Subscribe to Common Dreams News Updates
Most Popular This Week
Popular content
Today's Top News
Gov. Walker in Prank Call: 'This is Our Moment'
“This is our moment, this is our time to change the course of history,” Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker says, talking about his fight with the unions in a prank phone call that was secretly taped by a Buffalo journalist Ian Murphy of the BuffaloBeast.com website who was posing as billionaire oilman David Koch.
Koch Industries' political action committee was one of the biggest financial supporters of Walker's gubernatorial campaign last fall, giving $43,000 to his political fund.
David Koch also gave $1 million to the Republican Governors Association last year, and Koch Industries contributed another $50,000. The RGA spent $65,000 on ads supporting Walker and an additional $3.4 million attacking Mayor Tom Barrett, Walker's Democratic opponent.
'Koch': We’ll back you any way we can. What we were thinking about the crowd was, uh, was planting some troublemakers.
Walker: You know, well, the only problem with that —because we thought about that. The problem—the, my only gut reaction to that is right now the lawmakers I’ve talked to have just completely had it with them, the public is not really fond of this…[explains that planting troublemakers may not work.] My only fear would be if there’s a ruckus caused is that maybe the governor has to settle to solve all these problems…[something about '60s liberals.]…Let ‘em protest all they want…Sooner or later the media stops finding it interesting.
Governor Walker’s spokesman, Cullen Werwie, today confirmed the taped phone call was real.
"The governor takes many calls everyday. Throughout this call the governor maintained his appreciation for and commitment to civil discourse. He continued to say that the budget repair bill is about the budget. The phone call shows that the governor says the same thing in private as he does in public and the lengths that others will go to disrupt the civil debate Wisconsin is having."
In the conversation, the man posing as Koch — Buffalo Gonzo journalist Ian Murphy — says he’s got a “vested interest" in the success of the governor’s efforts and, when its all over, offers to fly Walker out to California and “show you a good time.”
“All right, that would be outstanding,” Walker says in response. “Thanks for all your support.”
* * * * *
Listen to tape of phone call at the bottom of this page.
The BuffaloBeast.com website has crashed. Here's is the article Ian Murphy published before the crash:
“He’s just hard-lined—will not talk, will not communicate, will not return phone calls.”
-Wisconsin state Sen. Tim Carpenter (D) on Gov. Walker (source)
Carpenter’s quote made me wonder: who could get through to Gov. Walker? Well, what do we know about Walker and his proposed union-busting, no-bid budget? The obvious candidate was David Koch.
I first called at 11:30 am CST, and eventually got through to a young, male receptionist who, upon hearing the magic name Koch, immediately transferred me to Executive Assistant Governor Dorothy Moore.
“We’ve met before, Dorothy,” I nudged. “I really need to talk to Scott—Governor Walker.” She said that, yes, she thought she had met Koch, and that the name was “familiar.” But she insisted that Walker was detained in a meeting and couldn’t get away. She asked about the nature of my call. I balked, “I just needed to speak with the Governor. He knows what this is about,” I said. She told me to call back at noon, and she’d have a better idea of when he would be free.
I called at noon and was quickly transferred to Moore, who then transferred me to Walker’s Chief of Staff Keith Gilkes. He was “expecting my call.”
“David!” he said with an audible smile.
I politely said hello, not knowing how friendly Gilkes and Koch may be. He was eager to help. “I was really hoping to talk directly to Scott,” I said. He said that could be arranged and that I should just leave my number. I explained to Gilkes, “My goddamn maid, Maria, put my phone in the washer. I’d have her deported, but she works for next to nothing.” Gilkes found this amusing. “I’m calling from the VOID—with the VOID, or whatever it’s called. You know, the Snype!”
“Gotcha,” Gilkes said. “Let me check the schedule here…OK, there’s an opening at 2 o’clock Central Standard Time. Just call this same number and we’ll put you through.”
Could it really be that easy? Yes. What follows is a rushed, abridged transcript of my — I mean, David Koch’s conversation with Gov. Walker.
Walker: Hi; this is Scott Walker.
'Koch': Scott! David Koch. How are you?
Walker: Hey, David! I’m good. And yourself?
