Archbishop’s Assault On US Foreign Policy
The Archbishop of Canterbury has launched a stinging attack on the United States, comparing it unfavourably with the British Empire at its peak.
Dr Rowan Williams criticised America for intervening overseas with a “quick burst of violent action” and claimed its foreign policy had created the “worst of all worlds”.
The wide-ranging interview with a British Muslim lifestyle magazine included the Anglican leader’s most outspoken criticisms to date of the US and the war in Iraq.
He also said that the modern Western definition of humanity was not working, and that there was something about Western modernity that “really does eat away at the soul”.
Dr Williams said the crisis in Iraq was caused by America’s misguided sense of its mission in the world and ridiculed the “chosen nation” myth in America and the idea that what happened there was God’s purpose.
He claimed the US had lost the moral high ground since the September 11 attacks, and urged it to launch a “generous and intelligent programme of aid directed to the societies that have been ravaged; a check on the economic exploitation of defeated territories; a demilitarisation of their presence”.
He added: “We have only one global hegemonic power. It is not accumulating territory: it is trying to accumulate influence and control. That’s not working.
“It is one thing to take over a territory and then pour energy and resources in to administering it and normalising it. Rightly or wrongly, that’s what the British Empire did in India, for example.
“It is another thing to go in on the assumption that a quick burst of violent action will somehow clear the decks and that you can move on and other people will put it back together - Iraq, for example.”
He described violence as “a quick discharge of frustration”, adding: ” It serves you. It does not serve the situation. Whenever people turn to violence what they do is temporarily release themselves from some sort of problem but they help no one else.
“A lot of pressure around the invasion of Iraq was ‘we’ve got to do something, then we’ll feel better’. That’s very dangerous.”
Dr Williams said he believed he had a role to play in the political arena in the UK by keeping before government “the great question of how you can actually contribute to a responsible civil society in a context where you’ve undermined most of the foundations on which that society can be built”.
He offered only mild criticisms of Islam in the magazine Emel, describing the political solutions offered by the Muslim world as “not the most impressive”.
He also said he was surprised that the small Christian community in Pakistan was seen as “deeply threatening by an overwhelming Muslim majority”, and he condemned the Israeli security wall that cuts Bethlehem in two.
However, he also commended the Muslim practice of praying five times a day, saying that it allowed the remembrance of God to be “built deeply in their daily rhythm”.
The Archbishop has been a persistent critic of the war in Iraq and said last month that the conflict had wreaked “terrible damage” on the Middle East.
© 2007 The Telegraph
Good Man ! God Bless you Archbishop
The U.S. lost the ‘moral high ground’ long before 9/11. A half century of unconditional support for Israeli atrocities would make a two faced hypocrit out of any nation.
WAR RESOLUTION
All Too Relevant Quote: How is the World Ruled, & how do wars start?—
Diplomats tell lies to journalists, & then believe what they read.
(Karl Kraus, Austrian Press,1874-1936)
Even with our limited information on this war, it is all to evident that our legislators erred when they granted this unlearned and arrogant administration the authority to embark on and perpetuate this ill conceived war.
The weapons inspectors were there and we had contained Saddam. The resulting “civil war” and chaos had been predicted by many informed experts, and should have been obvious–but their advice was ignored. One can only imagine the extent of disaster if Saddam had unleashed some biological, chemical, or primitive nuclear weapons on our troops during the invasion.
After nearly four years, the only rational option left now is for congress to seize the war powers from the president–and then pursue a logical course to conclude this misadventure. This would include not only recognition of the recent advisory commissions recommendations (which the administration ignored) but also curbing profiteering, promoting measures for energy conservation and global warming mitigation to reduce our dependance on their oil–and regain some worldwide trust.
The alternative is to permit continuation of this disastrous quagmire, while risking a war with Iran and destabilization of the entire area– and further damaging our international stature.
What US ‘moral high ground’? The US has had this lofty reputation principally among the European and English dominant countries’ middle classes, but not everywhere and with everyone by far. What is changing is that support for US foreign policies is disintegrating even among that rather compliant portion of the world population.
Why? It is simply because US ruling elites have no answers for any major world problems we face today. The Empire really is becoming denuded of cover.
I have to puke whenever I see a “God bless America” bumper sticker. Why not rest of the world? This brain-washed ideology of ” we are better than others” is our downfall.
I for one will be deeply thriled when my country looses their “I’m special,” mentality. I remember reading somewhere that all the problems in the world can be traced back to any specific group that considers itself to be “special.”
How encouraging that the Archbishop “condemned the Israeli security wall that cuts Bethlehem in two” and spoke up about “America’s misguided sense of its mission in the world and ridiculed the “chosen nation” myth”
On the eve of Annapolis I offer you the words of another Archbishop, Desmond Tutu, who in 1984 won the Nobel Peace Prize for his fearless and courageous stand against Apartheid in South Africa.
In April 29, 2002 while in Boston, Tutu spoke about Israel Palestine.
