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Dark Green
This is what happens sometimes when you play God:
"Birds dropped from the air. The sky rained mud. And, as men from the rig struggled to save themselves from the aftermath of (the) explosion . . . the Gulf of Mexico itself caught on fire."
The Washington Post, covering a federal inquiry into the Deepwater Horizon oil spill, summarized the scene, described by witnesses on a nearby supply ship, as "almost Biblical" - which is sort of a comic-book expression these days, but conjures up a moment of superstitious awe that, God knows, seems appropriate. This is love of nature stood on its head: nature as (wow!) spectacle. What a symbol for the profound alienation of our times.
And we're all caught up in this crisis of faith, no matter where we position ourselves on the political spectrum. No matter how comfortable we are, no matter how securely gated our community, we live with profound insecurity, at the event horizon, you might say, of awareness: Civilization cannot go on this way. Our way of life is unsustainable. If we don't destroy ourselves with our own nuclear-armed self-hatred, "nature" (as though this were a force separate from us) will do the job for us.
All of
which brings me to the Dark Mountain Project, a growing movement out of
the U.K. that challenges mainstream environmentalism, which it sees as
hopelessly compromised, collusive with global capitalism and the myth
of material progress, and tied to technical (rather than spiritual)
solutions for the profound structural contradictions of Western
civilization.
"But there is no Plan B," reads the Dark Mountain manifesto, "and the bubble, it turns out, is where we have been living all the while. The bubble is that delusion of isolation under which we have laboured for so long. The bubble has cut us off from life on the only planet we have, or are ever likely to have. The bubble is civilisation."
Civilization is far more fragile, the manifesto continues, than humanity in its arrogance is capable of acknowledging. Its foundation is planted in the planet's finite supply of coal, oil and gas: "millions upon millions of years of ancient sunlight, dragged from the depths of the planet and burned with abandon." Upon this base we have built, over the millennia, "a jumble of supporting horrors: battery chicken sheds; industrial abattoirs; burning forests; beam-trawled ocean floors; dynamited reefs; hollowed-out mountains; wasted soil. . . .
"We are the first generations born into a new and unprecedented age - the age of ecocide."
The Dark Mountain Project's controversial conclusion is that the collapse of our global civilization is both inevitable and necessary. Attempts to "save" it with green technology - more wind farms! more solar panels! - are, therefore, wasted efforts that ultimately feed the forces of greed and exploitation and become, therefore, part of the problem, not the solution.
Step one, then, seems to be that we must surrender to the inevitability of the collapse of our unsustainable civilization. "And so we find ourselves, all of us together, poised trembling on the edge of a change so massive that we have no way of gauging it."
Step two, as far as I can tell, is pretty vague - and tangled in paradox. As critics of the Dark Mountain Project have pointed out, its "dark green" proponents are as much a part of the problem as the corporate greens, by virtue of the fact that they're Internet-based, computer-dependent, woven as thoroughly into this unsustainable culture as everyone else. For instance, they're holding a festival at the end of May in northern Wales; my guess is that most of the attendees will not be riding bicycles to get there.
I say this without sarcasm and in dark green solidarity with most, if not all, of the Dark Mountain Project's analysis of our situation. Paradox is woven through the human condition. There's no greater illusion, no tighter spiritual cul-de-sac, than the pursuit of ideological purity.
If we are indeed poised on the edge of massive and unprecedented change, and I believe we are, anyone pushing a comprehensive, detailed agenda of what to do next is probably a charlatan. I agree that the "solution" is not primarily technological. We have to give up the idea of being in control of the natural world; more to the point, we have to stop drawing the distinction between human beings and nature. We have to figure out how to reconnect with and befriend the rest of the planet and surrender, like an addict in a twelve-step program, to a higher power - to the universe itself.
And in the process of surrender, we will discover, I believe, not a dependence on but an interdependence with, all that we have consumed, exploited and taken for granted these last half-dozen millennia. We're part of the cosmos, but we have to learn to listen to it.
57 Comments so far
Show AllThank you Jesus, Krishna, Yahweh, Allah, Buddah, Gaia, Great Mother and all the guys down at the social club.
Let's all get Wu Wu.
Take off your blinders, you are trapped in darkness if these words bring out such negativity. There was no mention of organized religion and to lump Gia in with them illustrates the disconnect. You mocked your planet, the planet that feeds, clothes and gave of itself to make you. To compare it to the guys at a social club is beyond disconnect and into the absurd realm of self flagellation. You are mocking your own existence. Read this piece again. Give it more thought.
