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Jimmy Carter Charges Obama 'Doesn't Want to Punish Those Who are Guilty' of Crimes
The Democratic Party power structure's least favorite ex-President is speaking out of school again. Jimmy Carter has some strong words about President Obama's decision to fight the release of thousands of photos that reportedly show further US abuse and torture of prisoners and has weighed in on the debate over prosecuting former Bush administration officials for torture. In an interview to be broadcast tonight on CNN, Carter says this about Obama's position on the release of new torture photos:
In strikingly strong language, Carter blasts Obama’s position blocking the release of torture photos and on holding Bush-era officials accountable for their “crimes.” [M]ost of [Obama's] supporters were hoping that he would be much
more open in the revelation of what we've done in the past. But he's
made a decision with which I really can't contend that he doesn't want
to resurrect the past, he doesn't want to punish those who are guilty
of perpetrating of what I consider crimes against our own laws and
against our own constitution. And the revelation of those pictures
might very well inflame further animosity against our country causing
some harm to our soldiers, so I don't agree with him, but I certainly
don't criticize him for making that decision.
Regarding calls for prosecution of former Bush administration officials, Carter says:
I think prosecuting is too strong a word, what I would like to see is a complete examination of what did happen, the identification of any perpetrators of crimes against our own laws or against international law and then after all that's done, decide whether or not there should be any prosecutions. But the revelation of what did happen is what I think I would support.
At the Democratic National Convention in Denver last year, Carter was removed from a speaking position at the last minute in a move some considered to be a political snub.
96 Comments so far
Show AllLet us not forgot as we congratulate Carter for his good words that his words as pres called the oil in the middle east ours with his policy of the middle east as an area of OUR NATIONAL SECURITY.Setting in motion wholesale attacks of multiple countries multiple times.
Just another strong male democrat with peanuts on his breath.I am glad that when a nail sticks up Jimmy is there to pound it down.
Abe Winken June 1st, 2009 5:02 pm....No doubt, Carter is just another politician doing covert Mea Culpas, but I'll take anyone who will stand up to the new WH Gestapo.
Anyone but Jimmy Carter, of course.
Yeah, let's not listen to a man who has done more out of office than many have done in office. Let's not listen to a witness for peace, since at one time he was an imperfect vessel. Let's instead, move forward and not look into what this man is saying.
Better?
Ted,
I agree. President Carter as a sitting president was one thing. (Some loved him others did not) But...surely we can all agree that the post presidential, President Carter,is a man we can all admire and respect.
Ted, yes.
I believe, as you imply of Obama's preference, that Goring and Hess also believed it would be preferable to "move forward and not look backward".
Alan MacDonald
Sanford, Maine
Well said. Whenever anyone does something good, there are always people in these forums who undercut and distract with not-good-enough or they're-all-the-same type comments. It almost seems orchestrated.
Unfortunately Carter is still triangulating. We on the far left have identified triangulation as a serious dysfunction. When is everyone going to do the same?
I guess I'm not as far left as you. Not that it means a damn thing.
Triangulation may be a dysfunction, but we do our best in a dysfunctional world where we are all dysfunctional. Those who claim not to be, I run from...fast!
Demonstrating my point.
Ok, maybe something not so old...
__Right now, Jimmy Carter is one of the few with any on-stage volume that is calling for what's right.
__Whatever his past (oh yeah, 40 years ago?), he's been dedicated to helping many of those who need it most just to get through the day.
__And I believe we need to send the message that we will not tolerate war crimes by our own "leaders." And send that both to our youth for the sake of their learning values, and to the world - especially to the Middle-East.
__Forgiveness need not rule out accountability, IMO - both necessarily have their place in all things. But we cannot tell our kids one thing, and then do another very long without consequences - any longer than we can do that with our world neighbors.
_*_IMO the Iraqi's will respect us for exposing what the *last* administration did, AND especially for resolving (with teeth enforced laws) what we will never do again. It will break some hearts and inflame some for a while, but the Iraqi's and other Arab peoples have already got a really good idea of what went on. The extremists may try to get some footage with it, but they depend on the other peoples for their funding and other support -- which (If I'm correct above) may not increase that much over any appreciable period of time due to our going clean. I think this opinion, if expressed well by someone with more clout than I, could lead to more groundswell and letters to the prez...
__And Mr. Obama is not "BushIII" - he's the type that will take forever unless he gets a lot of citizen support (or push) - that's what got him in office, so maybe he expects something close to a mandate to get him to swim upstream in that trough with/against the best elected officials money will pay for. But we just consign him to the mud at the bottom of it before he's found where better currents are, well, then we'll probably get what we call for.