He was “very deeply distressed” by what he observed in his recent visit to the Holy Land, adding:
“It reminded me so much of what happened in South Africa.” The Nobel peace laureate said he saw “the humiliation of the Palestinians at checkpoints and roadblocks, suffering like us when young white police officers prevented us from moving about. Referring to Americans, he adds, “People are scared in this country to say wrong is wrong because the Jewish lobby is powerful—very powerful. Well, so what? The apartheid government was very powerful, but today it no longer exists.” [The Link, “About That Word Apartheid”, April-May 2007, Published by Americans for Middle East Understanding, Inc.]
On October 27, 2007, in Boston again, Archbishop Desmond Tutu and scores of other justice and peace seeking citizens addressed the Apartheid Paradigm in Israel Palestine to a SRO crowd organized by FOSNA/Friends of SABEEL [Arabic for The Way] in North America.
In his Keynote address Tutu remarked:
“Between the root of human solidarity and the fruit of human wholeness, there is the hard work of telling the truth…No one takes up this work on a do-gooder’s whim. It is not a choice. One feels compelled into it…An acute awareness of fallibility is a constant companion in this task, but because nothing is more important in the current situation than to speak as truthfully as one can, there can be no shrinking from testifying to what one sees and hears.
“What do I see and hear in the Holy Land? …I have to tell the truth: I am reminded of the yoke of oppression that was once our burden in South Africa…I have to tell the truth: I am reminded of the bitter days of uprooting and despoiling in my own country…I have to tell the truth: I am reminded of the explosive anger that inflamed South Africa, too.
“Some people are enraged by comparisons between the Israeli/Palestinian conflict and what happened in South Africa. There are differences between the two situations, but a comparison need not be exact in every feature to yield clarity about what is going on.
“Moreover, for those of us who lived through the dehumanizing horrors of the apartheid era, the comparison seems not only apt, it is also necessary. It is necessary if we are to persevere in our hope that things can change…I have seen it and heard it, and so to this truth, too, I am compelled to testify - if it can happen in South Africa, it can happen with the Israelis and Palestinians. There is not much reason to be optimistic, but there is every reason to hope.” [© Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company]
“HOPE has two children. The first is ANGER at the way things are. The second is COURAGE to DO SOMETHING about it.”-St. Augustine
The above is excerpted from WAWA Blog
http://www.wearewideawake.org/
November 25, 2007:
Apartheid in Israel Palestine! Viability in Annapolis?
Too bad the American Catholic Bishops and the hierarchy cannot come out with a statement like this. The Church is just another corporation, afraid that the money basket will be empty is they speak out against the war. Such hypocrisy. Jesus, the non violent, pacifist, liberal in thinking–help the poor and hungry, love your neighbor. I read that the Chaplain of the military out of St. Patrick’s in NY is blessing and praying for the surge! That’s like Cardinal Francis Spellman blessing the bombs that went to Vietnam. No wonder I have lost my religion–but, not my faith…
Thank God the world has those yet willing and able to speak the truth. Former President Jimmy Carter, another Nobel Peace Laureate, recently wrote a book in which he too spoke the truth. Former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, an American hero, so designated by George H.W.Bush, who faced off Saddam Hussein and save over 800 embassies’ families in Baghdad, has been personally attacked for years for telling the truth. We have so many whistleblowers whose lives have been turned upside down by the White House for telling the truth. One of the most disturbing things about this time is that there is truth, there are opinions and there are lies or, as one White House official said several years ago, “new realities.” The “new realities” are not opinions based on facts. They are spin based on lies. Many times it is difficult to sort that through. The claims are often persuasive. We need to return to the facts before we can debate the opinions. If I am sounding somewhat Rovian, it might have to do with that convoluted and obfuscating process that has thrust us into increased confusion about what is is.
Well said, Demetria! Instead, they spend their time parsing the liturgy and defending their own straying from the moral high ground!
To be fair, the Conference of Catholic Bishops has been against the Iraq invasion all along and has recently condemned US actions there:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/11/14/key_bishop_voices_alarm_over_iraq/
What has been lacking on mainstream Christianity’s part is a condemnation of the war-mongering, Islamo-facist-fantasizing religious right wackos like Pat Robertson.
What about Burma/Myanma
Win
We were “special” for a long, long time and then we became common, greedy, lofty and if that weren’t bad enough we got George W. Bush in office and he killed us with his brand of spirituality, The Radical Right kind! And then he alientated us from the rest of the world. ALL those who supported Bush in the beginning, and they weren’t that many or that great, have dropped off and out, no longer to be found. Bush is the only dolt to hang on to his incredible failure in Iraq. And I can’t wait for him and his neocon family to disapear from Government altogether!
I agree with Demetria. The history of the catholic church is nothing but exploitation and conquest and control of native peoples. In fact, from a political perspective, if you’re going to be honest, that’s all religion really is: control of the weak minded; and control of the defenseless.
The death and torture of millions lays testament to the fact that Christianity is among the bloodiest practices in history. It seems nothing has changed since the dark ages. Bush claims God talks to him. Torturing or killing those who disagree with you is now the mantra of the Bush Administration and it’s twin government: the CIA. Passing high voltage tasers through protesters or students asking questions is torture and is done as retribution for anyone who dares speak up against this new Corporate Republicrat “Red Party” which has highjacked my previously democratic government.
