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Could Afghanistan Become Obama’s Vietnam?
Yet what if they got the wrong predecessor? What if Mr. Obama is fated to be another Lyndon B. Johnson instead?
(Bill Pugliano, left, and Tyler Hicks/The New York Times) To be sure, such historical analogies are overly simplistic and fatally flawed, if only because each presidency is distinct in its own way. But the L.B.J. model - a president who aspired to reshape America at home while fighting a losing war abroad - is one that haunts Mr. Obama's White House as it seeks to salvage Afghanistan while enacting an expansive domestic program.
In this summer of discontent for Mr. Obama, as the heady early days give way to the grinding battle for elusive goals, he looks ahead to an uncertain future not only for his legislative agenda but for what has indisputably become his war. Last week's elections in Afghanistan played out at the same time as the debate over health care heated up in Washington, producing one of those split-screen moments that could not help but remind some of Mr. Johnson's struggles to build a Great Society while fighting in Vietnam.
"The analogy of Lyndon Johnson suggests itself very profoundly," said David M. Kennedy, the Stanford University historian. Mr. Obama, he said, must avoid letting Afghanistan shadow his presidency as Vietnam did Mr. Johnson's. "He needs to worry about the outcome of that intervention and policy and how it could spill over into everything else he wants to accomplish."
By several accounts, that risk weighs on Mr. Obama these days. Mr. Kennedy was among a group of historians who had dinner with Mr. Obama at the White House earlier this summer where the president expressed concern that Afghanistan could yet hijack his presidency. Although Mr. Kennedy said he could not discuss the off-the-record conversation, others in the room said Mr. Obama acknowledged the L.B.J. risk.
"He said he has a problem," said one person who attended that dinner at the end of June, insisting on anonymity to share private discussions. "This is not just something he can turn his back on and walk away from. But it's an issue he understands could be a danger to his administration."
Another person there was Robert Caro, the L.B.J. biographer who was struck that Mr. Johnson made some of his most fateful decisions about Vietnam in the same dining room. "All I could think of when I was sitting there and this subject came up was the setting," he said. "You had such an awareness of how things can go wrong."
Without quoting what the president said, Mr. Caro said it was clear Mr. Obama understood that precedent. "Any president with a grasp of history - and it seems to me President Obama has a deep understanding of history - would have to be very aware of what happened in another war to derail a great domestic agenda," he said.
Afghanistan, of course, is not exactly Vietnam. At its peak, the United States had about 500,000 troops in Vietnam, compared with about 68,000 now set for Afghanistan, and most of those fighting in the 1960s were draftees as opposed to volunteer soldiers. Vietnam, therefore, reached deeper into American society, touching more homes and involving more unwilling participants. But the politics of the two seem to evoke comparisons.
Just as Mr. Johnson believed he had no choice but to fight in Vietnam to contain communism, Mr. Obama last week portrayed Afghanistan as the bulwark against international terrorism. "This is not a war of choice," he told the Veterans of Foreign Wars at their convention in Phoenix. "This is a war of necessity. Those who attacked America on 9/11 are plotting to do so again. If left unchecked, the Taliban insurgency will mean an even larger safe haven from which Al Qaeda would plot to kill more Americans."
But while many Americans once shared that view, polls suggest that conviction is fading nearly eight years into the war. The share of Americans who said the war in Afghanistan was worth fighting slipped below 50 percent in a survey released last week by The Washington Post and ABC News. A July poll by the New York Times and CBS News showed that 57 percent of Americans think things are going badly for the United States in Afghanistan, compared with 33 percent who think they are going well.
That growing disenchantment in the countryside is increasingly mirrored in Washington, where liberals in Congress are speaking out more vocally against the Afghan war and newspapers are filled with more columns questioning America's involvement. The cover of the latest Economist is headlined "Afghanistan: The Growing Threat of Failure."
Richard N. Haass, a former Bush administration official turned critic, wrote in The New York Times last week that what he once considered a war of necessity has become a war of choice. While he still supports it, he argued that there are now alternatives to a large-scale troop presence, like drone attacks on suspected terrorists, more development aid and expanded training of Afghan police and soldiers.
