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TechnoratiThousands Flee Bomb Attacks by US Drones
AMERICAN drone attacks on the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan are causing a massive humanitarian emergency, Pakistani officials claimed after a new attack yesterday killed 13 people.
![[File photo shows a US "Predator" drone passing overhead at a forward operating base near Kandahar. (AFP/Joel Saget)]](http://www.commondreams.org/files/article_images/drone_kandahar.jpg "drone_kandahar.jpg")
The dead and injured included foreign militants, but women and children were also killed when two missiles hit a house in the village of Data Khel, near the Afghan border, according to local officials.
As many as 1m people have fled their homes in the Tribal Areas to escape attacks by the unmanned spy planes as well as bombings by the Pakistani army. In Bajaur agency entire villages have been flattened by Pakistani troops under growing American pressure to act against Al-Qaeda militants, who have made the area their base.
Kacha Garhi is one of 11 tented camps across Pakistan's frontier province once used by Afghan refugees and now inhabited by hundreds of thousands of Pakistanis made homeless in their own land.
So far 546,000 have registered as internally displaced people (IDPs) according to figures provided by Rabia Ali, spokesman for the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, and Maqbool Shah Roghani, administrator for IDPs at the Commission for Afghan Refugees.
The commissioner's office says there are thousands more unregistered people who have taken refuge with relatives and friends or who are in rented accommodation.
Jamil Amjad, the commissioner in charge of the refugees, says the government is running short of resources to feed and shelter such large numbers. A fortnight ago two refugees were killed and six injured in clashes with police during protests over shortages of water, food and tents.
On the road outside Kacha Garhi camp, eight-year-old Zafarullah and his little brother are among a number of children begging for coins and scraps. "I want to go back to my village and school," he said.
With the attacks increasing, refugees have little hope of returning home and conditions in the camps will worsen as summer approaches and the temperatures soar.
Many have terrible stories. Baksha Zeb lost everything when his village, Anayat Kalay in Bajaur, was demolished by Pakistani forces. His eight-year-old son is a kidney patient needing dialysis and he has been left with no means to pay.
"Our houses have been flattened, our cattle killed and our farms and crops destroyed," he complained. "There is not a single structure in my village still standing. There is no way we can go back."
He sold his taxi to pay for food for his family and treatment for his son but the money has almost run out. "God bestowed me with a son after 15 years of marriage," he said. "Now I have no job and I don't know how we will survive."
Pakistani forces say they have killed 1,500 militants since launching antiTaliban operations in Bajaur in August. Locals who fled claim that only civilians were killed.
Zeb said he saw dozens of his friends and relatives killed. Villagers were forced to leave bodies unburied as they fled.
Pakistani officials say drone attacks have been stepped up since President Barack Obama took office in Washington, killing at least 81 people. A suicide attacker blew himself up inside a paramilitary base in Islamabad, killing six soldiers and wounding five yesterday.
93 Comments so far
Show AllSTRATFOR has been analyzing the drone attacks in Pakistan from a geopolitical perspective. Click here for video analysis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-27neSxydo
Drones. Drone operators. Cowardly. Totally. A cowardly country the U.S.
Go Obama! Use those Unmanned Drone Planes. I guess it makes it easier to accept the killing of all those civilians, children, when there is no actual people flying over the so-called targets. Way to go. It's like a big video game for those chicken-hawks in Washington D.C. I am so glad my tax money is being used to buy these remote control killing machines.
http://enemyartistkristofer.blogspot.com
What's the matter with these citizens? Don't they like "democracy"?
WHERE IS THE ANTI-WAR MOVEMENT? Now that a Dem is in, it seems to be happy with the continuing murder and mayhem inflicted in our names. "The new king just like the last..."
Mass movements do not happen because they are needed because they are always needed.
Mass movements happen when the people have no choice.
Not necessarily. People in Congo are in the direst straits, but there is no coordingated mass movement. Compared with the Congolese, the French people are living well and could choose not to contend. But they are organized and believe they are entitled to share in the national wealth.
Anger and fear about the economy are widespread here in the US. But it is not translating into effective action for the most part. Organization is one missing ingredient here. And understanding. And belief that we can accomplish anything.
In most industrialized countries labor unions stand up for working people. Our labor unions have allowed themselves to shrink and become impotent over the years.
Joe
True, when people are starving with nothing they don't have the energy, health or resources to effectively become a movement or organize. They just become a tool for aid organizations to funnel money to their corrupt governments.
Unmentioned in this article and in these posts is the fact that we have never seen an iota of evidence that "Al Qaeda" had anything to do with the 9-11 attacks. This was simply asserted by the Bush administration and has since entered the popular consciousness. And even if some connection could be demonstrated (though this has yet to happen), the shadow network of Islamic terrorism (which certainly does exist, though not remotely to the extent we are led to believe) clearly didn't have the wherewithal to cause the demolition of the three buildings after the planes crashed into two of them. Thus when I hear Obama utter the magic words "Al Qaeda" my heart sinks. Likewise when he says he wants to "kill Bin Laden." I wonder: Does he really believe this crap? Does he take it on faith? Is he merely repeating what his Zionist handlers are telling him to say? Or does he know, as is more likely the case, that "Al Qaeda" is simply newspeak shorthand for the much exaggerated "Islamic threat" and is simply evoking it for the frisson that it will produce down the spines of the credulous masses? And when he says he wants to "kill Bin Laden" does he not know that most of the world's intelligence agencies believe he is already dead? And even if we were to assume, for the sake of argument, that he was alive, does our new president think it acceptable, in the face of the absence of proof, to kill a man just like that, without due process, simply because he's been deemed an "enemy"? These are the implications of Obama's pronouncements on these subjects, in his justification for the escalation of an unjustifiable war, and they drive one to despair. Obomber has simply taken the baton from W's cocaine-trembling hand and is running with it. God help us all.