Sioux Rose
BUCK: Thank you for being a voice and witness to the sacred. Those that mock the understanding that all life is sentient, sacred, and connected are probably those who feel very awkward in facing the great mystery, and the fact that free will only goes so far. It exists more or less in the mythic zone of free trade.
EPHRAIM: I've read Krishnamurti, and my lawyer-x was a HUGE fan of his, so we had many animated discussions on our understanding of his books and lectures.
Excellent, excellent, excellent!
From a commentary by J. Krishnamurti
"To live is to find out for yourself what is true, and you can do this only when there is freedom, when there is continuous revolution inwardly, within yourself.
"But you are not encouraged to do this; no one tells you to question, to find out for yourself what God is, because if you were to rebel you would become a danger to all that is False. Your parents and society want you to live safely, and you also want to live safely. Living safely generally means living in imitation and therefore in fear. Surely, the function of education is to help each one of us to live freely and without fear, is it not? And to create an atmosphere in which there is no fear requires a great deal of thinking on your part as well as on the part of the teacher, the educator.
"Do you know what this means - what an extraordinary thing it would be to create an atmosphere in which there is no fear? And we must create it, because we see that the world is caught up in endless wars; it is guided by politicians who are always seeking power; it is a world of lawyers, policemen and soldiers, of ambitious men and women all wanting position and all fighting each other to get it. Then there are the so-called saints, the religious gurus with their followers; they also want power, position, here or in the next life. It is a mad world, completely confused, in which the communist is fighting the capitalist, the socialist is resisting both, and everybody is against somebody, struggling to arrive at a safe place, a position of power or comfort. The world is torn by conflicting beliefs, by caste and class distinctions, by separative nationalities, by every form of stupidity and cruelty - and this is the world you are being educated to fit into. You are encouraged to fit into the framework of this disastrous society; your parents want you to do that, and you also want to fit in.
"To discover what is true demands freedom from tradition, which means freedom from all fears."
We are on the cusp of great change. We are afraid. We cling to the shore in fear of being swept away by the river. We must learn to let go - it is the shore that is killing us.
Krishnamurti came to the West spoke Truth and how many listened, really listened?
Very few if any. You can take a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. It is not so much in striving to live free of fear as that too becomes a trap. Fear of fear does not beget freedom. Rather it follows naturally by living in awareness of what limits the relative relationship of identification as it arises. Only then can one live fully present without feeling constrained by a demarcated field of limited consciousness. Only then can one know real peace and equanimity in the absence of need and hence free from fear.
I'm amazed someone actually brought up Krishnamurti. I spent a good number of years studying his teachings, and once attended a series of talks he gave, about a year before he died. I spent many useless hours and days regaling others with the importance of his teachings, and finally gave up expecting anyone to listen or care. Only those who discover his totally unique perspective, on their own, seem open to paying attention to his work. There's been no one else like him in our lifetimes. A lot of his stuff gets repetitive, but his best talks (and that's usually the form his books take) go to the very root of what consciousness is and how it actually works, how we don't allow it to function holistically, and the destructive consequences of our collective refusal to arrive at a state of awareness that he simply called intelligence. His teachings are light years beyond all political discussion, so naturally he's dismissed as a "guru" or worse by self-styled "practical" types. Chronic political junkies are completely incapable of comprehending anything he says. I did give up years ago expecting more than a tiny handful of Americans to ever even begin to grasp what he was trying to get others to see.
there are many amazon books under his name, can you recommend 1 or 2? thx
lucky,
I have never read Krishnamurti, at least, not one of his books.
What I know of him is very limited, so I cannot recommend anything. If you want, Google him and read and listen to him. Really listen to what he has to say.
His life was about talking to us, as if he were talking to each of us as individuals. From what I get, he was telling us that it is ALL up to us. It is all up to EACH of us. Life, is up to each of us. IOW, we need to stop waiting for others and DO things ourselves.
Krishnamurti shunned the notion of gurus. His message was to have an inward revolution where we break free of the notion of waiting for anyone else to tell us what to do - we already know what to do.
Simple, but not easy.
I need to do this.
although krishnamurti was against gurus, it's worth reading him. i recommend a collection called "the book of life" which collects short sections from his writings/talks and organizes them according to themes, spread out over the course of one for each day of the year.
truly the only path, in my experience, is the path itself.
