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TechnoratiTyranny on Display at the Republican Convention
St. Paul is a window into our future. It is a future where, as one protester told me by phone, "people have been pepper-gassed, thrown on the ground by police who had drawn their weapons, had their documents seized and their tattoos photographed before being taken away to jail." It is a future where illegal house raids are carried out. It is a future where vans containing heavily armed paramilitary units circle and film protesters. It is a future where, as the protester said, "people have been pulled from cars because their license plates were on a database and handcuffed, thrown in the back of a squad car and then watched as their vehicles were ransacked and their personal possessions from computers to literature seized." It is a future where constitutional rights mean nothing and where lawful dissent is branded a form of terrorism.
The rise of the corporate state means the rise of the surveillance state. The Janus-like face of America swings from packaged and canned spectacles, from nationalist slogans, from seas of flags and Christian crosses, from professions of faith and patriotism, to widespread surveillance, illegal mass detentions, informants, provocateurs and crude acts of repression and violence. We barrel toward a world filled with stupendous lies and blood.
What difference is there between the crowds of flag-waving Republicans and the apparatchiks I covered as a reporter in the old East German Communist Party? These Republican delegates, like the fat and compromised party functionaries in East Berlin, all fawned on cue over an inept and corrupt party hierarchy. They all purported to champion workers' rights and freedom while they systematically fleeced, disempowered and impoverished the workers they lauded. They all celebrated the virtue of a state that was morally bankrupt. And while they played this con game, one that gave them special privileges, power and wealth, they unleashed their goons and thugs on all who dared to challenge them. We are not East Germany, but we are well on our way. An economic meltdown, another catastrophic terrorist attack on American soil, a war with Iran, and we could easily swing into an authoritarian model that would look very familiar to anyone who lived in the former communist East bloc.
A few of those arrested in St. Paul, including eight leaders of the RNC Welcoming Committee -- one of the groups organizing protests at the GOP convention in St. Paul -- now face terrorism-related charges. Monica Bicking, Eryn Trimmer, Luce Guillen Givins, Erik Oseland, Nathanael Secor, Robert Czernik, Garrett Fitzgerald and Max Spector could get up to seven and a half years in prison under the terrorism enhancement charge, which allows for a 50 percent increase in the maximum penalty. This is the first time criminal charges have been filed under the 2002 Minnesota version of the federal Patriot Act.
The Patriot Act, which was put in place as much to silence domestic opposition as to ferret out real terrorists, has largely lain dormant. It has authorized the government to monitor our phone conversations, e-mails, meetings and political opinions. It has authorized the government to shut down anti-war groups and lock up innocents as terrorists. It has abolished habeas corpus. But until now we have not grasped its full implications for our open society. We catch glimpses, as in St. Paul or in our offshore penal colonies where we torture detainees, of its awful destructive power.
The commercial media told us that what was important in St. Paul was happening inside the convention hall. The vapid interviews, the ridiculous soap opera sagas about Sarah Palin's daughter and the debate about whether John McCain or Barack Obama has proprietary rights to "Change" divert us from the truth of who we have become. You had to search out "Democracy Now!," TheUptake.org, Twin Cities Indymedia, I-Witness, along with a few other independent outlets, to see, hear or read real journalism from St. Paul.
It does not matter that the RNC Welcoming Committee describes itself as an "anarchist/anti-authoritarian" organization. We don't have to embrace a political agenda to protect the right to be heard. Shut down free speech and radicals only burrow deeper underground, splitting ossified political systems into fractured extremes. We may well end up with the Christian right on one side, with politicians like Sarah Palin providing an ideological veneer to a Christian fascism, and embittered leftist radicals who turn to violence on the other.
St. Paul was not ultimately about selecting a presidential candidate. It was about the power of the corporate state to carry out pre-emptive searches, seizures and arrests. It was about squads of police in high-tech riot gear, many with drawn semiautomatic weapons, bursting into houses. It was about seized computers, journals and political literature. It was about shutting down independent journalism, even at gunpoint. It was about charging protesters with "conspiracy to commit riot," a rarely used statute that criminalizes legal dissent. It was about 500 people held in open-air detention centers. It was about the rising Orwellian state that has hollowed out the insides of America, cast away all that was good and vital, and donned its skin to shackle us all.
189 Comments so far
Show AllHaving grown up in Eastern Europe and seen the effects of a powerful and borderline fascist state on the general populous, I am quite frightened by the direction America is taking. My parents fled to America to avoid food lines, mandatory military service, constant govt surveillance, no social services or help for citizens or poor, constant fear of the state and imprisonment. So 20 years on from that day, it saddens me to see the signs of the same issues here will affect me probably in my lifetime. What saddens me more is what Chris H. says, and I agree with. The marginalization of any sort of movement to give voice to the oppressed by the state. Its to be expected though, all govts. gravitate towards the fascist on a long enough timeline. Its human nature. What boggles my mind is that this has been happening for thousands of years. From the Romans, to Austrian Empire, to British, now here. And the only way this can happen is by a uninvolved public/people. At some point in the process if the people get incited enough, and act together to peaceably protest every day, for as long as it takes. The cracks will show, and the path can be broken. But at some point it becomes too late, as we saw in MN we might be at that point where the state is too organized. So again, it really boggles my mind what is wrong with human nature and the human spirit to constantly over and over fall under this trap of strong (but fascist) leaders/men, or for that matter systems that those men represent (fascism, communism, ultra-nationalism, and in our case corporatism, etc). I will be wondering this for the rest of my life. How do nations' populations who have the privilege of history to refer to allow this to happen over and over (Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Franco's Spain, Thatcher's England, etc.) I just don't get it. Maybe someone smarted than me can tell me.... Cause to me that's the secret. How do you stop people from falling into the same trap over and over. The facts are on the side of the people, but the state has that special way of hiding them or overwhelming them with propaganda. And the people keep on buying it. I just don't get it.
William John Cox
For interest on the subject, please see: ROBOCOPS: PROFESSIONAL POLICING OF POLITICAL PROTEST, http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10128
here's a great article from thepeoplesvoice.org
couldn't have said it better myself. democracy for dummies...
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2008/09/10/p28511#more28511
"...our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor."
Reality suggests that the American People are Fascists. If you wish for a revolution it will be the Fascists who rise up, not exactly what you had in mind.
Under Bush, Fascism walks in America in the daylight, yet nothing is done. The abuses and disrespect for the American People will expand until a full blown totalitarian state exists here, we are close now. The American Congress appeals to Fascists for financial support. The Police and military are naturally inclined to support Fascism. Now the Military can operate within our borders and private corporate armies are large and growing. Prison camps are being erected and the Constitution is violated without consequence. Protesters are being jailed as terrorists, and Christians cheer. All of your emails and phone conversations are being recorded so that if necessary a case for terrorism can be fabricated against you. Dissent is terrorism now. We are witnessing the death of freedom in America. The American death culture has succeeded.
Prescott Sheldon Bush helped Hitler to power and organized an army with the intent of taking over the government from President Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
George Herbert Walker Bush was entrenched in CIA when President John Fitzgerald Kennedy was murdered, but couldn't remember where he was on Friday, November 22, 1963. Later, when he was vice president, the son of a family friend attempted to kill President Ronald Reagan.
President? George Walker Bush has almost realized his grandpappy's dream.
Sorry but it isn't that easy. Prescott Bush was doing what GM, Ford, Chrysler, AT&T, Standard Oil and a whole lot of other corporations were doing in the 1930's to appease Hitler. Even the great reformer FDR in 1938 called Mussolini, "...that splendid Italian gentleman."
Yes what Prescott Bush did was collaboration with Nazism but consider that GM's representative James D Mooney practiced his "Hitler Salute" in a Berlin hotel suite mirror on May 1, 1993. He was to attend an extravaganza put on by Hitler. The next day on May the 2nd he got to put into practice that arm pump salute in the process of negotiating a contract between GM's German Opel division and Hitler as part of the Nazi's plan to rearm Germany. GM's Opel division built the Blitz truck that supplied about 50% of the troop transport trucks in the German Whermacht.