Bin Laden, Captain Hook, Roswell aliens. Al qaeda, the Fordham Baldies, the elders of Zion.
How much is fiction? Most of it. And yet it is being used to justify mass murder of civiilians. Shame on Obama.
Joe
Hey, drone pilots in Arizona - what's your mission? When will you know when to stop the killing?
Have you heard of the U.S. Phoenix program in Vietnam? You're doing it again.
Please do us all a favor and quit your day jobs. We're much safer without the lethal video games, which alienates the locals being bombed. Play Doom III instead.
-TIA
This article only reinforces what I have been thinking about for a while: Why are we in Afghanistan? Who benefits? Who stands to profit?
Why are we sending our youth to risk death fighting to protect and save a country that is ruled by 7th century religious bigotry for a constitution? There is NO FREEDOM of religion or speech, let alone freedom of association or conscience. In Afghanistan it is the death penalty for any Muslim to renounce Islam &/or convert to another faith (one of 7 Muslim countries that have this barbaric law), it is the death penalty for being homosexual (one of 7 countries who do this - all Muslim), women have few rights and the government just passed a new law making it legal for a husband to rape his unwilling wife (who probably didn't want to marry him in the first place, or become only one of a string of wives). The new law makes it mandatory that a woman must have her husband's permission to leave the house or DO anything. She must be accompanied by a male family member whenever she leaves the house. In short she is a slave and a possession. If he divorces her the children will automatically go to the husband or to his father (this is common practice in all Muslim countries), no matter how good a mother she is and how corrupt and vile the father/grandfather may be.
This medieval theo-mocracy is the opposite of everything we supposedly hold sacred in the west. Is it worth even one young life to "save" it or protect it? NO! (Not to mention the horrendous financial cost at a time when the US and the rest of the world - thanks to the Conservative economic policy of the past 30 years; Vulture, Unregulated Free Market Capitalism- economies are on the verge of collapse and the national debt of the US is already astronomic from the hundreds of billions poured into the pockets of the war-profiteers in Iraq - another senseless, deadly war fought for nothing but to enrich the already bloated Robber Barons. When will this stop?
And speaking of backward anti-democratic repressive regimes, Pakistan is another one. They have the same death penatly for being homosexual and prison for anyone who "offends the true religion" - renounces it, converts to another faith, questions Islam or its "Prophet", or a non-Muslim man marrying a Muslim woman etc. We are backing this country? Why? Pakistan was the biggest backer of the hateful Taleban, their bloody rise to power and their brutal, repressive government. Pakistan is another polar opposite of Western values. Who benefits? Who profits? Follow the money.............again. This is so typical of US foreign policy for so long, no matter who is in the White House. Why isn't the "news" media, such as it is, exposing these things and informing and educating the people? That is their job as the 4th estate. They haven't done their job since Vietnam. Is there any hope for real change or must we have a complete collapse of the US government and materialistic economic system for us to be able to begin again? Hope not.
Increased Drone attacks will cause AQ & the Taliban to take their fight to where Drones are Useless. Cities.
The militants will melt into Islamabad and attack the government directly, they may bring it down and this will be traced back to forcing them from the mountains to the cities with the Drones.
The Law Of Unintended Consequences, in this case, will bring Pakistan as we know it down in flames. No government with ties to the West will rise from the ashes.
We are idiots. We could drop food on these people and make friends, or just leave and stop making enemies.
Yeah I'm glad I voted against Armageddon John, a few million lives matter. But this is horrid. However it will be the catalyst the militants need to cause a migration of Terror. And an End to a Western Allied Pakistan.
Bye Zardari, Hello ISI, Meshud, watch your head.
US Blues
memo to Debra sweet: The world can't wait! Drive out the obama regime!
We have known about the drone attacks for some time (81 people killed, maybe more!!) WHY is the U.S. peace "movement" not hollering about this?
Where are people's heads?
Oh! and Obama is really concerned about North Korea's missile TEST and how that poses a threat to the world and he demands that action be taken against them for their hubris in conducting such a threatening test! Wow people!!! Hello!! Is anyone HOME!!! This whole US debacle of government is getting even more surreal and twisted than when the Bush/Cheney evil cabal was in power. Lookpout everyone, the elite fascists are striding forward with their diabolical plans and executing them right before our very eyes, with complete impunity!! Funny, yet tragic, that the criminal elites were able to bring us the greatest actor that has ever sworn the presidential oath, one who completely pulled the proverbial wool over the vast majority of peoples eyes!!
It's Obama's War against the women & kids of South Asia. Attack-ack-ack-ack-ack....!!!
EKATON, if the drones could really recognize terrorists, they would boomerang back onto whoever launched them and gave the orders to launch them!
The US flying weapons of mass destruction are actually sent from the USA and made airborne in Afghanistan, crossing an international border into Pakistan where an operator remotely tracks and murders people even those hiding within buildings. This is a major violation of the Geneva conventions and the UN Charter. Already Obama is making himself a war criminal and harvester of evil.
There is no threat whatsoever to us, if the US were to engage with the population in a proper way and work quickly to fully remove it's pipeline protection forces, there would be peace. We could even have started to reverse the damage Bush had done by befriending the people we have made justifiably hate us.
We don't need oil anymore. With current technology we can make a global massive effort to switch off of this cancerous plague that poisons everything it touches.
There are a relative few benefiting from this Bush and now Obama program of terrorizing people in remote lands but the rest of us and the interests of the US and the greater world are gravely harmed.
We are not there to fight terrorism or anything else, to suggest so is an absolute lie. THEY are there wasting our brave soldiers and the lives of the local population so THEY alone can steal from the USA and the local region. Remember the vast majority of money stolen by Bush was from the US treasury, not Iraqi oil. These people are criminals working against the US. They are the real terrorists.