Since the adjacent stem cell story is cutoff and has no comment section, I’ll comment here.
Both the Catholic Church and the Pharmaceutical/Bush power bases fear the widespread development of stem cells. In ten to twenty years, this medical science will be as common as organ transplanting is today. But small children suffer and die today because diseases like diabetes is such big profitable business for the Big Pharms. The big pharms are in the business of selling pills; not of curing disease. As well, Regenerative medicine offers real tangible miracles that the Catholic Church cannot match or compete with. The offering plate may get pretty bare without something more than a weeping statue as evidence of the power of the church (or a conquistador with a vengeful sword demanding you be “saved.”)
The crooked FDA (headed previously by the crooked Craford and other Bush appointees) now accepts nearly any phonied up lab results for new drugs including omissions of serious side effects through a rubber-stamp honor system. The pressure put on my doctor in his own waiting room to be a drug pusher for these new medical band-aids by pharmaceutical reps was shamelessly peddled right in front of his patients.
It doesn’t matter what the subject is anymore…. The U.S. government continues to fail the people at ALL levels, nearly all the time. I call the contagion: Corporate Communism, where it is believed that all property and rights should be that of the Fortune 500.
None of this is going to get any better because we can no longer vote in the USA. It is well documented at “Bradblog.cxm” (replace the “x” with an “o”) that computer voting machines are taken home and hacked by overzealous election volunteers. Software chain of custody is a vender corporate secret not allowed to be over viewed by gov or citizens. No election is credible unless it takes place with recount able paper ballots cast with your own hand as opposed to hackable totaling formulas (that’s one for you and two for me, and one for me and one for you….. )
Without the ability to make politicians accountable: we have lost any semblance of democracy or accountability in the U.S.
But so I don’t get into trouble criticizing this commie government we now have, let me add:
“God save the little tyrant king bush.”
pac -out
America could be a special nation. Just act like one.
Why doesn’t the old arch bishop work on cleaning up the religion game? His cohorts in the Catholic church have condoned and covered up pedophiles including GAY pedophiles in direct opposition to their stated beliefs.
He appears to be another of these guys who can’t resist mixing religion and politics weakening the moral absolutes of religion and destroying compromise in politics. This always makes a toxic soup.
the pommie Bishop is ‘right on’
hang in public all traitors like those no dick assholes from texas in failed oil business
52 million for Rusmfield? he should be the first to hang
revolucion coming folks
12 million Hispanics and 4 million indigenous with weapons
stupid arrogant,xenophobic greedy USA, on the way down
20suitacsers already in US
ca ya,
the pommie Bishop is ‘right on’
hang in public all traitors like those no dick assholes from texas in failed oil business
52 million for Rusmfield? he should be the first to hang
revolucion coming folks
12 million Hispanics and 4 million indigenous with weapons
stupid arrogant,xenophobic greedy USA, on the way down
20 suitcasers already in US
see ya,
Dominick. When were we ever “special”? This nation was founded on the principle that white Europeans were a special class and indigenous peoples could be used and abused and destroyed at will. “Manifest Destiny” continued the white move west and the seizure of assets coveted by white elites has never stopped. Now the brown people are in the middle east and central asia and anywhere else where some desired commodity is available for the taking.
Dr Williams’s message has its roots in the Gospels, the teachings of Jesus. The Pentateuch, with its capital punishment, racism, misogyny, genocide and aggression is the ethical guide of the Bushes, Robertsons, Falwells, Huckabees and Dobsons of the world. The Bible is full of internally conflicting values, and it’s sad that most American protestants have chosen to ignore their putative savior and follow the ethos of a bloodthirsty, savage Bronze Age tribal society.
Robert Settgast, have never read that quote but have often said it myself. Spent 35 yrs in the FS, and came to know it as a truism.
Truth is only true as feedback, and then you can send it in to HQ as your own.
Well we certainly don’t need comparisons with the British Empire which stands in a league of it’s own for barbarity. By the way any resource which Britain may have poured into India was paid for many times over by Indians. Indian tribute alone paid for the British fleet for hundreds of years.
I would really like to hear this man speak out on the rotten deal foisted on the poor people of Palestine after the Naqba.
“Dr Rowan Williams criticised America for intervening overseas with a “quick burst of violent action” and claimed its foreign policy had created the “worst of all worlds”.”
Will miracles never cease!?
“He offered only mild criticisms of Islam in the magazine Emel, describing the political solutions offered by the Muslim world as “not the most impressive”……..However, he also commended the Muslim practice of praying five times a day, saying that it allowed the remembrance of God to be “built deeply in their daily rhythm”.”
I haven’t read “Emel”, but if their political solution involves living under Shiia Law while trying to avoid being subject to the democratic “Laws of the Land” in which they live, you had better believe that this will create social unrest among people who are more inclined to believe that everyone who lives in their particular country should be subject to the “same” secular laws inherent in their constitutions while simultaneously having the freedom to worship their own god.
