The Parade of ‘Shrill, Unserious Extremists’ on Display at Today’s Impeachment Hearings
Former Reagan DOJ official, constitutional lawyer, and hard-core conservative Bruce Fein was one of the first prominent Americans to call for George Bush’s impeachment in the wake of the illegal NSA spying scandal. Back in late 2005 and 2006, when even safe-seat Democrats like Chuck Schumer were petrified even of uttering the words “broke the law” when speaking of the Bush administration — let alone taking meaningful action to investigate and putting a stop to the lawbreaking — Fein wrote a column in The Washington Times forcefully and eloquently arguing:
Volumes of war powers nonsense have been assembled to defend Mr. Bush’s defiance of the legislative branch and claim of wartime omnipotence so long as terrorism persists, i.e., in perpetuity. Congress should undertake a national inquest into his conduct and claims to determine whether impeachable usurpations are at hand.
In 2006, Russ Feingold called Fein as one of his witnesses in support of Feingold’s resolution to censure President Bush for his lawbreaking. Today, Fein is one of the witnesses who will testify before the House Judiciary Committee in favor of Dennis Kucinich’s impeachment resolutions (joined by Elizabeth Holtzman, Bob Barr and several others). As KagroX details here, that the House is holding hearings on Kucinich’s resolution is not, in any way, an indication that the Congress is prepared to take those resolutions seriously. Manifestly, they are not.
Yesterday, Jane Hamsher spoke with Bruce Fein on BloggingheadsTV about why the Democrats have, in general, failed to hold the Bush administration for their multiple crimes (Slate yesterday detailed some of the many Bush crimes). Here is what Fein — echoing an argument I made a couple of weeks ago — said on that topic:
Jane also asked Fein about Obama adviser Cass Sunstein’s recent statements that Bush officials should not be prosecuted for their illegal detention, interrogation and spying programs. To get a sense for why this matters, National Journal this morning listed Sunstein as one of a small handful of likely Supreme Court appointees in an Obama administration. But — similar to Fein’s point regarding Jay Rockefeller, Jane Harman and comrades — Sunstein has long been one of the most vocal enablers of Bush radicalism and lawlessness, having continuously offered himself up over the last seven years to play the legal version of the TNR role of “even-liberal-Cass-Sunstein-agrees-with-Bush.”
During my Democracy Now debate with him, Sunstein said: “I’d be honored but surprised if the military commissions cite some of my academic articles.” But as Talk Left’s Armando documented, Sunstein would be an ideal and highly likely “legal scholar” for the Bush administration to cite as part of its military tribunals, as Sunstein was an early and outspoken supporter of the theory that Bush had the authority to order military commissions (a theory which the Supreme Court rejected in Hamdan). Identically, while Sunstein now pretends to disagree with Bush’s theory as to why he had the power to spy on Americans in violation of the law (Sunstein said on Democracy Now: “while I agree with Senator Feingold that the President’s position is wrong”), Sunstein defended those theories as “very reasonable” when he was on right-wing talk radio with Hugh Hewitt in late 2005 during the height of the NSA controversy.
It’s really hard to imagine a worse person on whom Obama could be relying as a legal adviser, let alone a potential Supreme Court nominee, and here is what Fein had to say about Sunstein’s view of things:
The destruction of the CIA interrogation videos in 2005 that Fein referenced there seems particularly malicious — plainly criminal — in light of the new documents obtained yesterday from the CIA by the ACLU. One of those documents — an August 4, 2004 CIA memo (.pdf) — explicitly warns “of possible future judicial review of the Program and of these issues,” meaning the CIA’s interrogation methods and the legality of the Bush administration’s behavior. Destroying evidence relevant to a future criminal proceeding is the very definition of obstruction of justice — a crime for which ordinary people are regularly prosecuted and imprisoned — yet we have the Cass Sunsteins of the world, speaking on behalf of our political and media class, insisting that it would be terribly unfair and disruptive to treat any of this as a criminal matter (and — as is true for many of the episodes of Bush lawbreaking — key Congressional Democrats were briefed on the possible destruction of the interrogation videos as well).
Most revealingly of all, the Kucinich impeachment hearing today is like a parade of those whom the Beltway class mocks as Shrill, Unserious losers and Leftist radicals — people who actually use overly excitable words like “crimes” and “prosecutions” when talking about our leaders or who, like the ACLU, actually object that most of what our Government does occurs in total secrecy. Serious, responsible Beltway establishment leaders know that courtrooms and prosecutions are only for the common people and — for our own good — our leaders cannot, must not and should not be exposed to any of that, and must continue to be able to shield what they do from public scrutiny.
* * * * *
NPR this morning has a story, both radio and print, regarding the left/right Strange Bedfellows citizen coalition and Money Bomb campaign targeting those responsible for the erosion of civil liberties, constitutional protections and the rule of law. The NPR story includes this:
Earlier this month, Congress passed a rewrite of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, known as FISA. Opponents say it gives the president too much power to tap private communications without court oversight. That argument was made none too subtly by a TV ad that ran in the home district of Chris Carney, a Pennsylvania Democrat who supported the new FISA law.