Thanks for writing this James, you are hitting all the points. They are not going to stop on their own. It is just horrible and will be the proving ground for the drones on the Mexican border with US. The world is starting to resemble an episode of the Power Rangers. The techies are enjoying it. The war psychologists love it because it eliminates the emotional distress of the responsibility of killing people and animals and other stuff.
michael jordan
http://sites.google.com/site/apolloguide/
Yes the strange thing is even people like Hillary Clinton who I've admired overall are stooping to the level of saying that George Bush's crimes were good ideas -- we must apply this horrendous crimes against humanity on the Mexicans now.
Well, I don't think the Mexicans will put up with it. It will be a big mistake aside from a great human tragedy.
Very strange what is going on right before our eyes.
James: A definite Dr. Strangelove moment, "How I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb."
Hillary was raised Republican and was a college Republican and supported Republican candidates. You must of course remember that she stated clearly that she would support John McCain before Obama? How could anyone like that receive your admiration?
She conducted a dirty campaign against her rivals in 2008 and deserved to lose. I can't support her or Dianne Feinstein because I see them as Blue Dogs who if they lived in the Old South would switch Republicans. As it is, they voted with Zionist Republicans and are hawks of the Sam Nunn variety. All being merely gutless hacks looking for that next Israeli chunk of cash stolen from stupid US taxpayers who will never open their eyes to the Israeli's stranglehold on world peace...
michael jordan
http://sites.google.com/site/apolloguide/
The irony and arrogance are exquisite, as the Obama government scolds the North Koreans having "broken the rules", as Obama Predators wreak havoc, mayhem and murder on tribal people.
He should be ashamed.
Sioux Rose
Plausibly a lot of people around the world were willing to put aside their justifable anger at the U.S. when Mr. Obama stepped in. He roused hope not only in our own nation, but around the world. After 8 DIABOLICAL years, persons everywhere hoped for--and expected--something else, something or rather someone who evidenced a conscience. Possibly many of the U.S. sins might have been forgiven had its new administration shown an interest in doing remedial work, leading the world with new (non-fossil fuel) energy technologies, and TRULY helping to rebuild Iraq and broker peace deals in the Middle East. Adding insult to injury, not only did Bush up the ante on America's pattern of imperialism and empire-building only to expose its ostensible moral bankruptcy (clear for all to see), now a fiscal parallel is equally underway to the chagrin of billions. Those who were prepared to suspend judgment and give the US a new chance, now have reason to go back to plotting whatever revenge or ways and means to curb the beast's ventures they might have been working on during Bush's reign of terror.
Once again we are blowing away all the good will and forgiveness from the rest of the world.
Joe
Hi, Sioux Rose, on your suspending judgment point ....
Obama's global goodwill will run out faster abroad because they read accounts like this one (from a U.K. paper). However, the perspective in this story - that there's something wrong with murdering people in this way - is generally missing in the U.S. corporate-owned media.
Obama made a lot of campaign trail boasts about finishing the job in Afghanistan and even "killing" Osama bin Laden. I recall hearing the crowd of Democratic supporters cheer when he described these plans. That means trouble for those of us who want no part in this senseless murder.
It looks like Obama has embraced Bush's global war on terrorism, which is self-perpetuating money machine for the military. It has no end and creates more "terrorists." I think the problem is that Obama has too much goodwill here in the United States and the U.S. press loves wars - a lethal combination.
-TIA
How can you beat al-Qaida if by killing one, you produce two?
Easy! You just TRIPLE the drone attacks!
That way, you stay one step AHEAD of the Enemy!
(I'm trying out "William" thinking-- how'm I doing?)
· Yr Obd't Servant
Let's see, that's 1.2 billion Muslims, or 23% of the population, and each drone kills an average of five muslims...hey, maybe I should buy some stock in General Atomics.
O Servant, Kristol Clear.
The way to stop the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan is to make Congress cut the funding for them. I have pointed this out before, but you folks don't seem to be interested. Do you prefer philosophical discussion to action?
UFPJ has predicted that the next supplemental will come up on Thursday. I suggest you start communicating with your senators and reps.
A nice point, lporter. Will do. However, we all know that the wars will be funded - the people be damned.
-TIA
First of all, I'm a pacifist.
This is a slightly suspicious headline. First, the internally displaced refugee head count probably includes a good percentage of people running from the Taliban, who have been eliminating their political opponents wholesale. Second, the head count probably includes people fleeing the Pakistani army, who in this story have flattened villages.
The headline but not the story implies that the Americans are indiscriminately firing Hellfire missiles at anything that moves. For now, I'd rather see some corroborating evidence of such a war crime taking place in Pakistan. Carpet bombing, Agent Orange and leaf mining were certainly true in Vietnam.
We must remember that the U.S. drone base is in Pakistan. There's some kind of agreement with the current Pakistani government that the U.S. can turn these "rebellious" provinces into a fire zone.
I recall reading that the Pakistan government has protested the U.S. drone bombings. These machines do kill people, such as women and children, as the story says. I'm not sure where you see shades of gray here. If you're a pacifist, then you'd oppose having the drone base in Pakistan, or anywhere else.
-TIA
All this evil can be traced back to one source: Lack of a truly independent free press. If it's not reported on T.V. in the largely illiterate USSA, then for all intensive purposes it never even happened.
Bush O.K-ing the flattening of Lebanon never happened.
The attack on Syria by US supplied arms never happened.
Concentration Camps in Gaza never happened.
Torture in unknown rendition camps never happened.
The Great Bush-Graham bank robbery never happened.
Monsanto pesticide-leaching bacterial-dna in food crops never happened.
