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Clinton Faces Pakistani Anger At Predator Drone Attacks
ISLAMABAD - U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton came face-to-face Friday with Pakistani anger over U.S. aerial drone attacks in tribal areas along the Afghan border, a strategy that U.S. officials say has succeeded in killing key terrorist leaders.
Students protest against the visit of U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, in Lahore, Pakistan, Thursday, Oct. 29, 2009. Clinton is on a three-day state visit to Pakistan. (AP Photo/K.M. Chaudary) In a series of public appearances on the final day of a three-day visit marked by blunt talk, Clinton refused to discuss the subject, which involves highly classified CIA operations. She would say only that "there is a war going on," and the Obama administration is committed to helping Pakistan defeat the insurgents and terrorists who threaten the stability of a nuclear-armed nation.
Clinton said she could not comment on "any particular tactic or technology" used in the war against extremist groups in the area.
The use of Predator drone aircraft, armed with guided missiles, is credited by U.S. officials with eliminating a growing number of senior terrorist group leaders this year who had used the tribal lands of Pakistan as a haven beyond the reach of U.S. ground forces in Afghanistan.
During an interview broadcast live in Pakistan with several prominent female TV anchors, before a predominantly female audience of several hundred, one member of the audience said the Predator attacks amount to "executions without trial" for those killed.
Another asked Clinton how she would define terrorism.
"Is it the killing of people in drone attacks?" she asked. That woman then asked if Clinton considers drone attacks and bombings like the one that killed more than 100 civilians in the city of Peshawar earlier this week to both be acts of terrorism.
"No, I do not," Clinton replied.
- Posted in
139 Comments so far
Show Allkilling innocent civilians with drones and bombs is just as DEADLY as killing them with suicide bombers. we can not say that what others do is terrorism but not what we do.
You are correct, but poltically incorrect--going clear back to the days of Henry Da Kissinger who as much as said so.
Poet
Let me see if I understand this.
It IS terrorism when Arabs fly planes into buildings killing Americans.
It ISN'T terrorism when Americans launch bombs remotely into cars, towns, huts and weddings killing Pakistanis.
When Hillary looks herself in the mirror she must hate herself more every day.
Cygnus sez: "When Hillary looks herself in the mirror she must hate herself more every day."
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That would require a moral conscinece which to date has not been in evidence in Hillary. Those Pakistani female journalists sure sound a lot better than the likes of Katie Couric, Diane Sawyer, Kelly O'Donnel, and Baba Wawa.
Poet
Well thats because you are not supposed to actually listen to Katie and Diane and the hot blondes on FOX. As a red blooded American your job is to fantasise having sex with them.
Correct Cygnus. Now if we flew the Drones themselves into buildings then that would be terrorism, dropping bombs/missiles from them on buildings is not. This is because the wings on the bombs/missiles are much smaller than the wings on airplanes are.
Don't try following the logic, it is the reasoning of the ruling class and is beyond the powers of our tiny minds to comprehend.
"When Hillary looks herself in the mirror she must hate herself more every day."
I hardly think that's the case, My Friend. I think all she sees is a "powerful woman" a'la Condi. The people in government have nothing close to resembling a Soul or conscience. Their's is a game of "elite chess" where humans are the pawns.
DK2012 sez: "I think all she sees is a "powerful woman" a'la Condi."
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Ooo, I like that! Obama = Beige Bush, Hillary = Pink Condi.
Poet
"When Hillary looks herself in the mirror she must hate herself more every day."
No way, Cygnus. When Hillary looks into the mirror, there is no reflection.
Change we can beleive in
These students' pimples are more intelligent, attractive and pleasant than Hellary
"We have found the terrorists, and they are us"
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
Hillary . . . following the lead of her hubby's Sec of State . . . "it was worth it."
Disgusting.
This is the sickest, saddest thing I have ever read. What has happened to this country?
Nothing, its just business as usual.
Poor Hillary. Poor Barack. Poor George. Poor power-lusting-losers everywhere.