Sioux Rose
TED, BUCK, DEVA: Great posts! WE are alive in a dead men walking world!
"an atmosphere in which there is no fear"
'Looking Backward' by Bellamy (1894), spells some of that out for me...
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/25439
Nature
Nature is
Nature is everything
Nature is everything known
Nature is everything known and unknown
Nature is everything known and unknown in the Universe
and beyond
Nature is alive, growing, changing.
There are no laws of Nature, only observed tendencies
Light turns into dust
Dust into Caterpillars
Caterpillars into Butterflies
Butterflies into diamonds
Diamonds into Light
Stay calm your new meds will be here shortly.
DNR Order on file. RIP
I share the pessimism and negativity. Yet, I don't think that the "vagueness and paradox" equals "it's hopeless to organize" or whatever. It's just that there are no easy answers, no silver bullets, no sure fire strategies. There are many movements out there trying different things. There is the transition town movement for one. Because we can't predict the future, and because we can't decide for someone else what path they should take, we can't predict or declare which path or strategy is really going to work.
We have to in some sense give in, but not to hopelessness and apathy, and not to waiting for the monkey in the sky, but for lack of a better phrase, to give in to the force. We can't control this process any more than we can control nature. It's beyond us. We have to accept that we are human and that there are things beyond our control. However, we should each try to find our own path to making the world a better place. The force is inside you. Look there and let it be your guide. We have to trust that there are more good people than bad, and that everyone has a piece to the puzzle to contribute.
I really loved that onion piece about Chomsky taking the day off to enjoy life. You can't let the negative rule you. On the other hand, we all can do something, even if it's small. And don't expect me or anyone else to tell you what that thing should be.
Thanks to CD for the forum.
I can't handle another one of these endless empty tracts that leave us all yawning.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
Waste is a terrible thing to mind.
I'm not yawning.
Now, another senseless tirade about how bad Obama is...yawwwnnnnnnn...
>>Do you know what this means - what an extraordinary thing it would be to create an atmosphere in which there is no fear? And we must create it, because we see that the world is caught up in endless wars
Fear of nature is pervasive in our modern Societies. We are taught to FEAR everything.
While Indingenous peoples will still take new born babes and expose them to the Sun , asking for the Suns blessings on the Child , our more "Advanced" Societies declare the Sun an enemy and we are to protect our children from its harmful rays.
Go down to any beach and you will see people 100 pounds overweight with overweight children all of them drinking pop as water is not safe and eating hot dogs while they lathe their flesh with Suncscreen SPF 30 for their "protection". Never minding little Johnny is already overweight and will face a lifetime of illness from the processed food that he eats, we MUST protect him from the suns evil rays!
On the side of every bottle of this sunscreen lotion a list of chemicals developed by our Science with names most people can not pronounce. These chemicals have all been shown to be proven carcinogens yet they merrily smear it on to prevent "Cancer". The side of the bottles warns against taking this stuff internally. Has anyone ever died from swallowing sunlight?
Now we are told that the rise in many rates of cancer due to the lack of Vitamin D which comes from you guessed it, sunlight.
We have made NATURE the enemy. We kill everything form Coyotes to wolves to bees and grasshoppers because they are all "out to get us" , using guns and our Chemicals, either of which are a greater danger to us then that mean old Grizzly bear.
What drives this all? It a desire to make profit. It clever really. Some 6 billion plus people are exposed to the SUNS rays every day, and its free. There is no conceivable way to make money off people using Sunlight to warm their skin.
So what to do ? "Hey it causes cancer...that Sun will KILL you.." "Put this stuff on and you will be "protected"
Now I am not stating the Suns Rays harmless to us. I am simply stating the system HYPES the dangers posed just as it does with "terrorism" in order to fuel the "need" to buy products for our "protection".
"Indingenous peoples will still take new born babes and expose them to the Sun"
They also exposed them on hillsides to be eaten by wild animals (classical Greece). Or they tucked them into mountain caves to freeze to death (Incas). I prefer sunblock.
Only shows you have more to fear from other people then from nature does it not?
Sunscreen will not help you there.
Well you have some good points but sunburns, especially severe ones, are proven greatly incresae the risk of skin cancer.
I only use sun BLOCK which is titanium dixide based. "Sunscreens" may very well be cancerous.
