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Indian Crisis "Tests" Obama
This transition period was supposed to be all about getting a grip on the financial crisis -- and it looked this week as if Barack Obama has succeeded sufficiently to take the Thanksgiving holiday off. But on Wednesday, the president-elect was reminded that he is inheriting messes far beyond Wall Street.
Pigeons fly as the Taj Hotel continues to burn in Mumbai, India, Thursday, Nov. 27, 2008. Teams of heavily armed gunmen stormed luxury hotels, a popular restaurant, hospitals and a crowded train station in coordinated attacks across India's financial capital Wednesday night, killing at least 82 people and taking Westerners hostage, police said. A previously unknown group, apparently Muslim militants, took responsibility for the attacks. (AP Photo/Gautam Singh) The devastating attacks in Mumbai -- which have left more than 100
dead and three times that number seriously wounded -- have put the war
on terror back in competition for Obama's urgent attention. And the
reported focus of the attackers in U.S. and European visitors to India
makes this anything but a foreign affair.
Wednesday's developments do not quite qualify as the "test" famously anticipated during the fall campaign by Joe Biden, the outgoing Senate Foreign Relations Committee chair who will now serve as Obama's loose-lipped vice president. But Obama and his aides are scrambling to refocus after a key American ally suffered a devastating attack that John McLaughlin, the former acting director of the Central Intelligence Agency refers to as "India's 9-11."
Even if we correct for the hyperbole, there is no question that Obama is going to be answering questions about something other than his post-Thanksgiving shopping plans -- an inquiry he took at a press conference before the attacks began in Mumbai.
The official statement from the president-elect's transition team was crisp, professional and parallel to those from the White House of George Bush, the man Obama will replace in less than two months:
President-Elect Obama strongly condemns today's terrorist attacks in Mumbai, and his thoughts and prayers are with the victims, their families, and the people of India. These coordinated attacks on innocent civilians demonstrate the grave and urgent threat of terrorism. The United States must continue to strengthen our partnerships with India and nations around the world to root out and destroy terrorist networks. We stand with the people of India, whose democracy will prove far more resilient than the hateful ideology that led to these attacks.
The real measure will come early next week, when Obama will begin to announce key defense and foreign affairs picks for his Cabinet. If Obama had been developing any doubts about keeping Bush Secretary of Defense Robert Gates on the job, they have almost certainly been eliminated. And there can be no doubt that New York Senator Hillary Clinton's claim on the Secretary of State job is strengthened, as Clinton is well connected and well regarded in southern Asia.
This does not mean that Gates and Clinton -- or the other Washington insiders that will accompany them -- are necessarily the right picks. But the pressure for establishment continuity will be greater now than ever. And prospects that the next president might be talked out of his wrongheaded plans to surge more U.S. troops into Afghanistan -- and perhaps Pakistan -- have surely dimmed.
Indeed, on Wednesday night, the president-elect was on the phone with outgoing Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. And no matter what was actually said, the subtext was unmistakable: Barack Obama just lost a little bit more of the space and flexibility that has traditionally been afforded presidents-elect during their transition periods. For better or worse -- and in this case it is probably worse -- events are forcing Obama into the thick of another Bush administration challenge that will not go away when Bush does.
- Posted in
68 Comments so far
Show AllSorry to be such a skeptic, but consider: possibly a US-engineered false flag operation to encourage Indian citizens to support the "war on terra"? And, to box in Obama, forcing him to support (he hardly needs persuasion apparently) the ongoing escalation of conflict in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Perhaps the plan is to dismember Pakistan by sowing unrest (hence the continued stings of CIA drone attacks on the populace), then as the Pakistani state collapses, first a massive commando raid to secure Pakistani nukes, then the partner India sweeps in over the border to "preserve order".
Pure speculation, but from looking at the historical record of CIA operations, the US government is fully capable of such machinations.
Yes, Bouche, you've got it right.
Now that I've read Obama's official statement about the India attacks (his solution? get those terrorists!), it seems more likely than ever that Bush's GWOT will be never-ending.
And Gates will be affirmed, because he "knows" more than the rest of us, who are not privy to the classified "intelligence".
