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Obama Resists Pressure for Red Line on Iran's Nuclear Capability
WASHINGTON - President Barack Obama's refusal in a White House briefing earlier this month to announce a "red line" in regard to the Iran nuclear programme represented another in a series of rebuffs of pressure from Defence Secretary Robert Gates for statement that the United States will not accept its existing stocks of low enriched uranium.
Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton and Defense Secretary Robert Gates look on as President Barack Obama speaks in Eisenhower Hall at the United States Military Academy at West Point Dec. 1, 2009 in West Point, N.Y. President Obama has struggled to keep his foreign policy team aligned as it maneuvers the Iran-Nuclear question.(Roger L. Wollenberg-Pool/Getty Images) The Obama rebuff climaxed a months-long internal debate
between Obama and Gates over the "breakout capability" issue
which surfaced in the news media last April.
Gates has been arguing that Iran could turn its existing stock of low enriched uranium (LEU) into a capability to build a nuclear weapon secretly by using covert enrichment sites and undeclared sources of uranium.
That Gates argument implies that the only way to prevent Iran having enough bomb-grade uranium for nuclear weapons is to insist that Iran must give up most of its existing stock of LEU, which could be converted into enough bomb-grade uranium for one bomb.
But Obama has publicly rejected the idea that Iran's
existing stock of LEU represents a breakout capability on
more than one occasion. He has stated that Iran would have
to make an overt move to have a "breakout capability" that
would signal its intention to have a nuclear weapon.
Obama's most recent rebuff of the Gates position came in the
briefing he gave to a select group of journalists Aug. 4.
Peter David of The Economist, who attended the Aug. 4
briefing, was the only journalist to note that Obama
indicated to the journalists that he was not ready to lay
down any public red lines "at this point". Instead, Obama
said it was important to set out for the Iranians a clear
set of steps that the U.S. would accept as proof that the
regime was not pursuing a bomb.
Obama appeared to suggest that there are ways for Iran to
demonstrate its intent not to build a nuclear bomb other
than ending all enrichment and reducing its stock of low
enriched uranium to a desired level.
Iran denies any intention of making nuclear weapons, but has
made no secret that it wants to have enough low enriched
uranium to convince potential adversaries that it has that
option.
At a 2005 dinner in Tehran, Hassan Rowhani, then secretary
of Iran's Supreme National Security Council, told George
Perkovich of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace
that Iran didn't need a nuclear weapon, as long as it had
the "mastery of the fuel cycle" as a deterrent to external
aggression.
Gates raised the issue of the Iranian ability to achieve a
breakout capability in a three-page memorandum addressed to
national security adviser Jim Jones in January 2010, as
first reported in the New York Times Apr. 18.
In reporting the Gates memo, David E. Sanger of the New York
Times wrote, "Mr. Gates's memo appears to reflect concerns
in the upper echelons of the Pentagon and the military that
the White House did not have a well-prepared series of
alternatives in place in case all the diplomatic steps
finally failed."
In the statement issued on the memo Apr. 18, Gates said it
"identified next steps in our defense planning process where
further interagency discussion and policy decisions would be
needed in the months and weeks ahead."
The Sanger article appeared eight days after differences
between Obama and Gates over the Iranian breakout capability
issue had surfaced publicly in April.
Obama used an Apr. 1 interview with CBS News to distinguish
between Iran's "trying to develop the capacity to develop
nuclear weapons" from a decision to actually possess nuclear
weapons.
"They might decide that, once they have that capacity that
they'd hold off right at the edge - in order not to incur
more sanctions," he observed. Obama talked about a new
round of international sanctions as his response to that
problem.
Hardliners in Washington wanted Obama to go further. David
E. Sanger of the New York Times invited Obama in an Apr. 5
interview to draw the U.S. red line at an Iranian breakout
capability, Obama refused to do so.
Sanger asked Obama whether the United States could "live
with an Iran that runs right up to the edge" - precisely the
scenario Obama had suggested as a distinct possibility four
days earlier.
Obama's answer made it clear that he understood that Sanger
was pushing the Gates line that there is no obvious
firebreak between Iran's low enriched uranium stocks and a
breakout capability.
"North Korea was said to be simply a nuclear-capable state
until it kicked out the IAEA and became a self-professed
nuclear state," said Obama.
But Gates went public a few days later with a sharply
different position on the issue.
When David Gregory of interviewed both Clinton and Gates on
NBC's "Meet the Press" Apr. 9, he had apparently been
informed about differences of view within the administration
on the issue of an Iranian "nuclear capability."
Gregory asked Clinton, "Is a nuclear-capable Iran as
dangerous as a nuclear state of Iran?" to which Clinton
answered, "Well, clearly weapons are more dangerous than
potential."
Gregory then asked Gates whether a nuclear-capable Iran is
"just as dangerous as being a nuclear state to your mind?"
Gates answered, "Only in this respect: how you differentiate
how far, how far have they gone? If they - if their policy
is to go to the threshold but not assemble a nuclear weapon,
how do you tell that they have not assembled?"
Gates said he didn't know "how you would verify that".
That exchange would have confused anyone who was not an
insider to the Washington policy debate on Iran. The real
issue was not whether the United States could "tell that
they have not assembled" but whether Iran could turn its
stock of low enriched uranium into weapons-grade uranium
without kicking out international inspectors first and
signaling their intentions.
Israel and extreme alarmists in the United States have long
argued that Iran could use covert enrichment sites to enrich
uranium to bomb-grade levels and might have access to
undeclared uranium stocks. But a source familiar with the
issue told IPS that the Defence Department has not been
claiming that there is any intelligence indicating secret
Iranian sites or uranium supplies.
