Tyranny on Display at the Republican Convention
St. Paul is a window into our future. It is a future where, as one protester told me by phone, "people have been pepper-gassed, thrown on the ground by police who had drawn their weapons, had their documents seized and their tattoos photographed before being taken away to jail." It is a future where illegal house raids are carried out. It is a future where vans containing heavily armed paramilitary units circle and film protesters. It is a future where, as the protester said, "people have been pulled from cars because their license plates were on a database and handcuffed, thrown in the back of a squad car and then watched as their vehicles were ransacked and their personal possessions from computers to literature seized." It is a future where constitutional rights mean nothing and where lawful dissent is branded a form of terrorism.
The rise of the corporate state means the rise of the surveillance state. The Janus-like face of America swings from packaged and canned spectacles, from nationalist slogans, from seas of flags and Christian crosses, from professions of faith and patriotism, to widespread surveillance, illegal mass detentions, informants, provocateurs and crude acts of repression and violence. We barrel toward a world filled with stupendous lies and blood.
What difference is there between the crowds of flag-waving Republicans and the apparatchiks I covered as a reporter in the old East German Communist Party? These Republican delegates, like the fat and compromised party functionaries in East Berlin, all fawned on cue over an inept and corrupt party hierarchy. They all purported to champion workers' rights and freedom while they systematically fleeced, disempowered and impoverished the workers they lauded. They all celebrated the virtue of a state that was morally bankrupt. And while they played this con game, one that gave them special privileges, power and wealth, they unleashed their goons and thugs on all who dared to challenge them. We are not East Germany, but we are well on our way. An economic meltdown, another catastrophic terrorist attack on American soil, a war with Iran, and we could easily swing into an authoritarian model that would look very familiar to anyone who lived in the former communist East bloc.
A few of those arrested in St. Paul, including eight leaders of the RNC Welcoming Committee -- one of the groups organizing protests at the GOP convention in St. Paul -- now face terrorism-related charges. Monica Bicking, Eryn Trimmer, Luce Guillen Givins, Erik Oseland, Nathanael Secor, Robert Czernik, Garrett Fitzgerald and Max Spector could get up to seven and a half years in prison under the terrorism enhancement charge, which allows for a 50 percent increase in the maximum penalty. This is the first time criminal charges have been filed under the 2002 Minnesota version of the federal Patriot Act.
The Patriot Act, which was put in place as much to silence domestic opposition as to ferret out real terrorists, has largely lain dormant. It has authorized the government to monitor our phone conversations, e-mails, meetings and political opinions. It has authorized the government to shut down anti-war groups and lock up innocents as terrorists. It has abolished habeas corpus. But until now we have not grasped its full implications for our open society. We catch glimpses, as in St. Paul or in our offshore penal colonies where we torture detainees, of its awful destructive power.
The commercial media told us that what was important in St. Paul was happening inside the convention hall. The vapid interviews, the ridiculous soap opera sagas about Sarah Palin's daughter and the debate about whether John McCain or Barack Obama has proprietary rights to "Change" divert us from the truth of who we have become. You had to search out "Democracy Now!," TheUptake.org, Twin Cities Indymedia, I-Witness, along with a few other independent outlets, to see, hear or read real journalism from St. Paul.
It does not matter that the RNC Welcoming Committee describes itself as an "anarchist/anti-authoritarian" organization. We don't have to embrace a political agenda to protect the right to be heard. Shut down free speech and radicals only burrow deeper underground, splitting ossified political systems into fractured extremes. We may well end up with the Christian right on one side, with politicians like Sarah Palin providing an ideological veneer to a Christian fascism, and embittered leftist radicals who turn to violence on the other.
St. Paul was not ultimately about selecting a presidential candidate. It was about the power of the corporate state to carry out pre-emptive searches, seizures and arrests. It was about squads of police in high-tech riot gear, many with drawn semiautomatic weapons, bursting into houses. It was about seized computers, journals and political literature. It was about shutting down independent journalism, even at gunpoint. It was about charging protesters with "conspiracy to commit riot," a rarely used statute that criminalizes legal dissent. It was about 500 people held in open-air detention centers. It was about the rising Orwellian state that has hollowed out the insides of America, cast away all that was good and vital, and donned its skin to shackle us all.
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189 Comments so far
Show AllHaving grown up in Eastern Europe and seen the effects of a powerful and borderline fascist state on the general populous, I am quite frightened by the direction America is taking. My parents fled to America to avoid food lines, mandatory military service, constant govt surveillance, no social services or help for citizens or poor, constant fear of the state and imprisonment. So 20 years on from that day, it saddens me to see the signs of the same issues here will affect me probably in my lifetime. What saddens me more is what Chris H. says, and I agree with. The marginalization of any sort of movement to give voice to the oppressed by the state. Its to be expected though, all govts. gravitate towards the fascist on a long enough timeline. Its human nature. What boggles my mind is that this has been happening for thousands of years. From the Romans, to Austrian Empire, to British, now here. And the only way this can happen is by a uninvolved public/people. At some point in the process if the people get incited enough, and act together to peaceably protest every day, for as long as it takes. The cracks will show, and the path can be broken. But at some point it becomes too late, as we saw in MN we might be at that point where the state is too organized. So again, it really boggles my mind what is wrong with human nature and the human spirit to constantly over and over fall under this trap of strong (but fascist) leaders/men, or for that matter systems that those men represent (fascism, communism, ultra-nationalism, and in our case corporatism, etc). I will be wondering this for the rest of my life. How do nations' populations who have the privilege of history to refer to allow this to happen over and over (Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Franco's Spain, Thatcher's England, etc.) I just don't get it. Maybe someone smarted than me can tell me.... Cause to me that's the secret. How do you stop people from falling into the same trap over and over. The facts are on the side of the people, but the state has that special way of hiding them or overwhelming them with propaganda. And the people keep on buying it. I just don't get it.
William John Cox
For interest on the subject, please see: ROBOCOPS: PROFESSIONAL POLICING OF POLITICAL PROTEST, http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10128
here's a great article from thepeoplesvoice.org
couldn't have said it better myself. democracy for dummies...
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2008/09/10/p28511#more28511
"...our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor."
Reality suggests that the American People are Fascists. If you wish for a revolution it will be the Fascists who rise up, not exactly what you had in mind.
Under Bush, Fascism walks in America in the daylight, yet nothing is done. The abuses and disrespect for the American People will expand until a full blown totalitarian state exists here, we are close now. The American Congress appeals to Fascists for financial support. The Police and military are naturally inclined to support Fascism. Now the Military can operate within our borders and private corporate armies are large and growing. Prison camps are being erected and the Constitution is violated without consequence. Protesters are being jailed as terrorists, and Christians cheer. All of your emails and phone conversations are being recorded so that if necessary a case for terrorism can be fabricated against you. Dissent is terrorism now. We are witnessing the death of freedom in America. The American death culture has succeeded.
Prescott Sheldon Bush helped Hitler to power and organized an army with the intent of taking over the government from President Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
George Herbert Walker Bush was entrenched in CIA when President John Fitzgerald Kennedy was murdered, but couldn't remember where he was on Friday, November 22, 1963. Later, when he was vice president, the son of a family friend attempted to kill President Ronald Reagan.
President? George Walker Bush has almost realized his grandpappy's dream.
Sorry but it isn't that easy. Prescott Bush was doing what GM, Ford, Chrysler, AT&T, Standard Oil and a whole lot of other corporations were doing in the 1930's to appease Hitler. Even the great reformer FDR in 1938 called Mussolini, "...that splendid Italian gentleman."
Yes what Prescott Bush did was collaboration with Nazism but consider that GM's representative James D Mooney practiced his "Hitler Salute" in a Berlin hotel suite mirror on May 1, 1993. He was to attend an extravaganza put on by Hitler. The next day on May the 2nd he got to put into practice that arm pump salute in the process of negotiating a contract between GM's German Opel division and Hitler as part of the Nazi's plan to rearm Germany. GM's Opel division built the Blitz truck that supplied about 50% of the troop transport trucks in the German Whermacht.
Then there was Standard Oil's duplicity with German chemical manufacturer I. G. Farben who was supplying the Germans with the know-how and capability for producing Tetra-ethyl lead, an octane booster in auto and aviation fuel that prevents pre-ignition or "engine knock", that allowed Germany's Luftwaffe to fly unfettered and provided a significant tactical advantage.
AT&T helped build Hitler's smart bombs and built its communications networks.
The list goes on and on but the real story is not just Prescott Bush, though he should take his share of the blame, but the vast amount of assistance provided by US corporations to rearming Germany.
Bring America Back !!!! yes Parallax==can you point to a link or source where GHWB is saying he cant remember his whereabouts??
***So tragedy does seem to surround the Bush Brand,, Of course there's the
other brother who had the security contracts at both World Trade Center and Dulles International Airport.
***Lil Bro Jebby is just waiting in the wings. If McCain gets in watch Jebby get appointed to a nice position, to keep him in line to continue the Dynasty.
**There's got to be a few loose screws with anybody who jumps out of
a perfectly good aircraft.
They claim that 9/11 was Bin Laden’s job. If true, he sure has been successful in changing America.
Do you know why Republicans picked the moose-eating Palin who’s got a long roster of liabilities?
Because they wanted the opposition (if we can call it that) to empty their holsters. And then just a couple of days before Election Day the Republicans would drop her and pick a worse character. By then, there would hardly be any time left for anybody to expose the new whacko. That is Karl Rove’s October surprise. I wonder why nobody ever thought about this. Why else would Republicans choose a moose eater to be a heartbeat away from presidency?
If plural of goose, geese, then moose, meese?
There are many comments here and I don't have time to read all of them, so I don't know if I am repeating any other remarks already made.
I was appalled at the utter disregard for freedom of expression at the RNC. Even more appalling were the "preemptive arrests." It is not too far a stretch to see that we are becoming a fascist police state ala twenty-first century USA. Police breaking into people's homes with semi-automatic weapons drawn, ransacking and taking their property, arresting and charging them for felonious acts which amounted to little more than potentially causing a ruckus at the RNC, special targetting of journalists who would act as witnesses of police behavior and who would give voice to protesters and dissenters, etc. constitute shocking violations of First and Fourth amendment protections. Of course the authorities labelled these groups "anarchist and anti-authoritarian." These are meaningless labels, but the fact that the authorities believe that they can be used to justify the treatment of these people shows the extent to which American society has degraded with respect to the Constitution.
I havent read ALL of teh posts, either. But yours is excellent and gets a thumbs up from me. Have they called th4em "enemy combatants" yet?
Voting for the lesser of two evils, is still voting for evil.
"They allow you" to peacefully protest knowing that it will not bring about any real change.You passively go along with idea and they the monied for all intense proposes ignore you.
They have beaten before you even start and they know it..
They control the police,they control the media and they control you!
Revolutions are bloody and their yet may be much blood spilled in the streets of America..
But, for the time being, they have you pretty much where they want you.
Marginalize.
There is already blood in the streets--and homeless vets sleeping in ditches. HOmeless elderly still living in tents under bridges in New Orleans. There is already blood in the streets. But, most of it, so far, is "ours". Revolutions dont HAVE to be bloody. Especially if you have the military on your side. There are too many people with nothign left to lose. They just dont see that voting the duopoly is goin g to change that.
You are not troubled by the strident gains of the Right--especially after what we have endured?
The endless ineptitude of the Democrats pisses me off--my perspective is the dismal congressional ratings are due to their inability to hold the criminal Right accountable. I watched Obama last night on KO (KO was actually more direct in incisive)and it annoyed me that he stutters and stumbles and appears as a weak bumbling idiot. Jesus man, stand your ground and speak directly and with assurance. I am sorry to say that Palin can deliver a lie more effectively than Obama can stand up for the truth. Even Biden is more fluid and direct. Granted, Clinton ran an effective Republican campaign within the Democratic primaries--so Obama should have a callused approach. Truth be told, he barely squeezed in and was losing to Clinton's foul tactics. You would think he would harden up--but he keeps with this lets all be nice act. You can't be nice with these people--they will run right over you with great satisfaction. I am disgusted with the weak and stuttering Obama. Just one time he uttered a full-throated, "enough" and it just ain't enough. He needs to kick ass in a direct and firm manner because it is all these bullies understand.
Still, there is way too much at stake for me to throw my vote away in a 2 way contest. I just don't have that luxury to dream of the perfect while we tumble into a dark age. Do you?
Sometimes you have to accept what is as good as it gets in context of the times.
So what you are saying Vern is that since the Republicans are 95% corrupt and the Democrats are only 75% corrupt; if you vote for the dems your vote is only 75% corrupt! I prefer to vote 3rd party and vote my conscience.
Bring America Back !!!! Although Chris Hedges attributes most of the
Gestapo tactics to St Paul, there was quite a bit of it at the Denver Rock Concert as well. So we really can't isolate Repubbys for bringing the Police State to us . One Denver Jackboot clubbed a Codepink lady to the street !
****The article is a Rant, but I hate to see such well done anti-Fascist pieces done without attribution to the Mother Cause. It was 9/11, Progs, the Great
Turnpoint in modern history !! When the Neocon Repubbys refer to it, they mean that Boogieman bin Laden and his merry band of 19 cave dwellers. When we Progs refer to it, we mean the 9/11 that is yet Covered Up by mainstream media, and that was very much an 'Inside Job' by parties we know but as yet cannot pin to the ashes with defined evidence and proof !! Some day we will, but two days from now is a good, if not somber, time to contemplate it again ! 8 Years Later
****The ensuing frantic and irrational nationalism which gave us 2 Patriot Acts, the Military Commissions torture laws, FISA violations are the sparks being used by Jackboot local police forces becoming the Stormtroopers we now know !
