Fiscal Plan Fails both Markets and Taxpayers
Let's be clear: President Barack Obama inherited an economy in freefall and could not possibly have turned things around in the short time since his election. Unfortunately, what he is doing is not enough.
The real failings in the Obama recovery program lie not in the stimulus package -- though it is too heavily weighted toward tax cuts, and much of it merely offsets cutbacks by states -- but in its efforts to revive financial markets. America's failures provide important lessons to countries around the world that are or will be facing increasing problems with their banks:
- Delaying
bank restructuring is costly, in terms of both the eventual bailout
costs and the damage to the overall economy in the interim.
- Governments do not like to admit the full costs of the problem, so they give the banking system just enough to survive, but not enough to return it to health.
- Confidence
is important, but it must rest on sound fundamentals. Policies must not
be based on the fiction that good loans were made, and that the
business acumen of financial-market leaders and regulators will be
validated once confidence is restored.
- Bankers
can be expected to act in their self-interest on the basis of
incentives. Perverse incentives fueled excessive risk-taking, and banks
that are near collapse but are too big to fail will engage in even more
of it. Knowing that the government will pick up the pieces if
necessary, they will postpone resolving mortgages and pay out billions
in bonuses and dividends.
- Socializing
losses while privatizing gains is more worrisome than the consequences
of nationalizing banks. American taxpayers are getting an increasingly
bad deal. In the first round of cash infusions, they got about 67 cents
in assets for every dollar they gave (though the assets were almost
surely overvalued, and quickly fell in value). But in the recent cash
infusions, it is estimated that Americans are getting 25 cents, or
less, for every dollar. Bad terms mean a large national debt in the
future.
- Don't confuse
saving bankers and shareholders with saving banks. America could have
saved its banks, but let the shareholders go, for far less than it has
spent.
- Trickle-down
economics almost never works. Throwing money at the banks hasn't helped
homeowners: foreclosures continue to increase. Letting AIG fail might
have hurt some systemically important institutions, but dealing with
that would have been better than to gamble upwards of $150 billion and
hope that some of it might stick where it is important. One of the
reasons we may be getting bad terms is that if we got fair value for
our money, we would by now be the dominant shareholder in at least one
of the major banks.
- Lack of
transparency got America's financial system into this trouble. Lack of
transparency will not get it out. The Obama administration is promising
to pick up losses to persuade hedge funds and other private investors
to buy out banks' bad assets. But this will not establish ''market
prices,'' as the administration claims. Banks' losses have already
occurred, and their gains must now come at taxpayers' expense. Bringing
in hedge funds as third parties will simply increase the cost.
- Better to be forward looking than backward looking, focusing on reducing the risk of new loans and ensuring that funds create new lending capacity.
There is no ''mystique'' in finance: The era of believing that something can be created out of nothing should be over. Short-sighted responses by politicians -- who hope to get by with a deal that is small enough to please taxpayers and large enough to please the banks -- will merely prolong the problem.
An impasse is looming. More money will be needed, but Americans are in no mood to provide it -- certainly not on the terms that we have seen The well of money may be running dry, and so, too, may be America's legendary optimism and hope.
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75 Comments so far
Show Allis not about advisers and the bailout money is not "for failed banks". here is what a famous progressive economist told me today about who has been and will keep getting most of the bailout money.
"...the Congressional Research Service states that the wealthiest 1% increased their share of the returns from wealth from 37% ten years ago to 57% five years ago, [so] my estimate is 70% of the derivatives and other gambles are by the richest 1% today. And [...] my guess is that about 50% accrue to the top 0.1%."
the demoblicans are "saving the financial system" to save their billionaire friends...
only once the citizenry will start saying that it does not want to pay for the financial gambling follies of the richest 0.1%, etc., it will become feasible for obama to go against the billionaires, since at that point taking him out won’t make any difference for the billionaires.
but note that both the top demoblicans and their billionarie friends are people of the finest taste. so it's much better that they get to use our money than that we misuse it to buy tacky products...
upsetting you aside, it helps obama politically to have his minions come up with more and more proposals "to save the financial system" that are transparently outrageous in their trying to save the ultra-rich who are financially exposed to trillions in toxic investments.
and the left should welcome geithner's proposal as a great teaching moment regarding the fortunes the demoblicans are truly trying to save.
leftists should stop proposing personnel to obama and finally make the effort to find out and publicize the names of the billionaires whom the demoblicans are trying to save with our taxpayer money.
this is a once-in-a-lifetime chance offered to americans to learn who are the billionaires that wag the usa dog and to rebel against them and their bribed politicians, journalists, and economists.
the left should stop complaining about "WS and the banks" and ask the american people if they really want to bail out this or that individual billionaire.
even publicizing the crude macro-economic data above about how many trillions in toxic assets are in the hands of say the richest 0.1% would be very game-changing as it would make it impossible for the demoblicans to continue saying that they are acting for the public good.
demoblicans blackmail americans by crying wolf about "saving the financial system" but they won't be able to blackmail anybody anymore if they are compelled to cry wolf about "saving the billionaires".
even conservatives will find it hard to defend spending trillions in "welfare programs" for gambling billionaires.
SO WHAT DO WE DO IF THIS ACTUALLY APEARS?????????????
From what I understand a citizen's initiative will be posted in all the progressive sites within the next few days.
I think it deals with the issues that were posted on this discussion page as well as others that have been recurring themes since Obama's election.
Anyway - should be interesting to see if the real progressive left in this country can finally get out of its own way and actually get behind something
again.
The last time I felt this way was in 1968.
