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Today's Top News
Olbermann on Obama's Assassination Program
There are many legitimate criticisms voiced about Keith Olbermann, but he deserves substantial credit for his coverage [Wednesday] night of a story that is as self-evidently significant as it is under-covered: Barack Obama's assassination program aimed at American citizens. He not only led off his show with this story, but devoted the first two segments to it, and made many of the key observations and asked virtually all of the right questions. The videos of those two segments, worth watching, are below.
What's most striking to me about all of this is that -- as I noted yesterday (and as Olbermann stressed) -- George Bush's decision merely to eavesdrop on American citizens without oversight, or to detain without due process Americans such as Jose Padilla and Yaser Hamdi, provoked years of vehement, vocal and intense complaints from Democrats and progressives. All of that was disparaged as Bush claiming the powers of a King, a vicious attack on the Constitution, a violation of Our Values, the trampling on the Rule of Law. Yet here you have Barack Obama not merely eavesdropping on or detaining Americans without oversight, but ordering them killed with no oversight and no due process of any kind. And the reaction among leading Democrats and progressives is largely non-existent, which is why Olbermann's extensive coverage of it is important. Just imagine what the reaction would have been among progressive editorial pages, liberal opinion-makers and Democratic politicians if this story had been about George Bush and Dick Cheney targeting American citizens for due-process-free and oversight-less CIA assassinations.
Republicans are not going to object to any of this. With rare exception, they believe in unlimited executive authority and denial of due process. They see Obama's adoption of the core Bush/Cheney approach as a vindication of what they did for eight years (and also see it, not unreasonably, as proof that progressive complaints about Bush's "shredding of the Constitution" were not genuine but rather opportunistic, cynical and motivated by desire for partisan gain). As a result, even the most Obama-hating right-wing extremists will praise him and cheer for what he's doing. At the same time, the people who spent eight years screaming about things like this (when Bush/Cheney were doing them) are now mostly silent if not finding ways to justify and defend it (we don't need due process because the President said this is an American-Hating Terrorist). As White House servant Richard Wolffe said in the second Olbermann segment below (and Wolffe's commentary was actually fairly good), the White House is "very proud" of its presidential assassination program, which is likely why they decided to leak it to the NYT and the WP yesterday.
Here again, we see one of the principal and longest-lasting effects of the Obama presidency: to put a pretty, eloquent, progressive face on what (until quite recently) was ostensibly considered by a large segment of the citizenry to be tyrannical right-wing extremism (e.g., indefinite detention, military commissions, "state secrets" used to block judicial review, an endless and always-expanding "War on Terror," immunity for war criminals, rampant corporatism -- and now unchecked presidential assassinations of American citizens), and thus to transform what were once bitter, partisan controversies into harmonious, bipartisan consensus:
UPDATE: Here's the segment I did yesterday on Al Jazeera -- along with The Weekly Standard's Bill Roggio and GWU Professor of Media and International Affairs Steven Livingston -- regarding the WikiLeaks/Iraq video:
UPDATE II: The American Prospect's Adam Serwer has an interesting post reporting that civil rights groups have issued a joint letter opposing the closing of Guantanamo if it means -- as the Obama administration has suggested -- that Guantanamo and its defining injustices will simply be re-located to U.S. soil. As part of his reporting, Serwer writes this:
[B]road assertions of executive power haven't even been limited to the last administration. Instead, we've seen the powers of the president expand, with the Obama administration asserting the right to assassinate American citizens without any due process or finding of guilt whatsoever.
From a civil libertarian point of view, we're in a much worse place than we were during the Bush administration, when Democrats were willing to oppose Bush's expansive claims of executive authority. Now we have only muted criticism from Democratic legislators and hysterical cries from Republicans that Obama isn't going far enough.
As far as I'm concerned, that's the point that cannot be stressed enough. And it's particularly good to see its being highlighted in a liberal publication like the Prospect (though Serwer has been pointing out such things there for quite some time).