Then there was Standard Oil's duplicity with German chemical manufacturer I. G. Farben who was supplying the Germans with the know-how and capability for producing Tetra-ethyl lead, an octane booster in auto and aviation fuel that prevents pre-ignition or "engine knock", that allowed Germany's Luftwaffe to fly unfettered and provided a significant tactical advantage.
AT&T helped build Hitler's smart bombs and built its communications networks.
The list goes on and on but the real story is not just Prescott Bush, though he should take his share of the blame, but the vast amount of assistance provided by US corporations to rearming Germany.
Bring America Back !!!! yes Parallax==can you point to a link or source where GHWB is saying he cant remember his whereabouts??
***So tragedy does seem to surround the Bush Brand,, Of course there's the
other brother who had the security contracts at both World Trade Center and Dulles International Airport.
***Lil Bro Jebby is just waiting in the wings. If McCain gets in watch Jebby get appointed to a nice position, to keep him in line to continue the Dynasty.
**There's got to be a few loose screws with anybody who jumps out of
a perfectly good aircraft.
They claim that 9/11 was Bin Laden’s job. If true, he sure has been successful in changing America.
Do you know why Republicans picked the moose-eating Palin who’s got a long roster of liabilities?
Because they wanted the opposition (if we can call it that) to empty their holsters. And then just a couple of days before Election Day the Republicans would drop her and pick a worse character. By then, there would hardly be any time left for anybody to expose the new whacko. That is Karl Rove’s October surprise. I wonder why nobody ever thought about this. Why else would Republicans choose a moose eater to be a heartbeat away from presidency?
If plural of goose, geese, then moose, meese?
There are many comments here and I don't have time to read all of them, so I don't know if I am repeating any other remarks already made.
I was appalled at the utter disregard for freedom of expression at the RNC. Even more appalling were the "preemptive arrests." It is not too far a stretch to see that we are becoming a fascist police state ala twenty-first century USA. Police breaking into people's homes with semi-automatic weapons drawn, ransacking and taking their property, arresting and charging them for felonious acts which amounted to little more than potentially causing a ruckus at the RNC, special targetting of journalists who would act as witnesses of police behavior and who would give voice to protesters and dissenters, etc. constitute shocking violations of First and Fourth amendment protections. Of course the authorities labelled these groups "anarchist and anti-authoritarian." These are meaningless labels, but the fact that the authorities believe that they can be used to justify the treatment of these people shows the extent to which American society has degraded with respect to the Constitution.
I havent read ALL of teh posts, either. But yours is excellent and gets a thumbs up from me. Have they called th4em "enemy combatants" yet?
Voting for the lesser of two evils, is still voting for evil.
"They allow you" to peacefully protest knowing that it will not bring about any real change.You passively go along with idea and they the monied for all intense proposes ignore you.
They have beaten before you even start and they know it..
They control the police,they control the media and they control you!
Revolutions are bloody and their yet may be much blood spilled in the streets of America..
But, for the time being, they have you pretty much where they want you.
Marginalize.
There is already blood in the streets--and homeless vets sleeping in ditches. HOmeless elderly still living in tents under bridges in New Orleans. There is already blood in the streets. But, most of it, so far, is "ours". Revolutions dont HAVE to be bloody. Especially if you have the military on your side. There are too many people with nothign left to lose. They just dont see that voting the duopoly is goin g to change that.
You are not troubled by the strident gains of the Right--especially after what we have endured?
The endless ineptitude of the Democrats pisses me off--my perspective is the dismal congressional ratings are due to their inability to hold the criminal Right accountable. I watched Obama last night on KO (KO was actually more direct in incisive)and it annoyed me that he stutters and stumbles and appears as a weak bumbling idiot. Jesus man, stand your ground and speak directly and with assurance. I am sorry to say that Palin can deliver a lie more effectively than Obama can stand up for the truth. Even Biden is more fluid and direct. Granted, Clinton ran an effective Republican campaign within the Democratic primaries--so Obama should have a callused approach. Truth be told, he barely squeezed in and was losing to Clinton's foul tactics. You would think he would harden up--but he keeps with this lets all be nice act. You can't be nice with these people--they will run right over you with great satisfaction. I am disgusted with the weak and stuttering Obama. Just one time he uttered a full-throated, "enough" and it just ain't enough. He needs to kick ass in a direct and firm manner because it is all these bullies understand.
Still, there is way too much at stake for me to throw my vote away in a 2 way contest. I just don't have that luxury to dream of the perfect while we tumble into a dark age. Do you?
Sometimes you have to accept what is as good as it gets in context of the times.
So what you are saying Vern is that since the Republicans are 95% corrupt and the Democrats are only 75% corrupt; if you vote for the dems your vote is only 75% corrupt! I prefer to vote 3rd party and vote my conscience.
Bring America Back !!!! Although Chris Hedges attributes most of the
Gestapo tactics to St Paul, there was quite a bit of it at the Denver Rock Concert as well. So we really can't isolate Repubbys for bringing the Police State to us . One Denver Jackboot clubbed a Codepink lady to the street !
****The article is a Rant, but I hate to see such well done anti-Fascist pieces done without attribution to the Mother Cause. It was 9/11, Progs, the Great
Turnpoint in modern history !! When the Neocon Repubbys refer to it, they mean that Boogieman bin Laden and his merry band of 19 cave dwellers. When we Progs refer to it, we mean the 9/11 that is yet Covered Up by mainstream media, and that was very much an 'Inside Job' by parties we know but as yet cannot pin to the ashes with defined evidence and proof !! Some day we will, but two days from now is a good, if not somber, time to contemplate it again ! 8 Years Later
****The ensuing frantic and irrational nationalism which gave us 2 Patriot Acts, the Military Commissions torture laws, FISA violations are the sparks being used by Jackboot local police forces becoming the Stormtroopers we now know !
It was indeed, our second Pearl Harbor== and that we can pin on the
Neocon Repubbys, as evidenced in their signed and sealed PNAC declaration .
**King George and Prince Cheney are doing their best to cover their criminal tracks, before they lose grip on the power and powers that be. !! But things are starting to loosen, slowly, painstakingly, but I for one just know that we are going to find our DEEP THROAT of 9/11.
Bring America Back !!!! Although Chris Hedges attributes most of the
Gestapo tactics to St Paul, there was quite a bit of it at the Denver Rock Concert as well. So we really can't isolate Repubbys for bringing the Police State to us . One Denver Jackboot clubbed a Codepink lady to the street !
****The article is a Rant, but I hate to see such well done anti-Fascist pieces done without attribution to the Mother Cause. It was 9/11, Progs, the Great
Turnpoint in modern history !! When the Neocon Repubbys refer to it, they mean that Boogieman bin Laden and his merry band of 19 cave dwellers. When we Progs refer to it, we mean the 9/11 that is yet Covered Up by mainstream media, and that was very much an 'Inside Job' by parties we know but as yet cannot pin to the ashes with defined evidence and proof !! Some day we will, but two days from now is a good, if not somber, time to contemplate it again ! 8 Years Later
****The ensuing frantic and irrational nationalism which gave us 2 Patriot Acts, the Military Commissions torture laws, FISA violations are the sparks being used by Jackboot local police forces becoming the Stormtroopers we now know !
It was indeed, our second Pearl Harbor== and that we can pin on the
Neocon Repubbys, as evidenced in their signed and sealed PNAC declaration .
**King George and Prince Cheney are doing their best to cover their criminal tracks, before they lose grip on the power and powers that be. !! But things are starting to loosen, slowly, painstakingly, but I for one just know that we are going to find our DEEP THROAT of 9/11.