I think we should be like the republican machine and suddenly have a thousand people reading from the same talking points page.Can you imagine the news media and Obama's people running around like crazy trying to find out whats going on
"PROGRESSIVE LIBERAL GROUPS TO PRESENT LAUNDRY LIST TO PRESIDENT AND CONGRESS,
TAKE THESE ACTIONS OR FACE IMMEDIATE RECALL"
I can't wait to see senators and congress people faces when they are actually
commanded by ordinary citizen's to enact specific legislation.
Just to see this scene of crazed citizens with pitchforks and broom handles
on the steps of the capital would let me leave this world with a smile tattooed on my face.Something I thought I would never see in my lifetime again public dissent.
In fact I think I will become a talking points guy for the next couple of days
I hope no one got to Rush yet, this is going to be fun
It is a confusing mess. On one hand we have a pair of Nobel prize winning economists (Stiglitz and Krugman) and many other noted economists, including my favourite - the current prince of economists, Nouriel Roubini - advocating for temporary nationalisation of these decrepit financial institutions. On the other hand we have been tossing money at these financial institutions whereby the taxpayer effectively owns a big chunk of them already, without really knowing what the results are OR what is on their books.
As much as I hate to say this, I am in agreement with those advocating for temporary nationalisation. Take 'em over, clean 'em up, get 'em back on their feet and sell them back to the private sector when the mess has been dealt with.
Do it now, the longer we wait the worse the "surprises" will be.
I am continually surprised by Economics Spokespersons who actually think there is a viable financially engineered solution to the US led world depression. Yes it is the US leading the world again. Mr Stiglitz takes the pure Economist view of the world far too seriously. The US current policy is the following.
Nothing will be done for income distribution inequality, or the instability of the economy that always had to grow at the expense of the environment and our future.
The taxpayer base and government income from taxes will shrivel up as the jobless rate soars. Even what little of Corporate tax that is actually collected will decrease.
International effects on major traders, for example Japan and China, will rebound back to the US and around the world.
In this world where all things are interconnected, there might even be the small slowdown in the accelarating rate of carbon emissions, much better than all fledgeling fake and fraudulent markets for emissions trading.
Another plus is economic activity reduction everywhere slow the rate of all other environmental destruction.
All we need now is to seriously attempt to curb population growth. This would be an effective way to reduce the future numbers of suffering people for the last generations of all left alive at the termination of our short remaining lease on planet Earth.
So carry on the Obama team, you are doing great work, at least on dismantling the Economy, with the US dollar and Empire to follow. Greed and Stupidity has to be made to work, since nothing else ever has, where foresight, science and ethics have completely failed to convince or motivate the behaviour of human masses.
Of course, I know nothing of high finance,only what I'm learning now, reading all of this...But ...
I watched the president last night... I'll have to say... It all sounded pretty good tome.
I mean, the way he answers, he takes apart the details, explains, uses examples. I get that some hear those numbers, trillions of debt for the future and it doesn't sound good. But, he's also right in saying we HAVE TO ADDRESS THE ENERGY PROBLEM, WHICH ALSO MEANS THE CLIMATE PROBLEM, WE HAVE TO MEET THE EDUCATION CHALLENGE, AND IT'S NOT HIS FAULT THAT THE BRIDGES AND ROADS IN THIS COUNTRY HAVE BEEN LEFT TO TEETER UNTIL THEY COLLASPE AND KILL PEOPLE ON THEIR WAY TO WORK.
So, in other words, all these issues could have been worked on over the last few decades. But noooooo... we all let it slide by because why? I'ts all too expensive. Well, it's just like letting your house go unrepaired, your bills pile up and your health go to pot. Then all of a sudden you wake up... and not what a mess you've gotten yourself into...
Right, so let's fix the roads, repair the schools, etc, NOT bail out the criminals who bankrupted us through their greed and fraud. Also, end the blood-sucking wars, and markedly reduce military spending. It's stupid and disingenuous to throw money at the banks without re-instituting the Glass-Steegle Act or some similar regulation. It's like trying to put band aid on an infected wound. And we MUST scrap the free trade agreement we have now, else the 'good jobs' will never come back; we'll be scrubbing toilets while cursing under our breaths (if we can even get those jobs). Ironically, Mexico may help break the free trade fiasco if it places tariffs on our goods. I predict it will happen sooner or later with China as well when they determine it is no longer profitable to finance our debt. Then we'll have to rebuild our decimated manufacturing base. It will be a slow painful process with much impoverishment ahead. Obama is a very likable guy, but that is not enough if he does not move quickly to break the choke hold of bad policy.
Sounded pretty rehearsed and scripted to me with a obligatory question regarding the bonuses.
The bonuses are a distraction from the real question of the historical transferral of wealth to wealth to sustain their lavish lifestyle and the draining of all our revenue to subsidize hedge fund gambling. We are the bank for the monied class while their front man talks about the problems of entitlements.
Not one question about Obama appointing all the crooks who started the wheels in motion, now driving the car into the ditch.
Hi from Australia!
We need to make the case to "Joe the Plumber" that he is voting against his interests.
We're not all pacifist vegans. It's OK to be wrong, We were bombarded by 100 years of anti-communist propaganda.
That's the genius of Chomsky, Dean Baker and Stiglitz etc. Bring on the Progressive economists.
Kucinich for Prez!!
Thanks for joining us from Australia. Although from your comments you appear to be American.
We need to make the case to "Joe the Plumber" that he is voting against his interests.
Lol! JTP knows he is voting against his interests. After analyzing my talks with several conservatives, he likely believes at least one of the following:
1. The "higher ups" got there because they worked hard, are better than him, and deserve to make whatever money they are paid.