Gates appears to have been trying to maneuver Obama into
adopting a policy under which the United States would have a
reason for threatening Iran unless it agreed to divest
itself of its low enriched uranium stocks and end
enrichment.
Although he has opposed an attack on Iran in both Bush and
Obama administrations, Gates has also been the primary
advocate of creating "leverage" over Iran as well as over
Russia and China in regard to tougher sanctions.
In an interview with Sanger in early 2008, quoted in
Sanger's book, "The Inheritance", Gates said the main
problem he had with the 2007 national intelligence estimate
on Iran was that it "made our effort to strengthen sanctions
more difficult, because people figured, well the military
option is now off the table".
Thus far the Obama administration has not given emphasis to
the threat of U.S. attack on Iran. Instead it has sought to
use the threat of an Israeli attack on Iran as leverage,
even as it warns the Israelis privately not to attempt such
an attack.



78 Comments so far
Show AllThe only hope Iran has (or any other nation really) to be left alone by the US and Israel is if it does acquire nuclear weapons. That's the great gift that the US and Israel have given to the planet, everyone has to be armed with nukes to their teeth if they want real peace.
Notice that the US can only play bully with nations that can't defend themselves, like Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran and countless others. The cowards will never mess around directly with China, Russia or North Korea.
And nations with nukes all have one thing in common, all plundering Empires with a need to terrorize those hell-bent on vengeance.
The US Treasury effectively cut North Korea off from its foreign bank accounts a while back. If that's not effective bullying, what is?
North Korea can still wipe San Francisco and Los Angeles off the California map, for your information. Economic sanctions didn't and won't change that.
I believe delia, you are only correct in an extremely improbable and theoretical sense.
I believe N. Korea only has about four or five warheads and their clumsy missiles may have the range, just barely.
But for N.Korea to actually hit a USA city would have extremely high odds, especially adding the USA ships off N. Korea that could swat them down.
And again the retaliation would be unimaginable.
Now Japan is a possibility if the missiles are not intercepted.
N. Korea being able to actually hit the USA or not (yet) wasn't really my point. My point is that the US only threatens and attacks defenseless nations.
Which leaves the world with no other option but to arm itself with atomic weapons. Iran, and Brazil, and other nations, will soon get the capability. They know that's only way to deter the US.
OK. Maybe I'm a bit touchy about the difference out here on the coast.
We have not seen demonstration of adequate delivery, even were the missile defense system taking a holiday, which I suppose is not unlikely.
Seoul, Tokyo, US bases in South Korea and Okinawa - that's a different matter.
oh good...since starving people have nothing to lose.
delia, a convincing view. Unless we achieve universal nuclear disarmament proliferation will continue.
Gee our current president is actually starting to things right. Now if he would fire Gates and Slick Willy's wife that would be even better. Maybe if he really studied he could learn how to be a real Democrat and stand up for the people.
AD
But Obama will not fire anybody. He just doesn't have the balls for that.
Being a former senator Obama is a creature of the status quo.
He has no intentions of biting the hand that feeds him. 2012 is just around the corner
and this politician-cum President needs loads of cash to get re-elected in an elective process which demands ever greater sums of money to even have a chance at the coveted prize. Besides Gates has already signaled his intentions of stepping down soon so why make waves. As for Hillary, Obama much rather keep the Clinton political machinery content with a meaty bone rather than setting it loose where it might come back to haunt him.
Obama IS a real Democrat, who are you kidding? This is vintage Democratic behavior, evasive, triangulating and speaking from both sides of his mouth while accomplishing nothing. Beautiful-sounding rhetoric but at the end acting to the right of Richard Nixon.
At least Republicans don't hide from anyone that they're scum.
Well said.
But he really can't fire them in his first term... you know... if he wants to have a second.
Gates is pushing Obama around and it's just shocking that Obama doesn't tell him to shut up.
So, a military attack on Iran, or the possibility of a "new round of international sanctions?" War or diplomacy? The Defense Department plan, or the State Department plan?
This is like the Cuban missile crisis all over again.
It looks like diplomacy has won out, at least for now.
It also looks like the CD screeners have let some positive information about Hillary Clinton slip through their net. Shocking!
Thanks to IPS for this report.
Obama and his democrats have no diplomacy. The only similarity to foreign policy and Obamas actions are to emulate Chamberlin.
"Emulate Chamberlain?" So you link Obama is appeasing Iran by not taking out their nuclear power plant with a military attack? You favor war with Iran? You're a hawk?
Because, if you do not want a war with Iran, the only thing keeping Obama and Gates from starting one is the State Department's advice to engage Iran diplomatically—meaning continued U.N. inspections and the promise of renewed economic sanctions (or worse) if Iran moves towards building a nuclear weapon.
The Cuban missile crisis was much more dangerous. We didn't know that the Russians had nuclear tipped torpedos on some of their subs. When our destroyers was chasing one under water off the coast of Cuba, the Captain was ready to fire one at the destroyers. Luckily there was a Russian Admiral on board who countered his order or the atomic war would have started there. Ultimately the Russians removed their missiles from Cuba, but it would be years before the US public was told about the secret agreement that Nikita Khrushev got from Kennedy. We removed the nuclear missiles that we had in Turkey that were pointed at Russia. That Russian chess game was very dangerous.
The Political Science professor put it in perspective as he was finishing the class for us,"We may be at war with Russia by tomorrow and that means you might not be coming to class. Good luck to you all and listen to the radio for more information".