Generally I have to agree with the majority of the comments on CD. It's pretty obvious to the majority of commenters that they are aware of the fact that A) we have a sophisticated form of misinformation and propaganda delivered to us by the corporate media and that B) both parties require 'corporate approval' to field a presidential candidate and C) the corporate agenda has trumped the public agenda for decades now.
Yet I find solace that not all Americans have been sucked into this black hole of media manipulated politics and that at least the internet still provides a forum for real progressives.
My question is..."does anyone know how many peole read CD everyday?"
If the readership is large enough here, then perhaps we can reach out to our fellow Americans and enlighten them to the fact that the government has been highjacked by a corporate agenda. We still have the vote and despite rigged voting machines & the manufacturing of consent, the chance to vote in someone like Ralph Nader is still a possibility if enough people out there can enlighten the people around them.
I think that the sad truth is that many of the Common Dreams audience, which should be the most receptive to the idea that the system is broken, and that we cannot support either of the corporate candidates if we truly support peace and justice, will not move out of their comfort zone and vote outside of the democratic party.
Why haven't Common Dream, the Nation, or Mr. Hitchens actively supported third party candidates like Nader or McKinney (or Kucinich or Mike Gravel)? That is a mystery to me.
I can't absolutely say that voting third party will resolve anything, but I also know that 'progressives' voting for the lesser of two evils the past two elections hasn't changed the democratic party leadership to adopt any progressive policies.
I think that I, and the rest of the world, would be happy if Nader made a strong showing, which would indicate that there at least some in the US who haven't traded in their brains for the koolaid that is being sold by the mainstream candidates. Some will get upset that I am making disparaging remarks about their candidate, but to me voting third party is the only approach that can get us off the militaristic, corporate driven, totalitarian path that we are headed towards.
"Be careful of what you wish for, you may get it." Kurt Vonnegut
Simply put: In order for the multi-party system to work we have to revamp the election system itself. It has been mathematically proven that it is impossible to have a fair election in our system with more than two candidates. (If you're interested, I'll dig for the article about this - it may take a while though). So in essence if you vote for a third party you are wasting your vote in the system we have. In fact, you may actually be giving your vote, via its absence, to the candidate of the two major parties you disapprove of the most.
So, don't vote for a third party, but instead push for voting system reform by voting for the one of the two candidates you think would be more open to voting reform then see how far it can be taken.
My six drachmas,
Rose
Has CD endorsed anyone? I mean, I know that they are "Left"--but they have articles critical of "both" sides (if you can, indeed , call it that) Anyway, if I had my choice--I would vote Kucincih/Nader. Can you write in in your state? In the past, you couldnt in Ohio.I hear conflicting reports about Nader being on the ballot in Ohio--even at teh website. Do you know if he is?
Kilgore Trout
NotOneMore,
Your plaintive cry in the dark has driven me to reveal my pending vote, for what it is worth:
I will write in Dennis Kucinich for President,
Ralph Nader for V.P.
This has been my position since '04. In '04 it was Nader for Pres. as was '00.
As in the case of O.J Simpson, where a CIVIL suit went some small way in adressing a serious situation the Criminal system could not effectively deal with....why not SUE every bugger with a gun and body armour that used violence...
maybe this kind of "Capitalist and All-American" appeal to the Courts to use MONEY as a big-stick in TRYING to maintain a civil society...(since what else might work...reading the Facts of the matter???)...might provide some meaningful fodder for the MOB that supported all this...sue them whenever, however...keep on suing...money talks if decency does not!
Wow, frightening indeed. Who could have anticipated that the 21st century would be such a huge step backward for the United States of America. Abuse of power and censorship are some of Sarah Palin's strong suits. WAKE UP PEOPLE, this is our country (I think). I would love to see exactly how 'law enforcement' knew the who's, how's, where's, and when's. These people are AMERICANS. This type of stuff is unpatriotic and anti-american (It is much worst and disturbing than that).
I take it you have not heard of the 'Patriot Act?' The massive documentation here and in some newspapers, regarding the 'improvements,' extensions, Supreme Court rulings on ACLU suits, Congressional hearings, enhanced surveillance laws that are extended by Congressional vote, immunity for phone companies, immunity for the POTUS (Constitution does not allow 'ex parte' laws for any situation or person).
In other words, they simply used software to isolate calls from known numbers, or calls to those numbers, and recorded conversations. Any cell phone, or change to an account, will ultimately reveal your identity, as will a credit card, driver's license, mortgage, electric bill, etc. If that is 'non-productive,' long range listening devices, etc. will be used after someone in the neighborhood fingers the residence. This could be the guy who reads the electric meter, the mailman who notices an increase in personal mail, the watermeter man who notices a substantial increase in usage, the nosey woman or man who lives in visual contact notices more people going in and out, etc.
This has become SOP.
Word to the wise...
I've lived my whole life in St. Paul, and I find this article atrocious. In it I see hyperbole, a "crisis cult" meme, a martyr complex, and a drawing of the line in the sand inside our own skirmish line.
By this last point I mean that the local cops have no relevance to the D.C. establishment, the war in Iraq, the big issues of the day like bailouts to banks and crooks, a mafioso-approach to the Executive Branch and a complicit/enabling Congress. It's a goddamned waste of time to take your frustrations to the cops, to engage in local law enforcement, to draw them out, to bait them. If the great class war comes, I expect cops, lower-ranking military, and progressives -- whether they want them or not -- to be on the SAME SIDE. Let's draw the line in the sand at about the 90% percentile of income for your region. If you make below that figure, you're probably on the side of ordinary people -- WHETHER OR NOT you actually identify that way. If your family wealth, investments, salary, etc. is well-above that figure, you're part of Bush's "base". If you don't want to be there, then donate it to a good cause and join the rest of us.
Furthermore, there were some people in the RNC who genuinely DID have bad intentions, did not honor the Freedom of Assembly for the Rethugs (personally I think the Republicans should largely be jailed, but until progressives can control the courts, trying to shut down some other political convention is actually a trespass against the Rethugs' own freedom of assembly. And what could possibly be achieved? Would McCain suddenly change his entire Weltanschauung? If only we had the right sign or the right chant? Come on people, we should be engaging our NEIGHBOR. Someone who MIGHT CHANGE HIS MIND or get ACTIVE. There is no dialog possible with the Rethugs, and probably none with the corporate Dems either. At this point we probably shouldn't even bother taking a message to them. We should be engaging our neighbors, communities, building movements of people who are open to change.
There was a small number of out-of-state protesters/provocateurs (their arrest records are available online) who smashed windows of local businesses, and just happened to be there for the local media to capture in broad daylight.
Having been a reader of Common Dreams for a few years now, I must say that my opinion of this site has gone downhill reading the inflammatory messages here on this topic. The police may have gotten out of hand at various points, and so did a small minority of the protesters/provocateurs. It's actually a good thing the cops busted the worst of them BEFORE the protest. Can you imagine the media distraction if someone cut power to the building, popped hundreds of tires, or otherwise did much more severe property damage to local businesses? The whole point of the protest, anti-war messages, etc. would be lost -- far worse than it already was -- and the right-wing jerk-offs would be calling them terrorists instead of "merely" anarchists.
So I say shame on the head-banging "left" here. Hyperbole, "crisis cult", martyr complex. If progressive populists and others had instead organized a pro-peace summit on a different week, brought in music, food, various groups (labor, American Indian, Green, educators, ecumenical clergy, etc.) had the proper permits, and were peaceable -- not obstructing traffic, breaking windows, etc. and the police still came rushing in with stun grenades, infiltrators, etc. then we'd have something to worry about. But this ain't it. This is crying wolf, so far as I'm concerned -- and I wonder how many other of the stories here on CD are in the same vein. There may be a kernel of truth to some, others may be largely true, but this one is histrionic.