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236 Comments so far
Show AllGuess which popular pro-Democratic Party site where this story is going under the radar? That usually follows Keith Olbermann quite closely? He even posts there relatively frequently. Starts with a "D" and ends with a "Kos".
Olbermann is a progressive democrat that spends his entire show mocking republican nonsense much like O'Reilly or Hannity do to the democrats on Fox. Never a guest to contradict their point of view but at least Olbermann does not shy away from going after the democrats when he feels it is necessary as in this case. I like him.
"Never a guest to contradict their point of view "
This is definitly true of Keith and Rachel. BO OTOH has opposing views all the time, four ot of five shows I would say and sometimes multiples on one show. Whether you think they get a fair break is a different matter but they are there. He's had Code Pink on there several times just as a for instance.
Meanwhile I watch in vain for Keith or Rachel to have a guest who disagrees with them. If I'm wrong, I would love to hear an example.
You say that "BO has opposing views all the time..." Is BO supposed to stand for Barack Obama? Unless I am mistaken, I thought Obama is the president of the U.S. instead of a talk show host.
Sorry, Bill O'Reilly.
A couple of examples:
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/
maddow-dresses-down-americans-for-prosperity.php
http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2010/03/maddow-vs-jd-hayworth.html
He's sure not going after Obama, however.
Glenn Greenwald brings out an important point regarding how the Republicans, who are ready to jump on Obama at a moment's notice, are usually quite loath to criticize Obama's actions in the Middle East. The Tea Party participants do the same thing. They will claim with a straight face that a capitalist like Obama is ruining the country with his worse than useless health care plan. But yet they remain strangely reticent regarding the mumber of civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq who have been ripped to pieces by Obama's 500 lb. bombs and lethal firepower which emanates from America's Apache helicopters.
The conservatives in this country are quite eager to criticize what they think are the domestic failures of the Obama administration while completely ignoring the morally bankrupt policies of Obama's war crimes in the Middle East proving, apparently, how selective [and irrationaly] they are in their disapproval of what they think are the major faults of those who are currently in power.
Erroll: well put, and isn't it interesting that Obama actually caters to the approval of the tea-baggers when they wouldn't vote for him if he walked on water, whereas he ignores the screams of progressives like Greenwald and most of "us" because, as Rahm Emanuel says, we lefty radicals have "no place else to go" with our votes? Well, if he has the leftist vote in his pocket and the tea-bagger one not available to him, what about he just ignored the political consequences and did the morally right and constitutionally defensible thing? Much as we may not like government from the "center," at least that's the position from which a leader does not have to worry about losing his/her "base," and that's a position of tremendous power unless...well maybe he really is frightened for his life from those who bring their guns along with their tea-bags to rallies.
'Much as we may not like government from the "center," at least that's the position from which a leader does not have to worry about losing his/her "base,"'
Is the "center" defined by the populace or the politicians/elites? The center of the populace is far to the left of the politicians/elites.
No, the center of the populace is BOTH far to the left and far to the right of the politicians/elites. True libertarians and Buchanan conservatives have far more in common with progressives than either have with the corrupt corporate center. That's one of the disappointments I have with rank and file Democrats. They're mostly anti-war. If they'd run real anti-war, pro-civil liberties candidates they'd pick up some of the libertarian vote and completely eliminate the Greens.
William Rood, patriotic citizen of the world
""no place else to go" "
Bull puckey. You just have to have the guts to go there.
www.gp.org
Concur.
Obamageddon to his fawning sycophants:
"How do you like me now?"
So how do you like your Mr. Change you can believe in?
I think you're missing the point here. The idea is to spy on republicans and then assassinate them one by one until there aren't any left. So what's wrong with that?
Grousefeather
I think what you may wish to keep in mind is that even if no Republicans were left, that would still mean that the Democrats could basically maintain the policies left behind by the Republicans [no universal health care, endless wars, etc.].
Erroll: "First they came for the Republicans...."
I like that, phoenix20!
Why would they want to assassinate their fellow club members?
