She cites as an accomplishment the sale of the governor's jet on ebay. Senator McCain has stated that she personally sold it "at a profit." The plane was actually sold months after the attempted internet sale, for a loss of some half million dollars.

6. She apparently wants to teach creationism in the public schools.

7. She apparently not only doesn't believe global warming is being caused by man, she doesn't even acknowledge that it is occurring.

8. The minister at her Assembly of God church has made numerous controversial political statements. How much of his world-view does she share? Obama ultimately disavowed most of what Reverend Wright had to say. Will Palin be willing to do the same regarding her minister, or will she embrace his positions?

Failure to subject Governor Palin to the same level of scrutiny as other candidates, i.e., providing her with special treatment, constitutes sexism of the worst kind. CNN must not back off just because the GOP is trying to argue that she is being treated unfairly. An ABC poll shows that while some 50% of the county view her favorably , almost 40% do not. (These numbers do not make her "popular" BTW.) Suggest you do your job and keep the 40% provided with the information they seek. It's a sorry state of affairs that we have to rely on the international press, Jon Stewart, Bill Maher, and of all things, the National Enquirer, to conduct proper investigative journalism.

Bill's job is going to be easy no matter who wins.

Side topic: I haven't been to the movies in years, but I am going to see Religulous.

I watched his show last night. It took a while, but I've finally had my fill of the guy.

"Barack Obama can't help it if he's a magna cum laude Harvard grad and you're a Wal-Mart shopper who resurfaces driveways with your brother-in-law. Americans are so narcissistic that our candidates have to be just like us. That's why George Bush is president. And that's where the McCain camp gets its campaign strategy."

Holy class contempt Batman! Way to rub worker's noses in shit.

The people who shop Wal-Mart do so because sadly it's often the only place they can afford to go.

Is there something wrong with doing blue-collar work?

George Bush an everyman?

No, George Bush is president because of election fraud and because he was selected by a Supreme Court full of his cronies. Stop beating down on the victims.

It amazes me when people on the left, the side that supposedly cares about working and poor people and wants to better our lot, displays so much disdain for those same people. In fact, it infuriates me to no end. Not only because I am one of those people, but because it's sabotage.

Oh yeah, Bill's an Islamophobe too. Anyone ever see the "Muslim beauty pageant" skit he did on his show once? He had a bunch of staffers walk around almost completely covered in black cloth and then proceeded to basically run down the Arab world in a way that would make Rush Limbaugh chuckle.

He's also disturbingly Zionistic, justifying and making excuses for Israel's atrocities as well as attacking every organized religion but Judaism, which he puts on a pedestal.

I also find him at least somewhat sexist. He's constantly complaining about women, often implying that women are too emotional, shallow, and thusly aren't cut out for positions of power and brags about being a womanizer. God, look at the women he dates.

Dan Savage was on also, another faux liberal. Except he's so militantly gay, he wants to seemingly disenfranchise any group he suspects harbors homophobia. His column is a demeaning, irresponsible, lightning-rod-for-gay-bashing joke, and he's not above censoring people who are a little too left-wing for his tastes. Ask Saab Lofton. The man's got an intellect and a conscience at least 2 times bigger than Maher and Savage combined.

I do think Obama's an elitist. I didn't used to feel that way, but it's becoming more and more apparent to me that he relates to wealthy white folks more than anyone, just like McCain. Except Obama's rich white friends like gay people. They have no stake in positive social change. Their lives will not change whether our next regime is Democrat or Republican.

Kick around the "little guy" all you want Bill. It's HIS life that is at stake, not yours. You'll still be making money hand over fist by running off your mouth while the little guy will be trying to figure out how to pay his bills and feed his family.

Asshole.

People also need to stop making out Bush to be a foppish simpleton. If that were the case, I truly doubt that this 8 year crime wave would have been as maliciously successful as it has been.

"Elitist"? This can't be a serious question in THAT country, can it??? Contrary to my backwater homeland, you've got to be a millionaire - AT LEAST! Billionaire is much better! - to become a nationally important politician in America! So being a) a millionaire and being b)elitist are somehow supposed to be mutually exclusive??? I thought that a) necessarily triggered b)!
My tiny European brain can't absorb the absurdity of this public argument!