I don't think the harm from sun exposure is hyped, but sunscreens the solution employed by most is definitely the wrong way to go.
>>Titanium dioxide has recently been classified by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) as an IARC Group 2B carcinogen ''possibly carcinogen to humans''. Titanium dioxide accounts for 70% of the total production volume of pigments worldwide. It is widely used to provide whiteness and opacity to products such as paints, plastics, papers, inks, foods, and toothpastes. It is also used in cosmetic and skin care products, and it is present in almost every sunblock, where it helps protect the skin from ultraviolet light.
http://www.ccohs.ca/headlines/text186.html
I will take my chances with sunlight . None of us are going to live forever in any case.
Sioux Rose
GW NORTH: I'd like to add to your post, most of which I agree with. About 4 years ago a friend turned me onto a DVD about Dr. Alberto Villoldo. He must be my spiritual soulmate. In any case, he began to speak about Indigenous myths of creation, especially those from South America. And he related that the Judeo-Christian concept of "the Garden of Eden" is the ONLY creation myth that sets up an antithetical relationship between human beings and nature. Of course what can also be readily extrapolated is the antithetical relationship to basic instinct, or human sexuality itself.
Before the Protestant sects came into being, it was the church of Rome that ruled Western culture, and ruled is the operative word given there was no legal separation between church and state. And woe to that European monarch that departed from "the papal program."
The Catholic Church holds a most insidious set of views about sexuality, and the rebound on that karma is being broadcast worldwide through the thousands of cases that involve the priestly misuse of young congregants and their flesh.
Sex is a powerful, primal force. What better way to control the masses than to turn them against their own instincts? A person who feels loved inside of a sexually invigorating relationship is often a powerful person. Do they really need anyone outside themselves telling them what God's will is? In a sense, they've already found paradise. Rajneesh put it this way, "And sometimes lovers have known what saints have not."
There is someone who appeared new (via screen name) who posted more than 30 items on the Hedges thread explaining why he advocates FOR a (Christian) theocracy in this nation. My arguments meant nothing, and so when I went biking last night I thought about this "conversation." The insight that came to me was this: the individual that advocates for a Christian style totalitarian arrangement is one who does not trust himself! Persons who are well balanced (however, given the mode of Western culture that is NOT the norm) do not need an outside authority to simulate Divine will for them. They do not need countless rules imposed from outside, rules they then can wield over others like a weapon (ideological or literal). It is evident that when persons are divorced from their basic instincts, they lose a significant inner compass. Wilhelm Reich wrote about this at length, and his conclusions were very threatening to Christianity (and the U.S under its moral conditioning), so he was done away with.
Even if a promiscuous society did result, which one would be worse for humanity and nature: lots of people "doing it" outside (now I sound like DUBET), or a nation laid to fiscal and moral waste due to its violent pursuit of other nations' resources (with all kinds of twisted sex hidden in real or virtual closets)? The legacy of the antithetical relationship between people and nature is seen in miles and miles of land and sea ravaged by lethal waste products, added to the gaping wound in the Gulf as the Earth Mother bleeds.
The Midas touch has morphed into its oily equivalent as the lust for black gold returns to us a curse that may render our crops and seafood tainted for generations. Heckuva a job, de-regulators and true believers of an anti-life ethos!
>>And he related that the Judeo-Christian concept of "the Garden of Eden" is the ONLY creation myth that sets up an antithetical relationship between human beings and nature
Thanks for that. I had never considered that before and it quite interesting.
A good post all round.
This article got me so churned up that I want to write like teddy, all jumbled clauses and random all-caps.
Koehler's argument is nonsense because he conflates the contemporary degenerate form of industrialization with civilization per se. I know enough history to realize that there is nothing desirable in a dark age. With nice irony, Koehler exemplifies his point about the sickness of contemporary society: Only such a society could romanticize the fall of civilization.
I have lupus. Where's my medication going to come from in your brave new dark-green world?
And another thing: Infant mortality. How many dead children is your eco-dystopia worth to you?
Don't expect people to give up civilization without a fight.
I sincerely regret that you suffer so.
The point being made here is that the laws of the universe will always prevail over the laws of civilization.
Yeah but the dark green interpretation of the laws of the universe is misanthropic, extreme and of no utility whatsoever.
Brief-and extremely well said.
I am inclined to agree with you.