>>Yesterday, I spoke with a woman whom I admire a great deal. She is extremely intelligent.
An intelligence that is skin deep no doubt. Here is the problem with far too many people.
They choose what they want to believe and then exlude anything that would contradict the same. They are absolutely oblivous to the truth. It is like their brain filters out that information before it can be processed.
The Human eye apparently SEES much more information then the brain is able to process, so the optic nerve that runs from the eye to the brain is narrowed by design so that all that information does not reach the brain.
Soemthing akin to this seems to be at work when people try and process information that contradicts their belief systems. They discard it. The narrowing of the optic nerve seems to be a consequence of evolutionary design. The filter mechanism that turns on to tune out evidence that would contradict belief systems seems to be a learned behaviour.
"They choose what they want to believe and then exlude anything that would contradict the same. "
It's called "Confirmation Bias". *Everybody* does it including jakenewton and GwNorth. The object is to know this and to take measures counter the tendency.
"Milgram experiments"
BTW, I wonder if this has a role in the differences found in how people in different cultures respond ro survays. Germans, for example, are prone to give an answer they think the poll taker wants to hear, more so than certain other countries.
I read up on Milgram experiments. There are four verbal prods:
Please continue.
The experiment requires that you continue.
It is absolutely essential that you continue.
You have no other choice, you must go on.
The 1st one doesn't sound as authoritarian compared to the last 3. With enough brainwashing the public into accepting the authoritarian ideology, obedience on the first verbal prod can't fail.
I fell for Obama on the last minute because I had this feeling of race guilt, anxiety to turn VA blue after 44 years, and no hope that Nader would be able to get Congress to budge even if he did win. 3 and 4 combined seems to match those reasons. There should be some way to reprogram this experiment so that people will at least feel obligated to listening to all parties instead of just the two major ones.
I know everyone does it. Thats why I try and read books by people whose Political beliefs I do not agree with. I do this with websites as well.
I have even read Anne Coulter painful as that was. ;)
"Thats why I try and read books by people whose Political beliefs I do not agree with. "
Great idea, although I suggested it on these boards once and got panned.
"I have even read Anne Coulter painful as that was. "
I'm sure. I think she may be a man BTW. Her hands seem big.
I suggest you read Robert Kagan's Dangerous Nation.
I'll look into it. Have a nice weekend.
"(This was epitomized on Here and Now, where Robin Young did a piece of hagiography on Patraeus)"
My worst nightmare involves President David Petraeus, inaugurated January 7th 2013.
I could add two or three paragraphs in support of any one of yours above, but it would all be nothing more than a recap of everything written by aware CD readers in the two weeks.
A recent poll found that 59% of Americans are in favor of the US invading Iran. Call me a cynic, but the wording of Obama's new "no first use" policy regarding use of nuclear weapons leaves a lot of wiggle room that would still 'legally' allow a nuclear attack upon Iran.
As far as I can tell, Obama is nothing but a more articulate George Bush with a much nicer smile but meaner than a rattlesnake when it comes to the extension of his brother George's foreign policy and intelligence gathering efforts.
I ramble.
"The govt. has pretty much full spectrum dominance over the media..."
Just to be VERY CLEAR, it is the CORPORATIONS, through direct ownership and the media's reliance on coprorate advertizers, that have "full spectrum" dominance over the media. Remember that the advertizers are their customers, and the viewers and listeners are the product being sold to the advertizers.
The corporations, by other means, control the government too.
In no place in the world do corporations wield such power over polity and daily life.
So to say it's "the government" is to be barking up entirely the wrong tree. The media fails to cover real news due to its fear of losing corporate advertizing revenue, not anything the government would do. Please remember this.
Let's be clear here. The government isn't who is firing reporters who attempt to report real news, and government is also not stopping the citizenry from expressing dissent. USAns are still pretty damn free to dissent, it's just they are either too ignorant of anything beyone their SUV, I-Pod and My Space page to dissent at all. When they dissent, they dissent from a completely misinformed perspective, or they don't express dissent at all becasue they are afraid of loss of employment or blacklisting - at the hands of their capitalist bosses, NOT the government.
