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If you're in love with the world, fall in love with trying to save it
Years ago I was interviewed by a dogmatic pacifist (note to self: bad idea), who in his (grossly inaccurate) write-up said he thought I wanted all activists to think like assassins. That's not true. What I want is for us to think like members of a serious resistance movement.
What does that look like? Well, to start, it doesn't have to mean handling guns. Even when the IRA was at its strongest, only 2 percent of its members ever picked up weapons. The same is true for the Underground Railroad; Harriet Tubman and others carried guns, but Quakers and other pacifists who ran safe houses were also crucial to that work. What they all held in common was a commitment to their cause, and a willingness to work together in the resistance.
A serious resistance movement also means a commitment to winning, which means figuring out what "winning" means to you. For me, winning means living in a world with more wild salmon every year than the year before, more migratory songbirds, more amphibians, more large fish in the oceans, and for that matter oceans not being murdered. It means less dioxin in every mother's breast milk. It means living in a world where there are fewer dams each year than the year before. More native forests. More wild wetlands. It means living in a world not being ravaged by the industrial economy. And I'll do whatever it takes to get there (and if, by the way, you believe that "whatever it takes" is code language for violence, you're revealing nothing more than your own belief that nonviolence is ineffective).
That's fine, Derrick, but what do you want me to do?
Part of me wants to tell you to bring down the industrial infrastructure, the engine driving the destruction of the planet, converting so-called raw materials-read: living beings, biomes, and indeed the world-into products for sale. But there's also a part of me that doesn't want to suggest that, because I'm guessing you wouldn't do it anyway. And besides, I don't know you, and no one who doesn't know you should ever tell you what to do (and if they do, you shouldn't listen). In any case, ignoring what I have to say may not be such a bad idea, since what I really want is for people to think for themselves-not to bring down the industrial infrastructure because I tell them it's killing the world, but rather for them to deeply attend to our current crises and come to their own conclusions about what we must or must not do, what we must unmake and what we must make anew.
But, Derrick, what do you want me to do right now?
Okay, here's a list:
A lot of the indigenous people with whom I've worked have said to me that the first and most important thing any of us needs to do is decolonize our hearts and minds. Decolonization is the process of breaking your identity with and loyalty to this culture-industrial capitalism specifically, and more broadly civilization-and remembering your identification with and loyalty to the real physical world, including the land where you live. It means re-examining premises and stories this culture handed down to you. It means seeing the harm this culture does to other cultures, and to the planet. It means recognizing that we are living on stolen land. It means recognizing that the luxuries of this way of life do not come free, but rather are paid for by other humans, by nonhumans, by the whole world. It means recognizing that we do not live in a functioning democracy, but rather in a corporate plutocracy, a government by, for, and of corporations. Decolonization means recognizing that neither technological progress nor increased GNP is good for the planet. It means recognizing that this culture is not good for the planet. Decolonization means internalizing the implications of the fact that this culture is killing the planet. It means determining that we will stop this culture from doing that. It means determining that we will not fail.
And this is just the absolute beginning of decolonizing. It is internal work that doesn't accomplish anything in the real world, but it makes all further steps more likely, more feasible, and in many ways more strictly technical.
Next, ask yourself what are the largest, most pressing problems you can help to solve using the gifts that are unique to you in all the universe. People sometimes ask why I write instead of blowing up dams, to which I reply that my only D in college was in quantitative analysis chemistry lab, meaning you don't want me anywhere near explosives. Some people have said I should be an organizer instead of a writer. These people have never seen my work space; if I can't keep track of my pens, how would I possibly keep track of anything more complex? Likewise, I've filed dozens of timber sale appeals, but it was a very laborious process for me; it took me twelve hours to do what others could do in two. And I write terrible press releases. I can, however, write books. Harness your gifts, and put them in the service of your landbase.