2. Some day he is going to get rich and powerful, and he can't have the government (or liberals) taking away his power and money to control other people.
"We" refers to progressives worldwide- I'm not a victim of cultural imperialism.
It seems to me that many workers have been convinced that their standard
of living is the result of the private sector; even though as Chomsky says-
technology was largely developed in the public sphere. That's what I was suggesting.
I'm recommending "The conservative nanny state" to most people I meet and trying to organize others in my electorate. It's such a shame so few artists/celebrities have endorsed Chomsky's ideas. Good luck to all you guys.
I couldn't simply assume you were Australian. If you were Australian, I wanted to congratulate you on the Australian cricket team winning the South African test series - no other implication intended.
Even if people do not neccessarily endorse Chomsky, I doubt you'll get much opposition on this site for organizing the electorate based on his social ideas.
Stiglitz is right on every count (at least in salvaging capitalism), but it is Summers and Geithner who are calling the shots. Why? Summers locked out Stiglitz with whom he has a a decade long feud, and Krugman likewise was locked out of the Clinton administration for being unable to bite his tongue.
So why did Obama side with the same Wall Street interests that are at the heart of the Democratic Leadership Council and all the treacherous Democrats like Pelosi, Hoyer, Reed, and Emmanuel? He recently declared he is one of these "New Democrats", newly chastened and beholden like their New Labour counterparts to the financial elites.
These folks are paving the way for the rise of fascism of Weimarian proportions. While Bush played the part of the disastrous Kaiser Wilhelm II, Obama and Brown are already establishing the contours of a Weimar-era Depression regime. Scary.
Before going soft on Obama people should consider what the following article says. It's short enough, but packs important information, and important enough that no one should be ignorant of what Prof. Hudson reveals or repeats, whichever applies. It's information the "elites" would certainly prefer to keep secret, but the "cat's out of the bag" now.
Obama couldn't have prevented the economic crisis, which started before he was elected, but he evidently hasn't been providing any real help. So saying he's not doing enough is quite an understatement.
"The Real AIG Conspiracy", by Prof. Michael Hudson, Mar 18 2009
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=12784
The tranparency part is exceptionally true but with congress being responsible(what laugh) to the people's interest don't count on pelosi or reid to do anything about tranparency much less those other much much needed congressional duties such as oversight, accountability, investigations(the private internet sites such as this, the center for investigative reporting and others would actually be the only places the public will get anything close to a full accounting of the dirty criminal tricks the corporate world with the help of congress will reach some people, the msm will NOT provide coverage of their favorite 'sons and daughters' of corporate crap) and regulation. As I have always said: 'it is all about grand larceny' and now I will start adding what has been said before: 'follow the money', doing that should expose a lot of the old school senators and representatives. But, most likely, even with our new president, nothing of the sort will ever get past the back door meetings where the discussion will be how to put-off, obfuscate and deprioritize all of what could help with a real economic recovery.
I also suspect that if the people actually woke up to the shafting that congress is giving them, along with obama's complicity with congress, that by 2 more presidental elections, people that seem to love pelosi and reid so much may actually vote them out but I also doubt that.
But I do want any and every body that have parts in this disaster to be brought up on charges and prosecuted and punished for their crimes.
The U.S.A. could solve their money problems quite easily by selling a few assets. Russia would certainly be interested in buying back Alaska. Japan would be delighted to buy the Hawaiian Islands. Mexico could certainly make an offer for some land such as Texas. The price for Texas should be really cheap considering the Presidents which have come from there. Get rid of it. Guam could be sold to...? And Venezuala could buy Puerto Rico. There! Problem solved. Enough cash to re-capitalize the banks and make some house payments for sub-prime borrowers.
We need a balanced budget, balanced trade, peaceful relations with all foreign states, and a consistently applied rule of law. We have none of these. The dems and repubs support none of these.
Having the working class pay to make the owning class whole after they made hundreds of trillions of dollars of bad decisions is absurd, criminal and treason. Hang (after due process of law) the politicians that have robbed the people.
Columbia class of 1978 and 1981
Two words:
BUY GOLD!
National ownership of the banks without control of the Federal Reserve system would be the worst move of all but Stiglitz explains this when he states "There is no ''mystique'' in finance: The era of believing that something can be created out of nothing should be over."
Who in the government is ready to manage all the banks?
We don't have socialism... only lemon Socialism for the Corporations "too big to fail". But they are too Big to succeed and are bringing down everybody with them.
Well, creating something out of nothing is exactly what the pyramid scheme of private monetary and financial system is built on... not only nothing but negative nothing, massive and growing debt.
what will truly help obama politically is to have his minions propose more and more proposals "to save the financial system" that are transparently outrageous in their trying to save the ultra-rich who are financially exposed to trillions in toxic investments.
and the left should welcome geithner's proposal as a great teaching moment regarding the fortunes the demoblicans are truly trying to save.
lazy leftists should stop proposing personnel to obama and finally make the effort to find out and publicize the names of the billionaires whom the demoblicans are trying to save with our taxpayer money.
this is the greatest chance offered to americans to learn who are the billionaires that wag the usa dog and to rebel against them and their bribed politicians, journalists, and economists.
the idiotic left should stop complaining about "WS and the banks" and ask the american people if they really want to bail out this or that individual billionaire.
the billions that geithner wants now are not "for the failed banks", they are meant to save the ultra-rich !
even publicizing crude macro-economic data about how many trillions in toxic assets are in the hands of say the richest 0.1% would be very game-changing as it would suffocate the obfuscations of the demoblicans that they are acting for the public good.
demoblicans blackmail americans by crying wolf about "saving the financial system" but they won't be able to blackmail anybody anymore if they are compelled to cry wolf about "saving the billionaires".
even conservatives will find it hard to defend spending trillions in "welfare programs" for gambling billionaires.
only once the citizenry will start saying that it does not want to pay for the financial gambling follies of the richest 0.1%, etc., it will become feasible for obama to go against the billionaires, since at that point taking him out won’t be worthwhile for the billionaires.
