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TechnoratiGroup: Settlement Info Implicates Israeli Gov't
JERUSALEM - An Israeli rights group plans to use a database detailing the complicity of Israel's government in widespread illegal construction in West Bank settlements to help Palestinians file lawsuits over their lost land, the group said Friday.
The classified database, compiled by Israel's Defense Ministry and leaked to the Yesh Din group, shows that government agencies and private companies building settlements in the West Bank widely ignored Israeli law, in many cases seizing land that belongs to Palestinians. It also demonstrates that the government has long been aware of the lawbreaking and has kept it secret.
The Defense Ministry would not comment on the report.
The internationally backed "road map" peace plan, the basis for Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, calls on Israel to halt all settlement activity. The settlements render the Palestinian goal of establishing a state that includes the West Bank all but impossible, and Israel will have to evacuate all or many of them as part of any peace agreement.
More than 30 settlements were built in part on land owned by Palestinians, the report shows, and in three out of every four settlements some construction was conducted without proper permits.
In one settlement, Elon Moreh, the report says, 18 houses were built on private land. In another, Efrat, a park and a synagogue were built on private land, and in a third, Ariel, a college was built without legal approval. In other settlements, roads, cell phone antennas, basketball courts and neighborhoods were built illegally.
The report focuses on the some 120 West Bank settlements officially authorized by the government since Israel captured the territory in the 1967 Mideast war. In addition, settlers have thrown up some 100 unauthorized settlement outposts, which violate Israeli law but were typically built with the tacit approval or active cooperation of the government.
Michael Sfard, Yesh Din's legal counsel, called the information a "severe indictment" of Israel's military and government. Israeli authorities are "systematically violating international law and the property rights of Palestinian residents," Sfard said in a statement.
The group said it intends to use "all legal means" to challenge the violations listed in the leaked database, including filing civil suits and appealing to Israel's Supreme Court. Yesh Din will begin running ads in Palestinian newspapers to encourage people to take legal action, and will also offer legal counsel, the statement from the group said.
80 Comments so far
Show AllThe world is now seeing what noble and fierce warriors these out gunned out financed these Palestinians peoples are.
However the cowardly Arab world slinks away while their brothers fight on alone
If Arabs were stealing any European countries lands dispossessing and murdering its children do you think Europe would stand idly by and let it happen ?
They would not !!!!! and they should not!!!!
But the Arabs do!!!
Israel draws immigrants and guest workers from around the world. Most are happy to settle in and become productive members of society. So long as being a productive member of society is an insult to Arab honor, Arabs ought to move out of the way and make room for those who want an opportunity to better their lives. There are plenty of scratch-ass-sniff-finger countries for them to live in.
After seeing Jewish thievery 'Galore' on Wall Street ($1 trillion dollars+) plus what the Jewish bankers 'raped' from the US taxpayer and investors recently ($300,000,000.) and the crimes against humanity it commits on a daily bases in Palestine, previously in Lebanon and sometimes in Syria and the 'covert' murder (along with the Great Satan) of Iraqi scientists, nuclear technicians and intellectuals in Iraq - after seeing the Jewish thievery of millions of dollars in priceless Iraqi antiquities stolen out of Iraqi museums during AmeriKKKa's aggression against Iraq and then shipped to Israel by the shameless Jews where they lay hidden in bank vaults and collectors safe houses, I must say that If I was Jewish I would stay away of these Internet sites before 'someone' embarrasses me (if that's possible) enough to find me a new religion where the believers truly believe that their G-d 'truly' means it when he says: 'Thou shall not kill.'
TheAZCowBoy
Tombstone, AZ.
'Kill 'em all Hezbollah - the bastards just massacred over 400 babies and infants in Gaza and almost 200 mothers - many of them waving white 'surrender' flags which the murderous ZioNAZI IDF Jewish thugs chose to ignore.
Thank you USAn for the Google map link, I just spent about 2 hours in amazement.
I also agree with poster who claimed fundamental fanatics are responsible for too much hatred and division in our world.
I also wrote to 60min to thank them for the Bob Simon segment.
Israel is a rogue state, why else do they need an official hasbara office & why do they need "armies of bi-lingual bloggers" to endlessly repeat official zionist talking points? They want to continue their despicable occupation, land grabs and aggression while constantly demanding recognition from the Palestinians.
The Palestinians can never recognize Israel as an exclusively Jewish state. That would negate all of the indigenous peoples claims for justice. It would absolve the zionists of their many crimes, including targeted assassinations, imprisoning the elected Hamas representatives,ethnic cleansing & terror since before 1947, what property they ddn't steal they destroyed to make life a misery for the original occupants. They have legalized torture, claim they are a democracy but forbid Arab Israelis from running for office.
Israel has committed crimes against humanity and their days of impunity are over.
Judy Levy, unless you agree with the National Socialist Party of the 30's & 40's about euthanizing the disabled, elderly and ill and agree with exterminating or exiling the homosexuals, Roms, intellectuals, disidents and communists; you are a hypocrit. To support Israel is to endorse genocide. I pity you for being brainwashed, but with the info readily available, there is no excuse for your continued zionist support.