Right, I've seen the same documentaries you've seen. The similarity is that a military attack on Iran could trigger an escalating chain of events that would lead to a nuclear exchange and a tragic loss of life, including in the U.S., just as a military attack on Cuba in 1963 would have led to that same tragic chain of events.
All gamesmanship for the consumption of the American public. There is no stopping Iran. The US is not the big dog that it was. The US has squandered its moral imperative and treasury. We can't stop 100 Al-Qaeda at the cost of trillions and we can't use our nuclear weapons. The US is impotent. All we have left is our bad attitude. End result - beat the dog, wife and kids. That's where "We" come in.
Maybe it is just our karma to become victims of domestic violence. Payback for something "We" did in a previous life. In Orwell's 1984, Big Brother had only his own people to screw with in the final analysis.
Iran is a threat to the Plutocracy. Iran has resources and the west is not profiting from them. Threats are no longer working! Iran makes their own weapons and is not buying weapons from the west. What they do buy they purchase from our competitors. Iran is not borrowing money from the west either and that makes Iran really dangerous. What if Iran decided to stop accepting the US Dollar as payment for oil? What if they bartered oil for weapons or worse yet wheat? The west put the Shah of Iran in place the last time Iran tried to act independently. Now they are a free people and have no intention of coming under western control ever again.
Chavez is doing the same in Venezuela. Chavez nationalized his oil. Chavez has nationalized other industries. The income stream of the west has been stopped. Chavez opened the Bank of SA and cut out western financiers. Brazil paid off the IMF and said no need for you to come back around here.
The Plutocracy has robed the world of its wealth for centuries. What will the Plutocracy do with their ill-gotten gains if they can not loan them out at interest? What will become of their ill-gotten gains as more and more countries nationalize resources and default on obligations? As more countries walk away from the IMF by burning mortgages, nationalizing assets and defaulting on loans fear will set in. The days of sitting in Dubai counting rooms and having orgies will be over. Military options are not what they used to be.
The US will more likely confront Chavez through our surrogate Colombia than attack Iran. The world is a dangerous place. Less and less people are prepared to be robed by the west. We need to learn how to just all get along. Greed dies hard.
The nuclear bombs of USA and Israel are the biggest threats to world peace and the human race. Start disarming the American nuclear stockpile, and then disarm Israel. Haven't we created enough misery for the Iranians? At the behest of British Petroleum, the British government and the CIA overthrew the Iranian democracy in 1953 and installed the vile dictator Shah. Dictator Shah imprisoned, tortured and murdered thousands of his countryman. Added tidbit: our CIA trained the SAVAK, the Iranian secret police, how to torture. Heck of a job, imperial USA...
I believe these two look very much alike. I've never noticed it before.
Thank you for seeing it as well, katrine, although i honestly wouldn't have meant it as a knock. It just struck me when i saw the photo.
rita
If Goldberg is right in his article in the Atlantic, an Israeli attack is imminent. We will be seen as complicit, we will suffer consequences as surely as if we had done it ourselves. It comes from a very poor assessment of who really threatens our security. Israel-good, no matter what it does and is to be trusted with nuclear weapons, even as it lies about having them. Iran-bad, no matter that it abides by treaties on nuclear proliferation, does not have one and does not threaten anyone with it. Like everything else in our government this foreign policy position is bought by special interests, (AIPAC) and this time the price imposed on the rest of us is going to be really steep.
The Israelis have been going to attack Iran for several years, if you believe the latest propaganda put out by their writers in the US, Europe, and Israel. Probably their most recent serious attempt was in the summer of 2008 when Bush refused them and also told them they would get no assistance from the US. They have been on a full court press to con the US public into believing there is a need to attack Iran and the most recent surveys show they have done a great job. Over 80% of the public believes that Iran is working on a bomb and a large amount believe it would be OK to bomb them to prevent completion of that non-existant bomb. The Israelis rattle the saber on a regular basis, but I'm sure that behind the scenes the Russians and also the US has told them,"You can talk a lot,but don't even think about attacking Iran".
I would bet a majority of USAans think Iran has the capability of a missile attack on the USA when they can barely reach israel with extremely inacurrate missles.
And it would take a year minimum to create a Bomb from the time Iran decided to break out.
Apparently American politicians and lobbyists think that constantly talking about an unprovoked attack on Iran makes it less obviously insane. Not really. Murdering hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of innocents, and starting a no-win regional war in the Middle East, at least in part at the instigation of the Zionist lobby, remains an insane proposition.
Obama seems to realize this. If he has the courage to hold out against this coterie of warmongers he surrounded himself with, he may yet provide us with one good reason to have him in the White House instead of Insane McCain.
Unfortunately, the odds on sanity prevailing in the White House seem long, given that Obama chose Clinton and Gates in order to appease the most hawkish sectors of U.S. politics.
He made similar concessions to corporatist oligarchs with his domestic appointments as well, but at least they’re restricted to nuking our economy and social services.
Perhaps you missed one of the central points of this report: Clinton and Gates are on opposite sides of this issue, with Clinton favoring diplomacy and Gates favoring military action. For now, Clinton and the State Department's view is prevailing.
OK people. Obama's team says one thing for US consumption and another for foreign consumption. Obviously US elections are coming up and Americans don't want another dirty war. Obama put the nuclear strike option on the table and explicitly says he will not take it off the table as recently as July 9, 2010 in Israel:
No options against Iran off the table: Obama
Jul 09 2010
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/no-options-against-iran-off-the-table-obama/644281/0
After approving one of the toughest sanctions against Iran over its controversial nuclear programme, US President Barack Obama has warned the Islamic republic that he has not taken options off the table.