His former boss, George W. Bush, learned first-hand how political capital can slip away when an overseas war loses popular backing. With Iraq in flames, Mr. Bush found little support for his second-term domestic agenda of overhauling Social Security and liberalizing immigration laws. L.B.J. managed to create Medicare and enact landmark civil rights legislation but some historians have argued that the Great Society ultimately stalled because of Vietnam.
Mr. Obama has launched a new strategy intended to turn Afghanistan around, sending an additional 21,000 troops, installing a new commander, promising more civilian reconstruction help, shifting to more protection of the population and building up Afghan security forces. It is a strategy that some who study Afghanistan believe could make a difference.
But even some who agree worry that time is running out at home, particularly if the strategy does not produce results quickly. Success is so hard to imagine that Richard Holbrooke, Mr. Obama's special representative for Afghanistan, this month came up with this definition: "We'll know it when we see it."
The consequences of failure go beyond just Afghanistan. Next door is its volatile neighbor Pakistan, armed with nuclear weapons and already seething with radical anti-American elements.
"It could all go belly up and we could run out of public support," said Ronald E. Neumann, a former ambassador to Afghanistan and now president of the American Academy of Diplomacy. "The immediate danger is we don't explain to Americans how long things take. I certainly get questions like, ‘Is the new strategy turning things around? Is the civilian surge working?' We're not going to even get all of those people on the ground for months."
Others are not so sure that the new strategy will make a difference regardless of how much time it is given. No matter who is eventually declared the winner of last week's election in Afghanistan, the government there remains so plagued by corruption and inefficiency that it has limited legitimacy with the Afghan public. Just as America was frustrated with successive South Vietnamese governments, it has grown sour on Afghanistan's leaders with little obvious recourse.
Lt. Col. Douglas A. Ollivant, a retired Army officer who worked on Iraq on the National Security Council staff first for Mr. Bush and then for Mr. Obama, said Afghanistan may be "several orders of magnitude" harder. It has none of the infrastructure, education and natural resources of Iraq, he noted, nor is the political leadership as aligned in its goals with those of America's leadership.
"We're in a place where we don't have good options and that's what everyone is struggling with," Colonel Ollivant said. "Sticking it out seems to be a 10-year project and I'm not sure we have the political capital and financial capital to do that. Yet withdrawing, the cost of that seems awfully high as well. So we have the wolf by the ear."
And as L.B.J. discovered, the wolf has sharp teeth.
- Posted in

83 Comments so far
Show AllDon't want Afghanistan to be another Vietnam? GET OUT NOW! Or just continue to add to the coffers of the MIC and further solidify your one term presidency based on volumes of empty golden rhetoric.
The answer to the title question is.....YES!!!!!!1
I second that. We are again invading a fiercely independent country for some obscure and convoluted reasons. It will be the military equivalent of Vietnam.
As for payback for 911, justice will not by done by laying waste to Afghanistan. It would be the moral and legal equivalent of invading upstate New York and killing all the Irish Catholic families as a response to the Oklahoma City bombings. At least there we knew it was Timothy McVeigh who killed the American civilians.
We have never seen a documented explanation of the 911 conspiracy. If the official explanation is true, then we should be having words with Saudi Arabia. Sometimes I doubt that Osama bin Laden exist as he has been depicted. In any case, the likelihood of finding him is now close to zero and almost irrelevant. Our invasions have been recruiting tools for many bin Ladens.
Behaving like a rational world citizen and not a brutal territory opener for corporations will make us safer.
Joe
jclientelle August 23rd, 2009 10:15 am..........Could be, OBL has been dead since December 2001....try this on for size..............
http://www.informationclearinghouse.
info/article23127.htm
If our most "dangerous enemy" is dead all this time, maybe killing them makes them more dangerous.
We should send them food and apologies for invading them over a "dead man".
They would get that as a reasonable act of humanity.
Re: "At least there we knew it was Timothy McVeigh who killed the American civilians."