Furthermore, if religious people don’t want to live by the laws of the religion they chose to engage in, it is contingent upon those within the religious hierarchy to expel those people from their place of worship.
Imagine how much more chaos there would be in Democracies that allowed religious sects to live by their own “rules of law” with no regard for sectarian rule of law! There are approximately 17 different world religions that follow either an oral or written tradition, and I really don’t think any country is capable of maintaining social order/harmony if this many religious organizations were allowed to rule and live by their own set of laws.
I wish the author of this article had been a little more specific with regard to the criticisms of Islam.
curoich this place was soecial when my family came here. It was special when many immigrants came through Ellis Island to spend the rest of their lives right here! We have evolved from a safe haven to one of many, many terrible things, but the underlying truth of America still exists.
It was a safe haven. A place to be proud of once, we can get back there again. Get rid of the neocons holding political office and see them for they really are and get back to caring for people again.
WmC I read the site you listed for the Catholic Bishops statement against the war. I don’t think it was very strong. And I do not remember the Bishops coming out with a statement before the war condeming it. I know Pope John Paul did but I was disappointed that the US Bishops didn’t. The Lutheran, Methodists and I other leaders came out against the war. If you have a site that you can guide me to I would appreciate it. I found one Catholic site quite some time ago that said the war met the criteria of a “just war” saying the US was trying to prevent harm to civilians. What a joke. I wrote them but they never replied to my letter. Basically I have withdrawn from the church becuase of it’s lack of oppositon of this war and I would love to find information otherwise.
You see the USA right from its inception was doomed to failure because the Washingtons and Jeffersons were just prominent families in England sent and sponsored by the King. The trouble arose when the King wanted some money back to pay for his constant wars and so the ” revolution ” was hatched by the Washington gang to avoid paying.
Greed permeated the system and still does, greed and organised religion invaded the USA. Almost all immigrants were the scum from other countries, the fast buck adventures, the gold diggers and the criminals.
So it is no surprise that Iraq and Vietnam among others were invaded on some lame excuse after another, It’s no surprise that Blackwater is in Iraq, in fact Blackwater represent the USA to a T.
It’s no surprise that a country like Sweden which cares for its citizens and rejects wars has also rejected religion.
I see now that Washington is having a good look at the 2nd amendment, Why? because the politicians, corporations and church fear a backlash from the US citizens whom they are screwing rotten.
I’m afraid the U.S. lost the moral high ground at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Then that was followed by the Dulles Brothers and their associates’ Global War on Socialism.
Demetria said:
“Too bad the American Catholic Bishops and the hierarchy cannot come out with a statement like this”
But what has the Episcopal Church in The United States of America had to say about their U.S.A. lately? (The Episcopalians are the mainstream American equivalent of the Anglicans.) I wonder how much the controversy about their ordination of gay Bishops has distracted them from a strong critique of their nation’s war mongering.
The full text of the Emel article/interview is at:
http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/arch2.pdf
That same Archbishop who praised the Queen and supporters celebrating 60 years of marriage, the same Queen who robbed the British people of money to pay for damage to her own private property due to her own incompetence, Windsor Castle. Take what he says with a pinch of salt he is part of the problem athough a much milder one.
what i find missing in this and many similar dialogues is the understanding that this administration has been extraordinarily successful in its mision. they set out to undo iraq and unsettle the mid-east. they support genocide of people of color in any arena that has natural resources that they covet. they have seen the almost total outsourcing of manufacturing to countries with little or no labor controls. they have slowed down most movement around greenhouse warming and other environmental polutions. the pharmaceutical companies have become the sole control of the condition of health in this country which has seen a downward landslide for people and a windfall profit for the corporations. the list goes on but the creme do la creme has been the overthrow of the constitution and the control of the judicieary inch by inch, line by line.
but the bottom line for americans is that they do not get it. they are not worth anything to this administration and the corporate elite. americans think/feel they are important and that they figure into the well being of this country’s concerns. the only concern for the people is how much money can they provide for the corporation bottom line; how much cannon fodder can they provide. cheap labor is gotten abroad so getting rid of americans is part of the agenda just as it is in areas like dafur or palestine. and even though people of color are top of the list for these genocidal maniacs, white workers are not far behind, and that includes much of the middle class that has become superfluous.
people need to realize that dialogue doesnt exist with the leadership. they have no interest in dialoguing. that is why the democratic position of conciliation and compromise is meaningless: if sincere in its motives, it is stupid and arrogant; if insincere, it is cynical and corrupt for the public.
we need to stop pretending that there is a ‘we the people.’ not unless our dialogue changes and we begin to organize.
oops, under the new radicalization and terrorism act, the thought police may be coming to get me! watch out.
Well,on the one hand, it seems profoundly important to me that those of us opposed not merely to the “poor planning and execution” of the US Mid East actions but to the underlying worldview that brings about such actions welcome whatever criticism is offered of US (and British) conduct. On the other hand, I confess to have tired long ago of hearing about how “modernity” is so bad for humanity — whether for the soul, the body, or anything else. Compared to when, and where, and for how many?
DEMETRIA:
That is why Jesus Christ was not a Catholic.