Jeez, I could go on all day; when there's no coverage, there is no potential political consequence.
You can't really blame the couch-potato comrades for all the misdeeds of THE PARTY if you don't get them the real news.
And that would be the One-Party commie "Repulicrat Party" I am referring to.
Help.
I'm not really sure just what happened to me. I went to sleep for a little while and when I woke up: the "X-FILES" was real, and man-eating aliens were occupying my government at all levels.
Somebody please "Bitch Slap" me so I can wake up from this nightmare.
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
PaulK: "The headline but not the story implies that the Americans are indiscriminately firing Hellfire missiles at anything that moves."
How do you read that "implication" in the headline which says simply that Pakistanis are fleeing the drone bombing. You don't have to have "anything that moves" firing to frighten you enough to leave your home; which was apparently the result of frequent drone attacks.
For a "pacifist" you show some fine gradation of moral sensitivity about the acceptable range of aggressive acts: for example, your own "implication" that's it's OK for the U.S. to bomb the Pakistani people if it's done with the (alleged) acquiescence of the Pakistani government. Or that maybe we oughtn't to get overly excited about the refugees when many are (again allegedly) fleeing from the Pakistani government that is levelling their villages.
I am surprised that the Pakastani's cannot blow those drones down with their superior air power. All it would take is a heat seeking missle. America is behaving like a world thug at present. Afghanistan alone could whip America's ass to a pulp just like they did with Russia. It will be the end of America thank God when it happens to us! Now they are buzzing up Pakistan that has a superior air force and military just itching to engage the USA and combine those two countries spells the death of America and may it die a bloody death with attacks on America soil!
Pakistan gets military aid from the United States. They protest the drone attacks, but to a certain degree, they cooperate.
-TIA
The US, regardless of who is President at any time, is just plain unfit to lead the world! The main diversions seem to be Wall Street and the latest killing machines. How about some ethics, how about some morals, how about some decent human behaviour???
This article, and nearly every comment so far, puts to the lie the assertion of Robert Parry in another CD post today that Obama's war strategy is so much better than that of Bush because he adopts the "narrower strategy" of defeating al Qaeda. How "narrow" can your strategy be when, in the interest of supposedly defeating al Qaeda, it causes a MILLION people in Pakistan to flee their homes to avoid the drone attacks? I sincerely believe that Mr. Parry should read this article and the accompanying comments and then retract his assertion about Obama's as a "narrow" strategy...or else he should visit those refugee camps in Pakistan to explain to them how they are simply victims of a "narrow" military strategy, and then write another article about the matter.
Mr. Rose:
Since you are obviously determined to compare George W. Bush's Afganistan policy to that of President Obama, I would like to ask you one question......WHY ARE WE STILL INVOLVED "AT ALL" IN THIS MESS IN AFGANISTAN/PAKISTAN? If George W. Bush had allowed our military to finish the job in Afganistan after 9-11, we would not be there today. But no......Mr. Bush, ESQ, TEXAS Longhorn, a little Texas redneck also.....had to leave and go to Iraq to invade a country that was no threat to the United States and could have been proven to be no threat with about another month of work by the UN. Why aren't you as concerned with talking about all the innocent Iraqis and American soldiers and other Americans who have been killed in this totally unnecessary war WHICH HAS ADDED A DOUBLE BURDEN ON THIS COUNTRY DUE TO THE LACK OF OVERSIGHT AND CONTROL BY THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION OF OUR FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS. It really does no good to argue who started the problem. It can be arugued that looking at something for eight (8) straight years, and doing nothing about it (oversight of US financial institutions and corporations), that Mr. Bush is largely responsible for the entire mess this country faces today. Now you want to argue about the drone attacks in Pakistan, knowing full well where they are scheduled and why.......and now you can perhaps give us the Jerry D. Rose version of how you would suggest that the US and NATO handle the situation better? The drone attacks are to wipe out al Qaeda in their hiding places and where they have concentrated their followers. But if you know another way to conquer al Qaeda, then you should stand up and say so now. Don't take the "cop-out route" and argue about how President Obama's war plan doesn't differ that much from George W. Bush. Speak up.....give us the facts Jack!
William, it's really not clear who's getting attacked. How do you determine that that guy in the camera targeted by the Predator drone is al Qaeda, a member of the Taliban or a Pashtun farmer?
Try to remember similar failures, like the U.S. Phoenix program in Vietnam that murdered thousands of locals, calling them Vietcong.
The al Qaeda organization is a foreign transplant in Afghanistan, arising from Saudi Arabia and its fundamentalist Wahhabi religion that sees the United States as the Great Satan. It's an idea, and you can't kill ideas.
Al Qaeda is a small organization that only grows as families die by attrition. It requires coordinated police action, not military attacks, to lessen the problem. And by the way, Al Qaeda can't attack the United States from Afghanistan.
-TIA
William, it's a little hard to keep my cool when your "give us the facts" demand is framed by your two self-contradictory statements that "it does no good to argue who started the problem" (with which I agree) and that "Mr. Bush is largely reponsible for the entire mess this country faces today (with which I mostly agree). But I'll give it a try.
The "facts," as I understand them, are that in Afganistan, Pakistan and lraq we are engaged today (if not when the "mess" started) by people who are primarily engaged in resisting a U.S./NATO occupation of their country, and their "terrorist" acts---against collaborators among their own people as well as those foreigners---are designed to force the occupiers to leave their countries. The "fact" of opinion polling in Afghanistan and Iraq strongly supports that interpretation. Al Queda clearly exploits this situation for their purposes, but they could not exploit it unless they represented the broad and totally appropriate feelings of the mass of people in their countries. So what would I do to "handle" al Qaeda and the Taliban? Basically, withdraw those US and NATO forces as rapidly as possible, and not by instituting its place an "air war" that would certainly save U.S. and NATO lives but would only lead to renewed resistance to American presence in every one of the hundreds of U.S. military bases around the world, and keep alive an agenda of retaliation against the American homeland itself. Or am I being too simplistic? Are drone attacks that make refugees of a million people in Pakistan, a supposed ally in our "war on terror," the really most effective way to handle these terrorist organizations that are an effect rather than a cause of international conflict?