“Chris Carney is surrendering to Bush and Cheney the same un-American spying powers they have in Russia and communist China,” the ad says.Apparently, the ad hit a nerve. A Carney spokeswoman called the ad a “smear campaign” and said NPR should not do a story about it. But the ad was paid for by Carney’s fellow Democrats.
Blue America is a political action committee promoted by Democratic bloggers like Jane Hamsher. She is disappointed with Congress since it went Democratic.
“I’m very upset with my party right now,” Hamsher says. “They were given the majority, and they have a 9 percent approval rating right now for a reason.”
Apparently, NPR isn’t Comcast — at least not in this instance — and it thus ran the story despite Carney’s pleas.
Glenn Greenwald was previously a constitutional law and civil rights litigator in New York. He is the author of the New York Times Bestselling book “How Would a Patriot Act?,†a critique of the Bush administration’s use of executive power, released in May 2006. His second book, “A Tragic Legacy“, examines the Bush legacy.
© Salon.com
Keep up the GOOD work D K. Lefty.
All the incumbents, Democrats and Republicans, need to experience the consequences of that 9% approval rating.
It’s time to sweep out the House.
If liberals don’t win the elections at both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue, none of this is going to be anything but fodder for Republicans’ jokes. They LOVE to laugh at liberals fuming off while conservatives get the store (again). They can already laugh at you from their money posts at the country club. Don’t be dumb enough to leave them laughing at you from K Street too.
This is a joke!
Even John Conyers saw the similarity to the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution when he voted to surrender America to Bush and the Neo-Cons.
They will hold meetings and ‘try’ to do something but they sure won’t ‘try’ our elected criminals. I think they are all part of the gang by now.
I’m ready to vote to secede!
“It’s really hard to imagine a worse person on whom Obama could be relying as a legal adviser, let alone a potential Supreme Court nominee”
Yes the kangaroo courts are relying heavely on Sunstein, who sees nothing illegal or criminal in the last eight years of American government.
This is why Obama voters naturally think they can’t let McCain win because of the aweful supreme court choices the Republican would make.
Huh?
Oh, and notice, the phony “substitute impeachment hearings” have now morphed magically into the real thing, except they never will be, until you vote for someone who thinks there might just be something wrong here.
The GOP has always played the game completely outside the box (meaning Constitution) while the Dims have made nice with the American monsters and called the table-scraps progress. The money poured into war for decade on decade is beyond calculation and the money for peace comes begging for pennies. America and Israel—first envisioned as one entity by Pilgrim William Bradford, who learned Hebrew in New England while everybody else made money—are the most needlessly self-terrified nations on the planet. This is called an over-guilty conscience—aggression in advance of retribution they expect from their numerous victims, because only they know all their own evil deeds and intentions…and so they try to lock up the words by calling invasions and colonies defensive actions. Come Obama or McCain (or NADER if only 80% of Americans VOTED), this is going to change because only we are standing fast with feet rooted hard against the post-colonial planet which has caught up with everybody but us….With Nader we will travel forward fastest, and less bloodily; Obama has sold his DNC ass; and McCain—marching boldly backward into the past he wishes on the future. For the first time, I feel clear inside about voting 3rd party come what may. NADER. Because he’s a grown-up, how’s that.
Theater of the worst kind, this will get nowhere.
But it’ll keep the brain dead members of Democratic Underground busy for a few days.
There are so much evidence of Bush’s lawbreaking, problem is, 95% of it was aided and abetted by Democrats. Bush knows he’s safe.
Dem Party apologists (like DD, 1:20) should notice one of the striking contrasts that emerges in this article. The conservative Republican Bruce Fein is a principled voice for defending the Constitution; while the “liberal” Democrat Cass Sunstein (an Obama advisor & likely Supreme Court nominee in an Obama administration) doesn’t give a hoot about defending the Constitution, and indeed, concocts arguments to defend Bush & Cheney against impeachment.
That issue aside, the hearings themselves are a cruel & cynical stunt — an insult to the public’s intelligence. The whole idea is to throw a miserable crumb to those who are aware that we’re governed by vicious sociopathic criminals. But at the same time, the utmost care is being taken to insure that the process won’t go anywhere. The idea is pure public relations & “image management” — to suggest to the public that Republicans are “bad;” to falsely portray the Democrats as “doing something about it;” yet to do this in a way guaranteed not to “rock the boat.”
The only reason Pelosi has let these “hearings” take place is because she’s calculated that on balance, it will probably help the Democrats’s image. It’s exactly like her phony posturing in the spring of 2007 as an “opponent” of the war, where she had the Dems insist for a while on a “time-table for withdrawal” from Iraq — before caving in and giving Bush 100% of what he asked for on the refunding, no strings attached.
Right on tetti tatti . . . .
Until we change our voting habits life will be business as usual in Washington DC. And I mean corporate business of course.
As long as we only have a Republican or Democrat to choose from we will have the same status quo.
That is a fact. Obama and McCain fit the mold of more of the same.
That’s because DEM Party apologists (like DD, 1:20) know what’s going to result in policy gains—while others (like RichM) don’t.
everywhere you look - fascism is on the rise
and the imperial empire rots - descending into a carnage of murder and hate
owwww!