It was indeed, our second Pearl Harbor== and that we can pin on the
Neocon Repubbys, as evidenced in their signed and sealed PNAC declaration .
**King George and Prince Cheney are doing their best to cover their criminal tracks, before they lose grip on the power and powers that be. !! But things are starting to loosen, slowly, painstakingly, but I for one just know that we are going to find our DEEP THROAT of 9/11.
Bring America Back !!!! Although Chris Hedges attributes most of the
Gestapo tactics to St Paul, there was quite a bit of it at the Denver Rock Concert as well. So we really can't isolate Repubbys for bringing the Police State to us . One Denver Jackboot clubbed a Codepink lady to the street !
****The article is a Rant, but I hate to see such well done anti-Fascist pieces done without attribution to the Mother Cause. It was 9/11, Progs, the Great
Turnpoint in modern history !! When the Neocon Repubbys refer to it, they mean that Boogieman bin Laden and his merry band of 19 cave dwellers. When we Progs refer to it, we mean the 9/11 that is yet Covered Up by mainstream media, and that was very much an 'Inside Job' by parties we know but as yet cannot pin to the ashes with defined evidence and proof !! Some day we will, but two days from now is a good, if not somber, time to contemplate it again ! 8 Years Later
****The ensuing frantic and irrational nationalism which gave us 2 Patriot Acts, the Military Commissions torture laws, FISA violations are the sparks being used by Jackboot local police forces becoming the Stormtroopers we now know !
It was indeed, our second Pearl Harbor== and that we can pin on the
Neocon Repubbys, as evidenced in their signed and sealed PNAC declaration .
**King George and Prince Cheney are doing their best to cover their criminal tracks, before they lose grip on the power and powers that be. !! But things are starting to loosen, slowly, painstakingly, but I for one just know that we are going to find our DEEP THROAT of 9/11.
Generally I have to agree with the majority of the comments on CD. It's pretty obvious to the majority of commenters that they are aware of the fact that A) we have a sophisticated form of misinformation and propaganda delivered to us by the corporate media and that B) both parties require 'corporate approval' to field a presidential candidate and C) the corporate agenda has trumped the public agenda for decades now.
Yet I find solace that not all Americans have been sucked into this black hole of media manipulated politics and that at least the internet still provides a forum for real progressives.
My question is..."does anyone know how many peole read CD everyday?"
If the readership is large enough here, then perhaps we can reach out to our fellow Americans and enlighten them to the fact that the government has been highjacked by a corporate agenda. We still have the vote and despite rigged voting machines & the manufacturing of consent, the chance to vote in someone like Ralph Nader is still a possibility if enough people out there can enlighten the people around them.
I think that the sad truth is that many of the Common Dreams audience, which should be the most receptive to the idea that the system is broken, and that we cannot support either of the corporate candidates if we truly support peace and justice, will not move out of their comfort zone and vote outside of the democratic party.
Why haven't Common Dream, the Nation, or Mr. Hitchens actively supported third party candidates like Nader or McKinney (or Kucinich or Mike Gravel)? That is a mystery to me.
I can't absolutely say that voting third party will resolve anything, but I also know that 'progressives' voting for the lesser of two evils the past two elections hasn't changed the democratic party leadership to adopt any progressive policies.
I think that I, and the rest of the world, would be happy if Nader made a strong showing, which would indicate that there at least some in the US who haven't traded in their brains for the koolaid that is being sold by the mainstream candidates. Some will get upset that I am making disparaging remarks about their candidate, but to me voting third party is the only approach that can get us off the militaristic, corporate driven, totalitarian path that we are headed towards.
"Be careful of what you wish for, you may get it." Kurt Vonnegut
Simply put: In order for the multi-party system to work we have to revamp the election system itself. It has been mathematically proven that it is impossible to have a fair election in our system with more than two candidates. (If you're interested, I'll dig for the article about this - it may take a while though). So in essence if you vote for a third party you are wasting your vote in the system we have. In fact, you may actually be giving your vote, via its absence, to the candidate of the two major parties you disapprove of the most.
So, don't vote for a third party, but instead push for voting system reform by voting for the one of the two candidates you think would be more open to voting reform then see how far it can be taken.
My six drachmas,
Rose
Has CD endorsed anyone? I mean, I know that they are "Left"--but they have articles critical of "both" sides (if you can, indeed , call it that) Anyway, if I had my choice--I would vote Kucincih/Nader. Can you write in in your state? In the past, you couldnt in Ohio.I hear conflicting reports about Nader being on the ballot in Ohio--even at teh website. Do you know if he is?
Kilgore Trout
NotOneMore,
Your plaintive cry in the dark has driven me to reveal my pending vote, for what it is worth:
I will write in Dennis Kucinich for President,
Ralph Nader for V.P.
This has been my position since '04. In '04 it was Nader for Pres. as was '00.
As in the case of O.J Simpson, where a CIVIL suit went some small way in adressing a serious situation the Criminal system could not effectively deal with....why not SUE every bugger with a gun and body armour that used violence...
maybe this kind of "Capitalist and All-American" appeal to the Courts to use MONEY as a big-stick in TRYING to maintain a civil society...(since what else might work...reading the Facts of the matter???)...might provide some meaningful fodder for the MOB that supported all this...sue them whenever, however...keep on suing...money talks if decency does not!
Wow, frightening indeed. Who could have anticipated that the 21st century would be such a huge step backward for the United States of America. Abuse of power and censorship are some of Sarah Palin's strong suits. WAKE UP PEOPLE, this is our country (I think). I would love to see exactly how 'law enforcement' knew the who's, how's, where's, and when's. These people are AMERICANS. This type of stuff is unpatriotic and anti-american (It is much worst and disturbing than that).
I take it you have not heard of the 'Patriot Act?' The massive documentation here and in some newspapers, regarding the 'improvements,' extensions, Supreme Court rulings on ACLU suits, Congressional hearings, enhanced surveillance laws that are extended by Congressional vote, immunity for phone companies, immunity for the POTUS (Constitution does not allow 'ex parte' laws for any situation or person).
In other words, they simply used software to isolate calls from known numbers, or calls to those numbers, and recorded conversations. Any cell phone, or change to an account, will ultimately reveal your identity, as will a credit card, driver's license, mortgage, electric bill, etc. If that is 'non-productive,' long range listening devices, etc. will be used after someone in the neighborhood fingers the residence. This could be the guy who reads the electric meter, the mailman who notices an increase in personal mail, the watermeter man who notices a substantial increase in usage, the nosey woman or man who lives in visual contact notices more people going in and out, etc.
This has become SOP.
Word to the wise...
I've lived my whole life in St. Paul, and I find this article atrocious. In it I see hyperbole, a "crisis cult" meme, a martyr complex, and a drawing of the line in the sand inside our own skirmish line.
By this last point I mean that the local cops have no relevance to the D.C. establishment, the war in Iraq, the big issues of the day like bailouts to banks and crooks, a mafioso-approach to the Executive Branch and a complicit/enabling Congress. It's a goddamned waste of time to take your frustrations to the cops, to engage in local law enforcement, to draw them out, to bait them. If the great class war comes, I expect cops, lower-ranking military, and progressives -- whether they want them or not -- to be on the SAME SIDE. Let's draw the line in the sand at about the 90% percentile of income for your region. If you make below that figure, you're probably on the side of ordinary people -- WHETHER OR NOT you actually identify that way. If your family wealth, investments, salary, etc. is well-above that figure, you're part of Bush's "base". If you don't want to be there, then donate it to a good cause and join the rest of us.
Furthermore, there were some people in the RNC who genuinely DID have bad intentions, did not honor the Freedom of Assembly for the Rethugs (personally I think the Republicans should largely be jailed, but until progressives can control the courts, trying to shut down some other political convention is actually a trespass against the Rethugs' own freedom of assembly. And what could possibly be achieved? Would McCain suddenly change his entire Weltanschauung? If only we had the right sign or the right chant? Come on people, we should be engaging our NEIGHBOR. Someone who MIGHT CHANGE HIS MIND or get ACTIVE. There is no dialog possible with the Rethugs, and probably none with the corporate Dems either. At this point we probably shouldn't even bother taking a message to them. We should be engaging our neighbors, communities, building movements of people who are open to change.
There was a small number of out-of-state protesters/provocateurs (their arrest records are available online) who smashed windows of local businesses, and just happened to be there for the local media to capture in broad daylight.
Having been a reader of Common Dreams for a few years now, I must say that my opinion of this site has gone downhill reading the inflammatory messages here on this topic. The police may have gotten out of hand at various points, and so did a small minority of the protesters/provocateurs. It's actually a good thing the cops busted the worst of them BEFORE the protest. Can you imagine the media distraction if someone cut power to the building, popped hundreds of tires, or otherwise did much more severe property damage to local businesses? The whole point of the protest, anti-war messages, etc. would be lost -- far worse than it already was -- and the right-wing jerk-offs would be calling them terrorists instead of "merely" anarchists.
So I say shame on the head-banging "left" here. Hyperbole, "crisis cult", martyr complex. If progressive populists and others had instead organized a pro-peace summit on a different week, brought in music, food, various groups (labor, American Indian, Green, educators, ecumenical clergy, etc.) had the proper permits, and were peaceable -- not obstructing traffic, breaking windows, etc. and the police still came rushing in with stun grenades, infiltrators, etc. then we'd have something to worry about. But this ain't it. This is crying wolf, so far as I'm concerned -- and I wonder how many other of the stories here on CD are in the same vein. There may be a kernel of truth to some, others may be largely true, but this one is histrionic.
I should say that we USED to have such events here in the Twin Cities, in the Wellstone days and earlier. I worry that "the left" has been high-jacked by people who are directing it to bang their heads against the wall, and little else. Instead of crying about the protest, why aren't its "leaders" organizing a big pro-peace rally, Chautauqua style, with food, music, family-friendly, etc. Reaching out to different communities, building respect, a good reputation, growing the size of the movement, the cultural values, human dignity, etc. Why not? Probably because such leaders do not exist any more?
"why aren't its "leaders" organizing a big pro-peace rally, Chautauqua style, with food, music, family-friendly, etc. Reaching out to different communities, building respect, a good reputation, growing the size of the movement, the cultural values, human dignity, etc."
We had plenty of those, in DC and in my home town. Hundreds of thousand turned out -A good time was had by all, and then everyone went home. Little or no mention in the Washington Post. Nothing came of them.
So, telvepax, you think blocking streets and other forms of nonviolence are inappropriate because the right ridicules them? So, I assume you would consider Gandhi and King just troublemakers too, right?
The incident with stun grenades - the poor poeples campaign march - WAS a peaceful march. Remember?
And I'm not sure why you stick up for your local cops, the ones in my home town are racist, fascist thugs. In fact, psychological tests indicate that exactly the same psychopathology that lead one to become a common street thug, lead others to become cops - the only difference being cops come from more privleged socio-economic backgrounds.
USAn September 9th, 2008 11:10 am,
thank you for your comments, isn't it peculiar that several on this site (typically academics or vested members in the 'peace' movement) like to flip this argument suggesting that activists plan violence ? instead of the more common occurrence of a mass of people rationally responding to the govt's repressive tactics (hence gas masks, bandanas, jail solidarity - duh.. a little organization)
i was present on the tuesday afternoon in seattle when the 'demo' went in a different direction. i was present as an independent 'observer'/sympathist against the WTO. i was a participant and on those streets i found my friends of years (farmers, labor organizers, peace-social justice activists) people i trust and love.
the day was amazing, paper mache turtles, speeches, puppets - civil disobedience - micheal moore walking the streets encouraging the activists locked arm in arm blocking streets- shutting down the WTO.
there were 'corporate' sites that were targeted by vanguard groups (black blocks from different cities). but it seemed under control - police presence but thousands of protesters. as i recall it didn't turn ugly until darkness descended (5ish). i remember a couple i first met in '91 at a peace vigil leaving w/ their kids. my friend said 'iowablackbird', we've got to go - i understand - good to see you, peace, so they pushed their children away in strollers. about this time i saw kids (17-20) pulling red children's wagons w/ buckets of cold water, rags, wrap bandages, med supplies - in very appropriate timing - anticipating the obvious (actually very helpful). i stood on a dumpster and watched the police provoke over 1000 people in a square. the police line moved like a jellyfish.
the problem, the demonstrators/protesters were serious - they weren't fucking leaving. they recognized the achievement they had made earlier in the day and they decided fuck it - we'll stay here a while longer (protected speech). the organizers stood in the square (courageously, yet w/ little control over the emotion) in the midst of the police and said sit down, remain non violent. the police lines (they were stormtroopers) broke.
police w/ batons and plastic shields demanding the people leave the square, broke the peace - not the protesters.
i was 40 yards away near the dumpster. as the police poured in from one intersection (as they did at multiple intersections simultaneously), firing rubber bullets, shooting canisters of teargas into crowds w/ both elderly and children - i watched those liberals (you know it's a peaceful world and all - but my espresso machine at home is waiting for me) cry, running from their local police.
beyond that it was surrealistic. international journalists photographing american demonstrators, picking up cans of teargas and hurling them back at the police. clowns on bicycles slowly cycling w/ boom boxes playing gil scott heron, bizarre unmarked white suv's w/ extended boom microphones - decked out w/ small satellite dishes driving 5 mph through the crowd, silhouetted by teargas and streetlamps. as the police moved step by step, plastic shield by plastic shield against the residents of their own community - the mob.
for the remaining 11 hours the police and protesters went block by block through the streets.
seattle. - the media convergence center birthing the US indy media movement (also targeted 9 years ago).