__Thanks for the listen
Some people (granted, not many), even some ex-presidents, do change their views and are entitled to do so, aren't they?
As for me, I commend and admire Carter, and am grateful for he has been doing and saying, since he left the presidency.
It's amazing how much pussy footing occurs when state sponsored crime is involved. Compare this to rape, bank robbery, manslaughter (accidentally running over someone with your car when you are drunk). The legal system is a hodge podge of cherry picking selective laws followed by outrageous selective enforcement. Check your conscience and morals at the door if you want to be a "successful" cop, lawyer or judge in this country.
AGG June 1st, 2009 5:08 pm..They exist under different laws than We the People...
usavsus.info.
The cherry picking is determined by two things - race and class. If you have money and are white, you can get away with just about anything.
tanguero, class more than race.
And when it comes to the big crimes, like the ultimate war crime of launching a preemptive aggressive war, the ruling-class, of this 'corporate financial Empire' hiding behind the facade of its two-party 'Vichy' sham of democracy, is in a class by itself in terms of slipping the hangman's all-too-justifiable noose.
The upper class may be able to get away with murder, but only the ruling-class can get away with war crimes and mega-murder.
Alan MacDonald
Sanford, Maine
To AGG June 1st, 2009 5:08 pm:
I am afraid that your remarks are so true.
Basically, we have double standards, if not triple or quadruple standards.
So, just say NO! next time you are called to do jury service.
1. Tell the judge you are looking forward, no one is guilty
2. I wll serve when America becomes a nation of laws ...again.
3.When you put the little deserter and his crew on trial for war crimes, then I'll serve.
4. When you put the people who tortured in my name on trial, then I'll serve.
5. When the judge tell you it's your duty to serve, ask him what is the duty of the Justice dept.
No justice for the pig's? Then we shut down the justice system.
Brilliant
If we are silent, even stones cry out.
spinwing
Oregoncharles
Then they'll get someone else who will serve.
This isn't about justice -- nobody is going to jail over this except innocent sheppards or a bunch of freedom fighters. This is about inciting as much as possible effect to keep this war going. Since it takes an enemy to keep a war going and this is the best way to do it.
It isn't popular to say, but in my view Jimmy Carter was one the US's finest presidents, even if like a majority of US presidents he couldn't pronounce the word nuclear. He said nuculear.
I agree Grumbler, compared to all of the post John Kennedy presidents, Carter stands out as the only one willing to throw a few crumbs to the working class.
Among Democrats, Johnson, Clinton and Obama were constantly trying to prove that they are just as fascist as real Republicans.
Every time some neocon calls Obama a socialist, Obama promotes additional fascist legislation to show them just how fascist he can be. The neocons are playing Obama like a fiddle.
"Among Democrats, Johnson, Clinton and Obama were constantly trying to prove that they are just as fascist as real Republicans."
This is what comes of saying whatever comes into your head.
I totally agree. Jimmy Carter was a decent man who had to do despicable things to appease those that brung him to the dance. The fact that he is so out-spoken in his retirement is commendable.
President Carter said this illegal war would be a disaster. I had high hopes for Obama but as soon as he started picking his Zionist cabinet I knew nothing had changed. America is doomed.
Do you see the pattern? Every election season when elites are elected, hopes raised high, then dashed?
Sorry to say that Obama is proving to be more and more in the pockets of the corporations than I previously believed. I knew he leaned that way, but now it's pretty obvious that he's more than ready to fall in lock-step with the will of those who live by the lie that a corporation is a "person."
No investigations or prosecutions? Exactly the way the $ bosses want it. Carter was really no different with this. He, like just about every (if not every) politician had his wind-up key surgically attached when he was president (and governor before that).
We need another Teddy or Franklin in the oval office so badly; someone who will investigate and prosecute, someone who will demand a move NOW to a green economy (not just the token gestures by Obama), someone who will demand that money be taken out of elections - move to publicly-financed elections, someone who will put the pressure on the 4th estate (media) to report news as a public service - something that will be much easier to do with money taken away from elections - and someone who will line up his/her ACTIONS with their words.
Probably a pretty unrealistic dream.
Obama is wimping out.
Maybe an effective 3rd party effort? Seems distant as well, doesn't it.