I should say that we USED to have such events here in the Twin Cities, in the Wellstone days and earlier. I worry that "the left" has been high-jacked by people who are directing it to bang their heads against the wall, and little else. Instead of crying about the protest, why aren't its "leaders" organizing a big pro-peace rally, Chautauqua style, with food, music, family-friendly, etc. Reaching out to different communities, building respect, a good reputation, growing the size of the movement, the cultural values, human dignity, etc. Why not? Probably because such leaders do not exist any more?
"why aren't its "leaders" organizing a big pro-peace rally, Chautauqua style, with food, music, family-friendly, etc. Reaching out to different communities, building respect, a good reputation, growing the size of the movement, the cultural values, human dignity, etc."
We had plenty of those, in DC and in my home town. Hundreds of thousand turned out -A good time was had by all, and then everyone went home. Little or no mention in the Washington Post. Nothing came of them.
So, telvepax, you think blocking streets and other forms of nonviolence are inappropriate because the right ridicules them? So, I assume you would consider Gandhi and King just troublemakers too, right?
The incident with stun grenades - the poor poeples campaign march - WAS a peaceful march. Remember?
And I'm not sure why you stick up for your local cops, the ones in my home town are racist, fascist thugs. In fact, psychological tests indicate that exactly the same psychopathology that lead one to become a common street thug, lead others to become cops - the only difference being cops come from more privleged socio-economic backgrounds.
USAn September 9th, 2008 11:10 am,
thank you for your comments, isn't it peculiar that several on this site (typically academics or vested members in the 'peace' movement) like to flip this argument suggesting that activists plan violence ? instead of the more common occurrence of a mass of people rationally responding to the govt's repressive tactics (hence gas masks, bandanas, jail solidarity - duh.. a little organization)
i was present on the tuesday afternoon in seattle when the 'demo' went in a different direction. i was present as an independent 'observer'/sympathist against the WTO. i was a participant and on those streets i found my friends of years (farmers, labor organizers, peace-social justice activists) people i trust and love.
the day was amazing, paper mache turtles, speeches, puppets - civil disobedience - micheal moore walking the streets encouraging the activists locked arm in arm blocking streets- shutting down the WTO.
there were 'corporate' sites that were targeted by vanguard groups (black blocks from different cities). but it seemed under control - police presence but thousands of protesters. as i recall it didn't turn ugly until darkness descended (5ish). i remember a couple i first met in '91 at a peace vigil leaving w/ their kids. my friend said 'iowablackbird', we've got to go - i understand - good to see you, peace, so they pushed their children away in strollers. about this time i saw kids (17-20) pulling red children's wagons w/ buckets of cold water, rags, wrap bandages, med supplies - in very appropriate timing - anticipating the obvious (actually very helpful). i stood on a dumpster and watched the police provoke over 1000 people in a square. the police line moved like a jellyfish.
the problem, the demonstrators/protesters were serious - they weren't fucking leaving. they recognized the achievement they had made earlier in the day and they decided fuck it - we'll stay here a while longer (protected speech). the organizers stood in the square (courageously, yet w/ little control over the emotion) in the midst of the police and said sit down, remain non violent. the police lines (they were stormtroopers) broke.
police w/ batons and plastic shields demanding the people leave the square, broke the peace - not the protesters.
i was 40 yards away near the dumpster. as the police poured in from one intersection (as they did at multiple intersections simultaneously), firing rubber bullets, shooting canisters of teargas into crowds w/ both elderly and children - i watched those liberals (you know it's a peaceful world and all - but my espresso machine at home is waiting for me) cry, running from their local police.
beyond that it was surrealistic. international journalists photographing american demonstrators, picking up cans of teargas and hurling them back at the police. clowns on bicycles slowly cycling w/ boom boxes playing gil scott heron, bizarre unmarked white suv's w/ extended boom microphones - decked out w/ small satellite dishes driving 5 mph through the crowd, silhouetted by teargas and streetlamps. as the police moved step by step, plastic shield by plastic shield against the residents of their own community - the mob.
for the remaining 11 hours the police and protesters went block by block through the streets.
seattle. - the media convergence center birthing the US indy media movement (also targeted 9 years ago).
(remember the boston massacre occurred in 1770, these events take time to digest)
but i hear people suggest 'be weary of those who suggest violent tactics' agent provocateurs - govt agents (here in the us) are responsible for the mob's actions.
no, it's the police state and their violent tactics that provoke peaceful demonstrators to respond to authoritarian tactics (ala tienanmen square). to run and cry is counter intuitive. to rationalize the govt's response, or trivialize the crowds justified emotion is criminal.
stand up and resist, when the government brutally suppresses your right to assemble. engage in civil disobedience or remain subservient to your masters.
anarchists my ass.... it's your friendly government violating your unrestricted 1st amendment right to assemble and speak in public, wherever and whenever you can (w/out which all rights vanish)...
not to be overly narcissistic or sentimental, just sharing w/ you one day of my little existence...
again USAn, thank you for providing me w/ a little sanity yesterday.
...peace...
"you think blocking streets and other forms of nonviolence are inappropriate because the right ridicules them?"
Some people would think blocking the streets is inappropriate because it interferes with the rights of others and is illegal.
" Gandhi and King just troublemakers "
Whether through the tactics they used or the inherent justness of their cause or both, they were able to eventually garner political support.
twelvepax September 8th, 2008 10:13 pm,
a few comments....
a "crisis cult" meme, a martyr complex"
-- so in your estimation there isn't a crisis, (rights weren't violated) and you call people who exercise their right to assemble and speak, people experiencing a martyr complex. obviously you ignored the jefferson quote. it isn't a complex to demonstrate, it's your constitutional right (which you don't seem very concerned about in sunny st paul).
"local cops have no relevance to the D.C. establishment"
--actually all evidence points to the contrary, your city allowed the convention, your businesses profited from the convention participants and the demonstrators (even the rnc welcoming committee was paying someone rent). when your police worked w/ federal cops to infiltrate protesters your cops (dressed in imperial storm trooper garb) became very relevant to the dc establishment.
----------
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/8/headlines
GOP Bought Insurance for St. Paul to Cover Police Misconduct Lawsuits
The Associated Press reports taxpayers in St. Paul should be off the hook for any damages stemming from claims of police misconduct related to the Republican National Convention. As part of a deal with the city, the Republican Party’s host committee bought insurance covering up to $10 million in damages and unlimited legal costs for lawsuits against the police. In St. Paul, some critics say the agreement only encouraged police to use aggressive tactics knowing they won’t have to pay damages.
-----------
"It's a goddamned waste of time to take your frustrations to the cops, to engage in local law enforcement"
your opinion - no more or less. also cops beating up reporters deserves a few frustrating encounters w/ demonstrators. no?
"If you don't want to be there, then donate it to a good cause and join the rest of us."
-- you don't know what your talking about, many of the activists do donate money and more importantly their time to creating consciousness (for example jail solidarity, or raising awareness of inequities in wealth, or the gross violations of human rights occurring around the world in the name of terror). it's asinine and presumptuous to assume these people aren't active when their not demonstrating. they're not mutually exclusive.
"Furthermore, there were some people in the RNC who genuinely DID have bad intentions"
-- assertion - no evidence...
"until progressives can control the courts, trying to shut down some other political convention is actually a trespass against the Rethugs' own freedom of assembly. And what could possibly be achieved?"
-- not so clever analysis, everyone has 1st amendment rights. how they play out is a different story, let them assemble - but let them suffer the consequences derived from their policies. is it pretty. has it ever been pretty (refer to jefferson quote above).
"Would McCain suddenly change his entire Weltanschauung? If only we had the right sign or the right chant?"
--it's not about mccain/palin it's about the people becoming aware of how other people feel about bush and the repubs (the instigators of the fascist policies we encounter today, that you dismiss as exaggerations). it's about instilling courage in the others who are to fearful to look out their window and see what's happening.