'Koch': I’m very well. I’m a little disheartened by the situation there, but, uh, what’s the latest?
Walker: Well, we’re actually hanging pretty tough. I mean—you know, amazingly there’s a much smaller group of protesters—almost all of whom are in from other states today. The State Assembly is taking the bill up—getting it all the way to the last point it can be at where it’s unamendable. But they’re waiting to pass it until the Senate’s—the Senate Democrats, excuse me, the assembly Democrats have about a hundred amendments they’re going through. The state Senate still has the 14 members missing but what they’re doing today is bringing up all sorts of other non-fiscal items, many of which are things members in the Democratic side care about. And each day we’re going to ratchet it up a little bit…. The Senate majority leader had a great plan he told about this morning—he told the Senate Democrats about and he’s going to announce it later today, and that is: The Senate organization committee is going to meet and pass a rule that says if you don’t show up for two consecutive days on a session day—in the state Senate, the Senate chief clerk—it’s a little procedural thing here, but—can actually have your payroll stopped from being automatically deducted—
'Koch': Beautiful.
Walker: —into your checking account and instead—you still get a check, but the check has to be personally picked up and he’s instructing them—which we just loved—to lock them in their desk on the floor of the state Senate.
'Koch': Now you’re not talking to any of these Democrat bastards, are you?
Walker: Ah, I—there’s one guy that’s actually voted with me on a bunch of things I called on Saturday for about 45 minutes, mainly to tell him that while I appreciate his friendship and he’s worked with us on other things, to tell him I wasn’t going to budge.
'Koch': Goddamn right!
Walker: …his name is Tim Cullen—
'Koch': All right, I’ll have to give that man a call.
Walker: Well, actually, in his case I wouldn’t call him and I’ll tell you why: he’s pretty reasonable but he’s not one of us…
'Koch': Now who can we get to budge on this collective bargaining?
Walker: …I think the paycheck will have an impact…secondly, one of the things we’re looking at next…we’re still waiting on an opinion to see if the unions have been paying to put these guys up out of state. We think there’s at minimum an ethics violation if not an outright felony.
'Koch': Well, they’re probably putting hobos in suits.
Walker: Yeah.
'Koch': That’s what we do. Sometimes.
Walker: I mean paying for the senators to be put up. I know they’re paying for these guy—I mean, people can pay for protesters to come in and that’s not an ethics code, but, I mean, literally if the unions are paying the 14 senators—their food, their lodging, anything like that…[*** Important regarding his later acceptance of a Koch offer to “show him a good time.” ***]
[BuffaloBeast.com: I was stunned. I am stunned. In the interest of expediting the release of this story, here are the juiciest bits:]
Walker: …I’ve got layoff notices ready…
'Koch': Beautiful; beautiful. Gotta crush that union.
Walker: [bragging about how he doesn't budge]…I would be willing to sit down and talk to him, the assembly Democrat leader, plus the other two Republican leaders—talk, not negotiate and listen to what they have to say if they will in turn—but I’ll only do it if all 14 of them will come back and sit down in the state assembly…legally, we believe, once they’ve gone into session, they don’t physically have to be there. If they’re actually in session for that day, and they take a recess, the 19 Senate Republicans could then go into action and they’d have quorum…so we’re double checking that. If you heard I was going to talk to them that’s the only reason why. We’d only do it if they came back to the capital with all 14 of them…
'Koch': Bring a baseball bat. That’s what I’d do.
Walker: I have one in my office; you’d be happy with that. I have a slugger with my name on it.
'Koch': Beautiful.
Walker: [union-bashing...]
'Koch': Beautiful.
Walker: So this is ground zero, there’s no doubt about it. [Talks about a “great” NYT piece of “objective journalism.” Talks about how most private blue-collar workers have turned against public, unionized workers.]…So I went through and called a handful, a dozen or so lawmakers I worry about each day and said, “Everyone, we should get that story printed out and send it to anyone giving you grief.”
'Koch': Goddamn right! We, uh, we sent, uh, Andrew Breitbart down there.
Walker: Yeah.
'Koch': Yeah.
Walker: Good stuff.