It must be so difficult to have to listen to the rest of us fools when we are obviously trapped within a mindset that sees beyond the parochial. Why do we keep questioning their Brilliance when it is such an effective way to hoard money? Why can't we see that accumulating money is proof that we are superior?
Of course, she can't see anything wrong in drone attacks - that would require thinking she has something in common with innocent victims.
Nobody should be surprised by Hillary Clinton's statements. She has completely bought into the corporate military imperative for our country.
She looks more like Margaret Thatcher every day.
A hundred of you little brown people aren't worth one of us.
What's with the linguistic side-tracking? Isn't it bad enough that innocent people are being killed, without arguing what to call it?
Yes it is bad enough and since War=Terrorism, Drones are cowardly terrorism.
I'm sorry - I must have missed the part about the US Congress legally and constitutionally declaring war on Afghanistan, Somalia, Pakistan, etc. And by the way - hasn't our executively-declared mandate in Iraq legally run past its course?
Despite what Hillary says, our actions do translate into terrorism - both legally and morally. Anyone besides me remember the article a few months ago outlining the military's guidelines for civilian casualties as a collateral damage issue as related to drone attacks? Wasn't the acceptable figure of 50 civilians dead for 1 terrorist accepted by the US command structure? And if it went beyond 50 dead civilians, then the battlefield commander had to seek higher authority before launching the attack? And what about our broadly used tactic of simply 'buying off' the relatives of the dead with blood money payments when we admit, however belatedly, that our government did in fact kill innocent civilians?
Should the CEO's of banks in this country be considered terrorists for the unrivaled pain and suffering they have levied upon the American (and world's) people? Should the giant corporations who lie and bribe to shield their activities that have adverse affects on the public health be considered terrorists? Should those in government during hurricane Katrina be viewed as terrorists for purposely - yes - I said purposely - letting the population of that devastated city slowly perish because certain corporate interests were more concerned about privatizing the misery than helping human beings?
Hillary could not honestly answer the journalists' questions because if she did - she would have to indict the entire American foreign policy system for the last 50 years.
And meanwhile - here at home - congress wants to identify as terrorists those who fight for environmental justice, etc.
Corporations are the terrorists - universal in their greed and depravity - and in large measure that is what those who oppose us are fighting against. The advance of American culture may seem a worthy goal for those on the Right, especially those heavily invested in the Religious Right and the corporations who will undoubtedly profit from such advancement, but to many around the world the promotion and advancement of "American values" simply reeks of domination, arrogance and the loss of personal and national sovereignty.
Sioux Rose
ODOCO: I'd certainly go along with the more apt definions (as per your examples) of who the terrorist is. I would also add all those residing in poor countries that thanks to the Wall St fiscal shenanigans, are going to see their subsistence on $1 or less a day buy less food for their already near-starving (or actually starving) family members. The third world is being put to the kill as sacrificial lambs so the gods of Wall St can continue to play the pool of laborers' toils against their own insidious visions of personally unlimited wealth. This is King Midas meets Charles Manson in an expensive business suit, multiplied by a small army of like-minded morally repugnant clones. Once "we" revise the definition of terrorist, by all means let us adjust that which now constitutes "sanity."
If you're not an anarchist...quit whining. YOU are part of the problem.
And Your family and neighbors are with you I suppose...
Most modern anarchists I run into just use that label to refuse any responsibility for the problem.
Provoke and run like hell.
Too true....
Yuppie anarchists may be more apropos. Every couple of years, they dust off the black balaclava and head into town for some peaceful mischief against the World Bank or other demonstration du jour.
Now if these people actually believed in the cause, and mobilized daily, then they may have a movement.
Wannabes, all.
You've hit it on the head, Jim. And, I'll take it one step further.
Too often, such language is used to divert attention from, and discourage, constructive political actions such as voting, organizing, educating, expressing opinions to media outlets, and even the simplest and most effective of all: telephoning your elected representatives' offices and expressing your opinions on specific issues and legislation. These people yell "burn it all down and start over" and assure us that every other action is useless, so don't bother.