"I assure you that I have not taken options off the table," Obama said in an interview to Israeli television given on Wednesday.
"What I've said consistently is, is that it is unacceptable for Iran to possess a nuclear weapon, that we're going to do everything we can to prevent that from happening. What I've also tried to do is build an international consensus so that Iran can't somehow play a victim, can't suggest somehow that they're being singled out by the West," he said.
Iran is the only country that has not been able to convince the International Atomic Energy Agency that they are pursuing nuclear power for peaceful means.
"It's not hard to do, but they haven't been able to do it because all indicators are that they are in fact pursuing a nuclear weapon," he said.
"So we just pursued the toughest sanctions that have ever been applied against the Iranian government. We followed those up with US sanctions that are going to be tough. Allies and partners are following up with those sanctions. We want to continually ratchet up the costs of them pursuing this nuclear program," he said.
"Now, will that work? We don't know. And we are going to continue to keep the door open for a diplomatic resolution of this challenge. But I assure you that I have not taken options off the table," Obama said in response to a question.
Stating that his campaign had became a repository for a lot of hopes and a lot of dreams, Obama acknowledged that governance is different from campaigning.
"It's hard. It's complicated. It involves making choices, some of them not very attractive choices, and that at any given stage there are going to be some people who are disappointed," he said.
"But what keeps me hopeful is not any oversized view of my own capabilities; what keeps me hopeful is that the more I meet people here in this country, the more I meet people abroad, the more convinced I am that there's a common humanity, a common set of aspirations that people have for their children," he said.
"I think there's a core decency to people that sometimes history, institutions, lack of opportunity prevent from being realized, and that the general trajectory of history is in a positive direction," he said.
This sounds like the same stuff he's said in the U.S. He doesn't want Iran to have a nuclear weapon, says he won't allow it.
The news in the IPS article is that he now favors State's approach of continued diplomacy and allowing Iran's nuclear power plant to go on line, as opposed to Defense's plan to destroy the power plant with a military strike.
Pretty much the same as Bush quashing Cheney's plan to attack Iran a couple years ago. So, Obama is worse than Bush on Afghanistan and Pakistan, but not worse than Bush on Iran. Whew!
Naturally: “Perhaps you missed one of the central points of this report: Clinton and Gates are on opposite sides of this issue...”
That’s not one of the central points of this report, I didn’t miss it, and they are not on opposite sides of this issue (unless by "this issue" you mean attacking Iran now).
What I said was: “Obama chose Clinton and Gates in order to appease the most hawkish sectors of U.S. politics.” Are you arguing that Clinton isn’t a hawk on Middle East issues, i.e., Israel, right or wrong?
In 2008, Hillary threatened to “obliterate” Iran if it retaliated in the event of an Israeli attack. That would qualify as a war crime by any standard.
Just because she doesn't want to attack Iran now doesn't mean she's not a hawk, nor that she won't advocate bombing Iran the day after tomorrow, when "diplomacy" hasn't worked.
You did miss that point. According to the IPS article and others, State favors diplomacy and Defense favors a military assault.
I don't make any larger point about Middle East issues, I simply point out this central fact about who in the Obama administration advocates for war with Iran, and who advocates for diplomatic engagement—a fact that perhaps your prejudice blinded you to.
Please don't repeat that old lie about what Hillary said in 2008. That's been debunked countless times. Here, for your benefit, is what she actually said:
___________________________________________________________________________________________
ABC News: Hillary Clinton interview with Chris Cuomo, April 22, 2008
Cuomo: "Iran. Some language recently. You said 'if Iran were to strike Israel there would be massive retaliation.' Scarey words. Does massive retaliation mean you'd go into Iran, you would bomb Iran? Is that what that's supposed to suggest?"
Clinton: "Well, the question was 'if Iran were to launch a NUCLEAR attack on Israel, what would our response be?' And, I want the Iranians to know that if I'm the president, we will attack Iran. And, I want them to understand that, because it does mean that they have to look very carefully at their society, because whatever stage of development they might be in their nuclear weapons program in the next 10 years during which they might foolishly consider launching an attack on Israel, we would be able to totally obliterate them. That's a terrible thing to say but those people who run Iran need to understand that, because that perhaps will deter them from doing something that would be reckless, foolish and tragic."
Cuomo: "Is it difficult to reconcile the logic of a statement like that with the realities of what it would be like to make that decision?"
Clinton: "It is. It's very hard, and that's why you hope you can deter such behavior."
___________________________________________________________________________________________
This is simply a restatement of the long-standing U.S. policy of nuclear deterrence. Nuclear deterrence is, in fact, what has kept you and me and everyone we know from being killed in a nuclear exchange with the Soviet Union/Russia for the past sixty years—and such a response to a nuclear attack by Iran would most definitely NOT be a war crime.
What Hillary Clinton actually said isn't really any better, and for several reasons:
(1) Iran has no nukes, and is nowhere near getting them, so the question is inflammatory and absurd.
(2) Even if Iran nuked Israel, we have no defense treaty with Israel whatsoever (primarily because Israel has refused our treaty offers), and thus have no business entering the war on either side.
(3) So what if we were able to obliterate Iran? Is discussing another nation's obliteration at all responsible behavior?
That unspeakably disgusting comment of hers is one of the reasons I could never vote for her. And I lost most of my respect for Obama when he appointed her to a position for which she'd manifestly disqualified herself -- emotionally, morally, and politically -- by that very comment.