No, the CIA won't completely want to dismember Pakistan. They want to keep Pak and India at loggerheads with each other just like they do Israel and Palestinians.
Bouche, my sentiments exactly! I wouldn't be too surprised if some of that 700 billion bailout money might not be earmarked for this and future clandestine CIA operations! Pure speculation of course, heh heh heh!
However it happened it's george's problem. Let's not distract Obama from cleaning up at home; God knows it's been neglected for way too long.
ISI????
dc is this you ?!!
This attack definitely has the stamp of Al-Qaeda-ISI-LET all over it (US and other western hostages, attacking the jewish center, etc). The ISI has definitely managed to recruit disgruntled and radicalized Indian muslims into its welcoming arms. The U.S. and Pakistan have created this monster and India's bumbling and stumbling government is incapable of handling this problem.
While we can definitely point fingers at radical Hindu political parties for marginalizing Muslims in India, the active involvement of a succession of hostile Pakistani governments and military dictators who have spawned these terrorists are definitely to blame.
Thanks to this and other terrorist attacks these past 2 years, the BJP (fundamentalist hindu party) will definitely come back to power in the next election and the cycle of violence will continue unabated. Meanwhile the U.S. and its friendly local cleint-state Pakistan will continue this charade called 'war on terror'.
Yup its me.
Hmm I think it is Pakistan's ISI as there was an inflatable boat found in the Mumbia port with origins from Karachi, Pakistan. In Kabul today there was also a terrorist attack outside an embassy so I think this whole thing is being coordinated by the ISI in multiple cities.
Indian Muslims and Hindus and Catholics and other groups all need to come together to support each other as Indians and not allow the actions of a few extremists to divide them as one people. I hope this happens. The BJP is not a peaceful political party it supports too much secterianism. If only Ghandi was still alive. Sigh. I feel so sad for the innocent loss of like in this terrorist attack. I pray for the victims and their families. I condemn this heinous act.
Neither the BJP nor the Congress Party listen to the people. The BJP is a bit too much of a party that supports the extreme wing of the Hindus. The Congress Party is just as bad in supporting the extremists who give Christians and Muslims a bad rap. India needs to be run by atheists, not religious wackos !
Neither the BJP nor the Congress Party listen to the people. The BJP is a bit too much of a party that supports the extreme wing of the Hindus. The Congress Party is just as bad in supporting the extremists who give Christians and Muslims a bad rap. India needs to be run by atheists, not religious wackos !
Eradicate terrorism by being a bigger terrorist??
One man's hateful ideology is another's religion.
Organized religions are immoral enemies and science is the best antidote.
Eradicate poverty and economic oppression, and see if this does not have a significant impact on terrorism. Additionally, stop making war and producing instruments of war that always seem to fall into the 'wrong' hands. We forget that many of the problems we and the rest of the world are experiencing are interrelated, and are often symptoms of a more systemic cause. For example, oppression of the multitudes (now it's mostly economic in nature), has always led to some type of negative outcome (i.e., a violent revolution)in the past. Economic disparity has a LOT to do with it. And if it is not addressed here, the same thing will happen, homeland security or not. Hungry and desperate people do not make for a peaceful society. By impoverishing the multitudes, the greedy rich ultimately destroy themselves. While nature seeks a balance in everything, man thinks he can thrive by defying this principle--how is it working out for him?
Maybe the US and UK can stop supporting the Israeli genocide that is causing this trouble.
Ezeflyer, what disorganized religion has done any good?
Blam & bouche got it right, I think.
Headline on Tuesday:
"PRESIDENTIAL TRANSITION HAS AIR OF COOPERATION
WASHINGTON – America has never seen anything quite like this: The president and president-elect acting like co-presidents, consulting and cooperating on the day's biggest crises.
"It's pretty unusual," said George Edwards, a presidential expert at Texas A&M University, in College Station.
What Princeton University professor Julian Zelizer calls "the split-screen presidency" is the result of several historic forces converging this fall... " [ http://www.sacbee.com/341/story/1425279.html ]
'Historic forces'. Sure. How to maintain transgressions against the efforts, dreams and livelihoods of the citizenry while retaining the most lucrative aspects of outgoing power and control 43 accrued and, of course, rightly absorbed all denigration for.