I know that it might sound like a fairy tale to you, but where I live, politicians typically AREN'T millionaires. Forget billionaires. They aren't even lawyers, as a rule!!

"Elitist" in America stands for people who are using their brain.

In other words: The American disenfranchised underclass, the ones one is trying to lure with these slogans, is obviously vast. HUGE. One wouldn't play that theme every four years if one didn't know how enormous the uneducated underclass is. The majority, actually. So vast that all of these claims about what an incredibly wealthy place America is, are of course an illusion. There are very many rich people there, but there are far more poor people in America than statistics tell us. American party strategies definitely show me that they know very well how many disadvantaged people there are in America. How poor and deprived major parts of America really are.

It doesn't do any good when a country stubbornly refuses to face its sordid facts:

Only the abysmal lack of education and information of the majority of Americans prevents them from getting fed up and angry. Just show them tons of outrageous footage about Darfur, or "Survivor", if they don't watch any news, and they still believe that they have a good deal. They are after all oblivious of the outside world. Just don't show them any footage about Western Europe or Japan on popular shows or on the news. As long as they have no clue, they will remain compliant.

Like the North Koreans, to quote the only parallel I can think of..

Because: If they knew, they might revolt.

In the meantime, to keep preventing the system from collapsing, the American rich are supposed to pretend that they are at heart like the poor and have to make people believe that they understand the poor so the poor will always vote for the rich who will in turn perpetuate the reign of the rich in America.

As in: "You have to be rich in order to become a powerful politician but once you have arrived, you have to pretend that you are thinking and living like the poor in order to make the poor vote for you."

A system can't get any more hypocritical and disgusting than America's is right now. This is the apex of cynicism and at the same time a willful exploitation of the lousy state of education and information of the majority of its population. No, I am not exaggerating. If you happen to disagree, you are just kidding yourself or haven't travelled your country for a long while.

The American system, for all its 1776 folklore, is today extremely elitist, much more than the present European system is! If people's forefathers had held out long enough, like for a hundred years, since most left Europe in the latter part of the 19th century, they might have ended up in a much more egalitarian society than what Americans today ended up with. America is ruled by the rich and is only there to cater for the rich, and there isn't even the pretense that this isn't so - exactly the way Europe used to be when most American's forefathers/mothers emigrated!

It's not like Europe isn't ruled by the rich indirectly, any capitalist society eventually is. But in Europe, at least they are not members of an administration. They still have to try to influence governments and parliaments somehow and indirectly, which doesn't always work their way. And millionaires as politicians are as a rule suspect. (Except in Italy...)

One doesn't measure politicians' popularity by counting the donations they are receiving. As a rule, election campaigns are mostly financed out of the country's public budget. EXACTLY in order to avoid the impression that one can "buy" elections if only one has the necessary financial clout. And there is a limit as to the air time one can buy. This is true for most places in Europe, by the way.

It all looks like France before the French Revolution 1789. Except that French aristocrats pre-1789 didn't have to pretend that they didn't know what a good life looks like. American politicians OTOH, mostly per definition rich guys, have to pretend that they all are basically hamburger-devouring good ole boys who live in a simple cabin in the woods, with a single light-bulb dangling over their heads while they are praying to Jesus for guidance several times a day. Or dedicated hockey moms. While they all are actually devoured by the urge to have power.

If I were a cynical politician, I couldn't wish for a more obliging and gullible public audience than Americans.

Good yuks. Republican propaganda is thin stuff, but people seem to fall for it anyway. We're stoopid peepul.

However, Maher may have less of a point here. Obama's hiring of "experts" from the Chicago School of Economics, a criminal gang of savage free marketeers, is the very pinnacle of elitism.

Ironically, one of Obama's economic advisors is an apologist for Wal-Mart's low wages. He thinks that's good stuff.

Even though Wal-Mart's owners are among the top richest Americans, they make their workers apply for Medicaid rather that pay for an affordable health insurance plan for their employees. And it's Wal-Mart's employees who made the Waltons rich in the first place.

I guess that's classism, rather than elitism - but that's kind of splitting hairs.