(remember the boston massacre occurred in 1770, these events take time to digest)
but i hear people suggest 'be weary of those who suggest violent tactics' agent provocateurs - govt agents (here in the us) are responsible for the mob's actions.
no, it's the police state and their violent tactics that provoke peaceful demonstrators to respond to authoritarian tactics (ala tienanmen square). to run and cry is counter intuitive. to rationalize the govt's response, or trivialize the crowds justified emotion is criminal.
stand up and resist, when the government brutally suppresses your right to assemble. engage in civil disobedience or remain subservient to your masters.
anarchists my ass.... it's your friendly government violating your unrestricted 1st amendment right to assemble and speak in public, wherever and whenever you can (w/out which all rights vanish)...
not to be overly narcissistic or sentimental, just sharing w/ you one day of my little existence...
again USAn, thank you for providing me w/ a little sanity yesterday.
...peace...
"you think blocking streets and other forms of nonviolence are inappropriate because the right ridicules them?"
Some people would think blocking the streets is inappropriate because it interferes with the rights of others and is illegal.
" Gandhi and King just troublemakers "
Whether through the tactics they used or the inherent justness of their cause or both, they were able to eventually garner political support.
twelvepax September 8th, 2008 10:13 pm,
a few comments....
a "crisis cult" meme, a martyr complex"
-- so in your estimation there isn't a crisis, (rights weren't violated) and you call people who exercise their right to assemble and speak, people experiencing a martyr complex. obviously you ignored the jefferson quote. it isn't a complex to demonstrate, it's your constitutional right (which you don't seem very concerned about in sunny st paul).
"local cops have no relevance to the D.C. establishment"
--actually all evidence points to the contrary, your city allowed the convention, your businesses profited from the convention participants and the demonstrators (even the rnc welcoming committee was paying someone rent). when your police worked w/ federal cops to infiltrate protesters your cops (dressed in imperial storm trooper garb) became very relevant to the dc establishment.
----------
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/8/headlines
GOP Bought Insurance for St. Paul to Cover Police Misconduct Lawsuits
The Associated Press reports taxpayers in St. Paul should be off the hook for any damages stemming from claims of police misconduct related to the Republican National Convention. As part of a deal with the city, the Republican Party’s host committee bought insurance covering up to $10 million in damages and unlimited legal costs for lawsuits against the police. In St. Paul, some critics say the agreement only encouraged police to use aggressive tactics knowing they won’t have to pay damages.
-----------
"It's a goddamned waste of time to take your frustrations to the cops, to engage in local law enforcement"
your opinion - no more or less. also cops beating up reporters deserves a few frustrating encounters w/ demonstrators. no?
"If you don't want to be there, then donate it to a good cause and join the rest of us."
-- you don't know what your talking about, many of the activists do donate money and more importantly their time to creating consciousness (for example jail solidarity, or raising awareness of inequities in wealth, or the gross violations of human rights occurring around the world in the name of terror). it's asinine and presumptuous to assume these people aren't active when their not demonstrating. they're not mutually exclusive.
"Furthermore, there were some people in the RNC who genuinely DID have bad intentions"
-- assertion - no evidence...
"until progressives can control the courts, trying to shut down some other political convention is actually a trespass against the Rethugs' own freedom of assembly. And what could possibly be achieved?"
-- not so clever analysis, everyone has 1st amendment rights. how they play out is a different story, let them assemble - but let them suffer the consequences derived from their policies. is it pretty. has it ever been pretty (refer to jefferson quote above).
"Would McCain suddenly change his entire Weltanschauung? If only we had the right sign or the right chant?"
--it's not about mccain/palin it's about the people becoming aware of how other people feel about bush and the repubs (the instigators of the fascist policies we encounter today, that you dismiss as exaggerations). it's about instilling courage in the others who are to fearful to look out their window and see what's happening.
"There was a small number of out-of-state protesters/provocateurs (their arrest records are available online) who smashed windows of local businesses"
-- no minnesotans, huh? i doubt that, again no sources.
"The police may have gotten out of hand at various points"
-- like beating up reporters, illegally tapping phones and raiding houses. why not be a little specific here ?...
"or otherwise did much more severe property damage to local businesses? The whole point of" the protest, anti-war messages, etc. would be lost -- far worse than it already was -- and the right-wing jerk-offs would be calling them terrorists instead of "merely" anarchists."
-- 2 important points. 1. you seem to be more concerned w/ commerce and property rights than the protection of constitutional rights and, 2. they already call activists - terrorists- so actually it wasn't better or worse than it already is. a police state.
as to the remainder of your post. obviously you've never spent time w/ these people (the anarchists/activists/rnc welcoming committee), they do organize and participate in raising consciousness against war outside of demonstrations. i imagine much more than you do. enjoy your latte....
...peace...
enjoy your latte....
Exactly. These "liberals" with their intolerance of diversity of tactics and viewpoints have destroyed the once very effective peace and justice center in my home town.
I'm afraid that the police, no matter how nice they may be personally, are institutionally at odds with the general public and working people. We may like the police but we know that they are not out to protect our civil rights, but rather property rights.
We can only ask that when civil rights are being violated that they become conscientious objectors by taking off their uniforms and joining their fellow citizens. Let right be done.
PS Blaming the left for wrongful police action is unbecoming.
I was a photographer covering the protests against the FTAA summit in Miami years ago. I saw peaceful demonstrators, not anarchists and vandals, violently attacked by police with no provocation. It was a police riot. The recent RNC thing is not an aberration, it's a pattern of abuse. And with all the anti-terror laws enacted in recent years it will only get worse.
Here's a brief account of the event written by Lee Sustar:
"Welcome to the police state of Miami." That's Florida AFL-CIO President Cynthia Hall's greeting to thousands of union members gathering in the city's Bayfront Park Amphitheater on November 20, as we prepare to march against the Free Trade Area of the Americas (FTAA) summit.
Lines of cops are aiming rifles loaded with plastic bullets at the heads of union members. They've roughed up and arrested several unionists already--including retirees--and they will prevent thousands from even entering the arena.
Along with the injuries come plenty of calculated insults--like the police helicopter buzzing the amphitheater as AFL-CIO President John Sweeney begins to speak. By the time the last protest is over, nearly 200 arrests will take place, with dozens of protesters injured, many seriously. And AFL-CIO leaders, protest organizers and civil liberties groups will join forces to denounce the authorities' countless violations of civil rights.
This highly militarized--and systematically brutal--show of force by 40 law enforcement agencies won't prevent the FTAA negotiations from unraveling behind the fortified fence that surrounds the meetings at the exclusive Inter-Continental Hotel, however. And despite police use of concussion grenades, rubber and plastic bullets, pepper spray balls, Taser stun-guns, tanks, helicopters and more, the global justice movement is reviving on the streets of Miami, with an estimated 25,000 prepared to protest.
Thanks for the good points.
Our neo-police state did not arise this year, nor even in the Bush years - it arose in it's current form in Seattle in 1999 - and was refined in Pliladelphia in 2000 and the Maimi FTAA in 2003.
The Police State is here now, and it's most recent appearance was in St. Paul. This guy says he's lived there all his life. It just goes to show, it can be happening in your own city and most people won't recognize it when it's happening. I live in San Diego and I saw it loud and clear just by watching Free Speech TV and reading articles on the Internet.
The War for Terror
The cuckoo’s that came home to nest
spreading fear in the land of the blest
so talking heads could tell us what to hate
and why we need a gulag state
We have steamed up fear and baited hate
and the Zion train is running late
Anyone pro fair trade labor or cooperate
may soon well have a Guatanamo date
Total awareness is a mighty big book
Nineteen eighty four was more than a look
Martial law is all it took
to get the puppeteers off the hook
We’ve got brown shirt and swartzwater thugs
loose in the fertile valley with their blitzkrieg slugs
We’ve got no oil; say nada; for all that blood
the third world war will be another dud
strife flood and fire are the coupons
for the Mc mansions gated who of who’s
that are trading greenbacks for the trump
while the eagle empire becomes a dump
so get out the two flavored one non-entity vote
for the changing of the puppets is at hand
in the land of the free and the brave
where dissent called treason is the knave
the war on terror is what it's not
a war for terror is what we got
better get out in the streets folks! just say no to rising fascism before its too late. the next roundup could include your family...
Perhaps this is the real reason?
“Liberal commentators have been quick to condemn McCain's pick as a cynical ploy to draw disaffected Clinton supporters to the Republican camp. Such criticism naively misunderstands the new racial code of this election. McCain is not assuming, in devious Rovian fashion, that he can trick unthinking voters into voting for a woman. Rather, he is offering an escape for cynical non-blacks resentful of their historical situation. They were about to face an election in which they had to finally admit they would not vote for a black man. But now McCain has offered them a palatable way out: now voters do not have to say they prefer McCain to Obama, they can say that they are actively supporting a woman.” - Malini Johar Schueller and Ed White September 8, 2008
To attempt a split, as Remy writes, of voters who may or may not vote for a woman being a motivator to vote against the numbers that would never, or just couldn't vote for a person of color, therefore his laughable thesis "...of the new racial code of this election." Indeed, Remy's audacity denies the inherent implausibility of his thesis: "...he (McCain) is offering an escape for cynical non-blacks resentful of their historical situation. They were about to face an election...admit they would not vote for a black man."
There are numerous references, statistics, studies that have invalidated this lack of awareness. I am too old, too educated to re-establish my sources. CD itself has articles providing current studies that are no more than 3-4 days old. By the written word I realize most who post tripe like this are young, acting on Pavlovian behavioral patterns. I mean no offense other than 'lack of awareness.'
When the vitriolic assaults define logic, context reminds thinking to defuse aggression.
Remy Germain September 8th, 2008 8:03 pm
Palin was picked to appeal to the Republican base. A pick that has been succesful I might add, the evangelicals who were sceptical of McCain are ecstatic.
Lobo Gris
This is a marginal call, Lobo. The current 'hedge fund' failure, financial 'pea under which shell' shenanigans in the mortgage 'industry' is comparative.
Numerically, intuitively, on November 5, 2008, the Republican party's attempts to use all known illegal, but without immediate court restraining, methods of intimidation of voters, voting machine manipulations, disqualifying (falsely) voters, etc. will be incapable of preventing the complete repudiation of the Republican party. Besides the Presidency, there won't be enough Republicans in either the Senate or Congress to gather a forum, let alone prevent the Bush legacy to be completely stricken from history.
If these lames can agree...:)
I hope you're right but right now McCain/Palin are polling even in some polls and ahead in others of Obama/Biden. In what should be a landslide for the Democrats it appears that once again they are snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Lobo Gris
miniwood
What rubbish
You have proven the point haven't you?
I'm posting this in response to questions about police infiltration of groups... what they admit may be the tip of the iceberg???
Ramsey County Sheriff Admits Local Police Used Paid Infiltrators and Spied on Activists Including RNC Welcoming Committee
In an interview on Democracy Now!, Ramsey County Sheriff Bob Fletcher blamed a group of 400 to 500 alleged anarchists for creating unrest in St. Paul over the past week. Fletcher also admitted local police authorities had infiltrated and spied on local activists, including members of the RNC Welcoming Committee, for over a year. We play his remarks and an excerpt of a press conference, where members of the RNC Welcoming Committee spoke to the media for the first time. [includes rush transcript]
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/5/ramsey_county_sheriff_admits_local_police
Police informers and infiltrators are the ones in your group that always want to do violence and cause damage. When someone speaks to these actions, get their name and have your lawyers immediately find out who they are. There are usually several people assigned to peace groups and don't be surprise if the leaders are themselves informers and police agents. Remember the police have unlimited budgets for this work.
Also why is it that "anarchists" are to blame as anarchists are as peaceful as any other citizens? The anarchists being blamed is like the red baiting of the fifties; silly, untrue and very dangerous.
Are we going to have the Palmer raids again?
Even in Australia we saw the stormtroopers in action. We scratched our heads and wondered whether this was really America or some third-world fascist state.
The American Dream has turned into a nightmare for Americans AND for the rest of the world.
America urgently needs a French-style Revolution. Surely among 300 million people there are some leaders, some activists, some revolutionaries.
Where are they?
www.dangerouscreation.com
I AM HERE! Another election (Tweedledumb and Tweedledumbass) will accomplish slim to nothing. Most true progresives are thinking Obama now, just to avoid McCain/Palin. After 8 yrs of W--we can do better, folks. Obama couldve done better. (MCCAIN USED TO BE BETTER!! Dont say its not true! He got sucked into RNC) Obama got swallowed whole by DNC. Most peopel that run for the Imperial Presidency of the uS, have to be egoists, anyway. The Am,. people put way to much power into the Presidency. By the time someone gets into office, people expect too much.We are in desparate need of a complete overhaul, folks. If not a coup--at, the least, a constitutional convention. Everyone touts the constitution--but presidents rarely follow it.Its become a constitutin of convenience, and is vastly outdated. That what I think, anyway. Call me treasonous--and let W eta l off the hook.