"There was a small number of out-of-state protesters/provocateurs (their arrest records are available online) who smashed windows of local businesses"
-- no minnesotans, huh? i doubt that, again no sources.
"The police may have gotten out of hand at various points"
-- like beating up reporters, illegally tapping phones and raiding houses. why not be a little specific here ?...
"or otherwise did much more severe property damage to local businesses? The whole point of" the protest, anti-war messages, etc. would be lost -- far worse than it already was -- and the right-wing jerk-offs would be calling them terrorists instead of "merely" anarchists."
-- 2 important points. 1. you seem to be more concerned w/ commerce and property rights than the protection of constitutional rights and, 2. they already call activists - terrorists- so actually it wasn't better or worse than it already is. a police state.
as to the remainder of your post. obviously you've never spent time w/ these people (the anarchists/activists/rnc welcoming committee), they do organize and participate in raising consciousness against war outside of demonstrations. i imagine much more than you do. enjoy your latte....
...peace...
enjoy your latte....
Exactly. These "liberals" with their intolerance of diversity of tactics and viewpoints have destroyed the once very effective peace and justice center in my home town.
I'm afraid that the police, no matter how nice they may be personally, are institutionally at odds with the general public and working people. We may like the police but we know that they are not out to protect our civil rights, but rather property rights.
We can only ask that when civil rights are being violated that they become conscientious objectors by taking off their uniforms and joining their fellow citizens. Let right be done.
PS Blaming the left for wrongful police action is unbecoming.
I was a photographer covering the protests against the FTAA summit in Miami years ago. I saw peaceful demonstrators, not anarchists and vandals, violently attacked by police with no provocation. It was a police riot. The recent RNC thing is not an aberration, it's a pattern of abuse. And with all the anti-terror laws enacted in recent years it will only get worse.
Here's a brief account of the event written by Lee Sustar:
"Welcome to the police state of Miami." That's Florida AFL-CIO President Cynthia Hall's greeting to thousands of union members gathering in the city's Bayfront Park Amphitheater on November 20, as we prepare to march against the Free Trade Area of the Americas (FTAA) summit.
Lines of cops are aiming rifles loaded with plastic bullets at the heads of union members. They've roughed up and arrested several unionists already--including retirees--and they will prevent thousands from even entering the arena.
Along with the injuries come plenty of calculated insults--like the police helicopter buzzing the amphitheater as AFL-CIO President John Sweeney begins to speak. By the time the last protest is over, nearly 200 arrests will take place, with dozens of protesters injured, many seriously. And AFL-CIO leaders, protest organizers and civil liberties groups will join forces to denounce the authorities' countless violations of civil rights.
This highly militarized--and systematically brutal--show of force by 40 law enforcement agencies won't prevent the FTAA negotiations from unraveling behind the fortified fence that surrounds the meetings at the exclusive Inter-Continental Hotel, however. And despite police use of concussion grenades, rubber and plastic bullets, pepper spray balls, Taser stun-guns, tanks, helicopters and more, the global justice movement is reviving on the streets of Miami, with an estimated 25,000 prepared to protest.
Thanks for the good points.
Our neo-police state did not arise this year, nor even in the Bush years - it arose in it's current form in Seattle in 1999 - and was refined in Pliladelphia in 2000 and the Maimi FTAA in 2003.
The Police State is here now, and it's most recent appearance was in St. Paul. This guy says he's lived there all his life. It just goes to show, it can be happening in your own city and most people won't recognize it when it's happening. I live in San Diego and I saw it loud and clear just by watching Free Speech TV and reading articles on the Internet.
The War for Terror
The cuckoo’s that came home to nest
spreading fear in the land of the blest
so talking heads could tell us what to hate
and why we need a gulag state
We have steamed up fear and baited hate
and the Zion train is running late
Anyone pro fair trade labor or cooperate
may soon well have a Guatanamo date
Total awareness is a mighty big book
Nineteen eighty four was more than a look
Martial law is all it took
to get the puppeteers off the hook
We’ve got brown shirt and swartzwater thugs
loose in the fertile valley with their blitzkrieg slugs
We’ve got no oil; say nada; for all that blood
the third world war will be another dud
strife flood and fire are the coupons
for the Mc mansions gated who of who’s
that are trading greenbacks for the trump
while the eagle empire becomes a dump
so get out the two flavored one non-entity vote
for the changing of the puppets is at hand
in the land of the free and the brave
where dissent called treason is the knave
the war on terror is what it's not
a war for terror is what we got
better get out in the streets folks! just say no to rising fascism before its too late. the next roundup could include your family...
Perhaps this is the real reason?
“Liberal commentators have been quick to condemn McCain's pick as a cynical ploy to draw disaffected Clinton supporters to the Republican camp. Such criticism naively misunderstands the new racial code of this election. McCain is not assuming, in devious Rovian fashion, that he can trick unthinking voters into voting for a woman. Rather, he is offering an escape for cynical non-blacks resentful of their historical situation. They were about to face an election in which they had to finally admit they would not vote for a black man. But now McCain has offered them a palatable way out: now voters do not have to say they prefer McCain to Obama, they can say that they are actively supporting a woman.” - Malini Johar Schueller and Ed White September 8, 2008
To attempt a split, as Remy writes, of voters who may or may not vote for a woman being a motivator to vote against the numbers that would never, or just couldn't vote for a person of color, therefore his laughable thesis "...of the new racial code of this election." Indeed, Remy's audacity denies the inherent implausibility of his thesis: "...he (McCain) is offering an escape for cynical non-blacks resentful of their historical situation. They were about to face an election...admit they would not vote for a black man."
There are numerous references, statistics, studies that have invalidated this lack of awareness. I am too old, too educated to re-establish my sources. CD itself has articles providing current studies that are no more than 3-4 days old. By the written word I realize most who post tripe like this are young, acting on Pavlovian behavioral patterns. I mean no offense other than 'lack of awareness.'
When the vitriolic assaults define logic, context reminds thinking to defuse aggression.
Remy Germain September 8th, 2008 8:03 pm
Palin was picked to appeal to the Republican base. A pick that has been succesful I might add, the evangelicals who were sceptical of McCain are ecstatic.
Lobo Gris
This is a marginal call, Lobo. The current 'hedge fund' failure, financial 'pea under which shell' shenanigans in the mortgage 'industry' is comparative.
Numerically, intuitively, on November 5, 2008, the Republican party's attempts to use all known illegal, but without immediate court restraining, methods of intimidation of voters, voting machine manipulations, disqualifying (falsely) voters, etc. will be incapable of preventing the complete repudiation of the Republican party. Besides the Presidency, there won't be enough Republicans in either the Senate or Congress to gather a forum, let alone prevent the Bush legacy to be completely stricken from history.
If these lames can agree...:)
I hope you're right but right now McCain/Palin are polling even in some polls and ahead in others of Obama/Biden. In what should be a landslide for the Democrats it appears that once again they are snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Lobo Gris
miniwood
What rubbish
You have proven the point haven't you?
I'm posting this in response to questions about police infiltration of groups... what they admit may be the tip of the iceberg???
Ramsey County Sheriff Admits Local Police Used Paid Infiltrators and Spied on Activists Including RNC Welcoming Committee
In an interview on Democracy Now!, Ramsey County Sheriff Bob Fletcher blamed a group of 400 to 500 alleged anarchists for creating unrest in St. Paul over the past week. Fletcher also admitted local police authorities had infiltrated and spied on local activists, including members of the RNC Welcoming Committee, for over a year. We play his remarks and an excerpt of a press conference, where members of the RNC Welcoming Committee spoke to the media for the first time. [includes rush transcript]
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/5/ramsey_county_sheriff_admits_local_police
Police informers and infiltrators are the ones in your group that always want to do violence and cause damage. When someone speaks to these actions, get their name and have your lawyers immediately find out who they are. There are usually several people assigned to peace groups and don't be surprise if the leaders are themselves informers and police agents. Remember the police have unlimited budgets for this work.