A well-functioning democracy has a culture of free speech, not simply legal protection of free speech. It encourages independence of mind. It imparts a willingness to challenge prevailing opinion through both words and deeds. Equally important, it encourages a certain set of attitudes in listeners, one that gives a respectful hearing to those who do not embrace the conventional wisdom. In a culture of free speech, the attitude of listeners is no less important than that of speakers.”
Cass Sunstein
For a more comprehensive list of impeachable offenses (updated every day), look here:
http://www.thousandreasons.org/reasons/reasons.php
DD:
“policy gains” — is that like “yardage” in football? Like when you keep running the same play over and over and over and the “other team” consistently scores, but as long as you manage to get 2 yards every drive, you’ll end up with 8 yards of “gains” each time you get the ball? You’ll also end up with a paycheck for your efforts, since we’re talking about the “professional” teams. Actually, the only sports team I know of that’s THAT predictable is a basketball team named the Washington Generals… You know, the guys that lose to the Harlem Globetrotters every night?
Having seen the Democrats in action these many months (years actually, but I’m talking about many months in CONTROL) I think it’s EXACTLY like that.
I’m beginning to think that Oliver Cromwell had it right when on April 20, 1653, supported by about forty musketeers, he cleared the Parliamentary Chamber and dissolved the Parliament by force supposedly saying: “You are no Parliament, I say you are no Parliament; I will put an end to your sitting”.
With Congress “enjoying” a 9% approval rating, it is time to remind Congress that real democracies enjoy MAJORITY approval.
The established operatives from the Corporate Party with two heads will do nothing to protect the U.S. Constitution. Progressives and anti-war folk are feeling a bit empowered with a sense that they forced these hearings, “finally”. What we really have here is a Nancy Pelosi manipulation, an attempt at giving the clamoring masses the illusion that something is being done about the crimes of this administration.
Policy gains? Do Dem Part Apologists like DD ever say anything that’s not utterly insane?
What policy gains? Bill Clinton:
-gave us NAFTA
-deregulated the Banking & Lending Industry precipitating the current Mortgage and Credit Crisis.
-by omission, helped the Big Boxes stomp out Mom & Pop businesses
-by omission helped stomp out Family Farms and funnel Tax Dollars to the Corporate Farms
-deregulated the Corporate Accounting Industry bringing us Enron and Co.
-continued the Republican agenda of privatizing Government reponsibilities and removing them from Public inspection and accountability,. Prisons especially.
-reduced oversight and accountability of Corporations across the board
-helped Big Corpo continue to stomp out LABOR
-helped throw Welfare cheats off the dole, but also threw genuinely needy people under the Republican Conservative Bus
-helped strangle the Independent Press, and helped Rupert Murdoch and Mellon Scaiffe consolidate and strengthen their strangle hold on the Media.
-helped gays to continue to be an oppressed minority.
@ezeflyer
Great quote from the master of neocon double-think, Cass Sunstein. But you left out his preceding paragraph which is a doozey:
“Even in democracies, disparities in power play a large role in silencing dissent-sometimes by ensuring that dissenters keep quiet, but more insidiously by ensuring that dissenters are not really heard. Social science offers relevant lessons here; it shows that members of low-status groups - less educated people, African Americans, sometimes women - carry less influence within deliberating groups than their higher-status peers. In the actual world of deliberation, powerless dissenters face an array of obstacles to a fair hearing.”
From Sunstein’s book “Why Societies Need Dissent”, 2003.
Yes, neomunk, policy gains are (a little) like yardage. There are a lot of policies and there are a lot of yards. And no football team wins anything without gaining those yards one by one (in spite of your “fixed game” analogy.
And, tetti tatti, why don’t you tell us what YOU want and how we’re going to actually get it? Ripping Clinton is not much solution to anything, you know.
good piece basically, but why is the author giving us TV? does he think that we are brain dead and to believe something we need to see it on TV? i really would appreciate other readers’ take on this.
The Demoks need the Repuks to gather the spoils of war and the Repuks need the Demoks to stifle dissent. They are a complimentary pair. Now, they are poised to collapse into one party. Consolidation and monopoly are “business as usual”. This kind of government will require a traditional corporate executive.
I have been listening online (KPFA.org - donate!!) to Conyers’ hearing (thank you Dennis Kucinich) all morning. Listening to Conyers is so sad. Seems that the old geezer stuff affecting McCain holds true for once civil liberties champions like Conyers. The Dems could have done an entirely different format, could have caucased before the hearing to slam forth the litany of crimes of this administration. Seems that Conyers isn’t up to it anymore.
If you want to get the process started just support Kucinich (he has a web site) and vote for Nader. BTW the votes for Nader are about only 38% registered Democrat (if that as far as ’stealing’ them) and since others from Republican and other parties and ‘get out to vote’ have voted for him it’s probably a ‘+’ or net-zero for Dems anyway (if you’re paranoid about ’stealing votes.’ See Nader’s Crashing the Party book). We need a new multi-party system. This duopolistic Pseudo-Fascist-Corporo-Plutocracy must be dismantled!
Daniel David what I want is for you and other apologists to get your heads our of the sand and stop defending the corporate mobsters that constitute 90% of the Democratic Party. Haven’t you had enough?