If Republicans were operating a stealth campaign to undercut the power of liberal voters (who are the majority in this country), certainly promulgating anarchist opinions and attitudes among leftists would be a powerful tool in that effort.
The word anarchist is at least as misunderstood as the word atheist.
"The arguments against a standing army are many and weighty and deserve to prevail, but those same arguments could be applied with equal force against a standing government"---Thoreau
What has the government done for us except turn us into accomplices to the most heinous crimes imaginable? I mean besides steal our money and work us to death while telling us we live in the greatest country in the world.
Democracy in this country is a joke. Patriotism for this country is misplaced and is therefore rank nationalism.
Anarchy does not mean mob rule. It means, for starters, that all officials are elected for one term only via public funding. Contributions by individuals, corporations, interest groups are crimes called bribery.
"The word anarchist is at least as misunderstood as the word atheist."
I would add Socialist/Socialism to your list.
Excellent post, Nietzsche.
Here is a quote from Chomsky that speaks to what you are saying:
"Anarchy as a social philosophy has never meant “chaos”. In fact, anarchists have typically believed in a highly organized society, just one that is organized democratically from below."
Reverse the situation.
How would you react if a foreign country had eyes in the sky watching EVERYTHING you do!
You would be self conscious! You would modify your behavior so you would not appear suspicious to the drones.
The whole country living in fear of being mistook for a combatant just because so many innocent have been blown away!
That's terrorism!
Yes, and to me it is the worst kind.
Hillary continues to prove she is nothing more than an empty pant suit. After all, during the campiagn she asserted that she would wipe Iran off the map with a nuclear attack.
We can only hope she is assigned a particular dark, dank cell, faced to endure the types of horrors she endorses for the innocent in the next world.
Future terrorists are the enemy is this DAFT war. Read the law that says so, Public Law 107-40.
But who are future terrorists?
Someone accused of planning terrorism against the US would be one (- key terrorist leaders -).
Drone attacks eliminate the future terrorist before he can commit whatever terrorism he would have committed if he had lived. Others get killed, children and women, and they won't become future terrorists, either.
Q: How do you identify a future terrorist?
A: Posthumously.
As long as America remains in this DAFT war, this stuff will be the norm, not the exception.
I am reminded of one of Voltaire's quotes:
"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."
And, man, is this government so wrong, so often, about almost everything.
It's a LOT bigger than the government. Many private contractors have BIG BIG BIG stakes in this region. I would venture so far as to say that Clinton and the like aren't even government officials. More like de facto sales reps for Halliburton, Blackwater, and the DoD.
Sioux Rose
ANDY: That's about what it comes down to when the ONE "industry" our nation can rely upon is based upon "War as product." The US military and those in support of its reign of terror, are the greatest threats to global peace and sustainability. I was talking to a lawyer friend today who I used to think was brilliant, and this dummy said "Obama is the hope of the world." I began to fire off the list of NON-accomplishments and he came back with the bonafides, that Obama had gotten the Nobel Peace prize. That made me realize what an advertising gimmick this "honor" was gambled into. When I challenged those who made this determination, mr. lawyer man came back with maybe the Nobel Committee knew things I did not.
VERY scary when would-be progressive/liberal thinkers fall for the ideological and theatrical traps that are being set to make them think there is still honor or decency in the high circles of US power. It all serves the dark side now with rare exceptions. I think our country has begun to pay for this. I am seeing so much sadness, heartbreak, depression in people I know. Everyone has been taught that success is based on personal efforts, so if they're confronting a job/health/fiscal or other disorder or challenge beyond their own means to alter, they deal with the double whammy of feeling like failures. A woman friend of mine, a lawyer, and I spoke till 1 AM last night and she said she just wants to "go home," meaning to what most would term death. She has a religious side and believes home is where God dwells, and she's just overwhelmed with all the things that can't be fixed, and how exhausted she feels trying. I believe in an after-life, but it made me feel very sad that this beautiful being is ready to get beamed up. She's barely 50. The net LOSS of hope, except in the willfully or unconsciously delusional is one deficit unlikely to appear on any balance sheet. But its cost in the way of lost Light, power, beauty, and initiative is perhaps beyond what can be measured. What a price our nation (and the world) is paying for its homage to the god of war... even language has been twisted to lend support to what is unconscionable.
what a pig.