Please talk me out of my despair.
donilo
Okay, so we can all agree Jimmy's a charming guy (a characteristic that explains a lot about why he and most Democratic presidential candidates get elected in the first place) who has done some decent stuff since he got out of office. He was still a ruling class vetted imperialist who ran the U.S. in a period where it engaged in the same sorts of economic, military, and covert actions that U.S. presidents have always overseen on behalf of powerful interests and against the interests of the majority of people on the planet.
Donilo, I don't know where you get the notion that a "Teddy or Franklin in the oval office" is what we need but I might suggest you read more widely about what both stood for and did.
In the meantime, here is a suggestion in regards to your lament that "Obama is wimping out. Maybe an effective 3rd party effort? Seems distant as well, doesn't it. Please talk me out of my despair."
How about instead trying to talk you into getting involved in a 3rd party effort. And instead of making it distant, start now. Take your pick among those candidates who spoke crystal clear against the imperialist wars of the U.S. during the 2008 presidential election such as Nader, Kucinich, or McKinney. Or Gloria La Riva or Brian Moore. It would be a great learning experience for you and action might cure your unrealistic dreaming and help as well with your despair.
It is either that or face an endless succession of candidates thrown up by the two party ruling class consensus and managed in the 18 month long process known as the U.S. presidential elections to assure that no one who in the least constitutes a threat to the ruling class capitalist/imperialist system ever comes close to the levers of power in the U.S.
In the end, I have always believed that the U.S. populace is too confused, too materially comfortable (even in the midst of this crisis), too numbed by propaganda from the media and the government, and too cowardly to do anything which will change the two party game of musical chairs. It will be the persecuted, bombed, tortured, exploited, and slandered peoples of the world who will in the end stand up to the US government (and its people in the form of the troops sent to brutalize, murder, rape/sodomize, and torture them) and free themselves. The solution to the problem is the end of the U.S. empire and in that game the U.S. citizenry is in its great majority a non-player. Sad but true.
David Brookbank -- "Hasta donde debemos practicar las verdades".
David, I agree with your solution, but let me add this as well. VOLUNTEER for these candidates whenever you can. Money is a huge problem for any third party candidate. Also support Instant Runoff Voting(this election method allows your vote to transfer to another candidate if your fist choice does not get sufficient first place votes, this will remove the excuse "if I vote for Nader then the Repug wins".)
PS I saw Brian Moore at Nova University when he was running vs Nelson in Florida, what a speech!
donilo, "Sorry to say that Obama is proving to be more and more in the pockets of the corporations"
Who woulda thunk, eh?
Don't feel bad, donilo, slightly over half the Americans actually were conned into thinking (by Democratic Party PR, propaganda, and overt lies) that Obama was going to be 'for them' and 'against' the corporatist Empire --- while slightly less than half the American proles were duped by the very same "corporatist Empire's" right-wing-nut media, that the Democrats were actually going to tax away their non-existing estate wealth, take away their guns, and attack their non-existing freedom --- and they voted in fear for Republicans.
Unfortunately, very few Americans understand that the phony charade of what passes for an election under in this 'Vichy' democratic Republic (which they still believe is 'their country') is totally controlled by the ruling-elite 'corporate financial Empire' --- nor do they understand that this 'show' called democracy, and totally scripted and rehearsed by the Empire is three orders of magnitude more professionally managed and controlled by the Empire than is a typical WWF grudge match 'show'.
Yes, folks, it is the ruling-elite 'corporate financial Empire' that totally creates, scripts, and produces the 'show' called elections, and has their paid 'actors' called Democrat and Republican parties (and individual politician whores) step into that 'exciting ring' called the political grudge match every four years precisely to ----- fool the shit out of you peons, serfs, and proles. And you buy, lap-it-up, whoop, yell, and cheer for your phony heroes just as loud, and even louder, than at a WWF or NASCAR staged 'show' --- except that serious and gravitas looking shills like Brian Williams, Timmy Russett (god rest his lies), Tom 'flathead' Friedman, George Steponhisdick, and thousands of others in on the 'con-game' and paid by the Empire to make it 'ever-so-exciting' get you all to vote for either of the Empire controlled parties, neither of which wil do anything different and are totally pre-approved (ney, pre-selected and given their 'script lines') by the rulingelite' corporate financial Empire' that hides behind the curtain and runs this whole friggin scam with the facade of a two-party 'Vichy' charade that would make Goebbels cry with admiration and apologize to his boss that, "Mein Fuhrer. You would still be in power if I had only had the brilliance to build our crude, single-party, 'Vichy' charade in the 'homeland' instead of France --- and if I had seen the tremendous value in making it a better disguised TWO-PARTY 'Vichy' scam"!