I live in the wilderness and do not rely on any person or group to 'interpret' what I can witness for myself.
This week I returned to reading the Tao Te Ching. It was written approximately 2,500 years ago. This book is ascribed by tradition to Lao Tzu who explains the basic Taoist terms and concepts.
We have always been interdependent and will continue to be interdependent. This is the Yin-Yang
We are nature and it is us.
"Yin-Yang
The image consists of a circle divided into two teardrop-shaped halves - one white and the other black. Within each half is contained a smaller circle of the opposite color. The circle represents Unity out of which all of existence arises. The black and white halves within the circle represent feminine and masculine energies.
The curves and circles of the Yin-Yang symbol imply the ways in which Yin and Yang are mutually-arising, interdependent, and continuously transforming, one into the other. They are different, and distinct, yet one could not exist without the other, for each contains the essence of the other. Night becomes day, and day becomes night. Birth becomes death, and death becomes birth. Friends become enemies, and enemies become friends. Taoism teaches that such is the nature of everything in the relative world." - About.com
Still the best book I've ever read.
I agree.
Sioux Rose
LILY: Thanks for a most-excellent post. The balance has been forgotten, and what's driven mankind towards the edge is based primarily on this loss of understanding.
On the tele yesterday a conservation biologist from Cal Lutheran talked about the oil spill dispersants. They are more deadly than the oil to the coral reefs surrounding Florida. The reefs will be destroyed. He also said these reefs and their inhabitants produce many vital components for the battle against cancer and other serious illnesses. Thus the perpetual dilemma we will increasingly face: the cure is worse than the disease. All this to save Florida's touristy beaches and the rich's private playgrounds. In my own work trying to use oil- derived miracle materials to save and protect nature: being a " good greenie " and stop the overharvesting of SE Asian hardwood forests we ended up with the same bad cure. The trees were still cut and used to build the interior doors, cabintry, etc for wealthy busineesmen and opulent hotel chains around the world. The net results, again, the depletion of something vital that took thousands of years to create is destroyed in the wink of a historical eye. Our treasures; fresh air, good water and healthy food sources will be gone soon. Our technology will turn traitor and work against us. The quibbling over what to do first and who will lead us from this oncoming desolation is a waste of precious oxygen. The die has been cast. The wealthy have no plans to take any of us with them. They already have enough baggage handlers; thank you very much, anyway.
Thanks for your comment.
I spent my day writing letters in defense of the 'supposedly protected' pristine wilderness area near my home. The professional 'stewards' of the area have started down the slippery slope of destruction. Motorboats will be used in an enormous provincial park which prohibits the use of motorboats and has canoe/kayak ONLY regulations. These motorboats will be used to 'survey' the fish within the park. The research protocol not only violates the law regarding daily fishing limits, but results in fish mortality. In years past, non-lethal surveys have been conducted in this area. The great appeal of this park is that IT IS a Pristine Wilderness Area. Visitors from all over the world visit this park each summer in order to see what a Pristine Wilderness looks like. If all these international visitors can take only photos & leave only footprints, why can't researchers do the same?
How do you turn back the clock on petroleum slicks & dead fish?
linkwray - your comment has justified my efforts of the day.
Southern Illinois has a number of man made lakes carved into the Shawnee Hills. Some have no restrictions and are just like the highways and parking lots; overcrowded with lousy inconsiderate drivers and full of litter. Some are restricted to 10 hp motors. I prefer canoes and kayaks and am always disgusted when seeing the oily sheen gathered in an inlet by the wind. Don't get me started on the noise. Internal combustion engines and water do not mix.
Money and oil mix quite well, though. Having grown up where the Central and Great Plains join I have witnessed the destruction of an entire ecosystem from intense farming practises and recreational development. It really is all for the wealthy and their prodigy. The middle class has been squeezed out. The destruction continues and will until people kill the goose that laid the golden egg in the first place: Mother Nature!
Thank you, I suppose. Having spent a portion of my adult life trying to take what was inexpensive and plentiful and refine it to save what was scarse and rare it has been frustrating to watch what is called " progress ". I encourage you to continue to point out the conflict inherent in our collective natures. Please continue to point out the rule of Unintended Consequences. The failure of not heeding to this rule has created the groundwork necessary for the environmental disasters awaiting us. Sorry, I'm not more optimistic.
Let's ask Tom Bombadil what to do! He'll know!