I do dissenting things in my US government workplace that would have gotten me fired long ago at a capitalist employer.
Activists and workers 80 to 150 years ago faced far more government opression - the haymarket seven, Matewan, Ludlow, Sacco and Vanzetti, the Palmer Raids. Nothing like this is happening now.
Also as a clarification, Mussolini's "corporate state" definition of fascism is a mistranslation, his use of the word translated as "corporate" was not at all the same meaning as the modern US-english word "corporate". Mussolini was not referring to chartered limited-liability businesses. He was referring to the bundling of all power in the authoritarian State per their adopted symbol, the Roman Fascia - a bundle of sticks containing an executioners axe.
We live in times that are not much different than earlier robber-barron eras, the one important exception that the corporations have used the mass PR and media theories of Bernays and Lippman very effectviely to control popular thought, and have cowed those with lawmaking and regulating power in government (who themselves are caught in the thought-control web) from doing anything about it. But it is private entities that are exercising this thought control, not the government. This should be obvious. The government isn't stopping critical coverage of the wikileaks atrocities, the private news media is.
Sioux Rose
PJD: I'd like to see Rich M take on your points. I can't tell if you're splitting hairs to create a "miss the forest for the trees" effect both with your kneejerk support for the official 911 story, and your argument that the government and corporations somehow present separate interests these days, as opposed to aligning their agendas to create the most odious of outcomes on numerous fronts. Seems you're arguing FOR "the goverment," and its powers... even though the inversion of civil liberties is chilling!
You say we are free to protest... there's something about being Tasered, pushed into a pen, trampled over by weapon-bearing uniformed officers, pre-empted in any organized attempts thanks to surveillance that takes some of the efficacy out of this "freedom" to protest. And I've been on my share of protests...
Since when is the US govt. going after Tea-party types?
The biggest problem with the March 20 peace march was it's non-coverage by the media. A much smaller number of tea party types got much greater coverage.
As far as the fines for posting protest signs around DC - that is the local police doing that. Please stop thinking of "government" as the monolithic entity and start learning about its organization, so its odious actions can be addressed.
"Seems you're arguing FOR "the government" and its powers."
Government is working for the corporations for the same reasons all of us are ultimately working for the corporations too. They are afraid of losing their jobs.
What other counterbalance to corporate power are you suggesting if not democratic, accountable government working for the people?
Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
I, frankly done even know what "the official story" is. I only know, as an engineer and a rational human being, that the notion that the WTC destruction was done with planted explosives, with the planes added for show or something, is absurd.
Was the failed attempt to bring the WTC down in 1993 a secret government conspiracy too. what is so hard about believing that the US had abuse and pissd off a lot of Arabs and they wanted to give the US a taste of it's own medicine?
Sioux Rose
PDJ: When something smells fishy it generally is. You could be a born authoritarian... otherwise YOUR motives, based on which "side" of this argument you argue for... are suspect. In this forum, more people question the official story than accept it, so utlimately the burden of proof is on you. At the least, the way the investigation was given short shrift and "those responsible" were touted out like old inventory a shop had waiting on hand, ready to be sold for a holiday... mighty curious, all that.
And it is not a "taste of it's own medicine." It is a "taste of its own medicine." It's means it is, and its = the possessive use of the term.
The people on this forum who question the official story are a very tiny minority. Even David Ray Griffin got off to a flaky start and bad timing long after 9/11 happened. The people who you say are questioning it are only repeating DRG's unproven theories ad nauseum. Proving that the buildings collapsed spontaneously is like trying to prove that God exists. Goddess Venus is getting a little worried about you sounding as authoritarian as Glenn Beck. Don't worry, be happy.
I see, so if I don't believe the manifestly preposterous theory that the the WTC was brought down in a complex, but seamless secret operation that would have required that many thousands of people remained silent about murdering thousands of their fellow citizens - all in service of the bumbling president Bush; then, I'm an authoritarian fascist.
