We Wouldn't Want to Inflame Anti-American Sentiment
There are many bizarre aspects to Obama's decision to try to suppress evidence of America's detainee abuse, beginning with the newfound willingness of so many people to say: "We want our leaders to suppress information that reflects poorly on what our government does." One would think that it would be impossible to train a citizenry to be grateful to political officials for concealing evidence of government wrongdoing, or to accept the idea that evidence that reflects poorly on the conduct of political leaders should, for that reason alone, be covered-up: "Obama and his military commanders decide when it's best that we're kept in the dark, and I'm thankful when they keep from me things that reflect poorly on my government because I trust them to decide what I should and should not know." It's the fantasy of every political leader to have a citizenry willing to think that way ("I know it's totally unrealistic, but wouldn't it be great if we could actually convince people that it's for their own good when we cover-up evidence of government crimes?").
But what is ultimately even more amazing is the claim that suppressing these photographs is necessary to prevent an inflammation of anti-American sentiment in the Muslim world generally and Afghanistan specifically. That claim is coming from the same people who are doing this:
Up to 100 civilians, including women and children, are reported to have been killed in Afghanistan in potentially the single deadliest US airstrike since 2001. The news overshadowed a crucial first summit between the Afghan President and Barack Obama in Washington yesterday. . . .
This week's airstrikes took place in the Taleban-controlled area of Bala Baluk, in Farah province. US military officials in Kandahar said that the number of fatalities was nearer 30, but the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said that the death toll was far higher.
Jessica Barry, an ICRC representative, said that an international Red Cross team in Bala Baluk saw "dozens of bodies in each of the two locations" on Tuesday. "There were bodies, there were graves, and there were people burying bodies when we were there," she said. "We do confirm women and children."
And doing this:
The Obama administration has told a federal judge that military detainees in Afghanistan have no legal right to challenge their imprisonment there, embracing a key argument of former President Bush's legal team.
In a two-sentence filing late Friday, the Justice Department said that the new administration had reviewed its position in a case brought by prisoners at the United States Air Force base at Bagram, just north of the Afghan capital. The Obama team determined that the Bush policy was correct: such prisoners cannot sue for their release.
And this:
American soldiers opened fire and killed a 12-year old boy after a grenade hit their convoy in Mosul on Thursday. . . .
"We have every reason to believe that insurgents are paying children to conduct these attacks or assist the attackers in some capacity, undoubtedly placing the children in harm's way," a U. S. military spokesman wrote in an email on Saturday.
But eyewitnesses said the boy, identified as Omar Musa Salih, was standing by the side of the road selling fruit juice - a common practice in Iraq -- and had nothing to do with the attack.
And this:
The Obama administration is weighing plans to detain some terror suspects on U.S. soil -- indefinitely and without trial -- as part of a plan to retool military commission trials that were conducted for prisoners held in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
And this:
In a federal court hearing in San Francisco this morning, a representative of the Justice Department said it would continue the Bush policy of invoking the 'state secrets' defense, which has been used in cases of rendition and torture.
And this:
The Israel Air Force used a new bunker-buster missile that it received recently from the United States in strikes against Hamas targets in the Gaza Strip on Saturday, The Jerusalem Post learned on Sunday. . . .
Israel received approval from Congress to purchase 1,000 units in September and defense officials said on Sunday that the first shipment had arrived earlier this month ..
We're currently occupying two Muslim countries. We're killing civilians regularly (as usual) -- with airplanes and unmanned sky robots. We're imprisoning tens of thousands of Muslims with no trial, for years. Our government continues to insist that it has the power to abduct people -- virtually all Muslim -- ship them to Bagram, put them in cages, and keep them there indefinitely with no charges of any kind. We're denying our torture victims any ability to obtain justice for what was done to them by insisting that the way we tortured them is a "state secret" and that we need to "look to the future." We provide Israel with the arms and money used to do things like devastate Gaza. Independent of whether any or all of these policies are justifiable, the extent to which those actions "inflame anti-American sentiment" is impossible to overstate.
And now, the very same people who are doing all of that are claiming that they must suppress evidence of our government's abuse of detainees because to allow the evidence to be seen would "inflame anti-American sentiment." It's not hard to believe that releasing the photos would do so to some extent -- people generally consider it a bad thing to torture and brutally abuse helpless detainees -- but compared to everything else we're doing, the notion that releasing or concealing these photos would make an appreciable difference in terms of how we're perceived in the Muslim world is laughable on its face.
Moreover, isn't it rather obvious that Obama's decision to hide this evidence -- certain to be a prominent news story in the Muslim world, and justifiably so -- will itself inflame anti-American sentiment? It's not exactly a compelling advertisement for the virtues of transparency, honesty and open government. What do you think the impact is when we announce to the world: "What we did is so heinous that we're going to suppress the evidence?" Some Americans might be grateful to Obama for hiding evidence of what we did to detainees, but that is unlikely to be the reaction of people around the world.
If we're actually worried about inflaming anti-American sentiment and endangering our troops, we might want to re-consider whether we should keep doing the things that actually spawn "anti-American sentiment" and put American soldiers in danger. We might, for instance, want to stop invading, bombing and occupying Muslim countries and imprisoning their citizens with no charges by the thousands. But exploiting concerns over "anti-American sentiment" to vest our own government leaders with the power to cover-up evidence of wrongdoing is as incoherent as it is dangerous. Who actually thinks that the solution to anti-American sentiment is to hide evidence of our wrongdoing rather than ceasing the conduct that causes that sentiment in the first place?
* * * * *
For a discussion of why the release of these photographs is so imperative and the very real value they could generate, see here and here.
* * * * *
Finally, here's Rachel Maddow and Jonathan Turley last night excoriating Obama for relying on core Bush/Cheney rhetoric and reasoning to justify the cover-up of this torture evidence:
UPDATE: Federal District Judge Alvin Hellerstein (.pdf) and the Second Circuit Court of Appeals (.pdf) have both rejected the Bush arguments -- now the Obama arguments -- for suppressing these photographs, and held the the law clearly requires their public disclosure.
For those wishing to defend Obama's decision here (and, again, were any of you who are doing so criticizing Obama two weeks ago when he announced he'd release these photos?), please read these three paragraphs from Judge Hellerstein's decision explaining why the Bush/Obama arguments in favor of suppression are so bankrupt, along with his quotation of a passage from Daniel Patrick Moynihan's book arguing that "secrecy is for losers" and documenting how citizen trust in government secrecy is the linchpin of abuses of power.