That's what the ministry of information told us to believe. But there are major problems with that story:
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=155
http://911review.com/precedent/decade/okc.html
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20060221_oklahoma_city_bombing/
I do not see how anyone can consider Obama more than a one term president. We the people are the voters. We know we have been suckered big time by the lofty but empty words of Obama. Who could see this, face themselves and vote for him again.
What Obama supports we do not as a people. We do not want war and military domination by our military, that is not what it is for. We do not want to work and pay taxes so that bankers get rich with our money and we get thrown out in the street. We do not want to see felow Americans homeless begging on our streets. We do not want the insurance industry to profit off us while we go untreated. We do not want the torture and secrecy he continues.
We want single payer. We want good honorable jobs that support our families. We want clean air, water and mountains with theirs tops on. We want to fix all these things about our country and pass it to our children in better condition then when we got it from our parents.
There is no hope that Obama will help us in these huge struggles. How can anyone consider re-electing someone who in such a short period of time has so completely failed to support any one of the policies that we the people want?
Let's not forget the power of the voting machines...
If for some reason the election doesnt go the way that the corporatists want it to, they can always make a close election "flip" to the ore-selected corporate candidate with a little tweaking by the folks who own the voting machines... For those that think the Democrats are beyond cheating to win an election, recall how Al Gore and Kerry presided over their own election "Losses", since "W" was the "chosen one" to further the corporatist globalist agenda... And Mike Connell's plane mysteriously crashed before he was going to testify before congress on how the IT whiz "fixed" the elections of 2000 & 2004...
One thing I realized in my dialogue with a deployed invader, is that many of the soldiers are not unaware of the true motives ( oil pipelines and squeeze Iran and Pakistan) but rather the invaders are amoral and believe might makes right.
The USA thinks it has the wherewithall to crush Pastun sovereignity so it will try too.
Of course amorality is evident among the Masters of War but I myself, and surely some others, need to keep in mind that justice,peace and prosperity are irrelevant issues for the robokiller stormtrooper( when these goals concern the "Other").
Even the tone of this article is more of the inconvenience of slaughtering 100,000's of people rather than the morality of ethnic cleansing.
Americans don't really mind war as such; they just don't like getting their hair mussed. It's the "we're number one" syndrome and it applies equally across the full spectrum of political activities where backing a winner is more important than almost any of the principles involved.
Wow.....all that from talking to one soldier. "They are all amoral and believe might makes right."
Don't you think it might be better to with hold judgement till you know more about something? Perhaps not believing bar talk?
Most of the Summer Soldiers were nowhere near Viet Nam but people still take their testimony as gospel. Please consider the possibility that you are wrong about these kids. I doubt they are any different than those that came before.
Hi Henry. You have a point about generalising the attitudes of "all", but that's not exactly what was posted. It's not entirely clear whether "the invaders" was actually intended to indicate "all" of the common foot soldiers. If so, you're right, but you weaken your argument when you misquote people.
I did not mean all I meant some are amoral, some are clueless , some are insane , and some are weak. There might be more categories. These people are willing pawns in war crimes and their personal responsibilty cannot be dismissed. Even ignorance in the eyes of the law is no defense.
"I did not mean all I meant some are amoral, some are clueless , some are insane , and some are weak."
This is akin to saying all Americans are Nazis because of Iraq and all the other wars these last 40 years. Which also makes you and me a Nazi assuming you are American. Tarring everyone with the same brush has a nasty habit of sticking to you.
Know more about what? What bar? The soldier is presently deployed.
Do you mean Winter Soldiers? Like Kerry?
Are you defending those who perpetrate the crimes of War in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan?
If so, how can you discount so many millions of criminal deaths?
Looks that way but with one important difference. We're in Afghanistan for the gas-oil routes. Since energy companies rule, the prospects for leaving are bleak.