Were also you saying this when Bush and his "minions" bailed out Bear Stearns, then later came back for the $700. billion?
Expanding on his statement in the Washington Monthly last week, an interview with James Galbraith in Manager-Magazin (a publication of Der Spiegel) takes up the issue of bankruptcy. In an echo of Lyndon LaRouche, Galbraith says the key aspect of bankruptcy, in addition to clearing the books, is the installation of new management. "When a bank is insolvent ... they becomes perverse," he said. "The incumbent management has good reason to gamble excessively and to make capital losses," or to loot the institution, in the form of bonuses, before the losses can be discovered.
"The way it usually works in the U.S.A.," he said, "is that a bank is closed on Friday and re-opened on Monday under a new name, with a new leadership and with a team of examiners who are going through the books.... A change of management is essential, because firstly, the incumbents are responsible, whether they were culpable or not, and secondly, you need new people who are in line with the public purpose of this re-organization. It's the same principle in the Navy: When a ship runs aground, the captain is removed, no matter if he caused the accident or not."
The industry has come up with terms, like "liars loans," or his favorite "neutron loans" (which kill the people, but leave property intact), in order to avert the question of culpability. Even the notion of "systemic failure" and "bubble" tend to this direction. The reality of the financial crisis is that it was caused by a "culture of complicity," he said. "There are moments where the state has to assert its autonomy," and right now, "it's about time to make these bankers work for the public rather than having the public work for the bankers."
Henry, You state "In an echo of Lyndon LaRouche.." Are you familiar with this character? LaRouche is a former Marxist turned hardend neo-con who was sent to jail for all sorts of corrupt activities. While still a Marxist back in the early seventies he had several members of another faction of self-proclaimed Marxists severely beaten for having opposed his -- what he considered to be genuine Marxist ideals. Like a religous fundamentalist, only his views are genuine whether he be spewing "Marxism" as he claims to have been or the neo-con views he espouses today. I hear he and Limbaugh are great friends -- whether or not that's true, I don't know but they ARE cut from the same cloth.
Nobody understands the current financial crisis...least of all bankers who are in position because of who they know: not what they know.
A deregulated financial industry has taken simple fixed rate mortgages and created an out-of-control financial plague. When we get to the point where we are creating financial instruments out of thin air, we are totally screwed.
I love the derivatives that have no underlying mortgages or collateral as their basis. Find a CMO or CDO that you like and clone it. When your model goes up, your clone goes up; when the model goes down, the clone goes down.
Cut this clone into tranches, marry the tranches to unnatural partners (i.e. a mortgage clones with bets on the superbowl), turbo charge it through extreme lverage, retranche it and market it to unsuspecting towns in northern scandinavia....
At each step of the process, there is another model maker who adds a twist that only he/she knows. One does not understand what the other knows...no-one understands the whole...least of all the bankers.
In order to unwind AIG we have to retain all the model makers...since each one sort of understands their part of the mess. The problem being, you do not recognize your part of the model since it has been so twisted out of shape by successive model makers.
All we can do is through money against the problem...like antibiotics against the plague. Giethner has not clue. Sumners has no clue.. No one has a clue.
Maybe we have found a drug resistant plague ... bring on the rapture
I love the derivatives that have no underlying mortgages or collateral as their basis. Find a CMO or CDO that you like and clone it. When your model goes up, your clone goes up; when the model goes down, the clone goes down.
Or you can create an anti-clone. Bet against the model's success. The variations are many.
...the problem being, you do not recognize your part of the model since it has been so twisted out of shape by successive model makers.
It is not that the people do not know the big picture. They know exactly what they are doing. They pretend to be stupid or ignorant, because we do not prosecute people for stupidity, and we let people off for ignorance. The instruments are an easy way to make millions without producing anything tangible that benefits society. By selling the junk around the globe, they made it extremely difficult for the US government not to bail them out when the inevitable crash occurred.
Each model maker may be ignorant of the specifics of other models, but the big picture was and continues to be apparent to most people who take the little bit of time to work out the mechanics of this operation.
Time to dismantle this industry and ask those slavers to retrain themselves to produce something of value, just as they did to those factory workers who learnt a trade through hard work only to have their skills thrown out the window to increase the profit of a few corporations.
Sioux Rose
DUCK: Good analysis. Just a point, however, in your last paragraph I believe you meant to say we THROW (not through, that is how a piece of string comes through a needle) money against the problem.
There is no ''mystique'' in finance: The era of believing that something can be created out of nothing should be over.
Is this Stiglitz acknowledging that we need a systemic overhaul of the financial industry - that it should not account for 20% of a country's GDP, and we ought to treat exotic financial instruments such as derivatives as gambling?
Until now the focus has been solely on saving Wall Street. The NY confluence of Fed and bankers who define the solution set in Washington have paid no attention to the damage being done to the real economy - for the simple reason that they don't care about the economy we live in. They care about preserving their privileged status, their ability to buy legislation, their ability to sway policy to maximize their profits, and their royalty lifestyle. In short, their perspective is skewed. Do they know that the real economy never recovered from the early 80s crisis? Of course they do. Do they know that they pumped it up on credit and serial bubbles? Of course. Did they know the consequences for stringing out the economy on credit? They did. Do they know that they are now attempting to transfer the bad debts of those who partook in this fake prosperity to those who didn't? They do. But it's only class warfare when we notice.