Well, at least I'm in good company - Noam Chomsky, Naomi Klein, Amy Goodman, Michael Albert and the entire staff of Znet/Zmagazine, all the contributors to Monthly Review - basically all the US left - must be authoritarian fascists too, because they don't believe this 911 insanity either.
I really shouldn't expect logic form a profoundly uneducated person who spends most of her time spouting superstitious mumbo-jumbo.
"In this forum, more people question the official story than accept it, so utlimately the burden of proof is on you."
Sioux, I hope all is well. The "Burden of Proof" is always on those who claim something to be true. The forum does not change this. Please google "Burden of Proof" and see.
Jake, I tried to explain to her all about burden of proof in the past even when she tried to talk about her allegations being true without proof. Anyone who disagreed with her she would tie my name to it and I wrote replies asking her to ask the CD admins to prove her false allegations and she refused. Her reply would always be something like "they won't answer but I just know they're true because I'm right and everyone knows I'm always right". I would disprove it only to see her usual associates gather around giving juvenile attacks as if she's some goddess. I anticipate that one of her associates will come out of nowhere and attack as usual.
I don't wish anyone ill but it's hard to get some people to come clean. I don't know if you have noticed but on every site, people will say the dumbest things just to get into someone's or some groups goodie books. I like your independent attitude.
Peace
Again, people get very invested in their positions, and that's where they often fail to check Confirmation Bias and otherwise suspend Critical Thinking skills. Sioux is OK I think, but she's human, we all do this to some degree.
Thanks Jake for the reply and so true it is. I didn't want to go hard on anyone but I couldn't resist it at some point. I think that is the weakness she and Erroll also have. If you get to read my past discussions on the burden of proof subject, I think I better apologize in advance for some of my remarks that have sounded too offensive. I'll admit that I'm not always good at getting past the weakness of getting invested into positions that appeal to me over others but I'm still working on it. I may have only completed high school and never attended college but even a doctorate can be stuck on confirmation biases and not know it.
I probably should not be surprised but nonetheless I still find it bizarre that you claim, with a straight face, that anyone who dares to challenge the government and its official fairy tale as to what occurred on 9/11/01 are, according to your [alleged] infinite wisdom, not engaging in "Creative Thinking skills." If that statement were not so tragic it could almost be considered comical. You are the one who is accepting, apparrently without question, the government's version of what happened while there are scientists and intellectuals and firefighters and air traffic controllers who thankfully are doing exactly what you are claiming that they should be doing and that is critically thinking about what the Bush/Cheney regime has claimed had happened on Sept. 11, 2001.
"Without debate, without criticism, no administration and no country can succeed-and no republic can survive."-John F. Kennedy
"you claim, with a straight face, that anyone who dares to challenge the government and its official fairy tale as to what occurred on 9/11/01 are, according to your [alleged] infinite wisdom, not engaging in "Creative Thinking skills." "
Please show where I ever made such a claim. And it's "Critical" not "Creative". I have talked about a *tendency* people *sometimes* have about suspending Critical Thinking when the topic is one where they are highly invested.
"You are the one who is accepting, apparrently without question, the government's version of what happened "
I never said as much. You are welcome to *guess* all you want.
""Without debate, without criticism, no administration and no country can succeed-and no republic can survive."-"
I agree, as long as the criticism is sound. OTOH, wild ungrounded speculations such as with the troothers is an incredible waste of resources and a damned shame as well.
I hope one day you will research the basics of Critical Thinking and correct your ways. It really isn't that hard. There are plenty of resources that address the basic fallacies that you constantly rely on.
"I, frankly done even know what "the official story" is."
There is no "official story". The idea that there is an "official story" is often used as a Red Herring. 911 was so extraordinarily public and global in it's nature that the very idea that any one national, state, or local government or any other body would be the source of the "official story" is absurd.