DavidG. September 8th, 2008 7:46 pm,
i concur, cowards who question others tactics (yet who cringe when some refuse to follow their own tactics - supporting 3rd party candidates that can't win b/c the system is rigged against them)
what's the hang up w/ broken glass and property? did the police respect the property of the organizers that was confiscated before the demonstrations ? have the police ever respected the rights of the homeless? how about the rights of the migrant workers in iowa and in mississippi, or the iraqis who were tortured in iraq? or the privacy rights of people who have had their homes searched while they were at work? (unbeknown to them) and on and on.
the government protects the property of the wealthy and the rich, period. they could care less about other people's property and rights (check in w/ the folks down in louisiana). yeah they will crack down (the thugs) if not today then tomorrow, better sooner then later unless you have some gold you're hiding that you don't want to share w/ your starving neighbors.
whose windows were broken (strabucks, macy's mcdonalds)? great institutions that have the resources to replace their storefront windows. the government spends 50 million dollars to data mine, infiltrate organizers, abridge peoples rights and people at this site are offended by property damage?
completely links up w/ the comments earlier on this thread alluding to censurship (oh my god so and so was rather upset w/ my thought and said 'fuck', how unsettling).
so as real revolutionary times descend upon us some of us already know that many who proclaim to be 'progressive' patriots will become collaborators.
'yes sir' mr anarchist broke that window, here's his address - i mean i live here, see my neat yard and my picket fence, it's mine, my property. i worked hard for it, (same argumnets that companies use to exploit workers / it's mine i earned it- bogus).
it's time to get over the me/mine bullshit and come to the reality that millions of americans don't have the luxury of mine anymore.
also, to call these people childish reeks of elitism. go to their websites (shouldn't be to hard try google) http://www.nornc.org/ and you'll see these folks are not naive and juvenal, in fact they understand that revolution is an ongoing process (follow the links).
unbelieveable, people telling me to think outside of the box and support nader while living in boxes. funny....
remember the boston massacre...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Massacre
"The Boston Massacre refers to an incident involving the deaths of five civilians at the hands of British troops on March 5, 1770, the legal aftermath of which helped spark the rebellion in some of the British colonies in America, which culminated in the American Revolution. A tense situation because of a heavy British military presence in Boston boiled over to incite brawls between soldiers and civilians, and eventually led to troops discharging their muskets after being attacked by a rioting crowd. Three civilians were killed at the scene of the shooting, and two died after the incident.[1]"
or the words of jefferson....
"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."
or the warning
"First they came for the communists, I was not a communist, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the socialists and trade unionists, I was neither so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew, so I did not speak out. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me."
Pastor Martin Niemoeller, Nazi victim.
as though anything difficult in life did not require sacrifice...
...peace...
People should not be confused with property. Corporations should not be confused wirh human beings. Money should not be confused with free speech."Lobbying" should not be confused with lobbyists. Free trade should not be confused with globalism.
In the past 10 years, this has been the strategy of stopping dissent. And, unfortunately, the tactics are only getting more repressive. The progressive movement needs to find another way of resistance. This is not working.
This year, I decided not to participate in the Convention protests (I have been providing legal support since the RNC/DNC in 2000). I am much more interested in having a conversation about effective resistance than being pepper-sprayed. I am willing to put my butt on the line, and have over and over many times, but I am not willing to do it until we are clear in what are goals are and what we want to accomplish has been articulated and a tactic and strategy that might work.
In the meantime, I will continue to offer legal support (I work for a criminal defense lawyer) to those who do not have the NLG watching their backs on their streets where they are harrassed and arrested and beaten and sometimes killed by cops every day.
"I will continue to offer legal support (I work for a criminal defense lawyer) to those who do not have the NLG watching their backs on their streets where they are harrassed and arrested and beaten and sometimes killed by cops every day."
I see why you work for a lawyer...this statement negates 'redress of grievances,' since 'progressive' is not synonymous with 'resistance.'
Also, working for a lawyer is not the same as being a lawyer. As for your providing legal support, do you have a caregiver? I'm serious, here. You sound as if you wrote this while having your brain handcuffed to an inanimate object for the last 50 yrs. Are you in need of 911?
I feel like I'm developing multiple personality disorder. On the one hand, there are articles like yesterday's "Building an Anti-Economy", by Chris Carlsson, that inspire hope and thoughts like, "We may just pull out of this yet...", and then there are articles like this one that inspire fear and despair. I wonder if the number of suicides have gone up in recent months? I bet they have.
I don't see this article as engendering fear and despair. To me, it's more like a good hardy slap across the face to wake people up... to make people actively question. To be more proactive to call people and by association certain government policies on their falsehoods and work to not let things slip further into a hole than they already have. So, while its unpleasant, it is important. I think all of us have let a lot of things that are blatantly wrong slide over the past few years. We can't do that anymore. We are better than this.
The women's right movement suceeded because half the population is made up of women. They recognized each other easily and united . Not all, but given the large numers, enough. Blacks were victorious because they recognized each other easily and all shared the same injustice. They were very united. The evangelicals are succeeeding because they are very united and have ways of recognizing each other and sizable numbers. The left is in disarray, doesn't have big numbers and barely recognizes each other..Greens splitting votes with Nader is not good. They should unite.....but because ofpride........Leftists are going to Obama on the excuse of being realistic, robbing the movement against the corruption of the state of its force. The election is meaningless. We all know who is going to win, they are. This election can help the movement grow. Neither Obama nor McCain will be our President, he will be theirs. McKinney should join Nader as VP. Neither can win so it hardly matters who is first, but Nader has huge seniority. Give him the top spot. Begin to build an alternative, let whoever win and build on their mistakes. There is need for a movementlizard
I know that suicides amonmg troops and vets is soaring. There are also alot of suicides among the elderly.
Suicide rates continue to be the highest in the 16-26 year old group, with a strong following by 26-34 year olds who have not yet completed a Master's or PhD. requirements.
The next highest group are cops.
I always thought it was dentists....
Heres a good starting point:
http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html#2005
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
All that was missing was the cathedral of light designed by Albert Speer. It was a Triumph of the Swill (borrowing from Jello Biafra).
I first received word about these tyrannical acts via blogs by Starhawk, a writer and witch who has done many good things in post-Katrina New Orleans. She and her group of peaceful protesters were in Minnesota to bring attention to the country's abandonment of the poor, the pillage of Iraq, and the threat of war in Iran, among other things. When I read what happened to some of those people--arrested, tazered, left in jail without medical treatment, their offices raided (with guns trained on children), their vehicles confiscated--I kept screaming at my boyfriend: "Are we living in Stalinist Russia now? I thought this was the United States of America!" I screamed myself hoarse. Then, in later days, I read of Amy Goodman being arrested as she tried to help her producers who were covering the protests. I became very frightened, then VERY angry. "Bling" Palin and McSame will continue these atrocities, but we must not waiver. We must continue to organize, protest, write, and stand up to the tyranny, then answer the door calmly, our heads up, when the jackboots come knockin' in our own neighborhoods.
i am not an american but closely following the events in your country particularly this coming election. this is not only your election but that of the world since your country affects all of us . I could not figure out how still many americans can be fooled by mcshame and palin!!! just want to congratulate you in your committment to continue whatever you can do to counter the forces of unquenchable thirst for greed and power.and with congratulations i am offering prayers for all the good works being done by conscientious people like you. can your comment and also this commondream's news be more widely publicized to inform more people? i do not think many are reading commondreams. maybe you can help in that area,too.
karin,
Very few USAns as a percentage, visit this site.
And, in spite of this site being available to anyone who can read in english around the words, Those who aprticipate in this comment section are so few that we practically know each other.
Many of those outside the USA (particularly Canadians) seem to think that Obama is some kind of savior and all will be right if he is elected - but don't get your hopes too high. All he represents is the socially liberal yuppie city-slicker wing of the imperialist war machine.
The hidden Enemy Within is European in origin, consisting of individuals who lived through and survived the horrors of the Second World War.
Regarding the posting of Nanny and the words of Nader on power. If Palin were to ever become the President how could we say that power is in the hands of the elites? Power is sinking into the hands of the lowest because our best minds have refused to surface and make plain what we make of power in our culture. Is that the idea? I'm in shock. I think the worst will come to pass, people will see what we have wrought and the tide will turn..... the Germans didn't get it until they had committed the worst atrocity that human kind has seen. Sometimes things just go to their inevitable and ghastly conclusion before sanity returns.
Sometimes people post things on CD that deserve being hidden. If I have guests come to my home and my dog takes a crap on the floor I'm going to try and hide it before they get here. I think we all know dog crap when we see it.
Crap is crap and it's meant to offend so get over it......
So your definition of 'crap' establishes your power structure.
You have a small knowledge of what is interpreted as "Free Speech."
You "...hide it..."? Your dog crap? Are you saving it for Halloween?
If my dog craps on the floor, I CLEAN IT UP, and get the old Potpourri going.
Sheezzz...
Some people should not have a position of "Guardian of Free Speech."
But then, "What is "validity?"
The point is not that I see myself as guardian of free speech and I too hide the crap by removing it to the waste. There are people whose postings are so venomous and vile and purely for the sake of being so that while they do indeed have the right to spew their venom and vile the overwhelming majority of us have the right to not want to be sickened by it. I think it occurred to the moderators at CD to act as good hosts who would not have guests sickened while the offending matter sat on the floor smoldering. Liberals have made the mistake in the past of not defending against things which are clearly meant to be purely destructive (Howard Stern comes to mind).... and if you want to declare as terrorists do that terrorism... i.e.pure destructiveness in action or words... is the only response left to the completely powerless than you are already lost....... and some speech is meant as just that... purely destructive and that is my definition of crap. I think this is valid.
Your reasoning is suffering from rationalizing to restrict free speech. Free speech by definition is just that. It is not in this context, as a conservative SCOTUS once ruled, equivalent to shouting fire in a theater.
My presence here goes back before I retired, so about 5 years. CD posters are mild compared to quite a few others. However, that is beside the point.
There are religious zealots on this site that tread all over my civil rights with their repetitive dogma justifying their opinions. This IS illegal. Whereas your persnickety, soap in your mouth attitude, or mentality, only whines to support your religious derivative, avoiding the religiousity to prevent a readily apparent illegal request. Thus, your context is 'offensive by false allusion to 'taste.' That, and 'common decency,' also have been shown to be 'narrowing' of a 'larger concept of human behavior and beliefs.'
Therefore, I suggest a stretching of your definitions, and limited experience.
Thank you.
"Free speech by definition is just that. "
You confuse the right of free speech with the right of people to provide a forum under the terms they wish. There is nothing in the Constitution requiring anyone to provide a forum or other resources to accommodate your speech that is on you. There is nothing in the Constitution that says you speech must be heard or that people should listen.
You are a *guest* here.
"There are religious zealots on this site that tread all over my civil rights with their repetitive dogma justifying their opinions. This IS illegal. "
Your civil rights cannot be violated, by definition, on a web forum graciously provided to you. CD can pull the plug on you or pull the big plug to the whole forum anytime they want. You are not exactly in the public square. You have no right to be here. It's a privilege.
As usual, Jakeboy, your fuddled mind is attempting to redefine, with false logic, intimidation by insult and ostracizing. It is for certain that you are not here by invitation, your here for the joke you are.
"attempting to redefine, with false logic"
Nothing in my last post was false, and the logic is sound. In fact, that post was perfect, and the irony is that it's only this whiny post of yours that is false.
You have no free speech rights on the Common Dreams comment area, and that is that. Shake your fist about it all you want, but you would have been better off not replying.
Artemis what is "destructive?" Am I destructive and should I be banned if I say the old white guys who wrote the Constitution got a few things right and the 2nd amendment was one of them as a check on government power? Serious question, BTW? Remember one persons "shit" is another persons you are really in denial about how you fight actual fascists aren't you? Read Orwell's Homage to Catalonia if you have no idea what I am talking about... Hint it's not just right wingers who are armed, Chavez is (wisely IMO) building a citizen militia to resist a U.S. invasion as we speak.
Will I be allowed to speak this perspective? I am curious...
The United States began as a citizen militia right? I'm thinking the old white guys that wrote the Constitution never meant for it to ossify the way it has...... it's sort of like John McCain and needs to be seriously rejuvenated. It's kind of sickly these days.
If I were Hugo Chavez I'd be putting together more than a citizen militia to resist what our State Department has probably been dreaming of for many years now...... he'd be pretty stupid not to. Destruction is taking a jet full of human beings and flying it into a building and destroying several thousand human beings to make a point. Shock and Awe at the beginning of the Iraq invasion was destruction to make a point. It was saying we are going to do this because we can and because what we want and what we believe is more important than the the value of human life. The last several years we have seen terrorism answered by more and greater terrorism. Destructive speech is speech that has as it's only function to make the hearer feel some kind of shock or gratification that a boundary of commonly accepted decency has been crossed. Bill Maher is really really smart for instance. Howard Stern is too stupid to ever think of anything a fraction as smart as Maher so he's made a name for himself by saying things that appeal to the biology of shock rather than the higher functions. How do I fight back against fascism? Get the hell out of the way......
The hidden Enemy Within is European in origin, consisting of people who lived through and survived the Second World War.
"Republican Tyranny on Display at Corporate Convention?"
"Display of Tyranny at Republican Convention?"
"Convention Display of Republican Tyranny?'
Any and all of the above is sufficient explanation for both parties conventions.
Thanks, Mr. Hedges. I hope your writing is syndicated for all media. A barely heard, derisive laugh.
We should all love a good fight. We want to oblige our 'fight or flight' biological responses. We ARE outraged. We KNOW we live in a fragile shell of 'life denied.' Fuck freedom. I want my LIFE. Freedom is always defined by someone else to define the lives of others. This article is more of the proof. Fuck their 'tyranny.' Definition denied.
It says so on my birth certificate and the Constitution of the country I was born in, served for, contributed to, paid to and participate in.
Lock and load...
Peace died...the day the music stopped.
Huh?!
Peggy
The hidden Enemy Within is European in origin. The scheme for the most prodigious kill-off of humanity in history has been in the planning since the post-World War Two era.