Sanity, where for art thou?
Not in American Foreign Policy, aka Killing. I'm glad BO separated bomb Iran/AfPak/Iraq/Somalia/Russia? InSaneMcain from the Presidency.
But Apocolypse averted, BO's AfPak killing is Murderous. He is doing some good-arms reduction, 80-100 bill for ed, infrastructure & green projects, But AfPak is Vietnam Redux.
I don't know how to change things. If any of us did, would they not be different? Non? This infers to me that frustrations aside, we are all laughably less powerful than The Machine.
So is Obama. The NeoCONs, their "pov" in DC & the US nearly controls the spin of MSM coverage of foreign affairs. Was that intel guy named Freedman? McCain is advocating carpet bombing the Muslim World to dust w/ the FPI & Kristol now.
Obama doing some things right has nothing to do w/ killing people & War.
Karzai can't leave his bedroom without getting shot at, we leave, the Taliban owns it, Right On.
US Blues
I think what Obama is counting on is that as long as American casualties are kept low, and fewer and fewer body bags of soldiers of the United States of America come home draped in the stars and stripes, the citizens of the United States of America will begin to support the wars in Afghanistan and now Pakistan.
Barack Obama does not think that citizens of the United States of America are really all that concerned about the numbers of Pakistani children killed by these drones.
Unless the citizens of the USA and of the world for that matter , begin to show their outrage (just as begins to happen in the Gaza strip where more and more people have begun to understand the vile nature of the israeli Governmnet) , Barack Obama will escalate such actions.
If outrage does not stop him after killing 100 or 200 or 300 children or women or innocent civilians, we then must consider the possibility that NO amount of such deaths will be enough to create that outrage.
IF that the case then strategists in Obama's administration WILL PUSH for escalation which could well lead to the USA once more using Nuclear Weapons on civilians.
This is not off the wall. Members of the Bush Administration including Dick Cheney advocated such against Iran and the United States of America has a history of peoples advocating the use of such weapons against Civilians since they were first created.
Do not count on "the Good Conscience" of barack Obama to head off such an escalation. It becomes apparent he does not have one and has little regard for the lives of the innoccent as he too considers their loss as "collateral damage" and "In the best interests of the United States of America".
All that can be counted on is the conscience of the people.
GwNorth. Hi, You posit BO hopes that diminishing US casualties, "fewer & fewer" might win US citizenry over to the War. Sadly, even if AfPak deaths multiplied exponentally, I feel you are right.
But Gw, Barack is very down on Nuclear Weapons, that is his track record, when you assert he is likely to Nuke Civilians......I humbly submit that his egregious War is bad enough,
But the Nuclear Threat you link to the GOP is why I am glad Obama separated that insane McCain from a four front war and Armageddon. That is why I voted for Obama and would again.
But the Drone attacks are horrid, Mass Murder, and I agree, only manifest outrage a la Gaza might stop them. ps, nice post.
US Blues
GWNorth......War is never good. President Obama inherited this mess, along with all the others from the previous administration. Any deaths involving innocents of any sex are horrible. The enemy is known. The enemy has been known for a very long time. Unfortunately, they have scattered themselves throughout a desolate, difficult terrian. Would you suggest that we ignore the enemy who is now giving out new threats about harm to the United States as well as Europe? You propose that we just sit back and let it happen? Do you think these people are going to just one day say, we have had enough, we will stop seeing the United States as a #1 enemy? Now, if you are going to argue about every death which is occurring as we try, with our limited resources, to increase the diplomatic efforts from NATO and the United States, why don't you discuss a death-proof method to end this conflict? No one, including President Obama, enjoys the present situation or any innocent life that may be lost. But to stand down and do nothing will only result in far worse and long-lasting consequences to the US and the rest of the world.
Any jerk can issue a threat and claim to be "al Queda or Quida or whatever it really is.
Of course the War Machine's media will publish the threat widely before verifying the source because it justifies their budget and killings of people, women and children included when there is no proof that they are any threat at all.
I don't know if there is any "non death" solution to an ongoing war because people will always die.
Obama should offer to negotiate Peace with the "Enemy". You can always resort to war, but if you try peace and fail, the war will even have more support.
That at least will give him some better Intel. "Know your enemy" means just that.
Obama doesn't even know if Osama is alive!
Your response is full of logical fallacies including those of false choices and straw man arguements.
Pray tell me where were all these terrorist attacks you speak of in 1910? Where were they in 1968?
There were Muslims in all those countries then. There were fundamentalists in all those countries then. Why were they not attacking Europe and the USA?
Al Qaeda is a made up enemy created by the very policies you now advocate as necessary.
Terrorism can not be defeated by bombing people. It should be obvious to any person that when you use VIOLENCE against a peoples, they will respond in kind.
Your empathy for the death of innoccents rings hollow. If you truly had empathy for them you could not support bombing them.
If GWNorth had real empathy for the situation, then he/she/it would know that death is not a chosen first choice. Do you propose to just sit back and let all of NYC be blow to hell? WHY DON'T YOU GIVE A SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM SINCE YOU SEEM TO BE SO COMPETENT AT CRITICIZING THE PRESENT POLICY. SPEAK UP......WE ARE WAITING TO HEAR FROM YOU.
>>Do you propose to just sit back and let all of NYC be blow to hell
You watch a bit too much Glen beck. New York City has not been and is not blown to hell.