What scares me the most is that in the imbecilic manner 43 governed--as though he was the animated mask on the host of the Masquerade Ball and no one was supposed to see through all the contrivance but just dance along to the music--we now have a more intellectually powerful naivete with the ability to perceive and focus but not necessarily rise above the seduction, coercion and influence of the grandeur, majesty, pomp and other trappings of ambassadorial protocol and the State. We could talk about old money, but how foolish to miss or ignore old power.
The State has clearly been the in-crowd in all of its manifestations; wielding, owning, testing and wresting power across the planet far too long through obfuscating constitutional freedom and intent thereby reducing the scope of vision and expansion of democratic power in the citizenry. Failure to understand and maintain the rights of our republic, democratically governed, will render us subservient to statist elites in the emerging "order" of things to come far and away from any memory of such luxurious achievements.
"There will be no going back to the era before September 11th, 2001, to false comfort in a dangerous world."
"Our enemies are a radical network of terrorists -- and every government that supports them."
"Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of September the 11th; malicious lies that attempt to shift the blame away from the terrorists, themselves, away from the guilty."
"There is no telling how many wars it will take to secure freedom in the homeland."
So there you have it: freedom has BEEN gone and there's no telling when it will be back. They have never left that premise and genuine freedom has been further eroding since that fateful day.
Well said Blam & preznit bouche. You hit the nail on the head.
A long and copacetic transition will be glorified in the media as a triumphant success of the peacefully civilized in an era of tumultuous terror, reinforced by Mumbai mania. An elite State implementing a new order through ownership and control of intelligence and the economy--formerly accountable to the governed but now too critically corporate and elite to fail--will continue to inflict beatings into citizenry until morale (cooperation) improves.
Huh? Am I mistaking something here? How is a crisis in a foreign nation a problem for a man who hasn't even taken office in our country yet? Of course, he must condemn the acts, yadda yadda. But he has far too much to clean up at home.
Herbalist,
My thoughts exactly. How can this be a test for a man who is not yet President.
Exactly, this is just more Obama-bashing.
He condemned the terrorists! He's not even president, what more can he do?
Hang in there Joe. Obama promised to take care of those rascals in Afghanistan and Pakistan. For this issue and given the devastation in Mumbai against diversity, I don't regret my vote for Obama here.
Hang in there Joe. Obama promised to take care of those rascals in Afghanistan and Pakistan. For this issue and given the devastation in Mumbai against diversity, I don't regret my vote for Obama here.
Thank you herbalist for your post.
Why isn't George being tested?
The guy is has not assumed office is now supposed to be responsible? Maybe President-ELECT Obama should launch an invasion of India or drop phosphorus bombs on the terrist.
Yeah, that will work.
How many children have we needlessly starved to death during this Indian Crisis?
A lot more than 100 I'll bet.
I am sorry for the victims and their families. Obviously someone has an agenda and innocent people must now bear the suffering.
I heard on NPR today that witnesses have said the gunmen "had the faces of foreigners". I made note of that. Pakistanis look very similar to Hindus. Their religions and customs separate them far more than their common ancestors. So if witnesses who were running for their lives could recognize the gunmen looked like foreigners, is it really fair to "assume" these people were Pakistani Muslims?
I don't know about you, but I think there a lot more to this than the MSM's claims of Al Quida or Muslim extremists.
"Pakistanis look very similar to Hindus" wow! Quite a statement. I guess racism is alive and well in the US. They might look similar to you white boy but not to each other.
Have you ever traveled South Asia? I've been to India and Sri Lanka with my boyfriend who is of Sikh origin (my boyfriend's Sikh ancestry hails from Punjab, a region between India and Pakistan). Hindus thought my boyfriend was Hindu. Muslims thought my boyfriend was Muslim. Sinhalese thought my boyfriend was Sinhalese. Most people we spoke to were incredibly surprised to find out he is also half Japanese.
Ya, accuse me of racism, even though you have no idea what you're talking about. I suspect you just don't like the point I was making.
Furthermore, calling me "white boy" shows your ignorance. I'm female and Hispanic - if you had read my name you might have thought twice before you accused me of being white or a boy.
The Sikhs used to be one of the major targets of the evangelical wing of the Christians and even the fanatical wing of Muslims. Sadly, they have been nearly wiped out in Kashmir. Even the peaceful Muslims are virtually imprisoned by their fanatical misleaders in the Muslim community though I hear it's not as bad as Pakistan.
Bill Christison, a former CIA official says the recent Mumbai incident indicates that the Muslim world is retaliating against US polices in the region.
In an exclusive interview with Press TV, Christison a former adviser to the CIA says that targeting UK and US citizen's in the latest attack in Mumbai indicates a frustration that is developing in the Muslim world caused by US polices in the Central Asia and the Middle East in the past eight years.
Christison also said the US president-elect has shown no true desire to change the policies in the Middle East and Central Asia because it seems that the new cabinet is made of old politicians who started these troubles in the region.
The former CIA adviser said that the US partnership with Israel and the occupation of Iraq are all examples of wrong US polices in the region and warned of similar attacks as in Mumbai if US polices continue on the same road.
Excuse me but the CIA is responsible for empowering the Muslim extremists and Bill knows it but supports these same US policies. If the so-called "left" would just shut up and fight to abolish the CIA, we wouldn't be in this mess or for that matter dragging other nations into it.
Carla, I think I have an answer to all these problems. I hope you will agree.
All females above the age of four should be surgically sterilized for at least seven consecutive generations. When that is done, then we start on the men.
You really sound like a MISOGYNIST no doubt. I'd rather that all male Muslims be surgically sterilized since they're the ones doing all the sexual harassments and raping against their own Muslim women as well as against non-Muslim women. Moreover, there are more male Muslims in the terror groups than there are women despite newer female recruits. Besides, when it comes to Muslims ruling at any place at any time in history, rarely is there a female thanks to macho-egotistical male domination along with human rights violation against Muslim women in the community.
"...root out and destroy terrorist networks."
This is one reason why I'm ambivalent about Obama. Notice that there's no talk of eliminating the root causes of terrorism. Instead we get cowboy talk. Round up dem bad guys and varmints. Yeehah!
Shades of Dubbya? He's passing the neo-con test for sure.
"You really sound like a MISOGYNIST no doubt. I'd rather that all male Muslims be surgically sterilized since they're the ones doing all the sexual harassments and raping against their own Muslim women as well as against non-Muslim women. Moreover, there are more male Muslims in the terror groups than there are women despite newer female recruits. Besides, when it comes to Muslims ruling at any place at any time in history, rarely is there a female thanks to macho-egotistical male domination along with human rights violation against Muslim women in the community."
Uh, as opposed to misandry and Islamophobia?
Wow. Identity politics makes my head hurt.
Btw, we don't need to be sterilizing anyone. Talk about misanthropy. Geez.
"we don't need to be sterilizing anyone. Talk about misanthropy. Geez."
Tell that to melonman and tell your Muslim friends to stand up to their terrorist counterparts giving the Muslim community a bad rap or they have no right to complain. No, I don't like carrying out foreign policy the cowboy way but enough is enough with those terrorists. If the civilians in Afghanistan and Pakistan don't want to stand up to their oppressive misleadership such as the Taliban, Al Quaida, and the rest of the militants running the country and dragging other nations into fear and misery, then they're just acting like a bunch of abused spouses allowing terrorism to persist and if they're going to have to face getting wiped out, then too bad. They had plenty of chances to stand up to the wrong doers in their community but they blew it. Use it or lose it buddy.
I've known a good number of Muslims. None of them wanted to blow me up or behead me.
Yes, I've met some too. However, not everyone's lucky. Tell the victims of the suicidal terrorists about your fortune. Have you been to Kashmir, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, UAE, etc ... ? If you're not a Muslim, you're already discriminated against big time. Try living in those nations for a year. At least in America and India, there's not the kind of discrimination. Besides, are any of those so-called "Muslims" of yours standing up to their bad counterparts engaged in terrorist activities ?
Keep spouting this nonsense and reinforcing what a bigoted asswipe you really are.
"Yes, I've met some too. However, not everyone's lucky. Tell the victims of the suicidal terrorists about your fortune. Have you been to Kashmir, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, UAE, etc ... ? If you're not a Muslim, you're already discriminated against big time. Try living in those nations for a year. At least in America and India, there's not the kind of discrimination. Besides, are any of those so-called "Muslims" of yours standing up to their bad counterparts engaged in terrorist activities ?"
You're talking about extremists, radical muslims, not the majority.
No I've never been to those countries. I can't afford to travel the world. I have enough trouble getting to and from work.
I would imagine that most of them are not even in contact with actual terrorists and would rather not be around them. I mean, I don't go crashing white supremacist meetings. I 'aint Batman.
Besides, I would also imagine that moderate muslims don't know where to turn. They don't side with their violent, radical peers, but yet, they also surely aren't going to side with the neo-cons.
LOL !!
I am not sure if you know this, but the UAE is home to millions of expats, tens of thousands of whom are Western expats who live comfortable, tax free lives with few restrictions. I have been to Dubai many times and I can tell you, it is a very tolerant, accomodating place.
Suhail do not fall for the bait. Carla the Cockroach is a hate mongering bigot who would love to kill all Muslims in India and elsewhere because of a few terrorists. There were a few others who attempted the Final Solution in the last century. Clearly she is aiming for her place in history as well !!
Halliburton will have no problem living in UAE but if the average Joe or Jane were to move there, he or she wouldn't be living tax free as you claim. You are correct about religious tolerance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubai
Dubai has large Hindu, Christian, Buddhist, Sikh and other religious communities. Non-Muslim groups can own their own houses of worship, where they can practice their religion freely, by requesting a land grant and permission to build a compound. Groups that do not have their own buildings must use the facilities of other religious organisations or worship in private homes. Non-Muslim religious groups are permitted to openly advertise group functions; however, proselytizing or distributing religious literature is strictly prohibited under penalty of criminal prosecution, imprisonment, and deportation for engaging in behaviour offensive to Islam.
Dubai is one of the few exceptions but then the same could be said of any metropolitan city in an otherwise religious country.
Halliburton will have no problem living in UAE but if the average Joe or Jane were to move there, he or she wouldn't be living tax free as you claim. You are correct about religious tolerance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubai
Dubai has large Hindu, Christian, Buddhist, Sikh and other religious communities. Non-Muslim groups can own their own houses of worship, where they can practice their religion freely, by requesting a land grant and permission to build a compound. Groups that do not have their own buildings must use the facilities of other religious organisations or worship in private homes. Non-Muslim religious groups are permitted to openly advertise group functions; however, proselytizing or distributing religious literature is strictly prohibited under penalty of criminal prosecution, imprisonment, and deportation for engaging in behaviour offensive to Islam.
Dubai is one of the few exceptions but then the same could be said of any metropolitan city in an otherwise religious country.
Isn't it a shame that when something like this happens, our first thought is that it might have been engineered by "our side" to justify actions against Pakistan. And yet that was my immediate thought. Especially when one of the targets was the tiny Jewish population of India. That makes for inflammatory copy and creates an alliance of interest between Israel and India, two very different kinds of "enemies" of Pakistan.
Individuals commit these acts. It is important to identify who they are and not to react by wholesale violence against any population.
Surely, there are plenty of miscellaneous crazies in the world, who go out and kill innocent people for some reason, but recently we lead the pack. Bottom line - our reaction to this situation MUST NOT BE ATTACKS ON PAKISTAN. That will fan the flames of this situation that has the potential to involve 3 nuclear powers: India, Israel and Pakistan.
A crime has been committed. It has to be investigated properly as the crime that it is and the actual perpetrators identified and brought to justice. Avoiding investigation makes me even more suspicious of who was really behind this.
Joe
"Individuals commit these acts."
Sorry but this attack is definitely a product of intense planning and involvement of hundreds of people, obviously backed by a radicalized group with an agenda. You can deny it as much as you want but LET, JEM, ISI and Alqaeda are the prime suspects. The Pakistani govt probably doesnt even know whats going on and are certainly out of the loop because the real power in that country doesnt reside with the Pakistani Government.
OK - if there are hundreds of people and a big money and communications trail, let the Indian police find them with our assistance and other international help. But let the USA not unilaterally punish hundreds or thousands of others who were not directly involved. Let us not use this as a pretext to invade Pakistan.
If we were better citizens of the world, people would flock to help us identify the perps. After 911 I was in Paris and an Egyptian restaurant served us a free meal with the hostess crying about our loss. But we threw away that type of good will and we are not now very well liked.
Joe
I dont think anybody is invading Pakistan anytime soon so you and your relatives can breathe easy. I do think the Pakistani Govt must take action to dismantle the terrorist infrastructure that it has allowed to function unhindered all these years. There needs to be consequences for not doing so and all countries involved must take action to make this happen. The U.N. could have done it if we hadnt killed it !
"I do think the Pakistani Govt must take action to dismantle the terrorist infrastructure that it has allowed to function unhindered all these years."
Oh boy, you don't even realize that the Pak govt is nothing more than a military puppet that crushes its own people. Pigs will fly before the Pak gov't gets its house in order !
"There needs to be consequences for not doing so and all countries involved must take action to make this happen. "
Well, gee ! Something's finally getting into that corn-fed brain of yours. And you were pissed off at me for bringing that idea up. I guess I finally knocked some sense into you !
"The U.N. could have done it if we hadnt killed it !"
The U.N. has been controlled by the same corporate hucksters that control Washington. Besides, it's outdated. Let it collapse so a new one can be built.
I am not of Pakistani origin.
Joe
I just can't believe the amount of hatred being spewed all over the internet against Muslims for the attack in India. It's like everyone watched Fox News and then decided that it was case-closed, Muslims perpetrated the attacks. Has there been an investigation? Has anyone investigated the fact that witnesses reported that the gunmen "had the faces of foreigners" (someone on CD accused me of being a white boy racist for even bringing this up, saying Indians could tell the difference between Indians and Pakistanis, which begs the question: if they're so apt at recognozing the difference, why didn't the witnesses say "faces of Pakistanis" instead of "faces of foreigners"?).
It's like people have already decided Arab Muslims are responsible when the situation isn't even over with, and no investigation has even been started... WTF? "India's 9/11" --- All the more reason to find out what's REALLY going on.
I'm not ruling out false-flag terrorism until a public investigation has been conducted.
Has anyone considered the CIA Blackwater-types, who have unlimited moneys and unlimited unaccountability? I think of Blackwater every time I hear of an attack against innocent people. Chaos is in their agenda, after all.
The CIA is funding LET, ISI, Al Quaida, etc ... Those terrorist groups wouldn't be able to ruin it for the good Muslims otherwise.
"Tell that to melonman and tell your Muslim friends to stand up to their terrorist counterparts giving the Muslim community a bad rap or they have no right to complain."
Again, they probably don't even come into contact with those people, and I am sure that they are as fearful of them as anyone else is.
"No, I don't like carrying out foreign policy the cowboy way but enough is enough with those terrorists. If the civilians in Afghanistan and Pakistan don't want to stand up to their oppressive misleadership such as the Taliban, Al Quaida, and the rest of the militants running the country and dragging other nations into fear and misery, then they're just acting like a bunch of abused spouses allowing terrorism to persist and if they're going to have to face getting wiped out, then too bad. They had plenty of chances to stand up to the wrong doers in their community but they blew it. Use it or lose it buddy."
How has the "cowboy way" quelled terror? In fact, the evidence supports the idea that going all John Wayne on their asses only makes them angrier and stronger. There's a reason Al Qaeda endorsed John McCain.
You also have to look at how US foreign policy has created it all. The US gov't smashed the democracies in the Arab world and installed the despots. The US military industrial complex created this mess with violence. Violence isn't going to change it. Peace and justice will. Yes Islamofascism exists, but WHY? It's not because Islam is evil.
Believe me, terrorists of all stripes make me angry too, not only because of their atrocities but because they really only create more hatred and fear, as evidenced by this thread. However, it doesn't mean that it is ok to succumb to that hatred and fear.