"If we are indeed poised on the edge of massive and unprecedented change, and I believe we are, anyone pushing a comprehensive, detailed agenda of what to do next is probably a charlatan. I agree that the "solution" is not primarily technological. We have to give up the idea of being in control of the natural world; more to the point, we have to stop drawing the distinction between human beings and nature. We have to figure out how to reconnect with and befriend the rest of the planet and surrender, like an addict in a twelve-step program, to a higher power - to the universe itself."
Great article...I suggest anyone who is ready to surrender control and learn to live without destroying the mother ship join their local Transition initiative or start one in their community. Look up Transition network or Transition US. Its a grand experiment, but seems to be the only one that may actually work if enough of us get going.
Sioux Rose
Mr.Koehler concludes with: "We're part of the cosmos, but we have to learn to listen to it."
Yep. That's what I have been trying to teach for 30 plus years.
We are part of the cosmos, BE part of the cosmos. Or we will be, as Marcus Aurelius wrote,
a branch cut off from another and of necessity cut off from the whole tree.
Kerala, one of India's 26 states has almost the same population as California. Every citizen has health care and free public education through college. Kerala's birth rate is one of lowest on the planet. Its literacy rate and average life span about the same as the U.S. Kerala accomplishes these remarkable achievments in an economy (GDP) that is about 1/70th the size of California's. About 35% of every dollar collected in taxes in the state is returned to communities (wards) comprised of 1500 to 2500 people. Plans for roads, schools, cooperatives, clinics
and every imaginable enterprise to make life better for all are developed by the community in ward gatherings in which every citizen has a vote. Every rupee spent for a project is posted on a board at the project site . Since the inception of 'peoples planning' in 1996 more than a million homes have been built for the homeless. The accomplishments boggle the imagination.
I mention the example of Kerala because as the darkness overtakes us in the industrialized world, as we flounder looking for a way out, we must look between the cracks, even in unlikely places. Check out the 90 minute documentary
WHY KERALA, GRAMPA? www.tchamberlinmovies.com
I'm with you on this Roscoe. Capitalist Industry produces a great wealth of material things, unfortunately so much of that wealth ends up wasted on war, prisons and the conspicuous consumption of the wealthy.
I also disagree with dark green hopelessness. It's been obvious since the seventies that disrmamament, decentralized energy and food production, mass transit and zero population growth could solve most of the problems facing the USA and the world. The gipper put a serious hurting on alternative energy and began an accelerating downward spiral of arms bulidups and energy wars.
Do the dark greens hate themselves? I'm a human and I don't want to see humann civilization wiped out. Radical change is necessary but Revolution Not Extinction!
Maybe dark greenism is a kind of sour grapes. Believing that the collapse of human civilization is necessary and maybe desirable makes it easier to deal with the mounting evidence of the impending catastrophic systemic failure of capitalist industrialism.
Imagine alternatives that are filled with life and love and do what you can to move people closerr to that vision. That's my anthrocentric answer to the dark green shadow.
"Imagine alternatives that are filled with life and love and do what you can to move people closerr to that vision. That's my anthrocentric answer to the dark green shadow."
I'm with you in that vision, but draw the line at anthropocentrism. That is exactly what has gotten us to this point.
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The latest scam seeking to profit from the fear within the masses. Not unlike the MSM, MIC and Madison Avenue.
Believe me, I sympathize with the search for answers and a way out of the situation we find ourselves in, but this is just one more (temporary) diversion.
Once again, its all about the money. :)
am i out of place to ask why the people who see "systemic collapse" are pejoratively characterized as "fearful?".....my question is why isn't there a boisterous "teabag-like" response on the left?...honestly, why?.....peace
I answer your presumption laden question with one of my own:
Do the dark greens hate themselves? I'm a human and I don't want to see humann civilization wiped out. Radical change is necessary but Revolution Not Extinction! Workers of the world need to control the means of production in order to make society more equitable AND more sustainable. I wonder if Marx realized that he lived on a small planet.
Maybe dark greenism is a kind of sour grapes. Believing that the collapse of human civilization is necessary and desirable makes it easier to deal with mounting evidence of the impending catastrophic failure of capitalist industrialism.
Also, look at the millions of deaths caused by the Great Depression and subsequent wars. System collapse is deadly serious. perhaps the deaths of billions don't fill you with fear, but that position seems inhuman. Isn't this obvious?!!
dream joe...you talking to me?