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109 Comments so far
Show AllTo those calling for impeachment of Obama: It was a waste of energy to call for the impeachment of Bush during the Bush years. It always was more likely that Bush might some day be tried for war crimes than that he would be impeached by Congress during his term. Obama also isn't going to be impeached. If you want to focus your mental energies, focus them on the fact that he is becoming a war criminal. He won't be impeached for it, which one can realize when viewing the state of the legislative branch. Nancy would be indicting herself to go after a President.
It seems that John Yoo is working for the Obama legal team.
Obama is a prisoner of his own making. You cannot change the status quo as long you remain a part of it. If Obama tried to do what was really compassionate, he'd be shredded to bits, then marginalized. But that's where integrity comes into play, no?
The progressives had their shot and they f*cked up. It's as simple as that.
Let's try to learn from this. For example, how about we RESEARCH OUR CANDIDATES next time?
It only took five minutes on the web to see Obama was Neocon Lite--easily twenty times more pro-corporate than the much-maligned Hillary. I tried to point this out to the Obama boosters during the primaries. But they just called me and everyone I know a racist.
When the "progressive" blogs started slinging old right-wing smears at Hillary, I knew the Democratic Party had fallen into the wrong hands. No real Democrats would ever treat their fellow Democrats like that.
There are some bad people behind the Bamanator.
PS: A note on Obama being a puppet:
Many people say Obama is a puppet working for corporate masters, but Obama's vacillation and reversals suggest otherwise. A corporate shill or puppet would not reverse course but just do what he was told to do. Reality does not support the "puppet" scenario.
Xe Technology: To Purify America
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zYqMkgzOJ0
Come on, let's extend the research Ms. Clinton, too. You don't think there was any corporate influence behind her straightforward support of both wars?
Enlighten us about how Hillsry ISNT pro corporate...?
Board of Directors at wallmart...?
Sabre rattling with Iran as sec of state...?
Look at her voting record as a senator...
This fake comparison between Hillary and Owebama is the right wing talking point...
Smear campaign...? I remember it the other way around, when Hillary got desperate as she was closer to losing the primary, and showed her true colors... Since both are pro-corporate war criminals now, why split hairs about the primaries...?
I have yet to meet a progressive in the US.
I am sick to death of war and the rationalization for why every horrible thing we can think of to do to each other is ok.
I ran across this yesterday and it is a MUST SEE for everyone.
Please watch this, it will not be easy. If you are short on time, you must see the last 10-15 minutes. Make the time, it is you duty to know what is and has been happening.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3776750618788792499&ei=OW4MSvaEHYX8qAPmx-2oBg&q=The+New+Ameri...
Be nice to America or we'll bring Chenecracy to your country.
Grow up, USans: you don't need pictures to know that torture is wrong. You clamour for more pictures so you can talk about pictures, instead of owning the criminality that's evident without them.
The pix may provoke investigations, even prosecutions. This isn't a quiz. Knowing doesn't suffice, nor does "owning the criminality" unless that involves prosecutions and changes in government.
They want to see pics because of the pornography and violence pairing.
I remember that Ted Bundy blamed his serial killings on his early addiction to pornography.
Pornography, drugs, shopping, violence and self-delusion: the US addictions par excellence.
Sioux Rose
SANCHO: I brought up this insidious combo 2 weeks ago and there were over 130 comments, a few in SUPPORT of porn! Thank you for seeing what some refuse to see or understand. The denigration and dehumanization of persons too often begins with gender/sexuality or ends up in the orifices that designate one as thus.
It doesn't take an Einstein to see the connection, SR.
For counterinsurgency/paramilitary training the major chunk of time is spent showing porno films to the grunts and shouting kill kill kill.
Your tax dollars in action--School of the Americans under any name is just as pestilent.
Sioux Rose
SANCHO: Due to sexist conditioning a lot of people cannot or do not WANT to SEE the connection, that was my point!
Beating off to violent images is SELF-conditioning.
Not something that can be blamed on mom this time.
Portnoy's complaints notwithstanding.
Sorry to disappoint all you fans of crimes of torture prosuections and not wars of aggression, but ... heck, I'll spoil your fun a little anyway.
"List of 140 Afghan dead includes 93 children",
By Hamid Shalizi, Reuters, May 13 2009
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m54218
QUOTE:
KABUL (Reuters) - Ninety-three children and 25 adult women are among a list of 140 names of Afghans who villagers say were killed in a battle and U.S. air strikes last week, causing a crisis between Washington and its Afghan allies.
The list, obtained by Reuters, bears the endorsement of seven senior provincial and central government officials, including an Afghan two-star general who headed a task force dispatched by the government to investigate the incident.
Titled "list of the martyrs of the bombardment of Bala Boluk district of Farah Province", it includes the name, age and father's name of each alleged victim.
The youngest was listed as 8-day-old baby Sayed Musa, son of Sayed Adam. Fifty-three victims were girls under the age of 18, and 40 were boys. Only 22 were men 18 or older.
The U.S. military continues to dispute the toll and a military spokesman said some of the names could be fake.
The dispute over the number of dead has worsened tension between Washington and Kabul, despite apologies President Barack Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton made during a visit to Washington by President Hamid Karzai last week.
The Afghan government has endorsed the list, and Karzai went on U.S. television to call for an end to all U.S. air strikes, only to be rebuffed by Washington. Afghan officials say the issue helps insurgents by turning the public against foreign forces.
Since last year, U.S. officials adopted new procedures for investigations of civilian casualties designed to ensure their statements agree with those of the Afghan government.
Nevertheless, Washington has continued to dispute the death toll. U.S. military spokesman Colonel Greg Julian said villagers had an incentive to invent names of dead relatives in the hope of collecting compensation.
U.S. SAYS NO PROOF
"Well I could give you 140 names too. The problem is there is no evidence of that number of graves ... Are those real people? Did they ever actually exist? I can give you a list of 53 girls names with their ages," he said "There are no birth certificates and there are no death certificates."
"Conditions exist that encourage exaggeration," Julian added.
"If you say that the Taliban killed your family you'd get nothing. If you say the Americans killed your family, you might get assistance, whether they existed or not."
Julian said investigators had been shown 26 individual graves at the site and one mass grave, which he said was not large enough to contain so many bodies. He estimated the overall toll could not exceed 80.
Because of cultural sensitivity, there were no plans to dig up the graves to determine how many were buried inside, he said.
The U.S. military blames the Taliban for causing the deaths deliberately by herding civilians into houses it knew would be targeted by U.S. troops sent to rescue Afghan police and soldiers from an ambush. It also says the Taliban may have killed some of the villagers with grenades.
