"Let us atone, in quiet and humility. Let us spend the day truly studying the example of our Founders. May we earn a new birth of courage before our nations birthday next rolls around"
I just love it when an "American" pauses to reflect on the "Forth", what the "Founders" had in mind, when they "founded", the "Great Experiment in Human Governance"--------the "Declaration of Independence, and the Constitution" and the "Bill of Rights".

How amazingly hypocritical, or just plan deceptive thoughts such as these are (not to mean that the above article is inncorect, or inaccurate, or not a fairly good start)----

This Nation was founded by a group of men (no women) who all but a few owned slaves who labored so that those men could plot to violate their existing oath to their King-(another George) for essentially what was a move to make life better FOR THEM------.

They made this move in order to take property from those who had possessed it for thousands of years, who had developed agriculture, and then civilization, when the Europeans were still wandering in Hunter Gatherer Groups, or for many of those Europeans did not exist in any marked form until the Romans. The people who collectively had developed more than 120 food plants from wild sources without the aid of written languages, and had great civilizations they had left behind in earthen mounds (in the Central and Southern "Americas" they had developed stone structures that have outlasted those created by the Egyptians)....and the list of their accomplishments is far too great to delve into here---- for the many readers with short attentions spans, and biased opinions that far too many "Americans" have exhibited for far too many generations.
Those "founders' went on to lie and cheat each other and the world for generation after generation--they fought the bloodiest war they have yet known; among themselves, for the "right" to own another human being, while living in excessive wealth from the labor of those human beings. Only to have the "losers" of that war continue to deny the basic rights to those human beings (those Negros) for another 100 years.
They then began making war against others for land they bought from France, that France did not own. When they realized that they could not win those wars, they capitulated, i.e. surrendered, then less than twenty years later
began breaking those treaties in direct violation of that "Constitution" and stealing an entire continent in the process---along with the material wealth of that continent.
They then took some of the wealth (the larger portion being retained by a very few, who mostly did nothing for it except be born to the "proper parentage") to make war in diverse and foreighn locations, for ridiculous and frivolous reasons killing and maiming millions of innocent people (collectively of course) and at the same time holding themselves up to be righteous and just, and "good people".
Instead of learning from the mistakes of history, they repeat them---on magnificent scales. Then again set themselves up as the "great liberators" appointed by a "God*" to bring "freedom and democracy" to others---(or at least prevent them from developing a form of self-government which might be contrary to the "great example set by the Americans".........) or "just kill em all and let God sort them out"----------
They lament when the "world misunderstands them" and "criticizes them without really knowing them".... they allow Muppet's, puppets, morons and fools, to be elected to high office, with all of the accompanying powers, in control of weapons/military power the likes of which the world has ever known before.
All the while they fail to see that presently they actually are setting the "negative example" which is actually very important for future "experimenters " who may be intelligent enough to learn from the mistakes of history, or at the least from their own mistakes.
So now once every year on the anniversary,"the forth" they "close the shop", cook up a feast---- if they have the food, or a place to cook it---if not then they should be ashamed to be poor in such a rich nation with so much "opportunity" that so many come from around the world, often at great risk to enjoy that "opportunity"----- usually to work cheap, pay taxes, and shut up-----------
Then they celebrate with fire works, and speeches, and with a tear in the "collective eye" they thank God that they are "Americans".....in America.
* Now that "God thing" is very important to "Americans"------so important that they allow the "faith based organizations" to bring in vast sums of money TAX FREE, have the "preachers" live like the mega wealthy, and at the same time--------offer TAX MONEY to them for services that the Federal Government would be offering in an intelligent civilization....or the "Church" should be giving away according to their own rhetoric.
And that "God" is taught to the smallest children to be an "all seeing all knowing ever present most powerful---(he knows when you are sleeping, he knows when you're awake, he knows when you've been bad or good---so be good for goodness sake; oh wait a minute that's Santa Clause)----that "God" is the one that strikes you down if you do not believe, or deprives the children of the non-believers, or favors one race of human being over another--or---oh well he just needs some help with MONEY------so send some, here's my address at the TV station-------

I would ask the intelligent readers to imagine yourself an archaeologist of a future civilisation (if Humanity survives the "Nuculer Age") reading the history of the USA------------and how you will marvel at how much was wasted by so many people for so long----and how utterly stupid people must have been in the "American Era"----------

Then place your hand over your heart, look to the horizon and repeat this: "let us all hope that this never happens again"

Of course there is still time left---perhaps---to make the necessary changes so that those of the future will not be reading that history and be amazed at how stupid people could be back then-----

But probably not much time.

So have a "Happy Forth", it could be the last one, or the next to the last one or-------it's all up to the Americans----they can learn from the mistakes---or just keep on repeating them.

My husband and I haven't flown the flag since 2001. We have a big flag pole in front of our garden. We used to always have a flag out there, at least on the holidays. This year, for the first time since 2001 I have decided to fly the flag. Bought a brand new one. I am going to fly it upside down, which means that we are in trouble. There will be a lot of people in town over the weekend. Mostly republicans. They are gonna be pissed off, because not only are they republicans, they are a bunch of idiots who never read the news and who vote republcan only because their families have voted republican for the past 50 years. They think I'm some kind of a liberal nut case. Well, maybe I am. I would rather be that than a small minded conservative that doesn't know anything about the world any further than maybe 50 miles away.