"If you think the United States is nothing more than a self-interested empire", declared Barack Obama, "you're way off base." He actually believes this. And because he does, Afghanistan will blow up in his face. In fact, it already has. Victory or defeat is all someone like him recognizes. Remember that famous black and white photo of LBJ, taken from behind, standing slumped over a desk, hands splayed, supporting the weight of his defeat? We will eventually be seeing the equivalent photo of Obama. Obama was a child during Vietnam and has no adult memory of living through such a disaster. If he did, he might find some neatly disguised way to extricate this nation from that place. And so this yuppie, this boy scout in short pants, this bright and oh so clever president of the middle school student government will continue skipping his way through the graveyard at midnight.
If he really does believe that (doubtful IMO) he'd have to be the most naive politician in the history of the world. EVERY nation acts in its own interests, or at least based on what it perceives to be its own interests at the time. To do otherwise would, in fact, be treachery of the highest order.
The U.S. may differ from its imperial predecessors to some extent, but only inasmuch as "U.S. interests" are dictated by certain transnational corporations whose aims and ambitions may differ radically from, and may even be diametrically opposed to, the interests of ordinary Americans. Perhaps that's what O was thinking about, but that phenomenon is neither new nor unique either. It's been happening that way for quite a long while.
Someone needs to put Neil Sheehan's A Bright Shining Lie on Mr Obama's summer reading list.
Obama wouldn't read it, charlie.
He'd be too pissed off upon discovering that someone had already used the working title of the next installment of his memoirs.
· Yr Obd't Servant
Hmmmmm....
Zibigniew Brzezinsky, Obombya's campaign advisor and Carter's Foreign policy advisor and CFR godfather... Was the mastermind behind the Carter Doctrine and used covert CIA and Pakistani ISI operations to bring Saudi Wahabbists to Afghanistan (al queda) to draw Russia into a proxy war of attrition... Eventually bankrupting the Soviet Union... While Summers and the Vulcans were busy devaluing the Ruble with bogus securities they had no intention of paying back... When asked about it, he replied that he wanted to give Russia their version of Vietnam... Is it any wonder what the globalist agenda is for bogging the USA down in an unwinnable war in AfPak... And bankrupt the US economy thru worthless securities and derivatives...? They will get their TAPI pipeline no matter how many US soldiers, mercenaries, or civilians deaths it will take... While profiting immensely as the owners of the private military contractor corporations... It is all part of the Grand Chessboard for Full Spectrum Dominance...
To be a Superpower requires two things:
One, is having the military.
Two, is having a strong economy back home.
You have to have both!
Perhaps if economies were still based on the protectionism of nation-states... We now live in a globalized economy... With Chinese and Japanese tax-payers propping up our bankrupt economy through trade-deficits and buying war bonds... The Chinese Commie-Capitalists want the TAPI pipeline built as well... For it will continue onwards to China eventually...
The purpose of bankrupting the US economy is to steal the middle class wealth accrued since WWII, and keep the working class poor and more likely to enlist in the military... Since the Banksters own the Fed, they can print up money anytime they want, and loan it to Congress anytime they want, at interest... A bankrupt US economy has little effect on the Military or subsidies for private corporations... As the bailouts have proven to show... With the US industrial base largely moved overseas, and low-skilled labor insourced to migrant workers and privatized prison populations... The multinational corporatists have found a way around the two-part formula you suggest...
Besides... There have been other covert and illicit ways to fund the wars and low-intensity conflicts around the world for hundreds of years: Through drug running, like the East India Company & the Opium wars in China... Or the European Banksters use of Hessian troops and other mercenaries, to wholesale robbing of the US treasury & Pentagon to the tune of Trillion$, to Saudi oil money, to the lucrative black market of Afghani heroin and Colombian cocaine being run by the CIA and military contractors... The same European banksters (ie: House of Rothschild) funded Hitler and Napoleon and the Bolsheviks in their rise to power, while making loans to both sides of the wars at high interest rates, as well as selling weaponry to both sides of the conflict... With no regard to the citizens and innocents in those countries who they exploit to further their agenda for Full Spectrum Dominance... What makes you think that America is any different...?
Good analysis . I would disagree with the Chinese being satified with a USA controled pipeline. The Chinese understandably want independent sources of oil.
The USA wars are about control of oil because the USA supply of oil is projected to come from the Alantic basin.
Upon further reflection... I would have to agree with you Glen...