"Give me liberty or at least two shoes to hurl at Judy Levy and her zionist handlers" - Kate Bates
Homosexuals are hung or burned alive in Muslim Iran and imprisoned and tortured in Arab-nationalist Egypt. Israel recognizes gay marriages and includes gays in the armed forces. Tel Aviv is a destination for Palestinian gays, fleeing for their lives.
You're confused about which side took Mussolini-Hitler for its social and leadership model.
The Muslim-Arab beef with homosexuals is very close to their beef with the Jews: 1)violence against Jews and homosexuals is endorsed by their sacred books, by Allah itself, 2)Jews and homosexuals (and all of the other hard-to-control diversity) is what one finds the big sinful city, contact with which will make nice girls (girls especially) go wrong. Muslim Arab culture is still insular and village-oriented and all about control.
Only cruelty and avarice seem to reign in Israel.
Israeli politician Benjamin Netanyahu, who has expressed serious discontent with the army's failure in Gaza, says he would not evacuate Israeli outposts in the West Bank should he win the general elections.
This terrorist nation has whipped itself into such a bloodsoaked killing frensy that I think anyone could bomb them out of existance and all they would do is blame 'Hamas' and murder more Palestinean women and children. Will Benjamine really bring about "Mission Accomplished" in destroying America along with Israel?
Bibi Natanyahu, the ex-used furniture saleman and recent bribe taker Likudnik is saying 'what will get him elected.' The last time this hoodlum was at the helm as PM of Israel, the Settler population on the West Bank and Gaza doubled+ and he abrogated the Oslo I & II commitments Israel (he) had signed. At the Wye Plantation meetings with Bill Clinton he came in making demands that the Jewish rat traitor spy Jon Pollard be released 'NOW!' Clinton took him behind the wood shed and kicked his arse black and blue and he left Wye with no concessions from Clinton on the West Bank/Gaza settement 'natural growth' expansions and no Jon Pollard to show for the bruises on his pale white Jewish ass!
Today he knows that Obama will not deal with him so he is attempting to surround himself with people like 'thunder thighs; Tipsi Livni who BTW is from the IRGUN terrorist blood line. So anyway you look at it Israel will elect war criminals (always has) and continue to be the 'pariah' of the Middle East who keeps on killing and stealing Palestinian land and aquifer resources.
Israel would be better off to 'pull up stakes' and move to Florida and make George W. Bush their king. Let's see how long the American people will put up with these 'arrogant incorrigibles' before we have a holocaust II in the US.
TheAZCowBoy
Tombstone, AZ.
Israel won't even let the French bring in the desperately-needed water purification system into Gaza. There is such a lack of clean water in Gaza, that the Palestinians can't even clean off the feces that the Israeli troops smeared all over what little is left of the Palestinian's homes and belongings. You can read about it here,:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/usTopNews/idUKTRE50T42N20090130
http://www.imemc.org/article/58712
Then try a google search to see which U.S. media have covered this story. (Hint: almost none.)
That feces-smearing stuff is just the sort of thing US troops do.
Why are these Zionist thugs so much like the typical white suburban/small-town USAn bubbas? Maybe the genuine Jewish home should be Texas or Oklahoma.
---USAn---
Moving the Jews to Texas and the Arabs to Israel is a long-haul two-step process. Much cheaper and more efficent to move the Paletinians to Sudan or Iraq or Somalia---places where a bellicose more-white Sunni Arab population might be useful.
Hey Momma...
The Palestinians aren't going anywhere anytime soon. As for the Jews, they are going somewhere sooner than you think as things are working out - maybe 'sooner than later, what do you think?!'
1. To the US where they can live for free while 'sticking it to the goyim,' as the Talmud tells them to.
2. (Or) floating high up in the Middle Eastern skies as radioactive kosher confetti that circles the planet every 7 dayze so we can give them the stiff middle finger as they pass overhead and wonder why we didn't slip the Iranians a couple of nukes long time ago even at th erisk of being called anti-semites - Oh, well, LOL!
Hell, this would save America billions and also save American soldiers lives and give even greater gains to the downtrodden Palestinians - God bless them, they certainly deserve it!
TheAZCowBoy
Tombstone, AZ.
Levy, Hit-Get The Facts Wrong-and Run, Good morning.
The 'U.N.' had Zero right to "Partition Palestine in 1948," any more than Menachim Begin had the right to throw Babies down wells at that time.
Yesh Din is righteous. But the shrill, lying, Racist Levy's far outnumber them.
And 'rocket attacks?' I saw another thread dominated by that question. Wrong.
Palestinians are being tortured to death en masse, thus the Levy's want the discussion centered on what feeble resistance they can muster. NOT, NEVER, The Occupation. The Nhakba. The Catastrophie. Not the Baby's Bodies Burning. (7 more maimed by the IAF Thur. Not the Colonization, Genocide by Government.