My third suggestion is to ask yourself: what do I get off on? One reason I don't burn out as an activist is that I love what I'm doing. I was out one day with a wetlands specialist. We were trying to stop a developer from ruining a forest. The specialist dug into the soil, rubbed some between his fingers, and compared the color to a chart, which would help him determine if these were wetlands. I asked, "Do you get off on this?" He laughed and said digging in dirt was his second favorite thing to do after playing with his dogs. I laughed too and said I wouldn't like to do that work. I, on the other hand, have condemned myself to a life of homework: I get off on trying to figure out, for example, the relationship between perceived entitlement, exploitation, and atrocity.
My next suggestion is to make protecting the land where you live-and by extension the rest of the natural world, since protecting the land where you live will be insufficient to protect anadromous fish, migratory songbirds, or anyone in a world being burned alive by global climate change-the most important thing in your life. That may sound drastic, but we're talking about life on the planet here. There can be nothing more important than this.
So, Derrick, what exactly do you want us to do?
I want you to make the time to find what or whom you love-whether it's salmon, sturgeon, a patch of forest, survivors of domestic violence, your own indigenous tradition, migratory songbirds, coral reefs, or Appalachian mountaintops-and I want you to dig in and defend your beloved with your life, and, if necessary, with your death. I want for your actions to positively contribute to the health and defense of the planet. I want for you to figure out how to make it so the world-the real, physical world-is a better place because you were born, and because you lived here.
All of this leads to the point, which is, put simply, to do something. Several years ago I was giving a talk to several hundred people about bringing down civilization. The audience was excited. The atmosphere was like a rock concert. I suddenly stopped and asked, "How many of you have ever filed a timber-sale appeal?" Four or five. "How many have worked on a rape crisis hotline?" Ten women. "How many have done indigenous support work?" Three or four. And so on. It's all well and good to talk about the Great Glorious Revolution, but what are you doing right now?
The big dividing line is not and has never been between those who advocate more or less militant forms of resistance, or between mainstream and grassroots activists. The dividing line is between those who do something and those who do nothing.
Do something.
That's what I want you to do. That's what the anadromous fish and the Appalachian mountaintops want you to do too.

100 Comments so far
Show AllTry Peace and Desistance!
Derrick Jensen, Folks! Want to save the mountaintops AND the wetland valleys below? Simply have ENFORCED the 1985 DEADLINE of the Clean Water Act’s preamble to have ELIMINATED such pollution, a QUARTER CENTURY AGO, instead TODAY!
"It means re-examining premises and stories this culture handed down to you."
"Do something".
Derrick Jensen writes, but has he also "re-examined" this cultures habits and changed?
When we know it takes 11 times more energy to create animal protein than grain protein (Am. Journal of Clinical Nutrition), are we letting go of our bad habits and passing up on the cheeseburger?
98% of soy crops and 756 million tons of grain and corn per year are fed to farmed animals.
Global rainforests produce 40% of the oxygen we breathe; the rainforest used to be 14% of the earth, now it is 6%.
Our demand for beef has cleared and burned South and Central American rainforests, losing 2.4 acres per second.
Are we ready to drop our emotional attachment to meat-eating and go vegan for the health of our water, air, land and our own?
Are we environmentalists all doing our part or just writing and complaining?
I eat meat that grazes on pastures only a state or two away.
Or, that is my eventual goal. I still eat meat when I eat out at restaurants, and I doubt that is locally and sustainably raised. But whenever I cook meat, it's local and fed stuff that people can't eat.
The International Society for Ecology and Culture:
http://www.isec.org.uk/
Indeed, resistance is the best cure/preventative for depression!
------------
Just so we keep in mind the alternative, Douglas Adams says (yes he still says it):
--
HOW TO LEAVE THE PLANET
1) Phone NASA (tel. 0101 713 483 0123). Explain that it's very important that you get away as quickly as possible.
2) If they do not cooperate, then try to get someone at the White House (tel. 0101 202 456 1414) to bring some pressure to bear on them.