I was speculating about China, and after rereading the "Full-Spectrum Dominance" article at GlobalResearch.ca, I realized that I misinterpreted the information...
Thanks for the clarification...
Cheers
Afghanistan & Vietnam are not apt comparisons. For one thing, the two countries are quite different in terms of people, climate, & landscape. Where the two countries are eerily similar is a national history of resistance to outside influence. Whatever hope of "victory" existed in Afghanistan has long since passed. The best that can achieved is to make sure those in the country whom would not do well under a redux of the Taliban (Tadjiks, Hazaras, Uzbeks, & Kirgiz mostly) are left in a position to effectively resist them.
Is Obama insane? Is he schizophrenic which is a condition in which one has lost contact with reality often including delusions and hallucinations? Or is he psychopathic in being anti-social, cruel, merciless, brutal? And what about the people around him? Supposedly, he knows about The American War in Vietnam. Some say he is very intelligent being a lawyer, going to top-notch school, obviously successful. Is it all for money and power and what, fame and glory? Is this how it is done by successful, powerful, influential, rich people? Is there another way to build a supposed pipeline? Do these wars serve the interests of Rham Emmanuel and Israel? Does the destruction and misery of thousands of lives in US and abroad mean nothing? What are these people in charge? Obama and his administration's justification for these war's are not worth refuting - - they are patently ridiculous. Is this the delusion: that Obama and US is going to "win"? Perhaps Obama is a megalomanic - - he thinks he is so great, so clever or is it some kind of God complex? And the military and the Congress, the mass media, the citizens, what do they see and want? Does anyone believe these words that come out of Obama's mouth. It's just crazy. To me the calm talking, seemingly rational on the surface individual with perverted, sick mind is the most dangerous as we are now seeing.
The situation in Afghanistan is "serious and deteriorating," Washington's top military officer said on Sunday.
"I think it is serious and it is deteriorating, and I've said that over the past couple of years, that the Taliban insurgency has gotten better, more sophisticated in their tactics," Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, told CNN.
Sometimes it seems that Obama himself is doing everything in his power to unmask himself to the entire nation as the great fraud that we leftists saw through at least 2 years ago.
How can someone disappoint so much and so fast? Barely 8 months into his term and he's making even Bush blush with joy. None of his attempts have been to the benefit of the American worker, to reverse 8 years of Bush, every move has been calculated to benefit the already disgustingly rich. Utterly revolting.
As I left church services this morning at a church whose congregation is heavily pro-Obama, I saw innumerable Obama 08 stickers on the cars, and more than one "out of Iraq" one but then I started to reflect that I've never seen an "out of Afghanistan" one: because AF/PAK is "Obama's war" and Iraq was "Bush's war", and "war" seems to be acceptable to these "peace-loving" people as long it is the war of the person they support for President? My thought (not a happy one) is that the American public might tolerate the continuation of that futile imperial adventure longer than they would have had the war become "McCain's war." Ironically, then, was the American vote for an "anti-war" candidate in 08 actually a vote promoting the prolongation of the wars in Asia? Just wondering.
I am a Nader voter. I had a home-made U.S. Imperialists out of Afghanistan and Iraq sign (8x11 card stock as it won't fit on a bumper sticker very easily). I only took it off temporarily to put one up to commemorate the murder of Otto Zehm by the Spokane Police Department. It is now back on my car, to the chagrine of some drivers in this military town (Fairchild Air Force Base, Gonzaga University ROTC, SERE Torture School, significant military retirement community, etc.) As I predicted well in advance of the Obama victory, the Democrats (and some who like to call themselves progressives, even leftists) desperately wanted to Obama to win so that they could go back to sleep, or at least not have to play the role of outraged, heart-broken, anti-Bush policies and anti-Bush war. We now have the same permanent government in Washington (virtually the same policies with the same career civil service employees and rotating political appointees from the corporate and think-tank worlds) and the same wars. So shouldn't we have the same outrage, the same anti-war movement (anemic as it was under Bush)? As I also have said many times, it is going to be up to the peoples of the world to deal with the U.S., as the U.S. public -- confused, deceived, and demobilized as it is -- is essentially a non-player, a bystander, who once every four years takes political action by voting to hand power back and forth between the two factions of the U.S. two-party ruling class consensus.