So, donilo, the 'lesson learned' (or rather, the lesson we should have learned) after this many seasons of believing Lucy about her promises to hold the 'football' and falling on our arses, as she pulled it away year after year after year (and election after election after election) is that there is a profound and unchanging 'Three Card Monte' con going on 'right here in River City' and it starts with 'c' and that rhymes with 'E' and that stands for EMPIRE.
However, as John Beluchi used to continually say on the old funny (seriously insightful) SNL, "But, NOOOOOOO" we just keep buying the same dog-food, and so the Empire just keeps filling our dish evey four years --- nad then we are surprised as hell that the stinking shit tastes the same no matter which bowl (labeled 'R' or 'D') that we eat it out of!!!
Well, donilo, maybe, just maybe, the dog food and it's manufacturer (the hidden Empire behind the TV screen) is about to hit the fan. At which time the Empire may shout, as past Empires in Rome, Britain, France, Germany, and the Soviet Empire shouted, "Who let the dogs out?"
Hey donilo, "Let's go dog"
Hi amacd,
Thanks for your message. I particularly like any reference to the Vichy government, reminding me of the wonderful scenes in Casablanca, highlighted by Claude Raines saying, "The heart is my least vulnerable organ." And of course few could match John Belushi on the old SNL.
Thanks for reminding me that humor is so vital for us - especially in these times of 1984 scenarios becoming reality.
BTW, take notice of the work going on at ae911truth.org. They finally seem to be making some cracks in the wall that's been put around those of us who call for a reinvestigation of 9/11 (the label of "truthies").
Woof!
donilo
>>>amacd wrote:... while slightly less than half the American proles were duped by the very same "corporatist Empire's" right-wing-nut media, that the Democrats were actually going to tax away their non-existing estate wealth, take away their guns, and attack their non-existing freedom --- and they voted in fear for Republicans.
Well said. I am amused by this every time I hear right-wingers talk about tax. When Warren Buffett is for estate tax (as is Bill Gates Sr.), these wannabes oppose it calling it "death tax". Comic! Your entire post is a classic insult - but amazingly, no one is going to protest :)
Corporate "personhood" is one of the lies that Congress needs to address, but since most of them are in the pockets of the corporations, it's probably never going to happen.
Most things that people feel are "never going to happen" just take more than one step. Something has to happen before the initial goal can happen. In this case, strangely, we need to liberate our representatives from corporate influence.
I don't mean to suggest that many of them wish to be liberated much of the time. But they don't serve the corporations out of love; they serve them out of greed and lust for power.
If the crimes of the Bush administration are not exposed and punished, the next group waiting in the wings will be much worse.
You can already see them gathering their corporate sponsored hatred and lies under "distinguished" leaders like Rush Limbaugh, a combination of Adolf Hitler and Hermann Goering and the Republican equivalent of Joseph Goebbels, Karl Rove.
i'd like to see carter and brzinsky tried for the huge war crime of destabilizing afghanistan to draw in the russians, and for starting to create the mujahadeem together with the pakistani security service. those wages of sanctimonious jimmy are still with us, and will be till kingdom come.
Yep, that cold war mentality...USSR the evil empire..etc.etc. But tried for "war crimes?" I afraid that if we were to apply the standard you are suggesting here it would be a crowded docket indeed....But I do get your point....
Why doesn't O'Bama just forward all the BushCo incriminating evidence to The Hague, and be done with it, once and for all?
Obamba only needs to join the rest of the world in the International Criminal Court and everything would proceed post haste. The Hague (or World Court) is older an more incumbered by the UN security council veto.
So one most only join the ICC.
Remember Bush's reason for not joining the ICC was so he would not be liable for knowingly committing War Crimes.
Give me a reason why any American capable of planning and getting away with a crime should not do so. We're obviously not a nation of laws.
Because, NRA notwithstanding, they have bigger guns than we do.
First of all, I seriously doubt that the real war criminals are in any of the pictures. They aren't the type to dirty their hands. The only people in the pictures, I'll bet a dollar, are the people he's already said he wan't going to prosecute -- the poor dumb German soldiers just carrying out orders. You think Cheney was out there exercising command and control? Not on camera he wasn't (same dollar).