3) If you don't get any joy out of them, phone the Kremlin (tel 0107 095 295 9051) and ask them to bring a little pressure to bear on the White House on your behalf.
4) If that too fails, phone the Pope for guidance (tel. 010 396 6982).
5) If all these attempts fail, flag down a passing flying saucer and explain that it's vitally important that you get away before your phone bill arrives.
--
Worth your time:
http://www.fatalharvest.org/
http://www.alternativeradio.org/programs/NORH003.shtml
This certainly comes off as a lot of hot air, and tons of patting yourself on the back. Being quirky and talkative and bursting with ideas about this and that are great, but actually doing something about it is another.
You're right, no need to carry weapons in the traditional sense. But a bottle of corn syrup can do wondrous things to the engine of bulldozer and if the equipment required to remove the mountain top keeps getting sabotaged, it gets more and more expensive to remove the mountain top. If armed guards are required round the clock to protect the machines, it gets more expensive. If union workers want to organize the armed guards, it gets more expensive still.
We have moved past the point of passionate letters to the editor, signed petitions, and street theater. We need to hit these guys where it hurts the most: in the wallet. Only then we might be able to see some changes.
Treesitting on a MTR site is far more expensive for the coal companies than sabotaging a bulldozer. Every day they can't blast, they lose a ton of money.
"I want you to make the time to find what or whom you love." A foundation of great wisdom.
THis is the way to say it. Wow. I can't wait to hand this one out... HIs explaination of
"Decolonize your hearts and minds. Decolonizing is the process of breaking your idenity with and loyalty to this culture-industrial capitalism-and more broadly civilization-and remembering your identification with the real physical world, including the land where you live."
Excellent I can just see some of the people reading this and how there minds will expand with understanding when they do... BUT, many of them will resist anyway. They will revert back to the need to keep following the dollar, thinking they are being"responsible". They'll say,' how can I do what he suggests? I have to work at my job and keep my house and my car to go to work... I have to ... and on and on, saying to themselves that they will be ridiculed for dropping out of society.
I know, because I feel the same way to an extent. Being married I have to make decisions with some one - who does not care so much, not as I do, about the depth of our problem. But, I have been able to make some real changes.
WE have our chickens and a big garden. I just need to find a job that is not so far away. In other words, it's the way one lives their daily life that counts. Seperating from their ingrained-in doctinated lifesyle is what's necessary.
It's funny, years ago- 1977 when I first started studying astrology, I also began studying nutrition. At that point I gave up red meat and about a year later, chicken. Haven't had either since. I do eat fish, but not very often.
That's me.
Finely some one preaching the "get out and do something" line
so,
Be the change you want to see in the world
If you are anti war, volunteer with a NGO that supports reconstruction and rehabilitation of a war torn land. You do not have to go there, maybe just help with their websight or answer some phones for them. If nothing else send them the cost of your breakfast for a week. each month, (about 21 bucks)
If you are green, well when you go for a walk take a bag with you and fill it with peoples trash that is blowing in the street.
Walk or ride a bike to work
grow your own food (at least some of it)
go solar
smile at babies (might not bring world peace but it does make You feel good)
If you are anti-war close a recruiting station.
If you are green close a coal plant.
And how are we to do this?
Maybe set up a fund to match the handout the gov gives to the families of soldiers when they sign up.
And don;t switch on the heater or lights.
put on a jacket, or sweater in the house
there are lots of simple ways to be green
The most important thing is: 2 offspring, maximum. No matter how much one recycles and cuts back on consumption, adding more people to the world at the current rate will negate any gains. It has been calculated that strict adherence to the 2 children rule would bring the world population down to about one tenth of the current figure in something like 220 to 250 years. 600 million people may have a chance at occupying the planet indefinitely; 6.7 billion+ have no chance at all. The transition from a population-growth economy to a population-decline economy is going to take a considerable rethinking and reorientation of values and systems. It won't be easy, but it is the only survival opportunity for our species and for millions of others that are our fellow passengers on spaceship Earth.