Israel is like a Rapist that Snarls and halfway through the Rape Strangles it's victim, saying, the B*#&% fought back, she deserved to die.
Ahh, The Sabbath. Time to Kill. azjoe.
So, the 1948 decision on the future of Palestine ought to have been made by a non-existent Arab electorate in a never-happened-yet free and fair election, in an all-Arab Palestinian state, without consulting the Jews. Is that about right?
.Their should be no discussions about subverting other human beings homes or place of existence period.
UNLESS YOU HAVE THE AROGANCE OF THE COLONIALISTS who got around it by declaring that all none Europeans were not humans their fore every thing goes .
They only stop short at farming them for food.
There were multiple fact-finding missions, notably by the Peel Commission. They spoke to everyone. What they found: the two largest population groups in Mandatory Palestine were too antipathetic to live together. What they proposed as the solution: partition. The Arab response: we, together with the rest of the Arab Nation outside of Palestine, outnumber and out-gun the Jews and don't have to concede anything to them. We're just going to kill them all.
It didn't work out that way. Injustice, boo-hoo.
To Earn its Own Recognition.
The Times on demanding that the Palestinians "recognize Israel" and its "right to exist." This is a common enough sentiment — even a cliche. Yet many observers (most recently the international lawyer John Whitbeck) have pointed out that this proposition, assiduously propagated by Israel's advocates and uncritically reiterated by American politicians and journalists, is — at best — utterly nonsensical.
First, the formal diplomatic language of "recognition" is traditionally used by one state with respect to another state. It is literally meaningless for a non-state to "recognize" a state. Moreover, in diplomacy, such recognition is supposed to be mutual. In order to earn its own recognition, Israel would have to simultaneously recognize the state of Palestine. This it steadfastly refuses to do!
The UN partitioned Palestine in 1948. The Arabs refused to recognize the arrangement. They repeated that refusal after the 1967 debacle at Khartoum. Sixty years on, the Saudi Peace Plan is a negotiating document, which will if successful, end with Arab recognition of Israel. End of story.
There are two "recognition" stories on the Arab, and both refer back to Mohammed. The first one is: is it permissable to sign treaties with Yahood? The answer is: "Yes" , so long as you are insincere and work to undermine any aspect that benefits the Yahood. The second one is: Would Mohammed tolerate the existence of live Yahood in the Lands of Islam, in the long term? Here, the answer is "No." Yahood may remian alive in the short term, but they must be pressured to leave or to convert to Islam. Punitive taxation, denial of property rights, denial of recourse to courts/law/police protection, abduction of Yahood orphans and their placement with Muslim families, identifying dress including yellow stars---the Nazis got the idea from the Muslims, outbreaks of antisemitic violence and riots---don't bother calling the police, destruction of synagogues with the accompanying Muslim prohibition on the construction of new synagogues, abduction and forced conversion of Jewish women,etc etc. How do you think that Arabia got to be "Jew-free"?
STOP THE BULL!!!!!! IT WAS NEVER JEW FREE
Israel tried a sixty-year experiment in living with Arabs. It didn't work out. Now it's time to do to the Palestinians, as the Arabs have done to the Jews, etc.
Judy,
Interesting that you post with a name that appears to be 'typically jewish'. But i actually question that fact. Who knows who the heck anyone here is. I wonder about half the posts i see on this subject. Maybe the same people use different names.
Quite frankly, i have been reading this site for the past eight years. I thought it was a bad idea to initiate the comment section. But it used to be stimulating and there were many intelligent and mature individuals who didn't get into the disrespectful back and forth, not to mention the innane hate speech filled with old cliche's and sounding like NRA advocates half the time (that is only a figure of speech, by the way).
Climate change has suddenly come to this site, which was a place for sane and respectful exchange and reflection. But i digress.
I doubt your name is at all connected to who you are. I think you are trying to breed animosity for whatever your reason. Hope you are enjoying it, Joe Smith, or whoever you may be.
"Fueling the Cycle of Hate"....That should be the title of the posts section here lately. History repeats itself, Gee, i wonder why? I don't see much hope based on many of the comments i've been reading here lately.
I am going to skip the posts when it comes to this issue. It is just plain demoralizing and isn't worth the focus. Not much in the way of constructiveness comes out. And we wonder why there is no peace in the world? It's sad to me, since i've been involved in end the occupation for quite a few years and have had articles published on progressive sites, including this one.
I just listened to Noam Chomsky and Norm Finkelstien. Heartfelt and informed outrage and pain. But not meanspirited and petty.
peaceout.
readytotransform, wait.....
These threads need you. I too have been a Common Dreamer for several years and have noted changes.
There are really only a core of a few hundred regular posters. Thus a dozen can effect the many in a concerted effort to pollute things.
Conversely, things can be elevated. I catch myself-instead of calling someone a liar, I try to say they are 'factually incorrect,' but we all emote.
To The Light Within Us All. azjoe.
readytotransform-I forbid you to desert us.
Azjoe, you are a beautiful soul. And i thank you from my heart.