Sioux Rose
PITCH FORK: Wise words. I was thinking about the housing bubble, the decade that saw prices of homes escalate at rates that were NEVER natural. I thought about the real estate agents anxious to make their commission on these fictional sums, about the bankers passing out loans knowing lots of people didn't cut the wages to truly support lifestyles in often lusted-after domestic behemoths. So much paper money was CREATED by artificially boosting home prices, a process that began in the late l980's.
When I first moved to Key West, there were these poorly built homes that were actually made with materials one notch above those in manufactured mobile homes. A specific set of dwellings (that establish my point) consisted of 4 units, each with its separate yard and entrance way giving the appearance of a private home. The price tag when I arrived was $59,900 but by the l990's, the cost on each was well over $100,000. I used to laugh thinking that by the time the 30 year mortgage expired, NOTHING viable would be left standing. I saw these units go into the ballpark of nearly $200,000 a pop, and a friend who had a really run down trailer on a small canal told me her place was evaluated at over $200,000.
It's this kind of NONSENSICAL over-evaluation of so-called worth that propped up, or inflated the balloon. Like a fiscal chess game, seems all this was recognized strategically from the get-go. Loans against these engineered sums became what got leveraged on Wall St. Ultimately the artificial driving up of prices BEGAN the process of collapse. What goes up must come down, and indeed, now we hear and feel the grand thud.
A lot of persons were complicit, although I blame far less the local realtor capitalizing on this excess pool of perceived wealth, than the ones on Wall St who took those already inflated evaluations, treated them as tangible proof of worth, and then began to cannibalize their own system of wampum by using mathematics to exploit their booty to exponential degrees. And now the taxpayers who were NOT part of the game are being told it is their responsibility to make good on these bets. It truly is an unbelievable assault on the citizenry, but I suppose those who lost children to a war of aggression based on fixed cause must feel those of us losing money got the better end of the stick. It is indeed a STICK-UP of massive proportions! And those on the "side of the law" are of course the ones demanding the money... all for a good cause, all for patriotism, all for (name your icon).
Exactly. Today on PBS I saw the Toll Brothers CEO mentioning they had an uptick in sales this past weekend. It was the best uptick in a year. He stated they sell homes in the $600,000 range. It made me sick.
I live in one of those "manufactured homes" you spoke about here in Vermont. They are much better made than in the old days. It's paid for and I don't have to worry about a mortgage and the rat race. Vermont is a rent control state so the park owner can't gouge us with high lot rent. I have a one third acre lot and live quite well with 1,000 square feet of house on my wooded rented lot at $415 a month. If more people would "get real" about what a house should really sell for and also stop looking down there nose at "trailer trash" like me, we would have a healthier and less indebted populace. Try driving a regular home down a turnpike at 50 mph and see how it holds up. Manufactured homes are r-18 plus insulated now and are far stronger than a stickbuilt home.
Sioux: Out of curiosity, is your last name really Rose. The reason I ask is because that is my last name. Hey, maybe we're related somewhere along the way!
Sioux Rose
Yes and no. And it's a common name. Thanks for asking. We could be related in spirit...
Where is the action behind the rants, raves or is all just rhetoric?
I've heard people call for a general strike on several posts. What do you say... one day a week?
Which day would be the most productive and least or most noticeable to your boss?
Maybe just use a sick day here or there?
Forgetting to pay your federal taxes?
A voluntary layoff or reduction in work hours to zero out your tax liability?
On your “day off” hold up a very large sign on a bridge with a sign stating, "Jail the Bankers" or 'Jail Geithner and Barnacke"?
Boycott US/Citigroup/etc (does not really matter which Bank) by pulling your money out?
Place your money in a credit union instead.
Boycott Wall Street by getting rid of your 401k investments.
Write a letter to the editor a couple times a month.
Boycott foreclosures by supporting squatter’s rights? Put your body, mind or greenbacks to work by helping those who are the most hurt.
Go out and start a garden to feed yourself and your neighbors, rebuild or get a really good used bicycle or two, do some gathering and get ready for a long hard winter and summer. We may no longer be able to live like 21-century royalty anymore. Maybe 19-century royalty will do?
I am sure there are plenty more tangible things that people could come up with.
Words are just rhetoric and thus meaningless without actions to back them up.
Have fun prying your freedoms back from the masters and the elite.
"BAILOUTS: Because tax cuts didn't siphon money to the top fast enough."
Qbaldsmoove, March 2009
Or how about this:
"Bailouts: conservatives should like them because they are like tax cuts on steroids."
I would like to see what all the proud progressives would do if they had a Gun to there head. Like anyone running the country does. You all act like little children. I don't mean to be disrespectful, but you do. If you were running a country you would be faced with the same problem.
You progressives want to do good. You want to do what's best for the people. BUT, in order to get into a position that would allow you to do that. You have to make some sacrifices. You want to move up, got to give up some of your principles. No its not fair, and no its not right. But that's the reason why the GOOD GUYS, never get to run the show. They only get so far.
So.... If you want money for that school, YOu need to pass "Insert Bill" through congress. Now you have a decision to make. Do you deny the bill that's going to make some people rich and is a probably riddled with evil and ruin your chances of getting the money for the school kids? Or do you pass the bill that's not something you believe in, in order to save a couple thousand kids.
Now put that on a larger scale and that's what its like in politics. So its real easy on your keyboards to say what Obama, or any person in power should do. Because you don't have to make those decisions. You don't have to walk the tight rope of what is right, and what is possible.