After 7 years of crimes against the constitution aided and abetted by Dems, you’re still the Nile?
this @ 2:40pm:
“…why don’t you tell us what YOU want and how we’re going to actually get it? Ripping Clinton is not much solution to anything, you know.”
if i may attempt a short list:
—troops home now;
—no attack on iran;
—universal health care;
—a liveable minimum wage;
—stop the assault on our environment;
—end corporate personhood;
—restore the constitution and bill of rights.
that would be a start.
now, please explain how saint obama is the solution to achieving any of these goals, given his silence on some of them and his open disdain for the rest?
“NPR this morning has a story . . . ”
NPR again - Never Pissoff Republicans.
If you want change, then vote for change. Forget about the “lesser of two evils” and “viable choices.” Vote your conscience.
Vote McKinney-Clemente. Only McKinney and Nader support impeachment.
John M. Wages, Jr.
Candidate for US House, MS-01
www.VoteJohnWages.com
Did anyone see what Obama said yesterday in Berlin? Basically, he asked the Europeans to join the US in waging the “War on Terror,” calling it a “war we must win.”
Does anyone really support this idea, as a central focus for a new US administration? The “War on Terror” is a lie (which happens to be Bush’s own idea, let’s recall). The truth is that the world does not really have a serious problem with terrorism. More precisely, the only serious terrorism problem we have is that the US & Israel are the lawless terrorists, and something must be done about them. But apart from that, the world has no real problem on this front. What the US calls “terrorism” is simply the resistance that inevitably develops when you bully too many people for too long, & try to dominate their land, their economies, & their resources.
The real problem faced by the US is the lack of democracy, and our excessive militarism, imperialism, & corporatism. The real problem is climate change, caused by corporate capitalism. The real problem is social inequality, and media lying.
But this shameful liar Obama gets up there in Berlin, to exhort the Europeans to join the US in a great new project: escalating the bombing of poor people in Afghanistan (& quite possibly also Pakistan). This is “change we can believe in.”
Cass Sunstein is a cowardly and Machiavellian piece of slime.
Obama’s speech in Berlin yesterday was a praise of and a blueprint for indefinite or even permanent global U.S. Imperialism.
At the same time, history is running out of patience with U.S. idiocy. If Obama doesn’t wise up and get the nation on the right track, the consequent meltdown may well result in revolution and dissolution of the Union.
California, where I live, could do just fine on our own. We would import a lower percentage of our oil because we are pretty much independent of the rest of the country on our oil supply now, and would immediately be one of the top 5 or 10 economies in the world. We have solar and wind power potential to become completely energy independent in short order. The Federal tax system returns only about 60 cents on the dollar back to our economy. We could do a lot better without subsidizing the rest of the U.S. like we do now.
At today’s Impeachment Hearings,
__ n e e d _ to
Namaste « Presence »
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world » — Gandhi
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man’s need but not for man’s greed » — Gandhi
« We adopt the means of nonviolence because our end is a community at peace with itself » — ML King
Daniel FUCKING David is just nothing more than a partisan shill for the uber-corrupt Democrats. 9 out of 10 times, he supports rightwing policies and then tries to beg you to “Just elect Democrats and things will change.” The fuck they won’t. Daniel FUCKING David doesn’t want you to study the history of the Democrats pandering to RAYGUN in the 1980s big time or Democrats acting like a bunch of pansies even in the 1990s caving in to the Gingriches and the Delays. Worst of all, Daniel FUCKING David doesn’t want you to find out that for the past 7.5 years, the Democrats have gone out of their FUCKING ways to prove Nader’s assertion that there’s not a dime’s worth of a difference between the two parties correct.
Hey Mister Daniel FUCKING David, ever heard of the sayings “Do more with less” and “Get more for less”? If John Conyers, Nancy Pelosi, etc … had done their FUCKING jobs of using their given powers to hold the Bush gang accountable, they wouldn’t look like the FUCKING LOSERS they are today ! But go right ahead and keep begging for people to vote Obama but come November when Mccain will win a LANDSLIDE victory and even all 50 STATES and Nader will take a HUGE CHUNK of Obama’s votes away and more Democrats will lose their seats in both House and Senate because people saw the Democrats for the POMPOUS FRAUD that they were for caving in to the GOP completely for the last two years !
HASTA LA VISTA PANSY DEMOCRATS !! LOL !! LOL !!
“New boss, same as the Old boss.”
the Who.
Thx, Glenn. How did a sharp guy like Fein spend so many years running interference for the first dark prince of the new empire, Bush-pre-cursor Ronald Reagan? It’s arguable that Reagan’s assaults on the Constitution were equally egregious and prepared the way for the Cheney/Bush Regime. Certainly the neo-cons all got their first national exposure with Reagan, including the most virulent and poisonous members of the team. Abrams, Adelman, and Negroponte all got their start wreaking untold havoc in Central America at Reagan’s pleasure, it total violation of the OAS Charter, the UN Charter, the US Constitution, the War Powers Act and the Boland Amendment. Didn’t Fein notice?
jareilly July 25th, 2008 5:03 pm: “It’s arguable that Reagan’s assaults on the Constitution were equally egregious and prepared the way for the Cheney/Bush Regime.”