It has been getting hard to read the posts on this topic, though. I mean it, seriously. Sometimes it seems like the KKK has been let loose here. Why is it that this particular issue brings out the hate mongers, i wonder? I mean, this didn't happen when we were posting about iraq war and occupation.
I have seen stuff here that is straight out of the wiemar republic. Literally. And you know where i am coming form. And i am the first to get really outraged about the way israel and zionists have abused the jewish holocaust for their own illicit purposes. It is obscene, and so is that country. But the discourse has become about jew bashing in many instances. And some have been Muslim bashing. But really, in my own life i have never been exposed to this much venom and racism. And it isn't anti israeli policy, it is anti jewish people.
It shows me how much of that sentiment is really out there. I think that many of these people are using israeli atrocities and occupation to justify what they feel about a particular religious group that existed much longer ago than israel as a state. It is pathological as israel itself. That is the sick irony. They mirror what they rant about. And it just isn't healthy. It is like watching something that is sadistic. I just don't want to expose myself to it when i don't have to and it doesn't go anywhere as far as moving human beings beyond repetitve patterns. Different stage set, same play.
But i will keep posting on other kinds of articles. Or i think that when i read an article on this subject, i will just post about the article itself, and not get into the rest. That is an idea!
Namaste. Rita
Namaste, Namaste-I've read your posts for a while, and although I do recall a hiatus... I don't recall a name, for instance Rita....quite my pleasure if I may.
Yes, The Palestine/Israel debacle's arguments are tired, and are a lightning rod for racism against Jews and Arabs. I've thought about this. If all things were the same, but Israel were not the Jewish State, but was, hypothetically, say the Mormon or Protestant State but Gaza was Gaza, every other single little thing were the same for 60 years, what effect would that have on people's generalized opinions about these hypothetical Protestants or Mormons?
I'm not sure. During WW2 when the Nazi's were ravaging Europe, anti-German sentiment ran high. When I am nice,people like me. When I'm not, they don't.
My point is our actions Cause, Create people's opinions. So if anti-Semitism is so endemic, why?
I've listened endlessly to Jews discuss being persecuted throughout history, why?
I've raised children, and I tell them, if everywhere you go you have trouble, the problem is not the different places you go, it is you. The one constant in the equation.
I want Israel to flourish. From my heart. I want every Jew on this planet to be happy and healthy. But not at others expense, much less their very lives.
Even though many beautiful Jews grace our world, my life, something systemic is terribly wrong. False.
I look forward to seeing you on these threads. To Kindness. azjoe.
Yes, Azjoe, i do believe that something is terribly wrong. It is true.
I have come to believe, quite some time ago, that being jewish is about 'otherness'. It is the parameters of the definition itself. And the interesting thing about this kind of self definition does mean exclusivity throughout the history. It is like a rejection of the other, as well as being rejected. And i do know that we will create our reality based upon our beliefs about ourselves and the world, and then we need to experience it.
I remember as a kid, i used to say, "i am a human being first and above any kind of label". So, i basically rejected it. I also remember realizing quite early, that jewish holidays seeed to be about survival. "They tried to wipe us out, but we survived". And there was no, if i may use a Jungian term, archetype of the innocent child in the tradition. No 'fairy tales' so to speak. No magic, which is what i yearned for...Anyway,
I think there is something very karmic playing out here. Now, the jewish journey, as it has been told, really has been about pogroms, etc., living within the 'christian' world. There is no getting around it. And it would seem quite obvious that when you have a grouping with its own set of laws, such as kosher food, it does mean that jews couldn't break bread with non jews. (i am going to get into a lot of stuff here, i can tell, but i also know you are very sincere.) So,
Of course, that shouldn't be an excuse for persecution; the fact that a group is different and really just keeping to themselves, etc. It would also seem obvious, humans being as they have been for the most part, that it would follow, of course, that they would be destructive towards such a group. That was also part of that separation consciouness. Yes. Because, people should treat each other as human beings, of course, first and foremost. But that was lost on the 'christian world' throughout its history, as we know. So, basically, they never 'got' their own message. But what else is new. :)
But the strange difference with anti jewish bigotry, i believe, has to do with (and actually i am stealing this from Mark Twain who wrote an essay on "The anti-semitic question"), is that despite it all, jewish people did fairly well anyway. Considering how few there have been, there is a high percentage of scholars and social justice activists and thinkers and scientists who have contributed to the world. Probably because education and intellectual persuits were primary values. No one can take that away from you, wherever you may need to travel. Anyway, Twain believed that there was a resentment toward jews over the years. And that is a different spin on the ball, regarding prejudice, i think.
And according the the 'church', since the jews didn't accept Jesus as their lord and saviour, they shouldn't have done alright. And i do think there is a lot to be said there as well. Because it would seem that these 'holdouts' should be punished in some way. And we know about the church and all of that kind of history...