'Koch': He’s our man, you know.
Walker: [blah about his press conferences, attacking Obama, and all the great press he's getting.] Brian [Sadoval], the new Governor of Nevada, called me the last night he said—he was out in the Lincoln Day Circuit in the last two weekends and he was kidding me, he said, “Scott, don’t come to Nevada because I’d be afraid you beat me running for governor.” That’s all they want to talk about is what are you doing to help the governor of Wisconsin. I talk to Kasich every day—John’s gotta stand firm in Ohio. I think we could do the same thing with Vic Scott in Florida. I think, uh, Snyder—if he got a little more support—probably could do that in Michigan. You start going down the list there’s a lot of us new governors that got elected to do something big.
'Koch': You’re the first domino.
Walker: Yep. This is our moment.
'Koch': Now what else could we do for you down there?
Walker: Well the biggest thing would be—and your guy on the ground [Americans For Prosperity president Tim Phillips] is probably seeing this [stuff about all the people protesting, and some of them flip him off].
[Abrupt end of first recording, and start of second.]
Walker: [Bullshit about doing the right thing and getting flipped off by “union bulls,” and the decreasing number of protesters. Or some such.]
'Koch': We’ll back you any way we can. What we were thinking about the crowd was, uh, was planting some troublemakers.
Walker: You know, well, the only problem with that —because we thought about that. The problem—the, my only gut reaction to that is right now the lawmakers I’ve talked to have just completely had it with them, the public is not really fond of this…[explains that planting troublemakers may not work.] My only fear would be if there’s a ruckus caused is that maybe the governor has to settle to solve all these problems…[something about '60s liberals.]…Let ‘em protest all they want…Sooner or later the media stops finding it interesting.
'Koch': Well, not the liberal bastards on MSNBC.
Walker: Oh yeah, but who watches that? I went on “Morning Joe” this morning. I like it because I just like being combative with those guys, but, uh. You know they’re off the deep end.
'Koch': Joe—Joe’s a good guy. He’s one of us.
Walker: Yeah, he’s all right. He was fair to me…[bashes NY Senator Chuck Schumer, who was also on the program.]
'Koch': Beautiful; beautiful. You gotta love that Mika Brzezinski; she’s a real piece of ass.
Walker: Oh yeah. [story about when he hung out with human pig Jim Sensenbrenner at some D.C. function and he was sitting next to Brzezinski and her father, and their guest was David Axelrod. He introduced himself.]
'Koch': That son of a bitch!
Walker: Yeah no kidding huh?…
'Koch': Well, good; good. Good catching up with ya’.
Walker: This is an exciting time [blah, blah, blah, Super Bowl reference followed by an odd story of pulling out a picture of Ronald Reagan and explaining to his staff the plan to crush the union the same way Reagan fired the air traffic controllers]…that was the first crack in the Berlin Wall because the Communists then knew Reagan wasn’t a pushover. [Blah, blah, blah. He's exactly like Reagan. Won't shut up about how awesome he is.]
'Koch': [Laughs] Well, I tell you what, Scott: once you crush these bastards I’ll fly you out to Cali and really show you a good time.
Walker: All right, that would be outstanding. [*** Ethical violation much? ***] Thanks for all the support…it’s all about getting our freedoms back…
'Koch': Absolutely. And, you know, we have a little bit of a vested interest as well. [Laughs]
Walker: [Blah] Thanks a million!
'Koch': Bye-bye!
Walker: Bye.
* * * *
Phone Call - Part 1
Phone Call - Part 2
114 Comments so far
Show All'Walker: “That’s just it. The bottom line is were going to get the world moving here because it’s the right thing to do…Thanks a million.”'
It's amazing how self-righteous these psychopaths can be!
..
..
Recall the bastard.
Um... Walker became what he is by listening to his wacko father.
was his father also his uncle?
The best part of that twerp Walker dripped down his mama's leg.
Today!
He will be recalled, but it is not possible until Jan2003. Some of the Rep. Senators can be recalled though. Groups are already working on some of them through facebook (getting the organizing to get the paperwork written up n filed right n such before the actual drive takes place. etc)
Madison will see to it that pressure is kept up, boycott johnsonville brats, sargento cheese, and m&i bank as they are all major donors. Let them know why
Scott Walker is a Koch sucker.