Also why is it that "anarchists" are to blame as anarchists are as peaceful as any other citizens? The anarchists being blamed is like the red baiting of the fifties; silly, untrue and very dangerous.
Are we going to have the Palmer raids again?
Even in Australia we saw the stormtroopers in action. We scratched our heads and wondered whether this was really America or some third-world fascist state.
The American Dream has turned into a nightmare for Americans AND for the rest of the world.
America urgently needs a French-style Revolution. Surely among 300 million people there are some leaders, some activists, some revolutionaries.
Where are they?
www.dangerouscreation.com
I AM HERE! Another election (Tweedledumb and Tweedledumbass) will accomplish slim to nothing. Most true progresives are thinking Obama now, just to avoid McCain/Palin. After 8 yrs of W--we can do better, folks. Obama couldve done better. (MCCAIN USED TO BE BETTER!! Dont say its not true! He got sucked into RNC) Obama got swallowed whole by DNC. Most peopel that run for the Imperial Presidency of the uS, have to be egoists, anyway. The Am,. people put way to much power into the Presidency. By the time someone gets into office, people expect too much.We are in desparate need of a complete overhaul, folks. If not a coup--at, the least, a constitutional convention. Everyone touts the constitution--but presidents rarely follow it.Its become a constitutin of convenience, and is vastly outdated. That what I think, anyway. Call me treasonous--and let W eta l off the hook.
DavidG. September 8th, 2008 7:46 pm,
i concur, cowards who question others tactics (yet who cringe when some refuse to follow their own tactics - supporting 3rd party candidates that can't win b/c the system is rigged against them)
what's the hang up w/ broken glass and property? did the police respect the property of the organizers that was confiscated before the demonstrations ? have the police ever respected the rights of the homeless? how about the rights of the migrant workers in iowa and in mississippi, or the iraqis who were tortured in iraq? or the privacy rights of people who have had their homes searched while they were at work? (unbeknown to them) and on and on.
the government protects the property of the wealthy and the rich, period. they could care less about other people's property and rights (check in w/ the folks down in louisiana). yeah they will crack down (the thugs) if not today then tomorrow, better sooner then later unless you have some gold you're hiding that you don't want to share w/ your starving neighbors.
whose windows were broken (strabucks, macy's mcdonalds)? great institutions that have the resources to replace their storefront windows. the government spends 50 million dollars to data mine, infiltrate organizers, abridge peoples rights and people at this site are offended by property damage?
completely links up w/ the comments earlier on this thread alluding to censurship (oh my god so and so was rather upset w/ my thought and said 'fuck', how unsettling).
so as real revolutionary times descend upon us some of us already know that many who proclaim to be 'progressive' patriots will become collaborators.
'yes sir' mr anarchist broke that window, here's his address - i mean i live here, see my neat yard and my picket fence, it's mine, my property. i worked hard for it, (same argumnets that companies use to exploit workers / it's mine i earned it- bogus).
it's time to get over the me/mine bullshit and come to the reality that millions of americans don't have the luxury of mine anymore.
also, to call these people childish reeks of elitism. go to their websites (shouldn't be to hard try google) http://www.nornc.org/ and you'll see these folks are not naive and juvenal, in fact they understand that revolution is an ongoing process (follow the links).
unbelieveable, people telling me to think outside of the box and support nader while living in boxes. funny....
remember the boston massacre...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Massacre
"The Boston Massacre refers to an incident involving the deaths of five civilians at the hands of British troops on March 5, 1770, the legal aftermath of which helped spark the rebellion in some of the British colonies in America, which culminated in the American Revolution. A tense situation because of a heavy British military presence in Boston boiled over to incite brawls between soldiers and civilians, and eventually led to troops discharging their muskets after being attacked by a rioting crowd. Three civilians were killed at the scene of the shooting, and two died after the incident.[1]"
or the words of jefferson....
"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."
or the warning
"First they came for the communists, I was not a communist, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the socialists and trade unionists, I was neither so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew, so I did not speak out. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me."
Pastor Martin Niemoeller, Nazi victim.
as though anything difficult in life did not require sacrifice...
...peace...
People should not be confused with property. Corporations should not be confused wirh human beings. Money should not be confused with free speech."Lobbying" should not be confused with lobbyists. Free trade should not be confused with globalism.
In the past 10 years, this has been the strategy of stopping dissent. And, unfortunately, the tactics are only getting more repressive. The progressive movement needs to find another way of resistance. This is not working.
This year, I decided not to participate in the Convention protests (I have been providing legal support since the RNC/DNC in 2000). I am much more interested in having a conversation about effective resistance than being pepper-sprayed. I am willing to put my butt on the line, and have over and over many times, but I am not willing to do it until we are clear in what are goals are and what we want to accomplish has been articulated and a tactic and strategy that might work.
In the meantime, I will continue to offer legal support (I work for a criminal defense lawyer) to those who do not have the NLG watching their backs on their streets where they are harrassed and arrested and beaten and sometimes killed by cops every day.
"I will continue to offer legal support (I work for a criminal defense lawyer) to those who do not have the NLG watching their backs on their streets where they are harrassed and arrested and beaten and sometimes killed by cops every day."
I see why you work for a lawyer...this statement negates 'redress of grievances,' since 'progressive' is not synonymous with 'resistance.'
Also, working for a lawyer is not the same as being a lawyer. As for your providing legal support, do you have a caregiver? I'm serious, here. You sound as if you wrote this while having your brain handcuffed to an inanimate object for the last 50 yrs. Are you in need of 911?
I feel like I'm developing multiple personality disorder. On the one hand, there are articles like yesterday's "Building an Anti-Economy", by Chris Carlsson, that inspire hope and thoughts like, "We may just pull out of this yet...", and then there are articles like this one that inspire fear and despair. I wonder if the number of suicides have gone up in recent months? I bet they have.
I don't see this article as engendering fear and despair. To me, it's more like a good hardy slap across the face to wake people up... to make people actively question. To be more proactive to call people and by association certain government policies on their falsehoods and work to not let things slip further into a hole than they already have. So, while its unpleasant, it is important. I think all of us have let a lot of things that are blatantly wrong slide over the past few years. We can't do that anymore. We are better than this.
The women's right movement suceeded because half the population is made up of women. They recognized each other easily and united . Not all, but given the large numers, enough. Blacks were victorious because they recognized each other easily and all shared the same injustice. They were very united. The evangelicals are succeeeding because they are very united and have ways of recognizing each other and sizable numbers. The left is in disarray, doesn't have big numbers and barely recognizes each other..Greens splitting votes with Nader is not good. They should unite.....but because ofpride........Leftists are going to Obama on the excuse of being realistic, robbing the movement against the corruption of the state of its force. The election is meaningless. We all know who is going to win, they are. This election can help the movement grow. Neither Obama nor McCain will be our President, he will be theirs. McKinney should join Nader as VP. Neither can win so it hardly matters who is first, but Nader has huge seniority. Give him the top spot. Begin to build an alternative, let whoever win and build on their mistakes. There is need for a movementlizard
I know that suicides amonmg troops and vets is soaring. There are also alot of suicides among the elderly.
Suicide rates continue to be the highest in the 16-26 year old group, with a strong following by 26-34 year olds who have not yet completed a Master's or PhD. requirements.
The next highest group are cops.
I always thought it was dentists....
Heres a good starting point:
http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html#2005
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
All that was missing was the cathedral of light designed by Albert Speer. It was a Triumph of the Swill (borrowing from Jello Biafra).