Now, i feel that there is an abrasiveness (and this is really general)to many jewish personalities. I contribute this to many reasons. One of them, and i am going to be really straight forward here, is that in the world of christendom, so to speak, there had been a rather, in my opinion, a superficial kind of niceness, due to, again in my own opininion, quite a shallow and insulting interpretaion of Jesus and his message. The jews never had that kind of belief system. And as i said, the consciousness doesn't include the innocent child archetype. It was more intellectual and less heart centerd. Even if the heart centeredness was pretty much, only in theory, as far as i can tell. Yet i do believe it was the 'next step' in western evolution of humanity.
If you'll notice, israel isn't trying to say that they were doing anyone any favors in their brutality. On the other hand, the u.s. is usually trying to appear that they are doing everyone a big favor. Like the 'democratization' of the Iraqis. This is evangelism in another form. "We will toruture you for the good of your own soul". There is always a 'nice' front put on our international atrocities and hedgemony. And i think one of the reasons it is so hard to take is, as i've said, israel doesn't bother with this.
Anyway, i won't even get into my feelings about the post holocaust mindset, because that would take a few pages.
I truly hope this makes sense to you....
Warm regards. Me
readytotransform.....your post was subtle,it is hard to dissect this without sounding offensive. But that, right away, gets to it, the-'otherness,' the us vs them mindset, the we are persecuted....,well, I note that playing that card makes any criticism of anything, Palestine, undue influence in U.S. politics, anything, and the criticism is because you are not one of us, and therefore you are against us. Our experience shows us that so now we'll do anything to protect ourselves and our country.....from Otherness.
But it does this too-creates a blindness on Israel's and Jews parts about what is real ie if you blame all your troubles on people being racist, you never examine your own actions as they relate to others perceptions. Their perceptions are all about them, not you....hmmmmmm
A sad sad isolating that curses Jews and Gentiles too, because when so many great people choose not to share their beauty, be part the world, it is a loss for us all.
Hope you are most best and well, twice even. azjoe.
Azjoe,
Thank you for your well wishes. I totally agree with you.
But of course, 3,000 years ago was a whole different reality. It would seem like an alien planet if we were there now. But it is true--enough already!! It is just absurd at this point.
I have often said that without 'anti-semitism', there would be no judaism in modern times. It does define itself that way. Thus, irael state needs it for justification, and i honestly think that is part of their motivation.
The best to you Azjoe...I have a feeling that you may be of M.E. background.
rita
Azjoe,
one more thought. I would like to suggest that you read an article, "When Do We Stop Sitting Shiva For the Holocaust?" published in Electronic Intifada-November 7, 2007.
I'd be interested on your thoughts.
You are a poor excuse for a human being -- that is if you're even human.
They can feel sorry for themselves, wait for UNRWA to feed them, and perform honor killings in Sudan, as well as anywhere.
Pan
Great to see here,
you can fool some of the people some of the etc..... indeed Americans do think am well pleased .
I myself want fairness for Jews but not at the expense of others sufferings and loss of rights, as LAND FARMS WATER so some (HOGS) can use their religion to STEAL for some 2000 year old Deed to land and rights by a ??? their ?? Holy men.
I hope the American Indians don`t show up with a Shamans drawings and evict and imprison me where I live, BUT Naw they don`t have the money or media control and the Evangelicals would never help them . Theres no Rapture or end of the world stuff in it at collections time to build a mega church on.
Some very clever people in the media and yes I did not believe 60 minutes had commited suicide BUT! I saw it and whoa.. hell fire a leak in the damn.
Just tell it like it is.
Liberty and freedom for All
ALLLLLL
Israel is expanding into Iraq as part of the "Greater Israel". This crap has to stop.
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_4301.shtml
This is interesting, and obvious, if one connects the dots.
Notice too, how the shills are talking less of Palestinians as the problem, and now have all Arabs in their sights. Perhaps Palestine is just a warm-up for a Greater Israel.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
Our Government Is On The Wrong Side In The Mideast Conflict
"As determined by?"
"Self-interest."
"Which is?"
"First and foremost keeping us safe."
"Brought about by?"
"Supporting justice for the Palestinian people."
"How will that make us safe?"
"America's sponsorship of the settler-state Israel is the root cause of the violence in and beyond the Mideast."
"Anything else?"
"Having lost its only ally the Israelis will have no choice but to sit down with the Palestinians for the purpose of working things out."
"Based on?"
"One equal one."
"Anything else?"
"Liberty and justice for all."
Bill
No one has noted that the AP account begins with a false premise, that there are legal settlements and illegal settlements. All of the settlements in the West Bank, Jerusalem, and Gaza, military zones, land confiscations, water confiscations, Israeli-only roads, nature preserves, checkpoints, border closures, and attacks on the occupied territories populations are illegal, criminal, and many war crimes.
Bill
No one has noted that the AP account begins with a false premise, that there are legal settlements and illegal settlements. All of the settlements in the West Bank, Jerusalem, and Gaza, military zones, land confiscations, water confiscations, Israeli-only roads, nature preserves, checkpoints, border closures, and attacks on the occupied territories populations are illegal, criminal, and many war crimes.