Cheney and Rumsfield were in the Nixon government. They were paying attention when America didn’t send their boss to jail.
Gee, I wonder what different lesson they would have learned if there had been some consequences?
> Statement from Cindy Sheehan, independent candidate for U.S. Congress, on the Non-Impeachment Impeachment Hearings of the House Judiciary Committee in Washington, DC
>
> (Friday, July 25, 2008 — 2 p.m. EST)
>
> I got up at 5:00 a.m. this morning so that I could get into the hearings of the House Judiciary Committee in Washington, D.C. — and I sat through the hearings. I think they should have been real impeachment hearings and not sham hearings about the abuse of executive power.
> Still, I recognize it was a baby step in the right direction — and I think that our Cindy Sheehan For Congress candidacy in San Francisco was the tipping point that pushed Nancy Pelosi to say that hearings could happen.
>
> A lot of good information was presented at the hearings, and some very strong, very incredible witnesses testified. Toward the end, when Vince Bugliosi stated before the Committee that there should be justice for the more than 4,000 U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq, I stood up and stated loudly, “Thank you” to Mr. Bugliosi — as my son Casey was one of those soldiers who died because of lies and deception by George Bush and Dick Cheney.
>
> Immediately, Committee Chairman John Conyers told the audience that his colleagues were urging him to take action. I then said loudly, “I urge you all to take action.” That is when Chairman Conyers kicked me out of the hearings.
>
> Yes. We need real impeachment hearings. We need Congress to take action against Bush, Cheney and all those in the administration who lied, abused their power, and violated the precious rights enshrined in our Constitution.
THE REASON……The top demos (turncoats, liars, cowards, crooks, idiots, all) are deathly afraid that if impreachment hearings were held the first witness for Bush will name names of who on the Demo side knew EVERTHING.
Plain and simple…..these bastards knew EVERTHING and played this bullshit game with us all. They are no good never will be and we the United States of Lemmings are all going over the cliff because we are so stupid. We are so busy shopping and flipping our houses or getting worked up over some gay people marrying leaving the so-called govenment to just plain screw us……
Obama is one hell of a phoney.
1. Fisa
2. Cass Sunstein his Supreme Court pick told us that we should not charge Bush and his crew. Not good for the country.
3. Obama is now the leader of “WAR ON TERROR.” Does this idiot know what Terror really is? NO.
4. HOPE Obama message…..Bullship he is a liar and coward…wait It said that above.
Who in hell will vote for him he it at the point of making McCain good or better…….or atleast the same.
Obama will likely win…even without my vote. And then we’ll see ourselves in the same fix as when the Clintons won….it seemed good for about a week.
Veteran ‘66-68
cindysheehan July 25th, 2008 5:29 pm :> Immediately, Committee Chairman John Conyers told the audience that his colleagues were urging him to take action. I then said loudly, “I urge you all to take action.” That is when Chairman Conyers kicked me out of the hearings.
>
It’s no use, Cindy Sheehan, apparently a vote for you is a “wasted vote”. You see the trick, as I’ve learned, is to wait and see who is going to win and then, and only then, vote for them along with everyone else, regardless of their political orientation. So you won’t get any support here until it’s certain that you are going to win.
When the Democratic Party takes the RED out of their representative DONKEY, then WE THE PEOPLE will at least know that the RIGHT WING EXTREME isn’t gloating as easily as they were about controlling the Democrats, but the last time I saw that donkey on a sticker, he was half RED. Corporate Republican EXTREME DLC RED.
I hear ya Cindy. The hearings could have been the beginnings of impeachment given the witness testimonies. They were instead a sham because we are told “i is off the table”.
When I look at Conyers, the name of a 1970’s all-star bluegrass jam band album pops into my head: Old and in the Way.
PS: Cindy, if you’re still perusing, check out my July 24th, 2008 9:03 pm comment on the John Nichols article if you didn’t see it. ♥
jlocke123 July 25th, 2008 5:45 pm
said: “It’s no use, Cindy Sheehan, apparently a vote for you is a “wasted vote”.”
I want to hope that that was poorly worded sarcasm. A vote for Cindy is a vote for America and the Constitution. I don’t consider that a waste. Even if she doesn’t win. At least the Corporatocacy will get to know that there is a price for not representing “we the people”. At least the powers that be will get a hint of what the people will do if their “representatives” do not uphold their oath to protect and defend the Constitution.
Supporting Cindy and forcing Nancy out of office because of her traitorous behavior is one thing I can get behind. And I have sent dollars to Cindy to back that up.
Join me. Support Cindy with everything you have (your vote) if you are in her district. Send dollars to Cindy if you are not. This is the only “national” campaign that really matters to me. It is the only opportunity that we have to really be heard.
GO CINDY!!!!
Rebel Farmer July 25th, 2008 6:36 pm: “I want to hope that that was poorly worded sarcasm”
What do you mean poorly worded! (Note to self: Americans unable to process sarcasm)
I guess it is that I have trouble believing that some people can actually take the “wasted vote” line seriously.
jlocke123– Hey, don’t get any of that broad-brushed paint on me, friend!