"He who wants to fight begins the end of time... Turn the earth to sand and still commit no crime!"
The Moody Blues
Man, don't remember that line. What song?
One More Time to Live
Aside from his delusions of wearing the crown of Ronald Raygun, Walker has revealed himself and his office "for sale" to a buyer. Are we going to pretend that we're a nation of laws, and sweep this under the rug, or launch an inquiry to investigate corruption?
Hopefully people are opening their eyes to the real agenda here to destroy America's middle class and turn us all into corporate serfs.
To investigate corruption, we must trace it back step by step to find its source ... and that source is the Constitution.
Investigate? No, no, how about: "You have the right to remain silent...." Skip to the chase, indict, prosecute, sentence. This man is a criminal of the highest (or should I say, lowest?) order. He is pure slime, a thug, a tyrant, a bully. He has committed crimes against the people of Wisconsin. A bottom feeder that has no place in this society, let alone one in public service. What's his background? Let me guess...another fictitious narrative about pulling himself from his boots? No, just a pampered corporate parasite. A pimple, an ameoba with illusions of grandeur.
Oh America, what have they done to thee.
These are the guys who said, "We earned our money the old fashioned way. We inherited it." Arrogance x 10...
For those CD "progressives" who have been giving the purity test to those protesting in Wisconsin, as if their cause isn't really that big of a deal. Get real, and back them, for this is indeed a battle against those that everyone here has been railing about for years…a decades long corporate takeover of our government, and the absolutely designed decades long attack on the middle class.
Yes both parties have been involved. Yes, the union leaders aren't perfect and have backed Democrats. However, the ultimate destruction of unions, and collective bargaining rights, would be devastating ultimately to the labor laws that everyone here has benefited from.
Sure, all labor laws wouldn't be immediately struck from the books, but those plans to pursue the elimination of labor laws, have already been talked about, and some even published by trade associations.
The Chamber of Commerce wants nothing more than to crush unions. We are all against Chamber of Commerce rationales right?
Remember the article recently, where a state legislator, Republican, talked of the need to repeal the labor laws that prevent child labor?
If you don't think this is a big deal because those folks in Wisconsin aren't pure enough for you, you are completely missing the point.
No, no, no. There's not a damn bit of difference between Democrats and Republicans. At least, that's what everyone on CD says. So therefore it must be true.
Except in those cases when there is a difference.
Yeah. Staying at home in November and refusing to vote on the basis of purity and principles did LOTS of good for this sorry-ass country ...
Sheesh. Thank god my state still has a Dem majority in the legislature -- otherwise they'd be trying to outlaw unions here, too.
Talk about missing the point.
For months you have aggressively advocate supporting Democrats no matter what.
This is about supporting people who stand with us - and happen perhaps to be Democrats. In other words, all of your blather about how leftists would not support Democrats under any circumstances, were helping the Republicans blah blah blah has been proven wrong. Now you are unhappy when Democrats do take a stand, and when leftists support them for that.
You are not happy with people supporting those who stand with us and fight, though. No, you want to leverage this into yet another partisan appeal to get people to support Democrats no matter what, and use this as an opportunity to once again smear the left and those with whom you disagree.
This is hypocritical and shameful.
Especially as one of the main organizers for this is the leader of the local green party as well.
Some of you seem to not realize this is February in Wisconsin. Thousands of people in the streets in the heart of the Midwest in sub-freezing temperatures for hours on end...
and it's growing...
I will tell you quite frankly that there are quite a number of open socialists of various varieties there.
And people are exchanging Ideas...
We had about 30% of the population of the whole city gathered together to protest in the middle of winter. It blows my mind when people are worried about "Purity" with something this big.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
CD posters, indeed, including myself, have harped on how THE CURRENT LEADERSHIP OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY is in large part, indistinguishable from Republicans. We have also, acknowledged, that there are indeed some good Democrats at the national, state, and local levels, such that if THEY were suddenly the power brokers of the Democratic Party, things would be much much different. And that difference, would of course be much, much better, but sadly that isn't reality.