Afghanistan and pakistan are. The Country blowing other places to hell is the United States of America.
Implicit in that statement of fact is the answer to your question.
I suggest if the United States stopped blowing other people to hell, assassinating their leaders, supporting coups in their countries, propping up dictators in the same , there would be no reson the peoples would want to strike back.
You solution is more of the same. Keep killing for peace.
I do not see terrorists attacking Sweden or Finland. It seems there a direct correlation .
Sioux Rose
GW NORTH: Bravo! And so right about the "false choices." These Republican clones all sound alike as evidently they ingest as pabulum the same talking points. It's always about protecting America, it's always about some alleged enemy; but never ANY critical acumen directed at the self, which in this case refers to the nation's identity, focus, and chosen policies. I wonder if you got through at all? The defenses those types of persons wear are often the result of a lifetime of conditioning. Their frame of reference tends to be so reinforced by the groups with which they identify as to make them feel they are infallible in their "reasoning," and "right." Your insights are laser sharp, perhaps you pierced the defensive armor his psyche was wearing.
These are war crimes as well. The perpetrators of war crimes will not investigate other war criminals.
"My" country has long been little more than a death machine, so there is no "moral authority" to "reclaim".
...and the one behind these 'Wedding Party' assassins is asking the UN Security Council to Punish
North Korea for trying to launch a comsat that hurts no one? It's enough to make Kim Jong Ill. Me too.
Humbaba.....you absolutely make me sick. You know the truth about this mess and yet you are determined to ignore it. You blame President Obama for his efforts to bring about a resolution to the problem with concentration on al Qaeda as opposed to no solution from George W. Bush OR FROM YOU!!! IF ANYONE IS REALLY CONCERNED AND REALLY IS A "REAL AMERICAN", THEN YOU WILL EXPRESS THE WHOLE STORY AND STOP THE CRITICISM AND COMPLAINING AND DISGUST THAT YOU POST WITH SUCH ANGER. The truth is absolute. It will not change. Perhaps you can just go over and wave a white flag and everyone will go back home and forget anything ever happened. Such fantasy is absurd and ludicrous. NO REAL AMERICAN WOULD SPEAK AS YOU SPEAK!
WILLIAM!1!11!! I'M A real AmeRiCaN, borN and rAised in TeXAs. (or are they only "real americans" that agree w/their gov't?)
and i'm w/Humbaba.
what is this "truth" that you know? Obama is "concentrating" on Al Quaeda? by slaughtering families indiscriminately? by creating hundreds of thousands of refugees (which, btw, creates MORE "TERRORISTS", as everybody w/a firing brain cell knows, and the more enlightened among us know that it is US policy to *create as many terrorists as possible*, to justify the M.I.C)?
please explain to me the moral calculus, the "AbSOluTe tRutH" you speak about, by which US bombs killing families are superior to Taliban suicide bombers.
the simple TrUtH is that the US gov't is no better than the Taliban. In fact, we are worse, on a par with the Nazis, Stalin, and Pol Pot.
AAAh Texas, that explains much. Deprived of a decent education how can you help it! Humor alert.
um, yeah...to quote melville, a whaling ship was my harvard yard.
Humor alert: here comes red p-rick's ignorance.
Ahh so you expose yourself.Funny that you believe calling someone a prick justifies acting like one. Grow the hell up jackass.
Bravo America!
You continue to amaze and dazzle the world with your awesome firepower, financed by your staggering public debt, funded by Communist China. Keep up the good work. There are so many out there that hate your freedoms, freedom to kill and maim, freedom to attack whomever you set in the cross-hairs of your sights. Keep on killing until you run out of weapons or money, it is good for your economy that now largely consists of arms production and exports. Your banks are just as bankrupt as is your moral position in the world.
Don't ever stop and ask how this mess came about, about your funding of the very forces you are now fighting. Don't ever stop to see what good you could do in the world with your money and former wealth. Don't ever do the soul searching to find out why they really hate you. And here is a clue: It has nothing to do with your former "freedoms." That is all gone now and by the way, did you notice that the current administration has not repealed any of the constitutional gutting changes made by the former administration.
Stop and think and start to listen to those well meaning souls that voted the new change regime in. Stop and listen before it is too late for all of you.
Bush and Obama are just a rerun of "Good cop, bad cop"
The problem is , which is the good cop or the bad?
Could both be bad cop.
letsseenow......we will let you figure that one out. Since you proposed such a foolish statement, then one knows you stand with George W. Bush and his policies for Afganistan. When you have finally decided, let us all know here?????
William, if you're so gung-ho and see some big difference between Obama's and Bush's war policies in Afghanistan, then maybe you need to enlist.
If you can think of some reasons why you shouldn't enlist, then maybe it's just another senseless unnecessary war - this time under Obama. After all, if the United States really were under attack from al Qaeda hiding out in the caves of Afghanistan, then we'd all share your fervor.
If you read this article, it's not al Qaeda that's getting killed by the drones. So why are you cheering on Obama's war plans?
-TIA
It's America's version of the doodlebug, or V1, which dropped out of the sky over Britain towards the end of the war. Over 6000 Londoners were killed and my mother said they were more frightening than the blitz.
But it is reassuring to know that the American version can differentiate between civilians and militants: they are obviously far cleverer than the interrogators at Guantanamo Bay.
Were here to HELP!
These drones can recognize "terrorists"?
And first we are supposed to believe that.
And second we are to accept the "collateral damage".
This is nothing more nothing less than terrorism by the state.
Why do they hate us?