I picked up what you were puttin’ down from the get-go, comrade!
I see 2 possible solutions, maybe offering the carrot and threatening the stick: immunity and re-election for Pelosi and Reid, and/or impeachment for them along with the president-select and vp-select, and a serious, nationwide effort to defeat them in this election or the next primaries just in case impeachment fails. And there is always criminal prosecution, whether people occupy a public office or not.
If the polls tell the Democrats enough people are planning to vote for Cindy and others like her, maybe, just maybe, the Democratic “leadership” will do something.
Isn’t it obvious? Obama turns off a bunch of “progressives” with all kinds of anti-constitutional and war-mongering stuff. Predictable at this point in the campaign. Necessary damage (so the handlers think), which requires damage control. What better damage control than letting a little “impeachment” out of the box. (”Maybe the Democrats mean something after all.”)
It’s all about numbers. We are being analyzed and moved around on the checkers board. Political campaigns are marketing campaigns. The culture of corporatism and techniques of marketing are absolute in the corridors of power.
Of course, the whole point is to make us “buy it”.
BTW, that Obama has Cass Sunstein as an advisor is very significant. We’re not going to let them sweep crimes under the rug - the obvious intention - again, are we?
Does anybody actually read Sunstein’s books?? A couple of paragraphs is enough to put me to sleep.
if obama doesnt watch out… and start paying attention to how absolutely sick most of the nation has become of the “kid let loose in the candy store” type of politicians that have come to power since the bush administration… he may just end up losing the election to mcwhine and we cant have that now can we?
obama… needs to actually practice what he speeches!
i still have to ask… congress has a 9% approval rating… bush has a 27% rating… is that like the 5th hold out dentist… you have to wonder WTF those 9% and 27% are thinking…. or maybe thats the problem… they ARENT!
what happened to cindy today was unconscienable, the ivaw vets that were thrown out and others with Article.II.Section.4. were
kicked out AND ARRESTED! Cindy left in order to not create provocation for those psychopaths like Trent Franks, King and the other assholes. I had to use something to keep my ivaw shirt covered. that schmuck rebkin, whatever, was demeaning to all of our sons and daughters that have been murdered as well as
iraqi civilians, this upset Cindy of course, she chose not to engage ignorance and left, myself and others walked out accordingly.
you can listen or watch you can argue about whom to vote for, but you were not there. period.
RE: hazmat July 25th, 2008 3:27 pm
Good list, hazmat, but you left out absolutely the most important one, “DISMANTLE THE FEDERAL RESERVE!”
Control of our money by private bankers is whence most of the problems you list originate.
Obama is against impeachment and the man is a lawyer?
Pathetic.
The hearings which are not hearings are a sham, nothing more than a dog and pony show for consumption by the voters back home now that the Democrats realize they are in trouble with a 9% approval rating.
Lobo Gris
Daniel David July 25th, 2008 1:20 pm
“If liberals don’t win the elections at both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue, none of this is going to be anything but fodder for Republicans’ jokes.”
By liberals you mean whom, Mr. David, Democrats? That’s the joke.
re PaulMagillSmith July 26th, 2008 1:08 am
spot on, thanks.
When I received a solicitation for the Demos who are running for office, I felt conflicted because of the reasons stated in this article.
The Democrats must not hold office as if the only thing that is important is to be reelected. That has been the Republican model under George W. Bush and Karl Rove. What they need more than the popular Obama to solicit for them is for the current Demos sitting in the Congress and Senate to do the right thing and bring impeachment charges against George W. Bush and Dick Cheney, and to also prosecute members of their administration who are equally responsible. That will ensure a Democratic majority. What happens if they don’t succeed in their attempts to prosecute the law? They would still have championed the Constitution, and the American Voter, and a grateful nation would return them to their positions.
It’s amusing to read some of the anti-Obama comments here: When Obama says something you don’t like, such as talking about the war on terror, you believe every word he says; yet, when he refers to having his AG investigate and hold accountable past administrations for any crimes committed, you dismiss or ignore him.
You Obama-nots also have a stunning lack of historical perspective. The same things you’re saying now were said in the 1930s prior to the election of Franklin D. Roosevelt. ‘Both major parties are owned by big business and the bankers, so it doesn’t matter if a Republican or Democrat is elected — nothing will change.’ Then FDR was elected and proved that notion dead wrong.
It never occurs to you that Obama might be playing a game to win this election, and that means garnering a majority of the electoral votes. He is a black man walking a tightrope in a white majority nation; if he is seen as too radical, the Big Media will bury him, just as they buried Kucinich. (As it is he’s about 6-8 points ahead of the pathetic McCain when, if were he white, he’d likely be 15 to 20 points in the lead.) If he came out for all of your pet issues with impeachment on top, he wouldn’t have a chance of being elected in the current political environment in this country. That’s the reality created by thirty years of conservative corporate media reflexively echoing the GOP Talking Points. Obama knows you must first be elected in order to change anything, and he’s a masterful politician, unlike Ralph Nader and Cynthia McKinney.