What really, really gets to me with regard to the West Bank in Israel is that every single time the West Bank is shown on any map of any mainstream media newscast or newspaper, we are shown one whole area of land. We are NOT shown the actual reality of the multitude of Jewish settlements and outposts, military outposts and checkpoints, crisscrossing Israeli-only highways, or the great swaths of off-limit zones as is the case along the entire Jordan River. So what actually remains of the West Bank to the Palestinians are just South Africa-style Bantustans. SO the general public does NOT see the reality nor has a clue of what the West Bank (surrounded by the "security fence") actually means.
To try and even find an UPDATED map of the West Bank showing all the FRAGMENTATION is near impossible. Here's a detailed map from March 2007 that needs updating: http://unispal.un.org/unispal.nsf/9fb163c870bb1d6785256cef0073c89f/0fdeb2117237384e852572f30047059f!OpenDocument
Just check out my Google maps link in my 1:19 PM post below.
The fragmentation and stark inequality can be easily seen in the satellite photos. The Apartheid wall shows up well in most places as well...
The Bantustans were positively generous copmared to the useless neighborhood-sized fragments that Israel thinks can be called a "state".
In the past, it the Irish, then India, then Cuba, Vietnam, East Timor, but never have any people struggled so long and paid so dear price in their struggle for freedom as the Palestinians!
---USAn---
The usual Arabist complaint: Hamas is required under International Law to attack Israel. Israel is required under International Law to pretend that there is peace.
I am glad there are groups like Yesh Din who believe in justice and are in a position to do something about it.
Israel continues to stall as they fill in more and more of Palestine with illegal settlements. At this rate it looks like there is really only a one-state solution - something that many Israeli jews should fear because the would be voted out of power by Palestinians, if they actually granted them equal rights.
Carter's use of the word Apartheid to describe the current situation seems accurate.
Politicscorner
Do right-wing groups in Israel intend to achieve a two state peace solution or do they intend a one state democratic outcome??
Only majority pressure within Israel's population and REAL American pressure can make a difference.
Right-wing groups expect that Arabs will never make peace, including "Israeli Arabs." Therefore it will be necessary to expel them, as a matter of self-preservation. This mirrors the general Arab belief, which says that the Arabs will eventually crush Israel with the Arab Population Bomb.
Yesh Din is proof that there is still good in the world.
I hope that they can help the Palestinians. I hope that the Palestinian people who have no reason what-so-ever to trust an Israeli will know that these Israeli's are different.
George C. Brown - This is a great idea, but in the meantime the U.S. government needs to stop selling (giving, under the guise of "aid") arms and armaments to Israel until they will sit down and bargain in GOOD FAITH with regard to letting the Palestinians have their own land WITHOUT Israeli intrusion!
What a great idea to sue the Israeli Government, the same Government that, working with the IDF, have pushed Palestinians off their land and allowed settlements to be built all over the place.
The Israeli Government, the one elected by the Israel people, are the crooks. What chance is there of such a suit succeeding?
The Israelis don't even admit to their war crimes when the evidence is all over our television screens.
A big U.N. force needs to invade Israel and drive them off Palestinian land, push them back to the 1967 borders, then disarm them.
There is no other solution!
www.dangerouscreation.com
Subtract Israel from modern history and voila!: We have a world with no PLO, no Hamas, no Hezbollah, no war in Iraq, and little or no conflict between U.S. and Syria and Iran. Very likely there would be little to fuel the hatred of Osama bin Laden and his ilk and, hence, no 9/11. Millions could come out of their graves and hiding places into a much more peaceful world. Hundreds of billions of dollars would be saved
Given this alternative reality, one can only conclude that the British Mandate that fulfilled the Zionist's imagined covenant with God to return to the Promised Land of ancient history was easily the greatest blunder in Human history. Modern Israel -- no matter how democratic or well intentioned it sees itself -- may well be the source of World War III – and a real and unprophesied Armegeddon.
Although the world would unquestionably be poorer without Jewish culture, it’s important to understand what the effects of Zionism and the taking of an Arab country have been.
To subtract Israel, one would have to subtract Western Imperialism, perhaps five hundred years worth. After all, without it, there could have been no Britsh Mandate. I think the real whopper of a mistake was the destruction of the Ottoman Empire, and the subsequent division of that empire into Imperial fiefdoms by the British and French. Once that was done, it was too easy for all of the great powers to interfere in the Mid-east in all sorts of ways contrary to the interests of the inhabitants.
Hamas shoots missiles in the hopes of squeezing Israelis out of Southern Israel. Israel builds settlements, in hopes of squeezing Arabs out of the West Bank. Quid pro quo.
Israeli settlement-building says to the Palestinians: no, time is not on your side.
You're sick.
You sound surprised.
Believe me I'm not.
Or, Hamas shoots missiles in the hopes of Israeli overreaction that condemn her before the world. Seems that Israel is laying into the handof Hamas, just as the uSA has played into the hand of Islamofascists.