"Don't forget about who is responsible for this whole thing. This was a deliberate plan to create human sacrifices and then blame us," Julian said.
Karzai told CNN last week that Washington needs to rely on other tactics besides air strikes when it is facing Taliban fighters in villages where civilians might be present.
"The air strikes are not acceptable," Karzai said. "Terrorism is not in Afghan villages, not in Afghan homes. And you cannot defeat terrorists by air strikes."
But White House National Security Advisor James Jones said on Sunday that U.S. forces need air power to protect themselves: "We can't fight with one hand tied behind our back."
END QUOTE
I guess there are Afghans who really do care about a little more than crimes of torture, and wonder when Americans will start to share some of this caring ... more.
There's an article at Uruknet from the Taliban and they [again] deny U.S. claims related to this above massacre; and they [are] more credible than the U.S. is! Like it or not!
With the over one million Iraqis killed, so far, and the ... I don't know what number, but nevertheless many Afghans killed, also so far, I think paying some prosecutorial attention to these damn wars of aggression is not asking for too much. The crimes of torture should be treated as directly related, but without treating them as if they are the supreme crimes or as important as them. Killing, really murdering, well over a million people and also criminally forcing many more into extreme hardship as refugees, internally and externally displaced, due to these wars of [aggression] and not provided with the humanitarian aide that the U.S. (et al) are legally obligated to provide for these many millions of people, now all of this seems to be something that causes me to wonder why it's not treated as being as important as the crimes of torture, by all of the torture crimes analysts and reporters, all of these people who too singularly express this focus. Also, criminally destroying countries and not making sure to promptly, as promptly as possible anyway, restore essential civilian infrastructure, which, among other problems due to supreme criminality, causes the spread of diseases among the populations the U.S. et al attacked, now this also seems, imo, to count as criminality at least as important as that of crimes of torture.
An awful lot of singular focus is placed on the crimes of torture though; awfully little on the supreme international crimes.
Could the problem be one of being slow-pokes, wanting to take one's time before getting to the supreme crimes, or what, I wonder.
Maybe some of these analysts of crimes of torture have explained why it's acceptable to apply this singular focus without placing even more emphasis on the wars of aggression, but if they did, then I haven't seen such articles, yet.
I don't forget who is "responsible for it all."
The goddamned US empire is responsible for it all!
1. Bravo Glenn Greenwald - we need his voice big time.
2. Ask Obama why his kids count more than those in Iraq and Afghanistan.
3. Tell Obama to ditch his Blackberry and forget about the burger runs, the bubble has got him by the short hairs.
4. Let us remember that the US is an empire and that any president will be compelled to carry out imperialistic imperatives no matter how pretty they talk.
5. IMPEACH OBAMA. He is a war criminal and a tool of finance.
6. We don't need a progressive president. We need new progressive institutions. We need a MOVEMENT for justice.
All of this torture reporting and anlysis is odd, for nowhere in what I've read from authors rather strictly focusing on this topic, which is an important one, anything about prosecuting the people guilty for these wars of aggression; these [supreme] international crimes.
These wars are what everyone should be most focused on. Stop these supreme international crimes and the torture by the U.S. will stop. Stop these supreme crimes and withdraw from these countries, and the governments that will be put in place by their own populations will be required to release all innocent people detained in these countries, as well as to put an end to practices of torture.
Prosecuting over the crimes of torture and extraordinary renditioning, which needs to be prosecuted along with torture, instead of only torture, will not bring an end to these wars of aggression. It might eventually lead to stopping these supreme crimes, but not as quickly as prosecuting them right away and directly, head-on.
We don't need any evidence from anything related to crimes of torture to prove that these wars are of aggression. For Iraq, we can simply use the [fact] that the UN weapons inspections were working wonderfully, for Iraq; until the U.S. roguely, criminally, ... said they were launching the war and then launched it. All of Bush admin.'s claims of Saddam Hussein possessing WMD were being proven extremely bogus with these highly successful inspections. So launching this war automatically became one of aggression!
With regards to the war on Afghanistan, we know for a fact that this was a war of aggression because then Pres. Bush clearly stated over broadcast tv that the Taliban had had [nothing] to do with the 9-11 attacks, having clearly and publicly stated this prior to launching the west's war machinery into action against the then government in Kabul on Oct. 7, 2001. It is [illegal] to attack a government just because there are wanted criminals in their countries, including even when the government has some relations with the wanted criminals. The U.S. has loads of international criminals and U.S. government and other elites have relations with these criminals that the U.S. government provides safe haven for. Even if those relations are now only in terms of allowing these criminals to not be extradited, or rather making sure that they're not, which is an international crime, then this is all criminal and of the international order; given these are internationally wanted criminals. And NO court of law can legally support or protect rulings by double-standards and, therefore, hegemony, hypocrisy, etcetera! To do so would make such a court prosecutable; if we really cared to be truly integral with law!
While all this torture reporting and analysis is ongoing, no one is working to stop these damn wars of aggression and Iraqis, Afghans, and Pakistanis continue to be [killed]; not only tortured, but killed. Many of them! Very many; especially when we are supposed to uphold the value that every human life cannot have a value attached to it, being invaluable. The right to not be tortured is critically important, but the right to [live] is no less important, critical, essential; even stronger.
They'll never convince me that we need to prosecute the crimes of torture in order to be able to indict against and prosecute these damn wars of aggression, the people guilty for these, that is. This now includes the Obama administration, because it criminally continues these wars thar undeniably are of aggression, for which there [never] were any real, upholdable, defendable ... justifications of any kind. We might wish to think otherwise, but there never were any legally upholdable justifications, which automatically makes them supreme international crimes.
I don't understand why these anti-torture activists are not addressing the wars of aggression! The crimes of torture are related crimes, not the worst and first crimes.
They never needed torture to come up with lies to try to fool people into believing any of these wars were justified. The torture "confessions" were only to try to make the already invalid, legally condemnable "justifications" seem like there was more support for them. It's about brutal stage acts of torture for really no strategically purposeful reason at all; just a bunch of cowards in the White House who were afraid of being opposed and therefore sought to try to make their case(s) seem more supportable by the public.
They didn't use torture ... anything to get U.S. support for launching the war on the Taliban, and everyone ignored the fact that Bush had said that the Taliban had had nothing to do with 9-11, I'll repeat.
They didn't need any torture for the WMD lie about Iraq. They criminally, blatantly criminally, in full public view, forced the end of the UN weapons inspections and immediately-thereafter launched the war machine from hell on Iraq.