Will it be preceded by a horrendous terrorist attack somewhere in the United States, nuclear in nature? (a large dam, perhaps) Will it be accompanied by a partial or total disablement of the nation's electric power grid?
How will millions of people be effectively traumatized so as to be incapable of preventing their transport to mass death chambers? Think: Convention Centers.
Be persuaded of my knowledge that the chances of being taken seriously in this matter, to the extent that I succeed in preventing what is coming, are cobweb thin.
The Maverick McSame said, "I don't work for Washington DC, I worjk for you!" But he also said he doesn't give a rats ass about popular opinion, "I'd rather lose an election, than a war."
My question is, "How can McSame work for the people if he doesn't give a rats ass about our opinions?"
As we decry the tactics of the Bush era which harken back to those of every authoritarian government of our time, the Republican heart fills with pride that their government is "protecting" them from the "bad guys." If you're not doing anything wrong then what is there to be afraid of? Unfortunately, this logic will not hold up due to the mould they are forming that will allow, if not your own, then your children or your children's children's arrest for standing in the wrong place, looking at the wrong thing or reading the wrong book. This is a baby fascist organization which is aching for an end to the debate. Our way or the highway now, they seem to say, or off to prison you go (because I'm going to protect my family from you (really your ideas) at all costs). As Bush said, it would all be much easier if the U.S. was ruled by dictatorship. Give it time, nurture it with precedent breaking examples such as went down in MInnesota, and in a few years the Republican dream may just come true. Little by little we will receive the New World Order with Republicans captaining the ship and you and yours, if you dissent, in prison. The framework is in place. This ain't the party of Lincoln anymore.
"If you're not doing anything wrong then what is there to be afraid of?"
IT's true that our defense from terrorism is more important than our civil rights. So complaints over civil rights iseems like grasping for political straws to achieve power.
But only if we ignore the fact that the terrorism is blowback to US imperial overreach. And the imperial enterprise is fueled by us, without our consent, without our resistance. The responsibility is ours, the people's, to stop the imperial enterprise from siphoning our energy into its imperial fuel tank.
We have to vote the imperialists out. We have to "vote third party" in all of our individual exchange/association. Only then can we claim to do nothing wrong and have nothing to be afraid of.
rtdrury September 8th, 2008 10:36 pm
"IT's true that our defense from terrorism is more important than our civil rights. So complaints over civil rights iseems like grasping for political straws to achieve power."
"Those who would trade their freedom for a little temporary security deserve neither freedom nor security"
Benjamin Franklin
Lobo Gris
On the contrary, LINCOLN is their model. They love him. He walked all over the constitution too, and aggressed the south unjustly. What's so different?.He was an imperialist too...............lizard
Don't make the mistake of assuming this is a Republican thing.
Much of this I saw here in Denver. There was a difference, in that the Democrats were maybe less extreme, but ...
The Democrats in Denver did ...
-- infiltrate and monitor any group planning protests.
-- target and attack the radical kids who tried to organize an action on Monday night here. That's when most of the couple of hundred of arrests happened here in Denver. At the same time, the police rampaged through the part that was hosting a 'festival of democracy'.
-- target and attack the 'convergence center'. They held anyone who was there when they attacked as hostages for several hours. The difference is they didn't close it permanently like in MN. But it did appear as if one of the goals of the raid was to seize video shot by protesters and independent media.
-- have trucks full of riot police around every protest, peaceful or not. Remember, the IVAW march here, which was very peaceful, was met by hundreds of riot police determined to keep them out of sight of the convention and any delegates. Only when the vets in uniform stood their ground, and the Obama campaign realized that they didn't want the video of police attacking vets in uniform, were they allowed even to deliver a meek letter to the Obama campaign. Judging from Obama's speech the next night, the letter ended up in a trash can.
So, there was a difference. There wasn't the extreme of raids on private homes before hand, or on all the gathering places of the protesters. There wasn't quite the attacks on the media, although some independent journalists were arrested here, and certainly others were 'detained' for hours at a time during both the raid on the convergence center and during Monday night's arrests.
I say this just to warn people to be careful about assuming this is just the Republicans. Remember, the Democrats in Congress have supported every law that lets them do this, and consistently given them immunity when they've gone too far. Trace that back to Clinton and the FBI and his passing of the first domestic anti-terror bills.
----------------------------
"To know, and not to do, is not to know"
www.samsonsworld.blogspot.com
"So, there was a difference. There wasn't the extreme of raids on private homes before hand, or on all the gathering places of the protesters."
Oh come on. I am getting sick of the defense of goon behavior seen here in the Twin Cities. Read carefully: There were not "extreme raids" on ALL gathering places in StPaul. Most of the legal protesters were peaceful and the police didn't do anything to them. What they stoppped were illegal protests (those without permits) and the masked anarchists trashing the town. Yes some innocent people got caught up in the sweeps, as there always are in things like this.
The pre-convention raids netted things like this: Molotov cocktails, homemade plastic shields, buckets of urine, gas masks. Do these things sound like these people were planning a peaceful protest?
kman2 says: "The pre-convention raids netted things like this: Molotov cocktails, homemade plastic shields, buckets of urine, gas masks. Do these things sound like these people were planning a peaceful protest?"
Can you provide a source/sources for this statement? I hadn't heard that the police had found anything significant during these preemptive raids.
Still, I don't believe in the legality of preemptive raids.
ieb September 8th, 2008 8:41 pm
From what I read they found empty glass bottles, containers of gasoline and rags which could be used to make molotov cocktails, not already made ones. The same items can also be used for gasoline for the family lawnmower, rags for cleaning, and empty bottles to make vases if you're into crafts. All of which can be found in many homes with no nefarious intent.
I also read that they found one bucket of urine, not buckets, that was being used for a toilet in an apartment.
Same for the gas mask, I read that they found one, hardly the makings of a revolution.
Lobo Gris
If they aren't doing anything wrong, then why is everything they do labeled "Top Secret"? What are they afraid of? Why did Bush lock up his Daddie's papers from 20 years ago?
There are 750,000 people/groups listed on teh "Questionable Citizens" list. Among them--Am Friends Services Comm (Quakers), Greenpeace, Sea Shepherd (hel dfor 2 mos for refusing to hand over membership lists), Earth First!, SP-USA, CP-USA, everyone who works at The Nation (HARDLY liberal, at times), Nader et l, McKinney, Michael Moore, you would be amazed. That is why the Patriot Act changed almost everything and why it was so important to stand up to changes in the FISA Laws. It matters.
the_idle_wretch
Everything that man esteems
Endures a moment or a day.
Love's pleasure drives his love away,
The painter's brush consumes dreams ;
The herald's cry, the soldier's tread
Exhaust his glory and his might :
Whatever flames upon the night
Man's own resinous heart has fed.
[see "Two songs From a Play" by William Butler Yeats 1865-1939]
What I would like someone to do is this: make a split screen movie of what went on inside at the Republican Convention on one half of the screen, and on the other half of the screen show what was going on outside at the same time.
When people were swooning and chanting "USA is God's Favorite Country" while simultaneously the riot police (so called because they start riots) are pepper spraying non-violent people standing up for their first amendment rights of free speech (also referred to as protesters or terrorists, interchangeable these days), that would be a clear indication of exactly what this country has become (or always has been).
Did anyone from the democratic party leadership speak up about oppressive police actions in Denver or Minneapolis? Thought not.
www.NotOneMore.US September 8th, 2008 3:29 pm
"What I would like someone to do is this: make a split screen movie of what went on inside at the Republican Convention on one half of the screen, and on the other half of the screen show what was going on outside at the same time."
One of the best ideas I have heard in a while. I would pay to go see it and would buy the DVD when it came out.
Lobo Gris
P.S. Michael Moore where are you?
I disagree.
The RNC Welcoming Committee incited damage to property which is a CRIME not a right. Monica Bicking is in jail for it as she should be. RNC Welcoming Committe members will have you believe that they are wearing "masks" to protect them form the pepper spray. Nonsense. Their intention is to cause damage and mayhem and they need to hide their faces.
The flower girl that got blasted with pepper spray was an example of "out of control" cops and shows that there was some brutality on the police side.
We have to keep it real though. If we lie to ourselves then we can't trust anyone anymore.
Marching is one thing. Damaging property is another. Encouraging / recruiting others to help damage property is "inciting to riot" and is against the law.
I'm not on the side of the cops but there has to be some law and the RNC Welcoming Committe is NOT part of MY team.
There has to be some law..........Don't you see the irony in those words?..Break a window, you get jail. Kill 1 million Iraqis in an illegal war and you get to walk away..................lizard
So now wearing a mask is illegal? Total Crap! I've been to many demonstrations where masked "anarchists" wear masks and do nothing wrong at all---no violence, no property destruction. Has it ever occurred to you that wearing a mask is a political statement that says to the cops: It's none of your business who I am if I'm not being violent; stop taking pictures of protestors!
Political speech is still protected by our fascist-soiled constitution...
sierra7
Ha-Ha!!!! We all "wear a mask" mostly from the time we get up to the time we go to bed!!!!
See you all on Holloweenie!!!!!!!!!
Without masks of course!!!!
Keep up your great writing, Chris....
Anarchy is NOT inherently violent. It's about making decisions on a personal or a local level---following your own ideas, not governments.
Even if you are right about the RNC 8, the vast majority of what Hedges says stands. The cops in Minnesota were spoiling for a fight, infiltrating perfectly legitimate and non-violent groups and raiding everyone with the idea of sorting them out later. The mindset in the country now encourages such massive displays of authority. Amy Goodman, while she was in jail, asked a cop what he thought of the "preventive" raids. "Awesome," he replied. An entire generation of law-enforcement and security personnel are being trained to believe that any form of dissent is suspect, and anyone who is suspect is a legitimate target of violent suppression.
sierra7
I would also urge you all to focus on what the police are now equipped with....it is very revealing...think back to other conventions decades ago......there is now a very fine line between what equips police from that which is borne by the military...Ever since Patriot 2 millions $$$$ have been allocated thru government programs to up-equip the "local" police so as to be ready to crush any kind of "resistance" whatsoever....
When will Americans realize that the barbed/razor wire fence is surrounding them more and more...we are really not "looking in," but "looking out!"
We are descending into a black hole....fast...
sierra7 September 8th, 2008 7:18 pm
"I would also urge you all to focus on what the police are now equipped with....it is very revealing...think back to other conventions decades ago......there is now a very fine line between what equips police from that which is borne by the military..."
A lot of money is also being spent on development of non lethal weapons. Directed sound which is loud enough to bring one to ones knees with pain without affecting those standing behind it. Directed microwaves which make the skin heat up and cause a burning sensation, just to describe two of the ones I've seen.
Lobo Gris
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.” — John F. Kennedy
Wouldn't surprise me in the least to hear that those involved in property damage were planted provocateurs similar to those at Seattle.
Don't forget the SPP summit in Montebello Quebec (aug 2007) where the police were caught on film and later admited to using agents provocateur as SOP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAfzUOx53Rg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWbgnyUCC7M
http://www.infowars.net/articles/august2007/220807Provocateurs_SPP.htm
notice the faux anachist gear. except for the boots...
Yes and I do remember indymedia documenting so called "anarchists" stepping OUT of police vans with photos. It's also true people were allowed to smash windows in Seattle while non violent protesters were tackled and tear gassed Alas I have never been able to regoogle them up. If anyone can find that link PLEASE post it here.
While SOME of what happened is no doubt our own stupidity it's not all of it for sure.
Was there any evidence of that in Seattle, or in St. Paul?
Seattle, as I recall. My suspicion is St Paul.
Would you be surprised?
I just don't recall confirmation that it happened in Seattle. Thanks.
Surprise. The people who were arrested in Seattle won a huge settlement from the City of Seattle for wrongful arrest etc. It was actually a class action lawsuit. The police were totally out of control....
The police in St Paul were also totally out of control.
Peggy
sierra7
Rudy Guiliani's actions during 2006 political in New York are now costing the State of New York $$$$$$$$$$$$$ multi tens of millions (I think about 150M) for unlawful detention at that time...Give this period of convention follies time to settle down and the stories of the suits filed will be in the media....
Watch FSTV, LINK TV, GRIT TV etc.......that's where the stories are.
Sierra7, aren't you talking about the round up of protesters at the Republican National Convention in 2004 (not 2006) in NYC? Yes, it was ugly and the overnight holding area was a horrible place. Few benches to sit on, oil slicks on the cement floor, limited access to toilet facilities, no water, or telephones, etc.
sierra7 September 8th, 2008 7:22 pm
The only problem with lawsuits like that are the fact that the only ones who end up paying for it are the taxpayers, you and me. It would be much better and more effective if the lawsuits could be brought against the individuals involved.
Lobo Gris
It is kinda difficult to "confirm" actions taken by a secret program. COINTELPRO wasn't "confirmed" until years after its most active and harmful period, for instance.
All I know that isn't hearsay or rumor is that one of the groups of window-smashers in Seattle seemed a bit off -a little too to themselves, a little bit too calm and unfearing- to me, like they weren't really just the bunch of "black bloc" kids from Portland they were made out to be. Of course many people had or have theories, but I can't "confirm" them because I did not make a Citizen's Arrest of any of these guys and then provoke them to confess their status as government agent -providing me with undeniable documentation proving this to be true, just to seal the deal.
I know nothing that isn't hearsay or from media reports about St. Paul as I wasn't there.