Her husband's Secretary of State thought that killing half a million Iraqi children was "worth it".
Sioux Rose
SAINT-JUST: I hadn't read your comment when I posted a similar analogy. How do these "people" live with themselves? It's as if their consciences were surgically removed, although it's believed sociopaths/psychopaths do not come "equipped" with such an impediment to their rapacious lust for violence.
The drones are just terrorism on a bigger budget. If in the future, some foreign government has the budget for drones to attack American soil I guess Hillary will say that was not terrorism either! The American sheeple need to wake up and realize America is the #1 terrorist in the world! How come you hear over and over and over again that we cannot afford health care for all because of our deficit but not ever even a peep about the enormous deficits we are running because of America's terrorism of illegal and egregious wars. We have plenty of $ for war for all! Yep, #1 terrorist country in the world...I rest my case.
"How come you hear over and over and over again that we cannot afford health care for all because of our deficit but not ever even a peep about the enormous deficits we are running because of America's terrorism of illegal and egregious wars."
Brilliantly said Paul Revere.
These drones, such cowardice and deadly tools, (toys to some) operated from afar by people totally devoid of humanity. Tools that are killing and maiming innocent men, woman and children in this pernicious quest of Middle East hegemony. Sigh!
And the "billions" being spent fighting just three months of these illegal and horrid wars, it is enough to provide a years worth of health coverage for each and every Amerikan.
But I digress
"How come you hear over and over and over again that we cannot afford health care for all because of our deficit but not ever even a peep about the enormous deficits we are running because of America's terrorism of illegal and egregious wars."
The problem isn't simply the wars. The problem is militarism in general. The problem is the acceptance of militarism in general. The problem is that the US spends close to half of global military spending.
Killing Is My Business... and Business Is Good! megadeath
As a metal head . . . awesome reference!
It will be a great day for global freedom when Hebrew Hillary is surrounded by predator drones and with no place to hide.
I hate to see anti-semitism rear its troglodytic head among these otherwise enlightened commentaries. Jews are to blame...and behind every conspiracy-- riiiight. Not that I'm any friend of Israel. But to extend that rightful criticism to blaming "Hebrew" influence for every wrong of our government,our financial system, our military policy, etc... Forget it.
Did she go there to win hearts and minds and sell the American effort to rid the world of terrorism?
How she would accomplish that is beyond me. She would have to convince the people who are the victims of the drone attacks to buy into the idea that it is for their own good.
On the other hand for a fraction of the cost of a drone attack she could open up a school in Afghanistan or the tribal areas in Pakistan and really win over hearts and minds. But that is too simple, too mundane and not as dramatic as dispatching a whole bunch of ragheads to their demise.
Sioux Rose
GECKO/KARLOF: Excellent points & observations.
Many Pakistan TV stations were carrying Clinton's speech at the time the Peshawar bombs exploded and went to split screen presentation with Clinton on one side droning on with her English-language speech and the Peshawar carnage on the other half. The Market was specifically targeted because it's frequented by women who bring their children along. I thought the actions by the TV stations were meant to send a non-verbal message to Pakistanis--Look at what this woman has done to our country, as it's US policy that's destabilizing Pakistan, not the Taliban: US terrorism is replied to in-kind. It's clear to me that US policy has created a Civil War in Pakistan and escalated the 30+ years-old Afghan Civil War. And this Civil War has the potential to kill many more than the 3-5 Million Southeast Asians killed by the USA, as events in this War have already spilled into India. For the carnage to be avoided, the USA MUST leave the region ASAP as its presence is the catalyst.
Drone attacks are terrorism.
The drone attack has been a favorite Israeli strategy for many years but more importantly so has the concept of "extrajudicial killing" regardless of the collateral damage (women and children and innocent adult males, gulp)