What can be done, and what you want to be done. You all think principle is enough. And its not. I have cried many nights wishing it was. Wishing that because I was honest and noble, that things would go my way. And life is not like that.
And as adults you all should know that life is not like that. You know that there is no perfect choice. Its a little evil and a little good.
SO just stop please. And figure out a way to change the system, or help make it so the person in charge doesn't have to make such decisions.
Here's what you do: make any campaign contributions illegal, and no candidate can use their own funds for a campaign. No gifts allowed, no perks, etc. Since elected officials are supposed to be representatives of the people of their districts, then the People should fund campaigns through tax revenues.
To fund campaigns, all candidates get "X" dollars from the local, state, or federal gov'ts, and nothing more, (adjusted for cost of living index for each candidate's region and for inflation per election cycle). Full and transparent records would be kept. Any monies would be used only for campaigning (not for personal use), and if for some reason a candidate drops out of a race, all remaining monies would be returned to the gov't. The same would apply for Presidential races. Perhaps TV/newspapers could donate air time/ad space as a public service in equal amounts to all candidates. If a candidate has spent his/her allotment too quickly, no more would be given and most likely that candidate's race would be over.
This would go a long way towards keeping the private/corporate monied interests from steering potential legislation. But it won't happen because Congress will never vote to stop their own gravy train.
That is but one of a series of steps necessary to rid our government of the influence of the small minority that now runs the damn thing. An important step to be certain. But how to accomplish it is the real question, dontcha think?
I believe that the growth of third party politics, free of the taint of corporate monies is one solution. That it will take more time than people seem willing to admit is moot, that , once there are enough independents and third party people in the halls of congress then there will be a chance to put forth such legislation, and more.
"That it will take more time than people seem willing to admit "
This is key. If you genuinely want there to be an alternative, or better yet, alternatives, to the Republicans and Democrats, saying "I voted for Nader / whomever, I told you so, my conscience is good and safe", is nowhere no how close to being enough.
Voting third party is but one step, but an important one.
Get a clue:
http://www.counterpunch.org/donnelly03242009.html
Thanks much for that excellent and rather scathing piece. I wonder if 'king of kings' actually read the thing?
Oh but I do have a clue, I have a clue that our country has been crooked since it was founded.
And I know the reasons why, as well your self and most others on the site no the reasons, because we are all very intelligent and resourceful. The problem I have is with the blame game. And the Obama isn't this or isn't doing this. Until the Progressive left pull together, we will continue to be ignored. Because we blame, but have no way to fix the problem. We are focused on what Obama is doing wrong but not why he is or has to do it that way.
It's easy to blame Obama because he is at the top. But there are 535 Congressmen, there is our capitalistic Economy, and there is our pay to play Political System. So what I want people to understand is Obama is just one part of the problem. Take him out, and put in who ever you want right, left, center, progressive, regressive, it doesn’t matter, the system gets what it wants how ever it wants, and it puts in or puts out, what ever head of state that can or can not accomplish those goals.
Change the system, be mad at the system, Obama is just a cog in the machine.
Oh, I get it--
Just bend over.
No that's not even what I said. Now Vern don't be like that.
All I am saying is if you drive a car down a street covered in nails you will get a flat tire. No matter how many times you replace the tire, or even buy a new car, you will never make progress until you clean up the nails in the street.
The President is the tire, or the car. The Nails are the system. Until people help clean up the 535 nails in the road. It doesn't matter what drives down the road its destined to fail.
Not all of the 535 are crooked, but if more than half of them were good willed. Than Giant corps couldn't buy them. Therefore, the government would be for the people by the people again.
Our Elected officials would then work for us, and not for them. At the present time, it's the opposite. So I fear that the Obama hatred leads people to believe he is the problem, were I feel who ever was in the Big Chair would be doomed because the system is what needs to be changed.
So you advocate a revolutionary change that comes without criticism of the current leader of the free world and his actions or inactions...Good luck with that, King.
All the leading liberal economists (Krugman, Stiglitz, Galbraith & Dean Baker) have reacted in basically the same way to the latest Obama-Geithner bank bailout plan. Though none of them is a leftist radical, they all say, in so many words, that the plan is essentially an attempt to shift the burden of paying for the crisis onto the taxpayer, while potentially providing huge gains to zombie bank executives, hedge funds & private equity firms (in other words, the very "Masters of the Universe" who caused the crisis).
Obama was supposedly the "lesser evil" candidate in the election, yet has already shamelessly sold out 99% of the population to benefit his real constituency -- the Wall St oligarchy. The sums that are involved are so immense that US society as a whole will never recover. The Wall St guys will continue to live in obscene luxury, but the rest of the population will be paying for this latest Democratic Party betrayal for perhaps the next 50 or 100 years.
On top of that, Obama (whom most antiwar voters supported) is continuing the wars, expanding military spending, escalating the war in Afghanistan, & clearly intends to completely ignore the issue of holding Bush admin criminals accountable for their crimes & abuse of power. (In other words, Obama is no better than Nancy Pelosi in this respect. They're both cut from the same cloth.) Single-payer health care is "off the table."
There are certain limited ways in which the Obama admin seems better than the Bush admin. (Even here, though -- for instance on matters like "closing Gitmo" -- it's mostly better public relations, rather than better policy.)
Try to remember the period back in the run-up to the election, when Lesser-Evilists justified their Obama vote by arguing that he could win (while "McSame-Palin" were such monsters); & that "we would then hold Obama's feet to the fire." Doesn't that seem bitterly hilarious, in retrospect? Apparently, he was much too quick for us. He sold us out before we could do any of that fancy feet-to-fire-holding.