I first received word about these tyrannical acts via blogs by Starhawk, a writer and witch who has done many good things in post-Katrina New Orleans. She and her group of peaceful protesters were in Minnesota to bring attention to the country's abandonment of the poor, the pillage of Iraq, and the threat of war in Iran, among other things. When I read what happened to some of those people--arrested, tazered, left in jail without medical treatment, their offices raided (with guns trained on children), their vehicles confiscated--I kept screaming at my boyfriend: "Are we living in Stalinist Russia now? I thought this was the United States of America!" I screamed myself hoarse. Then, in later days, I read of Amy Goodman being arrested as she tried to help her producers who were covering the protests. I became very frightened, then VERY angry. "Bling" Palin and McSame will continue these atrocities, but we must not waiver. We must continue to organize, protest, write, and stand up to the tyranny, then answer the door calmly, our heads up, when the jackboots come knockin' in our own neighborhoods.
i am not an american but closely following the events in your country particularly this coming election. this is not only your election but that of the world since your country affects all of us . I could not figure out how still many americans can be fooled by mcshame and palin!!! just want to congratulate you in your committment to continue whatever you can do to counter the forces of unquenchable thirst for greed and power.and with congratulations i am offering prayers for all the good works being done by conscientious people like you. can your comment and also this commondream's news be more widely publicized to inform more people? i do not think many are reading commondreams. maybe you can help in that area,too.
karin,
Very few USAns as a percentage, visit this site.
And, in spite of this site being available to anyone who can read in english around the words, Those who aprticipate in this comment section are so few that we practically know each other.
Many of those outside the USA (particularly Canadians) seem to think that Obama is some kind of savior and all will be right if he is elected - but don't get your hopes too high. All he represents is the socially liberal yuppie city-slicker wing of the imperialist war machine.
The hidden Enemy Within is European in origin, consisting of individuals who lived through and survived the horrors of the Second World War.
Regarding the posting of Nanny and the words of Nader on power. If Palin were to ever become the President how could we say that power is in the hands of the elites? Power is sinking into the hands of the lowest because our best minds have refused to surface and make plain what we make of power in our culture. Is that the idea? I'm in shock. I think the worst will come to pass, people will see what we have wrought and the tide will turn..... the Germans didn't get it until they had committed the worst atrocity that human kind has seen. Sometimes things just go to their inevitable and ghastly conclusion before sanity returns.
Sometimes people post things on CD that deserve being hidden. If I have guests come to my home and my dog takes a crap on the floor I'm going to try and hide it before they get here. I think we all know dog crap when we see it.
Crap is crap and it's meant to offend so get over it......
So your definition of 'crap' establishes your power structure.
You have a small knowledge of what is interpreted as "Free Speech."
You "...hide it..."? Your dog crap? Are you saving it for Halloween?
If my dog craps on the floor, I CLEAN IT UP, and get the old Potpourri going.
Sheezzz...
Some people should not have a position of "Guardian of Free Speech."
But then, "What is "validity?"
The point is not that I see myself as guardian of free speech and I too hide the crap by removing it to the waste. There are people whose postings are so venomous and vile and purely for the sake of being so that while they do indeed have the right to spew their venom and vile the overwhelming majority of us have the right to not want to be sickened by it. I think it occurred to the moderators at CD to act as good hosts who would not have guests sickened while the offending matter sat on the floor smoldering. Liberals have made the mistake in the past of not defending against things which are clearly meant to be purely destructive (Howard Stern comes to mind).... and if you want to declare as terrorists do that terrorism... i.e.pure destructiveness in action or words... is the only response left to the completely powerless than you are already lost....... and some speech is meant as just that... purely destructive and that is my definition of crap. I think this is valid.
Your reasoning is suffering from rationalizing to restrict free speech. Free speech by definition is just that. It is not in this context, as a conservative SCOTUS once ruled, equivalent to shouting fire in a theater.
My presence here goes back before I retired, so about 5 years. CD posters are mild compared to quite a few others. However, that is beside the point.
There are religious zealots on this site that tread all over my civil rights with their repetitive dogma justifying their opinions. This IS illegal. Whereas your persnickety, soap in your mouth attitude, or mentality, only whines to support your religious derivative, avoiding the religiousity to prevent a readily apparent illegal request. Thus, your context is 'offensive by false allusion to 'taste.' That, and 'common decency,' also have been shown to be 'narrowing' of a 'larger concept of human behavior and beliefs.'
Therefore, I suggest a stretching of your definitions, and limited experience.
Thank you.
"Free speech by definition is just that. "
You confuse the right of free speech with the right of people to provide a forum under the terms they wish. There is nothing in the Constitution requiring anyone to provide a forum or other resources to accommodate your speech that is on you. There is nothing in the Constitution that says you speech must be heard or that people should listen.
You are a *guest* here.
"There are religious zealots on this site that tread all over my civil rights with their repetitive dogma justifying their opinions. This IS illegal. "
Your civil rights cannot be violated, by definition, on a web forum graciously provided to you. CD can pull the plug on you or pull the big plug to the whole forum anytime they want. You are not exactly in the public square. You have no right to be here. It's a privilege.
As usual, Jakeboy, your fuddled mind is attempting to redefine, with false logic, intimidation by insult and ostracizing. It is for certain that you are not here by invitation, your here for the joke you are.
"attempting to redefine, with false logic"
Nothing in my last post was false, and the logic is sound. In fact, that post was perfect, and the irony is that it's only this whiny post of yours that is false.
You have no free speech rights on the Common Dreams comment area, and that is that. Shake your fist about it all you want, but you would have been better off not replying.
Artemis what is "destructive?" Am I destructive and should I be banned if I say the old white guys who wrote the Constitution got a few things right and the 2nd amendment was one of them as a check on government power? Serious question, BTW? Remember one persons "shit" is another persons you are really in denial about how you fight actual fascists aren't you? Read Orwell's Homage to Catalonia if you have no idea what I am talking about... Hint it's not just right wingers who are armed, Chavez is (wisely IMO) building a citizen militia to resist a U.S. invasion as we speak.
Will I be allowed to speak this perspective? I am curious...
The United States began as a citizen militia right? I'm thinking the old white guys that wrote the Constitution never meant for it to ossify the way it has...... it's sort of like John McCain and needs to be seriously rejuvenated. It's kind of sickly these days.
If I were Hugo Chavez I'd be putting together more than a citizen militia to resist what our State Department has probably been dreaming of for many years now...... he'd be pretty stupid not to. Destruction is taking a jet full of human beings and flying it into a building and destroying several thousand human beings to make a point. Shock and Awe at the beginning of the Iraq invasion was destruction to make a point. It was saying we are going to do this because we can and because what we want and what we believe is more important than the the value of human life. The last several years we have seen terrorism answered by more and greater terrorism. Destructive speech is speech that has as it's only function to make the hearer feel some kind of shock or gratification that a boundary of commonly accepted decency has been crossed. Bill Maher is really really smart for instance. Howard Stern is too stupid to ever think of anything a fraction as smart as Maher so he's made a name for himself by saying things that appeal to the biology of shock rather than the higher functions. How do I fight back against fascism? Get the hell out of the way......
The hidden Enemy Within is European in origin, consisting of people who lived through and survived the Second World War.
"Republican Tyranny on Display at Corporate Convention?"
"Display of Tyranny at Republican Convention?"
"Convention Display of Republican Tyranny?'
Any and all of the above is sufficient explanation for both parties conventions.
Thanks, Mr. Hedges. I hope your writing is syndicated for all media. A barely heard, derisive laugh.
We should all love a good fight. We want to oblige our 'fight or flight' biological responses. We ARE outraged. We KNOW we live in a fragile shell of 'life denied.' Fuck freedom. I want my LIFE. Freedom is always defined by someone else to define the lives of others. This article is more of the proof. Fuck their 'tyranny.' Definition denied.
It says so on my birth certificate and the Constitution of the country I was born in, served for, contributed to, paid to and participate in.
Lock and load...
Peace died...the day the music stopped.
Huh?!