David Brookbank -- "Hasta donde debemos practicar las verdades?"
From the very beginning, the premise of this article is wrong. It states that Obama, like LBJ, is working to change the structure of the nation at home while trying to fight a war on foreign soil. I believe that the author confuses Obama's rhetoric with his actions. Our new President has done precious little to change the structure that matters most--the power structure--of the nation. Rather, he has continued to serve the interests of the same corporate entities and wealthy individuals as did his recent predecessors.
As Frank Rich recently suggested, we may have been punked.
Why Do I read 'Could' in the title and a even bigger 'could' in the article?
Would it help to speak Russian? Da. Will Americans in their glorious self righteousness and in bright shining exceptionalism walk the walk the Russians did in Afghanistan? Or as a matter of fact, did any other power that attempted to conquer and/or rule Afghanistan remain in there for more than it took to obliterate any whatsoever well equipped army?
To get to the core here is helpful. As it is all about Beliefs, (You can Believe Me that...) what We Are here looking at are Mr. President's Beliefs. Those can easily be matched up with the well known Beliefs of the Presidents before him, that did the job he is doing right Now.
What We have to focus on. On the Now. This article is but a reflection of an obsessive compulsive behavior that dwells in the past, yet never learns from it. The Now is always circumvented as even the brightest people get sometimes lost somewhere around the Now, but Are hardly ever in It. Eckhart Tolle helps to comprehend the insanity factor of it all.
Now, Why would it in any way matter, whether Obama can be compared to any other guy before him? Is it not more helpful to focus on what He does? The Afghanistan 'War', a war started against a political group of people, not a Nation per se, can not be 'won', it will forever only stop. With losers left and right.
Practicing The Law Of Attraction successfully, I know that My 'visualizations' are probably detrimentally opposite to the actions of Mr. Obama. In My 'World' Mr. Obama has the guts and the will to improve not only the image of the US, but the whole thing itself. With drastic steps that shall never stop through opposition of those voices that Are ultimately responsible for the mayhem in Afghanistan and elsewhere.
No 'news' about another not only questionable, but despicable executive order here and there will deter Me from imagining Obama as the Flip-Flopper he should Be. Flip-Flopping away from policies that are anything but humane, just and well intended to those policies that reflect a more profound and compassionate mind behind the calcium shell called skull.
Many more skulls will shed their flesh before reasonable age. Through a Military Government turned Corporation war has become the US largest 'income' source. Therefor, to Be at peace with the minds of people that have different views, Beliefs and Live styles is mandatory to starve out the one Belief that only military 'might' makes right and that we need the biggest military on the planet to spread human rights and democracy.
Yet, democracy has turned 'democrazy' as the constant altercation of what can Be agreed on as undeniable basic human rights towards a ruling power elite that does not like to even hear any questions about what Your Government should do for You. In a fascist world You don't need to want anything but what You are told to. Individuality is detrimental to it, it is the antidote.
Even with the support of the entire Universe We Are looking at a changing planetary face. The Afghanistan and all other 'wars' shall come to an end Now. Militarism shall come to an end Now. A good start would Be to focus on the issues on hand with articles that reflect that. This one reminds Me of the publications at the registers in a supermarket. Keep the sheople busy with unimportant banalities as the image where Michael Jackson died. What about the images of the Afghani and Pakistani children, blown into pieces by drones?
Of course We are better off keeping a cool head and to trust the Universe to come up with something to save Us from Our Selves.
Believe That You Can Change Your Beliefs.
I believe that one can change their own beliefs... But one cannot change the beliefs of another...