You might ask yourselves why, if Nader’s ideas are so wonderful, he wasn’t able to get more than a tiny percentage of the vote in the last election. Unless you want to change the Constitution, the majority rules and the majority has rejected Nader’s message. What’s that you say? He didn’t get coverage by the Big Media so he was marginalized? Exactly. And he’s never going to win higher office that way. Obama, meanwhile, has used the mass media to advance his candidacy and, whether you want to admit it or not, many of his ideas are vastly different from McCain’s. But perhaps you think a small elite minority should dictate to the rest of the country how they should live — for their own good, of course. Congratulations, comrade, that road to failure has already been explored and you’re either a communist, a monarchist or a neocon if you believe that.
The fact is, none of you know what will happen if Obama is elected, it’s just all hot air on your part. As H.L. Mencken said “The cynic is right 9 times out of 10.” This may be the tenth time that cynicism is wrong, but you just can’t see that. You’ve become so accustomed to predicting the worst and seeing the worst happen that you religiously believe that the worst will inevitably continue, although history is evidence against that proposition.
However, should some of you have faith in your perfect clairvoyance, then use your talent to amass billions of dollars from the stock market or lottery tickets, put your money where your mouth is, and invest in a third party — if Nader or McKinney had a few billion, they, like Ross Perot, could buy themselves into the debates and onto ballots around the country.
It’s great to diagnose the problems; now provide the answers. Most of you should know that the popular vote counts for nothing in US presidential contests — it’s the electoral vote that matters. Your answer is to vote for either Nader or McKinney who aren’t presently on enough state ballots to win a sufficient number of electoral votes to become president. I can’t think of anything more fatuous, misleading and dimwitted than to encourage people to waste their vote on a candidate who has zero chance of winning the electoral college vote.
You’d be better off trying to take over one of the major parties, or building a third party from the ground up to challenge the two major parties. (Yes, I know the Libertarians and Greens have elected some officials nationwide, but they’re mostly in minor positions where they can’t affect legislation.) That means getting a full slate of state and local candidates elected and changing the ballot laws so that your presidential candidate can be a serious challenge in the future. That’s what Nader promised he’d do with the Green Party in 2000 — a promise he reneged on.
Of course, I realize it’s much easier to blow smoke on these threads at CD, endlessly bashing Obama — the best hope we’ve had for a new direction in a long time — rather than getting off your asses and doing something more constructive than crying that you didn’t get a puppy for your birthday and Obama hasn’t offered to provide you with one.
Keep it up — perhaps you’ll get McCain elected and continue the downward slide of America. In four years you can proudly proclaim that it’s not your fault, since you voted for a third party in 2008, and you can carp your reassuring tripe that it wouldn’t have made any difference since Obama would have been just as bad. You won’t know that for a fact, but then ignorance is a comfortable state of affairs for you. But you probably won’t be excusing yourselves on the Internet, as McCain will turn that over to the telecoms to run and censor — I mean, if you can afford to own a computer by then.
All that said, I hope Cindy Sheehan beats Pelosi in California. We need about 500 more like her in Congress — that would definitely hold Obama’s feet to the progressive fire.
jlocke123,
I have to second what Rebel Farmer said in her reply to your comments pertaining to Cindy Sheehan.
Pelosi’s attitude is traitorous and she needs to be ousted from office, and hopefully, the people in her San Francisco District are fed up with her support of Bush and vote for Cindy in November, sending her to Congress.
All politicians, from the President on down have taken an oath to defend and support the Constitution of the United States and almost everyone of them have violated that oath. Now is not a time for sarcasm, if it was meant to be.
Go Cindy Go!
****More wonderful perception from Greenwald: if he keeps this up I’m subscribing to Salon.com or something–right on the bullseye again !!! Keep goin’ after it Glenn, WOW!
====If Cass Sunstein was the source of advice to Obama’s vote for FISA, then we progressives better investigate where Sunstein is coming from, then raise Royal Hell that this guy ain’t no Democrat !!! I have no idea who Sunstein is but I sure intend to find out fast !!!!
****As shrill and unsincere as this hearing may be, (A real impeachment vote would’ve been better), it is now on the Record==and it broke thru Pelosi’s intransigence, and her leather-tough skin on impeaching King George. Why, she even called the King a “total failure” last week== will miracles never cease ? Maybe Pelosi hears Cindy Sheehan’s sneakers jogging up behind her; maybe Pelosi read Greenwalds devastating account after Obama’s FISA vote;maybe Pelosi heard a Money-Bomb is going to drop soon in August, and maybe–as Greenwald highly suggests==all those Demmy leaders are on some classified closed session hearing record as having been told/advised/approving King Georges criminal wiretapping, torture, and His War!! Therefore they now can’t possibly sanction the King criminally, or the Great Big Telecons, since they themselves knew of them well before time. All that makes her a co=conspirator !
****Pelosi almost had to loosen up and allow Kucinich to have his day in session==because of the pressures from intelligencia like Greenwald, and from bloggers like us Progs (rhymes with frogs) in here !!
ezeflyer July 25th, 2008 2:06 pm
Very well said. I’ve never noticed that it matters who said something if its the truth.
WTF July 25th, 2008 2:14 pm
Where can we get 40 Musketeers?
peaceman July 26th, 2008 10:44 am
Rebel Farmer
I’ve got to agree with these guys. I believe it would be better to take any possibility of repacing Pelosi. Besides how can you waste a vote? If you don’t vote for Cindy, you get a Pelosi default. Right?
Shame on John Conyers.
Question:
Where do 1)Barack Obama 2) John McCain 3) Ralph Nader 4) Cynthia McKinney 5) Ron Paul stand on impeachment?
I would like to put forward an attitude of kindness and respect for each other in the process of disagreeing. Agressive language tends, I think, to drive people into corners. However this does not preclude honest discussion and disagreement. I would love to see more straight-forward dialogue in the posts. It is part of the American impluse to tear our “enemies” to pieces. What we need is a place where people can feel okay about changing their minds. Good points are best made without heat. Leadership is invitational. Having said that:
Run, Ralph, run!
Shame on the lot of you, piss and moan, whine and gripe. that certainly will affect change. You all are great at it, though.
I don’t usually double post on two threads, but these are so similar I feel it appropriate:
Despite the fact the hearings were scheduled on the ‘non-news’ day of Friday (intentionaly I’m sure) this exercise was not a waste of time. A door doesn’t open all at once, but a bit at a time. Previously, thanks to the traitor Pelosi, it has been double-bolted, padlocked, with a chair propped against the knob.
Several points came out in the hearings of great importance.
First, valid grievances against this administration were aired publicly (Despite a Republican committee member requesting Conyers clear the room of spectators. Isn’t this typical of Republicans to want to hold secret hearings? If this ‘dirty laundry’ is so clean, then why not put it on public display to prove the point?), AND the testimony officially became part of the Congressional record.
Second, the point was made that there is no statute of limitations on murder charges, so members of the Bush administration remain liable to criminal prosecution even AFTER they leave office. Bugliosi, who prosecuted Charles Manson successfully, even stated emphatically he had no doubt he could also successfully convict a number of Bushies for the same crime, including those at the very top.
Third, it was determined that with a simple up-or-down vote in the House impeachment hearings could be brought to bear, and there is no executive privelege that applies that would allow them to not testify or deny any information sought. Refusing to comply is also in of itself a separate impeachable offense. This was the quickest of the ‘alternate’ means of impeachment also discussed, and ultimately the one that could dismantle the Bush cabal of cohorts EVEN BEFORE THE END OF THE TIME LEFT FOR THIS CROOKED CRIMiINAL ADMINISTRATION EXPIRED.
Did anyone else notice how the MSM typically conspired to give the hearing, one which John Conyers called the most important during this administration, short shrift in the news. I had to do quite a bit of digging to find an article in the New York Times, and I think it was on page three of the Washington Post. Shouldn’t this have been front page news?
PS Thankyou, Cindy, keep forging ahead, you are doing the right (not!), er ‘correct’ thing.
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kloro July 25th, 2008 2:52 pm
good piece basically, but why is the author giving us TV? does he think that we are brain dead and to believe something we need to see it on TV? i really would appreciate other readers’ take on this.
kloro, I am not so much angry at his using TV as I am at all internet authors that ASSUME all of us now have a high-enough connect speed to even see such a video. Please, internet people, stop turning this great resource into an elitist avenue of getting out information. There are still millions of people who only have dial-up access! And considering the way the economy is going, I suspect there are going to be millions more in the future who decide the cost of high-speed connect is just not worth it. Glenn Greenwald now has parts of his informative article blacked out to a large mass of people! Why? Well, the woman on the left is somewhat attractive. Now THAT’S IMPORTANT ISN’T IT!? So we have all this massive amount of pictorial information streaming down (and clogging up) the internet so we can see these 2 heads that barely move (except for this hole in the middle of their face). And I would like to take this opportunity to thank CommonDreams for (largely) bucking this trend towards all-video internet. I have a feeling that 10 years from now, if you want to participate in a forum, you will need to have a camera shoot your face reciting what you want to say. Gee, that means, unlike now, if you for example stutter, or you’re not too good looking, or maybe not very good on camera, it will directly influence how people perceive what you have to say. But the way things are trending, this is a luxury we are slated to loose. SO thank you, CommonDreams, for remaining text-based and letting us communicate information and rather then manipulation.
Bullshit NPR isn’t comcast! They’re two heads on the same beast.
CD here trying to send people off to other people who will surely bedazzle them…
What of any of NPR’s “reporting” has made a difference? Why is there 0 (zero) media outlets regularly reporting the more than a million Iraqi lives lost to violence, mostly air bombardment, since the GW2 began and where oh where is anyone publishing the carnage? So that people will make the connection… Will realize how egregiously wrong “the war” is. I’d like to see pictures of prewar Iraq held up beside today’s Iraq. The troops who are there think they invaded a nation without infrastructure. This because when they rolled into town everything had just been demolished. So they never saw Baghdad as a bustling and modern city, from day 1 (of the war) it was a trash heap. Then for years after in most places there was no running water, electricity for a few hours per day… Plus there were an average 50 aerial bombardments per month every month on going… Imagine if the police in Los Angeles were flying Apache Attack helicopters with tomahawk missiles and a 30mm chain gun and authorized to kill on site no questions asked (period).