Peggy
The hidden Enemy Within is European in origin. The scheme for the most prodigious kill-off of humanity in history has been in the planning since the post-World War Two era.
Will it be preceded by a horrendous terrorist attack somewhere in the United States, nuclear in nature? (a large dam, perhaps) Will it be accompanied by a partial or total disablement of the nation's electric power grid?
How will millions of people be effectively traumatized so as to be incapable of preventing their transport to mass death chambers? Think: Convention Centers.
Be persuaded of my knowledge that the chances of being taken seriously in this matter, to the extent that I succeed in preventing what is coming, are cobweb thin.
The Maverick McSame said, "I don't work for Washington DC, I worjk for you!" But he also said he doesn't give a rats ass about popular opinion, "I'd rather lose an election, than a war."
My question is, "How can McSame work for the people if he doesn't give a rats ass about our opinions?"
As we decry the tactics of the Bush era which harken back to those of every authoritarian government of our time, the Republican heart fills with pride that their government is "protecting" them from the "bad guys." If you're not doing anything wrong then what is there to be afraid of? Unfortunately, this logic will not hold up due to the mould they are forming that will allow, if not your own, then your children or your children's children's arrest for standing in the wrong place, looking at the wrong thing or reading the wrong book. This is a baby fascist organization which is aching for an end to the debate. Our way or the highway now, they seem to say, or off to prison you go (because I'm going to protect my family from you (really your ideas) at all costs). As Bush said, it would all be much easier if the U.S. was ruled by dictatorship. Give it time, nurture it with precedent breaking examples such as went down in MInnesota, and in a few years the Republican dream may just come true. Little by little we will receive the New World Order with Republicans captaining the ship and you and yours, if you dissent, in prison. The framework is in place. This ain't the party of Lincoln anymore.
"If you're not doing anything wrong then what is there to be afraid of?"
IT's true that our defense from terrorism is more important than our civil rights. So complaints over civil rights iseems like grasping for political straws to achieve power.
But only if we ignore the fact that the terrorism is blowback to US imperial overreach. And the imperial enterprise is fueled by us, without our consent, without our resistance. The responsibility is ours, the people's, to stop the imperial enterprise from siphoning our energy into its imperial fuel tank.
We have to vote the imperialists out. We have to "vote third party" in all of our individual exchange/association. Only then can we claim to do nothing wrong and have nothing to be afraid of.
rtdrury September 8th, 2008 10:36 pm
"IT's true that our defense from terrorism is more important than our civil rights. So complaints over civil rights iseems like grasping for political straws to achieve power."
"Those who would trade their freedom for a little temporary security deserve neither freedom nor security"
Benjamin Franklin
Lobo Gris
On the contrary, LINCOLN is their model. They love him. He walked all over the constitution too, and aggressed the south unjustly. What's so different?.He was an imperialist too...............lizard
Don't make the mistake of assuming this is a Republican thing.
Much of this I saw here in Denver. There was a difference, in that the Democrats were maybe less extreme, but ...
The Democrats in Denver did ...
-- infiltrate and monitor any group planning protests.
-- target and attack the radical kids who tried to organize an action on Monday night here. That's when most of the couple of hundred of arrests happened here in Denver. At the same time, the police rampaged through the part that was hosting a 'festival of democracy'.
-- target and attack the 'convergence center'. They held anyone who was there when they attacked as hostages for several hours. The difference is they didn't close it permanently like in MN. But it did appear as if one of the goals of the raid was to seize video shot by protesters and independent media.
-- have trucks full of riot police around every protest, peaceful or not. Remember, the IVAW march here, which was very peaceful, was met by hundreds of riot police determined to keep them out of sight of the convention and any delegates. Only when the vets in uniform stood their ground, and the Obama campaign realized that they didn't want the video of police attacking vets in uniform, were they allowed even to deliver a meek letter to the Obama campaign. Judging from Obama's speech the next night, the letter ended up in a trash can.
So, there was a difference. There wasn't the extreme of raids on private homes before hand, or on all the gathering places of the protesters. There wasn't quite the attacks on the media, although some independent journalists were arrested here, and certainly others were 'detained' for hours at a time during both the raid on the convergence center and during Monday night's arrests.
I say this just to warn people to be careful about assuming this is just the Republicans. Remember, the Democrats in Congress have supported every law that lets them do this, and consistently given them immunity when they've gone too far. Trace that back to Clinton and the FBI and his passing of the first domestic anti-terror bills.
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"To know, and not to do, is not to know"
www.samsonsworld.blogspot.com
"So, there was a difference. There wasn't the extreme of raids on private homes before hand, or on all the gathering places of the protesters."
Oh come on. I am getting sick of the defense of goon behavior seen here in the Twin Cities. Read carefully: There were not "extreme raids" on ALL gathering places in StPaul. Most of the legal protesters were peaceful and the police didn't do anything to them. What they stoppped were illegal protests (those without permits) and the masked anarchists trashing the town. Yes some innocent people got caught up in the sweeps, as there always are in things like this.
The pre-convention raids netted things like this: Molotov cocktails, homemade plastic shields, buckets of urine, gas masks. Do these things sound like these people were planning a peaceful protest?
kman2 says: "The pre-convention raids netted things like this: Molotov cocktails, homemade plastic shields, buckets of urine, gas masks. Do these things sound like these people were planning a peaceful protest?"
Can you provide a source/sources for this statement? I hadn't heard that the police had found anything significant during these preemptive raids.
Still, I don't believe in the legality of preemptive raids.
ieb September 8th, 2008 8:41 pm
From what I read they found empty glass bottles, containers of gasoline and rags which could be used to make molotov cocktails, not already made ones. The same items can also be used for gasoline for the family lawnmower, rags for cleaning, and empty bottles to make vases if you're into crafts. All of which can be found in many homes with no nefarious intent.
I also read that they found one bucket of urine, not buckets, that was being used for a toilet in an apartment.
Same for the gas mask, I read that they found one, hardly the makings of a revolution.
Lobo Gris
If they aren't doing anything wrong, then why is everything they do labeled "Top Secret"? What are they afraid of? Why did Bush lock up his Daddie's papers from 20 years ago?
There are 750,000 people/groups listed on teh "Questionable Citizens" list. Among them--Am Friends Services Comm (Quakers), Greenpeace, Sea Shepherd (hel dfor 2 mos for refusing to hand over membership lists), Earth First!, SP-USA, CP-USA, everyone who works at The Nation (HARDLY liberal, at times), Nader et l, McKinney, Michael Moore, you would be amazed. That is why the Patriot Act changed almost everything and why it was so important to stand up to changes in the FISA Laws. It matters.
the_idle_wretch
Everything that man esteems
Endures a moment or a day.
Love's pleasure drives his love away,
The painter's brush consumes dreams ;
The herald's cry, the soldier's tread
Exhaust his glory and his might :
Whatever flames upon the night
Man's own resinous heart has fed.
[see "Two songs From a Play" by William Butler Yeats 1865-1939]
What I would like someone to do is this: make a split screen movie of what went on inside at the Republican Convention on one half of the screen, and on the other half of the screen show what was going on outside at the same time.
When people were swooning and chanting "USA is God's Favorite Country" while simultaneously the riot police (so called because they start riots) are pepper spraying non-violent people standing up for their first amendment rights of free speech (also referred to as protesters or terrorists, interchangeable these days), that would be a clear indication of exactly what this country has become (or always has been).
Did anyone from the democratic party leadership speak up about oppressive police actions in Denver or Minneapolis? Thought not.
www.NotOneMore.US September 8th, 2008 3:29 pm
"What I would like someone to do is this: make a split screen movie of what went on inside at the Republican Convention on one half of the screen, and on the other half of the screen show what was going on outside at the same time."
One of the best ideas I have heard in a while. I would pay to go see it and would buy the DVD when it came out.
Lobo Gris
P.S. Michael Moore where are you?