In fact, he never was a Christian in the first place.
SAFIYAH:
Well said.
GAIL:
Your Islamophobia is showing through dear. Also, please define “DEMOCRACY” and then show whether the US and Israel are “democracies”. I will then fervently try to get the Nobel Prize for BS.
DR. ROWAN
I wish you had one-thousandth the spine of the original article in whose name you speak, Jesus Christ, and staged a hunger strike in front of Buckingham palace in 2002 to prevent Britain from joining with Bush to kill 2 million Iraqis and wound or displace 8 million others. Of these 50% are angelic little children.
By the way, as I recall, the beautiful Jesus said “Suffer little children unto me, for the kingdom of heaven is made of such as these”
so you, and your flock may have lost your entry into the kingdom of heaven, for there you will find these 5 million little Arab children at the pearly gates asking you “Why?”
MUSLIM SOLUTIONS:
What Muslim solutions?
Yes, yes, I have heard all the apologists say the MSM is dominated by right wig nut jobs blah, blah balh now for 25 years.
Well, if you were to take the market value of all the media in the US, it is about $250 billion (one should not include the non-media assets of conglomerate “media” companies).
Kuwait, the UAE, Saudi Arabia - - the oil rich Arab “Muslim” countries, “guardians” of muslim shrines have $2.5 trillion in assets in the Western world including about $500 billion in US dollar bonds.
So if they were serious in getting out their “solutions” to the 300 million people of the US, and 400 million Western Europeans, all they have to do is liquidate 10% of their assets to gain control of the media.
I know I am going to pissed on by fanatical Christians,Jews and Muslims. i consider that a mark of intellectual distinction.
I am an Alexandrain Hellenist Humanist now. But unfortunately I was born in one of those three “Abrahamic” religions. So I am not an outsider criticising these three chosen peoples. I am former insider and I am sick of these three fighting over a peace of sand called Palestine/Israel for the last 60 years and having wasted more than $2 trillion over this quarrel over that time. during this time, 30,000 children starved to death every day from hunger.
That is 30,000 x 365 x 60 = 675 million children died because they did not have $1 per day in food!!!
Peace
I think the US lost its ‘moral high ground’ right after it dropped the second atomic bomb over Japan.
Hector: how “modernity” is so bad for humanity — whether for the soul, the body, or anything else. Compared to when, and where, and for how many?
“modernity” - when corporations took control over markets, goverments and people, e.g. ripping up the railroad tracks to build freeways and boulevards, etc. So nine out of ten workers in road building, car building/repairing, petro-production/security are wasting their time - oh they make plenty of moolah but their time is truly wasted. They might instead produce high quality food.
I haven’t heard the slightest peep coming out of the US church. Or should I say, the military-industrial-church complex? How do you spell that Christian worrier’s name, Hagee or something?
I haven’t read all the discussion, but I must say something here quickly before I’m off to work.
There is NO “moral high ground” in empire. There is only the look of moral high ground.
That said, priests of the Anglican Church raped thousands of Native children in Canada, and, like other global churches, undoubtedly worldwide. Here, I will deal with just the Canadian Natives. This IS KNOWN by the heirarchy, and undoubtedly by this guy as well. They were sued and held up the lawsuit in the courts for years with the hopes that many, if not all, the Natives who were suing them would die. Many did. One I know committed suicide from damage caused by the abuse. That is not “moral high ground.” The U.S. and UK never had moral high ground, just a mass deception as to their criminal activities to the world and those who benefit from empire. Empire is there to kill and destroy and steal. The Anglican Church was just as much a part of that as the UK political system that set it up. This man shouldn’t be pointing fingers, he should CLEAN HIS HOUSE and work to bring about real justice, but he won’t, because he benefits greatly from empire himself.
if he does not mind being on the “no fly” list, it is alright with me.
So, Tony Blair trumpets his christianity and says the lethal, criminal actions he engaged in were prompted by his faith. God, presumably, told him to go ahead and start on a path which would lead to the deaths of a million Iraqis. For this he is praised, paid huge amounts to talk about it, and interviewed at length by official media outlets like the BBC (currently engaged in providing him with a platform on which he wishes to sanctify himself).
Rowan Williams tells the blunt truth about US imperialism (yes, Americans always get their knickers in a twist about this, since their national identity is built on the myth that they overthrow empires, rather than impose them. However, we Europeans are recovering from our past madness and we know an Empire when we see it). For this he is traduced, sneered at, condenscended to, threatened and most defintely not offered prime time tv slots in which to put his case.
Christianity is a weird old thing. But then it was invented by human beings, who are weird themselves.