That the greater powers in this country, i.e., the oligarchs, corporatists, fascists, or whatever name you please, are very much in line with, and behind efforts to crush unions, whether through influencing Democratic power brokers, or Republican ones, should be of great interest to Greens, Independents, Socialists, or whoever opposes the current power mongers that are devastating this country.
One of the great principles, supposedly of being on the left, is the willingness to take on the fight for the greater good, such that the battle won, would surely even benefit those who fought against that "good" tooth and nail.
As such, I find it ironic, that some won't even fight for their own good. The same critique of those who "vote against their own self interest", comes full circle.
To not comprehend, that crushing unions has been a long standing goal – and in fact strategic need, by big corporations, to achieve a totally unassailable position of power by removing the final bulwark supporting workers rights – is an egregious oversight, for those who ought not wish to, by proxy, support their stated arch enemy.
Union bosses suck. Some union members didn't get out and protest the wars. Some did. Most haven't called for an end to capitalism. Some harbor such wishes surely. Some may have vehemently protested torture over the phone with their representatives in D.C. Others, may have not given it the time of day.
The purity test of the union bosses, or the union members DOES NOT MATTER.
The overarching battle matters, and it is time to help ourselves battle the powerful elite in this country that want to turn all of us into serfs, and debtors into prisoners, and political dissenters into detainees.
It is time for a bit of good grace toward our fellow Americans, and it is time for some solidarity in that regard, in my not so humble opinion.
I got a problem with lying--and that is what Ian Murphy did. How is it any different from pro-lifers going into Planned Parenthood to trap employees into slipping up on interviews with clients? Or agents infiltrating ACORN to catch them screwing up? Contrast what Murphy did to Julian Assange's Wikileaks: Assange just got a hold of important documents and released the contents to the public. There was no overt attempt to mislead anyone--he just made information available to people. That's different from leading someone on with the purpose of getting him to make incriminating statements. I'm not impressed with what Murphy did.
But somehow Governor Wanker failed to recognize the prank, even when Murphy as Koch urged the governor to use a baseball bat on the protesters. Apparently the governor knows full well that Koch says such things himself, knowing that he is in effect advocating class warfare where the badges all operate on behalf of the billionaires, the Qadaffis of the secret capital of the US, Wall Street.
This compels the conclusion that class warfare to protect the freedoms of the market (i.e. privileges in plain vocabulary) from the public interest was precisely what the authors of the Constitution intended.
This "baseball bat" remark, and that Indiana asst. attourney general's remark about using "live ammunition" on protestors, are just examples of the typical maybe flippant-maybe serious threats of violence that I always hear from USAn right wingers, including a number of personal aquaintances. It is impossible to tell if they are serious or not.
Are right wingers in any other countries like this too?
to: ClassAct
that's a very good turn of phrase,
"The Qaddafi's of Capitalism"
needs no further clarification
Yes, I thought that we might have a hand-wringing, wimpering liberal worrying about "lying" here...
1. First, and most importantly of all, what was so vile about the right wing pranks against ACORN (and presumably Planned Parenthood, if they had pulled it off) was NOT that the right winger O'Keefe was lying or impersonating someone, it is was that the videos or audio recordings were heavily edited and altered to have the ACORN rep. saying things to a "pimp" that he never actually said or spoke to!
2. Secondly, the fascists fight dirty, so must we.
I agree with #1 completely. As for #2, I don't really understand the talk about fascists, I thought this was about Wisconsin politics... But if you meant to say the conservatives fight dirty, then I completely disagree that "so must we," and if you truly believe that, then I think you should reconsider what it means to be a Democrat/liberal. Unlike the other side, we have principles, but principles are only principles when you stick to them. We do not abandon our responsibility to be civil just because the other side has, and, further, doing so will only hurt us in the long run.
(especially considering your above comment about the Republican's rhetoric of violence. Should we employ the same rhetoric, ferment the same hate, as the Republicans? I can only hope you disagree)
As my user name suggests, I am neither a Democrat nor a liberal. And since you don't seem to recognize my user name you mustn't know anything about organizing history.