Secondly there's an established rule of law which prevents evidence which, on balance, is more unfairly prejudicial or inflammatory than it's worth as proof of something. We know what happened and we aren't going to prosecute those who obeyed orders. That's what Republicans do. They bounce some lower ranking fall guy around and have a state funeral 10 years later for the guys who were in command and control -- those who's idea it was, the planners, etc. Obama has never said those guys aren't going to be prosecuted or investigated or whatever. With that same dollar, I'm betting President Carter is just testing the water, because it's really up to us to put the pressure on. What Obama has said is that justice will run it's course. That is to say it's up to the Attorney General and Congress to do their jobs. We have to put the squeeze on them, not him.
Ultimately, I just don't want to look at pictures of the atrocities done in my name. It would inflame hell out of me. Nor do I want them used as propaganda as illustrative of what was done and why it's OK to repay in kind. We've made a great deal of 'of by and for', and in that sense we are not innocent civilians.
I druther strip the SOB's in charge of everything they touched, and move them into the lower 9th ward with FEMA in charge of their care, food, housing, etc., for the rest of their unnatural lives.
And finally, I don't know what any of this has to do with 'corporations' as such, and it purely amazes me that strict constructionists (and everyone else) has made up a 'fiction' (a damnable lie in legalese) giving them civil rights. They should be treated as pirates when they don't strictly serve the public good, a key promise each corporation makes at the time it is created. When they break the law or act other than in the public interest, they should have no civil rights and should be summarily destroyed with their assets forfeit. Officers and employees who abuse corporate status by acting in other than the public interest, should be criminally prosecuted. But we do nothing of the sort.
The only reservation I have is to Blackwater. They ain't GI's. If they are in the pictures, there should be hell to pay. I don't need to see them. The judge can do it so I don't have to foul my head, heart, hands and health. It's one of the reasons we have judges instead of robots
Amen
I especially liked your last 2 sentences!!
Also, let's not add to the humiliation that the torture victims have already experienced by showing their pictures around the world on the Internet.
Let us not participate as voyeurs to this violence, either.
I reject the notion that we ALL must see these photographs.
Unlike Jimmy, I believe we already know enough to prosecute the guilty ones.
But if it takes a "Truth Commission" for that to happen- let's get on with it!!
Crimes were committed- there HAS to be some accountability.
"I think prosecuting is too strong a word"
Oh my, my, my! Oh Lordy!
(Oh well. At least he's being diplomatic... )
I voted for myself to be Head Honcho of your Nation. I didn't win but that is how it goes sometimes. I figured I couldn't screw things up any worse than anyone else, but you never know?
Just another day closer to my journey being completed through this world whatever it is?
Life is good. What an experience! It's always best to forgive.
Shadow Dancer, I'd vote for you.
May your journey in this world
always warm you, may the only tears you
know be of laughter, may stars, flowers
and streams be always at your beck
and call.
the truth always hurts eh?
"But he's made a decision with which I really can't contend that he doesn't want to resurrect the past, he doesn't want to punish those who are guilty of perpetrating of what I consider crimes against our own laws and against our own constitution."
___________________________
Carter's quoted remarks are not nearly as critical or confrontational as the headline implies.
Carter, an old-school Southern Gentleman, has had a much longer-- and arguably more successful-- career as an independent ambassador without portfolio: a diplomat. Thus, he habitually expresses himself in measured and restrained terms.
I haven't followed his post-presidential life closely, but I believe it's correct to say that his post-presidential career arose from the force of Carter's own individual will and character; despite occasional meetings with successive administrations, Carter has been generally treated as a liability, even a pariah, by his ambitious successors.
He's obviously a Democratic Odd Man Out when it comes to obsequious genuflection to Israel and AIPAC.
I don't recall any indication that the government in any way invited his active assistance in international relations, or particularly encouraged or supported his determination to work for international justice and peace.
It's a testimonial to his courage and resolve that Jimmy Carter has accomplished so much, and promoted the human rights and democratic values that our own government ought to be promoting-- but does not. Unless one counts grand and glorious speechifyin'.
Again, it's only my assumption-- but I think Carter recognized that as an ex-President, he could act independently to pursue his diplomatic and political work without asking permission, or inviting the kind of carping that occurs when a citizen like Jesse Jackson goes abroad on a private goodwill mission.
I applaud Scahill for circulating Carter's comments, and agree that beneath Carter's modest and deferential rhetoric there is a note of true disapproval.
But I doubt that the Pragmatrons in the Executive Branch credit Carter's views and opinion. They'll politely blow him off.
· Yr Obd't Servant
Bring America Back !!!!...........but you needed to at least mention that for his after-Presidency work==he has been awarded the Nobel Prize for Peace !! That ain't chopped liver now is it ???