2 is too many.
Gaia can support about 1 billion people, TOTAL. Current world population is about 6.5 billion and growing. All the bellyaching about carbon emmissions and restitution funds is garbage. NO ONE at Copenhagen was ready to suggest that we take a thirty year break from producing babies. WorldWide. Every country. Enforced.
But that's a bare minimum of what it will take to save our species.
DEPOPULATION is the only answer and NO ONE can face it.
All your vegetarian, utopian, self-sacrifice don't mean sh!t if you have two kids.
But don't worry, Once Gaia has wiped us off, the rock will still be spinning and bacteria and viruses will use the organic matter of our corpses to start evolution over, maybe with a better result next time.
We just proved that the international community is incapable of facing this monumental threat, NOBODY will move to fix the basic problem. The Human Race is doomed by a self-inflicted wound.
Let it burn.
Enjoy the Solstice.
" take a thirty year break from producing babies. WorldWide. Every country. Enforced."
The "Reproductive Rights" people are going to have a problem with that.
Not to mention the "Get your government out of my Medicare!" people who don't care about women's rights.
"Get your government out of my Medicare!"
A reference, of course, to potential cuts in the program.
Perhaps in hindsight. But given how hysterically idiotic most of the town hall protesters' complaints where, I doubt that's what he meant.
Oh yes, almost all of them don't know that Medicare is a government program, right? That's what Keith and Rachel want you to think.
It would be a mistake to dismiss them all as idiots, and you should not base your assessment on cherry picked sound bites and video.
I've seen more than sound bites...I've seen the chain letters they swear by, the false Heritage Foundation talking points they're sent, some interviews of them. They were nearly all very misinformed about what's in the bill.
"I've seen more than sound bites..."
There is no reasonable evidence suggesting that "Hands off my Medicare" means that those saying that don't know it's a government program. Keith and Rachel know that just as well, but are completely disingenuous as usual when they instead latch on to that idea. Dismissing the opposition as idiots is a political loser for anyone doing it. The Republicans already stand to gain big in 2010, this tactic will only increase the dimensions of that.
"They were nearly all very misinformed about what's in the bill."
*Which* bill? There are all kinds of ideas floating around, and everything is still on the table. They are making huge and sweeping changes to a significant part of the economy in the middle of the night, and you naively think of the problem as one of being "informed about the bill".
I am not sure if it was the same protester, but at least one Democratic Rep. tried to explain that Medicare was a government program to a senior citizen at his or her town hall and was not believed. The misinformation out there is unbelievable.
Whichever bill is being debated in Congress, of course. Just last week, a caller on a talk radio show still thought that the House version allowed the government access to your bank account to pay for your medical care. This was among the first myths about the bills to be debunked way back in the summer.
And uh, it's sort of Congress' job to "make huge and sweeping changes". Last I checked, they have the power to write our nation's laws. The rest of your statement there is simply rhetoric designed to make it seem like what Congress is doing is unseemly, it's being used by Fox News and the GOP nearly every time they talk about it.
"I am not sure if it was the same protester,"
One. I'd grant you one or a hundred, sheesh. Out of thousands. The point is that your belief that "hands off" refers to a general belief by seniors that Medicare is some private company is sloppy thinking on your part.
"Whichever bill is being debated in Congress"
How many of them have there been? Average length in pages? Consequences intended. implied or otherwise?
"And uh, it's sort of Congress' job to "make huge and sweeping changes". "
And if they do they'll be out in less than a year, and Republicans will be in the majority.
Hmm, it would be a total of 7 bills now, wouldn't it? 3 House Committee bills plus the final one that they passed, 2 Senate Committee bills plus the one being worked on now. Then of course once this is passed, there will be the conference version. That's how our weird system works.