This is the new video game generation and why the U.S. will never give up its imperial push for control. All that is needed is a small base to arm, fuel and launch these newest weapons of civilian destruction and then a computer game freak somewhere in the united states or other obliging country uses his/her joy stick to cruise around until there are some people in the sights and fires, the hell with if it is women and children old and crippled, they are dead now. No remorse or guilt because it is just like those 'educational' games the grew up learning to play. So no problems with say a B52 crew member beginning to think 'just who am I killing and why'?
Change you can believe in. Belief you can change in. Can you change in belief? That is the question.
Killer drones, US drones. Isn't that the name of our 'elected representatives' in Congress and the White House?
Yes it is. They just drone on and on while all they do is make sure that the Bush's clusterf**k continues. No change. No hope. Lots of blood on the new guy's hands already.
Thousands Flee
US Drone Attack
Former president George Wanker Bush, dressed in desert combat fatigues and armed with half a dozen semi-automatic assault rifles and hundreds of rounds of ammunition, opened fire on a group of Latino day laborers who gather each day in front of a Dallas Starbucks looking for work. Yelling "Death to ragheads!", the former chief executive of the United States, now a resident of the upscale Preston Hollow neighborhood, killed an undisclosed number of men, then barricaded himself inside the Starbucks holding at least a dozen hostages and repeatedly yelling "Top o' the world, Ma!". Panic stricken bystanders fled the area before a Dallas PD SWAT team arrived. Laura Bush, the former president's wife, told Dallas Police that her husband had become morose and depressed the last few months due to heavy drinking caused by his inability to finish one page of his projected book about the dozen most important decisions of his presidency. Rejecting the assistance of a "ghost writer", Mr. Bush had been laboring alone, ten to fourteen hours a day, on the book whose working title is "My Pet Goat II". Aside from the working title and the opening line "Once upon a time", nothing else had been accomplished. "I guess he just snapped", Mrs. Bush told police investigators. Former vice president Cheesedick Cheney was requested to come to Dallas and speak with Mr. Bush but told police, "Let him go fuck himself!" Mrs. Bush has now requested Fox News commentator Glenn Beck to fly to Dallas to negotiate with Mr. Bush and end the standoff.
Neat and imaginative...Speaking of imaginative I think that we should all keep in mind that imagination in reporting is a quality(?) not reserved to one side or the other. Perhaps many do not wish to consider that this article reeks of propaganda and is quite probably a great exaggeration.
I do not seek to diminish the case for ending all military operations in this region and elsewhere only to bring a bit of sanity to the subject.
huh? what in god's name are you blathering about?
yeah, the u.n. is prone to lying about the number of refugees. uh huh, sure. the world is so prone to helping refugees that of course pakistan would falsify that info in order to get some of those billions floating around for refugees. refugees are today's welfare queens.
almost 600,000 *registered* refugees. if that's an exaggeration, what is an acceptable number?
of course it's difficult to determine numbers in a war zone in the middle of some of the most remote and rugged places on earth. but based on historical experience, who is prone to lie about refugees and body counts, the UN or the US gov't?
and btw, there are usually more than *two* sides to a subject. hopefully the two sides of your brain can handle that concept.
clearly your comment really pissed me off.
You can get pissed off or pissed on. My comment was further explained above. I am not here to pander to anyone, only to express MY opinion.
Well, I guess in Red Rick's mind, all opinions are created equal. So, for him, if one 'opinion' causes the death of a thousand innocents and another saves the lives of a thousand innocents, they are equal in merit.
Opinions being opinions, and such. I think that is what he means..
Try harder.With less sarcasm as well. Or not, depending upon your character.
odoco
Care to elaborate on your thesis about this article Red Rick? Identify what you think if propagandistic?
Certainly, if I can get past that buzzing little fly with nothing but an annoying sound to offer...
You are, I am certain, familiar with the old adage that the first casualty of war is the truth, are you not? Thus, when war is involved why suspend your questioning of "fact" and instead apply the same criteria you would to statement by Cheney or countless other politically motivated folks?
Do you know the number of such attacks by Reaper or Predator drones? I do not. I do not know whether there are a million folks fleeing drone aircraft, but I do know that it sounds a bit hard to swallow. I do not know if there are villages decimated by these craft, and neither do you. I do know that we shouldnt be there, can accomplish nothing of value by continuing to apply military measures to a problem that needs a far differing approach.
Further I know that it is the truth that will be most effective in this struggle to end militarism, not a willingness to believe anything at all that places our opponents in a bad light. That will only backfire and make our arguments less weighty.
Red Rick is heavy into EQUALITY. Check out my other comment about Red Rick...
Awesome creative writing!
your friend,
nedlud
odoco
thanks mord - I needed that!
odoco
I recently read where drone attacks that could possibly kill as many as 30 civilians or less while allegedly targeting a 'high value' person could be sanctioned without any higher authority than that of a field commander; killing more than 30 civilians requires authority on up the killing chain.
I am sickened by this inhumanity. I am saddened, but not surprised, that Obama continues the slaughter. Let's not forget where most of his campaign money came from - not from the millions of small donors he publicized so brazenly, but rather from the same corporations that have bankrupted this country, declared war on the rest of the world, and are in the final stages of creating an imperialistic plutocracy.
The same money boys maintain their positions; Gates is still at the Defense Dept., the Neocons are finding their way back into mainstream government (they never left the media), revisionist histories are created daily to maintain the blanket of immunity for the criminals, so they can continue to kill and torture with impunity those who resist.
Watch Bill Moyers' show with Mr. Black explaining the financial criminality we are all now experiencing. Read Scahill, Goodman, Greenwald, etc. And then - RAISE HELL.