I should also add that anyone who suffers from the delusion she had to dodge bullet fire at the Sarajevo Airport, when in fact she was approached by flower-bearing children on a well-manicured state visit, needs psychiatric treatment That, or her nose needs to be trimmed down several feet.
You're against nuclear deterrence. Congratulations. You're an idiot.
And, the 1996 incident was in Tuzla, not Sarajevo, and she never said she "dodged bullet fire." She said she was moved into the cockpit of the military C-17 because it was armored, the other passengers were told to sit on their bulletproof vests, and the plane landed with a hair-raising, corkscrew maneuver in order to evade sniper fire—ALL of which was TRUE and CONFIRMED by the other passengers on the plane, including the CBS News producer and crew who accompanied CBS reporter Sharyl Atkisson, who later smeared Hillary when she falsely reported in 2008 that, "that's not what happened." Hillary's further recollection that the greeting ceremony on the tarmac was cut short and they "ran with heads down to the vehicles" was also truthful.
Here's the CBS News report filed in March 1996, documenting First Lady Clinton's visit to "one of the most dangerous places where U.S. forces are operating." It's oh, so different than the re-edited 2008 version, when Atkisson's corporate media bosses had decided Hillary was too much of a dangerous liberal to be President.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pef5AUt-tic
But, the truth doesn't matter to you, does it? Just like Obama's Senate voting record "didn't matter" in 2008. So, congratulations again. You're an idiot, a sexist and a liar.
You're not even a good liar: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-544633/Clinton-Video-contradicts-Hillarys-claim-ran-sniper-shots-Bosnia.html.
The (London) Daily Mail newspaper article you claim contradicts my post, in fact reinforces what I've said. It contains the same 1996 CBS News video I linked above, which says Tuzla was "one of the most dangerous places where U.S. forces are operating."
Nothing in the story contradicts the facts that I provided. There is no mention of the corkscrew landing to evade sniper fire, which we know happened because others on the plane have confirmed it. That is the truth behind Hillary's recollection of "landing under sniper fire."
The photo of Hillary meeting a young girl does not contradict her recollection (as I've said) that a formal greeting ceremony on the tarmac was cut short and they "ran with our heads down" to their vehicles.
The claim that "neither comic Sinbad nor the CBS News reporter covering the visit could recall any gunfire" is a classic partial-truth-that-is-totally-misleading—in other words, a lie. They may not have recalled "gunfire," but they certainly did recall being told to sit on (or wear) their bullet-proof vests, and the hair-raising corkscrew maneuver to evade sniper fire as the C17 landed. The CBS News reporter was Sharyl Attkisson, who in 2008 was smearing Hillary in an effort to damage her presidential campaign at the behest of her corporate media bosses. Sinbad liked Bill Clinton and the First Lady in 1996, but in 2008 he was supporting Obama.
Perhaps someone should ask Washington Post reporter, John Pomfret, why the C17 had to evade sniper fire and the passengers had to wear bullet-proof vests, if Tuzla airport was "one of the safest places in Bosnia." And why, again, the 1996 CBS story called Tuzla "one of the most dangerous places where U.S. forces are operating." Pomfret's newspaper was also endorsing Obama in 2008, when this article was published.
As to what "the Obama camp" had to say about it, of course the Obama camp was engaging in every kind of manipulation, lie and distortion at that time. They orchestrated probably the most unethical presidential campaign in modern history.
As the article notes, "the Clinton camp's focus on experience and readiness to take charge from day one" was helping her campaign in the polls. Given the fact that Obama had never once visited Europe in any capacity (even as a private citizen) and Hillary had visited 80 countries in her official capacity as First Lady, the Obama campaign and their corporate media allies decided to try to distract the public with this ridiculous smear.
As to the 2008 CBS story that claimed "[Hillary] described landing under sniper fire in Tuzla, Bosnia . . . something that didn't happen," CBS reporter Sharyl Attkisson later admitted on CBSNews.com:
"Due to the possibility of sniper fire, our pilots used what we were told are "assault take-offs and landings," and "it's exciting and frightening and, in the midst of it all, wearing our helmets and bulletproof vests..." and "there were serious risks in traveling to Bosnia, even for the President's wife under the vigilant protection of the U.S. military."
See: Sharyl Attkisson - March 24, 2008, 12:14 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/03/24/couricandco/entry3962828.shtml?source=search_story
Francois Bringer, the CBS News producer on the trip, recalled the C17 "proceeded to land 'military style,' banking nose down towards the Tuzla air strip while dropping decoys to deter heat seeking missiles. They sound like things hitting the hull, it is quite eerie."
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/03/28/couricandco/entry3977710.shtml
Given these undisputed FACTS, how would Sharyl Attkisson or ANYONE know if there was actual sniper fire as the plane landed or not? The evasive maneuvers taken may well have successfully evaded sniper fire. Attkisson doesn't know one way or the other, and her 2008 story that left out the most pertinent facts about the 1996 Tuzla landing is nothing but a smear.
So, once again, even as Obamabots and false-flag military PR ops continue trying to keep the smear alive in 2010, the truth wins out.
The central point of the article was contained in its title, “Obama resists pressure for red line on Iran’s nuclear capability.” The article wasn't about what Hillary favors or disfavors.
The point of my post, which you obviously missed, was that attacking Iran, whether before or after sanctions and so-called “diplomatic engagement,” would be insane, i.e., irrational, suicidal and criminal.
If you failed to pick up on that, sorry.