And do you really think huge and sweeping changes aren't needed? I'm not saying this health care bill is good, but single payer healthcare would be a huge and sweeping change, one that probably everyone on here (minus you, maybe) supports.
I'm sure the Dems have more to fear from passing BS or not doing anything than actually getting useful changes accomplished.
"And do you really think huge and sweeping changes aren't needed?"
Not all rolled up in one bill, no. Pre-existing conditions is a problem for some. Debate that problem and the solutions and pass a bill on that. Same with malpractice lawsuits, interstate insurance markets, those with no coverage, etc. There is no reason to roll it all up in one bill to pass in the middle of the night. Doing so *guarentees* a bad bill by muddying the water. Identify discrete problems and address them.
That's not a bad idea, but after a while people might get some sort of awareness fatigue if different bills to address problems in a certain sector have to keep coming.
Of course, HR 676 would be far better, only 20-something pages and it addresses just about everything :-)
Well I guess we come to agree somewhat on something. OK.
Well I guess we come to agree somewhat on something. OK.
Why should there have been video on them AT ALL? These were just local gatherings, just like a school board meeting or a political koffee klatch. But the corporate media was commanded from on high to cover these events big-time, to bolster the political rabid right-wing angle/talking points on health care reform, that "the people" did not want it and that it was "socialist" medicine. That was the Fox and corporate MSM Official Spin, amd they sent 'reporters' out to get THAT.
The absolute reverse of this can be observed when the corporate MSM Spin on the millions upon millions marching against the start of the Bush-Iraq War was that these protesters didn't exist and after all surely didn't matter, unlike the relative handfuls of yellers at them town-hall-meetins that mattered enormously. Just like the corporate MSM Official Spin on the Seattle-WTO protests were that the protesters were just a bunch of vandals and leftist jerks with no point, and that the noble businessmen of the WTO were doing the work of the gods.
Well, looking back, it turns out that the millions of marchers were CORRECT and that the protesters in Seattle were absolutely right. But not for the NeoCons and their supporters controlling the corporate MSM, then and now.
And no, certainly not all the town-hall people are idiots. But surely the town-hall right-wing yellers have amazingly proven, just in the brief moments they were able to display, that they are DEFINITELY IDIOTS.
"The absolute reverse of this can be observed when the corporate MSM Spin on the millions upon millions marching against the start of the Bush-Iraq War "
Changing the subject.
Quotable words from CV: powerful, no-BS writing. But what is our species? And why should it be worth saving?
Is Isaac Asimov a member of the same species to which Oral Roberts apparently belongs?! How can Aldous Huxley be classified as an example of homo sapiens if homo sapiens is also represented by the Pope (any pope) or by George Bush or by your local Christian or Muslim fundamentalist morons?
Some--only some, only very few--human beings are worth saving, are worth the tremendous sacrifice it will now take to prolong the history of the accidental species we have become after yet another asteroid demolished the planet 65 million years ago and made room for something other than dinosaurs and the life forms that nobody knows anything about and cares much less.
If we must make such sacrifice, we also need to make sure whom we are supposed to save. I, for one, am not going to save the planet so that human monkeys like Bush, or Roberts, or other religious/political/corporate and other lunatics can continue to live.
Indeed, as CV said: "let [the human race] burn."
Yikes! Oh, please. Words of wisdom from CV? It's almost ALL BS, Konrad.
I see only cynical short-sightedness.
And where are the facts to support the 1 billion people maximum concept? Nothing like pulling figures out of one's ass to accommodate myopic apathy.
Population is only a problem because we have an economic system where 1% control as much as the bottom 90% COMBINED.
Population is only a problem when we (as Americans) invest (roughly) 57 cents of every tax dollar into modern warfare technology, the sole purpose of which is to KILL people (if necessary) and control their resources (ultimately).
Population is only a problem because people are (in general) undereducated, or confined to societies where women are looked upon as second-class citizens.