Seattle '99, just like the more recent, more politically oriented "protests" such as at the RNC in St. Paul always play out as "large and peaceful gatherings, speeches and marches" that then are interrupted by a "small group" which "splits off" and "commits violent acts" -code for property distruction, such as windows. The "Police" are then "forced" or "obliged" to "respond" to this "violence" and the police riot begins.
The only difference over the years seems to be the preparedness of the "law-enforcement agencies". From Seattle where they were hardly ready at all and so allowed the police riot to get so out of control -gassing local residents, abusive violence against submissive protesters which sparked anger from the general group- that it carved itself a permanent place in history, to St. Paul where they have advanced to the level of pre-arresting core groups and media and activist witness-groups and over a dozen journalists with official event ID, the difference in the organization of Control is stark.
And at every point of this escalation of Control and impositon of Authoritarianism the basic script of the "protest action" -peaceful march, split-off violence, police repression, large scale passive arrests- has been followed by the "protesters" and used by the "police" to justify a still further push toward Control.
Yet STILL people fall into this trap? Some kids STILL think it is a good idea to smash some shit up? The main body of the group STILL cannot think of any way to hinder them? It seems fantastic that a group of people who claim to -and arguably do- know better than most everyone else how things should be in our Society and how it should be run would remain so consistently foolish, or lazy, or weak, or naive, doesn't it?
So the "agent provacateur" idea gives people a more settling narrative. One that -however bewildering it may be in its hopless mismatch and complexity- provides the more comfortable division of "good guys" (protesters, media, Citizens) vs. "bad guys" (provacatuers, police agencies, Oligarchs).
This is more attractive to people than "Capable, intellegent, organizations of Control for Profit" vs. "Well-meaning, but hopelessly naive and stupid people who are in way over their head and can't even organize themselves let alone stand a chance against their enemy".
Personally, I think if their are any "agent provacateurs" at these actions, they are very few. As seen in St. Paul the "American" drive to smash thing with blunt force seems reflected in Internal Repression ("law enforcement") by spying on and shutting down groups that may be organized or capable enough to actual get something going.
I think the "provacateurs" aren't "agents". I think that there are enough foolish people in the World always ready to harm their own cause, and enough selfish people in the World always ready to use anything as an excuse for indulging their own unthinking desires to more than account for all the "window-smashers" et al. at every one of these "protests". So here, in closing, is a message to them.
Stop getting yourself arrested kids, stop smashing shit up -its working against your cause, or at least the one you profess to believe in.
So wise up already -if you care, that is.
Have Fun,
-matti.
Standard operating procedure.
What makes you think it is any different for home grown "terrorism"?
http://www.fas.org/irp/cia/guerilla.htm
Your operative wording, "I think...," rapidly becomes "I remember..." as in: conventional behavior modification of any animal is achieved by two forces, negative and positive. No food or food, harm or no harm, broken window or no broken window.
It is impossible to be a whole person, or culture, when contradictory concepts prevent formulation, resolution and closure. This is why there are definitions to 'think' and 'remember.'
Just because you remember something does not denote that your brain is functioning beyond response/reward, irrespective of the ability to 'articulate brain activity."
Otherwise, more than horses or dogs would be able to talk.
So would jackasses and elephants. Not to mention, giraffes.
This just in:
"Apparently responding to criticism [from McCain/Palin campaign] about liberal political bias, MSNBC has removed its two political hot-potato co-anchors, Keith Olbermann and Chris Matthews, from the network's election coverage."
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jlhzoRPoTjgeV9vNrGXaMN2AUGLwD932MSBG0
1984 in 2008.
.
Politics of Avoidance
Written by Ralph Nader...
The “politics of avoidance” is receiving a great deal of media attention during this period of national political conventions. Unfortunately, the newspapers and television programs do not use the phrase: “the politics of avoidance.” Together with John McCain and Barack Obama, members of the press have become used to living the “politics of avoidance” every day by not asking, talking or reporting about the essential core of what politics should be about—power!
Power! Who has it? Who doesn’t have it? Who should have less of it and who should have more of it? What does concentrated power do to the everyday life of the people as workers, patients, consumers, taxpayers, voters, shareholders and citizens?
Just use these and other power yardsticks and watch how thin and how superficial daily political reporting, even by the best of the press, can become.
(continue at) http://www.nader.org/
.
It is also about deliberate provocation of legitimate protesters and the journalists covering them in order to incite a violent response from them and by so doing justify even more repressive measures.
What we need are a cloud of silent witnesses with cameras with telephoto lens and long range microphones covering these happenings in order to show such totalitarian measures for what they are.
What happened to the Democracy Now crew and other local journalists was intolerable. There should be other ways to just as effectively cover such a story without getting beat up by out of control cops and federal authorities who have the anger management skills of a two year old.
Poet
Also wireless connections to the internet and remote recording stations to thwart the effect of the destruction of sd cards
Great and important points to make... thank you for writing this Chris Hedges!!!
Part and parcel with limited news coverage, propaganda and fear mongering have manipulated and blinded people into accepting fewer and fewer civil liberties. It is an ever-worsening spiral and could very well culminate into a full-blown theocracy.
The only time I look at CNN or MSNBC is to check whether or not they've picked up a particular story that appeared in the indy press days earlier.
Perhaps we should start a serious mobilization effort throughout this country... a friendly conversation asking people where they get their news and a suggestion of alternate independent news sources they might try?
I would say, CNN, FOX and MSNBC resemble reality television pretty consistently these days. And reality television isn't news... not by a long shot!
Absolutely: T-shirts, bill boards, lawn signs that allow people to know where to get real news. I have long believed this was a good idea....................lizard
It's a Walmart nation. Just don't question it.
Watergate was small potatoes compared with post-911 neoconservative stuff. I believe Watergate was the tip of the iceberg then, and there is a shadow government under the Bush administration.
Riot: A violent disturbance of the public peace by three or more persons assembled for a common purpose.
Wonder how the State intends to prove a person was "conspiring" to join at least two other people with a plan to create a violent disturbance. The same way they intend to prove Amy Goodman was "obstructing" a police officer by asking to see his commanding officer, all of which was done on camera, apparently...
Do you have zee papers? Zee papers, please.
Sadly, they shouldn't have any trouble finding a jury full of people who are big fans of the show COPS-- many commented here and at Glenn Greenwald's posts at Salon.com.
They insist that an "objective" view of the video clearly shows that Amy was "trying" to get herself arrested by "crossing the line" and acting like a prima donna.
One writer-- he'll be the jury foreman, no doubt-- explained condescendingly that Amy should have known that the correct procedure to inquire into the status of her colleagues was to go to the nearest police station and politely inquire, rather than disrupt the Nice Policemen while they were busy in the middle of a Crime Scene.
I wouldn't be surprised if COPS dedicated a show or two to the Imperial Stormtrooper goon work at the convention(s).
That reminds me of when I was pulled over by 2 cops, who left me sitting in my car for so long I was wondering what was going on, so I got out and went to ask them. One started screaming at me to get back in the car! He had his hand on his gun.
I was ranting at work the next day about the police state and how outrageous it was for that cop to go for his gun. I am 5'4" and 110 pounds. Believe me, I don't look like a threat to anyone.
The consensus was that I had "asked for it" by getting out of my car. The "rule" is that you stay in your car. Really? Where is that in the Driver's Manual? Well, I should just "know".
It used to be that you had to get out of your car. At some point, they changed the rules, and everyone should just "know", and if you don't, it's fine with many that you be killed. I mean it, they said that. I was "lucky" that they hadn't shot me.
A police state will be easy to finalize with the slave minded sycophants that comprise our body public.
Very, very true. And one of the reasons BTW that if we get a real police state with mass imprisonment that I think the tough paleo-cons and militia people who will fight back might better friends to us on the hard left than the "liberals" in the cafes who will just turn their backs and go "oh dear" if they even see it all on the sanitized media. After all that's what already happened to Amy Goodman, I-Watch Video collective and Glass Bead video collective, right? Do a google search if you don't know what I am talking about. Even if we don't know what time it is here on CDs the kids on digg.com do and the Ron Paul people and hard lefties are talking a lot there, go check it out, it's VERY interesting.
I'd add one last note too that the RNC people seized buttons, signs, and political literature of Ron Paul DELEGATES at the RNC convention. It's not just those of us on the hard left feeling the fascist heat.
PRECISELY....lizard
Blue Thunder
In the near future countries that are heading toward totalitarian fascist rule will say "well, we are not America , but we soon will be!" and everyone will shake with trepidation and fear!
Craig Brown said that "the tone and level of discourse by a few was driving readers away." Now our comments are hidden so their delicate eyesight and intellect won't be offended by new or different ideas. Sure, it's easy to click on the button "show all" whenever I want to see readers' comments, which is always. But now it has become a furtive act, and I don't think I want to post on a website that is ashamed of free speech.
This unwelcome change took place immediately after the death of Lina Newhouser. That was no coincidence. Will moderation of comments soon follow? If so, then Common Dreams will become a truly Republican website and you will have been prescient in abandoning it. The day after the death of Tim Russert I made unflattering comments about him (all of which were thoroughly deserved) and got ripped a new one by several commenters for speaking ill of the dead, showing lack of decorum, etc. Those are the kind of sentiments which gave impetus to these changes on CD. George Carlin and Bill Hicks would not be happy.
I think they might hold up comments they don't like until later when most have moved on. If you notice the "edit" link that is below your comment when posted, you'll see it stays sometimes for more than a day. My question (and I emailed CD this and got no answer): Is the comment visible to others with the "edit" link? If not, why does it stay for some comments and not others? Who decides?
And, last time I tried to post something like this CD got all glitchy---just like now...
FWIW: Ironically, when CD first imposed the Great Reformation to the comments, I launched an e-mail screed to someone I thought I knew well-- a grown-up progressive who, AFAIK, didn't himself comment here, but who often referenced or linked CD articles over the years.
I was flabbergasted when he replied that he had long since stopped reading CD comments because of all the "anger" and vitriol-- he said he felt like he was being spiritually raped. At least, I think that's what he said. In all fairness, he was sympathetic to my rant-- given your "weltanschauung", he wrote, I know this is a dagger in your heart.
I frankly can't come to terms with literate adults who either "can't take" strong emotion, or don't just scroll past posts that bother them. I'm not one of those people who have read a lot of Marx and throw around Marxist-sounding clichés, but I do characterize the "nice-nelly" standard of blog comments as evidencing a bourgeois sensibility.
There must be some Style Guide floating around out there, because the trash-tabloid Huffington Post, which I've abandoned, also frowns upon things like Speaking Ill of the Dead-- and especially Speaking Ill of their "Guest" Contributors, no matter how stupid or faulty their writing. Feh.
Spiritually raped?? He ought to be used to it as it is the modus operandi of corporate culture. The idea is to "spiritually rape" all of us until we don't know the difference between "bringing democracy" to "backward" nations and mass murder, or between the "folks" at Wal-Mart and a vital, spiritually rich community.
Was it the Tim Russert thing? Yes, I was rough on him, too (he thoroughly deserved it); but isn't it kind of childish and milquetoastish to let one of the rapists off the hook to satisfy "convention" and "decency"? Don't we need a more robust and useful definition of decency, something that maybe includes justice and excludes (forever and thoroughly) mass murder, for example?
Spiritually raped?? He ought to be used to it as it is the modus operandi of corporate culture. The idea is to "spiritually rape" all of us until we don't know the difference between "bringing democracy" to "backward" nations and mass murder, or between the "folks" at Wal-Mart and a vital, spiritually rich community.
Was it the Tim Russert thing? Yes, I was rough on him, too; but isn't it kind of childish and milquetoastish to let one of the rapists off the hook to satisfy "convention" and "decency"? Don't we need a more robust and useful definition of decency, something that maybe includes justice and excludes (forever and thoroughly) mass murder, for example?
Jeez!
The discussions on this site are positively civil compared to almost any other websites or blogs - especially those on the right!
"Spriitually raped" - what a typical liberal, wishy-washy, hand-wringing, milquetoast, effete, yuppie, latte-sipping, Zoloft- or-Paxil taking, bunch of new-age-mumbo-jumbo!
The Fox News website seems to consistently moderate their comment sections allowing little to no dissent. Remarkable! By contrast, truly "fair-minded" publications allow views from all sides.
I would encourage progressives to test out this theory. Try to post comments on the Fox News website and alert us as to your success/failure.
Propaganda? I'm thinking absolutely!!!
There are plenty of unmoderated discussions on USENET. Low signal to noise ratio though.
"Will moderation of comments soon follow?" -Mordechai Shiblikov
There is moderation of comments on this site: on a couple occasions, I have become interested in reading an extended discussion and exchange and have watched users with unconventional or unpopular dissent get excised from the debate, their comments deleted. The pattern: before deletion, the label of "troll" has been applied to such users by vocal party-progressive-style users, and I guess the systems administrators for this site agreed; in at least a couple cases I have seen users whose usernames, signatures, or comments I recognize from other progressive sites get deleted, then all who express solidarity or support for their views get accused of "sock puppetry" or have their user names blocked. If the deletions were all badly-thought out, poorly written, and intentionally designed to offend, it would seem justified in the name of preserving productive debate, but this is not the case.
It seems clear that "trolling" has been used as an excuse for censorship based on political expediency.
In contrast to your view, by no stretch of the imagination do I think this makes this a Republican website; however, it does call into question whether it is "Progressive."
I think they might hold up comments they don't like until later when most have moved on. If you notice the "edit" link that is below your comment when posted, you'll see it stays sometimes for more than a day. My question (and I emailed CD this and got no answer): Is the comment visible to others with the "edit" link? If not, why does it stay for some comments and not others? Who decides?