Yes, let it be clear, Obama is not representing us. Obama was given power by the American people who were horrified by these things, they wanted no more of it. All Obama has done is damage the USA and continue the murder and torture of the Bush administration to say nothing of the vast theft of borrowed US treasury dollars, that continues to go on. Mind you, I believe vastly heightened spending is essential to our transformation and recovery, I just don't think one single borrowed US treasury dollar should be wasted on global banksters and hoodlums in the investment and banking institutions who participated in the Bush-Gramm ponzi scheme, credit default swaps and the no limit assets to loans ratios. We aren't in a recession we are all victims of a massive ponzi scheme fraud brought on since Phil Gramm turned banks into criminal syndicates.
We need to flood money into the hands of small business to do things like build electric cars in a nationwide martial program designed to get us off oil. A massive worldwide spending to build windmills and solar plants(yes I said plants) with massive grants and support systems. We don't need GM to retool we need to pump the hundreds of billions we are wasting on banksters into the new electric cars. Btw electric sports cars out race anything gasoline. Go on and LEGALIZE industrial hemp so we can produce oil, gasoline(clean burning), plastics, durable fabrics, building materials(entire houses and buildings can be made of hemp) and paper products(our Constitution was written on hemp paper.)
Just an aside but: the PRIMARY reason pot was illegalized was the competition hemp produced with major industry, such as forestry, that bribed politicians. We really do need to end ALL money in politics.
We, the good people of the USA, love the people of Afghanistan and Pakistan(freedom fighters included) and are profoundly saddened by their loss. What Obama has done, he has not done as our representative, as a president, but as a criminal who has deceived us gravely or fallen for deceptions himself.
Obama was given power by the people but he turned over actual control to the Bush trolls, such as Robert Gates and did their bidding and trusted their words.
We should end all support of Obama until he removes every last Bush administration person from power, from US attorneys to Robert Gates and actualizes his promises, post haste.
With Bush I avoided calling him president, I felt evidence showed he had lost both elections and was a de facto criminal hijacker of our Democracy. I never thought, not even for a moment, that he would be so much of the same. I never thought, that not only would he not prosecute the Bush administration for it's horrendous crimes against the USA and other countries, but he would continue the very same crimes with even more energy.
What a shock this has been.
Alas, Obama must finally take full executive control of the US government and commence the massive, urgent and radical change we need to revitalize and save our country. Obama has only been at the helm less than a few months but he needs to turn power back over to himself and stop falling for the deception machine of Dick Cheney and his cohorts.
We do need publicly funded elections. There is some bipartisan poser effort to make another optional public funding, but we know how well that worked out with Obama's election. (I'm not shocked because I couldn't understand why the left gave him a pass on that.) We need a system where everyone plays with the same resources. Speech is free, but buying representation is a crime. our representatives need to be free to a) focus on the issues and not be busy selling themselves out and b) free to legislate in the best interests of the country and not K Street.
Yes, I agree, taking any money or benefits of any kind, through your person, greater organization or even supportive organizations should be a capitol offense. That was one big flaw of the Constitution that should be corrected by amendment. The entire country would vote for it in a heartbeat. It should be a major felony to be involved in any form of giving or receiving money in politics. That would largely end the criminal hijacking of our government and be a very good thing for our world.
Some simplified public funding for the express purpose of finding out the beliefs and positions of the politician should be constructed.
But also we should make an amendment to our Constitution that criminalizes ownership of "the press" by entities who have a contrary interest to presenting the truth. A truly free press requires something like that or an absolute draconian anti mass ownership amendment so we have as many voices in each and every community and no big "Viacoms" who have warped if not destroyed the truth by their presence in "the press".
I am a very appropriately regulated free market kind of guy. I do see a need for a truly successful free market economy to have a strong Democracy which requires the people to be informed fully and accurately and that requires a free wildly unfettered press(unfettered both by government and private "interests" as well a the fascistic combination.) But I think things like medicine should be absolutely fully available to all members of society at the very best in technology levels. Taking that forward just like not only the wealthy should receive police and fire services this should also go for medicine. I also have a big problem with a few companies controlling pharmaceutical research when it is not in their best interest to find a cure but rather keep the super expensive 12 prescription per person regime. With pharmaceuticals we need to have a system of much greater regulation tuned so that we have much more innovation. Mandating sharing of technology with some sort of licensing system that allows for the maximization of participants with divergent self interests thus pushing for actual cures and best outcomes, as an example.
You must change your mind, not rely upon the hope of candidates like Mr. Obama. He snookered you and millions of trusting fools.
What candidates do you put hope in?
Can they unite so that peace has a chance or will it be the same as last year?
Like last year, You can't realistically ask people to vote for several choices and expect any hope of change in our winner take all rock star culture.
But now there is a chance of peace people uniting for a coalition to express political power because Obama will dissapoint.
And if McCain/Palin would have won, a Dem winning the next election would be another given.
At least Obama gives us the chance to go beyond him, but so far I see no talk about peace people uniting for anything, not even peace.
The usual war criminal atrocities by the filthy US empire!
Yes, it's in its death throes. It's just a matter of how many innocent human beings also have to die in the process.
Barack Obama. Cowardly murderers, shills for the military industrial complex come in all colors. What a disappointment, this man. Although, I voted for Ralph Nader. Why don't American voters realize that no candidate will achieve any high office unless they do the dirty bidding of the Pentagon? These duopoly parties are nothing more than corporate lackeys, advancing the profits of GE, Boeing, Northrup Grumman, XE (what a joke! the same day the Iraqi parliament banned XE, formerly Blackwater, from operating in Iraq, the Pentagon awarded them another 20 million dollar contract!) Barack Obama is nothing more than the slickest of the slick, and now even the peace movement has been duped into believing his lies and refraining from taking to the streets! We're screwed, folks! Or, more specifically, the innocents in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Gaza, and Iraq are screwed...
Well,
getting screwed will get us back in the streets.
When the time is right, is when it happens and nobody can stop it.
This is gonna be a long long global revolution.