They didn't need any torture ... to get the authorisation that Congress [criminally] provided in Oct. 2002 for recourse to war on Iraq if (if and only if, [iff]) the UN inspections were not allowed by Saddam Hussein, and he worked greatly to allow these, only the U.S. having been criminally obstructive, manipulative, ... again, and while that was rather very [obvious]! It was too obvious to be credibly deniable in any acceptable terms in a true court of law!
We have MORE than enough real proof that these are wars of aggression, so these should be prosuected, the people guilty for them, that is.
Do that and win the prosecutions, and then the U.S. will more likely not commit more wars of aggression, in which case it more likely will not commit more crimes of torture related to the USA's wars of aggression.
Why is everyone so shy of prosecuting based on the fact that these are wars of aggression?!
The American government doesn't have to TRY to inflame other countries against us. They do it automatically as a matter of executing everyday business. The majority of the world's population has been upset with the good old USA for as long as I can remember (70+) years. The sad part is that they still cater to corporate greed and keep making the same mistakes over and over again. Is it a prerequisite for politicians to sleep through world history? The populace, of course suffers from their stupidity. But then, we are stupid enough to keep financing their folly.
Every week I read Greenwald's columns with pleasure and outrage, but also with a growing sense of amazement. I'm befuddled at how he can pierce through Obama's policies and practices so surely without drawing the obvious conclusion. Look at the succession of "And this" phrases in this article. Do they not aim at an unmistakable target?
How right he is that "...the notion that releasing or concealing these photos would make an appreciable difference in terms of how we're perceived in the Muslim world is laughable on its face." Therefore there must be another reason why this decision was made.
Indeed, "What do you think the impact is when we announce to the world: 'What we did is so heinous that we're going to suppress the evidence?'" Muslim imaginations, already inflamed, will surge with hatred. The ability of the U.S. to torture, imprison and murder its enemies without fear of retaliation will be denounced from mosques everywhere. This outrage will quickly turn to acts of violence against U.S. targets that will compel us, reluctant as we might be, to continue our occupation in the Middle East. What a tremendous burden it is to be the keeper of peace in the world.
The underlying assumption of Greenwald, Maddow, and others (and believe me, I admire their courage and moral persistence more than I can say), is to presume innocence in the pronouncements of this administration. The story line seems to be that Obama is foolishly caving in to the right-wing of his party in the mistaken attempt to be "bi-partisan". I think we need to dig a little deeper.
Why is Obama so determined to maintain and extend the policy of holding "terror suspects" indefinitely without charges in the US itself? What would be the purpose of guaranteeing immunity to those who committed these crimes, then letting the imagination play with the unseen images?
Could it be that torture is integral to imperial policy? That counterinsurgency campaigns depend on the terror spread through images of torture, rape, and murder? That the more ruthless we seem, the more powerful we appear to our "enemies"? Fascist psychology is not hard to penetrate, yet it is infinitely sad to see a non-fascist like Obama twisted into the image of what he has fought against for most of his life.
HELLO ALL: I LIKE YOU ALL FOR BEING ON THE VERY LITTLE PERCENTAGE OF AMERICAN PEOPLE WHO ARE AWAKE !!
I WISH THAT THE PERCENTAGE OF AMERICANS WHO WERE AWAKE WAS LIKE 60% TO 70% BUT WE HAVE TO REALISTS. ACCORDING TO ELECTIONS AND THE WAY PEOPLE VOTE, ONLY ABOUT 5% OF US CITIZENS BELIEVE THAT USA NEEDS A THIRD ALTERNATIVE POLITICAL PARTY !! WHICH UNFORTUNATELY MEANS THAT 95% OF USA CITIZENS STILL BELIEVE IN THE CAPITALIST ONE PARTY DICTATORSHIP OF THE DEMOC-RATS AND REPUBLIC-RATS
.
To inflame anti-American sentiment has always been mission number one of the Obama/Cheney White House and all administrations preceding it. America's mission has always been to throw as much gasoline in the fire as to justify and intensify the endless wars of terror against these infuriated, unfairly provoked civilians. Israel does the exact loathsome thing to Palestinians. By promising to release the pictures and then banning them, Obama's in fact giving the material greater prominence, which is his prime objective.
As if releasing these pictures could possibly increase anti-American sentiment any further anyway. Bush was right: the mission was accomplished a long time ago.
Glenn Greenwald says or rhetorically asks the following.
Quote: "Moreover, isn't it rather obvious that Obama's decision to hide this evidence -- certain to be a prominent news story in the Muslim world, and justifiably so -- will itself inflame anti-American sentiment?"
MIGHT that be something the Obama admin. and ruling elites of the U.S. government want to cause; trying to heighten anti-U.S. sentiment, even if it can't, in practical terms, be heightened much over what it's already reached? Can we be certain that they don't perceive a strategic usefulness (for themselves, their goals) in causing more of such sentiment? Can we perceive a possible strategic usefulness given the real agenda basically is to try to achieve [full spectrum dominance], globally and certainly over Asia, as well as Africa (and ... etcetera)? Even if we don't perceive such a possibility at first thought, initially, can we perceive one with further or additional thought?
It's only a thought or question that comes to mind; but perhaps it's pertinent to consider the situation or Obama's action with investigative (say) questions from both angles, instead of only analysing from or considering one angle or viewpoint. Instead of only thinking the Obama admin. (et al) definitely would not want to try to heighten the ... sentiment, I believe that we should additionally consider that perhaps they would want to do the very opposite. F.e., if they did want to do the opposite and achieved a some real degree of heightening, then this, I'll conjecture, would draw more fighters against U.S. forces, therefore drawing more killing of U.S. troops and, thereby, making it (hypothetically or theoretically) easier for the Obama admin. to gain more support from the population of the USA for continuing and escalating the wars; in Afghanistan and Pakistan, as well as Iraq, where it's been obviously (imo) doubtful that the Obama admin. really or truly ever planned to eventually withdraw from Iraq.
I don't know that they really could inflame anti-U.S. sentiment in the Muslim world more than it's already reached by now, but perhaps the Obama admin. (et al) think it could be heightened and might want to try to exploit heightening it, if they can; maybe (?).
They are aiming for [full spectrum dominance] and this is one extremely hellish "game of chess" they're playing; and have been playing for ..., well, actually longer than since 2001 anyway.
Questions, questions, questions; my, my, my. Oh my. Hmmm (?).
Wherein I (above) referred to it being doubtful that the Obama admin. has ever truly planned on withdrawing from Iraq, I'll quote a little from the following article.