One can only provide information or be an example to those with differing beliefs... But "hoping" or "visualizing" for others to change their beliefs is "wishful thinking" and fantasy... That is what passes for new age spirituality these days... Have you ever tried to talk to a zealot? I have met zionist IDF sharpshooters who brag about shooting palestinian children to rid the land of those mangy dogs... No amount of hoping for them to change their ideology in the causal realm will get them to have a change of heart, as they cut themselves off from their soul's connection to Universal Spirit long ago... The millions of innocent civilians massacred wholesale in the native American & Armenian genocides, or the victims of the Nazi & Stalinist regimes, or themillions of SE Asians and South & Central Americans killed by the US military machine were ALL HOPING & PRAYING for world peace and an end to the wholesale slaughter of their families and neighbors and loved ones and livestock and crops and forests and cultures...
The idea that "Hope" will bring about "Change" is how the liberals got suckered into electing a CFR Goldman Sachs stooge to be the next War-Criminal-in-Cheif...
Give someone enough hope, and they will Chain themselves with complacency and wishful thinking...
Actually, Now that I think about it on a deeper level, only one image comes to mind:
George W. Bush sitting in a chair being a ventriloquist with an Obama Hand Puppet chatting away.
We Are served finest Entertainment brought to You by the Ruling Elite™. No specific Party Affiliation Required.
Believe That You Can Change Your Beliefs.
I don't care what anybody says, we have not had a real leader in the US for many years--we are nothing but the sum of all the bad leadership forced on us by a 2 party system which is always predictable--war, loan-sharking financial institutions, total oppression of the poor, Zionist's entanglement, poor but expensive health care system, over-imprisoned citizens, propagandized news media, false accomplishments, etc. etc. ad nauseum
I suppose it depends on what you mean by a "real leader", but I would argue that recent U.S. leadership has taken the country precisely in the direction desired by those who actually determine that leadership. The fact that it's not the direction that many ordinary Americans might prefer doesn't detract from the undeniable leadership skill involved.
M.K.Bhadrakumar's article in atimes is a must read:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/KH20Df02.html
We cannot seem to get ourselves disentangled from Pakistan. The solution in Afghanistan lies in Pakistan and Pakistans perceived 'right' to interfere in Afghanistans affairs. It seems as though all that matters is to mollify Pakistan and hence browbeat Afghanistan into accepting our solution.
If they managed to re-write Vietnam as a good war, just wait til they do it to Iraq.
"It was probably the 2nd worst war crime of the 20th century, exceeded only by the Nazis."
Just about. Though perhaps it might be outranked by Great War of Africa - (if you combine the first and second Congo Wars). It any case, like WWII and the Congo, the Vietnam War reached the level of genocide. But, in a way, Vietnam was worse than the Congo or WWII, because it so clearly could have been avoided and we had the option to end it at any time we wanted.
When you look at Iraq from the period of the Iran-Iraq War (in which we supported both sides against each other), the Gulf War, the decade of sanctions (killing over 1,000,000 Iraqis), then the invasion and ongoing occupation - our involvement in Iraq is also genocidal.
Suppose Tarantino will ever make a feel-good comedy about a group of Vietnamese people sneaking into the US to torture and maim Americans?
Yes, this is really an awful article, but it's from the NYT. I've read somewhere that the NYT has supported every U.S. war.
-TIA
Good rewrite, RichM.
Joe
Rich M: Thanks for using the word "war crime" in relation to Vietnam. We can also use the word "genocide". It is important to use these words when the apply. Of course, to do so is considered treasonous by some, which is precisely why we must use those words.
David Brookbank
"Hasta donde debemos practicar las verdades?"
The premise of this article is soooo flawed. Does anyone still believe that LBJ stayed the course in VN because of communism? It was capitalism that made him do it. And here we are again. Afghanistan is NOT about terrorism anymore than the genocide taking place in Palestine.
He made the decision before he got to the dining room, as part of his campaign. That the American populace did not then turn upon him demonstrates its tragically uncritical nature whenever a subject is important.
And now, after every hourly news program begins with a hysterical flapping of wings (just call it "the flapping geese news"), we're told how contentious the health care debate is, as if there's a debate to be had. Contention, yes, we can find that, but no debate.