Finally, population is a problem to those that buy into the fear-induced concept of 'scarcity' (Malthus) and are unable to THINK CRITICALLY about exactly what that means and from where it comes (the ruling oligarchy).
I apologize to those who have seen similar rants from me. But until we change this meme, I fear that we (as a species) are indeed doomed!
Da Vinci conceived of incredible inventions centuries before they became commonplace. How did he do it? By observing NATURE. Nature shows us how to live in an infinitely regenerative ecosystem. Unfortunately, we believe we are 'above' Nature and not 'a part' of Nature. Our biggest failing is to recognize the interconnectedness of all Life on this planet.
And where are the facts to support the 1 billion people maximum concept? Nothing like pulling figures out of one's ass to accommodate myopic apathy.
-----------------------------
There've been plenty careful estimates of Earth's carrying capacity, and you can find them with a simple search.
1G is on the high side, if all people are to have equally provided lives, as of course justice demands. The real number is probably between 100M and 500M. If we want a healthy planet, then (according to Lovelock, who has thought about the problem for about 50 years) at least 1/3 of the fertile surface has to be reserved to Earth's own use, for trees principally. Another third needs to be allocated to habitat for non-forest-dwelling non-humans. That leaves not more than a third of Earth's fertile land for all human purposes.
"There've been plenty careful estimates of Earth's carrying capacity"
That one should be "careful" is not really the only aspect of the problem. See below.
"and you can find them with a simple search."
That was a good idea, I used the terms "earth capacity human estimate" without quotes and found this near the top:
"http://www.sustainablescale.org"
"/ConceptualFramework"
"/UnderstandingScale/MeasuringScale"
"/CarryingCapacity.aspx"
From the link:
"There have been a large number of published estimates for the human carrying capacity of the earth; they range from a low of one half billion people to a staggering 800 billion. Many of these estimates are more ideologically based than determined by scientific principles2. These exercises demonstrate the complexity of developing useful estimates of the human carrying capacity of the planet, and the limitations of using the methodology which has been successful with non-human species."
And:
""…carrying capacity is determined jointly by human choices and natural constraints. Consequently, the question, how many people can the Earth support, does not have a single numerical answer, now or ever. Human choices about the Earth's human carrying capacity are constrained by facts of nature which we understand poorly. So any estimates of human carrying capacity are only conditional on future human choices and natural events." Joel Cohen"
Yes, and if you'd followed up by examining the various estimates and their bases, you would see that the most responsible ones --the ones without religion driving them-- are the low ones.
If you'd looked at the assumptions that guided those lower estimates, you'd've seen that most of them are still too high, predicated on a world that does not need to stop planetary overheating.
"Yes, and if you'd followed up by examining the various estimates and their bases, you would see that the most responsible ones --the ones without religion driving them-- are the low ones. "
And now that you positively asserted the above, the onus is now on *you* to "follow up" and demonstrate the truth of your assertion. If you could have done that, I think you would have as part of this post, so the ball is in your court. Thanks in advance.
Sorry, I'm not playing that game. This is well-known information, so you are obligated to deal with your own ignorance.
It's not "that" game, it's the *only* game, called Logical Argument. The rules have been clear for centuries. The onus is on one who makes a claim to justify the claim. Here are a couple links to help you with the concept:
"http://www.nizkor.org"
"/features/fallacies"
"/burden-of-proof.html"
"http://www.infidels.org"
"/library/modern/mathew"
"/logic.html#shifting"
Out of your ass. One day you will have the sense to thank me.
The only one playing for points here is you. And I don't do anyone's homework for them. Either do your own homework, or stay ignorant.
" And I don't do anyone's homework for them."
Translation: Your original claim was utter BS. OTOH, when I stated the principles of Burden of Proof I backed them up. You'll thank me one day, but you don't know the rules at this point so I suggest you read up on them. You can't just make them up to suit yourself. Start with the two links I posted.