"Once Upon a Time...: Against Prosecution (III): Obama and the Triumph of the American Myth",
by Arthur Silber, May 12, 2009
(link broken over two lines to make sure it fully appears in this post)
http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/2009/05/
against-prosecution-iii-obama-and.html
QUOTE:
When we attempt to gauge whether an individual is genuine and honest about his proclaimed goals and intentions, we can look to various indicators in our search for evidence. We will note conflicts and contradictions between a person's statements and his actions, always remembering that, especially in the realm of politics, a person's statements will convey what he wants you to believe, while his actions will reveal what he himself is in fact concerned about. (Keep that point in mind; we will return to it later in this series when we consider the realities of Obama's foreign policy.)
END QUOTE
If I knew of way to highlight an emphasis on this above-quoted text using fonts, say, then I would do this; but not knowing how to do that I'll just let this statement represent the emphasis.
Read it again and again and again ..., always carefully, very thoughtfully. Contemplate it; meditate on it; understand it and never forget its full and fully reality-based meaning. It is or is like a guiding principle, say, to keep throughout life.
And I obtained the link through the following short article, which is short, good, and an important reminder.
"Silent as the Grave: A Timely Demise Draws the Curtain on a Deeply Rooted Evil",
by Chris Floyd, May 13, 2009
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m54223
That opens with the following text.
QUOTE:
As Scott Horton at Harper's reports -- drawing on the reporting of Andy Worthington -- the Terror War captive who would have provided the most damning evidence of the direct connection between the Bush administration's torture program and its concoction of false evidence to "justify" its Hitlerian act of aggression in Iraq has suddenly, somehow, come over all dead-like.
Ali Mohamed al-Fakheri -- more usually known as Ibn al-Sheikh al-Libi -- was captured in Afghanistan in late 2001 and subjected to a series of horrific tortures designed to make him "confess" to non-existent ties between Iraq and al Qaeda. ...
END QUOTE
And Americans wonder why others hate us . . .
Its not only anti-American sentiments they don't want to inflame, it's the Repug MSM. It wants blood so they can blame it on Obama for releasing info that got ours killed, and score political points. For Obama its a lose-lose situation.
Obams IS to blame. He voted to fund the torture, Pelosi knew about it. Can we stop the insanity? When are you going to accept that Democrats were in on the crimes of the Bush administration from day one?
It's bizarre that the Audacious Hoper thinks the option of covering up the truth will even cover his ass for the short term.
Bring America Back !!!! ............AND THIS:---> A trooper shot 5 fellow troopers at a Stress Tent meeting in Baghdad, Iraq. Nwo they look for scapegoats and who to blame !
*********Well, does "STOP LOSS" come to mind==The Pentagon policy of keeping troops on interminable repeat tours of duty rather than letting them go home when their agreed hitch was served ??? Sure they're stressed out , sick, not sure they'll ever get Home, and probably headed to Afghan for our new Saviour's crusade !
****Does putting a "Surge" on at an illegal and immoral Invasion of a defenseless, sovereign Nation come to mind ?
Bush lied us into that War, and we should never have been there in the first place.
****Does keeping a radical Neocon right winger as Sec of Defense make senses for a New change-bent Administration ??
****Does putting someone who voted FOR the Iraq War on as Sec of State make any sense to anyone ???
Attaboy Barak, mission accomplished, here's your Banner and your flight suit is on order !!! hellofajob.
manning, barackstar says the photos are "not particularly sensational." of course, he's probably giving us yet another lie there as well.
So, bland photos of torture. Ho hum?
We might find it hard to inflame anti-American sentiment beyond the levels it has reached in much of the world.
But nary a squeak here at home. Although a progressive collective consciousness thrives on the web, it is dead in the streets. But the only time American opinion stopped a war, it was from the streets.
Latinos in LA stopped traffic and found a quick voice in the media because they Stopped The System for a few seconds and it shivered in fear.
"Resist Or Become Serfs," Chris Hedges. My vote for Obama sure as heck changed naught. Okay, so now?
Kids in AfPak care not about American Politics...So how?
Deepa
Violence and hypocrisy are inseparably connected. Perpetrators of violence try to hide the truth of their own actions from others as well as from themselves, partly by repressing it into the subconscious, partly bt projecting it upon others. But when the repressed truth becomes known and projection is unmasked as projection, only one alternative remains: acceptance of the painful truth or deliberate deceit.
Acceptance of painful truth should lead to acceptance of accountability and justice.
Whereas deliberate deceit sustains the staus quo and hypocrisy. Americans continue to live in the same delusion that they are the "champions" of human dignity and rights. Obama's statement on Sri Lanka confirms that the US president is living in this delusion.
Torture is immoral and illegal. Disclosure of information about U.S. sponsored torture is a good thing. However, we should remember that photographs have an inflammatory impact that words can never equal. In court, gruesome photographs are sometimes excluded from juries because their inflammatory power might render jurors unable to fairly apply the law to the facts. In our society, the work products of pedophiles who document their deeds on film are never shown to the public. Even the photographs of Abu Ghraib are edited to exclude the genitals and faces of prisoners being abused, obviously because of worry about inflammatory effects. I don't feel qualified to say that the inflammatory power of photographs I haven't seen doesn't outweigh any positive value that might flow from their release.
There are other sensibilities to consider. Americans wouldn't want graphic photographs of Al Qaeda atrocities against American citizens released world-wide. The beheadings of U.S. citizens weren't widely published in the U.S., nor do I feel that I needed to see them to understand the wrongfulness of what was done. Iraqis and others might have similar feelings about photographs of their people being tortured.
The key concern is that the facts not be obscured by withholding the photographs. Verbal description might be used. Photographs might be shown to lawmakers or other individuals but not the general public here and abroad. I think in this case, as in the case of child pornography, beheadings, and other highly inflammatory photographs, the facts could be adequately known without the photographs being disseminated to everyone. I'm willing to give Obama some room on this. By the way, I think the ACLU is about as essential to freedom in this country as the Constitution itself. But I don't side with everything the organization says (I'm sure some members agree with me).
You mean like the emaciated bodies piled up in the death camps?
Wouldn't want to offend anyone with the brutal truth. They forced the Good Germans to look at what was being done in their names. That is beneath the sophisticated and noble sensibilities of the delicate US citizen, huh?
-Even the photographs of Abu Ghraib are edited to exclude the genitals and faces of prisoners being abused, obviously because of worry about inflammatory effects
manning120, you are in quicksand here.
Perhaps Americans see the "edited" versions of the Abu Ghraib photos, but the rest of us in the world, the other 95 percent of the world, including the Muslim world, we see the unvarnished originals.