I think they might hold up comments they don't like until later when most have moved on. If you notice the "edit" link that is below your comment when posted, you'll see it stays sometimes for more than a day. My question (and I emailed CD this and got no answer): Is the comment visible to others with the "edit" link? If not, why does it stay for some comments and not others? Who decides?
Not completely. Ever been to the Nation? Their comment section is a swamp of Republican goons who camp out on the threads for a little liberal bashing sport free-for-all. Basically, they smear feces all over the place. On the other hand, Democratic Underground traditionally bows to Centrist-Zionist pressure to silence the progressive Left. Since the last time I posted here, I noticed an increase in Freeper types with an obvious agenda, missionary zeal and circle jerks as the amen chorus. Where do you draw the line?
Vern, all our comments weren't hidden from view to deal with troublemakers, unless you want to characterize all CD commenters as such.
I don't really know what purpose it serves, other than to suggest to those who complain that they have the option not to participate by not clicking.
It makes it easier for those hounded with whiners to deflect complaints.
They always had the option of not participating, or not reading the comments if they're so offended by them.
I can't count the number of posts of mine that have been culled from CD. I am simply writing what I believe, and my words get censored. I've never once been antagonistic or beligerent ~ I just don't always go along with the crowd. I march to my own political drummer. Why does that happen?
I do not believe that there is anyway out of this.
When I saw a tape of Governor's Palin's speech and the crowd responding to her dripping contempt for her opposition by unified chants of "USA ! USA!", and also being aware of the police state tactics going on in St. Paul, I felt transported to a version of Nuremberg, 1934, except I do not believe that the Republicans had a talented film maker such as Riefenstahl at hand.
Collapse into tyranny, disorder, and economic crisis is at hand, and changes in political leadership will not reverse the process. In a perverse sort of way, it may actually work out better for an unabashed militarist and apologist for the status quo like McCain to win rather than a faux progressive like Obama who is just as much an apologist but who is only much smarter and slicker.
At least the blame will land where it belongs, small comfort as that is.
Did anyone else notice the rediculous and HUMOROUS costumes the troops were wearing? Talk about being "overdressed" I hope someone had the courage to ask them if they knew how STUPID they looked.
They are rehearsals. Nothing stupid about that............lizard
Anyone who witnessed, or watched the video of, that poor woman being pepper-sprayed by an Imperial Stormtrooper merely because she was holding a flower out to them would need a LOT of courage to tell them how stoopit they looked.
I feel like a teenager masturbating behind a closed door when I post on this website, like I'm doing something illicit or somehow socially objectionable.
Craig Brown said that "the tone and level of discourse by a few was driving readers away." Now our comments are hidden so that progressive readers' delicate eyesight and intellect won't be offended by new or different ideas. Sure, it's easy to click on the button "show all" whenever I want to see readers' comments, which is always. But now it has become a furtive act, and I don't think I want to post on a website that is ashamed of free speech.
Chris Hedges speaks the truth, by the way. Maybe Common Dreams should hide articles like his by default, and require readers to click a "show all" button to read them, so they won't be exposed to Chris's opinions by mistake.
Yesterday I posted on a cbsnews.com forum entitled "Russian Prez Puts West On Notice." The forum was dominated by a pack of yahoo thugs who were urging war with Iran and Russia, and labeling all those who opposed them as traitors. As soon as I pointed out to them that starting a nuclear war with Russia because our leaders tell us to hate Russia is not only immoral but national suicide, the CBS editor banned me. I'm also banned from contacting the editors about my ban.
I refuse to be ashamed, or afraid, of the truth.
Really? If you were banned for such innocuous comments, the how is the following comment still posted?
"Posted by Nancy_Naive
Hopefully just america and its puppet allies will be extinct. Russia will survice, as will other parts of the globe. america doesnt have a hope. Probably a good thing for humankind too the way they have been going since the 50s."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/06/world/main4422709.shtml?source=search_story
"Sure, it's easy to click on the button "show all" whenever I want to see readers' comments, which is always. But now it has become a furtive act, and I don't think I want to post on a website that is ashamed of free speech."
Sorry... I don't see it that way. Anyone who has ever moderated a site (controversial or not), that allows individuals to post opinion, will know that there are people who absolutely do NOT want anyone to challenge their viewpoint... and will manufacture any number of reasons for censoring.
There are many tasks that moderators must deal with. most often, one of them is repeatedly addressing the grievances of those who do not understand that the only reason they are allowed to post, is for the same reason which they are advocating against... free and open speech.
The absolute defense against that kind of stupidity is to insure that it was their choice to expose themselves to other viewpoints... and only their choice. There is no counter to that defense. It shuts them up immediately and totally invalidates the basis of their belief that words can hurt them (or more often... others, in their assumed role of "protector").
"Free speech" is not absolute, nor does it manifest without reasonable balance. Get over the mouseclick. A good moderator does not need to deal with that kind of crap on a daily basis. It's counter-productive.
I have been scrubbed or banned from so many sites... including Huffington. I appreciate (so far) the degree of latitude that CD offers, and don't feel one mouseclick is too high a price for that "freedom". I like the changes.
I disagree slightly. I WAS banned from here earlier for advocating for the 2nd amendment from a hard left Chavez like position. As I said then lets try non violence FIRST ala Ghandi and Dr. King but realize it may not work. You all realize that Chris Hedges is talking about a fascist police state here, right? The next step is cattle cars, I for one will not be peacefully or tranquilly loaded on a cattle car I'll use the shooting skills I learned growing up in the woods to go down fighting, YMMV and I respect that, but when push comes to shove I am a survivor not a saint. I of course hope it doesn't get to that and we are able to turn the tide with good hearted non violent protest and eloquent words.
Remember though, even in Starhawk's Fifth Sacred Thing there were snipers in the woods...
Go ahead and ban me if you feel you must be I will keep saying MY truth up until you do...
Yeah,
And I was banned from CD for posting a link to a copy of an letter, and in other posts, the text, of a letter Senator Obama wrote to the UN last year, fully supporting Israels Gaza brutality.
Let me try it again with this new system:
http://jewishstandard.net//content_images/ObamaLetterbig.jpg
And, for a while, merely having "banned words" like "Zionist" or "General Strike" amongst others, in your post sent it to a moderation queue, and usually, the trash.
Hey General Strike shows up now that is an advancement because it's something we REALLY need IMO.
Nah. Our hypothetical "offended" progressives have a choice: read or don't read the comments. There is no counter to THAT defense. Unless you want to equate debate with pornography and claim that the sight of it on a page is objectionable to you.
Of course no one has a right to shout "fire!" in a crowded theater, but that's a reductio ad absurdum that has no applicability to written comments. With respect to so-called "balanced" free speech, it's a strictly mythical beast that exists only in the minds [sic] of wannabe censors who cannot tolerate dissent or diversity.
Oh, yes, and the mouseclick requirement, as I stated in my post, is not the problem. The problem is the mentality behind the requirement, which apparently assumes that progressives are simply unable to contend with free speech.
"Unless you want to equate debate with pornography and claim that the sight of it on a page is objectionable to you."
Although you seem to want to point to one group (progressives), I can attest that the desire to control through censorship is one that crosses lines, but yes... that's just about the childish extent of the claims at times... and as you might guess, they can go way past "bothersome" when it's a coordinated attack. For a moderator to continually deal with the adolescent crying or political tactics behind many of those demands for censorship, is as I previously posted... counter-productive.
"...reductio ad absurdum that has no applicability to written comments."
Are you saying that there is nothing that you can't write that would exceed the boundaries applied to free speech? I would disagree. Even if you are merely joking... there are specific prohibitions that violated, can lead directly to legal action against you or the blog owner, or the service provider (or all).
"Oh, yes, and the mouseclick requirement, as I stated in my post, is not the problem. The problem is the mentality behind the requirement, which apparently assumes that progressives are simply unable to contend with free speech."
Again, I do not agree with your assessment of the change and certainly not the finger point to one group. Have you ever moderated? It only takes one paid troll to create an enormous headache for a moderator... not so much as to what that person posts, but that individual's almost certain demands for censorship that usually follow.
By requiring one mouseclick, the act effectively insures that individual is not EVER required to view ANY commentary... that it takes an active choice on the part of any individual to access it, defeats most any call for censorship. Choice is the determining factor.
That it is only one mouseclick, makes your objection seem like you are whining about nothing... to me. But then, it's been so long since I was a teenager masturbating behind a closed door that I've forgotten what you must be experiencing on a continual basis. I'm guessing that you'll get over it, or go away "mad".
No, toast. I repeat from my previous post: "our hypothetical 'offended' progressives have a choice: read or don't read the comments."
Yes, I've moderated forums. It's easy to deal with defamers and trash-talkers without punishing everyone else as well.
I'm not singling out, or pointing at, progressives for being intolerant. Progressives are by definition tolerant. Ergo: those who are offended by diverse opinions are not progressives. Am I mad? No, disgusted and disappointed would be more accurate. Will I get over it? Emphatically no. But let those who don't mind having their opinions hidden continue to post their opinions largely unnoticed. When you demonstrate against war criminals, go to caged areas, like obedient sheep, so the war criminals’ delicate sensibilities will not be wounded by the sight of all those nasty protesters saying all those nasty things.
It is actually a brialliant manuever to diffuse those who might wage an organized effort to sabotage progressive discussion--by making it a choice to participate.
Off the top of my head, I can think of two instances presently in the news where this relates. One, the insistance by Republicans to gag MSNBC's KO in particular and the deliberate effort to sabotage any protest action via infiltration. That is the mentality sites like CD are up against.
I have experienced a few glitches when posting and my inclination was to become paranoid and jump to conclusions, but eventually realized it was technical rather than deliberate--at least not by CD. I have been on other computers that allow access to the threads, but not the ability to post.
ha! You seem to believe that I can't grasp what you are attempting to say. I get it. I just don't believe you really have any argument. This one mouseclick tool is probably a better option for dealing with those who opt for censorship as a tactic, than any other easy option. Your attempt to equate its acceptance to that of compliant caged sheep is beyond absurd. It is childish. You are exchanging with someone who has lived in the street as a war protester since 67. It's NOT the same thing. It's not even close.
You are whining about nothing. You might better serve your viewpoints by focusing on issues that are important.
That mouseclick keeps the trolls at bay by rendering ineffectual, one of their most often used weapons of protest. One that often leads to censorship. They now have no real basis for complaint, as the choice is TOTALLY theirs. It allows a less constrained dialog. That you refuse to concede that point is telling.
And obviously, we have had entirely different moderating experiences. Read or don't read SHOULD be enough of a solution, but almost never is. That one mouseclick stills that particular debate.
Either you can't grasp what I'm saying or you're ignoring it. Whatever. Continue to post your hidden comments without worry of offending any innocent eyes or minds [sic]. I agree that you don't have to worry about getting censored anymore, because you already have been permanently censored. Obviously "balanced" free speech is good enough for you. If it works for ya, run with it!
""Free speech" is not absolute, "
Agreed, and one might consider that CD doesn't have to provide an interactive forum and could just pull the plug anytime they don't think it's worth the hassle.
John McCain = Robert Mugabe. Sarah Palin = Ma Barker. Rudolph Giuliana = Max Schreck. Mitt Romney = Frank Hackett (see Robert Duvall in "Network"). George Wanker Bush = Emperor Joseph II (see Jeffrey Jones in "Amadeus"). Cheesedick Cheney = The Joker ("Some people just like to watch the world burn"). Barack Obama = Woodrow Wilson (minus the racism). Joe Biden = Frank Nitti. The United States = The Island of Lost Souls.
The equation of obama with Woodrow Wilson is the most accurate I've come across. But he's a Wilson at the twilight of empire rather than a Wilson at the dawning of one.
The US isn't an "island of lost souls": we're a nation saddled with a jury-rigged system comprised of some extremely advanced principles and some extremely antiquated ones. We have a Bill of Rights, but we have an electoral college; we have a balance of powers in theory, but in reality a militarist authoritarian state, as attested by the use of "Commander-in-Chief" as the most frequent description of the office of the president. We have access to all available perspectives from around the globe through the internet, and yet we have no real discourse with the people around us, in our own neighborhoods. A neofascist propaganda organization has been allowed to function as a news organization, and yet an openly gay married woman has just earned a prominent spot on a network supported by one of the largest moneyed-interests in the country.
Possibilities abound because threats are pervasive.
Use the opportunity available to create more opportunity.
Thank you Chris. It's important for all of us to get back to the street. Virtual protest is invisible protest.
.
http://www.libertyforlife.com/jail-police/us-concentration_camp-locations.htm
Where do you live?
44 States listed…
http://www.libertyforlife.com/jail-police/us_concentration_camps.htm
.
Problems with this article: No references provided. No author listed. Why should we believe it?
Even funnier, if you read on to some of the other links it refers to 300k Soviet troops already here...
That being said, a concentration camp is very easy to build. They're cheap, can be set up in a month and are not likely to be near cities. But why use them if you don't have to? The media is doing a wonderful job at convincing the yanks that tyranny is freedom, war is peace and that ignorance is strength.
• KBR has been awarded a contract announced by the Department of Homeland Security’s United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) component. The Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity contingency contract is to support ICE facilities and has a maximum total value of $385 million over a five-year term. The contract provides for establishing temporary detention and processing capabilities in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the United States, or to support the rapid development of new programs.
_______________________________________
Excerpt from a Halliburton press released linked at the site, which I just visited to see what, if any references were provided. I guess the next question from the "Devil's Advocate Generator" is "How do we know it's a genuine Halliburton press release?"
And so on, ad infinitum.