The Republican "elitism" propaganda charge works to some degree because it is partially true. The definition of propaganda is that you present a half truth. Obama's campaign is funded by wealthy corporations like investment company Goldman Sachs. There is nothing that's truly populist about Obama.

That said, the Republican Party is the plutocrat party. They are the ultimate elites - rich people who have pulled up the ladder with them.

Stoopid Amerikans think Republicans are against "big government," even when they've proved themselves to be the biggest deficit spenders of all time. Lots of Americans just can't see through the contradiction, it seems.

-TIA

We don't trust them uppity, elitist people that read them books, and especially those that read'm at them "special" east coast snob schools. We don't trust them people that give thoughtful answers, as a matter of fact, we don't trust thought. The BIBLE does the thinking.

That we think that bible college is OK is proof that we ain't again no educatin.

[_________R E A L I T Y _ I S _ O N L Y _ O N E __________]

[________ O F _ T H E _ M A N Y _ P O S S I B L E ________]

[__________ I _ L _ L _ U _ S _ I _ O _ N _ S ______________]

George Wanker Bush is not an illusion and neither are McCain/Palin. They are Violent Death, usually at an early age and for no reason at all. They make reality appear so absurd there's no way you can think it's an illusion, even if it really is.

well attack obama all you want

he switched his stances on almost all of the major points since he beat clinton.

good thing i voted green.

As long as the corporate media connives with the Repugs to, paraphrasing George Lakoff, frame the debate with control of the words, the Democrats and everyone else will always be at a disadvantage. The latest incarnation of this is the party of the WASP corporate elite smearing their main opponent, Obama (a self-made man from a disadvantaged background who got ahead because he was smart and worked hard), with a tag that would not be out of place should he apply that to them. That this is being done by the proxies in service to the true elite of America, corporate big wigs, is pathetically ironic. The Repugs have also managed to tap into America's cultural hostility / jealousy to intelligence (Mike Judge's movie "Idiocracy" nailed it as well), where elitist is one of the more polite catchwords. This attack strategy is predicated on the belief that enough of the electorate are intellectually lazy and not willing to do their homework, which would reveal the Repugs lies in less time than it takes to go through a fast food drive-through.
"Probitas laudatur et alget" Juvenal

Thanks for the laughs Bill. I'm a mixed race American who was raised in Alaska. Obama is a blessing, because us mixed race folk have always had to 'speak properly, dress appropriately, and don't sound too black.' At least he is able to see what is reflected by the white society and throw it back in their face (and half his).

He is not elitest. He is doing what he needs to do to deal with all this political bullsh*t that keeps drowning our country every election. The only thing the Republicans know how to do is create conflict where there is none.

As far as Ms. Palin goes, she's a travesty to the women in Alaska. We are hardworking, survivalists; she steals, lies and is the spokesperson for all the corruption in Alaska due to the oil companies. And probably some other companies thrown in just for kicks. Btw, Wasilla is the crystal meth capital of Alaska. That should clue you in on something.

Law Student

McCain's wife is worth $200,000,000.00

Isn't that elitist? Gulfstreams et al?

Conservatives/Liberals the terms are outmoded. Governors are less interested in the governed than they are about Re-election. Would *"Native Criminal Class", be a better Descriptor? *Gore Vidal

Thanks Bill for your continuing "Rub",
I'm richer for the discussion and I want you to keep heckling us poor "joes", until we get mad enough to do something about it.
You are a blessing to read and if the citizens that want to frame your discourse in their own terms are barking at you then I'm very well pleased at your wit and your verbosity.
hman

Boy, what a efffing moron is Maher: "Barack Obama can't help it if he's a magna cum laude Harvard grad and you're a Wal-Mart shopper who resurfaces driveways with your brother-in-law."

The trouble here is that the hard-hats who resurface driveways cannot help it EITHER, they probably never had the opportunities Obama had. Rubbing their noses in it is a REAL smart way to get them to vote for you...

Vote independent if you can - Mass. - Vt. - N.Y. ect. Vote your conscience if you must.

80% of Americans believe our country is going in the wrong direction.

Both candidates have surrounded themselves with advisers that created the 80%

Talk about a nonsensical article by a Democratic Party hack, it is unfortunate that just about all the articles on Common Dreams frame the so-called elections as a Republican vs. Democrat duel - when in fact it is nothing more than a competition between two equally repugnant faces, both of whom have promised to kill more once they take office - both are more of the same.

The issue here is not who is elitist or who is not --- they are both serving the elites - or the ruling imperialist class, both frame their favoring imperial wars as something about the "security" of the "american people" - and both will not invest in the people of American, and will instead invest heavily in wars, and give breaks to mega corporations. They only have small differences in rhetoric.

But what this article does try and do is to cast a blanket on any discussion about class, especially classism within racial "minorities" - in fact, it gives the distinct impression of favoring that narrative that assumes that someone who has "made it" as part of the US ruling class (Harvard etc.) is somehow "better" than your run of the mill Wal Mart shopper. Most of those who shop at Wal Mart do so because the economy is so screwed up, and the goods are way cheaper at Wal Mart --- i.e. they are making an intelligent choice based on their circumstance. There are only a small minority of white yuppie types who have the resources to shop at small botique type stores, and pay three or four times for the same item.

The Wal Mart in my area has a way higher % of latino,asian,black shoppers than little indy stores that primarily now cater to whites --- that does not mean those shoppers are stupid, it means they are responding as they should to economics. The shoppers are not the issue, the economy that favors wal mart is, and Obama/McCain offer nothing in the way that would change those dynamics.

http://almusawwir.org/resistance/

when obama included people sceptical about "free" trade agreements along with biblers and gun toters in his SF speech, i began to see him as an elitist. and that comment about guys resurfacing driveways with their brothers-in-law...oh, sure...that's all we need to hear

"Watch television, watch all those...officials who...stand
up and talk about bringing peace to the world and they talk
about curing inflation and they talk about new energy programs
that we're going to have. And they're well-dressed in suits
and ties, and they don't appear scared behind the microphone.

I wonder if there's one of you, I'm serious, I wonder if there's
one of you in this room who really sees that that man and that
woman are talking in their sleep. They don't know anything.

The last thing they know is how to cure inflation, because that's
a spiritual problem. The last thing they know is how to save
energy - that's a spiritual problem. The last thing they know is
how to make other people happy - that's a spiritual problem.
Therefore, they are lying, they're deceiving you because they've
first deceived themselves. Is there one of you here who sees
deeply into that, who understands it? I'll guarantee you the
first time you see it you will collapse in horror at what is
going on on this earth.

If you don't see it, you're still a part of it."

Teachings DVD 36, Talk # 1

No, just like all the rest, Obama is 'talking in his sleep,' spiritual sleep.

It is difficult to take seriously some Cat who earns his living off the corporate media gravy train inside the holliwood beltway. The fact is Obama, McCain and the pack of sheep that follow either candidate and the elitist holliwood, corporate owned cheerleaders that support them have nothing in common with us. Dumbo ought to get a real life with the rest of the peasantry living off of diminishing pay scales thanks to the status quo THEY ALL REPRESENT. This Cat makes a pretty good living commenting on our suffering while driving around in his SUV and hobnobbing with the rest of the elites he speaks for. Moreover, he ought to be posting his jaundiced views in the corporate owned section and not here. Since I dont own a TV, I dont have to tune in to his corporate tripe.

There is nothing wrong with a guy working paving wal-marts parking lot (walmart itself being an evil opportunist empire aside).. I believe, like the more indigenous SA perspective.. it isn't how good your job is, but how well you do your job...

BUT..this is not the person I want sitting at the table brokering international peace agreements. granted with a political interpreter to let him know what is accurate and what something really means... it might be more effective than having politicians do it... but this guy is not inherently ready or have the critical thinking skills to be quick on his feet in the international arena.

DAMN STRAIGHT yes i DO want an elitist on the front line. and hopefully that elitist will raise the bar/ standard for americans as a whole to aspire toward. the W bart simpson model hasn't fared very well for this country.

Every teacher knows that when there are gifted students in the classroom - it raises the performance of all the other students...

Obama's response should be-- Yes I am capable and have worked hard to succeed.. and I want to bring that possibility to each and every American!

Democrats and the Obama party need to stop driveling and grovelling over republican digs and jabs and swipes.. and make those their strongest political assets! have some pride/backbone already!