So, obviously, any, ...inflammation, that is being prevented, must be among American subjects. So evidently your government doesn't want Americans to be inflammed by a little torture, do they? An inflammed electorate might be capable of anything, even, (gasp) voting for the Greens!
We need to build up the Socialist Party in the U.S. Go to its website and see: you'll be amazed at how close their platform/principles are to those of us who call ourselves "Progressives".
Yo Manning - What about the sensibilities of the tortured and abused? and their families?
Relatives of many of those WANT the world to see for themselves what atrocious, inhumane, and heinous acts of bestiality were perpetrated by US military personnel, the CIA, and the civilian contractors.
Where is your sense of justice and openness and rule of law?
Jlocke123 and curmudgeon99, thanks for the comments. The only legitimate purpose of releasing the photographs, other than complying with the FOIA, would be to cause people who see them to generally reach rational conclusions favorable to the U.S. Not to titillate, not to feed sadistic appetites, not to provoke outrage that makes rational thought all over the world difficult or impossible. Not, after all, to defame and humiliate the abusers without due process of law.
This isn't like releasing a rated X horror movie. The goal is education and ultimately justice, not entertainment. It's not a matter of showing pictures because it would be tedious to describe what happened verbally (as with news photos of fires, accidents, etc.). And the release into the public domain of these photographs wouldn't be the same as using them, undoctored, in trials, or providing them to participants in congressional hearings designed to investigate what happened or rev up laws against abuse of prisoners.
I don't think Obama is proposing that the photos are like classified information that must not be used in trials or legislative activity in the interest of national security. I also believe that people related to the abused prisoners wouldn't want identities of the victims to come out. Some of the horrors, particularly those involving sexual offenses against women and children, could permanently injure the status of the victims in Muslim societies.
I'm speechless - 'nuf said!
On page A19 of today's NYT, the right wing conservative think tank, Accuracy in Media, paid for and published a full page ad puporting to be sponsored by 'Torture Truth Project', a project of AIM.
T O R T U R E
Throughout The Entire World
The Word 'Torture' Means Intense,
Lasting, Brutal Physical Agony
Why Is The U.S. News Media Eagerly
Spreading An Incalculably Harmful Lie
That Can Only Motivate Terrorists To
Further Attacks On America?
A Grassroots Plea To
The U.S. News Media
Stop Misleading The World
That Our Country Condones Torture
*You now know as a result of the recent release of what you
choose to call "The Torture Memos" that these are the 14
interrogation techniques permitted by the United States:
*Sleep deprivation...Dietary manipulation... Abdominal
slaps.. Facial slaps... Attention grasps...Facial holds...
Forced nudity..Water dousing..Stress positions not designed
to produce pain.. Cramped confinement in a dark space...
Confinement with insects such as a caterpillar... Pushing
against a wall..Wall standing...Pouring water on a person's
face to induce the feeling of drowning(waterboarding)
*As you know, waterboarding has not been used for 5 years and
was used on only 3 detainees. Our own troops are subject to
waterboarding as part of their training.
*By your continual use of the word 'Torture' to describe these
interrogation techniques you have been misleading the world
that the United States condones techniques of barbarous
cruelty. The consequences could be horrendous.
IT'S TIME FOR THE TRUTH
We are losing the goodwill of people across the world and you
are aiding al Qaida in recruiting terrorists for future
attacks on America.
Torture Truth Project
A project of Accuracy in Media, Inc.
4455 Connecticut Ave, NW, Washington, DC 20008/(202)364-4401
curmudgeon99, thanks for the info on these astro-turf astro-holes.
Yes, sure, "A project of Accuracy in Media, Inc." --- your friendly propagandist corporate Empire whores!
Alan MacDonald
Sanford, Maine
I love it!
How about some new slogans:
Only you can make the world safe for turture!
or
A little torture goes a long way!
or
Torture today so that you won't have to torture tomorrow!
Glenn G,
Thank you for this powerful statement:
investigative journalism at its best.
Thanks to Common Dreams.
US should stop INFLAMING children by bombing them with white phosphorus bombs.
I am SO Glad to see so MANY People here realize Obama is no more than George Bush The 3rd! Because I was getting ready to come here and write how so many people out there (and so many still do) hail obama as some perfect messiah who is going to save us all - Well he isn't! And those of you who still think he is, WAKE UP already!
Obama is a Puppet- He is a Demagogue being used to manipulate the well meaning people who are looking for REAL change. But we aren't going to get change from this War Mongering criminal.
Obama is a Bush croney, a continuation - The Demoncrats and the RepubliCONS are in cahoots when it comes to destroying our Sovereign Nation.
We The People need to Rise above this Madness and take back control of OUR Country. We need real leaders like Dennis Kucinich, RON PAUL, Cynthia McKinney - And for those of you in New Mexico, I implore you to Look Into ADAM KOKESH for Congress third district. He is an Iraq Veteran Against War member and a Really Great Individual.
http://kokesh.netboots.net http://ivaw.org
Let's Take Our Country Back Before Its Too Late!
Thats why I am equally repulsed by o bomber and bush. obama KNOWS better. W was an idiot, and a loathsome member of the elite. But B Ho Is bright, and belonged to the middle class, and yet, he's turned into just another political HACK virtually overnight. Transparency? Accountability? Hope? Change? Bull$hit!!!
Why overnight? You don't think this guy worked on his moves?
But... but... but... Change you can believe in.
Now that folks are understanding that "OBAMA" the "BLACK BUSH" is a war criminal and "COWARD" how do we get rid of him? An election is hopeless, perhaps a revolution. Or perhaps we could do what they do in foreign land, send in a seal team or something similar? It seems to work for them? This is how they operate, murder is justice, massacre is democracy!
I think Obama's new fallacy to hoodwink the people is called, the masked man fallacy.
He usually seems to prefer straw arguments. In the example where he justifies holding images from the public, he effectively* argues America won't be condemned if those who wish to condemn us have no proof of evidence.
Twisted logic is as follows, If we don't know who is behind the mask, how can we possibly go after those fellows in the bank? Or, 'we don't know who did it, therefore nobody is guilty.'.
ed. replace *effectively* with *essentially*
What an all-around mess we're in. Hard to trust anyone any more about nearly anything. This nation's elite's machinations offer such fertile soil to "conspiracy" and paranoid theories.
Good point.