They say that if you aren't outraged, you aren't paying attention, but 55-60% of the people of this country have been paying attention and our criminals in Washington refuse to listen. Our local elected representative, after listening to us long enough to get elected, raidly join the criminals in Washington to continue the game. We need another system. Our founding fathers would agree.

They made this move in order to take property from those who had possessed it for thousands of years, who had developed agriculture, and then civilization, when the Europeans were still wandering in Hunter Gatherer Groups,

Who in the world are you talking about and where? Thanks.

A quote:

Today, there are those who attempt to remake Jefferson and the other founders as religious zealots, as essentially conservative men who happened to have a slight squabble with King George III, or, worst of all, as imperialists who would want the United States to dominate the affairs of other lands.
The founders were imperfect men, to be sure. Few were so radical, or so far ahead of their times, as Tom Paine, the wisest of their number. But they were, proudly and unquestionably, revolutionaries against the old order of inherited monarchy, state churches, empires and the authority of the few over the fate of the many.
John Nichols http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0703-27.htm

"For we have sinned."

What you mean 'we', white man?

I have not sinned. I paid attention. I have not settled for lame excuses. I did not trash the Constitution. I did not torture prisoners, imprison people, or ship them to foreign lands.

I knew what was going on. Anyone can fool me, but I always knew, and I straighten out anyone who expresses an opinion otherwise. I write letters to anyone and everyone. What the hell are you supposed to do when no-one listens? Shout louder till they lock you up? And I would do that too if it would achieve anything at all.

Don't involve me in your guilt trip.

It seems to me we are still living in the "old order of inherited monarchy, state churches, empires and the authority of the few over the fate of the many. . . "

Just because we have various personas, supposedly elected, occupying the 'seats of power', rather than one dynastic family (oh wait, we seem to have those, too), doesn't mean that the purpose of the 'seats of power' themselves have changed . . .

"History itself, despite its wrenching pain, cannot be unlived. But if faced with courage, it need not be lived again." -- Maya Angelou

"US atrocities..."

I hate to quibble with sensible sentiments, but how can the author talk about atrocities without mentioning the million or so Iraqis killed in a criminal invasion? Torture is bad, but isn't it strange to speak of atrocities against an unmentioned background of death and horror wherein the principle atrocities reside?

The Angelou quote is right on point.

And facing history with courage is a also the essence of the quest for impeaching misfeasors who have shredded and tangled the Constitution in which our government's very authority is vested. Facing history with courage means affirming the very mechanisms set forth in the Constitution for righting official wrongs-- giving the supreme law of the land its due and fiercely opposing efforts to circumvent and undo it.

Facing history with courage means donning the quaint and cumbersome armor of principle and political integrity, and undertaking the inefficient and risky task of setting wrongs to right.

This view is likely to be rejected out of hand by pragmatic political thinkers-- puerile, sentimental, romantic, quaint.

Our political class, operating as technocratic middle-manager executives running wholly owned subsidiaries within our para-corporate legislative and executive branches, have learned to think exclusively in terms like "cost/benefit" and improving the bottom line.

So, as e e cummings once wrote:

pity this busy monster, manunkind,

not. Progress is a comfortable disease:
your victim (death and life safely beyond)

[...]

I have no intention of doing a damn thing on the Fourth beside staying away from people. I refuse to celebrate that ridiculous "holiday".

But I must say . . . petsr4ever07 - if you truly go through with your idea, then you and your husband have WAAAAAAY bigger balls than I do. I bow in reverence. I'm not worthy. : )

It's time to quit being afraid! Afraid of what people will think! We are in a lot of trouble in this country and there are a large group of people that are duped. Even they know something is wrong but they can't articulate it. We must show the duped what they have been feeling deep down in their guts is the unrighteousness of this fascist country. Once they understand maybe..just maybe they will stand up and help us take back this country. maybe.

Bravo and Thanks to Chris Satullo, whose fine piece reposted in Common Dreams is but one of many fine contributions he makes in the pages of the Inquirer. For those who find omissions or other flaws in this piece, my suggestion is, ask whether you want the changes to which Satullo points or the status quo. I think it's pretty clear that you're never going to get to the country and policies championed by RichM and NativeSon by rejecting pieces like Satullo's. I don't see a groundswell of anti-torture, anti-rendition, pro-Constitutional government forces rejecting Satullo's perspective as insufficient and insisting on the purity called for by RichM and NativeSon. It's extraordinary to have a piece like this in the newspaper of a major Pennsylvania city. Be grateful, and show support, or expect a long night of far worse than we have now.

Good point CJM. I won't join in this author's guilt trip either. I never fell for the MSM BS or the White Houe rhetoric. People didn't listen and they still aren't.

The author writes... "The America they founded should never imprison people for years without charge or hearing."