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so. Bertrand Russell
Where "Israeli overreaction" means the same as "many dead Palestinian children." I agree. "Many dead Palestinian children" is a pillar of the Hamas strategy. That's why they push the children to the front lines, and hide the Hamas fighters in underground shelters.
There are tactics... And then there are strategies...
Non-conventional warfare is fought with unconventional means...
And extended occupation gets messy after a few generations...
The resistance & liberation movements in Palestine take on a mythical quality...
Geurrilla tactics of car bombs & suicide bombers and home made rockets show desperation...
Appealing to the global community to bring awareness to the plight of the palestinians is a strategy...
IDF tactics using white phosphorus & cluster bombs & predator drones shows exasperation...
Israeli settlements and " freedom wall " construction are also tactics in a long term strategy...
The settlements will continue unabated, even if the whole world disapproved...
It is much easier to ask for forgiveness... than it is to ask for permission...
"Israeli authorities are systematically violating international law"
As they have since the inception of Israel. They have ALWAYS been a lawless country who shows nothing but contempt to the international community.
I recall in the old testament when Lot was debating with his god about the coming destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. He asked his god to spare the cities if he could find some honest men within its walls. His god agreed but Lot failed to find any.
This article notes that there are at least some honest folks in Israel, thus I would say to those calling for the destruction of Israel that it would be far more compassionate if you called for the increase in the numbers of those who seek peace with the Palestinian people and an end to the heinous actions of their own government. If you call for the destruction of Israel then it is only fair to call for the same destruction of the USA which has done far more harm and for far longer.
I am aware that, within Israel , there are many who protest the actions of their govt. with respect to the Palestinians and would note that the figure of 95% who agree with the recent slaughter seems wrong to me. The issue is peace not further destruction and the calling for an end to a nation is not helpful at all.
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so. Bertrand Russell
Not one single poster who has commented here has, so far as I can see, offered the slightest bit of justification for Israel's illegal settlements activity, even to repeat the hackneyed excuses about these settlements as essential to Israel's "self defense" (as did the one Israeli woman on Bob Simon's piece who defended settlers as protectors of the country, which I believe was the original intention of the settler movement.) With Israel's U.S. defenders totally muted---at least here---one wonders about how out-of-touch is the U.S. Congress and presidency in their enunciation of policies that sound like they were formulated in Tel Aviv---or worse.
Good on Yesh Din.
There was a piece the other day right here, although not only on CD, called "Fueling the Cycle Of Hate".
I personally think it would be a good idea for all posters to consider the actual universal implications of this title, as it applies to everyone, anytime and any place. Because *that* is the underlying problem, whatever 'side' we happen to be on.
And i would like to suggest that many posts here lately, seem to reflect attitudes and interpersonal discourse that represent the very kinds of hatred that people are railing against -from all directions. The irony is pretty apparent.
Refusing to realize this is why history repeats itself (or rhymes, as has been said).
Peace.
Good words. Hard to practice, but good words.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
Israel can be hurt with boycotts.
Too bad they cant get sanctions.
Iranians had their hotmail access cut off recently. Colombians faces all sorts of restrictions.
Little things like that would drive Israelis crazy.
Keep their academics from speaking abroad.
Too bad arab countries still trade with Israel. They sell out the Palestinians first and foremost.
They do what they do because they face no consequences in their lives.
I dont think the peace groups there are large enough to have much impact.
The most high profile ones end up leaving the country.
And it sounds like it is getting more fanatical with each generation.
Still the Bob Simon report was refreshingly one sided(as in fair).
Is the Israeli government serious about removing settlements?
I doubt it-but it does sound like a religious-secular war is coming there.
Didnt the IDF sink a ship of armed militia jews after the founding of Israel?
What I never understood is why the US right-wing who promote the sacred principles of free markets, guns, and private property, also support Israel so strongly!
Isn't Israel committing "illegal takings" of Palestinian Private Property?
Isn't Israel denying the Palestinians their Right To Bear Arms For Self Defense?
And finally, aren't the checkpoints and the wall restricting Palestinian business activity and denying them access to Free Markets?
Zionism sounds pretty socialistic and anti-freedom to me!
- USAn
And this country, Israel, expects recognition by the Palestinians? If change is what's it all about: Barack Obama, when are you going to tackle this issue? Your sucking up to AIPAC, and several of your speeches regarding the Middle East, literally demand a stance on this. Israel wants the Palestinians out, final!! Forget about negotiations if a blind eye is turned on this.
I encourage everyone to spend a couple hours exploring the West Bank using the Google Maps satellite images.
Start here at Ramallah,
http://tinyurl.com/bdd3xs
Then explore around, makng sure to zoom in as needed - go south past east Jerusalem past Bethelehem to the Dead Sea, then north, up the Jordan river valley.
Even if they wereen't labeled with Hebrew names, the "settlements" are obvious from the large luxuriuus homes on wide suburban streets, swimming pools and health clubs (often labeled for some reason). Note the walled Jewish settlements that have taken over all the good farmland of the Jordan Valley. Everything is linked by a network of excellent highways.