The war in Afghanistan, similarly, fails to offer a debate, it is so obviously wrong (like the rightness of health care). And the contention has not been sufficient. Even the headline on this article, COULD AFGHANISTAN BECOME OBAMA'S VIETNAM? is woefully retarded. Afghanistan has been Obama's Vietnam from partway through his campaign.
Big Media will drop Afghanistan from the news as soon as they are told to, just like they did Iraq.
And, hence, the problem will be solved - cause in America, out of Big Media means out of what little mind remains...
Most popular question round mid-Oct: Afghanistan? We're still doin stuff over there? Huh...
the comical thing with these US interferences and meddling in other countries is:
with its history of involving itself for decades now in that region - specifically CIA schemes allied with what became the big power of the Taliban and the al qaeda for its imperial designs - and THEN causing through that further complications and blowbacks as well as chaos and disruptions in cultures far older , the USA is LIKELY never going to OWN UP to its MEDDLING as the SOURCE of all the chaos, disruptions, increased internecine quarrels, the rise of the taliban and al qaeda , the resorting to an enlargement of the opium trade by the dispossessed and uprooted or destabilized tribes, the continuing worsening of their economies, the opportunism of the brutal warlords and their factions , the deaths, maiming, loss of education , jobs, etc....
ALL THAT related to US IMPERIAL MEDDLING in a region with people and cultures with such complex interrelationships of thousands upon thousands of years that the JOHNNY COME LATELY US Empire THINKS it can
"rule" and "teach" with the "american way".....
what arrogance!
the USA has NEVER acknowledged ITS principal and central role in the destruction of vietnam, cambodia, laos ....
but one can just sniff how EAGERLY the USA would LOVE to take CREDIT for vietnam's RISING from the ashes of the WAR that the USA imposed on it.
that's going to be the same in central and east asia.
USA never admits its role as THE instigator of chaos and destruction and instabilities ---
but ANY improvement or semblance of order among the people in that region - based on THEIR own way of doing things;;; you can BET the USA is going to take credit for that..........
which will be more justification to do some MORE of the SAME imperial Meddling EVERYWHERE .
Anyone remember "guns and butter" during Veetnam?
"COULD?"........
it already IS and will go on to repeat the Cycle...
'merika goes abroad puffing and huffing like the Giant living up in the clouds...throws his weight around to SQUASH little Jack the Beanstalk .....until jack cuts off that vine...and Giant falls with big bump...
"Yet what if they got the wrong predecessor? What if Mr. Obama is fated to be another Lyndon B. Johnson instead?"
I think Nixon is a better comparison.
Until President Obama takes the reins of the military complex into his own hands and stops depending on the likes of Petraeus and Gates for his decision making, he will never be done with this war.
It is time, Mr. Obama, to start acting like a President and tell your military-industrial puppet cabinet and military generals, starting with Rahm Emanuel, Gates, Petraeus, and the DNC to stuff it. Tell the former President Clinton and the wannabe President Clinton that foreign policy is your policy not theirs, just as financial policy will be yours, not theirs, and clean house, sir. It is time to start firing people, Mr. President, and putting in place people who support the agenda you promised and who have the willingness and ability to accomplish it, which your current cabinet, military leaders, and your own staff do NOT!
Your promises to the American people were believed and you were given a mandate last year. Now tell Reid and Pelosi to start doing their jobs and bring the Blue Dogs to heal and tell the likes of John McCain, Joe Lieberman, John Boehner, and Eric Cantor that they are not the ones setting policy and that they had better start considering other job options because you are telling Eric Holder to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate the ENTIRE Bush Administration in all three branches of government for everything from abuse of power, to torture, to high crimes and misdemeanors to treason, regardless of where it leads and to whom.
You might also tell him to investigate those who are making threats against you, and since Secret Service is under Geithner's control, demand your "friend" replace your current detail with ones who take seriously the presence of guns at events where you appear considering the number of threats you are receiving. Do Geithner and his Wall Street cohorts have an agenda considerably more dangerous than the destruction of our economy, sir? It certainly appears to be the case.
It is time to stop acting like an appeaser, Mr. President, and start acting like the leader we elected you to be! Or, sir, you too will be looking for other employment in 2012!