We lost the moral high ground almost a year before 9/11 when we allowed a man who hadn’t won the election to be installed as President! We all should have been in the streets demanding every last vote in Florida be counted if they had to conduct a whole new election. The Supreme Court should have never been allowed to decide it. It was partisan and everyone knew how they would rule. I watched after 9/11 as this country descended into it’s own self made hell worse than anything I could have dreamed up. With McCarthyite Bush at the helm. And it’s been steadily getting worse under the head of the Crime Family Bush! I am well aware the US had a superior attitude long before then. But, we were a half way civilized people. We can no longer claim that. I am like the guy who made the comment he wants to puke when he sees a ‘God Bless America’ bumper sticker. If God has blessed America so much why did he inflict a fascist President upon us? If ever I have seen a man who qualifies for the Antichrist Bush is it. I am no longer proud to be an American! Under this man politics has been reduced to a nasty cat fight! The airwaves are flooded with right wing venom daily. He regularly takes our tax dollars to support hate that his religion promotes! We have descended into our private hell with a vicious Christian Fundamentalist as our leader. The people who claim to have all the moral’s in this country have liberally none. As far as they are concerned anything goes that serves their selfish purpose. But, our nation is currently in their grip! No one seems to have the desire to get rid of this bunch. I have no doubts the next election will bring another fascist Republican to power to continue Bush’s failed policies. Because the American public has been do dumbed down by the right wing venom Fox News that they no longer see what is right and what is wrong. Much less care. They buy into the Republican rhetoric going to the polls to slit their own throats. So I don’t have much faith left in the American people to do the right thing and demand better of elected officials.
Peacemaker____AMEN, Brother (or sister)
suhail_shafi November 25th, 2007 1:59 pm
Good Man ! God Bless you Archbishop
I agree completely.
That’s the problem with me. I post a comment too quickly, and then I get a second thought, which is: how come this man of God did not open his mouth when Tony Blair was deciding to become a partner in crime?
Some good comments here, but a few caveats:
1) simplistic reductionism that conflates all religion and judges that projected illusion says more about the conflator than about ‘religion’ as a human phenomenon.
2) The Archbishop of Canterbury is not a member of the Roman Catholic hierarchy. Anglicans are a Protestant denomination. This is not to say that Protestants do not include child molesters. It is to say that blasting child-molesting Roman Catholic priests in a comment about the Archbishop of Canterbury is as odd as damning dogs in a comment on an article about cats (yes, they’re both domesticated mammals, but….)
3) Those parsing the Archbishop’s position on the basis of one article in the UK Telegraph need to be aware that the Telegraph’s editorial slant is equivalent to that of the USA’s Wall Street Journal. The Telegraph is the UK news organ of the conservative hereditary peerage and the corporate and financial elite. Rowan Williams is as unlikely to get a fair representation in the Telegraph as Susan Sarandon is to be fairly treated by the WSJ.
4) Some context may also help folks make a more accurate assessment: When Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Wales, was selected to be Archbishop of Canterbury, the other person on the short list was the bishop of a powerful London Cathedral. This bishop was African, and would’ve been the first black Archbishop of Canterbury. He was also a conservative-leaning Evangelical.
If that bishop had been selected, the Anglican church would’ve lined up alongside USA Right Wing fundamentalists in support for the Iraq war, and the Episcopal Church of the USA would already have been kicked out of the Anglican communion for ordaining gays and women.
I, for one, am very grateful for Rowan Williams and for the US Presiding Bishop, Katherine Jefferts-Schori. I encourage Common Dreams readers to explore the writings of both. I predict you will be surprised and impressed as you gain a more complete understanding of their thoughts and lives.
Pax,
Peach Mcd in Durham NC
Intelligent Episcopalian
Folks, we ain’t seen nothing yet. John 16:2 states,”…In fact, the hour is coming when everyone that kills you will imagine he has rendered a sacred service to God.” Now, we haven’t seen the “everyone” stage, quite yet. But, from the looks of world events,….. it’s getting pretty close!
When Christianity joined forces with Constantine and the Romans in 313; that was the beginning of the neo-christianity.
After that their new image was as warrior Christians!
Not to go too far off on this tangent, but there are Catholics in the U.S. who oppose the war. (The Catholic church is bigger than the hierarchy/the bishops.) Check out Pax Christi USA, www.paxchristiusa.org. Last weekend at the SOAW vigil in Georgia, Pax Christi hosted a powerful panel on the “Human Costs of the Iraq War”: http://www.paxchristiusa.org/news_Events_more.asp?id=1303
Read the Pax Christi International statement on the war: http://www.paxchristiusa.org/news_Events_more.asp?id=1319
I’ve little respect for high churchmen. It took this one 5 years to speak out, so now all I say is “DUH!!”
What took him so long?
At this juncture all his pronouncements have achieved is to further stoke the fires of hatred towards America, and encourage armchair politicians to dig up unsavoury elements of both Britain’s and America’s past history. To what purpose?
What possible good can any of this do? Is George W. Bush suddenly going to say “OOOoooh - The Archbishop of Canterbury is right - get the troops home NOW!” ?
I bring great empowering and excellent N E W S:
Our belief in the systematic bought-and-paid-for inattention of the mass media may in fact be an illusion and gov’t hype to completely dis-empower us to “work the system”., as evidence points to what they’ve actually been doing - and it’s “simple” repetitive phones calls and threats to hurt circulation, not total subjugation!
OK, it might be simple, but that is hardly the same as easy, right?