Unions have failed in organizing drives again and again over 3 decades now because they won't answer the dirty tricks of their bosses and the utterly corrupt boss-owned NLRB with tricks of their own.
When they send the Pinkerton thugs after you, lets see how far your civility get's you.
But you won't ever have to worry about that, because no doubt you are just some fucking rich liberal, (do you even know what the NLRB is?) basking in you bourgeois privilege.
Picasso once said that "Art is a lie that tells the truth"
This stunt was high art, and should be judged as such.
Would you castigate the Yes Men for lying to get the access necessary for their stunts?
Guy Debord would be so loving this!
I am pretty glad you are neither a Democrat nor a liberal. I was worried. Especially after reading your hate filled comment at the end. By the way, I've been middle-middle class my whole life, and my dad was a union worker for almost 40 years. Nice job guessing though.
How can you say the other side has no principles? There's cutting taxes and....
Well, there's cutting taxes.
That's one.
Dogbert,
I'm in agreement with you about the rhetoric.
Damn right. This is a street fight. Go for it! Why play by Queensbury rules when they use knives and guns. Besides, this is a real game, and in a game deception is part of the m.o..
It would be a problem (lying) if the recording misrepresented what the governor said. Sorry, but pulling this sort of prank call is a legitimate thing to do. Usually it's something that's done with a joke or prank in mind. In this case it reveals that the governor is out to bust unions and repeal government by the people for the people and of the people (whatever that Lincoln quote is...)
In the case of Planned Parenthood (iirc) the video was doctored and edited to make it look much worse than what actually happened. That was a lie.
If the tapes were doctored and this interview is not what the governor said, then yes that would be wrong. Of course, if the police call a drug dealer and get him to admit that they want to sell the cop a ton of cocaine few people call that a lie. In some states it might be entrapment, but that's a different issue, after all, this governor hasn't broken any laws has he?
Saturnalia, I like your take on this. The call was very much like the deceptions done by MSM programs like "What Would You Do?" that elicit the truth by falsely setting up situations that aren't real but very well could be. A lot depends on the ethical perspective of the deceiver, but from what I've seen, that's not a problem here. I'm waiting to see if anyone with the MSM asks Walker about his statements instead of dwelling on how "unfair" this was to Walker.
Regardless of his motivation, Walker should his true colors here. Any decent person would have objected to the Koch comments, and Walker didn't.
You have to be kidding. We are losing the battle because you take some superior moral ground? Did you ever read Henrik Ibsen's the Wild Goose about the limits of telling the truth.
One man pretended to be the benefactor David Koch; the other had no pretense and delivered the truth about his sycophantic relationship with his overlord.
What you find troubling is not that government is for sale or that the Koch brothers have a direct pipeline to the governor; or that they are caught affirming their grand design across several states to turn us all in to Serfs. What you find trouble with is that one man pretended to be Koch and the other spilled the beans.
The problem I have is that this is exactly what's wrong with our sniggling, liberal progressive movement. It's cupidity is best described by W.H. Auden:
We would rather be ruined than changed,
We would rather die in our dread
Than climb the cross of the moment
And let our illusions die.
There is no hope for our future without bold and decisive action but we dither in the night afraid to rise above our phony morality.
drosera_____It would be great if everyone told the truth all of the time, but unfortunately that is not reality, especially in politics. One has to fight fire with fire, and in this case it seemed like a perfect idea to get the embarrassing true story out of the Governor, as he is in no way fit for that job. We are fast losing our country to these scoundrels and their payoffs to each other to retain power. Our workers need to be dealt with fairly, and not have to pay for the bankers and billionaires wrecking of our economy.
"Oh, Clarice. Your problem is that you need to get more fun out of life."
You are kidding, right? Tell me that this is satire.
If you "have a problem with lying" why don't you stop doing it? There is no way in hell that you are being honest about why you object to this.
The 20 minute conversation, does not reveal any attempt whatsoever by Murphy, to get Walker to say anything. Walker's braggadocio, was entirely and enthusiastically offered up, with Murphy's affirmation of camaraderie.
The fictional role play, was itself a lie, but one in service of a higher good.
Comparing what Ian Murphy did, with what was done to ACORN is a completely false comparison.