I have been to a lot of protests too. Tazers don't come close to what protesters faces in Matewan, Ludlow, the RR yards in 1877, Homestead, Haymarket, the Palmer Raids - i.e. the police aren't opening fire on anyone.
Quit you fucking complaining and start organizing.
Sioux Rose
In this post you sound JUST like Shawn Berry and his ilk.
Quit my complaining? With MY nation sold down a sewer?
Start organizing? I live in the sticks, the Bible belt. You want to come down here and organize, go for it, genius boy.
I subscribe to the Bahai Faith ideal which characterizes THE TEACHER as one of the highest callings. I have dedicated my life to raising consciousness, and broadening awareness. I am and have been a teacher who writes books and articles. Do not DARE to condescend and tell ME what to do. Your ego is obese.
And what the f--k have you done? Organize a protest in Pittsburgh...
Some have it within their natures to get out there on the front lines. Others write the manuals that become the blueprints for change. Others don't even know the parade is passing... only an authoritarian/clone/Mr. Smith would presume to tell others what to do.
Unbelievable...
Try being a little practical and realistic. You sound just like Glenn Beck and his ilk. Who cares if you're a teacher? Teachers ain't perfect either. PJD isn't forcing you to do as he says. He's just suggesting. Can't you be simple about anything? Goddess Venus has just sent me a mystical message congratulating PJD and me for our local progressive efforts and asks that Sioux Rose do some progressive organizing in her neck of the woods. Calm down and take it easy chubby poochy.
You're right private companies are the main problems here, however, there is also a desire to keep close government "access" that limits criticism/question of government policy when that access is desired by journalists and the company owning the private media. Fox News is an example of where they have a preference for access to one party. CNN and the major networks are examples of private media channels that desire access to both parties and remain restrained.
One thing I notice about you PJ is that you display an extremely short fuse at times. Your personal attack on Rose was beyond the pale. You'll catch a lot more flies with honey than vinegar.
That said, I feel the need to point out a couple of things in regards to your posts. First, your obsession with 911 is a bit alarming. While I don't subscribe to 911 conspiracy theories, I don't feel the need to try and debunk everyone who holds out the possibility that 911 is not as it seems. We have real concrete issues that this country needs to deal with and from my point of view, it has become nothing more than a distraction. When your military is cutting the bullets out of dead pregnant women, I think a prioritization is order. You obsessing on 911 and mocking people who don't agree with you is a total waste of time.
As for the Mussolini quote, it doesn't matter whether it was misinterpreted or not. Mussolini can best be viewed by his actions. Is their any doubt in your mind that Mussolini set up a pro-corporate government? If so, I will be happy to educate you on Mussolini's vision of corporation/government supremacy and the specific actions he took in support of that vision. This shameless attempt to slough off his corporatist vision is somewhat bizarre.
For every activist of 80 to 150 years ago, there are a thousand people today on this planet who are being subjected to exploitation and oppression on a scale unimagined 150 years ago. 3 BILLION people or more live on less than $2 a day. Countless people are disappeared. Billions eek out meager existences, 1 billion are starving. To try and pass this off as some sort of golden era of freedom and prosperity is absurd.
Finally, I'll assume that the emotion of the discussion has skewed your posts into the scatological no-mans land that you ended up in. Generally you seem to be a level headed poster who I am frequently in agreement with. In regards to this meltdown, I think you should carefully examine what it is that is inside you that caused this outburst.
Lefty, pjd has his rights to express what he thinks independently. Just because he disagrees with Rosie doesn't make him a bad guy. The man's a hard working scientist and a civil engineer for goodness sakes. Nobody has to sacrifice their principled beliefs and their diverse opinions just to get into someone's good books. Why don't you read Rosie's posts and see for yourself? On the one hand, she screams against authoritarianism but the next minute she digs it and it's laughable. If stating the facts and one's views and interpretations gets them blacklisted then so be it but why go through all this trouble of trying to give an immature reply to pjd just to get into Rosie's goodie books? She has some good points to make and she has some bad points too but she isn't a goddess. Get off that high horse and be a real man/woman.