The listed "camps" appear to be existing facilities that have been around forever. The contract is a *contingency* contract. The photos aren't attributed to any particular place, the claim that the camps are staffed is unsupported. Nothing listed here by the unknown author indicates anything has actually been done yet. It's a big nothing from the looks of it.
"It does not matter that the RNC Welcoming Committee describes itself as an "anarchist/anti-authoritarian" organization. We don't have to embrace a political agenda to protect the right to be heard. Shut down free speech and radicals only burrow deeper underground, splitting ossified political systems into fractured extremes. We may well end up with the Christian right on one side, with politicians like Sarah Palin providing an ideological veneer to a Christian fascism, and embittered leftist radicals who turn to violence on the other."
The 'right to be heard' IS a political agenda; and it can only be backed up by resistance when christofascists proclaim that God authorizes them to beat, imprison, silence, and kill enemies.
It's strange that the author doesn't realize that he himself would be regarded as an "embittered leftist radical" merely for his book "American Fascists".
The people who cheered the fascist rally in St. Paul love the forces of order; and all resistance merely proves to them that they were right, while non-violent resistance proves the same.
The Bush administration has absorbed top level KGB and Stasi personnel since 2001. No surprise that the government is now behaving like the Soviet and GDR governments.
You become what you hate.
Links please? I don't doubt you for a minute but I'd like to read more about this, thanks!
Chris Hedges is one of my heroes. Amy Goodman is another. A lot of what they writes scares the shit out of me, but it is scary because it is true.
I just want to quibble a tiny bit, though. CH writes: "The Patriot Act, which was put in place as much to silence domestic opposition as to ferret out real terrorists, has largely lain dormant." I personally believe that the Patriot Act was MOSTLY intended to be a tool of domestic oppression, and any effect on "real" terrorists was pretty much accidental.
In other words, our rulers consider us to be their real enemy. They realize that a bunch of Arabs with IEDs in the Mideast are small potatoes compared to a well armed (their NRA makes sure we are armed!) civilian uprising here.
War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength.
"The Patriot Act... has largely lain dormant."
I do not agree with CH on this. The PA (and PA II) was the most sweeping and imporatant legislation that has been written in this country for over 60 years (and that includes the Bill of Rights). Almost everything that has changed (or got worse) in the last 8 years has it's legal basis in the PA. Military tribunals, extraordinary rendition, Gitmo, FISA on steroids, signing statements and executive privilege, handling of non-permitted demonstrations, probable cause search and seizure, Blackwater and privatizing war, embedding journalists, ban on pictures of returning dead US soldiers, no-fly lists, the polarization of America ("you are either with us, or against us"), etc, etc, etc.
And above all, implementing the tactics of FEAR.
Yeah, I totally agree. I had the same tiny quibble when reading through the article, which is otherwise excellent (as usual, for Hedges -- who really, really gets it).
“The vapid interviews, the ridiculous soap opera sagas about Sarah Palin's daughter and the debate about whether John McCain or Barack Obama has proprietary rights to "Change" divert us from the truth of who we have become.”
Were the protesters not treated in a similar way at the Dem party affair? It should be instructive to Americans to see how easily McCain parroted Obama’s empty “change” mantra. Indeed, not surprisingly, the Democratic policy positions can just as easily serve the Republicans seeing as they emanate from the same moneyed interests.
"Parroted" is the operative word. Everything that his party does & that he's pledged himself to do demonstrates that they believe that it's an empty slogan; and the people who keep saying that Obama's use of the word is empty are doing Karl Rove's work for him.
Obama is a meliorist, which means that there will be real changes, some decisive, some negotiated, some deferred. To believe that science is a reliable guide in making public policy decisions would be a real change from an executive branch staffed with people who do not believe that evolution is a fact or that human beings are in fact responsible for climate deterioration. It would be a real change to have an executive branch whose officials do not believe in that all authority flows from the executive branch, and who believe that they are above the law pertaining to all other citizens. It would be a real change to have officials who do not believe that God has granted them power to compel women to bear every child she happens to conceive.
"and the people who keep saying that Obama's use of the word is empty are doing Karl Rove's work for him."
So criticizing the corporate party means I'm secretly a Republican, gee, we've never heard that one before.
Saint-Just, I hear your concern about the theists. I find them hard to understand as I live in a democracy and we don’t have their like here. Do you know why? It is because we vote for parties that give us what we want like peace and decent healthcare and not for the “lesser of two evils”.
In Canada health care came because of Tommy Douglas and the NDP, a party that has never been in power. The NDP forced the liberals leftward and has kept doing it ever since. The result is a leftist tendency in Canada (tendency only). Had the people concentrated exclusively on wether the NDP could realistically win (it cannot and never has) this would not have happened. The system in Canada punishes third parties, but the NDP survives to this day and continues to do a good job of pulling the Liberals leftward to prevent the NDP's growth. Of course, it must be granted, Canadians are not as obtuse........................................lizard
It might also be time to read or re-read Orwell's 1984.
Why did this come about? WAR. War justifies virtually every power government grabs for itself. Makes no difference which of the major parties --- or, more precisely, which faction of the War Party --- is in power, so please don't expect roll-back from Obama, should he win.
And as for McCain, expect it to get worse -- and quickly.
Time to read IRON HEEL by Jack London.
Hoa binh
The future the christofascists want is more like Margaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale. From the wikipedia summary:
"The novel explores themes of women in subjugation, and the various means by which they gain agency, against the backdrop of a totalitarian evangelical-Christian theocracy which has overthrown the United States government in the near future. Sumptuary laws (dress codes) play a key role in imposing social control within the new society."
The Handmaid's Tale is one of the most frightening dystopian novels that I've read.
I saw coverage of this on Democracy Now! I no longer watch any corporate media (i.e. mainstream) - was there any coverage of it or is the corporate media complicit in their silence?? How do we make people understand that we are allready there and it's not something in the future?
Weren't similar tactics used against protesters at the Democratic Convention?
The ruling class (fronted by both democratic and republican party leadership) not only lack the desire to listen to the general public's concerns, they have the power to exclude public participation by any means necessary, including violating basic constitutional and human rights. Why should they worry their pretty little minds thinking about injustices that occur in their quest for profit and power?
It is why I cannot, nor will not, support the corporate candidates Obama or McCain. Both fail to meet the minimum standards of supporting basic tenets of peace, justice, and liberty for all.
By voting for Obama, you are lowering the bar again of what you find acceptable.
Vote Green Party, vote Nader.
Thank you for your support of a third party movement.
Elections, especially presidential elections, are a *risky* time for the political establishment. ... Why? ... Because those in power -- the oligarchic-few -- know that while they have the power and the wealth, the democratic-many have the numbers. Indeed, in terms of sheer numbers, the democratic-many *dwarf* those in power, the oligarchic few.
This is why the oligarchic few fear elections. Because casting a vote is the easiest thing an average citizen can do to express their dissatisfaction with the status quo, i.e., "things as they are."
The average citizen, to express their political dissatisfaction, doesn't have to march ... they don't have to picket ... they don't have to boycott ... they don't have to lie down in front of trains (as Gandhi led people to do in India) .. they don't have to go to jail ... they don't have to bear arms. ... All they have to do is cast a ballot.
And because this is such a easy thing to do, such a conveneint thing to do, such an *accessible* thing to do -- to vote -- the ruling class is in constant fear that, with one simple election, the general public may get wise and vote in great numbers AGAINST the status quo.
So how do they solve this problem? How do they keep the masses in line? ... The answer is found in the incredible apparatus, hidden and apparent, that one might call "The All-Powerful Propaganda Machine."
This propaganda machine exists not just in the media but also in terms of how children and adults are educated, how they are socialized on the job, how they are socialized in their places of worship. ... The goal is to make sure that the general public remains sheeplike. Specifically, that they don't take advantage of the simplest thing they can do to revolt, and that is not just to vote but TO VOTE DIFFERENTLY, to vote outside the confines of what the status quo dicates.
And so, witness how the Democratic Party went after Ralph Nader, especailly in 2004. They attacked Nader with far more passion and fervor than George Bush. Why? Because a third party movement is a much greaater threat to them than are the Republicans.
The Democratic-Republican duopoly doesn't care who gets into office, just so long as it's either a Democrat or a Republican. Were an "outsider" to become an electoral threat, THAT'S their greatest fear.
Just so long as the political consensus stays where it is -- and *BETTER YET* just so long as the political consensus keeps moving to the right, as it has over the past 40 years -- then it matters not if a Democrat of a Republican wins -- the point is that the *duopoly* wins. And that's all that matters.
So if you want more of the same, vote for McCain or Obama. If not, do what those who have made the world into what it is today -- and who have put you in the situation you're in -- do what they DON'T want you to do.
Makes sense?
They've got that covered now. They control the voting machines. Voting is even more than ever a meaningless ritual, like throwing salt over your shoulder, or knocking on wood. At one time, these things meant something, but no more.
wagelaborer,
Referring to your post, the one just before this one ...
I strongly, STRONGLY disagree with the cynicism -- and, holy crap, the *despair*! --inherent in your comment.
People in other countries have achieved broad-based, progressive victories with absolutely NO democratic mechanisms in place. Whereas, we in the United States have a great many democratic tools at our disposal -- but, for the most part, we don't use them.
That a democratic tool such as voting has become corrupted by the political establishment is no reason to give up that democratic tool -- to assume that voting is now and always will be corrupt and therefore useless to the general public.
People have fought and died for the right to vote. And I don't mean soldiers on the battlefield, who only fought and died for the selfish wants of the economic elite. No, I'm talking about all those who fought non-violently, and with great courage, for the right to vote.
Lech Walesa and his comrades created a revolution in Poland -- peacefully, and with absolutely no democratic tools at their disposal. None. No free elections, no open courts, no access to media, no Bill of Rights, no history of free speech and freedom of assembly. Yet they brought the Soviet Union to its knees.
History is filled with similar examples. What democratic tools did Gandhi have at his disposal? India was a colony. What democratic mechanisms could he and his supporters utilize? Yet, they were victorious. ... Why? ... Because the people who were with him were cynical and pessimistic? Because they said: "Hey, we suffered a setback, so now let's all go back home and give up." Of course not.
Yes, the voting process is the United States has been corrupted. So what should we do, allow that to continue? Is that a done-deal, as far as your concerned?
I'm afraid your post gives a great deal of comfort and satisfaction to the oligarchic-few. Your pessimism and negativity are exactly what they hope for. THE PESSIMISM AND THE CYNICISM OF THE GENERAL POPULATION ARE THEIR LIFEBLOOD. They can't survive without it.
As Ralph Nader put it: "Pessimism is a function of inactivity." And inactive, pessimistic, cynical ... sheep ... are precisely what those in power want the general population to be.
'm afraid their response to your post would be: "Mission Accomplished!"
Quoting from an article by Donna Volatile:
"If you want to help put a stop to the rigged election game, if you really want to make a difference and you want your voice of disapproval to be heard, then do VOTE! Vote for ANYBODY but the two buffoons, who have been pre-selected for you by the global elitist machine. Send a message, loud and clear: We refuse your choices.
"Vote Nader, vote McKinney, vote Ron Paul, vote Bob Barr, write in a vote, do whatever but don't support the corrupt system. Commit to a protest vote. Vote your conscience, do not vote under the “lesser of two-evils” threat because then YOU are part of the problem, not part of the possible solution. (We've been on this trip too many times before. ... From “hope and help is on the way” Kerry to Obama's constant harping on “Change We Can Believe In”, you have been sold a bill of goods from first to last. For all of Obama's talk of change, his words and actions show quite clearly, he means more of the same. ...)
"For those die hard Obama supporters who refuse to see the hand writing on the wall... YOU are the problem. ... For those die-hard Hillary Clinton supporters, promising to vote for McCain because your war-monger wasn't the chosen one, seek psychiatric help immediately.
"And one more thing. ... Evil is evil, bad is bad, wrong is wrong regardless of sex, race, creed or color.
"And another thing. ... If you vote for Obama, you are neither liberal nor are you progressive, so let's get that straight. If you vote for Obama, you are a neoliberal, so get use to it.
"Stop making excuses, there are none and time is running out as an even larger war may be in the making.
"Get those blinders off!
This is your wake up call!"
Click here for the entire article -- http://www.counterpunch.org/volatile08282008.html
In short: if you are negative, pessimistic and cynical, I guarantee you, you're going to be passive, inactive and easily manipulated. In which case, YOU are part of the problem.
Excellent!
Today's people power victory in Thailand is another example of this.
But what will it take for the USAn population to rise up? And if they do, there is more reason to believe it will take the form of fundamentalist-chtisto-fascism rather than social democracy.
And the easiest, most convenient, most accessible way to "rise up" is to vote for a progressive third party candidate.
Let's say the Election in November is, again, rigged (and keep in mind that elections in the US have been rigged going back many, many years) -- let's say the Election in November is again rigged; that still doesn't take away the dramatic effect a strong showing by a third party candidate would have on the political status quo.
What if before the Election, Nader and McKinney are, together, polling, say, 8-10%. If the polls indicate that they're at that level, then it would be hard to "fix" their vote-total at anything signifigantly less than 8-10%. And 8-10% of the electorate represents a vote-total that neither the political establishment nor their Sicilian messenger boys, the mainstream media, can ignore.
So the short-term goal is not to win -- at least not for now -- but, rather, to increase Ralph Nader's 2000 vote total of 2.7% to, say, 5% or 6% -- or, along with Cynthia McKinney, to get the combined progressive vote to, say, 8-10% of the electorate.
And that's a realistic, do-able short-term goal.
AMEN......and well said!
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin