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With Friends Like These: Wal-Mart, Health 'Reform’ and Obama’s 'Public Option’
All you need to really know about the Obama health "reform" initiative is that it is being supported by retail giant Wal-Mart.
Wal-Mart, a corporation that was built on the philosophy of treating workers like dirt (the company famously locks its employees inside its buildings at night, forces workers who have checked out of their shifts to continue to serve customers, off the clock, if they are asked for help on their way out of the store, has bitterly resisted offering any health benefits, and has one of the worst records of labor law violations of any company in the country), is now signing on as an endorser of the Obama health reform effort, saying:
"We believe now is the time for action on this vital issue. We commend the leadership of elected officials who are committed to enactment of reform, and we appreciate the commitment to inclusion and transparency which has been present thus far.
"We are entering a critical time during which all of us who will be asked to pay for health care reform will have to make a choice on whether to support the legislation. This choice will require employers to consider the trade off of agreeing to a coverage mandate and additional taxes versus the promise of reduced health care cost increases."
Why would a company like Wal-Mart, with its Paleolithic attitude towards its own workers, be supporting a plan that, at least ostensibly, claims to be trying to provide health coverage for the working poor?
There are several answers. First of all, from a competitive point of view, Wal-Mart probably figures that if there is an employer mandate to provide health benefits, with a hefty fine for those that refuse to comply, the company is in a better position to provide a minimal plan than many of its competitors, like K-Mart or Target. Second, the company's executives may figure that the so-called "public option" will offer it a cheaper alternative, subsidized by the taxpayer, than existing private insurance plans. This is one valid point of attack from the right on the Obama plan: that a government-run alternative to private insurance would end up being a dumping ground for companies that didn't want to pay for private insurance coverage plans for their workers.
Finally, Wal-Mart probably figures that the Obama plan is the best way to avoid a move to a single-payer system ala Canada's, which inevitably would be heavily financed by corporate taxes.
There are few giant corporations in America that are worse than Wal-Mart when it comes to employee relations and treatment of workers, so when you see a company like that coming out in support of any government program—particularly one that is as critically important to the lives of ordinary working people as health care—you should immediately question the value and the intent of that plan.
The same point can be made about the so called "savings" being offered by various segments of the medical-industrial complex in deals being struck with and touted by the White House (the pharmaceutical industry has promised to cut drug costs to the government and the public by $80 billion over 10 years, while the hospital industry has agreed to offer savings of another $150 billion over the same period). While these so-called savings are mostly bogus sleight-of-hands (for example, much of the "savings" being offered by the hospital industry consists of reduced government compensation for the treatment of the uninsured in emergency rooms, but of course, if the Obama plan is passed, and insurance coverage is offered to most Americans, there would be far fewer uninsured patients in hospitals anyway), the real reason these big industry sectors are coming on board the Obama plan is that they see it as a way to avoid, or push off to the future, a single-payer system that would dictate all their fees and prices.
The point is, if the very groups that have created the massively expensive and exclusionary health care system that we have today in America, and that for years have bitterly resisted any efforts to seriously reform it and to make it open to all, regardless of income or medical condition, are suddenly endorsing a plan that purports to be a real, progressive reform, we have to question the premise: that the reform really is real or progressive.
And the plan being promoted by President Obama and by the Democrats in Congress is not real or progressive. It is a plan that will further enrich the health care industry, that will not stop the continuing rise in health care costs, that will still leave millions of people without access to quality medical care, and that will end up costing taxpayers more than they are already paying.
The proof is the support for this plan being offered by the likes of Wal-Mart and the big medical industry players.
- Posted in
56 Comments so far
Show AllDave's right. If we end up with a Bauchus or Schumer plan were fucked. The ONLY plan that will actually lower costs is a Single Payer plan. DC knows this and it's why it's dead on arrival. Were much more likely to get a so called Reform that creates another set of Special to big to fail Ins. Corps. that manage to get their greedy paws even deeper into our wallets. DC is so corrupt that Crony capitalism is the order of the day for both parties now.
Sioux Rose
Yes, Mr. Lindorff is correct. The Obama administration is following its own playbook which consistently rewards insiders and large corporations at the expense of the public. It utilizes effective PR, a whole new style from that of cowboy Bush & co, to provide the ILLUSION that something is being done, the best minds engaged, to improve the quality of life for citizens. Bah humbug! The way this administration enabled the banksters at the expense of homeowners and citizens says it all, added to the DISGUSTING continuation of policies of imperial acquisition aided and abeted by the dark tools of violent power so heavily invested in by our spiritually-bankrupt nation, that is to say, by its policymakers cum leaders. A different Domino theory has come home, and it is unraveling a great many elements necessary to sustaining a viable fabric of life. Eventually out of inevitable collapse (how much weight can be placed upon the shoulders of workers?) something ELSE will emerge; and that is when all those who broke away from the dying carcass of a system awash in graft and EVIL corruption will become the wayshowers to survivors who wish to catch up. This IS the transition, and it must be that the corporations, acting as pharaohs, are making life increasingly unbearable. There comes a time where weapons or otherwise, the citizens gather together like a gigantic organic wave, and throw over the chariots of their overseers. I think we are in the era where that drama is about to unfold.
P.S. Hello from the Florida Keys, the lands of light and enchantment.
Raise a glass at the Crack'd Conch for me.
Sioux Rose
UBREW: Just had dinner (a wealthy client's treat) and was surprised at the number of people now partying on Duval Street. It would not even seem as if a recession/depression had touched this town? There is a LOT of $ in the Florida Keys. Of course Mother Nature is the final arbiter as to the duration of properties here, and thus their ultimate values. Mobile homes on shoddy canals still are priced at $345,000! Insane. In any case, life works better for me when I can travel and be reminded that this planet sustains a phenomenal number of diverse lifestyle possibilities. the wine is flowing! Might as well enjoy before the (term of) Grapes of Wrath replaces it.
Sioux, I don't think Obama and Bush are alone. It is our entire cavalry of political elites that are trained to stand up for capitalism. Do you know where most of them come from? I posted this response below in another topic but I feel that this might be pertinent here.
Capitalism is filled with plenty of double standards. Blue collared workers get punished for the same actions that top white collared leaders get rewarded for. I've heard arguments that bailing out Wall Street is not capitalism. Actually, it is because the double standards are consistent. In capitalism, profits matter more than anything else. Therefore, bailing out will be reserved for only those who have a history of making the biggest profits. This is the kind of training most elitist politicians grew up with and since they feel rewarded for thinking that way and are often rewarded for it, they will do anything to keep this going regardless of the rising casualties among the working class. It's either get rich or get out. It's as if God is money or something.
Bennett Miller
Shreveport, LA
PS: My wife grew up not too far from the FL Keys. She moved to Shreveport 12 years ago before she and I met. How long have you been in the Keys? If more than 12 years, how is the Keys doing nowadays compared to before?
Sioux Rose
BENN: I lived in Key West from l986-l995. I now live in North Florida where it's far less expensive. I drive down (not an easy drive) 2 or 3 times a year, as now.
I remember a reporter astutely commenting once our Supreme Court played decider to place a fool like Bush, Jr. into the oval office that now no force would stand up as a counterbalance to business interests. Sure, Reagan played a part in making greed the new proud basis for self-esteem; and Clinton derailed labor with NAFTA. (Nor did the relaxing of the Glass-Steagall Act or the deregulation of the F.C.C prove particularly helpful to any notion of an informed citizeny with its fiscal interests remotely protected.) Then along came Bush boy, and now Obama, putting a Prozac face on things as it is ALL coming asunder. It's a wreck in slow motion, but I am truly amazed how few get it. I bring up the Truth with persons, but do not want to be perceived as a lunatic or prophet of doom, so I have to be very gentle.
Money is its own illusion after all. It is only a symbol of wealth or worth; but with that being said, the printing of money by our darling FED has to have an impact on both perception and the perceived value of things. Wall St and its alchemists have done to money what Monsanto and the Frankenfood bio-tech masters have done to Mother Nature's seed supply. In both instances a kind of Pandora's Box has been opened, and those first to reach in and grab the profits have left not only a hoax behind, but dangers we are yet to grapple with on a collective scale.
In other words capitalism is one thing, but the unregulated kind is like letting sharks loose in community pools and then inviting your neighbors' children to jump in and party. WE are there!
I've seen the cultural attitude in Northern FL and if I remember, a lot of fundies there. I have heard and witnessed a lot of debating in FL for and against socialism. Thanks to the Cuban immigration influx, the anti-socialism mentality is most likely high. I don't know exactly how hard-boiled conservative it is in Northern FL but I'm guessing it's just like LA.
I posted a response to your response to Beforkids on money and the obsession by the poor schmucks. I would love to tell them that money's nothing but an illusion and see how they react. I don't know much about the frankenfoods but when I see the poor eat, it ain't locally grown food. It's always something processed with a wrapper. Why a poor person wants to eat another big mac and a candy bar is beyond me. Now, if I understand this correctly, money and food have been altered to be dangerous and yet powerfully seducitve, correct? If that's the case, is this why it's normal to find at least one restless customer hollaring for their food when I do go out in addition to the poor schmucks screaming for holding on to their money? I mean, I'm patient with food and money and yet most of these poor schmucks act like juveniles about it and they don't even want to share.
Bennett Miller
Shreveport, LA
P.S.: My wife wanted to revisit the FL Keys but she lost her job due to a serious illness and I had to go through 9 months of helping her out and working simultanously. Sometime next month when I think she'll be ready to go, I'll be happy to take her there for a visit. I hope that gets her to be a little romantic and into sex since I think her previous job, stressful as can be, has sapped her out physically and mentally. I'm sorry to hear it's more expensive out there but I can't be too surprised. But if fewer people are able to take vacations, will the costs of living go down there?
I also think Willie Logan was treated very badly by the FL Democratic Party for trying to be pro-populist. I'll bet you can recall that year 1998 when the party melted down big time with the racial rift in the Democratic Party coming from Buzz Ritchie's engineering of the Willie Logan ouster. He even went on the national media and complained that Willie Logan was not raising enough cash and was too liberal. A friend of mine who used to live in Gadsden County before moving to Shreveport told me about this. I always wondered how Logan was treated by everyone after Jeb got his seat in 1998.
While Obama has turned out to be a corporate stooge just like his predecessors, it's sad to see that he will actually accelerate the demise of the working and middle class. The only 'public option' that has a chance of working, is the option of permanently putting to rest the criminal organization known as the medical industrial complex. Instead we see before us a plan that will only further enrich this evil cabal of drug pushers & insurance scam artists reinforced by our Wall Street inspired media rhetoric.
In addition to the sham known as 'healthcare refrom', we have to sit by and watch military spending increase, a surge of troops in Afghanistan, no let up in the prison industrial complex and obscene public bailouts of the same corporate culprits who choose and present our elected officials to us. "Not to worry!" they tell us, as more pressing issues like Michael Jackson's 'memorial' or Air McNair's sudden murder-suicide is what the public craves for.
I think all of those Obama Mania crazed fans are starting to wake up to the fact that Obama won't deliver his promised change, but if the alternative iin the next election is just another mainstream party, corporate friendly stooge, most Americans better get used to perpetual sacrifice. There are still a lot of right wing idealogues out there who believe that we can turn the screws even further on the bottom 80% in name of 'capitalism', 'globalization', 'the war on terror' or any other convenient moniker the corporate noise machine employs.
Health Care Reform should be a defining moment in our collective history, but instead we are witnessing a barrage of BS in which the majority of elected officials have shown their corporate allegiance trumps the public interest everytime. Objective journalism is nowhere to be found on the six O'clock news, the front pages of our newspapers or the magazine rags that pass themselves off as neutral and unbiased sources of critical information. The so-called grass roots movement has done nothing to date to counter this flagrant assault against democracy. Instead it has unknowingly reinforced the status quo by allying itself with the "new progressive left" that corporate America has carefully chosen for us.
A reader on my website (www.thiscantbehappening.net) made the excellent suggestion that if there is going to be a so-called "public option" in this so-called health care "reform" proposal, it should immediately be made the health plan for all federal employees, for our long-suffering veterans, and for all members of Congress. That would insure that such a plan would be, not a dumping ground for the poor, but a quality plan which would offer a genuinely better and more affordable alternative to the rip-off corporate insurance industry. As well, kicking off such a public insurance option with that many initial members, located all across the nation, would guarantee that the plan would have the numbers and political clout to negotiate or insist on good prices from private healthcare providers like doctors, hospitals, pharmaceutical and medical equipment firms.
Demanding that all federal employees, veterans and members of Congress be shifted over to coverage by the public option plan should be a non-negotiable point for any member of Congress calling him or herself a "progressive."
Dave Lindorff
www.thiscantbehappening.net
PS Sioux Rose, I hope you have a lifeboat if you're living on the Keys! They won't be around much longer.
"Demanding that all federal employees, veterans and members of Congress be shifted over to coverage by the public option plan should be a non-negotiable point for any member of Congress calling him or herself a "progressive."
OK, but count how many of them call themselves "progressive." The term is as toxic to these assholes as it was 5 years ago. Who besides Kucinich, Feingold, Barbara Lee, Lynne Woolsey, Tammy Baldwin and 4 or 5 others would risk being identified as a progressive? When maybe 1% of Congress might be called "progressive," a public option plan doesn't stand a chance.
Sioux Rose
DAVE: Thank you for caring. I happen to have a sailboat, but have proven a rather poor sailor. I visit the Keys due to having hosted my own live TV show here for more than 7 years. Since I reside in the Bible belt, we astrologers have to go where persons respect our work. I retain a loyal clientele here, and I love the beauty. I've noticed how well I do in places like Latin America & Asia, but America and too many Americans are blinded by a materialism that like an insistent cloud front disallows the capacity to perceive a higher "atmosphere."
Thank you for your articles and the time you devote to interacting with many of us on this site. I wish a few other authors were so generous!
P.S. The person I stay with lives in a home in a very elete part of Marathon. Her father purchased two lots for a song about 25 years ago. Now these properties, even with a tiny duplex, are valued (still) at a million a pop. My friend says she's glad there are so many Republicans who don't believe in global warming as it gives her time to still enjoy her property, and sell at a profit in the nick of time, seas rising-style.
Her property seems immune from storm surge. Other parts of the island have been impacted over the years, and my friends on Sugarloaf lost all their vehicles recently; but this property (which I stayed at during Hurricane Katrina as it brushed by) seems PROTECTED.
Oregoncharles
"Demands?" You of all people should know better than to expect your congress person to start making demands.
For your public support for Obama - over Ralph or Cynthia - what "demands" did you put on Obama and the Democrats?
When the most "progressive" Americans are unwilling or unable to demand anything from their elected officials, what makes you think our sold out politicians will do otherwise?
Congress has just passed legislation to permit people in the United States to order lower-cost drugs from Canada over the Internet.
Whoopty-doo!
Allow me to clarify: Granted, I'm not a "half-full" type. But this strikes me as another lame, roundabout band-aid; it demonstrates that our feckless and corrupt elected misrepresentatives are unable or unwilling to come to grips with the health care crisis.
· Yr Obd't Servant
Interesting and telling isn't it, that the same people who libel the Canadian single-payer healthcare system, claiming (against all the evidence) it is a disaster for Canadians, are turning to it because it offers Americans the option of cheaper drugs (from the same companies that are stiffing us for them here!). This is the same hypocrisy that has US companies collectively lobbying against any single-payer plan here (via such organizations as the National Assn. of Manufacturers, the Chamber of Commerce and the Roundtable, as well as corporate-funded so-called "think tanks" like the American Economic Institute and the Heritage Foundation), while they enthusiastically back the Canadian plan through their Canadian subsidiaries.
Dave Lindorff
Visit Dave Lindorff's website at www.thiscantbehappening.net
There's a guy by the name of Samuel Lipari who has been fighting for an open auction style internet site for hospital supply. The existing government-created system is a closed, corrupt monopoly. A study by the GAO, Professor Sethi at Baruch College and Professor Elhague estimated that one member of the cartel, Novation, makes $5 Billion a year in fees. In theory, the profits of the group purchasing were to go back to the hospital members, but in fact the hospitals only get a small part back. Here's an area ripe for reform but no one even mentions it exists.
Also, if you look at companies like athenahealth, it was created specifically to take over doctor's office operations via the internet. It was created for the purpose of outsourcing to India. This is Obama's big savings by making medical records electronic. They are already as electronic as they need to be for ordinary purposes. But for sending one more industry overseas they need to be boxed up for the likes of Jonathan Bush.
And completely unrelated to the legal theft in the "care" industry" is the ever-growing component of organized crime. Robbing banks, pimping and dealing drugs is so last century. The private industry is becoming the pirate industry.
Before the election Lindorf was ridiculing Nader supporters. Now it appears, he is a born again Obama basher. He reminds me of the battered wife syndrome. No matter how many times he gets pummeled by his spouse, i.e. the Democratic Party, he always comes back for more.
I wonder if he ever considered recovery as an option to more of the same?
"Before the election Lindorf was ridiculing the Nader supports. Now he is a born again Obama basher."
Really? Ok, so I'm sure there are plenty like him. I was wise to vote for Nader last year after I felt more disaffected at Obama for changing to Republican positions issue after issue.
This article does somewhat reflect what you said. While he does criticize the establishment, he does so in a way that stifles further criticism by channeling our angst and grief away from its causes and into frustration with ourselves.
The majority of Americans suffer. Most of us are in debt to bankrupt institutions. Most of us who work do so for someone else, being paid less than the value of the work we do. Some of us can't find work, and it's not looking like that will get easier in the months ahead. How much food can you buy with no credit and no job? How much can you produce with no land of your own? Lindorff does not and never will understand the realities of being a working class American.
Bennett Miller
Shreveport, LA
Yo Bennett,
There's nothing more disgusting than some schmuck like you trying to have a penis size contest over who's more "working class." I don't know what sucky job you do for a living, but if it's working class, more power to you. It sure sounds like a sorry bunch of workmates, and for that you have my sympathy. But since you don't know squat about me, I'll put my working-class credentials as a semi driver, fork-lift operator, restaurant worker and organizer, groundskeeper, and reporter at a string of factory-like newspapers up against anything you want to dangle.
What makes comments like yours so pathetic is that they prove nothing. Karl Marx was no worker. Neither, for sure, was Fred Engels. Nor for that matter was Thomas Jefferson. They were , however, better revolutionaries than you'll ever be. In fact, your mode of argument makes me suspect that part of your difficulty in discussing things with your comrades on the shop floor is you don't know how to make one.
It all seems to be more about you.
Actually, the argument for single-payer is not about socialism at all. Single Payer is nothing more than the Medicare program--which just about every old person in America loves--extended to everyone. Doctors are still in private practice. Hospitals are still privately owned. Pharmaceutical companies still make the medicine. It's just that the government sets the rates that they all can charge, and makes those payments for us. You should be able to explain that to your colleagues without getting all worked up about your working class credentials. You might also ask them why, since Canadians have twice in a row elected a Conservative national government, and have a conservative government in charge in most provinces, those governments have not tried to ditch the country's province-run single-payer program? Obviously it's for the same reason the Brits, through the whole Thatcher era, never tried to toss out Britain's genuinely socialist National Health System: namely that the voters would have rebelled and tossed them all out on their asses if they'd tried, because they love those systems.
Try it. Maybe you won't get pied next time.
Dave
Visit Dave Lindorff's website at www.thiscantbehappening.net
Your first paragraph is completely offensive and I don't see how you expect others to take you seriously with that kind of an attitude.
Your second paragraph sounds like you're trying to compete with the famous writers and no, I never said it was about me. I'm actually trying to be helpful but the tone of your first two paragraphs don't sound much different from the schmucks I'm trying to reason with. My wife got ill and was laid off just like plenty of others and I love my wife a lot and would do everything I could to help her recover. Unfortunately, I can't do that to millions of others in the same boat as well and not all of them are lucky to get any assistance. That's why a government for the people is needed. As a strong and proud husband and family man who does not want others to suffer, I get very angry when our government sells us out and then your article contains some things which only rub salt on our wounds and that makes me even angrier. I ain't got the kind of luxuries you have to fly around the world. Besides, I love my wife to death and I ain't gonna fly around the world only to let her rot and die ! Get it ?
I'll give you credit on the last paragraph though mentioning Canada to them only triggers them to shout "commie" in my face.
Bennett Miller
Shreveport, LA
You need to get a life pal.
I've never "ridiculed" Nader supporters. I like Ralph. I simply said at the time that there was a chance that Obama could be pressured by his supporters to act the way Roosevelt, another conservative pro-Banker candidate, was pressured by HIS backers, to act in a progressive manner--something that one could not expect of "Bomb, Bomb Iran" McCain and his crazy sidekick.
I was wrong. Obama's a bust.
Big F***ing deal.
If I had endorsed Nader and voted for Nader, it wouldn't have made a bit of difference, though if a bunch of people had done the same in the right states, we'd how have McCain/Palin, would probably have already attacked Iran, and I guess that would all have been okay with you?
Dave Lindorff
Visit Dave Lindorff's website at www.thiscantbehappening.net
But Dave you are still making the the same excuse, "if I had endorsed Nader....blah blah....we'd have McCain/Palin.....blah blah." That in a nutshell is the problem. Vote for the tried and true BS democrats because "well jeepers, we might get someone really bad".
oBOMBa and the now filibuster proof corporate democrats ARE your worst fear!
Yeah, and in fact it's true. We might have.
But aside from that, I never said Obama WOULD be a progressive. I said if the people who voted for him worked to pressure him to be progressive, he MIGHT. As I said, I was wrong, but that hardly proves that it was wrong to propose that it might happen.
You see "rebelnow", nobody in November was going to elect any third party, but they might have elected a real fascist. That's something you have to, or ought to, consider. I have no regrets at all at not having McCain in the White House and Palin waiting for his cancer to act up.