Then, note the the dirt-road shantyyowns and slums and refugee camps on the rocky hillsides and ravines. All are bypassed by the nice Jew only limited-access highways. Physical barricades block the palestinian dirt roads where they cross the Jewish highways. These are, of course, where the Palestinians live. This is the "Palestinian State" Isreal is offering them. They would get almost none of the Jordan valley except the uninhabitable desert near the dead sea. They would get their hillside camps and their poverty. If they dare demonstrate against their conditions, they will get brutally repressed by compliant, corrupt palestinain-puppet-police out of Ramallah.
These are the facts on the ground that Isreal has been building. And this "Palestinian State" Israel is offering would make any US "Indian" reservation look wildly generous in comparison.
---USAn---
Wow! He's right check it out. That Peres sure is one lying dirt bag.
Sophie Scholl-The Final Days
Other things to note are that meandering concrete feature that isn't labeled as a road. That is the Apartheid Wall. Look for it as it winds west then south of Ramallah, enclosing an abandoned commercial airport that was apparently once served Ramallah. Well, now it's Israel's. (will Isreal "allow" the free nation of Palestine to have an Air force?)
Near the arport (off the end of the runway) is an obvious large checkpoint for the Palestinians. The large indistrial Park near here (Atarot industrial zone) is all Isreali now - the wall goes right down highway 60 running south from Ramallah, then carves through a Palestinian neighborhood (not yet completed when the picture was taken) I'm sure a lot of people lost their homes. it then heads into open pasture land far to the east.
Almost nowhere is it running anywhere near the "1948 Armsitice Line" the only internationally recognized Israeli border.
Of course, there are settlements far to the east of even the Illegal Wall.
God Damn the Zionists!
---USAn---
I hear nothing but lies from these genocidal Israeli Jews and their supporters.
And now to top everything:
Peres says Israel kills for 'democracy'
Sure, just like Hitler did!
As far as I know the only two groups who view Jews as a "race" are the nazis and the zionists.
Check out the history of zionism here
http://www.marxists.de/middleast/brenner/index.htm
Sophie Scholl-The Final Days
Yesh Din is an example of the one and only Hope for the Palestinians. Israeli Jews themselves. No Boycott, no UN pressure, no Nothing will effect Israeli policy from outside it's borders. 60 years of recent history illustrate this. Impervious.
However, were one tenth, one twentieth of the Israeli Jewish population to mobilize against the decimation within the the Occupied Territories, vocally demonstrate, policy on the ground could be radically altered.
To every Jewish Israeli Voice for Peace, oh Tres Bien, talk to your brothers and sisters. You are the Only Hope. azjoe
I disagree boycott the country and it's products, pass laws forbidding one's countrymen from serving in the IDF, embargo all products going to Israel (arms, gas, oil, money), and blockade it's ports. Do this until the nukes are handed over and they abandon the religious state concept.
The world can no more afford a "Jewish" state than we can afford the Vatican. Both have proven themselves less than candid and are very troublesome in the affairs of others. Superstition has no place in government.
I do agree that more Israelis must see the light, but on their steady diet of triumphalism it is no wonder that over 95% of them approved of the Christmas Massacre of Palestine.
Sophie Scholl-The Final Days
Azjoe, if you check out indymedia israel you will see many actions taken, but they are treated the way our protests have been in the u.s.
More kids need to become refusers and join the ranks of refusing to join the military, in my opinion.
There's no lack of pro-peace Israelis. There is a lack of pro-peace Arabs.
Yes, yes...it's all the Arabs' fault.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
Often, you get better information about Israeli policies by reading the Israeli press than you do by reading US press. Here's an article from Ha'aretz, the Israeli daily newspaper:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060043.html
...and they wonder why Hamas keeps on launching their puny rockets at them.
Bob Simon, a respected journalist, now with 60 Minutes, is under fire from pro-Israel groups for showing a piece on the illegal and heinous settlements on Palestinian land. Check them out here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_UwGgLdmdI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8KwUSQL9zc&feature=related
And as you watch, you will see at the end what the world is up against. It is not only Israeli Zionism, but religious fundamentalism around the world.
How do we confront and defuse such ticking time bombs, such people who are sure that their way is the right way, the only way? We must defuse them and their supporters, because they will blow this world up if we don't.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
I guess you will be joining the "Support Bob Simon" page on facebook.
The stuff I saw on Aljazeera was really gut wrenching. Bob Simon's piece was rather tame so I am a little perplex over why anyone would complain about it.
It would be good to take a moment to thank 60 Minutes for airing a truthful report. I believe that those who wish to control the news on this issue are inundating CBS with criticism.
Write: CBS 60 Minutes | 524 West 57th St. |New York, NY 10019
Phone: (212) 975-3247
Email: 60m@cbsnews.com
Joe
I did a couple days ago. One can only imagine the swirling shitstorm Simon is now weathering. I expect any day now to see CBS run a story on the plight of the Israelis.