Only 2 months into his term, the "lesser evil" candidate has already handed our financial future over to the tender mercies of financial gangsters, reduced the living standards of our children & grandchildren, while protecting war criminals, & continuing operations of the war machine. Two cheers for the Democratic Party!!
You are exactly correct. My only consolation is that I wrote in Ron Paul (yes even though the state of New York did not count the vote).
DAVE BRONSTEIN: Excellent analysis of the situation!
A few of us saw this coming and when we said we couldn't vote for Obama we were called names by Democratic Party apologists, who STILL insist he's performing modest miracles. When we pointed out his cabinet positions and circle of insiders, we were told not to cast dark shadows on his administration. So, what are we to do? Write your Senator or Congressperson?
Did that too, and when I ask two distinct questions, I get a reply on only one, after the fact, and she is a so-called "liberal." The other Republican-friendly Senator is opposed to the Employee Free Choice Act, and was a staunch Bush enabler.
Issue after issue...they throw us an occasional bone and gleefully watch our tails wag while we are occupied in the "delicacy," but they made sure the meat was "carved" off the bone first.
The whole system is rotten to the core. Whoever has the most money gets the most representation.
Bitterly hilarious. I eagerly await the unwashed who elected this fraud holding him accountable. Go for it, folks. They've already turned making excuses for him into our only growth industry. He's already turned belittling the Left into his best sound bite for being for all the people - all the insurance companies, hedgies, brokers, banksters, pharmaceuticals, defense contractors and communications spy masters.
Good comment. I try to look at it as a dynamic situation, where the Republicans are constantly evolving into a more grotesque, more fascist, more elitist, more reckless, more malicious, and more insane party, while the Democrats have become, over the past few decades, a party that does its very best to match the Republicans in subservience to the agenda of the corporatists, the MIC, and the wealthy elites, with the difference being that they are usually a little more careful, tasteful, and polished.
Sioux Rose
KIVALS: Accurate characterization, but the bottom line is that they both serve the same masters, and that is what David B constantly and profoundly points out. It's pretty scary that things have gotten this bad, become such blatant sell-outs, with people only given the ILLUSION that they have any choice (politically) in the matter at all. It does take time to build a 3rd party, and any party requires air time and media space to make its agenda known. The logistics of setting this force into motion have been largely blocked before they can begin. Like mice caught in a maze, we (conscious citizens) have got to find the ways and means to transcend the apparent walls, boundaries, and definitions being imposed by those who wish to keep the population caged. As some find the way, others will follow. Time to fly over the cuckoo's nest.
S Rose,
You cannot deny that at least 80% of the commenters here for two years before the election said it was going to be the same ole same ole unless there was enough support for a third party candidate.
Obviously, it didn't happen in 04, 06 nor 08. Therefore ...
Was it not feasable to pay all the mortgages going into default and stem the collapse at its root? Considering the Fed has put out over 7 trillion in loans and guarantees and I believe the Treasury has directly or now indirectly given the Banksters about .5 trillion. All the cash would go into the banking credit system,there would be no payout due on the CDSs and the homeowners would be with homes.
AIG wrote insurance for hundreds of trillions of dollars of financial transactions. Only a small part involved home mortgages. It is the UNDER priced insurance it wrote on hundreds of trillions of dollars of derivative products that then went unprofitable that it is unable to pay. Who fault should this be the buyers of the insurance that was sold at a price "too good to be true" and they knew it or you and I the tax payers?
Don't you know there is a "moral hazard" for allowing non-elites to benefit from any government program? The hoi polloi might start having expectations then, don't you see?
Yeah, And Cancel All Credit Card Debt Too!
Since we're stuck with the unworkable trickle down and since nationalizing banks is preferable to a system where losses are socialized, gains privatized, and with time's running out, what's holding back public ownership of banking & finance? So-Market ideology uber the common good, that's what. When will we learn, when will we ever learn?
I believe that this step is in the offing. We just have to await the failure of another plan or three....
In the novel "Babbit" the protagonist says, "Gotta hustle". That seems all that's left for this nation. We will hustle ourselves into the grave.
Ultimately, shoring up the banks alone is doomed to fail, even if more money is freed up for lending. What good is it if would-be borrowers have too little or no income to secure a loan? One wonders if those promoting a race to the bottom thought this far ahead, or even cared as they were reaping huge SHORT TERM benefits. There profits were/are intimately tied to consumers consuming. Cheap prices and credit provided grease for the failing engine for awhile; this engine was doomed to fail from the get-go. Perhaps they did not anticipate it failing so dramatically or so soon. For those with eyes to see, it proves the fallacy of wealth imbalance, and the foolish policy of not raising all boats. Indentured servitude works for NO ONE long term. Sadly, it appears it will take something even more catastrophic than what is happening today to change the status quo, but by then it may be too late.
Using more trickle down economics to cure the massive problems caused by the policy of trickle down economics, is like trying to sober up a drunk by giving him more alcohol. Look for things to get worse!
Exactly! The hangover hits the alcoholic hard, so he has another drink and feels better ... for awhile ... and then he drinks more ... and eventually he dies. This is exactly what is happening, by analogy, to "our" financial system.
Sioux Rose
STONE: Good analogy. Thanks for posting it.
No. It is a false analogy. It assumes everyone is an alcoholic. It assumes everyone suffers from the vanity of greed as well as the vanity of frugality. Drunks do not experience hangovers simply because they always have alcohol in their systems. Besides the alcoholics muse is hardly the muse of a corporate bean counter or investment banker the prefer something more energetic like cocaine.
Joseph E. Stiglitz has written an excellent article on the current economy. His 9 bullet outline of recommendations are concise and compelling.