Besides, if you're hoping to win any supporters over to the idea of abandoning the Democrats altogether--an idea I'm quite open to by the way--you should learn to be more welcoming to those like myself who are attacking Barack Obama, having seen him for what he is--an unalterable agent of Wall Street.
Just scoring points over and over by trying to tell us all how much cleverer you were for voting third party last November accomplishes nothing, and in most cases, will probably just annoy the rest of us.
Dave
Visit Dave Lindorff's website at www.thiscantbehappening.net
Dear Dave,
We are all stuck in a black and white, two-party ruling Duopoly that is only an illusion of choice, a system that is institutionally corrupt. This is a discourse trap as well.
For starters, I like the recommendations in the following book: "10 steps to repair American Democracy" by Steven Hill.
Look, I preferred Nader over Obama too, and Perot over the other two jokers. But a vote for Nader or Perot would mean nothing under our current system of two-party see-saw. You'd be throwing your vote away, and no amount of idealism can change the equation.
Until we get Instant Runoff Voting (preferential choice) we must vote for the lesser of two evils. see www.fairvote.org
Jack Lohman
http://MoneyedPoliticians.net
Oregoncharles
Dave Lindorff,
You're expecting congress to make "demands" but you're not willing to make some yourself?
You see, it's not so difficult to demand when you stop falling for the fear tactics - The Very Scary Republican! The Republican party's reputation was in the toilet. It was the perfect time to not just vote for a third party, but truly support one, write about the virtues of third party voting and your candidate of choice, etc. It could have been - at least - a very large collective demanding voice, which seems to be all we have left, since we're not willing or able to build this so-called "fire" over which we can hold his feet.
After the midterms, several years before Obama's campaign, you said you'd had it with the Democrats. You'd learned your lesson ... and then you refused to support Nader or McKinney. this will happen again, no doubt.
The duopoly doesn't care which party wins, it cares far more about maintaining control. As long as that works, the agenda will go forward. As for "taking over the Democratic Party," I'd have as much luck working my way up the corporate ladder at Walmart.
So, complain away on your website. When you decide to help us build that fire, let us know. The Green Party awaits your membership.
I do not think that the author gets it that our culture has been and still is addicted to Wal-Mart. Walmart is very smart and cunning and they will adjust only where they have to while still keeping their profits as high as they can. Remember the female discrimination lawsuit, labor abuse against imported Mexican workers, and pollution ? Walmart has gone out of its way to make it look like they're providing their employees better benefits in health care, a little wage increase, and even "going green". Walmart hasn't really changed much but like Obama they simply pretend to and then when no one is looking they slip back.
I would also like to add that capitalism itself is to blame. There are ways to be cunning and slick in pretending change while really changing nothing for the better. This is the core problem that must be seriously addressed. I posted this earlier but again I feel that this is pertinent. Sorry.
Capitalism is filled with plenty of double standards. Blue collared workers get punished for the same actions that top white collared leaders get rewarded for. I've heard arguments that bailing out Wall Street is not capitalism. Actually, it is because the double standards are consistent. In capitalism, profits matter more than anything else. Therefore, bailing out will be reserved for only those who have a history of making the biggest profits. This is the kind of training most elitist politicians grew up with and since they feel rewarded for thinking that way and are often rewarded for it, they will do anything to keep this going regardless of the rising casualties among the working class. It's either get rich or get out. It's as if God is money or something.
Bennett Miller
Shreveport, LA
Well, I disagree!
With the last two words, that is.
· Yr Obd't Servant
Did anyone else see an editorial on health care reform, using Wal-Mart as some kind of shining example of a corporation that has improved its treatment of workers? I can't remember what paper printed the original (Detroit maybe?), but there it was in my hometown paper today, stating that Wal-Mart supports employer-based health coverage, adding that more than half of their employees have health insurance (better than the national average). Then, earlier this week, CNN's Dana Bash reported on the Canadian health care system using the same BS Mitch McConnell has been spouting on the Senate floor, with stories of Canadians who were "denied" services by their "government-run" system. And there are ignorant Americans out there who soak this in, believing the rhetoric and propoganda, pretending that their overpriced insurance with its ever rising premiums, copays and deductibles, will really be there for them in their time of need.
NMLIB, I can't be surprised at all by this kind of nonsense against single payer being spouted about. My state of LA is in serious need of it and yet most people show their hick mentality against it which I posted separately in this thread. Hicks can throw pies at my face for speaking up for single payer but guess what? This nation is the biggest laughing stock for lack of single payer health care and it angers me even more now that I've seen what 9 months of having to save my ailing wife suddenly without insurance because she got laid off as a result of falling ill has resulted in.
Bennett Miller
Shreveport, LA
Trust me, the author gets it.
I've lived in Europe and in Asia, where, believe it or not, people are more aware of the basic idea that you can't trust businesses.
In China, when you buy something, you make the seller test it for you in the store before you take it home. How many people do that here.
It's true that most of the people who shop at Wal-Mart stores think those stores are great, even though they are bankrupting all the little businesses in the community. And if they're f***ing over the employees, so what?
But that isn't the point. The point is that even most of the people don't care about those workers, they are (with the exception of the evidently particularly brainwashed or braindead lot in your neck of the woods), aware that Wal-Mart's corporate interests with regard to health benefit policies don't coincide with theirs.
As for your dumbass co-workers, you should tell them to take a week's vacation in sunny Canada, and while there, ask around about the health system there. In fact, suggest they try something a little dangerous, like rock climbing, so they can twist an ankle or break a bone, and experience the treatment they get...