You said: “...a fact that perhaps your prejudice blinded you to.”
Are you playing the gender card on me? I thought that ended when Hillary lost the nomination.
According to Reuters, Hillary made her comments on April 22, 2010, a week after “a senior Iranian army commander said Iran would ‘eliminate’ Israel in response to any military attack from the Jewish state.”
Perhaps I was unfair to Hillary, if she didn’t make her remarks in the context of Iranian retaliation. Whatever. Let her publicly oppose a pre-emptive first strike against Iran even if diplomacy fails and I promise to stop calling her names like "hawk" and "insane."
From the Reuters article:
"'In the next 10 years, during which they might foolishly consider launching an attack on Israel, we would be able to totally obliterate them,' she said."
"'That's a terrible thing to say but those people who run Iran need to understand that because that perhaps will deter them from doing something that would be reckless, foolish and tragic,' Clinton said."
"Her comments appeared harder than a week ago, when during a presidential debate she promised 'massive retaliation' against any Iranian attack on Israel."
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2224332720080422
Well, those are bits and pieces of the entire quote which I already gave you. Why try to parse the bits when you have the entire quote? The key, often omitted, is that her response was to a question about a NUCLEAR attack by Iran.
Hillary does oppose a pre-emptive first strike, and if you were paying attention you would know that. That is precisely the point contained in this IPS article. I don't think the Secretary of State has to engage in a public brawl with the Defense Secretary and the President to be considered "sane" or accorded common decency. Such a public disagreement, while it may satisfy you, would also be considered a failure by hard-line right-wingers in this country, who would claim (with some merit) it weakened the U.S. negotiating position with Iran.
You said: “...a fact that perhaps your prejudice blinded you to.”
I asked you about that nasty little remark above and you didn’t respond. We saw the Clinton campaign raise this smear frequently during the 2008 campaign, and it’s one of the reasons I’m glad she lost.
You said: “Hillary does oppose a pre-emptive first strike, and if you were paying attention you would know that. That is precisely the point contained in this IPS article.”
On what do you base your snarky and sweeping assertion? If you had been paying attention you would know the only comments by Hillary referenced in this article were as follows:
“Gregory asked Clinton, ‘Is a nuclear-capable Iran as dangerous as a nuclear state of Iran?’ to which Clinton answered, ‘Well, clearly weapons are more dangerous than potential.’”
That's the basis for your assertion that Hillary opposes a pre-emptive first strike? Get real!
I said: “Let her [Clinton] publicly oppose a pre-emptive first strike against Iran even if diplomacy fails and I promise to stop calling her names like ‘hawk’ and ‘insane.’”
Your reply: “I don't think the Secretary of State has to engage in a public brawl with the Defense Secretary and the President to be considered ‘sane’ or accorded common decency.”
To re-reiterate: it’s possible Hillbillary opposes a pre-emptive first strike on Iran as a matter of principle, but there’s no evidence of it in this article. If she has taken such a position I’ll cheerfully give her credit for it. She wouldn’t have to engage in a “public brawl,” as you call it, to reject the brinkmanship currently directed against Iran.
It’s not a question of according her "common decency" (your phrase). No “decent” politician would even contemplate a first strike against Iran. Whether the attack is before or after “diplomatic engagement” (your euphemism), is irrelevant. That was the point of my original post, which you continue to ignore or missed completely.
You said (to corvo): “You’re against nuclear deterrence. Congratulations. You’re an idiot.”
Corvo’s points were valid, and you’re an idiot for twisting his comments like that. Some nuclear deterrence. Where’s the nuclear deterrence against Israel, which possesses a huge nuclear arsenal and is constantly threatening Iran as well as engaging in war crimes against its neighbors? All we’re seeing is nuclear deterrence against Iran, which has threatened no one and has no nuclear weapons.
Your so-called “nuclear deterrence” against Iran, under these circumstances, is insane, because Israel, not Iran, is the real threat to peace.
Prejudice: an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason. (I didn't accuse you of gender bias.)
You said Obama is a "courageous" man who [only] makes "concessions" to "insane" "warmongers," and Hillary Clinton represents the "most hawkish" in the U.S.
Here are some inconvenient FACTS, debunking that prejudiced opinion:
2006: Senator Clinton took the high-profile lead in demanding that President Bush fire Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld over the Iraq debacle. She successfully took out highest ranking official who did not require impeachment. Senator Obama was silent on the issue.
2006: Senator Clinton publicly backed antiwar candidate Ned Lamont in his Democratic primary battle with neoconservative warmonger Joe Lieberman in Connecticut. By contrast, Senator Obama traveled to Connecticut to speak in support of Lieberman, and used his considerable political and financial resources to back centrist, pro-war Democrats against anti-war progressives in numerous Congressional primaries.
2006: At the Democratic primary debate at Dartmouth College, Senator Clinton was asked about torture: if Al Qaida had planted a bomb that is about to go off, and a prisoner knows where it is, "should there be a presidential exception to allow torture in that kind of situation?" She answered: "As a matter of policy it cannot be American policy, period. There is very little evidence that it works. Now, there are a lot of other things that we need to be doing that I wish we were: better intelligence; working to have more allies. But these hypotheticals are very dangerous because they open a great big hole in what should be an attitude that our country and our president takes toward the appropriate treatment of everyone. And I think it's dangerous to go down this path." President Obama continues the Bush/Cheney policy of political torture.