No, instead they just enslaved millions and wrote into their Constitution provisions for white men to carry guns to enforce it. The Constitution is a nice start, but it was born out of self serving interests as well.

I refuse to fly the red white and blue except upside down as a sign of distress.

Mr. Moore;

Try reading the following:

The Seeds of Change, an edition comprised of several smaller works by varied authors mostly concerning itself with the development of plant foods in the Americas.

America's Hidden Cities: by Roger G. Kennedy
who was director of the National Parks Service when he authored the book. It concerns itself with the Earthen Mounds still dotted across the Mississippi River Valley, and the Ohio River Valley and the "Deep South", Alabama, Mississippi, Florida. Remnants of ancient civilizations, that the 'early Americans, Jefferson included, considerd to have been constructed by "a lost tribe of Israel---this salso gave rise to the Mormon church----which STILL believes the Native American People to be "proof of a Lost Tribe of Israel"---despite the contrary evidence presented by the DNA record----we Native People are a distinct race, and older than imaginable.
For a short comparison you might wish to consider this very simple fact:
For one of many examples; the Earthen Mounds (those created by human hand, comprised of Earth, (dirt, soil,) carried by Human beings, from one location to another, usually in a large basket, and deposited then spread out over an area with the intention of building a communal structure, usually some sort of "temple" or Community Area. When bringing together human beings for this type of communal labor, it is imperative that they be "fed", and regularly, which means that for just one structure, known as the "Serpent Mound" in southern Ohio, a 1/4 mile long effigy of a Serpent with a Globe in it's mouth, that is estimated to have been constructed between 1000-1060 A.D.---most likely took several years to complete. Feeding that many people would show that the Native American people who completed that structure (and many many more similar to it) were already producing large quantities of Maize (corn)----in fact there were approximately seven varieties of Maize being produced by that time. Maize (Corn) will NOT grow wild, is totally dependent upon human hands to produce, and the DNA cannot be traced to any known wild relative.......it is only one of approx 10 fully domesticated plants known world wide.

That kind of "Horticulture" takes thousands of years to develop----hence just one small reminder of the antiquity of those Native American "human hands"---------in the same period 1000-1060 the Europeans were still locked in the "Dark Ages" and could hardly feed themselves.............

The Nations Within; Vine DeLoria Jr.

Disinherited; by Dale Van Every considered the definitive work on the treatment of the Native American People, by the "good ole USA".............

*Civilization is absolutely dependent upon Agriculture. There is overwhelming evidence showing that the Native Peoples of the "Americas" had developed Agriculture then Civilization(s) just lightly before the "Old World"----------

your arrogance shines brighter than your ignorance, which could be compared to a bright light at the bottom of a well.
Then again you are typical of the average American---------arrogance and ignorance are as co-dependent as Agriculture and Civilization, and it seems to be an inherited trait with most Americans.
But those of us who are "educators" need people like you to serve as negative examples.."Billy/Suzie read your assignments or you could end up like Mr. Thomas Moore"
Take heart though, your condition can be totally eliminated with just one remedy-----
Read -----and try reading something that is factual, instead of propaganda----------your future and that of your descendants will depend upon it...........

your arrogance shines brighter than your ignorance, which could be compared to a bright light at the bottom of a well.
NativeSon July 4th, 2008 12:59 pm

"Then again you are typical of the average American———arrogance and ignorance are as co-dependent as Agriculture and Civilization, and it seems to be an inherited trait with most Americans.
But those of us who are "educators" need people like you to serve as negative examples.."Billy/Suzie read your assignments or you could end up like Mr. Thomas Moore""

Well you were doing just fine up to the point where you started with the personal insults. My friend, I was jotting some titles down to check out. If you want to see true and total arrogance, look at the last part of your posting. My God, you must feel horribly alone up there.

I will darn well hope that you aren't teaching anyone. Anybody that displays such a closed mind, only uses cherry picked references would cheat anyone that they were responsible for.

I am quite well aware of the things you mentioned, I wanted to know what you were referring to.

Forget I asked. Enjoy your self gratifying involvement. I didn't deserve your insults, your rudeness or youe arrogance.

God Bless America and all who serve her.

Mr. More,

You are correct, and I apologize for any personal insult in my words.

Thank you for your guidance.

NativeSon July 4th, 2008 4:51 pm

That was very kind and generous of you to say. Case closed.

I have been looking at the references you indicated, I did know about the things you spoke of, but rusty at best.

I've added it to my study list along with the Socialism pissantnobody keeps throwing at me....I

Have a safe weekend!

"NativeSon July 3rd, 2008 1:20 pm"

Man, am I glad to not have made that post. It says some important things about history, but it's badly or very poorly written, so I don't bother with reading most of it for it's bunk. I noticed a few mentions that are certainly worthy of our attention and it's just very unfortunate that the writer was such a slob. To do that against or on an important topic is to be a bastard little shit slob too; for truly [caring] people would be far more careful, and he was as care-[less] as could be. Truly caring people are not care[less]!. And that shit obviously is not a [caring] individual! Either that, or he's a damn moron; and there are many of them around. Not good either way though!