Given that Canada has for years had a conservative government, you might also ask them, if government run insurance is so bad, why has no one tried to do away with it in Canada in all these 36 years that they've had it?
DAVE
Visit Dave Lindorff's website at www.thiscantbehappening.net
Ok, so you've travelled around the world and have met even the poorest of the bunch who's a hell of a lot smarter and enlightened than the poor schmucks in this country. But don't you get it? People are addicted to Walmart like mad. Even my family can get restless about wanting to get something dirt cheap. I take them to a remaining small mom-and-pop store and show them something genuine made and then one of them always has to ramble "Looks good but we'll just get it at Walmart". I try to tell these poor schmucks about Walmart's bad practices and they froth at the mouth and hiss and yell "commie" in my face. Never mind that Walmart gets all its garbage from Communist China.
I'll be happy to ask them about Canada's system but only if I can find some darn way to get them to quit yelling "commie" every time I bring the issue up. And aren't the same insurance hooligans in this country trying to sabotage the health care system in Canada? If so, I'm even more determined to stay here and stand up to the hicks than run away.
Bennett Miller
Shreveport, LA
Have you ever thought of moving away from Shreveport? Even here in the brainwashed USA, there surely must be places a bit better than where you are. I can recommend a few places; but if you want more than that you and I both will have to move out of the country.
I have also lived and travelled abroad Dave,
In a short crude answer: if I want quality affordable health care and medicines, I will have to move away from the USA once again.
Even Conservative govts. in the UK have not advocated abolishing the NHS.
However as you know, no form of single-payer or meaningful reform is "on the table" here in the land of the free, so no worries for the folks in the insurance industry
I've long known it's important to observe who is coming out of these meetings with smiles on their faces. Now of course, we cam predict the outcome without that observation. Money goes to money. It's that simple.
The time feels ripe for a new political party, the Main Street Party. No social issues, just economic issues a majority of Americans agree on. Including no corporate money. We need to unhorse these two faces of the corporate party, the Democrats and Republicans. It's time for them to hit the ash heap.
Cygnus X1 makes excellent points posting on Robert Reich's article, but I don't think most of them could be starting points for the Main Street Party. I think we need to start with a few well accepted populist points (taking care to frame them as mainstream, not populist) and go from there. The public is upset and anxious, but stunningly uninformed. I think we need to stick with positions that 60% of them understand and support for starters.
It's easy to start a minor party if we do it one Congressional district at a time. Takes about 4300 valid signatures per district at present in Oregon, but some states could be draconian with their rules (I've heard horror stories). I will say the Secretary of State's office has been very helpful to me. My next step is a public meeting to get people working together. I believe that once we get a ball rolling it will gain momentum. Where better to start than Eugene Oregon? I once read that Eugene is a confluence point of cosmic energy. We can't just sit here and let ourselves be plundered. We need to fight back. There's a lot more of us than them. They may have the money, but we have the vote. That's still worth something, so far.
When the people fear their government there is tyranny,
when the government fears the people there is liberty.
~ Thomas Jefferson
Main Street Party? I can't even get people to sit down and listen to Green Party and Peace Party. They froth and hiss when I even mention that. What does this party consist of and what are the chances that I'll be able to bring it up without being shouted "commie" in my face?
Bennett Miller
Shreveport, LA
Benn, you won't get people to listen to the above parties. They have been demonized by the media, and they espouse divisive social issues. The Main Street Party takes no sides on social issues (too polarizing) and addresses only economic issues representing the interests of small businesses, small farms, and working Americans. It opposes big business controlling our economy and supports fully funded public education, subsidies for small farms instead of agribusiness, policies that support small business which after all are the major employers in our country, a fair taxation policy that takes the pressure off 95% of Americans. Our defense budget does not need to be larger than that of the rest of the entire world. If we lift the cap off Social Security it will be fully funded especially if we stop raiding the fund and stocking it with IOUs. That's our money going into it. Americans are shifting to the opinion that government should help people.
These are all populist positions supported by a majority of Americans, but due to media indoctrination, I avoid the word "populist", choosing to refer to them as mainstream ideas. Americans are appallingly misinformed and politically ignorant so the hill that needs to be climbed is steep. But every one I tell what single payer delivers and how it's paid for is enthusiastic about it. What is tragic is how few get to hear that. Fortunately things are getting so bad people are starting to look for an alternative to the corporate theft of our country. More and more people are leaving both parties. Right now the largest number of registered voters are Independents. I'm sure Obama will help that number to expand.
Here's a link to a fairly recent Rasmussen poll:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/ideology/55_of_americans_are_populist_7_support_the_political_class
You can highlight the whole thing and dump it onto your URL.
When the people fear their government there is tyranny,
when the government fears the people there is liberty.
~ Thomas Jefferson
Sioux Rose
KATHY: You know the symbol for not smoking? The circle with the X through it atop a cigarette? You should have a circle with a dollar sign and an X through it as YOUR logo... since the fiscal uncertainties (the vast majority engineered on purpose!) of our times create a basis for, as your strategy relates, uniting persons on mainly a menu of financial issues. (Or it could have a symbol of congress or the capital with that same line through it... signifying NO MORE CONGRESSIONAL BUSINESS as usual. Time to get the $/power out of politics and return at least some semblance of/and concern for the public's interest to the national policy agenda.)
"You should have a circle with a dollar sign and an X through it as YOUR logo"
I don't know how well that would work. I can't even get the poor schmucks who shout "commie" in my face when I bring up the need to spread the wealth to listen. They act like juveniles screaming "It's my money and I can do what I want with it. It's MINE MINE MINE commie !"
"Or it could have a symbol of congress or the capital with that same line through it... signifying NO MORE CONGRESSIONAL BUSINESS as usual."
Now that one I think they and I can easily agree on.
Bennett Miller
Shreveport, LA
The Main Street party as you've described it looks interesting. I don't know how many closed minded folks will listen but I'll have to see if this description doesn't trigger their restless minds to shout "commie" in my face again. I know that the GP and PP consist of social values but they harmless as far as the positions are concerned. I mean what's wrong with giving women their reproductive rights, some gun control, religious freedom, and likewise? They always complain about small businesses being destroyed by liberal policies when it's the rightwing policies that are doing the damage but when I ask them to describe those policies, not a word except maybe parroting Hannity but that's it. I can't tell if they hate or like big business but if they want to save small business, they're turning to the wrong people, the Republicans, to help them out. I'll be interested in checking out the Main Street Party though I might leave it to my wife since she doesn't plan on working for a while since she's close to recovering from her ailing illness after 9 months. Thanks.
Bennett Miller
Shreveport, LA
Another thought came up when I read another article on healthcare here. Sorry to post again but I felt that this one might also explain why Obama has no trouble doing what he's doing and he ain't alone.
The case against single payer health care insanity isn't just limited to Washington alone. A while back, I talked to one of my friends from work about single payer health care and she rambled "Oh big government care?". Everyone laughed like mad when they heard it. I tried to explain to her about it and yet she kept saying "Oh, it's nothing but commie care. Your ailing wife is recovering because you helped her, not big government." I explained to her that the burden of expense on one helping his/her ailing spouse is often high as it was in my case. Then she goes spouting some more nonsense about government "Government is not there to give you free health care. Government is supposed to defend this country and give us cheap oil. I want my oil cheap and I want it NOW !" As usual, the rest of the crowd acted so idiotic in their laughing and one old man even said "Stop being a f***ing commie sonny boy or take your sorry a** to another country ! We don't want no damn socialists here !" Laughter as always. I should have been trying to bail her out of trouble at work but the more mean and immature she sounded, the less I felt like helping her out. I finally told her that she can help herself and then she ranted "Well, even if I get fired thanks to you, well I can find another job because I don't need no silly big government care. Nananabooboo !". I tried again to explain to her but then she acted so childish and even covered up her ears and sang "a-la-la-la". One of the folks in the crowd even threw a pie in my face and then I left in disgust left her to eat and pay up. Well, she got fired later that week and it has been 3 months since she has been unemployed from what one of my coworkers told me. Maybe she'll understand single payer especially when unemployed ? I doubt it. Sorry to blabber here but I just thought I'd share what I had to put up with out here in LA and there's plenty of hick mentality that never ends ! They love wars and wasting more money on that pile of BS but healthcare? Nope, somehow to them, funding healthcare publicly is a waste of taxpayer money ! And my state is still reeling with exorbitant health care costs thanks to all that oil drilling over the decades and the chemicals released into the air from it !!
Bennett Miller
Shreveport, LA
Obama's healthcare plan can be equated with a euthansia plan and the sooner you knuckleheads face this harsh reality the better off you will be. Get your heads out of your butts! Face facts folks--Obama and Biden are war mongers who back the military-corporatist state and most Democrats in the U.S. House and Senate are conservatives, and not liberals or progressives. Until the next time, I am sure all of you will keep busy in those Democratic Party delusions and yes the illusion that Obama is such a "great leader."
Obama is not a Liberal/Progressive but the newest face on the fading of the American Empire. Obama is a Big FAILURE!
Yeah, single-payer healtcare will come in your delusional dreams of fantasy. You expect those disgusting Conservative Democrats who may as well be Republicans to change? Thank Obama Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel that those DINOs exist in the Democratic Party as well! The Democratic Party is useless and so too is President Obama, Vice-President Joe Biden and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. The Obama administration and the criminals in the Democratic Party-led U.S. Congress show that they are warlike, warmongers and promotors and defenders of the military-corporatist state by continuing to suppport the bloated military budget and wasted military adventures in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and paying for all of America's military bases worldwide. Obama's military budget is higher than Bush's at this time as well. Obama, Biden, Clinton, Emanuel, Panetta, Pelosi, Reid, Durbin are all war criminals along with so many more Democrats, and Republicans, of course.
Obama supports the Banksters not the workers in America. Have fun when your money means nothing and very soon too. Obama will keep lying to with you with a smiling face. The laugh is at your stupidity though. Wake Up Already! The old days are long gone folks. Stop looking at the USA as you did twenty or even ten years ago. Those times are gone forever. Things will keep getting worse and you will have no place to turn as state's become bankrupt and jobs are less than even now. The Stimulus even at this point is nothing but a band-aid without real structural change which the political and economic elites are against. Welcome to your new Serfdom status. Get ready to work as neo-slaves. Wake up out of your stupors folks!
Stop BITCHING IF YOU REMAIN IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. ANYONE BITCHING HERE TODAY WHO DOES NOT JOIN THE GREEN PARTY IS JUST YELLING AND COMPLAINING IN VAIN WITH YOUR USUAL FAKE Liberal/Progressive WHINE(ING). STOP IT BECAUSE IT HAS BECOME TIRING LISTENING TO YOU FAKE Liberal/Progressives who actually thought Obama or that the Demnocratic Party---also a party of the military-corporate state was gonna bring any real "change." You so-called Liberals/Progressives have become very pathetic! The Democratic Party is not an ally of Liberals and Progressives so get into some reality. Unfortunately, too many Liberals and Progressives have become impotent.