Please follow this link here, for ‘Confessions of “an editor who ran Bush propaganda”‘, where in summary that editor states that:
Wow, isn’t insidiously clever to make us think we :
(1.) Have a liberal minding media, but then
(2.) Convince us that it’s really not going to speak the TRUTH, but
(3.) it still may be POSSIBLE to find truth again, if we finesse it as well as the shrub’s SHOCK troops do, as they’re clearly massively funded and organized for the ‘duration’.
(4.) The re-Thuglicans likely have a quite distributed tag-team fon tree for each media outlet ALL across the globe, and duplication of pressuring (to own editor) would only improve their (or OUR ODDs) for impact.
(5.) OK, don’t even bother with FauxNews, but maybe ‘the denuded emperor pix’ will leak out?
What GRASS ROOTS ACTION does it take from any of US?
_a._ Any person willing to call, and call again (watching the news wires, and being aware each day)
_b._ Heavy hitter progressive thinkers that will ACT (like STARS, Media celebrities, actors, chamber Commerce, talkers) with real influence, and or patience.
_c._ Lots of ‘cold calls’ in attempts to find each media
_d._ Attempt to convert retrenched re-Thuglicans as “double-agents” for TRUTH, as they know who to call
Like I said initially, this is SIMPLE, but it’s hardly EASY.
We ALL can Go for IT, as we deserve the best media that OUR money (remember WE are the actual circulation- right?) can influence and buy.
P.S. Thanks to inspiration posts by DEMETRIA, URTHSONG (please keep singing 4 US), SAFIYAH, AYMON (one of the sharpest minds we have), PEACHMCD (simplistic reductionism that conflates all religion and judges…, more please), and TIJUANA (please consider that the WARs on European soil, were ALL fought by ALL - there was/is no escape - and their shared wisdom is something sorely needed by the US’s inflated and idiotic HUBRIS that we know about WAR - sorry wrong channel. When several US cities are fire-bombed into oblivion - and millions of our family member die - then I will listen to you talk about the European’s ideas)
Namaste
__ __ __ __ We must be the change
__ __ __ __ we wish to see in the world __ Gandhi
It does a world of good to Rowan Williams, if he again reads the history of America, and British colinial rule in India. He continues to perpetuate the myth of “beneficial ideology”: “It is one thing to take over a territory and the pour energy and resources in to administering it and normalising it. Rightly or wrongly, that’s what the British Empire did in India.”
He should be ashamed to continue to perpetuate such a lie. It is a shame to the very office he holds. Did British Empire invade other territories without expecting any benefit? What about slavery, and plunder of the wealth of these territories? Didn’t it plunder India’s wealth? Britain still possesses part of India’s wealth. For example: Kohinoor diamond. He has forgotten the ravaged colonial peoples who for centuries endured summary justice, unending economic oppression, distortion of their social lives, and a recourseless submission that was the function of unchanging European superiority. Rowan Williams will not confess the violent history of British colonialism, and the ravaging of the lives and property of the colonised. Because the Christian Church had (and is still) colluded with the British Imperial power. The Anglican Church itself has become another papacy in order to control Christian churches around the world.
-The second thing is: he mentioned about “the modern definition of humanity”. My question is: has the West (or the US) in any time in history had an UNBIASED definition of humanity? Its definition of humanity is clearly expressed by the French advocate of colonialism Jules Harmand: “It is necessary, then, to accept as a principle and point of departure the fact that there is a hierarchy of races and civilizations, and that we belong to the superior race and civilization, still recognizing that, while superiority confers rights, it imposes strict obligations in return. The basic legitimation of conquest over native peoples is the conviction of our superiority, not merely our mechanical, economic, and military superiority, but OUR MORAL SUPERIORITY. OUR DIGNITY RESTS ON THAT QUALITY, AND IT UNDERLIES OUR RIGHT TO DIRECT THE REST OF HUMANITY.”
Rowan Williams statement about India and Iraq perpetuates this LIE.
- Rowan Williams should also know the history of America. The US did not lose its moral high ground after 9/11, BUT AT THE TIME OF ITS VERY FOUNDATION AS A COUNTRY. It lost its moral ground when it laid its foundation as a country on the blood of innocent Native Americans, the owners of the land.
-Rowan Williams should know the truth that the US and Britain invaded Iraq and butchered more than a million of Iraqis in order to plunder its OIL.
- Finally, I would like to ask Rowan Williams two questions: 1. Why did it take the (the morally superior?)Anglican church few centuries to acknowledge its involvement in Slave Trade?
2. Why is only a person, who belongs to a particular race, appointed as Archbishop of Canterbury? In the history of the church, why the chuch has never appointed a person of DIFFERENT SKIN COLOUR? Isn’t this same even in the appointment of Pope of the Roman Catholic Church?
every time i hear a religious leader speak out on this fiasco, it makes feel like going to the toilet and tossing my dinner. what a sick bunch.
I, for one, care nothing at all for what any “cleric” has to say. They are self-aggrandizing superstitionists.
There are, however, people I respect who say the same things this guy says about certain of our US policies, but who also recognize the blot on humanity that radical Islam is (as this guy in a clown costume ignores). Sort of like one snake-oil salesman won’t criticize another: professional courtesy, I suspect.