I thought Obysmal was supposed to be intelligent; yet he keeps doing one brutally stupid, totally counter-productive thing after another. The corruption of politics is total. It's not Obysmal's lack of intelligence that will get him in the end but his complete lack of character.
mordechai.........i forgot to add that bo-bysmal the pooch, might be a good candidate for the next election.....dogs have character. (as well as intelligence)
mordechai...........like the new 'nom de plume'...............for your current leader.
but didn't you know, they are only intelligent on 'paper'.............
The politicos are totally corrupt, indeed.
The Obama regime, like the Bush-Cheney Cabal, is a real 'trust' buster. Same men behind the curtain.
Who can trust any American these days? Is that why all the ammunition shelves are empty?
Shocked, shocked to find that a Democratic president (dedicated to government by the plutocrats, for the plutocrats, and of the plutocrats) is a fascist. Shocked.
The United States has been under right wing control for so long, since January 1981 at least, that it really does not matter much what Obama really thinks about things. Obama is like a bit player in a right wing play. Or a puppet show.
Starting in January 2009 from the deep hole that the right wing put the country in, Obama can only do so much without taking all kinds of huge risks, including having any chance for reelection being ended due to an anti-Obama propaganda campaign mounted by the media, which can happen should that media get upset about Obama not being subservient enough to the elites who became elites during the previous three decades.
Because remember, the elites run the big media companies like they do all the other big companies.
That is not meant to be an excuse for Obama, only a hard reality type of observation.
Remember the jokes about "who in their right mind would want to win the Presidency in 2008?" Those jokes were and are still on point.
The only ones who might be kept ignorant are Americans -- the rest of the world, and especially the people who were tortured, know perfectly well just what happened. That's the point -- keep Americans in the dark.
Aside from that I must assume that these pictures show things much worse and disgusting than the one already shown -- maybe the sexual perversions on and raping of boys which we have heard about, or worse that that: as bad as the worst we might imagine in our darkest thoughts (we are already getting near there). After the photos we have seen what else could there be left to hide from the American people but the worst of nightmares?
pilgrim, you are precisely right when you note that the only ones being deceived are we Americans -- and that "rest of the world, and especially the people who were tortured, know perfectly well just what happened."
Yes, the rest of the world knows what the global ruling-elite 'corporate financial Empire' (only posing as the US) does in the dark of secrecy.
And the rest of the world knows this because they are the ones receiving the sharp lance of Empire in the eye.
Sometimes the lance of the Empire is torture, sometimes shocking and deadly war, but also sometimes economic war, shock doctrine and 'disaster capitalism' (via the torture of those economic WMDs, as Buffett rightly calls the debt bombs and CDS) that the Empire's "Economic Hit-men" deploy to cause massive suffering throughout the world --- and to loot monumental profits for the 'corporate financial Empire' itself.
But Americans themselves are starting to get a preview of the economic lance of this Empire in our own faces "at home" --- now that the Empire has unleashed its shock doctrine, draconian 'structural adjustments' to social safety nets and jobs destruction right here in River City.
And as Americans taste the blood of that Empire's economic lance in their own face we will all start to understand the reasons why both economic and military attacks of the Empire that thrusts their lance, but 'in our name', is becoming so hated, not only in the Middle East and the third world, but increasingly among the real functioning 'social democracies' of Europe and Japan --- which unlike this deadly Empire hiding behind the facade of our sham democracy, actually give a damn about their citizens.
Alan MacDonald
Sanford, Maine
There are over 6 billion people in the world, and we are only 300 million, with a good number of those who find torture, corruption, and tyranny to be distasteful. So where is the outrage from those 6 billion people going? The US is not the only nation with a guilty consience - we have billions more who are doing NOTHING to change the status quo. Where was the global outrage over the inavion of Afghanistan? Iraq? Some 10 million out of 6 billion doesn't count for much, which is why those heinous war crimes proceeded with impunity. Where is the rest of the world? Cowering in apathy and hoping they don't get caught in this latest upheaval - this perversion of government? Fascism is a virulent virus - and it spreads into the hearts and souls of billions of people who see it, and ignore the consquences with which we are all so familiar. So if we're going to bash the US, should't we include the rest of the world as well? They might not torture in another country, but they've know about torture going on all over the world - some in their own countries - and they don't do anything about it either.
Oh, they are out there in the streets- we just don't hear about it much and when we do, it is generally pohh-poohed as just a handful of professional protestors (actually heard Keith Olbermann say that during the G20 protests where the cops killed a man)
Glenn's cynicism seems most appropriate. It doesn't seem productive at all to try and put a smiley face on the current state of this society. We really need to reach rock bottom to catalyze a revolution of truth, ASAP.
"We're imprisoning tens of thousands of Muslims with no trial, for years"
Later, the mass imprisonment of Muslims without trial will be cited as one of the key motivations for the next round of imperial blowback. USans may protest this, to do their part to prevent further escalation, but this also comes with a price - sustaining a slightly lesser evil imperialism. Far better, it would seem, is for USans to shift their individual exchange/association away from the power centers and to their local communities, to starve the demon elites of economic/political support, among so many more benefits.
I already suffer from anti-American sentiment, and I'm an American!
Right with ya!
No prosecutions are coming. No prosecutions....releasing the photo's are just a form of self flagelation that serves no one and no purpose.
"What we did is so heinous that we're going to suppress the evidence?"
Isn't that the same argument "our" government is using to allow the banksters to hide what they're doing with the $12.8 trillion We The Taxpayers have unwillingly lent and/or committed to "help" them "survive"?
Wouldn't want to inflame any American anti-bankster sentiments now, would we?
Yes, Frank, it's the exact same fallacious argument to cover up the crimes of Empire.
The first lie covers the crimes of Empire "abroad" in creating aggressive wars, torture and war crimes.
While the second covers the crimes of Empire "at home" in causing economic oppression of the people, spying, lying, deceit, and police-state tyranny.
As Hannah Arendt presciently warned of Empire in the era of the Nazi Empire:
"Empire abroad (always) entails tyranny at home."
Alan MacDonald
Sanford, Maine
The only path that could possibly justify not releasing the photos would be instead to begin prosecution immediately.
IMHO, no matter how plaintively Obama may cry “Out, damn’d spot!” —- he will not be able to walk off of this tragic ‘war crimes’ stage until this most odious crime is expunged.
So for Obama, the superficially adored hero, the role of a modern Hamlet tentatively deciding whether “to be or not to be” for the war-crimes-Empire could be the last drama on this mortal coil.
Alan MacDonald
Sanford, Maine
It is time to look forward - not backward.
It is time to look forward to what will happen if we do not hold those responsible for torture for their actions:
We can expect more torture which will endanger our troops.
We can expect more torture which will generate more terrorists which will endanger the "homeland".