Don't you people realize that the America is a FAILED STATE NOW? That any other country would be under the control of the IMF and World Bank right now? Wake Up because America has Failed and you still want those who allowed it to fail to Fix It for Ya! Man, you people are DUMB!
Obama being an "environmentalist" or out for real healtchare reform would be like saying the Mafia never killed anyone. Obama is not trustworthy and you dolts keep thinking he will achieve substantial changes in this failed political system.
Ok, we agree with you but could you please tone it down a little? We're going nowhere with that kind of an attitude.
Bennett Miller
Shreveport, LA
To say we are going " nowhere with that kind of an attitude" is ridiculous on its face pal! It has nothing to do with my so called "attitude" at all, but people as yourself who are apologists for President Obama. Stop aplogizing for Obama all the time. It's apologists for Obama just like the apologists for Bush who are the ones with the bad attitudes.
And, yes, my "attitude" or not, the United States is going to continue to go Yes, downhill!!!!
Stop with your denials as well as your apologia for Obama and the impotent Democratic Party!
FYI, I too got fed up with Obama changing positions last year and voted Nader in disgust. But how many can be swayed like that? How do we convert the Obama apologists or for that matter the Republican apologists?
Bennett Miller
Shreveport, LA
I applaud your astute awareness....I am glad you have always been awake at the wheel.....
I hope you have your survival material ready when the real economic disaster hits within the next three to six months....
The economic disaster and the real destruction of America economically has not been finished yet but it is on the way....
China is tired of the military state America continues to hold so dearly....and Russia, China, and Iran have formed an alliance against America's military threats.... and the dollar has not been totally decimated but that too will be happening very soon and when that occurs, America will be like Weimar Germany was in the 1930's.
Forum suggestion:
I have recently noticed a poster of a couple days standing that seems immature and is a distracting factor to the generally civil level of discourse here. I am not disagreeing with all of ActionJackson62 posts merely HOW he is going about his self expression. He has every right to be here and to say what he wishes but if you are
incensed with his posts your time is probably best spent ignoring them. The general pattern is
AJ: post a comment that is a poorly worded and phrased re-hash of prior comments, with lots of 'shouting cap's' thrown in.
XX: discuss or hold AJ accountable for comments, thus engaging him.
AJ: rant, rave, shout, name call, stand on AJ's rights without respecting others, distract, distract, distract
XX: re- engage, re- explain, get sidetracked etc.
Long standing posters can all site examples of this pattern that self-extinguished by ignoring the posters. I think we're at this point with ActionJackson62.
transparency
This word has already reached the status of old-as-dirt cliche and gone far beyond. When you read "transparency" from now on, substitute "bullshit", "lies" or any similar and accurate epithet. I am really sick of seeing that word.
"This is one valid point of attack from the right on the Obama plan: that a government-run alternative to private insurance would end up being a dumping ground for companies that didn't want to pay for private insurance coverage plans for their workers."
The dumping ground is a valid point of attack against the public option in favor of single payer but Wallmart isn't attacking the public option but supporting it, precisely to exploit the dumping ground. Wallmart thusly should NOT be spared from the grim reaper.
"Finally, Wal-Mart probably figures that the Obama plan is the best way to avoid a move to a single-payer system ala Canada's, which inevitably would be heavily financed by corporate taxes."
Not even that's a given. The elite godzillas no longer pay much tax. Instead, the people shoulder the burden of the gargantuan public treasury heists of the past eight years and counting.
It matters little to either Wallmart or its opponents on the far left which position Wallmart adopts and for what reason. It does so mainly to feed the delusions of the sheeple who expect "leadership" from the capitalist/elitist deities at the helm of the USA's furtune 5 hunerd godzilla monsters. Obviously, it's best to ignore them and do no business with them, oppose them at every opportunity, if you want progress. We're bringing back the mom-n-pop shops by deliberately shifting our individual exchange/association away from the power centers and to our local economies, which brings the economic/political power back to the people where it belongs.
Wendell Potter formerly of Cigna was on Bill Moyers tonight explaining how SiCKO threw the insurers into a panic in 2007 and they did a PR kneecap on the film and also on the Dems who supported single payer. Part of their campaign was to convince the public that big government would take away everyone's choice in health care. That went well for them. They reframed SiCKO as entertainment and not to be taken seriously, which was also effective and threatened any Dems supporting single payer with loss of campaign funds, attack ads, and funding their opponents. Worked for over 20 of the Dems. Sure helps to have the media on your side.
Moyers asked Potter what made him come forward. He said a visit to his hometown put human faces on what had only been numbers for him. Until then he was living in an insulated bubble of privilege. That seems to be an endemic problem. I felt enormous grief at the pain these people are causing and don't even notice. I guess that's how Obama lives with himself along with the rest of the privileged class. I meanwhile, see the haunted faces of homeless vets on street corners. And grieve at their destroyed lives.
When the people fear their government there is tyranny,
when the government fears the people there is liberty.
~ Thomas Jefferson
During the Democratic primaries, Dave Lindorff was one of the all-time koolaid-chuggin' cheerleaders for Obama on the internet, and now that it doesn't really matter, he pretends to be all about "power to the people!"
Obama was Dave Lindorff's Messiah!
Anybody who criticized Obama was a racist imbecile!
And now that nothing on the internet really matters, Dave Lindorff pretends to be all about "power to the people!"
But Dave Lindorff was only and always all about Dave Lindorff, just like Obama was only and always all about Obama, and if Dave Lindorff could promote himself more effectively by making excuses for Obama now, that's exactly what Dave Lindorff would be doing.