Bravo for the Archbishop of Canterbury’s candid and very important comment on the situation in Iraq.I recently began attending, along with my wife, the Episcopal church where our daughter, son-in-law, and grandson attend. I am extremely pleased to read this state by the Archbishop. I have found so few mainline churches have the guts and gumption to speak out on issues of war and peace. As an anguished American, I appreciate any common sense that Britons or any other non-Americans speak out concerning American transgression and crimes against humanity. The U.S. and Israel are the two rogue nations with ruthless occupation policies. The U.S. is the rogue nation as it plays the role of sole super-power world policeman. Praise God for church leaders such as Rowan Williams as they speak truth to power!
Flint Marble
peachmcd,
I stand corrected, I did not realize this was a protestant bishop speaking. But what is the difference? The protestant religion was dreamed up by King Henry the Eighth in the form of the Church of England if my historical recollection serves me right. The motive? King Henry wanted to be free of the influence of the cruel Pope of Rome. He later invaded the peaceful monasteries, melted their lead roofs, and turned them into cannon. This lead, of course, to more bloodshed between the two power-hungry Christian sects than the world had ever seen in recorded European history. A millennium of intolerance and fanaticism ensued right up to the present day.
But I concede that religion has been part of every civilization since time began. It no doubt has some function in comforting the weak-minded and the downtrodden. I simply maintain that “All religion is a mental disorder.” - apologies to Bill Maher. It is dreamed-up fantasy, provided as a means of political control, and an excuse for justifying mass murder and torture.
This is what Christianity really is when you drop that money into the offering plate.
I know it hurts: to read history or to follow the church’s money trail all the way to Bush’s “faith based initiative’s” (non-audit able, untaxed, undocumented arms purchases made in the name of your Lord and Savior.)
I’m sorry I have to spell it out for you like this, but it’s for your own growth. I will google and provide references to these allegations if asked.
pacplyer
deepa,
excellent post imho. Excellent. (others, even peachmcd [touche] were great posts as well.)
The sooner we Americans start facing the truth of who we really are, the sooner we will understand how we got in this mess, and what we have to do to get out of it.
pacplyer
Average American
Semi-Agnostic (lost my faith due to man’s inhumanity in the name of religion)
PACPLAYER - your history is almost correct.
It was the Lutherans that 1st broke free from Rome, when Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses — in the town of Wittenberg, Germany, on October 31, 1517 — to the door of his church.
As to when the Anglicans made their move, I don’t recall, otherwise good information: thanks.
Namaste
__ __ __ __ We must be the change
__ __ __ __ we wish to see in the world __ Gandhi
aymon November 26th, 2007 2:54 am
“GAIL:
Your Islamophobia is showing through dear. Also, please define “DEMOCRACY” and then show whether the US and Israel are “democracies”. I will then fervently try to get the Nobel Prize for BS.”
Wrong, Aymon. My distaste for religious fundamentalism is showing through….. among all religions….. dear!
Democracy, as I was taught in school, is a form of government in which the people rule. Unfortunately, this straitforward definition of Democracy has not only been debated for centuries, its simplicity has been altered “primarily” by the perceptions of religious and economic fundamentalists whose concepts of freedom and equality have been grossly limited to encompass their own self-centered belief systems and interests.
I have NO attachment to any fundamentalist religious or economic doctrine! In my personal opinion, fundamentalism is and always has been destructive to Democracies and the human race.
Gail its not Shi’a law thats an Islamic sect its Sharia law so yes your ignorance is showing through.
““It is one thing to take over a territory and then pour energy and resources in to administering it and normalising it. Rightly or wrongly, that’s what the British Empire did in India, for example.’
What egregious sophistry : saying the British Empire is better than the American Empire is like saying one serial killer is ‘better’ than the other just because he or she murdered fewer people .
This man is a joke . A woolly headed liberal , with thinly veiled racist tendencies - he presides over a doctrinally moribund, spiritually arid , soon-to-be -extinct Anglican Communion .
Clearly ,the fact that he ranks just behind the Royals in the Order of Precedence of the UK - (which ,come to think of it ,is really little more than a latter-day Ruritania ) - has gone to his head.
It would be far better if he ’sticks to his knitting’ - which ,by all accounts, seems to be writing erudite papers on the works of George Herbert , William Blake and Feodor Dostoevsky .
Instead of setting himself up as the Apologist of the British Empire .
deepa: “Why did it take the (the morally superior?)Anglican church few centuries to acknowledge its involvement in Slave Trade?”
Very true . However Dr. Williams very cleverly managed to work into the sermon he delivered in Westminster Abbey , a very clear diatribe against India’s caste system.
This was a brilliant masterstroke on his part . In one fell swoop ,Dr. Williams craftily managed to deflect attention from ,and water down the sheer outrage and inhumanity of slavery . ( An outrage that his forebears were very likely complicit in .)
Can a leopard ever lose its spots . Or a white Brit ever shed his deep-rooted Colonial mentality . Or transcend his atavistic belief in his innate superiority.