From EATING FOSSIL FUELS, OIL, FOOD AND THE COMING CRISIS IN AGRICULTURE by geologist Dale Allen Pfeiffer: "... we have already appropriated all of the prime agricultural land on this planet: all that remains is a small percentage of marginal lands and those are areas- deserts, mountains, polar regions- that are completely unsuitable. As a result, biological diversity- the underpinning of life on the planet- has been diminished nearly to the breaking point.
Even without considering energy depeltion, (or global warming) our agricultural system is ready to collapse. Yet, the abundance of cheap food given to us by the Green Revolution has resulted in an exponential population boom...Without the cheap, abundant supply of fossil fuels that has made possible the industrialization of agriculture, and that has allowed an explosion in food production at an energy deficit of ten to one, has the human population exceeded the carrying capacity of the planet? And if so, by how much?
The amount of solar energy that can actually be harnessed through photosynthesis is called the photosynthetic capability... At present, nearly 40 percent of all land-based photosythetic capability has been appropriated by human beings. In the United States, agriculture diverts more than half of the (photosynthetic capability). We have taken over all the prime real estate on this planet. The rest of the biota is forced to make due with what is left.
Plainly this is one of the major factors in species extinctions and ecosystem stress... Mario Giamietro and David Pimental postulate that a sustainable food system...(will) place the maximum US population for a sustainable national economy at 200 million." And Walter Youngquist's Post-Petroleum Paradigm indicates that for sustainability, the US population should be 100 million and the Earth's human population should be 2 billion. Oil has covered up and multiplied the extent of the problems. From Dale Allen Pfeiffer.
So merrily off the cliff we go. Denialists leading the charge. Human lemmings.
Now, we must try to find solutions for our current 7 billions nonetheless. But to say population growth does not matter is severely wrong, dangerous, and criminal, as this will only escalate the problems, when we in fact need negative population growth. For any hope of a better world. To save one from starvation that then makes ten more starving mouths that need saving makes no sense. In the past, nature was the killingly cruel birth-control ex post facto, that we in the last hundred years have humanely defeated with technology and oil. But we still must remain within the boundaries of nature. Or be totally whacked by nature as a species.
But my guess is that a terrible global war is coming. For no other reason but to see who survives. The living and the dead. No good or bad side, no right or wrong side. Just amorality. Just lebensraum. As long as we have the sociopathic and greedy in power. And because, in general, humans today seem to be unable to cooperate, and unable to understand, and unable to believe there is anything they, as individuals, can do... about anything. So just don't think about it.
"But to say population growth does not matter is severely wrong,"
Thanks anyway. *I* never said anything like this. I was responding much more specifically to the idea that an estimate of the carrying capacity of the earth can possibly have much meaning as any sort of scientific standard. Another poster seems to think so, and that their favorite estimate is scientific and lacks political bias. I say BS to that it, and it remains on them to demonstrate otherwise.
Thank you Mairead. It's been a long time since I read Gaia and I've heard many different numbers bandied about. 1 Billion seems to be the median among the clear-eyed estimates. And many people feel that we go critical at about 12 billion. War, Famine and Plague, those are the choices, maybe in combination, fun times.
We are a Virus in Sneakers. We have been a very successful species in propagating our genes. Too successful, like a virus that overwhelms the Immune system and eventually saturates and kills it's host.
Happened before, will happen again.
Tonight is the longest night, stay close to your loved ones.
"1 Billion seems to be the median among the clear-eyed estimates. "
Do you have a good example, and reasons as to why it is "clear eyed"? Thanks in advance.
"1 Billion seems to be the median among the clear-eyed estimates. "
Do you have a good example, and reasons as to why it is "clear eyed"? Thanks in advance.
When you're on the escape rocket with Tom Arnold and Rosie O'Donnell you'll know your fate...
Be the change you found in the couch!