THE big difference between this prank and the ACORN-type crap is WHO is being punked.
The ONLY "victim" or object of the punking in this case were Walker and his team. When the tape was released, the PUBLIC knew who was calling and what their agenda is.
In the case of the ACORN hit, those being punked were the PUBLIC and MEDIA who were sold the lie that what transpired was REAL. The punking of Walker is also quite different from trying to obtain private medical information (about those seeking services) by those misrepresenting themselves, or editing the resultant tapes in an effort to spread lies and creat mistruths in the minds of those observing.
While I have some qualms about misrepresentations of truth, this example is more akin, in my mind, to the teams of Black couples and white couples who went forth to rent homes or take out loans while attempting to gather information about discrimination in housing and lending. These were "lies" also, since the participants were not actually seeking homes or loans and the interviewers were unaware of their true purpose.
If this fizzles out into another Democratic Party love-fest a la Bill Clinton, Jesse Jackson and Moveon, then yes, might as well get it over with -- I would prefer the guillotine to death by a thousand cuts.
However, the events in WI also represent real revolutionary potential, and I agree should not be underestimated.
The absolute worst thing people can do -- and probably will do -- is to settle for the crumbs of Walker's annihilation while cheer-leading the Democratic Party for their brave stance in allowing basic human rights while enthusiastically cutting wages and benefits for working people.
However, since Obama is no Roosevelt, and since the jobs have been shipped to India and China and elsewhere and aren't coming back, the revolution will happen anyway.
The only question is whether the revolution succeeds, and we evolve (or devolve, depending on your outlook) into a sane society or go extinct as a species.
It's really that simple.
There is nothing elites can do to stop it. Not massive violence a la Libya or provocateurs or false flags, the people will revolt. The genie is out of the bottle. The cat's out of the bag. The "internets" phenom that you created via American tax dollars is bearing strange fruit.
Whether we win is up to you. Or Israel, if they launch the Samson Option.
Revolution? By whom?
I look around me and ask questions. Although some people seem uneasy, they have have only vague notiions as to why. Apparently, they prefer not to think much about it.
We got our jobs.
We got our fast food.
We got our gadgets.
We got sports & american idols (??)
Who needs a revolution?
No jobs, crap food, what gadget, what tv, and the dports guys are goin outonstrike...
We need a revolution...cause you gonna be a broke ass sob here pretty damn quick when the crap hits the wall.
I don't think you are very clear on what "revolution" means. How it would work, what it consists in, what it would cost, or even what would be the result. If you think the US is going to have a "revolution" anytime soon, you are surely deluding yourself. I think that figuring out more practical solutions, as the conservatives have been doing quite well for almost half a decade, is probably the only way us liberals are going to ever make a change in our lifetimes in this country.
Dogbert -- sorry, but practical, pragmatic, and incremental progressive change is not tolerated on this blog. You're either waiting for the soccer moms and NASCAR dads to spontaneously rise up in mass revolution against Our Cap[italist Oppressors, or you're hopelessly brainwashed by the Demo-Repub-Corporate machine.
Apparently I'm the latter. Nevertheless I'm with you -- I've watched conservatives systematically push the debate in this country to the right in election after election -- even when they lose -- and I can't help thinking that if we're all waiting for a radical revolution to save us, we'll all be dead first.
Especially if we don't have a clear vision of what the post-revolution systems and structures will look like, and how they will work on a very pragmatic daily basis. 99% of successful, functional, progressive government is unglamorous, day-to-day work.
Most social democracies around the world are the result of steady, systematic, incremental change. No reason that couldn't be the case in the U.S., as well. But it will take a hell of a lot of work.
What you're (not surprisingly) not taking into account is that part of the reason why conservatives have had so much success for the last quarter century is that they exist within the context of a system that's already heavily gamed for their success at the expense of everyone else. Their solutions may look 'practical' because the political system has always been prepared to listen to conservatives and opportunists like the vast majority of Democrats.
It's getting to the point where anyone who isn't a conservative, regardless of what they call themselves, gets anything we want that, ultimately, needs to be fought and struggled for.
What neighborhood do you live in?