2007: Senator Clinton voted for the Feingold-Reid Amendment (S.Amdt. 3164) to the 2008 Department of Defense Appropriations Act, which would require the President to safely redeploy all U.S. combat troops from Iraq by June 30, 2008. Senator Obama did not vote for that amendment, and good arguments are made that his non-support—for cynical political reasons—caused the bill's failure.
2007: Senator Clinton co-sponsored Sen. Bernie Sanders's bill (S.2398—Stop Outsourcing Security Act) to prohibit the use of Blackwater, DynCorp, Triple Canopy and other mercenaries in Iraq and Afghanistan, following numerous revelations of murders, torture and rapes they had committed which were going unprosecuted. Senator Obama publicly opposed that bill, and in fact introduced his own measure which would have swept the issue under the rug by giving the Pentagon the responsibility to investigate such matters (pretty much the same policy he has pursued as President).
2008: Senator Clinton voted against the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) amendment (H.R. 6304) which legalized warrantless wiretapping of Americans in violation of the Fourth Amendment, covered up and excused more than 30 felony crimes committed by President Bush when he authorized the illegal wiretaps, and provided retroactive immunity to lawbreaking telecom companies and terminated all pending lawsuits against them. Senator Obama voted for the bill.
The list goes on, but these are some of the highlights. Given these most fundamental facts, the opinions you expressed are indeed prejudiced. It's therefor not surprising that your understanding of U.S. relations with Iran is so flawed. Ditto for nuclear deterrence.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0210/33012.html
Naturally: “You said Obama is a ‘courageous’ man who [only] makes ‘concessions’ to ‘insane’ ‘warmongers,’ and Hillary Clinton represents the ‘most hawkish’ in the U.S.”
Maybe you don’t read so good. I never wrote that about Obama. You still don’t understand my original post.
Please, in the future:
1. Visit your optician for a check-up.
2. Take a course on reading comprehension.
3. Reread my original post.
4. Don’t put quotation marks around something I never wrote and attribute it to me.
5. Enjoy your crow meat.
Posted by: Ostrogoth August 27th, 2010 2:10 pm
Apparently American politicians and lobbyists think that constantly talking about an unprovoked attack on Iran makes it less obviously INSANE. Not really. Murdering hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of innocents, and starting a no-win regional war in the Middle East, at least in part at the instigation of the Zionist lobby, remains an insane proposition.
Obama seems to realize this. If he has the COURAGE to hold out against this coterie of WARMONGERS he surrounded himself with, he may yet provide us with one good reason to have him in the White House instead of Insane McCain.
Unfortunately, the odds on sanity prevailing in the White House seem long, given that Obama chose CLINTON and Gates in order to appease the MOST HAWKISH sectors of U.S. politics.
He made similar CONCESSIONS to corporatist oligarchs with his domestic appointments as well, but at least they’re restricted to nuking our economy and social services.
____________________
You lose, liar.
I asked you to reread my original comment, not repost it, you little nitwit.
Maybe you need a shrink instead of an optician or a reading comprehension course.
Your prejudice may not allow you to understand this conversation, but here it is:
http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=7775502
Transcript: Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on ABC New's 'This Week' — June 7, 2009
STEPHANOPOULOS: How about Iran? You were quoted in the papers back in March when you met with the foreign minister of the UAE that you were skeptical of the possibility that diplomacy would work to stall or stop Iran's nuclear ambitions. Are you still that doubtful?
CLINTON: Well, I am someone who's going to wait and see. I mean, I -- I want to see what the president's engagement will bring. We have a team of people who we have tasked to work on this. I think there's an enormous amount of potential for change, if the Iranians are willing to pursue that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, what do you think they want, deep down? You know, you read some of the public declarations by their supreme leader and others saying that they consider nuclear weapons un-Islamic, and yet they continue to pursue the nuclear program.
CLINTON: But, George, one of the values of -- of engagement is, we need to have better information, and maybe about each other, not just about a one-way street of information.
The idea that we could have a diplomatic process with Iran means that, for the first time, we would actually be sitting at a table across from Iranians authorized by the supreme leader to talk with us about a whole range of issues. That gives us information and insight that we don't have.
Of course there's contradiction, because we don't have any really clear sense as to what it is they are seeking. Now, one of the things that you heard the president say is, we understand the legitimate right of nations...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: ... any nation, including Iran...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: ... to have access to peaceful nuclear energy. If that is at the core of what they want, there are ways of accommodating that that do not lead to a nuclear weapon.
But we have to -- have to test that, and we have to be willing to sit and listen and evaluate without giving up what we view as a primary objective of the engagement, which is to do everything we can to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear weapons state.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Your own envoy, Dennis Ross, has said one way to strengthen the position of the United States going into these negotiations is to make it very clear that, if Iran used nuclear weapons against Israel or any U.S. ally, that would be met as an attack on the United States, full response. Now, that was your position during the campaign, as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I would make it clear to the Iranians that an attack on Israel would incur massive retaliation from the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Is it U.S. policy now?
CLINTON: I think it is U.S. policy to the extent that we have alliances and understandings with a number of nations. They may not be formal, as it is with NATO, but I don't think there is any doubt in anyone's mind that, were Israel to suffer a nuclear attack by Iran, there would be retaliation.
STEPHANOPOULOS: By the United States?
CLINTON: Well, I think there would be retaliation. And I think part of what is clear is, we want to avoid a -- a Middle East arms race which leads to nuclear weapons being in the possession of other countries in the Middle East, and we want to make clear that there are consequences and costs.
Now, let me just put it this way: If Iran is seeking security, if they believe -- and, you know, you have to put yourself into the shoes of the other party when you negotiate -- if they believe that the United States might attack them the way that we did attack Iraq, for example...
STEPHANOPOULOS: Before they attack, as a first strike?
CLINTON: That's right, as a first strike, or they might have some other enemy that would do that to them, part of what we have to make clear to the Iranians is that their pursuit of nuclear weapons will actually trigger greater insecurity, because, right now, many of the nations in the neighborhood, as you know very well...
STEPHANOPOULOS: Because Israel will strike before they can finish?
CLINTON: Well, but not only that. I mean, other countries, other Arab countries are deeply concerned about Iran having nuclear weapons. So does Iran want to face a battery of nuclear weapons countries...
(CROSSTALK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Can you get those other Arab nations to say that publicly? That was part of the president's theme today.
CLINTON: Well, you know, we've been there a little over four months. And clearly a lot of what we are doing is teeing up our framework for decision-making.
We are aggressively pursuing diplomacy, not as an end in itself, but as a means to try to resolve some of these outstanding and very difficult problems. We are trying to make clear that the United States is of course going to pursue our interests in values, but, frankly, we believe there are ways that we can make them consonant with the issues and values that are important to others, as well.
It's pretty clear that HRC supports an Israeli first strike against Iran. She says Iran may fear a US attack like the one against Iraq. Obama's administration has attacked Pakistan and escalated attacks against Afghanistan so clearly a first strike is within the realm of possibility against Iran. By mentioning the possibility of a first strike without standing against it HRC is actually stoking the flame.
HRC goes on to say "some other enemy that would do that to them" and "does Iran want to face a battery of nuclear weapons countries...", "do everything we can to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear weapons state".
BTW, the US has never formally admitted that Israel is a nuclear weapons country but it is the only one in the middle east and no other middle east country is even close to getting one.
These statements in totality are veiled threats by HRC for a US/NATO or Israeli first strike against Iran before it obtains a nuclear weapon.
It includes a threat of a nuclear first strike by the US/NATO or Israel.
Based on this analysis and my previous posting, Obama and HRC are both on the same page with regard to a US supported first strike against Iran if diplomacy fails and Iran is close to obtaining a nuclear weapon.
Gates and HRC disagree on whether diplomacy has failed and how sure they are that Iran is getting close to a nuclear weapon.
Obama and HRC say wait. Iran has the "the potential but not the bomb" has not yet obtained "breakout capability" or "to develop the capacity to develop nukes" etc.
Gates says "Red line those bastards NOW!! What are you waiting for?".
I don't see any difference between Obama and HRC on Iran.
In spite of her momentary fight for a withdrawal timetable in 2007, HRC and Obama both voted for war funding. In her presidential campaign HRC did not offer a fixed timetable for withdrawal of combat troops from Iraq. Obama did and won the primary over HRC for that reason.
The woman run Code Pink ran a concerted effort to change HRC's mind regarding the wars. Check out: http://listenhillary.org/article.php?id=762
"It's pretty clear that HRC supports an Israeli first strike against Iran."
To the contrary, it's quite clear that she does not support a first-strike against Iran. I posted the entire interview so those who might maliciously misinterpret her remarks can have their misinterpretations checked against the entire context of what she actually said.
"I don't see any difference between Obama and HRC on Iran." There isn't any. As I've said repeatedly, the difference is between Hillary and Gates, and for now Obama is accepting Hillary's (State's) plan and rejecting Gates' (DOD's) plan.
"HRC did not offer a fixed timetable for withdrawal of combat troops from Iraq."
She VOTED FOR a bill sponsored by the most liberal Senator (Feingold) and the Senate Majority Leader (Reid) to REQUIRE the President to withdraw all combat troops from Iraq by June 30, 2008!!! What could be more of a "fixed timetable for withdrawal of combat troops from Iraq" than that?
Contrast Obama, who did not vote for Feingold-Reid, and who said during his campaign he hoped to complete the withdrawal by April 2010—TWO YEARS AFTER the withdrawal date specified in Feingold-Reid. (Now we know the real date was August 31, 2010.) Your recollection of this issue is incorrect.
What is true is that Obama lied during his campaign about being "anti-war," and rode the huge anti-war sentiment among Democrats to the Democratic nomination. As President he has increased military spending above what Bush spent, increased military size, increased predator drone attacks (which kill inordinate numbers of civilians), and unilaterally (illegally) attacked Pakistan (which even Bush stopped short of doing.) The list goes on and on, but we all know it by now, don't we?
Furthermore, voting for Feingold-Reid is just one of six very significant actions I listed that Hillary took (before joining Obama's administration, of course) which differentiate her from Obama and other hawks.
"HRC and Obama both voted for war funding?" All the presidential candidates (except Kucinich) voted for that funding ("to support our troops"), and voting to "not" support the troops would mean never becoming President. (I personally supported Kucinich for his stand on war funding, but he never made it out of Iowa.)
The Code Pink timeline/summary you linked is really distorted at every turn. For example, Hillary's vote for Feingold-Reid is not even mentioned!? And, in another example, look at the third item from the top on their list. In May 2007 Hillary voted for Cloture on an earlier version of Feingold's amendment. Code Pink twists that into something suspicious. But, look at the actual record (linked below): Feingold himself voted for Cloture, as did most other Democrats. Code Pink's spin is dishonest.
May 16, 2007 Cloture vote on Feingold Amendment #1098: http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00167
October 3, 2007 vote on Feingold-Reid Amendment #3164: http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00362
Other items on their list are also twisted and misleading, and still other items go unmentioned. You have to wonder what Code Pink's true agenda really is.
btw, Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of State.