If we want to look forward, then the only logical action is to release all of the information and hold those accountable for their actions.
People need to settle down and reflect on history. If the Nazis had not suppressed information about the concentration camps, torture, and massacres, the Nazis would not have been able to win WWII and would not enjoy such a fine reputation today. Can you imagine how much hatred it would have inspired if they had allowed release of photos of the atrocities?
Yes suppression of atrocities did delay USA's enterance into War. And the USA and Soviets did much to defeat the Nazis.
Nazi suppression of information,early on in the war, was a large factor in the USA's decision to send a refugee ship of Jews back to Germany and death.
The photo's could not be worse than USA's current killing of children with White Phosphorus.
So the photos should be shown to help rid the world of the unrepentent entity(USA) perpetrating the crimes.
Not being honest and upfront about one's past depravity is a surefire recipe for sinking further into depravity.
Interesting stuff. We have never finally resolved the Nuremberg questions: If your rulers do it, is it wrong? Your rulers (those who hold power and make policy in Washington irrespective of election cycles and the chatter of the people, e.g. Dick Cheney et al) are the final moral authority today. To what authority would we default to debunk their claim? The philosophers? Kant's imperatives? The only philosophy America has contributed to the world is Jamesian pragmatism, a non-philosophy that says any old truth will do if it gets you what you want. The gentle Christian teachings of Church? Progressives burned down the Church around 1840. The vox populi? The mighty voice of "we the people?" Give me a break. Democracy is the discovery that a population which is allowed to bitch and elect ersatz leaders is less dangerous than a population that is overtly oppressed. Looks like we got ourselves out on a limb morally speaking, and then sawed off the limb. Very clever of us. History is a standing wave of war and torture and moral ambivalence. We gentle souls (also a standing wave) are occasionally awakened and sickened by it. But to be awake is also to be frustrated and powerless. We aren't going to rise up with one righteous voice and fix our corrupted race, and we know it. Can anyone tell me, without making up fairy tales, how we are going to go about forcing the Obama (or any other) administration to cough up those incriminating memos and those disgusting photographs? I don't think it's going to happen. If I'm wrong I'll never utter another cynical word.
Though I suspect that most of your questions were intended to be rhetorical, I would like to respond. With regard to questions of "right and wrong," I would say it all depends on what is the most important group an individual believes the individual belongs to. If the group is the people of the individual's nation, then what is right to that individual is what benefits or improves the welfare of the individuals in the nation (using utilitarian summation over all the individuals in the group). If the group is the human race, then what is right is what benefits or improves the welfare of the entire human race.
The Nuremberg trials purported to be an effort to benefit the human race, with those involved acting as if the human race was the most important group. But since US, UK, and USSR officials who authorized war crimes were not charged, then it became obvious to all but the most gullible that it also operated to the benefit of the victors. And since the rules developed and celebrated by the Nuremberg trials have subsequently not been applied to the victors or their allies in all the intervening years, it becomes difficult to argue that the group the rules were primarily intended to serve was the human race.
I would add that I doubt the species will make it to the end of this century unless sometime very soon most people, and particularly most powerful people, determine that for them the primary group is the human race.
As for the authority to judge whether something done would have a positive effect on the welfare of the individual's primary group (whether that be the human race, the nation, or some other group), and is therefore "good," I believe that is for each individual to decide, based on whatever information and arguments the individual has available to consider. With regard to who should have the authority to determine what is "good" for the group, I do not believe there are or ever will be clear answers to that, and the decisions made by the group are the result of all the individuals in the group pulling and pushing this way and that, with some obviously having much greater pull than others, even when superficially it appears that they all have equal pull (e.g. a so-called "democratic system").
And as for whether Obama will "cough up" the evidence, I think you need not worry about having to refrain from cynicism in the future.
Sioux Rose
KIVALS: Good case. Articulated like a genuine humanitarian.
Sioux Rose
VOX: We are not so alone as we may imagine. There are higher beings & powers, not to mention the power of collective thought. LOTS of people around the world are intent upon destroying the beast, which is to say that absolute power that has amassed (thanks to a grotesque focus on militarism and international business that makes up its own rules in unapologetic homage to Mammon) so vehemently to have corrupted itself and all it touches absolutely. No empire lasts forever, particularly one that allows its domestic base to come apart. And ALL things come full circle. There ARE universal laws greater than anything human minds, egos, aspirations, or dark intentions can singularly orchestrate.
Before a great play the actors must prepare and learn their lines while the stage hands prepare the set designs. The astro-logos shows a time of reckoning and while it may have perhaps already begun, the upping of the ante is certain beginning later this year. You will understand these words by June 2010, or I owe you a classy bottle of wine. Deal?
Sioux Rose -- may your words come to pass. May these powers beyond what we know put things in their right balance as you say.
-actors must prepare and learn their lines while the stage hands prepare the set designs
Pure poetry! I'm going to steal that! You are a poet, and don't even know it! (I made that up, by the way)
Sioux Rose
JLOCKE: Thank you. I do write some poetry from time to time.
sioux rose........
'no empire lasts forever'..........true, but the bad guys, take us good guys with them.................
-Can anyone tell me...
Might I suggest that, governments are formed by and for the people.
We started as nomads...
we became farmers...
city states were formed...
now we have nations...
Why "cynical", voxclamantis? Do you not think it is within our power to continue the human adventure into the future? Do you think this is the best we can do? Sure a giant rock from space may crush us, a pandemic may finish us off, but given time, who knows what human civilization will look like in the coming years?
I am sure the"Blue" team doesn't feel that Obama is letting anyone down. He's their man and they will support him no matter what he does or doesn't do. But, when we live and breathe "hope" then that's the sort of "change" we can expect and get.
Sure, some blues will awaken. Bush's 20-something poll results meant even some Republicanos woke up a little to something.
I can hear the laughter now, inside the Democratic campaign office:
"we said, get this - don't waste your vote - and they believed us! Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!
"yeah, and then we said, (holding back guffaws), the third party candidates are, (chuckle) unelectable! Ha!Ha!Ha!
...after that there is just a bunch of rolling around and chanting -hope- and -change- and much giggling.
Well done progressive brainiacs of America! Four more years!
What the hell were we supposed to do? Vote for McCain / Palin?
In 2012, I'm going to write in Dennis Kucinich.
...that is the kinder, gentler version of the truth, easy to swallow. But I think the truth is stranger than fiction...they (Obama cabal) really think they are the good guys and Bush and his guys were the bad guys.
Denial gets so kinky with these people - at once the recognition and and unawareness.