"Policies must not be based on the fiction that good loans were made, and that the business acumen of financial-market leaders and regulators will be validated once confidence is restored."
He is 100 percent on target with this point. What we don't need is a reboot of the same old, same old reckless and unethical economic system. Executives were not making good loans, they were loan sharking to sucker people into high interest loans, loans that they were unqualified to get. As far as I am concerned firing every last single executive involved in creating this tsunami of toxic loans needs to get fired. We need to purge the system of the crooks. Then we need to restart in a different direction.
I'll agree. Stiglitz should be a part of the Obama economic/financial team and not Summers and Guenthner (did I spell his name correctly? Oh well you know who I mean). Geithner -- that's it isn't it?
Geithner it is , and Stiglitz it should be....or any number of less wedded to the system folks.
These financial guys gambled knowing full well that they would be rescued by our tax money. Now Geithner and Summers put forth a plan that encourages more gambling, requires more risk to taxpayer money, and will be a stretch to sell anyway.
Well, I guess winning the presidency was not only the limit on Obama's ambition, it was the limit of his capability.
Actually, he's doing his job exactly according to plan. He hoodwinked the American people. The plan was to transfer as many trillions from the public to the private as quickly as possible. He knows full well what's he's doing. To say that he's not "doing enough" is laughable. He's not even trying to do what we need him to do. The American people still don't get it. Will they ever?
Exactly right. Will the American people ever get it, or will the next election also be like Lucy holding the football? The Left never questioned why the media anointed Obama, but it was the same media who anointed GWB and sold the Iraq War. They sure had themselves a party, though, beating up on the boomers and calling people racists... sigh.
"The Left never questioned why the media anointed Obama"? You got to be kidding. What Left? The American Left cannot be called even Leftover. This system was in making for well over 4 centuries, 233 years alone in this country and you want one Superman, whatever his/her name to even challenge it. Even the last 30 year War (1914 – 1945) could not crash this system: infamous Parker’s Raid started immediately after 10 Days that Shook the World. And that real Left makes current Left just laughable!
The good news is that American Capitalism is a cancer that eats itself. Our financial system’s DNA is programmed for the unlimited growth, as was well understood by no lesser authorities as Adam Smith and Karl Marx, not unlike plague or HIV virus are. So, a remedy for such deceases is red hot irons of Revolution. Left without intelligent guidance, the coming tsunami won’t be a pretty picture.
v.purto
No I think you don't get it. Let me first start of by saying I am no huge fan of Obama. That should squash any comebacks that may stem from my post.
Now, the problem is we allowed the past 8 years to happen. We also allowed the past 30 years to happen. From Regan on up. Now that there is a new Head, we expect the body to do something different.
Obama is not some super magician who is getting over on the American people. He is a guy with great ambition, the same as Regan, Bush, Clinton, Bush. He is in a system that will only allow him to do so much. Many people to please, many people to piss off.
I really wish that a third party member would have been elected. Just so I can sit here and watch people like you whine and complain because Nader, or Kucinich, or McKinney would be in the same spot. Except they would be getting NOTHING done.
Not because they are evil, and not because they don't want to save the world. But because the system will not allow that to happen. The Media would spin that person right out of existence. They wouldn't be able to please any one but the progressives and the like minded few. Which is great, but, that doesn't get anything accomplished in Congress, because we don't live in a progressive country.
So all this Obama hatred is just an excuse to continue the same. Everyone wants it there way, no one wants to compromise.
I don't think its right, and I don't think its fair. But until the damn country wakes up, and isn't afraid to read a book, or research what "Socialized Medicine" is. Or find out how the rich keep people thinking they are going to win the lottery one day and be rich too, so they better not change the rules.
We are screwed. Obama has been in office for 2 months. And Bush did 8 Years of damage. Obama is not perfect, and his plans will not be either.
But you have got to get off the high horse. Please. The "I told you so" BS makes you look silly. Not the person that voted in what they "Thought" would be in their best interests.
"But because the system will not allow that to happen."
O Rei de Reis,
So Mr. Obama is nothing but a figure head? Indeed, Mr. Obama's economic plans will help no one but the Wall Street insiders. I know this, Krugman, and Stiglitz knows this and Mr. Obama and Geithner knows this.
This adds up to "Mr. Obama is a shill of the ruling elite."
Stop acting as an apologists for a corrupt leadership headed by Mr. Obama.
Well, someone doesn't get it apparently.
The focus is quite naturally on the Chief Executive, remember that is where the buck stops after all. Except that the buck is only passing through the Oval Orifice on its way to further enriching the same sleazy bastards that wrecked our economy. There is, despite your protestations and recriminations directed at the left, genuine reason to criticize ( not hate as you distort to make a poor point).
I have read many posts here that make excellent points, that correctly analyze the appointments of Obama that fail to include progressives, that rightfully criticize his mideast policies that continue a war footing doomed to repeated failure. I do nto read much in the way of hatred at all, though I do read silly posts from, time to time. That is certainly to be expected from a public forum but they certainly are outweighed by thoughtful and intelligent criticisms.
You yourself seem a bit guilty of fuzzy logic when you correctly note that the system is to blame and then refuse to allow ( good luck with that) any critical commentary on the master of that system, the guy who has managed to work the system for a very short time and arrive at the top. Bottom line 'O king of kings(?)' you aint the king, and criticism is not only necessary and welcome , it is a very important part of our democracy.
Well, there is another thread advocating we all go out in the streets and protest again?
As if it ever worked with Bush.
Every single voice that matters has expressed objections and Obama shrugs it off with a laugh and it gets increasingly more difficult for him to muster any sincerity when he recites his lines.